Fox, Miles Traded To Oakland
by Treebs on Dec 3, 2009 5:11 PM CST
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Sorry there is no article link yet, but a breaking news headline on ESPN Chicago is that Jake Fox and Aaron Miles have been traded to the Oakland A's for three prospects. Like mentioned before there is no information about this trade. I don't why we would trade Fox for other prospects when we need bench help, but it is good to get Aaron Miles off of the team. Bye, Bye, Bye Aaron Miles!! One of the players is Jeff Gray, a right-handed middle reliever.
UPDATE from Al: Here's some more information on this deal from Chicago Breaking Sports.
UPDATE 2, from the official press release:
The Chicago Cubs today acquired right-handed pitchers Jeff Gray and Ronny Morla as well as infielder/outfielder Matt Spencer from the Oakland Athletics for infielders Aaron Miles and Jake Fox and a cash consideration. Gray has been added to Chicago’s 40-man roster.
UPDATE 3: Poll on this trade added to the right sidebar.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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this is a pointless trade, imo
we get a reliever which we don’t need in Gray and I haven’t heard of the two other prospects. It would have been wiser to hold on to Fox to at least use in a package for another trade.
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
I think the point of the trade is to dump Miles' salary.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 3, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
that's just stupid though
you don’t give up a good trading chip like Fox for a salary dump of Miles..
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
But that's how you get another team to take on Miles' salary.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 3, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
ya dont say
:-)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Fox was not a good chip
he was ok
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 3, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
Some people...
Need to stop making comments when they don’t know what they are talking about. Jake Fox was an excellent player and this trade was POINTLESS.
I can’t wait to see the next stupid move. Keep up the great work, Hendry!
I think
your username is appropriate.
An “excellent” player? Really?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 3, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
Ahhhhhh
I woke up today thinking my pregnant wife’s appetite was the craziest thing for me to see, and I thought, man, things have been awfully normal around here…Summer seems so long ago.
Thank you Jim Hendry for bringing out the crazies again. :)
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions
My God, Stone, this is ridiculous
After reading all these homilies to Jake F. Fox, I’m starting to think Cubs fans are the stupidest things on two legs.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 3, 2009 10:48 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, and I missed you.
Where you been Brucey?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
his mom wouldn't let him use the internet
until he cleaned his basement apartment
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
That's a garden apartment, I'll have you know
I’ve been around. Not as much as during the season, but there are basketball and hockey games to watch, you know. :)
How you be, Dan?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 4, 2009 1:15 AM CST up reply actions
If you're the indicator........
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:49 PM CST up reply actions
I think you should have to take a test before you are allowed on the internet.
Kind of like driving!
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 3, 2009 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
he was not even a good bench player
you have your panties in a bunch over a minimal role player
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Good VARSITY BLUES quote!!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Think of it this way...
By clearing Miles, we have room to add another player, so we’re really trading Fox for that player+3 prospects.
Wonder what the "cash considerations" were.
That means the Cubs probably paid some of Miles’ salary.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It said $1 million
in the ESPN link.
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Dec 3, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Vicente Padilla!
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
And they were?
We got a mediocre reliever, a Class A pitcher with a 1-7 record, and another A-AA hitter that no one knows. This is the best that we could get for Fox? If we got rid of him, I saw him going in a trade for someone like Granderson. But for this shipment of nothing?
I think that whenever someone wants to get rid of their garbage, or wants to fleece someone in a trade, they call the Cubs. This trade was beyond stupid. Are the Ricketts watching what a mess is being made of this team?
My next phone call is to cancel my Cubs Convention reservations. Why should we be excited about next year at all, when stupid moves like this kept being made?
What’s next, Aramis Ramirez for Gary Matthews, Jr.?
Overreacting much?
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
The convention will be less fun
without the grinch
by LT on Dec 3, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
can i buy the convention tics from you?
no, seriously can i
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I will gladly take those tickets off your hands
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
If you are willing to pay $400 plus tax for two nights at the Hilton
to get the tickets ( at the reduced price of $20 each for up to 4) than I advise you to keep calling the Hilton. Rooms often open up. As an alternative I would suggest buying two tickets on eBay or Craig’s list and staying somewhere cheaper and better than the Hilton. It will cost less.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 4, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
The Essex
Right across the street and significantly cheaper.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
Across the street ?
I think you mean down the street. Best deal is the Blackstone which also down ta block and $100 special
( go to travelzoo site). Much nicer than Hilton or Essex
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 4, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
It's across the street - the Hilton takes up the whole block.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry I thought you meant across the street as in the EAST SIDE of Michigan
I think of the block south of the Hilton as down the block rather than across the street but it is just a perspective thing. I still like the deal at the Blackstone but in any event cheaper to stay at either of those and get convention tickets elsewhere.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 4, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
You're right
It’s nice not to have to go outside in below zero weather, but it’s not that far.
Sometimes I think I should buy extra tickets and sell the Hilton reservations . . . but I don’t.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:30 PM CST up reply actions
I live in the suburbs
MORE than happy to drive downtown at 2 in the morning for some autographs :)
Just looking for 2 tickets at under $100 apiece
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Lots of tickets on eBay & Craig's list for under $100
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 4, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't see any under $100
:(
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
The 17th is my birthday
My 21st birthday. I’ll GLADLY buy anyone booze that day if it means you give me your spare ticket….
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Happy birthday, musicdude
I remember (portions of) drinking 21 shots on my 21st birthday. I would not be a responsible, middle-aged role model if I did not add that it was not without its down side. And I was safely tucked away in Champaign-Urbana, away from any wheeled transport.
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
Well I still have a month and a half
But thank you :)
I don’t think I’ll go THAT crazy, considering it’s a Sunday and what not, but the following weekend there will be some kind of party. Maybe 2.1 shots hahaha
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Go to eBay
completed listings show pairs selling for as little as $145 and usually around $175 with free shipping
Try this link
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?LH_Auction=1&trkparms=65%253A3%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1&nkw=cubs+convention&dmd=1&dmpt=US_Tickets_all_in_one&fsct=&in_kw=1&ipg=50&oexkw=&okw=cubs+convention&sop=1&trksid=p3286.c0.m14&udhi=&_udlo=
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 4, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for the link :)
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
No
the best we got for Fox was those guys and getting rid of $1.7 million of Miles’ salary.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
You're a foul one, Mr. Grinch.
You really hate Jake Fox!
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 4, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
The reason Jake Fox
is in the trade is to get rid of Aaron Miles salary, I would guess.
To get a team to take Miles and pay his salary, you’d have to give up something of value.
Hey, it's a new century!
Agreed 100%
Money is more important to us this year than an overrated prospect who, even if successful, would never have a place here.
Sure...
He sure didn’t fit in. All of our other players were doing such a great job without him. Oh, and it’s pointless to have a guy who can play LF, 3B, 1B, and catcher, who can also hit a ball across the street on any given day. He sure didn’t belong. Great point.
By play, you mean play? Cause I can play every position on the field.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Dec 3, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
you forgot to say
he had minimal range, and was not a good defender in any of the positions mentioned
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
As if GameBoard or Soriano
are great defenders? Please…
I'm going to Randy Hundley's fantast camp in 2010.
soriano and bradley actually have a major league resume
fox doesnt
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 4, 2009 5:32 PM CST up reply actions
and both have hit MLB pitching
for more than half a season
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I'm glad we agree.
I’m going to assume that was an earnest response, because if you’re actually indicating that Jake Fox was actually capable of playing any of those positions I’d have to laugh really hard. Or cry, I’d rather not find out.
for a very limited definition
of “play”, sure.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
Except they aren't paying it
We’re still paying the majority.
If we’re giving up Fox and Miles and paying some salary, I’d want one solid prospect instead of 3 bad ones.
by zam on Dec 3, 2009 8:42 PM CST up reply actions
The cubs are paying 1 million
1 million is less than 1.7 million
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions
Sad to see Jake Fox leave. Happy to see that runt leave.
Guess they cancel each other out. Carry on then.
Good deal
Jake had no future here, to think otherwise is just dumb. He will be a solid DH in the AL and I have no issue using him to get somebody to take on Aaron Miles.
Still Miles away from being Aaron free.
well he doesn't have a future, but whose are number one guy off the bench now?
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
preferably someone that can hit breaking balls
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
It's not like Lou...
Let Fox hit off the bench anyway. How many extra-inning games did we see this year, some that went into the 11th and beyond, without seeing Fox get a chance to swing the bat?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 3, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions
Lou's guy Micah Hoffpauir.
He’s a left-handed, older version of Fox. What more can you want?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Sorry, but
Remember that grand slam he hit? That was a breaking ball. He waited back, and smoked it into the seats. Seems that a lot of people on here have selective amnesia.
and Neifi once hit a HR too
your point?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Ironically, Hendry LOVED Neifi
which should really tell you something about the man
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
Indeed he did
and it put the Cubs in the Playoffs!
Eamus Ursuli!
Maybe, but I'm hoping he's starting more games than not
Between 2B and giving Aramis/Soriano/whoever is our LF a day off. Relegating Baker to a first PH type of role would be a shame unless he proves to be worse than he’s shown us so far.
Oh i totally agree
What I meant was that he would be our top bench player/super-sub who could play multiple positions and be a solid bat off the bench…At times. I would also like to see him start more often than not considering the Cubs other options at 2nd base.
I'll answer that
Our bench is a bunch of automatic outs who “play good defense”. If that won’t win a championship, nothing will.
and our bench
was therefore immediately and immesurably better with Jake Fox – decent stick for 100 games and shaky defense?
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Well I guess Oakland is where all Cubs go to die
Gallagher, Murton, Patterson, now Miles and Fox
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
oh, time to change my signature as well
1 Aaron down, 1 to go
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
lol
Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 3, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
high on sarcasm
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
and it frees up spots for both
an defensively challenged outfielder (Pat Burrell) and a 2B (Luis Castillo)
Getting rid of Aaron (the second one) is worth losing Jake Fox? I dunno...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
I don't get the handwringing over losing Fox
He never would have been anything here more than what he did last season. He can’t field, he needed to be in the AL.
Officially Aaron Free since 12/3/2009. Good work Hendry.
yes, but he could have been packaged to get someone like, say, Granderson
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
my guess
… is that the Cubs wouldn’t have made this trade if they thought Jake could have helped them get Granderson.
Don't think so
I don’t think Jake Fox has much trade value. Most teams have a slugging DH somewhere in their system.
DH market is chock full this offseason
And the Tigers have far too many guys who can hit but can’t play the field. Doubt they would have wanted him
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
you're assuming Hendry is a good enough GM to think more than one step ahead
He’s demonstrated he’s really not. He asked the A’s what it would take for them to take Miles, they mentioned Fox, and Hendry almost assuredly jumped on it.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
amongst other moves
Lofton, Rami, Simon, Karros, etc.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Lofton, Rami, and Simon were all basically one move
and was taking players off a team clearly dumping salary .
Hendry has made a FEW good moves. I liked the Harden trade, but he’s made MORE bad ones.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
Every GM makes more bad moves than good moves – ust like every human makes more bad decisions than good ones – just noone has giant message boards to rip you on them
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Not to be argumentative
But wouldn’t that require a net talent loss in MLB?
Eamus Ursuli!
Jake Fox won't be the difference between us getting Granderson or not
IF that was going to be the case, we won’t have Granderson anyway
Officially Aaron Free since 12/3/2009. Good work Hendry.
that makes no sense
If trading Fox had gotten us Granderson, we wouldn’t have gotten Granderson?
What?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Tigers are flush with DH candidates
Maybe some of the acquired pitchers would be interesting to Detroit (or Toronto?).
eh I'd say we shouldn't even bother thinking up trade potentials for Halladay
we don’t need him for how much we’d have to give up
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
And we can't afford him past this year
Can we even afford him this year?
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
you do realize
the Cubs play in the NL? No need for DH? I believe that is why we got rid of Fox, because he is a DH?
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
WHAT?!
This is news to me….
I bet we could have traded him straight up for Roy Halladay. We got ripped off.
Ok maybe Aaron Miles would have sealed the deal
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Lol
Sorry if that sounded like disrespect to you, it wasn’t meant to be
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Sounds like you're talking about Soriano.
At least Fox can play more than one position, and you could see the effort every day. Who needs guys like that?
Iowa
Fox is a AAAA player. You are acting as if we traded Babe Ruth in his prime
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Fox can sorta kinda play 3rd base...
he’s a horrible outfielder.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
again I say...
and Gameboard and Soriano are any good in the oufield?
I'm going to Randy Hundley's fantast camp in 2010.
I don't understand what argument you are advancing here
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
both of them
are significantly better than Fox. This isn’t a good argument to make.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 8:42 PM CST up reply actions
Are you kidding?????
Soriano is significantly better??….Maybe his throwing arm. That’s it. He is a brutal LF and is very scared of the wall.
Bradley-we know how you feel about him……
Both should be taken out of games for defense.
Maybe Bradley can throw you a ball in the stands on the second out of an inning….
Like Fox, they are both DH’s. Unlike Fox, they are both lazy on defense. He might not be the best OF, but he appeared to be trying all the time.
They are also lazy while hitting, see how they just bust it out of the box everytime.
sorry
but you’re wrong. Bradley did nothing but work hard. He wasn’t always successful, and he made mistakes. So does everyone.
Neither Soriano nor Bradley are DHs.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
WOW- I wish we could put this up to a vote.
Drew here thinks Sori and Bradley are such good fielders that they should not be considered as possible DH’s.
What do the rest of you think?
He didn't say they "should not be considered as possible DH's"
he said they are not DHs (no apostrophe, btw). There difference is that while either could be DH, neither has to be (ie they are good enough to play in the field as well).
it can be
make your own post with a Poll
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Whoo for trying hard
They both had the same result: bad defense
Soriano is a proven hitter. Fox is not
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Soriano can play 2nd
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Zambrano can play any position
Hoffpauir can also play LF
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
More correctly....
… you can station Hoffpauir in LF with a glove on his hand. That doesn’t mean he can “play” left field.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Kind of like Marshall can play LF
Just going with the trend, I wasn’t being serious lol
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Marshall got snubbed in the gold glove voting
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 4, 2009 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
+1
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
It's not what you know
man
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
not the size
but the wiggle in the jiggle
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
bada boom, big bada boom
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
there seems to be 5 elements in this pic
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I'll reserve judgment ...
until I read more about the minor leaguers we’re getting. But this is clearly a salary dump/trading a guy who really had no position with the Cubs.
Good luck to Jake!
I'll save you some time
We got three nobodies. Only one of them was added to the 40 man roster. That means that they don’t care about the other ones enough to protect them from the Rule V Draft. And the one who was added is someone that nobody knows. Dumb, dumb, dumb…
uh...
insightful
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
You know why we traded Jake Fox?
Because Pat Burrell is the new Jake Fox. And by “new” I mean “old.”
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by daver on Dec 3, 2009 5:30 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, except
Burrell can’t play 3B or Catcher, and Fox is a better hitter. Oh yeah, and Fox makes about 8.5 million less. Sounds like a good trade-off to me.
In Jim Hendry land, that's called hitting the lottery.
Fire this effing chump already!
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
now he cam
send MB to Oak for Fox,
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
LOL, Fox is a better hitter.
That’s kinda hard to say given the differences in their respective ages and major league experience, no? Call me when Jakey ever hits 30 or more home runs in a season. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. But I’m guessing you can’t argue that he’s a “better hitter” than Pat Burrell by any rational measure.
And, once again, the point of acquiring Pat Burrell has little to do with Burrell himself. It’s more about losing Milton Bradley with at least some modicum of financial relief.
In any case, thank you for your performance on this thread. Irrational rants on behalf of a favorite player are always entertaining.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by daver on Dec 4, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
+1 and Rec'd
For your patience and equanimity. Think of this as a Three Stooges marathon, and half of the battle is won.
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
Other players we are getting from Oakland: RHP Ronny Morla and INF/OF Matt Spencer.
Anyone find anything on them?
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Some chump on MLB trade rumours wrote this:
The two prospects are Michael Inoa and Aaron Cunningham according to Jim Hendry’s twitter account.
Posted by: Bravesfan4life88 | December 03, 2009 at 05:26 PM
Guess he’s taking the piss?
Oh no, not another Aaron...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
THe bloke doesn't know what he's talking about:
5:35pm: The other two players in the deal are Ronny Morla and Matt Spencer, tweets Brent S. Gambill of Sirius XM. The Cubs will also give the Athletics cash considerations as part of the deal.
From MLB Trade Rumours
"Jim Hendry's Twitter Account"
That would be awesome.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Start it up!
If Jim won’t give us dinner updates, somebody has to pretend!
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Yes yes yes yes 1000 times yes.
You, sir, are my hero for the day.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
(Link)
http://twitter.com/FakeJimHendry
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Must not be following you!
What is your twitter handle?
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Sweet! We've got "bloke" and "tosser" in the same thread
can “wanker” be far behind?
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Pommy Bastard?
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
We must be barmy...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
But poms do
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
I know.
Every four years the chant it over and over at our cricket grounds:
“Barmy Army, Barmy Army, Barmy Army!”
Yep, they sure are a Barmy Army
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
SWEEEEET
CAROLINE! BAH BAH BAH!
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
I am plucking my eyes out right now
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
Why can't this one show up as a red X?
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 4, 2009 7:51 PM CST up reply actions
Morlas stats are here
http://thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Ronny-Morla.shtml
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
I hope he's got a hellacious breaking ball or splitter
‘cuz damn, that’s a bunch of wild pitches! Oh well. He’s young, anyway.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Yeah
One was 1-7 last year in A-ball, and the other one hit 19 HR in A and AA ball combined. Print your World Series tickets now.
Jim Hendry strikes again
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
he's digging himself out of last year's hole
It’s not pretty, but there it is.
thats one way to put it
or digging it deeper
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Cubs after Padilla ...
says mlbtraderumors, http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/cubs-and-cardinals-lead-chase-for-vicente-padilla.html.
Um, no thanks.
so sign Padilla, but not Harden?
goody…I feel like the 2008-2009 offseason is happening again
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
how much would you think
I’d rather give Marshall a shot at making the rotation. He’s proven he can start and we don’t need to waste the money on Padilla. Switching Harden with Padilla is doing essentially the same thing as swapping DeRosa for Miles and Pie for Gathright last year, and we saw what good that did for us
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Oh, I'm not saying I think Padilla is a good idea
But I bet Harden will cost twice as much, maybe more.
And I’d go with Gorzo over all of the guys you mentioned.
whoops, nevermind then
well let them compete in Spring Training for it, I don’t care. As long as we don’t sign a veteran starter such as Padilla. We have enough veterans in the rotation anyway
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Its like having 2 Zambranos!
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
What's next?
A three year deal for aging Padilla at $10 million a year? That would make sense after denying arbitration to Johnson and Harden citing payroll issues.
Enough this is Jake Fox
not Harmon Killebrew. Miles is off the team. Fox had no position who was going to get about 190 AB’s. Losing Jake Fox will not cost the Cubs the division.
by Grockcubs on Dec 3, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Stunning Logic at Work!
Well done.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
He started a lot more than he would have this year
Last year they were trying to see what he could do and Ramirez was hurt. Remember how awful the offense at the beginning of the year was?
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Oh Hendry, will you ever show any competency?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Great Trade
Nicely Done Jim!!
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
I'm OK with this.
Jake’s a fun guy to root for, but he’s better off in the AL. And I’m guessing Aaron Miles wants to put his awful, awful season as a Cub in the past just as much as we want to. I’ll be interested to hear the word on these prospects.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I think we need to all thank DGU ...
His post, http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/12/3/1183636/something-aaron-miles-was-the-best, about Miles’ baserunning prowess clearly caught the attention of baseball genius Billy Beane.
by elgato on Dec 3, 2009 5:37 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yes
You’re all welcome. I do my part for the Cubs. LOL
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 3, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Should I make one titled, "Alfonso Soriano: The Best Left Fielder in Baseball"?
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
by Cub Style on Dec 3, 2009 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Nice
The key, I think, is not to oversell. I suggest “Alfonso Soriano: Comeback Candidate of the Year?”
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 3, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
Don't forget the "Milton Bradley: Nicest and healthiest man in the world? We think so"
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
And please also do "Derrick Lee, a worse mistake was never made"
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
And he loves his mama
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Drew already did that one I think
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Moved to the front page.
Thanks for posting this.
Good move by Hendry — doesn’t matter who the Cubs got, what matters is that they got rid of $2.7 million of payroll.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not if they are giving away cash considerations
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 3, 2009 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
So we can get half of John Grabow?
What’s the point of saving nearly 2 million if it’s Jim “I love adding a third year for no apparent reason” Hendry doing the spending?
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 3, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
So more bitching for the sake of bitching
Good job by Hendry here, like Al said. Fox was a man without a country in Chicago, and now Miles is gone, too. Fox should be in the AL, anyway.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 3, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
So you save a million-seven
Wonderful. Hendry’s the reason the Cubs had to dump Miles in the first place.
The depressing thing is, this might be the best move Hendry’s made all year.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 3, 2009 6:03 PM CST up reply actions
1.7mil saved >>>> 2,7 mill wasted
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
And who wasted the 2.7 in the first place?
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 3, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions
Goodness' Sakes
will you be happy if someone gets on here and shares your hatred for Jim Hendry?
Miles is a good guy and Hendry decided to give him the reward contract he’s given to Blanco and Neifi in the past. I can at least appreciate a GM who has lots of money to spend using a fraction of it to support reward good ball players who can be good influences on the rest of the team.
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 3, 2009 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
This isn't a charity
If you want to give money to “good guys,” donate to Purple Heart.
The Cubs are one of the few teams that can spend real money, yet they squandered that advantage.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 3, 2009 6:11 PM CST up reply actions
Winner of
the No Perspective Award!!
Come on, “Ding dong the Miles is gone!” Singalong!
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 3, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions
What?
Hey, I’m thrilled Miles is gone, but don’t forget why he was here in the first place.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 3, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions
Dude, we got it.
Hendry made a bad signing. Now he has remedied it. Would you have preferred to keep Miles?
Absolutley not
Miles was a trainwreck. Hopefully the prospects we got back from Oakland pan out.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 3, 2009 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
Even if they dont pan out
who cares?
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 6:28 PM CST up reply actions
I might not share Curtain Jerker's dislike for Hendry
But if that $2.7m had been used on someone who could backup 3B when Aramis went down, and with Blanco on the roster all year as a solid defensive backup, it could have made a difference for this squad.
A bad signing? as in 1?
I don’t think you do get it
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
agreed
Fox was a middling chip meant for AL teams, a throw-in on big trades. Worth it to get rid of Miles salary.
If you want to criticize Hendry for the asinine signing in the first place fine, but this move given what we had to work with is a good one
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 3, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow, book the cruise now.
What is Hendry going to spend it on. More bad players? This trade sucked and everyone knows it.
Clearly, "everyone" does not.
Not every trade is going to land babe ruth.
This obviously doesn’t end the off-season moves. This doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface.
But it is a good first step.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 4, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Don't cry for Jake
He’ll get an opportunity to DH, and he wasn’t going to get consistent at bats with the Cubs. I’m sure the A’s will give him some work at 1B, too.
As much as I like Jake, if he had to go to get Aaron Miles off the team, then I can live with it.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Good Job Jim! Sell on Fox while he still has value.
Him not playing here will only hurt his trade value.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Yeah, and we sure got a lot of value in return, didn't we?
Some people need to wise up on here. Fourth place here we come!
Seriously.
Who do you think Billy Beane acquired? Aaron Miles and his contract?
Just alter your perspective a little and see that Hendry did get value for Fox. Billy Beane acquired multi-positional player Jake Fox and $1M in exchange for having to take Aaron Miles and $1.7M of his contract for two randoms and a real pitching prospect.
I’m pretty certain most minor league systems could cough up a random prospect out of single A or AA who could duplicate the offensive prowess of AM in 2009. The value of Jake Fox enabled Hendry to get something of value in return and offload decent money.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
by N Oakley on Dec 4, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 9 recs
I always thought
the Grinch was green, not Blou…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I reckon the focus really needs to go off Fox and Miles
And on to what kind of prospects these guys are and how much the Cubs are saving.
Bill James projects Gray for a 3.7 FIP in 50 innings
Wrigley will increase that but still he looks solid.
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 3, 2009 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
I've seen this stat quite a bit lately. Can you give me a two sentence def. on "FIP"?
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
From Hardball Times
“Fielding Independent Pitching, a measure of all those things for which a pitcher is specifically responsible. The formula is (HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)3-K2)/IP, plus a league-specific factor (usually around 3.2) to round out the number to an equivalent ERA number. FIP helps you understand how well a pitcher pitched, regardless of how well his fielders fielded.”
I approve of this conversation.
Simply enough, I would add:
FIP attempts to measure the performance of the pitcher based solely on the actions in the game he can control – walks, hit by pitches, strikeouts, homers.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Seems like a glorified WHIP
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
A pitcher can't control hits.
He can, obviously, to an extent. But he cannot control where a defensive player stands/plays.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
It seems like there's a lot of room for debate
Does a pitcher control hits or does a batter….
I’d argue Marmol does because of his control
I’d argue Pujols does because he’s a machine
I wonder if there’s a way to calculate hit types and how that effects a pitcher…had a player been standing in one position vs another….idk waaaay too much to calculate
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Actually...
There was more room for debate a few years ago. These days we’re pretty sure of the following:
1. Most pitchers don’t have very much control over how many batted balls against them go for hits (that is, BABIP, Batting Average on Balls In Play, which does not count strikeouts, walks, or home runs). There seem to be large variations surrounding this pitcher-to-pitcher, year-to-year, but pitchers tend to hover around league-average. Batters have significantly more control over this.
2. Some pitchers (mostly relievers with really nasty stuff, LOOGYs, extreme FB/GB guys, and guys with lots of weird secondary stuff) seem to maintain a BABIP outside of the norm (basically the same types of pitchers that have ERA different than FIP, because one of the assumptions of FIP is that BABIP is pretty much constant between pitchers), but not all that far outside it.
3. Pitchers and hitters both have significant control over their strikeout and walk rates; these days, IIRC, pitchers tend to have more control over strikeout rates and hitters more control over walk rates (Marmol may be something of an exception). Pitchers have some control over HR rates as well — usually simply because some give up more fly balls than others.
WHIP includes BABIP’s non-HR hits and non-K outs. But it also includes HR and BB in the numerator and K in the denominator. So it is made up of some things that pitchers have lots of control over and some things that they (mostly) don’t. WHIP is not really doing the same job as FIP — it’s essentially OBP, except expressed per-out instead of per-PA (the distinction is important; it’s often more useful to provide per-out rates for pitchers and per-PA rates for batters).
In your last paragraph if you’re talking about tracking the trajectory, speed, and spin of batted balls there are people working on that. There are also people working on tracking the locations of fielders. These things are basically analogous to PitchFX. It will take some time before the equipment is universal among major-league stadiums. And a few seasons after that’s finished the sabermagicians will unveil their Grand Unified Theory of Baseball, and, well, you know how people say, “That’s why they play the games”? Uh-huh. No more.
by aldimond on Dec 4, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd as well
Very informative, thanks :)
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Basically what madcow said
It’s just a much better stat than ERA, because it tries to not take into account things like how good the defense is behind him which would help/hurt his ERA (what the pitcher cannot control).
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 3, 2009 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
I like what I've seen of FIP so far
Though, one thought I’ve had is that it would seem to overrate the big inning type pitchers, and underrate guys who do a better job of spreading out their baserunners.
Pitching stats are tricky.
Some pitchers repeatably have ERAs different from their FIPs (as I understand it the prime candidates are: extreme FB or GB pitchers; relievers that pitch overwhelmingly with the platoon advantage; guys with a really deep arsenal of unusual secondary pitches — if any of this is wrong, I’m not a real sabermagician, just a fan). But as far as I’ve read there isn’t much of a repeatable skill to stranding or “spreading out” baserunners — at least after the FIP skills (K, BB, HR) are accounted for.
I believe the studies show that FIP predicts future ERA better than ERA does in general. Although some pitchers maintain a significant distance between the two numbers, a FIP that’s very different from ERA can cast doubts on the ERA’s meaning.
That's true
but because it includes BB, hits, hr’s, those are usually the big inning things so it is somewhat taken into account. It really can over rate a guy like Andy Sonannstine who doesn’t K a ton of guys but usually doesn’t walk more than 2 per 9.
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 3, 2009 7:49 PM CST up reply actions
I realize all of the individual components (hits, BBs, etc) of the big inning are counted
But two pitchers can pitch 7 innings. 1 has a baserunner an inning and only gives up 2 runs. The other puts all 7 of his baserunners on in the 7th and gives up 5. FIP might say they’re the same. Generally speaking, I’m guessing this type of situation is the exception rather than the rule. But guys like Marshall, Wood, etc who always seem to have a big inning issue do exist.
For what it’s worth, I still prefer FIP to ERA. I do think we may see more advanced stats in the future that try to take into account more complicated factors though.
It sure does seem like that happens.
I haven’t seen any hard evidence that some pitchers just “give up hits/runs in bunches” and others “spread out baserunners”.
One thing that’s appealing about FIP is its simplicity — it’s a straightforward formula involving just three components. Everyone knows what it accounts for and what it doesn’t. Trying to figure out statistically whether a pitcher is “bunchy” or “spready” and then accounting for that would make it incredibly complicated.
There are more advanced stats that take other things into account. One is tRA. It’s normalized to the scale of RA rather than ERA, and in addition to K/BB/HR takes batted-ball types into account. I wouldn’t bet on a “bunchy vs. spready” stat coming any time soon, but if you want to try to prove that such a distinction exists, can be measured, and that incorporating it into a rate stat makes it more predictive of future success than current metrics… good luck!
I'm sure Shangai Badger has a different definition of "FIP."
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Hmm...if you meant what I think you meant
That would be a “B”, not a “P”. But I don’t actually use that, anyway. I have family there!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
That would be much more polite than the term that I've always heard.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
Indubitably
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
1 down, 1 to go
Let’s hope the door stays open a little longer so Bradley can be gone soon too.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
A's fan thoughts
Spencer- Came over as throw in blanton deal, Huge guy, huge power, huge OF arm. Doesnt walk much and defense is an issue. He is rue 5 eligible after 2010, A’s had about 10 players to be added from 07 draft, nightmare, but good problem to have.
Moria- high upsidelower minor arms, theyve been patient with. Led SS northwest leaguein K’s recently
Gray- one of those backend 40 man roster relievers on the AAA/mlb shuttle. MILN trackrecord doesnt give up HR’s. lowered arm angle in 09 throwing 96mph
by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 3, 2009 5:54 PM CST reply actions 9 recs
Thanks.
Always good to get an opinion from one of the other team’s fans.
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Dec 3, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions
Some Questions on Gray
1. Given he throws 96 mph, why are his strikeout rates underwhelming? Is it a flat fastball? His walk rates are very good, so it can’t be poor control. Also, does he sit at 96 or is that his peak?
2. What are his breaking pitches like? Does he throw a change? Thanks.
Spencer's errors
I noticed that looking at Spencer’s minor-league stats. 6 errors in 82 OF games in 2009. Ouch. I know fielding percentage doesn’t mean all that much by itself, but his is sub-Soriano level.
Thanks for the info!
Recommended because I want to recommend this.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Great trade.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Dec 3, 2009 6:02 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'm okay with it, not too hyped,
but so far this offseason, I haven’t wanted to throw up when I read the details of every trade, so I guess that’s progress.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
Miles salary? Gone. Miles? Gone. Fox, (a man without a country so to speak). Gone. I like it.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Dec 3, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions
This sounds like a precursor to something larger...
wouldn’t be surprised to see Bradley gone within 24 hours.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
All i want for christmas...
… is a Bradley trade that doesn’t make my heart sad and my brain mad.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 3, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Food will taste better...
the air will be much fresher.
Now that Miles is out. I didn’t think it’d ever happen.
Sounds good to me.
We got rid of Miles-woo hoo-and it’s not like Fox was going to get much playing time from Lou’s doghouse anyway.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
Lou's doghouse is
the A’s hidden farm team.
Except that you guys didn’t get Eyre, Ohman, DeRosa, Pie… oh I can’t keep track.
But can I interest you in this powerful, switch-hitting player in the doghouse who will bring a lot of fire to your team?
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 3, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions
But can I interest you in this powerful, switch-hitting player in the doghouse who will bring a lot of fire to your team?
He likes kittens and long walks down the beach as well!
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 6:22 PM CST up reply actions
[needs citation]
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
suspected reasons for Fox being in Lou's doghouse?
Did not wash Lou’s car adequately
Hit on Lou’s granddaughter
Showing up Over-paid injured Soriano in limited time
Dared to play any position thrown at him
Power? We don’t need no stinkin’ power
Showed hustle in the field
I'm going to Randy Hundley's fantast camp in 2010.
Jake has the bat to be a starter
The problem is that you’ve got Aramis Ramirez and Derek Lee anchoring first and third. Jake was likely in Lou’s doghouse, but it was a good move for all party’s concerned right now.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
The Cubs could never establish a position for Fox
especially after his argument with Servais led to the “he can’t play defense behind the plate” mantra. He was a guy who had to beg to try to play third after all, when Ramirez went down last year.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
A personal difference with one guy shouldn't be an excuse for our team mis-using talent
I’m reminded of Doug Glanville’s article – http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/opinion/12glanville-mentors.html
There were more than enough ABs to go around last season between 3B (when Aramis was down), spelling DLee at 1B (especially when he had his neck issues), and LF (when Soriano was down) that its a poor excuse to say he didn’t have a place on the team. 50 starts and 400 PAs would have been easy.
I agree
And I don’t think all of the reason for Fox languishing in Triple-A had to do with an argument he had in 2004 (or there about) with a coach.
While Fox was a “bull in a china shop” defender, he got the job done for the most part. He should have been playing at third base in Triple-A the minute Ramirez hurt his shoulder; it’s the Cubs’ fault for failing to explore it until Fox asked.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
He was still sitting on the bench when Lou was busy starting Scales in LF
And that was a position where Fox’s defense would be exposed less than 3B. Scales, with a much weaker bat, had no OF experience before then. This points to something that Lou had against the guy, that even he seemed to be oblivious to.
Lou is incompetent, Hendry is incompetent, and they're both coming back
doesn’t bode well. Hendry is going to have to have a good offseason to make me remotely hopeful for the upcoming season, and picking up three minor leaguers who will be lucky to sniff the majors, and giving up Fox so we could dump Miles is not a good start
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
seriously?
These two are incompentant after 3 winning seasons in a row that saw 2 playoff appearances?
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
For $140m, a winning season should be a foregone conclusion
Winning the division twice was nice though.
Oh, come on.
NO amount of money makes a winning season a foregone conclusion. It’s why they actually play the game.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Okay, you're right
But a team that doesn’t have a winning season with that much of a financial advantage over its opponent is doing a very poor job. It shouldn’t be a badge of honor for Hendry to have a winning record.
To take the Cubs
to the post season twice in three years is a fine record. In fact, he’s taken the Cubs to the post season more times than that.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Miles sucks, I wouldnt pay him the league minimum
too bad cubs couldnt throw in darwin barney
Hey - while you're here
are either of Ryan Sweeney or Rajai Davis available?
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 3, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions
So where do Aaron's 27 hits
rank him on the Cubs all-time hit list? The cost per hit was about $1,000,000 right?
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
More like $100,000 per, if I'm doing my math correctly...
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Still.
If I got $100K for churning out a very basic and menial [aspect of my job] I’d be incredibly happy and wealthy.
A-Rod made about $250k per hit in '09.
Of course, an average A-Rod hit probably went easily 2.5 times as far as an average Miles hit… for whatever that’s worth…
Wow thats a lot of infield singles for arod
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
opp, that what I meant, still not a good return on the money
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Worst investment ever
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
HEY! Who had "Aaron Miles is traded to Oakland" in ballhawk's contest?
Anyone? Beuller? … Beuller?
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
what are the cubs going to do as a first base back up?
Hoffpauir obviously will be in the running but he hasn’t proven he is excellent at the big league level and he is 29. Baker could potentially be a back up 1st baseman when needed but the cubs are going to have to do something with the middle infield. Will blanco play and back up at short and second or do they think starlin castro is already ready? I would like to see them sign a utility player who can play all four infield positions who can actually hit.
they do need to find an alternative short stop though
blanco? castro? who knows
Im guessing blanco
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
I like Blanco.
He doesn’t hit much, but he’s tremendous defensively — that’s what a backup middle infielder should be.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Every team in the league wants a guy like that
DERROOOOOOOO
Seriously though, they’re hard to find. Baker is a pretty solid option
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
decent trade
Gray’s a usable pen arm (in all likelihood, not a late inning type, though) who throws strikes, Matt Spencer doesn’t strike me as anything more than a Quad-A type, but there is some pop there (I could see Spencer perhaps turn out somewhat similar to Fox offensively if things go well).
Fairly pleased with Morla, though. He’s the upside arm in this trade, and he’s a very intriguing one. Low 90’s, good change IIRC. Big, lanky righty who probably has, if not a little more growth potential, at least some more physical maturation.
Fox didn’t really have a role here. I’m not real sure of his role in Oakland, though, but I gotta think the 1.7 million was a bigger deal here. We need to save wherever we can to make our move for our CF, whoever that might be, and 1.7 million is something. Add in that there looks to be a decent chance that Pat Burrell may be coming to town, and we may have our righty bench bat. We also have Baker to back up at 3rd, so overall, I’m fine with the deal.
by toonsterwu on Dec 3, 2009 7:05 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd.
I’m not all that excited about Spencer, but I think (hope) the two pitchers could provide some nice bullpen depth.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
While I like Jake Fox...
this seems fine to me. I always felt the hatred of Miles was unfortunate and over-the-top (he wasn’t trying to suck so no need to crucify him), but as a player he was an expensive waste of space.
BUT, I frankly don’t have time to think much about this trade right now. I’m too focused and pumped for what will be an epic Civil War tonight with my beloved Oregon State Beavers showing those winged rodents what a real football team looks like.
Go Beavs! Bring on the Roses!
I good trade
To get rid of Aaron Miles (yet ANOTHER bad, bad Jim Hendry contract) you had to include Jake Fox, a DH-type with not much of a role to play on the Cubs.
I like it. This offseason is more about unwinding Hendry’s messes than anything else.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
but Hendry is the one doing it!
Why is he being allowed to unwind his own mess? I mean, we just had to get rid of a serviceable bench player, so we could get rid of a guy who never should have been on the roster in the first place.
God I despise Jim Hendry. What an incompetent, incompetent rube
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Agree completely
The Rickett’s made a strategic mistake in letting Jim Hendry continue in his role. I for one am deeply disappointed that they were not ready from Day One to begin a desperately needed transformation of how the Cubs run the baseball operation. Even if you didn’t have a successor in place, you could have canned Hendry and appointed an interim GM. This is also where Bud Selig would have faciliated finding interim solutions to the Cubs as they worked on the ownership transition.
It is getting to the point where the Cubs are really pissing me off. $145 million payroll and very little hope, in my opinion, of being playoff legitimate in 2010. That is pathetic.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Wait - you think Hendry sucks but you would have been ok with Selig "facilitating" moves for Cubs mgmt???
Oh BLou, you’ve really outdone yourself with this one. Bravo! Bravo!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Well I'll keep an eye out for Fox next year
If you look at his minor-league numbers there’s a bit of a pattern where he struggles offensively in his first partial season at a new level, especially at getting on base, then rakes the next year. And he certainly struggled with strikeouts and OBP as the season wore on in the majors. It will be interesting to see if he can do the same with the As next year.
Jake Fox is probably a poor man's Jack Cust
I think he can be serviceable enough for a budget-conscious American League team. Fox should be able to help the A’s.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Oh god, it's going to be another offseason like this
where every move Hendry pulls off makes me wish he had been fired long ago.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
I guess this is why they have fantasy leagues
So I can still own Jake even if Hendry doesn’t want him
Why are people acting like fox is pujols reborn?
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
I dunno
people get attached to players for unknown reasons… Like Murton, Half-Power, Fox etc…
by LT on Dec 3, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
I was sad
when Murton left – probably because I feel some pity for all red-heads
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Ding, ding, ding
Jake Fox had minimal role to play on the Cubs. To get rid of Miles I have little problem in letting Fox go.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Same here
Fox really had no spot on the Cubs line-up and his only value really was to a AL team. Now to trade another AL player the Cubs will be doing great.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
This is one of those trades that helps both teams.
The A’s are a better team because of it.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
and we aren't. Kind of disproves your comment
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Im a fan of waiting to see how things pan out
before saying a trade sucks and has no benefits
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a fan of recognizing when we made a bad trade, when it's obvious
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
WE GOT RID OF A GUY WHO HIT .185
granted that was .100 below his career norm so it could be an off year but we are better, and I like Aaron Miles
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
nope, I was glad to see Murton go
Fox had some value as a bench player.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
from the guy who thinks the group of mediocre minor leaguers we've gotten in return
from the A’s have ALL helped the club.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
I don't think he's Pujols reborn
I do think he’s worth more than a bag of balls
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
I wasnt referring to you
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 8:54 PM CST up reply actions
What makes you think we got a bag of balls?
Most of what I’ve read says we got a decent bullpen arm and a high upside low level arm. I think you’re really piling on the hyperbole unnecessarily here.
Scrappy white guys
are what a lot of Cubs fans live for, jc.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 3, 2009 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
i wish i understood why
if you remember, last season the same type of hype happened when Blanco was not resigned
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
If this much wailing happens with guys like Fox and Blanco
Imagine what would happen if the Cubs traded/released someone who was, I don’t know, legitimately good.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 3, 2009 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
You mean like Milton Bradley?
j/k
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 4, 2009 7:28 AM CST up reply actions
Buh dum buh!
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
Jake Fox - Not Good
Let’s stop pretending that Jake Fox was a solution to anything. He was a stopgap that would have gotten in the way of a real backup for Aramis Ramirez. I’m amazed no one has thrown out his splits.
Pre All-Star: 80 AB .313/.356/.550
Post All-Star: 136 AB .228/.285/.419
The league figured him out. He is going to be 28 this season. His defense is sub-par at 3B and he is not worthy of a corner OF position on offense or defense.
He is a nice guy who filled in when Ramirez went down. Thank you Jake, maybe you will figure it out in Oakland.
nobody is pretending he was a solution to anything
but he was worth more than the bait to get someone to take Miles
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
it has been said he is a solution to a weak bench
and he can play all over, etc. you may wish to read the posts above again
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
hell
he wrote them all.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
This is the most entertaining thread in awhile!
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
I cannot believe someone took Aaron Miles off our hands.
I’m simply stunned.
I owe someone (Damon I think) an apology, which I’m more than happy to give.
So Hendry has gotten rid of the two Aaron’s he acquired last year. I give him credit for admitting his mistakes and correcting them, but I wish they didn’t need correcting in the first place!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
2 Down 1 more to go.
1 more piece to fix from last years signings and most of the errors will have been corrected from last seasons off-season.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
and the gaping holes on the roster won't be filled at all
Yep, we have a GM who has no business being employed
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
So he will just play without bench players and a RF?
That will make it pretty easy for other teams to win with nobody in RF or relief off the bench?
Will the roster only have 8 players on it?
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
It's Hendry
so I wouldn’t put it past him. Hey, Gathright and Freel are available, so maybe he’ll give them another shot.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Just opens the roster for
MORE BULLPEN ARMS!!!! YAAAAAAAYYYY!
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Funny thought...
Are the Cubs the 4A team for the A’s? What this is like our third trade with them in the last 2 years? LOL
Fox get to play everyday as a DH, which is good. Miles went away, which is better. And the Cubs cleared some salary and got a couple prospects, which is even better.
All around a good day for us.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
In recent yrs
Kendall for blevins
harde/gaudin for patterson/gallagher/murton/donaldson
robnett/sellers for wuertz
spencer/morla/gray for fox/miles
This is I still like Jim Hendry.
All of these trades helped the Cubs, including this one (in my opinion).
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
how in the name of god can you say ALL those trades have helped the cubs
the only one that has actually had any impact has been the one that brought Hardin here.
And we could have used Wuertz last year
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
First of all, it's HardEn.
Second of all Wuertz was a nice pitcher, but nothing that makes a major impact over the long term.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
"nothing that makes a major impact over the long term."
you just described every player Hendry acquired in those trades, so I’ll ask again, how did every one of those trades help the Cubs?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Kendall was helpful.
Harden was worth the guys he gave up.
Dumping Miles automatically makes us better.
The Wuertz one is harder to defend. So I give you that.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Harden for all his talent
Was a 5 inning pitcher, who put pressure on the bullpen. I’d call that trade a wash since it was a short term trade anyways. We still dont know how donaldson will turn out
Wow I seriously disagree with that.
He was a critical part to the 08 clinch. That alone makes the trade worth it.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I wonder
what percentage of trades could be considered long-term if the player received has to play for more than 2 years?
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
he led the AL in K's, 2nd most in mlb
Probably the most non valued closer in mlb production wise in 09. People need to get over this notion that if a player is in lou’s doghouse, that they suck or have no future. Cubs got 2 players who they neded up letting go not much after the trade.
That's a fair point.
My point is still that Hendry does more good than bad.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Why does this man still have a job?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
There's a couple of guys on staff with the Cubs right now that shouldn't be
it’s why I wasn’t nearly as excited as some on here when Ricketts paid lip service to wanting to win.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Because keeping your job has more to do...
…than one shitty offseason.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
he's had more than one
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
HOW???
HE HAS HAD 3 WINNING SEASONS IN A ROW!!! 2 TIMES TO THE PLAYOFFS IN THE LAST 3 YEARS – how often in the Cubs history has that happened – its not like we are the Yankees and need to be in the World Series or the season feels lost
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
The fact that we're the Cubs shouldn't lower our expectations so low
that we should be impressed by a $140m roster having a winning record. This is like being impressed by a poker playing winning when he has pocket aces- he should win much more often than not.
I am guessing this is good for Fuld & Blanco.
Fox was for some reason in Lou’s doghouse and Miles should have been. I really wish the two of them the best of luck , they were good guys.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
Fox is far more valuable than Fuld
and if this was seriously to make room for Fuld, then Hendry is even dumber than I thought. And that would be quite the level of stupidity
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
that's a very debatable notion
Fox was a one-dimensional, positionally challenged player in a league without a DH. Even as a prospect, I thought his best case scenario was a last man off the bench, emergency catcher, pinch hitter type, at best. He didn’t really show anything last year to change my opinion on that. He was a, go up to the plate and hack away type (okay that’s overstating it).
Fuld offers plus defense in CF, base running abilities off the bench, and the ability to come out the count. There’s a higher chance that Fuld is a starter in the NL than Fox, IMO (albeit, the only spot Fuld could start would be CF).
by toonsterwu on Dec 3, 2009 9:10 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I was about to basically post this...
Fox has a higher ceiling and a lower floor than Fuld. If Fox can’t hit any better than his season totals this year, he won’t last long in the majors at any position (think Matt Stairs except right-handed and with no plate discipline). Fuld doesn’t have to hit all that well to be a decent fourth outfielder and his plate discipline is probably good enough to carry him even if his contact skills aren’t great. If Fox figured out major league pitching he could start at LF or 1B for some team, though a contender would probably want better.
I don't think it was done to make room for Fuld
but it clearly gives him a better shot at making the team. I don’t like giving up Fox but for whatever reason Lou totally refused to use him, I mean in Sept when the Cubs ARE OUT OF IT and instead of seeing how Fox can do when consistantly being given a chance to start Lou uses career minor leaguer Scales.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 3, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
what does that say about Lou then?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
That he is a bad manager which has been my mantra for nearly two seasons.
Whatever you think of Fox playing Scales over him in Sept was an incredibly bad decision. You need to give guys like
Fox a chance to play as much as possible when you are out of it not a guy who has zero chance of making the team next year.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 3, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah ever since I read the story about Miles
and the gunman, I had a lot of respect for him.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Fox was not in Lou's doghouse
Rather it was extraordinarily difficult to find places to hide Fox in the field. We don’t play in the American League Jessica.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 3, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
we were completely out of contention
and Fox was not the butcher in left field that Soriano was, and we STILL weren’t playing Fox.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Please explain using Scales over Fox in Sept .
Per above it was a joke and typical of Lou’s bad managing. Scales has NO future with the Cubs. Fox is not that bad a fielder and was suprsingly good at third. I have no idea if he really can be a useful player but I do know that he needed as much playing time as possible.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 3, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
If he had enough playing time
To make you and some others think that he was “not that bad a fielder”, maybe he had reached his maximum value, and more playing time would have lowered that value.
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
please explain how
Fox was in Lou’s doghouse?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
150 PAs
in the second half belie that.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Think it was more about scales playing LF/RF instead of fox
I personally think hendry told lou to bench fox to prevent his trade value from going down
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 4, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
If they felt that Scales was a better payoff, then that’s why it happened.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
That I don't know
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
I tend to think
That Bobby might have gotten some playing time as a sort of farewell tour thing. The Cubs are out of it, he has done his time in their minor league system and it looks like his time is about up, and he is a standup guy. He had a few really nice games early in the season, making him a good story. You give him a few more games as a courtesy, and let him enjoy the final ride.
I don’t know that any of this is the case, but it might be, and I wouldn’t have a problem with it if it was. He might be a really good baseball person that they would consider getting into their coaching system.
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
I have to say I hadn't considered this angle before.
This makes a lot of sense.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
This is kind of what I thought, too, v6
That this basically is it for the guy, we’re out of it, he’s been kicking around the minors for years, let’s give him a few more moments in the sun. That and perhaps protecting Fox’s trade value.
I heard more than one person mention the possibility of Scales getting into coaching after his career is over.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 5, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know enough about this, but I do know
That when Scales is interviewed, he comes across as an intelligent, articulate, and energetic guy. He definitely has the baseball bug badly to stick with the minor leagues this long. And, he is a teacher in his other job.
Everything that I have seen or know about him leads me to think that he would be a great baseball instructor. And I will go one step further and say that I don’t see nearly as many of these positive signs for a certain Hall of Fame second baseman whose name is often bandied about here…um, just sayin…
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
This is only partly tongue-in-cheek
but the perfect ending of The Bobby Scales Story© would have Bobby Scales managing the Cubs ML club in his later career. The screenplay practically writes itself.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
That's not impossible.
If Scales doesn’t catch on with another team, I’d look for the Cubs to hire him as a minor league coach/manager. Seems like he’d be real good at it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Far too few...
As the other guy said, starting Bobby freaking Scales in LF over him was the definition of absurd. Fox would go days without seeing the field, which was just awful.
But in the big picture, pretty meaningless
I agree that I would have rather seen Fox play than Scales, and unless they were trying to keep from over-exposing Fox and retaining some trade value, I really don’t have a reason why. But I don’t believe that Fox is anything more than a pinch-hitter, emergency glove on a serious NL contender.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
What were you expecting...
Frankly, I’m surprised the idiot Hendry was able to get anything more than an oven mitt in order to get rid of Aaron Miles.
Hendry absolutely sucks. His ruinioius spending has buried this ballclub beyond belief. Why Tom Ricketts didn’t have the spine to fire him on Day One is beyond me.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Oh, I'm thrilled he managed to get anything for them beyond Phyllis' oven mitt she made for Michael Scott.
I’m just not looking forward to some of our fans falling in love with yet another player who has no business starting ahead of someone like, oh, Derrek Lee.
hmm, mayo makes it sound better than i thought
I was under the impression that Morla was a low 90’s change up combination. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else. 93-94 with a good slider is much better than I thought.
Doubtful, he'll be 28 shortly before the trade deadline next year.
Players rarely improve past that age.
if you think he'll have a good career
then why is getting rid of him for the best?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
because he's not
really made for the NL.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
HOOOLEY COW , it is so much talk over a truly minor deal
Fox was a nice 24th-25th man on the roster with no defense but the ability to stand there, fine…so what, if he is a DH in the AL than he is….getting rid of a bad FA deal in Miles is important…this is about subtraction first….free’s up two roster spots,
now up another subtraction (Bradley) and the team will take on a Karros type, maybe Burrell, maybe he is flipped for someone else but it is subtraction again.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Dec 3, 2009 9:14 PM CST reply actions 8 recs
well, other than not offering arbitration to guys
this is the only move our mind numbingly bad GM has made so far. So there’s a lot of talk about it
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Jeezus, we get it. You don't like Hendry. You don't have to post 50 things
in the same thread saying it.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Ivy Walls recommended?
Holy hell I think I’m high.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Not only that - he wrote only, like, two or three sentences.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
And no dissertation on economics.
I feel cheated somehow.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
Yep
We got rid of a poor man’s Jake Cust and a horrendous player signed to one of those infamous Hendry awful contracts.
Losing sleep over Jake Fox is silly. He has no role to play with the Cubs. He is a good pickup for the budget-conscious Oakland A’s in the American League.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I think we couldve done better
and I think thats most peoples gripe. Getting rid of MIles was great, but shines light on what a stupid signing it was, much like we’ll be saying with Grabow this time next year. Fox had some decent mojo buit up, whether it was real or not, he certainly raised his value over the course of the year, especially to an AL team, and one wouldve hoped we couldve at least gotten a bench player in return
Jimbos gotta go, hes our Charlie Weis
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Fox has been on the trading block for some time
if someone had made a good offer he would have already been traded. This was about the market value for him.
by LT on Dec 3, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions
again, that assumes Hendry is competent enough to actually work a good deal
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Yeah, he was able to take players off teams in full on sell mode
there’s two deals. compared to how many?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
I give him up with this guy.
I admit Hendry has been plenty of mistakes, but a little bit of objectivity would be nice.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
+1 Billion
we PROBABLY won’t miss Fox (though considering what our bench was last year, he’s actually a fairly big loss if Hendry doesn’t find a way to upgrade) but this is yet another one of Hendry’s “oh god, I signed a mediocre to bad player to a longer contract than I had any business in doing, and now I’ll PAY people to take him off my hands!” deal, he has 1 or 2 of these a year, and I’m getting incredibly sick of it.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
My thoughts exactly...
I signed a mediocre to bad player to a longer contract than I had any business in doing, and now I’ll PAY people to take him off my hands!" deal, he has 1 or 2 of these a year, and I’m getting incredibly sick of it.
I wasn’t all that excited about getting rid of Miles because we never should have had him in the first place. Sigh.
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
You are correct.
We never should have had Miles. Signing him was a mistake.
But we did have him. So Hendry did what he had to do to rectify the mistake. Not ideal… but better than keeping Miles for another year.
If we wont miss fox
why the hell are you pissing and moaning about trading him?
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
Who...
is this “you” directed at my friend?
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
nunyabidness
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
funniest thing I've read so far on this thread.
Good one, LT. rec’d.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
did you read every third word of what I said, and then get confused?
because I laid out why I’m “pissing and moaning”
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
A few things
1) It’s nice to see some discussion and see most realize this is a good thing. People who are upset probably think Fox was going to be another Mark McGwire, but most see this as the perfect way of getting rid of that rotting rabbit’s foot a named Aaron Miles.
2) Fox really was going to have a fairly minimal role next season. People forgot why he was brought up in the first place. The ship was sinking, whether you wanted to believe it or not, so why not see what the kid who was swinging a huge bat could do?
3) I liked Fox. He seemed hungry, and I hope he does well with the As or with any other team. He just isn’t one of our players who are going to be essential to reaching the post season. Best of luck to him in his future endeavors though.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 9:39 PM CST reply actions
"People who are upset probably think Fox was going to be another Mark McGwire"
Nothing like a good strawman argument eh?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions
Nothing like never changing
AMIRITE?!?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
dood
you’re the one suggesting that he could play five different positions well enough to keep him as our primary backup.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
People keep saying Fox stopped hitting in the second half.
Actually it was after Lou benched him for no reason. He got cold like any player would. I guess it was more important to play Scales in LF. To make up for his error in Miles, Hendry had to give up Fox.
Hendry is a horrible GM. A real team would not put up with this. I hope Ricketts fires him soon.
well
there’s the part where he got 90 PAs in the first half and 151 PAs in the second half… And considering he dropped .200 in OPS from the first half to the second half, why WOULD you want him playing more?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
stop moving the goalposts. It doesn’t have to do with what I prefer. It has to do with you thinking that Fox stopped hitting well because he was somehow benched.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
Do you like movies about
gladiators?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
Have you ever seen
A grown man naked?
You’re Kareem Abdul Jabar!
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked
in the head… with an iron boot? Of course you don’t, no one does. It never happens.
Just wanted to let you know
We’re all counting on you
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
You got a letter from headquarters this morning
What is it?
It’s a big building where generals meet. But that’s not important right now
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Surely you cant be serious
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I am
And don’t call me Shirley
The cockpit? What is it?
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Hey... knock a self a pro, Slick! That gray matter backlot perform us DOWN, I take TCB-in', man!
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Looks like I picked a bad thread to stop sniffing glue
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
concentrate... concentrate... I've got to concentrate... concentrate... concentrate... Hello?... hello... hello... Echo... echo... echo... Pinch hitting for Pedro Borbon... Manny Mota... Mota... Mota...
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I've got a drinking problem
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Cubs prospect OF depth is nonexistent
in the upper minors, so spencer helps there. There’s colvin, fuld, and a bunch of minor league roster filler. Not that theyd get chances w/ the contracts of soriano/fuko/bradley around, but the OF depth after that looked terrible prospect wise.
there's been some rumoring that
they could both start in AA, but the more likely scenario is still having at least one of them in Daytona.
This doesn't help the team
If Aramis gets injured again we have nobody to cover him at 3B and therefore will be out of the playoff race.
Cubs were 2.5 games out when Ramirez went down
And 2.5 games out when he returned.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 4, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Recommended
for sheer sanity
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
BUT
We probably would have been far ahead of that if Ramirez were playing. We still need someone better than Aaron Miles/Ryan Freel/Mike Fontenot at 3B if there’s an injury
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
At this point
I assume Baker is our starting 2B, and I’d rather not have Fontenot and Baker in the same lineup if possible.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Well, we could see that.
And it might not be a bad thing if Fontenot makes a comeback. Or Blanco could play second.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
More than willing to give Blanco a shot
I think Fontenot has proven his value. Excellent option against RHP, late defensive sub. I’m always open to be proven wrong but I’m not expecting much of him. I actually wouldn’t be surprsied if he was non tendered
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
But he DOES know who our GM is
we went into last season without a real backup 3rd baseman. No reason to think we won’t do it again
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, okay.
Hendry just corrected a mistake with Miles. There’s my reason for believing he’ll correct the mistake of not having a backup for Rami.
you realize the season doesn't start tomorrow
and Fox is not a good 3rd baseman. If this is the team they go with on opening day then I would be concerned.
by LT on Dec 3, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions
Hi I'm not new
And if I recall Aramis opted not to have surgery but rather rehab the shoulder. Therefore I’m not convinced he’ll be 100% in 2010. And while the team did not do much when Aramis returned, there was still a glimpse of hope when Fox was covering for him. We had more power and the blow wasn’t as bad as say Fontenot playing there.
Never said you were new
Just saying there is plenty of time for them to pick up a good backup for 3rd.
by LT on Dec 3, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
I think...
Kevin Orie is available. Let me check…
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
Not quite...
Fontenot was supposed to be the everyday 2nd baseman.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
Because I'm really beginning to think
a lot of Cubs fans know nothing about baseball and that they get what they deserve.
Baker is the new DeRosa. And I’m fine with that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 3, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
Really
it just seems to be about three in this thread. It seems like more because one of them has responded to every comment.
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 4, 2009 7:33 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not convinced Baker is the new DeRosa.
However, there is still plenty of time to pick up a backup 3B to replace Fox.
If Fox was the cost to get rid of Miles, I’m fine with this.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Or a starting SS or Second Baseman relegating
Baker to the backup 3B supersub.
I like Jake Fox and how the bench looked with him on the team. In the NL, he was the baseball equal to pulling the goalie in hockey. Down 2 runs entering the 8th? Double switch Fox into the game. His defense was marginal, but he was willing (better than Dunn).
I’m sorry to see him go, but like every end of bench guy, he wasn’t going to get 300 at bats unless there was a major injury.
Miles is gone, a little budget room is cleared, a 2 low prospects and 1 live arm in return.
Next.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
by N Oakley on Dec 4, 2009 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Everything you've said in this thread
Has been to the point and correct. Thank you N Oakley
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
PS, Rec'd
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I'm a big proponent of playing Baker a lot more in 2009
But that isn’t so much because I’m convinced he’s definitely going to be a great starter or the next DeRosa – it’s because a team like ours NEEDS a few cheap young players from time to time when we overspend on FAs at nearly every other position.
Maybe Baker won’t pan out, but if we save a few dollars before the season starts (unlike last year), we would be in a position to make a trade to fix our situation.
All we need is a candlestick maker
and we’ll complete the nursery rhyme. Cubs already have a butcher in left field.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
BCB is my first love, understand,
but I run in some other Cubs Internet circles, too. The histrionics about this deal at those places puts BCB to shame.
You’re probably right, DGU. I guess I"m responding more on volume than diversity.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 4, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
It's either that or the...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
why you make him
gotta hurt you, man?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
Then who plays 2B?
Fontenot who really didn’t contribute this year?
Yes, Fontenot does it...
… when Baker is playing third. Hopefully Baker doesn’t have to play too much 3B next year.
If Fonty starts hitting again he could earn himself more playing time anyway. It’s likely that in 2010 he’ll hit better than he did in 2009, if perhaps not as well as in 2008.
Are you being sarcastic?
Or have you forgotten about Jeff Baker?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Exactly...
There’s still time to get Jacques Jones on the roster to finish the puzzle. No worries, guys. Jim has got a secret weapon.
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
HALLELUJAH!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 9:58 PM CST reply actions
Can I get an amen?!
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
Yes!
Can he play 2nd base?!
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
You can, my son
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Another Stinker????
Leaving…
Miles: A+
Fox: D- (maybe an F)
Cash Consideration: F
I really hope Hendry does something this off-season that really gives me some hope for next season. Last years off season was such a stinker… and this off-season isn’t looking good…. yet…. sniff sniff
So Jake Fox = 2010 Mark DeRosa.
Sigh.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
It seems that someone needs to. The ones they're coming up with on their own are're very good.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
You've got...
a fourth on that.
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
Jake Fox was going to do what for us this next season?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
Be a decent bench player
When it was time for the Cubs to see what he could do everyday, they benched him. Probably because he had better stats than Bradley. I thought it was funny that when he did play once a week he would bat 4th quite often. Subs usually don’t do that.
A decent bench player...
isn’t going to get us anywhere next year. We need a motherf*cking CF’er and another Starting Pitcher.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
Notice...
SantoswoodenLEG states…
“isn’t going to get us anywhere next year. We need a motherf*cking CF’er and another Starting Pitcher.”
Where any of these resolved in this deal?
No. Thank you.
by TheHawkRules on Dec 3, 2009 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
Notice to THR...
you miss the point worse than Soriano misses breaking balls in the dirt.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Did you just say...
… that you played with Soriano’s balls in the dirt?
Um… OK… Go ahead… be happy….
I never said Fox was an awesome player… I just think he was a piece a few teams would have been interested in. I am sure no one was going crazy for Miles… nor, anyone else on our bench. I never said they would be going crazy for Fox either… still, I think he was maybe one of our more valuable pieces to trade besides any BIG names… which probably won’t be traded at all.
by TheHawkRules on Dec 3, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
“I just think he was a piece a few teams would have been interested in.”
Oakland was interested.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah...
…and maybe we could have gotten that CF or SP you were talking about….
by TheHawkRules on Dec 3, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
For Jake Fox and who? Seriously...who are we going to package with Fox for that?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
Oakland has 2 CFs
rajai davis and ryan sweeney
Hendry couldve told beane we dont want your 3 filler prospects, lets compromise and work out a deal for those CFs. Heck, they even have Scott Hairston who was a passable CF when with padres before his trade. They also have prospects grant desme, corey brown, cunningham who all play 3 OF positions unlike matt spencer. Worst case, they talk it over the weekend and rekindle trade talks till the Winter meetings
Oh, please.
You’re making fantasy league deals again. Jake Fox’s value was not “a starting major league center fielder”.
This deal was made to dump Aaron Miles. For that, I applaud Jim Hendry.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 4, 2009 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 7 recs
We didn't get a centerfielder or starting pitcher
in the Heilman trade either, but where was the angst over that?
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
I don't even agree with that
In the second half of the season 136 AB’s, he hit .228 / .285 / .419.
He is this year’s Micah Hoffpauir.
So up above
You’re complaining about how we shouldn’t look at how bad his post all star numbers were because he was coming off the bench then, but that we should’ve kept him because he was going to become a good bench player this year?
I'm with you
I really don’t get all this longing for Jake Fox. Are these the same people that thought Micah Hoffpauir should be playing 1st base over Lee? Good hitting, poor fielding guys are all over the minors. If Hendry wants one, I’m sure he can find one. Darnell McDonald, a 30 y.o. guy from the Reds hit .314 / .349 / .539 in AAA last season. He is probably available.
by rlpete on Dec 3, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
SantoswoodenWHAT????
“So Jake Fox = 2010 Mark DeRosa.”
I never said that. Chill out and stop hallucinating.
Fox will never be to us what DeRosa was.
I just think we probably have gotten Fox mixed in on a better deal. I know that he probably will be better off in the AL… still…. is this all we could get?
Oh, back at you…. SIGH
by TheHawkRules on Dec 3, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
A better deal?
We got Billy Beane to eat a turd sandwich and freed up two roster spots for players that could potentially acutally help win baseball games next year. You seem to drastically overvalue what Jake Fox is.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
No...
… I think you drastically overvalue what we received in the trade.
by TheHawkRules on Dec 3, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
We got rid of one of the WORST baseball players in MLB.
And traded a DH to the AL.
WIN
WIN
WIN
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yabbut, I still can't get over this Vincente Padilla rumor...
Is there truth to it?
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
I'm with you there.
No thanks on Padilla. I doubt it will happen — Hendry has made it pretty clear that he’s not going to be a player in the free agent market this winter.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Thank goodness
There was a distinct lack of dtpollitt in here.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
You make things fun
Like a bounce house
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
And you smell like sweaty kids and feet
Like a bounce house
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure what elicited this.
It is the end of the day though, but a shower can wait until tomorrow morning.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
I was adding to your decripiton of Dan...
that wasn’t meant as an insult to you.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry, I'm a little sensitive.
My wife is crazy right now and I do nothing right. Even cleanliness.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
SWL is an asshole.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Dec 3, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
rec'd
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
It seems prudent, given the circumstances.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
careful - I think you'll go blind...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 3, 2009 11:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I just can't avoid posting this old favorite...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Right Now?
Have long have you been married?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
Since July
She’s pregnant though, which is about a year earlier than we planned. Whoops!
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
Been there, done that.
Be prepared for the crazyness to continue. It’s a feature, not a bug.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
I think there's an app for that.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
iVibrator, the newest toy for the iWife?
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
I feel your pain – married in June, pregnant in May – she is going banana’s
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Wish you both luck. Funny how marriage
vows don’t expand to “in sickness and in health and when pregnancy hormones make her act like a total stranger…”
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
I can't tell if your sarcasm meter is screaming right now or not.
I know you’re a Purdue fan, however, so you better watch out for Bucky!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
No, I'm not being sarcastic at all.
And, I like Purdue, but I root for one college team.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Notre Dame?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
MY FAT COACH GOT FIRED AND HE'S FATTER THAN YOUR FAT COACH!
MARK MANGINO FIRED TONIGHT!
MANGINO WEIGHT > WEIS WEIGHT
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
HahAHAHAHA
Hold on, I have a pic for you
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
(taps fingers on laptop...)
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Wait longer
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
how long is the waiting period?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
In all seriousness
are you glad he’s gone? A lot of us here in Columbia kind of wish he was still around- he was giving us so much ammunition.
I think he's a very good coach.
I’ve heard plenty of stories over the years, and I obviously can neither confirm nor deny them. The real problem, IMO, is that if we were winning none of this would be an issue. I think Lew Perkins (AD) is an asshole and hasn’t liked Mark from the beginning. He was just itching to get rid of Mangino; we have a new “Gridiron Club” opening up atop Memorial Stadium next year for the rich folk, and Perkins doesn’t want Mangino to be the coach. He brought this team far, farthest it’s been in decades. In the Big 12, that says a lot.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yeah, but
does he coach from a Hoverround?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
Go Pokes.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not his biggest fan- I just don't like his style of coaching.
But you’re right- the results were there (except this year). I think they’ll need a really smart hire to make up for it.
I can't imagine a real good coach is gonna want to come to a second-tier team.
Kansas basketball OWNS this state. Football is the third or fourth option. We blew it this year, with Reesing a pre-season Heisman hopeful, Briscoe, Meier, etc.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yabbut
like you just said, they’re spending more money on football now than they have, and there is some pretty good talent in state. Understand too that I’m making this argument as a Mizzou fan nervous that KU might get better because of this.
Sidenote:
I can’t believe we blew that game.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Trust me: neither could I.
Although we deserve some credit, Danario has been a real beast this season.
I don't care at this point.
I’m gonna get to see 2 national championships in 3 years. Collins+Aldrich+Henry+Morris twins+T-Rob = Championship.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I sure hope you're wrong.
Your team is good, though. Hopefully Tiller can get back in form, and we’ll give you a run for your money.
We're by far and away the best team in the country.
We just returned 90%+ of our offense from last year, which was a year after graduating 7 players professionally.
And we start two All-Americans.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Ah Christ, I can't find it. To hell with it!
There’s a second where he has a green tag that says obese, and then a third where he has a machete that he used to eat the orange.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:40 PM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing the one in South Bend.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
I just wanted to post the fat comment. I know.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Why do you like Pur(don't)?!?!
Sorry, I’m an IU student…
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Yeah... But....
Do we have any money to go get a FA? No.
Do we really have anyone that we can trade? Not really…
So…
by TheHawkRules on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
so...
you are saying that Fox was THE ONLY item in our entire system that was trade worthy?
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Yes... in a way...
…I think he is the only player, that some AL teams will want, that doesn’t have a huge contract. At least as far as I can think of….
I mean… its obvious no one would WANT Miles. So, we had to give him up just so somebody would take him. That says something. lol
by TheHawkRules on Dec 4, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
Actually, we may still have the money to get a FA...
…because Harden wasn’t offered arbitration.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
We recieved baseball players...
we gave up a softball player and a clubhouse attendant.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Put em to work
Paper routes, mowing the lawn, getting Lou a beer, etc.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
You know what children grow up to be right?
Jeeze, you want this organization to be successful and bash moves that could bring potential talent .
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
LOL
Running low on gas there…
I’ll give you the oppertunity to come up with another response… lol
by TheHawkRules on Dec 3, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions
False
Jake Fox = Whatever year Matt Stairs left the Cubs
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
Seinfeld reference
Elaine’s birthday….Jerry got her cash
IIRC $182….
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
You got the bench! You got the bench!
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I saw you steal that book!
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
lol
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Didn't you read Dan and My Fanpost?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah dude, WTF.
JesusRosa IS BACK. He like, killed Joe Morgan.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I think it is...
about as likely as Mark Prior pitching a 200 inning season. I just don’t see it happening.
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
CHRISTMAS HAS COME EARLY!!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Dec 3, 2009 10:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I have my hand on this right now...
can you feel my vibe?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, remember when we wrote a post that had like 50 recs?
God we are awesome.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I Love You Man.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
Size doesn't matter...
…see Theriot, Fontenot, Miles, et al.
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
Size matters:
See: GeoSoto in 2010
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Haha...
Point. Here’s hoping for a Junior year redemption.
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
Jesus, are you kidding me?
We trade Fox for some effing relief pitcher prospects? Unbe-freaking-lievable.
Jim Hendry is such an awful, awful GM.
Who did you think we could get for Jake Fox? Please list the players alphabetically.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Bo Jackson
Wait, that’s not in the right order.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
Something more than...
relievers, which are a dime a dozen.
As an aside, the acquisition of cheap relievers makes the Grabow deal look that much more ridiculous.
Hey, are any of those relievers lefties who aren't all that good at getting lefties out though?
Because that’s a roster position we clearly value every year, and Grabow fills that role admirably
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
if that's the best we could get, then why trade him at all?
He’s not overpaid, he was a decent bat off the bench.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
Well, I guess...
it could be to make room for Burrell on the bench…
If we’re getting him, Fox would be redundant. Plus, we did free up some cash (although that’s Jim’s bad for wasting it in the first place). I don’t know, I guess the more I think about it, the less awful it seems.
Still would’ve liked to get more for Fox though.
I'm sorry.......we're making room for Pat Burrell?
really? He’s someone you clear roster space for now? The Aaron Miles of the outfield?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
I can't stand Pat Burrell.
Please do not want.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
if we trade Bradley for Burrell, then moving BRADLEY makes room for Burrell
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
Sure, trading Bradley makes a roster spot for Burrell.
Fox and Burrell are decently similar players, in a similar bench role- that is why trading him creates a spot for Burrell.
If that trade goes down...
I’d bet that Burrell will be on the bench. I can’t imagine the Cubs actually starting him in RF more than a few times in 2010.
if we don't get a centerfielder, then Burrell will pretty much HAVE to start
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
Not necessarily.
We could see Sam Fuld and possibly a cheap platoon partner in CF.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Reed Johnson on a cheap contract, perhaps?
I’d still like Granderson, but that platoon might work out OK.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yeah, I could definitely see it being RJ.
And I still have Granderson as my No. 1 choice for centerfield, too, but, according to Buster Olney at least, a trade is getting less likely: LINKY
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
he was a decent bat off the bench.
for about a month and a half
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
apparently.....
you haven’t paid any attention-it was to get rid of Miles, and the fact that we traded a freakin’ AAAA 27 year old! He’s not that good!
What was that redheaded kid's name that got hit in the head?
HIM
Sammy Sosa pre-bleaching
Michael Jackson
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Out of baseball last I heard
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Well...
11 HR’s in 216 at bats in his first year in the majors as well. I think we could’ve gotten more.
But we're keeping Hoffpower?!
and yes I know that’s not how its spelled
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe not we can...
…trade MB to the A’s for Aaron Miles and Jake Fox!
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
How about Aaron Miles, Matt Murton, and Eric Bynum!
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
Hell, while we're add it...
Let’s swap GMs?
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
ERIC BYNUM!?!?!?!?
Jesus god no!
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I must have confused the two
FREDDY BYNUM?!?!?!?!?!!
JESUS GOD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Breaking down the trade
Spencer will be rule 5 eligible next offseason
Morla rule 5 eligible too, he’s never pitched in a full season league. So unless he’s fast tracked or shows rapid improvement, who knows.
Gray might be the most immediate help, likely a middle reliever initially. But at 28 yrs old, he’s a non prospect.
I dont see a legit sure prospect which hendry couldve chose instead.
How do you know that?
Do you think Billy Beane is stupid? Miles has zero value and Fox is marginal. This is about the best they could get. Do you think Billy Beane is going to trade a “legit sure prospect” for Aaron Miles and Jake Fox?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm find with this...
Fox was a good bat, but a bad glove and had no place to play with the Cubs. He has some value to an AL team as he could play DH. But his bat isn’t good enough to make him a great DH. He should just be a passable one.
In return for giving up a player that had limited value, they also got rid of one that had negative value, and shed ~$2M in salary in the process. Not bad…
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Dec 3, 2009 10:33 PM CST reply actions
In addition to being find with it...
i’m also fine with it.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Dec 3, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
I can unwind with this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
TheGrinch13...
is apparently resigned to it.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Dec 3, 2009 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
Lay off the Grinch
He’s just upset-sometimes someones favorite player doesn’t happen to be the best player on the team.
And to have it be done in a throwaway trade designed to rid us of Miles probably does not help.
Lay off the Grinch
That and its that time of the year
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
It's the time of the year
to have the hap-hap-happiest Christmas since Bing Crosby tap danced with Danny f’n Kaye.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 3, 2009 10:48 PM CST up reply actions
dont know why i quoted that but ok
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
Although I think he overvalues Fox a bit,
I get it. That was just the first thing that came to mind that (almost) rhymed with unwind.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Dec 4, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Hey moron. Do some f*cking research.
You said earlier in this overly-drawn-out thread about two insignificant bench players that the CUBS received “nothing” for Jake Fox?
Why don’t you do some researching before you open your mouth and insert your foot.
The 6’ 4", 230 lbs., 23 year old Matt Spencer (left handed outfielder, btw if that still matters down the road) posted a .833 OPS between the California and Texas Leagues last season. 19 HR and 34 2B’s in 488 AB’s.
I would say that is at minimum “something”.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=RF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=460671
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 4, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
Looks like a younger version of Micah Hoffpauir...
…. who can actually play outfield.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Can he really play outfield?
Supposedly he has a nice arm, but he’s committed a ton of errors. I know errors aren’t everything in defense, but it’s hard to make up for the number he’s committed just with a nice arm.
Oh boy
DO NOT WANT
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
This isn't gonna go over well...
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Um...
I think you misunderstood my post.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Dec 4, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Wow - a username and five words inspired this much rage?
Curious.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
If you were thinking that Jake Fox was going to get us one...your first 5 words ring truer than you know.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
fox had more value than 3 spare parts
use him in a larger deal than attaching him to a salary dump
Let's not actually wait and see if these 3 players turn out to be anything...
let’s just label them “spare parts” and forget about them. Good idea.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
No, he didn't.
The market is full of DHs right now and Fox is not young by baseball standards.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Well to get a top 25-30 prospect
you either have to trade a fairly decent player or another top 25-30 prospect
Hendry did neither
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 3, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
This is a joke, right?
We’re talking about Jake Fox. He’s not exactly young, he doesn’t really have a defensive position, and he hasn’t really proven himself. You don’t get top 25-30 prospects in that sort of deal. Had this simply been Jake Fox for those 3 guys, without the benefit of the savings on Aaron Miles, I would’ve been fine with the deal as well. We got a usable middle reliever, a decent power bat, and a good upside arm. Morla’s the intriguing one to me, particularly now that Mayo says that he was sustaining 93-94 as a starter.
Elite prospects rarely get moved this day and age. To get them, you basically have to give up a top player (the most recent trade with a truly elite prospect was probably when the Tigers sent Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller , along with others, for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis).
Here's the issue
Both Morla and Spencerare rule 5 eligible next season. I’d say there’s a decent chance at least 1 will be left off. More likely Morla who hasnt even pitched in a full season league yet. There is some upside but he’s yrs away and will have to be put on the 40 man for that to happen. Yes Gray might help sooner,but he’s 28 looking at the A’s farm system they got off lucky not having to give up at least 5 or 6 other reliever prospects.
So if Morla and Spencer
are as worthless as you suggest, then it seems unlikely anyone (even the Pittsburgh’s of the world) would pick them up in the Rule V and put the on a ML roster.
So either they develop to the point that they are worth protecting… or they become organizational filler that we won’t lose anyway.
again, i think you are
overvaluing jake fox. Even though his discipline had improved, he’s still a hacker with pop for the most part. He doesn’t play a defensive position well enough to really contemplate starting him. He’s also not exactly young – he’s already in his prime. Is there a chance he’s a late bloomer? Perhaps, but his value right now probably isn’t that high.
i'm sure somebody has said that above
Jake Fox is a decent hitter that can’t field to save his life. End of story. He wasn’t going to do anything with the Cubs except be a good pinch hitter. Life goes on and at least Hendry got rid of Miles
COOL BEANS!
He's not that great of a hitter.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 3, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
hence "decent"
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 3, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not that good of a Parcheesi player.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
JENGA!
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 3, 2009 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
Jake Fox is though...
which increases his value 3.14 fold
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
"good pinch hitter" suddenly becomes an area of need for the Cubs again.
Hendry is in a death spiral, making bad moves like this one in order to provide some measure of mitigation against his prior bad moves.
When was the last time Hendry did something to help this team? Acquiring Harden? Getting Baker? It’s not an exaggeration to say that almost every trade he’s made since the Harden deal has hurt the 25-man roster.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Aramis Ramirez
Derek Lee
Rich Harden
Matt Clement (had good years with the Cubs)
Kenny Lofton
John Grabow
No A-Rod and no world series. But not bad. He’s made mistakes, we all know of them. So has every other GM
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Don't forget the Nomar trade
Hendry has hit more often than he has missed.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 4, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
Good call
Easy to forget about Nomar sometimes. Who’d we give up for him? I don’t even remember
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Brendan Harris
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 4, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
brendan harris, alex gonzalez, francis beltran, and justin jones
the really intriguing asset was probably justin jones, who subsequently failed to develop in the Twins system. Harris was semi-intriguing, but more in a utility way, and Beltran was considered a potential pen arm.
The Alex Gonzalez who was just signed by Toronto?
Or the Alex Gonzalez who botched the 2003 ground ball against the Marlins?
Or are they the same person?
BUM BUM BUUUUUUUMMM
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
alex f*cking s gonzalez
he may or may not be related to bucky dent
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 4, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions
Buckner!!!
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Super Nintendo Chalmers?
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Hence "since the Harden trade."
Hendry’s trades have been bad, but his tendency to shy away from signing truly elite free agents, while giving the Fukudomes and Bradleys of the world 8-figures annually, is crushing the franchise.
He could basically do no wrong through the Nomar trade. Then, he went into “Bizarro Hendry” mode, and did nothing right whatsoever for about 2 years. Burnitz, Jacque Jones, 9 second basemen on the 25-man roster… it was crazy time. Then, the purse strings opened, and we got Soriano and $135M worth of (mostly) somewhat-above-average players. And became a somewhat-above-average team.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 4, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
ofcourse
trading derosa while he was at peak value was a stupid idea and getting baker for scraps was horrible
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 4, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, it was terrible.
There was no point in trading away a top 4 run producer from a veteran team with World Series ambitions. Especially not for 3 minor league bullpen arms that had no chance of helping the 2009 team.
It makes even less sense when you consider that DeRosa was the only backup 3B on the roster. And that he was cheap. And that he was in the last year of his deal. And that he was the team’s de facto leader, to the point that both DeRosa and random Cubs would keep talking about each other all year long.
If you’re trying to win the Series, you don’t cut off your nose to…. potentially have a somewhat cheaper bullpen three years down the road.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 4, 2009 6:23 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Youre right
screw getting young
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 4, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions
Did the DeRosa trade make the 2005 Cubs younger?
No, it did not. The players the Cubs received were non-factors or, in one case, awful in limited time.
Acquiring young people just for the sake of lowering the average age on the 40-man is ridiculous. You have to consider what those young players are going to do — and the Cubs should have been focused on the short term. What good are young players who aren’t going to play for you?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Or, for that matter, the 2009 Cubs?
Silly typos.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I was talking about younger in the future
not now. this team isnt getting any younger
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 4, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
They're always going to have some young middle relievers.
The organization is full of them. Acquiring 3 more young middle relievers isn’t going to make the 2012 Cubs any younger, either – there was going to be 1 or 2 young arms in the pen, as there always is.
Now, Archer and Gaub may or may not be better than your typical minimum salary young middle reliever…. but they certainly aren’t going to be younger than your typical minimum salary young middle reliever.
In the meantime, all of the position players get older.
If the team wanted to get younger, they should have started Felix Pie in center in 2009.
As it stood, however, they were trying to win now with a veteran team. Which is why trading DeRosa was so insanely counterproductive and stupid.
It was as if Hendry decided that DeRosa was the only tradeable player with value, ergo he MUST be traded, regardless of the return.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
we've had this discussion before
they were obsessed with getting lefties on the team, and there wasn’t much that COULD be traded, and DeRosa was one guy they could trade high. Miles was brought in as the 3b backup, and the indications at the time were that he should have been able to do that. Remember, you hire players based on their history and projections. What they actually DO when they walk on the field is unknowable till it happens.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
The Cubs were wrong
Aaron Miles had played a grand total of 11 games at 3B in his life — 7 starts — prior to 2009, and by all accounts, he played it poorly.
Moreover, he was well established as a guy who was going to post a sub 75 OPS+, and he was turning 32. Any projection that had Miles coming close to his still-not-good-enough-to-care-about 2008 season was flawed.
We all laughed at Hendry for being just amazingly stupid on this move last year, and now we see the final result — Hendry spent $3.2M on 1 season of the worst player in all of MLB, and wound up giving up Jake Fox for the privilege of doing so.
He should be excoriated for this series of moves. He wasted the Cubs resources, both in cash and players.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
"And wound up giving up Jake Fox for the privilege of doing so"
Yep, Jake Fox, the next Lou Brock.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 5, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
A small bad move is still a bad move.
Back to NBF argument #1A — “The player we traded away wasn’t a Hall of Famer, ergo the move cannot be criticized.”
Address the actual argument! Was it a good thing or a bad thing to spend $3.2M and Jake Fox on Aaron Miles’ 2009?
It makes no difference if a particular transaction is small or large — if it is counterproductive and hurts the team, it shouldn’t be done. I don’t know why you can’t understand that.
None of these moves would have happened if Hendry understood how to prioritize his resources or run a MLB payroll.
Throwing $10M and multiple years at barely-above-average players is how you wind up with a $140M roster that is completely devoid of elite players. I didn’t think that it could be done, and yet here we are.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 5, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Wait - we get a couple prospects called Moria and Spencer...
…and over 500 comments later, not a single reference to “Mines of Moria” or “Spencer for Hire”???
Sigh… Thorin Oakenshield and Dan Tana are very disappointed…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
don't think so - what's the second "O" stand for?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
"I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear you say that..."
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Um, it's actually kinda both.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by daver on Dec 4, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
well, a real tv geek would have given me some serious FAIL points...
…for getting my Robert Urich characters mixed up. Dan Tana was from “Vega$”, not “Spenser for Hire”.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
OT: The Padilla rumor
Over at his blog, Bruce Miles has shot that down the Padilla rumor. It’s in the Cubs don’t offer arbitration thread about halfway down. Specifically, he says “Don’t worry about this one. Not a shred of truth to it. Cubs haven’t even thought about him.”
by toonsterwu on Dec 4, 2009 12:47 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
And the peasants rejoice...
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
I hope the Cubs have at least thought of him.
Because I hope they “think” of every possible available player.
I also hope that thought would have been: “a minor league deal or…… bust”.
Hmm. Over 500 posts about the FIRST trade of the off season.
It’s gonna be a loooooong winter…
FWIW-IMO: Miles gone = good thing; Fox gone = a little sad, but ultimately Jake IS a better fit in the AL. As a former Lugnut, I liked Jake when he played here in Lansing and was glad to see him finally get a shot in the bigs. Now that he’s in Oakland, maybe he’ll get more playing time and a lot less attention on the “left coast where games end about 1am edt”.
As for the vilifying of Jim Hendry elsewhere in this thread, good grief. The guy gets bitched at no matter WHAT he does. Can we let him do his job this off season and give him the benefit of the doubt. Even he will admit he had a bad year last season. He’s trying to fix it. He get paid to do this sort of thing. Let him do it.
Ultimately he’ll be judged by Ricketts during the next year and if he does a good job, maybe he’s here in 2011. If not, then we’ll get to crab about a new GM.
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
clearly
There was some stored up energy here
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
Like a tick about to pop.
BCB bonus points for knowing what movie that line comes from… ;)
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
A Christmas Story!
I love that movie, have seen it a dozen times, and hang my head in shame as I admit that I Googled this to get the answer.
However, it is Friday evening and I have had three Christmas Ales, so I am not exactly a tower of computing power myself right now…
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
"Fra-gee-lay".
“Hmmm. Must be Italian…”
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
If I understand this trade
the Cubs have another slot open on the 40 man roster now. My guess is this trade is a set up for more important moves. Instead of judging Hendry for this trade in isolation, I am willing to sit tight and stay open minded about how the roster is shaping up.
At this point I am thrilled that the paper-weight known as Aaron Miles will not be occupying a spot on the roster in 2010. That alone improves the Cubs.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
by LAcarl519 on Dec 4, 2009 6:16 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
You've made a very good point.
There’s now another 40-man roster spot open. That may indeed presage another deal. Let’s hope so.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Nothing Hendry does ever presages another deal.
If I had a nickel for every time we BCBers have taken comfort in a Hendry move by saying “this is the prelude to our Big Trade for Player X!”, I’d have enough money to upgrade my season tickets.
For instance, Hendry didn’t trade Pie to get pieces to get Peavy. He did it because he is a poor, poor GM.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
We all deluded ourselves into thinking that.
Much as we assumed that a bunch of deals were the prelude to landing Brian Roberts. And so on and so on.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 4, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Hm, I dunno.
I believe a fairly reputable MLB insider reported the Peavy-to-Cubs deal was very far along before it imploded.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Great point.
All we know now is that the roster won’t be identical.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
We have been saying this about Hendry for 6 years.
There is no master plan. It’s time we all admit it.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
NO MORE AARON MILES!!!!!!!!!
YYIIIPPPEEEEE!!!!!!!!
I’d rather have a cross between Sam Fuld and a desk lamp than Aaron Miles.
by Uncle Stanley McGoober on Dec 4, 2009 6:24 AM CST reply actions
So let me get this straight
Hendry signs Miles last year in a 2-yr deal that gives Miles $2.7M this year. He ends up sucking big time. Hendry has to offload him. Beane will “take him off Hendrys” hands but Hendry has to throw in $1.0M AND Jake Fox. The Cubs get a middle-reliever possibility and 2 low level prospects.
So the Cubs lose a good bench guy while only saving $1.7M (let’s say other salaries are a wash). Boy does this smack of desperation by a GM who’s spent way too many dollars in way too many bad spots.
Just win the next game...!
Desperation, yes.
I was afraid he’d be too desperate to make any moves.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
It's a death spiral.
Making poor moves in order to partially mitigate his prior poor moves.
It’s time for Ricketts to clean house.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Wow
The people in this post that are either elevating Jake Fox to the status of being able to swing a Roy Halladay trade by himself, or demonizing Jimmy Hendry to the level of the Pittsburg Pirates are NUTS! You are the same people that come into my dealership wanting to pay $5 for an F-150 or you want $5000 for your 1995 Pontiac Grand Prix – WAKE UP! This trade was for 1 over the hill infielder and an unproven DH (minors and one season in the bigs does not proof make) for a youngish unproven reliever (washout for Jake Fox) and two prospects (washout for Aaron Miles) so I would say this trade is nuetral…the A’s fans ( Here ) on the SB Nation board do seem to be too one way or the other about it. It appears to this amatuer that the trade most likely is a precursor for another trade, maybe sending Grey in place of a younger more risky but hotter prospect like Carpenter (I know Grey isnt that good but a team willing to take Bradley may want immediate help in the bullpen…immediate help sometimes trumps prospects).
Also in case everyone is forgetting Hendry has led us to 3 playoff appearances and 4 winning seasons in the last 7 years and our farm system is finally starting to shape up really well. Several of our starters have come from the farm, several projected for 2011-2012 starters are in the mix down there as well as the future of Cubs management. Give the guy a break, let’s have people sit around in their basement, having no clue about how you do or how to do your job and criticize your every move. Miles is a career .280 hitter with ok defense – sounds like a godo bench player to me, just didnt work out, I like Hendry, because of him we have the opportunity to worry about making the playoffs every year.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
by hansman1982 on Dec 4, 2009 8:06 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
Missing the point on Fox
No one is saying he’s an all star, what people are saying he’s a valuable player and we don’t think we received equal value in return.
The past three seasons Ramirez and Soriano have missed 248 total games. Jake Fox gave you someone you could plug into those two positions and still have a power threat in the lineup. At a salary cost of $400K, Jake was a valuable guy to have on the bench.
So, if the rumored Pat .221 Burrell trade goes down, we’ll have a $6 million bench player, to replace Fox, who can only play left field.
I think a lot of us feel that getting rid of Miles $1.7 million (adjusted for the million the Cubs threw in) wasn’t worth giving up a valuable $400K bench player like Fox.
Always loyal to Leon
Fox can't play LF
when Lou prefers Bobby Scales there. Fox had no future on this team because Lou doesn’t think he has a ML future – and he’s more likely right than wrong. But even if he’s wrong, he’s not changing his mind.
Is he traded yet?
I'm glad you know exactly what Lou thinks
So pretentious thinking you know what Lou thinks. Fox played LF in 23 different games last year, so he’s capable of being a LF back-up option.
Did you also think he couldn’t play third base? How’d that work out?
The question is, for $400K, is Jake Fox a better replacement for 1B, 3B, LF, RF than anything else on our roster? Jake represents a great value. He’s not going to the HOF, but he should be on the 2010 team.
Always loyal to Leon
Well, the idea behind Burrell is to hopefully move him...
to acquire Luis Castillo. If that is no longer the idea, it’s only one season of garbage in Pat Burrell on the bench and then he goes away.
Pat Burrell on the bench and Jake Fox on the bench might as well be the same player. Neither can hit very well or field to save their lives, but can provide the occasional “pop”.
At least in most scenarios, the CUBS get rid of Milton Bradley and Jake Fox gets more playing time and can be used more to his full potential as a DH.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 4, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm doubting Burrell for Castillo
It makes no sense for the Mets. They’d be giving up a lead-off hitter, with a decent OBP to acquire Pat Burrell.
If the Mets want a LF, here’s a list of guys that could play left and are available, many well below Burrell’s $6 million cost: Jason Bay, Marlon Byrd, Johnny Damon, Matt Holiday, Wily Mo Pena, Jermaine Dye, Scotty Pods, Vlad, Xavier Nady, Randy Wynn.
I know too many Phillies fans who loathe Pat the Bat. There was a great Philadelphia Enquirer backpage photo of Burrell standing watching strike three to end a game during the pennant chase with the caption “Standing Pat”.
Back to Jake, I’d argue he was a top 10 contributor for the Cubs last year. To trade that, just to get rid of Miles and clear $2.1 million of cap space doesn’t make sense to me.
Always loyal to Leon
Rumor is...
… if the Mets do make that deal, they then sign Orlando Hudson to replace Castillo.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yep.
JackCurry1 The Mets hope the first thing they accomplish in Indy is unloading Luis Castillo so they can sign Orlando Hudson to play 2B.
Jack Curry writes about baseball for the New York Times. I asked him directly whether the Mets are desperate enough to move Castillo to trade him for Milton Bradley, but he hasn’t responded.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
That sort of thinking cost us Felix Pie.
At some point, the GM has to pull rank.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 4, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
you're presuming
that Hendry didn’t agree with the move.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
I'm just addressing the standard argument.
Generally, people on this board have concluded that “Hendry HAD to trade Pie, because Lou was never going to play him.” I call BS. In that case, Hendry has to pull rank, for the good of the organization.
The whole Felix Pie saga was just a fireable offense — just a remarkable waste of resources. SIgn the kid at 17, shepherd him through the organization and watch him succeed at every level, then completely give up on him after 200 or so AB in the majors and deal him for nothing, purportedly b/c you’re scared to tell your field manager to play him.
I’m also fine with the alternative, which you allude to, and which is almost too bleak to imagine — Hendry decided that he’d seen enough of Pie and traded him for spare parts, which he then flipped, along with Ronny Cedeno for Aaron Heilman. In that case, Hendry is a terrible GM who should be dismissed.
I’m just bracing myself for the inevitable $8-10M Hendry is going to throw at another OF mediocrity this offseason. You have to hand it to the Yankees – they learned early on that spending $20M on A-Rod or Jeter is better value than spending $20M on Fukudome and Milton Bradley.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 5, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
The classic Hendry-defender argument.
“I can’t believe that anyone is upset he traded (DeRosa, Pie, Fox)! You must think that they’re all future Hall of Famers!”
No. I think that DeRosa would have been a valuable part of last year’s win-now, injury-prone veteran team.
I think that Pie would have been, at a minimum, better than Gathright at 1/3 the price – and potentially the team’s future in CF.
I also think that Fox could have been an excellent “big bench bat” for several salary-controlled seasons.
Once again, I have absolutely no confidence in anything Hendry does anymore. He’s just shuffling the deck chairs after steering the ship directly onto the rocks.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 4, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Derosa, Pie, and Fox wouldnt have lifted the cubs over the cardinals
stop complaining
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 4, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
Is this a weird attempt at irony?
No, it’s the second classic Hendry-defender argument. “Avoiding those moves wouldn’t have won us the division, ergo they don’t matter”.
That’s not what I’m saying. One more time, and with feeling:
Each of those moves were obviously counterproductive at the time they were made. They hurt the Cubs. The GM should not make moves to hurt the Cubs.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 4, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions
One person's obviously counterproductive
is another person’s good trade.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 5, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
Defend the Felix Pie deal. I'm BEGGING you to.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 5, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
The Pie deal was good...
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Well, there's an irrefutable defense
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 6, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
my 2 cents
very simply put….I think that no matter how good or not good you think Fox was…if Lou doesn’t play him he isn’t worth anything to the team. BTW it looks like there was some huge party here last night, enjoyed the thread. You guys trashed the place :)
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." --Mark Twain
Gee whiz.
We can get Roy Halladay for Sam Fuld, Esmalin Caridad, and Alfonso Soriano, but Jake Fox ought to bring back Brett Wallace.
Seriously, people.
No way!
This Brett Wallace? Not a chance in a trade for Jake Fox.
And Halladay will fetch much more than that and Toronto will not take back a salary of Soriano’s size.
Both of those assertions are unrealistic.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 4, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry I missed the sarcasm
typed before second cup of coffee.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 4, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Just when....
….did Jake Fox become a modern day Matt Murton around here? There is way too much ink spilled for guys like them. While I admittedly believe that Fox is a better player than Murton ever was, losing him is by no means a difference maker.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Dec 4, 2009 8:48 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
I don't often agree with you.
But in this case you are 100% correct.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Fox drove in 44 runs in limited play in 82 games...
He might drive in 100 as an everyday DH or position player in Oakland.
What a waste of a good hitter.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
He won't be an everyday position player in Oakland.
He may be an everyday DH. But I doubt he’ll have a 100-RBI season. You are overrating him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He drove in a run for every 4.9 ABs
In comparison, DLee drove in a run every 4.8 ABs.
Give him over 500 ABs and it’s very, very possible.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
It doesn't work that way.
In 2005, Derrek Lee drove in a run every 6.46 AB’s.
Do you really think Jake Fox was better in 2009 than Lee in 2005?
How about the proposed wager, btw?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
No - I think that Patterson and Neifi batted ahead of Lee in 2005.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 4, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
Ew
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
(Shhh. I know that)
I wanted to hear SackMan’s rebuttal.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
I'll bet you $100 that doesn't happen
With the proceeds going to Cubs Care. Interested?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
Highest Value?
Jake Fox had fallen off all the prospect lists by the start of last season. He rebuilt some value by having a solid season with the bat but was a liability defensively at all 4 corner spots and hit right handed, just like your starters at 1B/3B/LF. His trade value is almost certain to be at its highest point right now, given that it is hard to see how he would have seen consistent at-bats for the Cubs this season.
By trading Fox at this point the Cubs also remove Aaron Miles from the roster and save themselves $1.7 million. The loss of Fox is mitigated by the presence of Jeff Baker on the roster who will likely fill a utility role. By finding a taker for Miles the Cubs will actually have a backup SS on the roster this season (Andres Blanco or Darwin Barney). Jeff Gray throws hard and provides another option out of the pen at a low cost. Morla seems like he has some upside as a low-level guy.
I find it kind of interesting that the Cubs have acquired two somewhat similar hitters this offseason in Matt Spencer and Ryne White. Both guys are left handed hitters with college experience and a patient approach to the plate, the big difference is that Spencer has shown power as a pro.
Last thought, I found some video of Spencer at John Sickels’ minorleagueball.com and notice that Spencer’s stance and toe-tap is pretty similar to Rebel Ridling’s.
by circuitclout on Dec 4, 2009 9:04 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Almost 600 comments
on this trade in less than 16 hours, good lord.
And to everyone who is crying about Jake Fox: get over it, as Blou always says (oh no I didn’t!) – why do people around here think other clubs are lining up to get fleeced by us when engaging in a trade?
Common sense, folks…..or uncommon sense it seems.
by DMCub on Dec 4, 2009 9:06 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
This is a great topic
for a vote. There are a lot of opinions on Fox’s value. Can a vote be added?
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 4, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
Can't just be like or dislike the trade.
Suggestions:
I like this trade, Miles is gone, money saved, Fox had no place on the Cubs.
I like this trade, Miles is gone, money saved, sorry Fox had to be included.
I don’t like this trade, Fox was worth more than what Hendry received and spent.
I don’t like this trade. I love Aaron Miles.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
I'll put a poll on the front page with these choices.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think it's gonna be an exciting BCB off-season.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
The hot stove is off to a roaring start already.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
I get the feeling that this trade was like Spring Training for Hendry
Now, hopefully, he’ll be in shape to make a bigger deal(s) in Indianapolis next week.
Though, with nearly 750 comments here, I’d say we’re all a little desperate for actual baseball-related news.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Fox
If I had to choose between the overrated stiffs who can’t play defense but have some pop, I’d rather have kept Fox and traded Hoffpauir. But, getting rid of Miles makes up for it.
Of course, you know what will happen. The NL will institute the DH and Fox will have a half-decent career and we’ll have to listen to more whiny Cubs fans.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You won't have to worry about that till at least 2012.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm hoping this Fox trade frees up the roster spot
for Matt Murton when he gets non-tendered!
Is he traded yet?
Funny, although Matt would actually be a decent fit right now
given that Dome should be spelled against lefties. Assuming Murton’s UZR numbers are relatively correct, he’d make a good RF sub against lefties. Then again, he hasn’t played much RF since 2007 so I don’t know if he’s still got it.
I cant believe hendry settled for marginal prospects
28 yr old middle reliever. He throws hard, but thats about it. How about a legit reliever. A’s had many to chose from yet hendry took the oldest and worst one
Hendry got an OF prospect, fair enough. We need a CF or a versatile one. He takes one that is considered a corner OF/1b type. Why not ask for Rajai Davis or Sweeney? Corey Brown, Cunningham, Buck, or Desme?
Ignore the fact that 2 of the 3 are rule 5 eligible in a yr.
If Hendry was free to trade Fox
1 for 1 with another team, he may have secured a better return. As he jammed Aaron Miles into the deal, it reduced the value.
On my video games, a player like Miles can add value to the trade, in real life he sucks all the value out of Fox.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Thats my point
No reason to devalue fox trade status and attach him to miles to barely save 1.5mill or so. Especially when the known sure thing coming back is a middle reliever. Use Fox to help market bradley or use fox as a 2nd or 3rd piece to a larger deal
Maybe Hendry tried all that and wasn't getting anywhere.
Seriously, Jake seems like a great guy and it’s fun to watch him hit the long ball, but…he’s…not…that…valuable.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
there was no way
that you were going to get a rajai davis or a ryan sweeney for jake fox. There was no way they were going to fork over a top prospect like Desme. Simply put, I think you are overvaluing Jake Fox by a bit. I doubt they would’ve made the Cunningham swap either – Cunningham can play in the field. I don’t know where Oakland stands on Buck or Brown right now.
that's funny....
I could mirror your comments about Fox: “27 yr old bench player. He hits well, but that’s about it.”
Jim & Lou showed the new owners some fiscal responsibility...
…Unfortunately, it was at the price of giving away a natural hitter and clutch performer with many productive years ahead. Jake Fox may not be Edgar Martinez, but he likely will have a Smoky Burgess-style career, come close to a batting title in the next three or four years, and be at least a footnote in any Hendry/Piniella era postmortem.
A batting title?
I can’t see that, especially playing with the Oakland Mausoleum as his home park.
By the time Smoky Burgess was as old as Jake Fox is now, he had already played in over 400 major league games, had well over 1200 major league AB and had made the All-Star team.
Jake Fox won’t be anywhere near that good.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Here's
to Hal Smith who had a much greater hit than Jake Fox will ever get in this great game. I think our staff was polite not to talk about how poor Jakes defense was at any position. I was listening to someone from our front office this summer and they were explaining how Hendry went to all 14 American League clubs last year and didnt get one bite for Jake, so at least we’ve came to this point with Jake.
Maybe not in Oakland...
…but I can see Jake with the Yankees by midseason. Girardi already has shown he can get the most out of this type of player, viz. Uggla. Let’s just hope for Jake’s sake that if he does make some future All-Star team, it’s not as the starting left fielder.
I realize
that Hendry needed to dump Miles and his terrible contract, but this is just another example where payroll is being eaten up due to mistakes.
Similar to what we will see soon with our beloved MB.
Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...
I hope you meant to enclose that "beloved" with "sarcasm".
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What Al said...
… plus that he hasn’t proven he can hit Major League pitching. It’s plausible that he could improve his plate discipline and contact skills, but unless he does he won’t be a good hitter.
Hey, everyone!
There’s an overflow thread to discuss this topic.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I will not quit until this hits 1000 comments!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I can't believe I just waded through this entire thread.
It must be Friday. (Oh, look, it is.)
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
there, that's the 800th comment on the most inconsequential trade the Cubs will make this Winter
by Andronicus on Dec 4, 2009 5:39 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
This is the last comment in this thread.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
really
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
This is the last comment in this thread.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
What
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
happened
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
to
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
going
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
for
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
1000
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Don't
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
give
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
up
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
yet
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
,
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Dan
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
rec'd all for humor
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
God we're bored
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
One more and they are green . . .
C’mon Em!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
Lame-o's
See above
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Indeed
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
;-)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 5, 2009 1:57 AM CST up reply actions
Woo-hoo!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
We turned them green
in honor of The Grinch!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 4, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
thanks for having my back
sadly i rec’d them all, and more sad two others followed my lead. i guess i left good bread crumbs
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Not much
Financially, it doesn’t seem like this is a significant deal. I don’t think anybody thought the Cubs could get much for Miles. Jake Fox wouldn’t have opened the door for any big opportunities either. We don’t know one of the adds to the 40-man roster yet; two gone via this trade and only one add so far.
This thread just confirms why I stopped reading this blog. Who out there knows what you’re talking about?
I like baseball.
Well, thanks for stopping by to tell us that you don't stop by.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 4, 2009 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
I'll remember your comment and sentiment when dtpollitt n SWL publish their next installment of...
The Ordinary Wizarding Levels of Milton Bradley and the 2009 Chicago Cubs
Alas, we may have to entitle it something different.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Which, by the way, has a 61.5% recommendation ratio. BAM!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Ha! You're funny.
And pretty cool, according to your profile. Seriously.
You post on a site just to tell everyone that it’s a stupid site, and the person that calls you out is obnoxious? :)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:54 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, and reply is your friend.
Seriously.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:54 PM CST up reply actions
This is the last comment in this thread.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Don't count on it
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions
This is the last comment in this thread.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I'm not going out for another hour . . .
By the way, how about the Badger basketball team?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions
That Duke game was exciting.
And KU plays @ a piss-poor UCLA on Sunday.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Bucky will be ranked next week
FB and BB both pleasant surprises – even if the FB team disappointed last game.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:05 PM CST up reply actions
Tomorrow's game is early, 1030 I think.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
PM - it's in Hawaii
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
i want to be in Hawaii
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Me too - it's damn cold in the midwest.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:10 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, but you are used to it!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
I just moved her 7 months ago!
but, yeah. It’s amazing how quickly we acclimate. 7 degrees is shorts and flip flops, baby!
Cubs Supreme in Baseball World.
Rock on!
November was pretty decent here . . . today is not so much.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
Houston had snow
Austin had a little flurry, but i seen more dandruff on a kids head than the amount of snow falling today
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Holy crap you're right.
I saw 1130 and didn’t make the connection. Damn.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Take a nap in the afternoon.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:10 PM CST up reply actions
This is the last comment in this thread.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
false
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 4, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
You should know by now
that no thread is over until NOMAR posts a comment. (see below)
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
comments end here
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Nothing is over until we say it is!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 9:10 PM CST up reply actions
Was it over when
The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
HIII MOOOOM!!!!!
Mom! Hi! Look at me! MOM!!!!
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
look
jake had no place on a lou pinella team. i was hoping he would have been used in a more attractive package to get something we really needed. nice to be rid of miles so now blancoscan have a spot on the team. pinella does not tolerate sloppy fielding so thats why fox is gone. enjoy the 2010 team because i really think this team will start going younger after that. with lee and ramirez possibly leaving that will be huge holes to fill.
I refuse to quit until we have hit 1000 comments.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
if only prolific posters drew and daver would get into a little spat...
…we’d be over 1000 in no time. Heck, we’d be pushing 1200 by the end of the weekend!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
This
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 5, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
will
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 5, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
make
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 5, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
the
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 5, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
total
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 5, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
nine
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 5, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
hundred
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 5, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
fifty
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 5, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
at
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 5, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
1000
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 5, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
comments
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 5, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
wooo
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 5, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
we
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
can
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
do
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
it
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
but
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
we
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
need
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
ERIC
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
HANNA
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
to return with his insight
i am sure he is pissed we didnt get LIND in this trade
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Please no!
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
CAN
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 5, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
DO
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 5, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
IT
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 5, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
its
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
1000?
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
Only on BCB
do we have a 1000 comment post in the off season. Most baseball blogs are lucky to have 1000 comment posts when their team is in the playoffs.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
over 1000 about trading Fox no less
a move of little importance, and it generates this
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
we did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
or if MB isnt moved
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I still think that's possible.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 5, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
technically it is possible
as long as he is on the Cubs roster he can still be a Cub. It is not likely he is a Cubs but it is possible Al
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
didnt mean to strike thru likely
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I know you didn't.
Milton Bradley will be an ex-Cub by the end of next week.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
do tell Al
do you have insight to a trade, or is this what you believe will happen? If there is insight, is the trade worth it
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
No particular insight....
… other than what I’ve read, what everyone else has read, and the Cubs’ stated desire to get this over with.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Deine Wörte in Gottes Ohr !!!
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Pushing for 2000???
I LIKE HAVING MB AS A CUB!!!! WOOO GOOOOO GAMEBOARD!
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Is it over now?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 5, 2009 11:18 PM CST reply actions
No
its just beginning
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 5, 2009 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
Man, the previews are getting longer and longer nowadays.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 5, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
There's still time to visit our refreshment stand for quality food and beverage items...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
♬♫♪♪♩♩♫ On the outskirts of my mind, there’s really nothing left ♬♫♪♪♩♩♫
♬♬♫♬♩♪♫♬ Integrity’s gone, I’ve lost myself again ♬♬♫♬♩♪♫♬
♬♫♪♪♩♩♫ On the outskirts of my mind, there’s really nothing left ♬♬♫♬♩♪♫♬
♬♬♫♬♩♪♫♬ Hell is loose, and it’s only just begun ♬♫♪♪♩♩♫
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
This is the last comment in this thread.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
+2000
the new goal?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Let's get MB traded first...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
OK, deal.
Once MB is traded, I will close this thread to comments.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh, man . . .
I sure hope he DOES get traded…
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 7, 2009 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
Quite the conundrum, eh?
Imagine the comments if/when he gets traded vs. the comments if/when he doesn’t get traded…
ay carumba!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I think you better get some extra hamsters on wheels...
… for when MB is traded.
THAT thread will be redic.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 7, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
last
can’t last
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
one after last
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
last²
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
last π
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
not yet
we need to hit 2000
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
nope
too late
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 7, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
not fair
you cheat
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
hey - a palindrome!
A dog – a panic in a pagoda
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The last to leave should please turn the lights out...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Say goodnight, Gracie.
Goodnight, Gracie.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
'Zat you, Santa Claus?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 8, 2009 10:22 AM CST reply actions
Shane! Come Back!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 8, 2009 11:37 PM CST reply actions
"You finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
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