Disclosed HoF Ballots Support Dawson

This guy is compiling all the votes that writers have published. As of 12/31/09 Dawson has 88 percent of 58 disclosed

over 2 years ago northpaw22k 14 comments 0 recs |

Comments

Awesome Dawson!

Hope this works out as true for all ballots. Good for Dawson!

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Jan 1, 2010 9:51 AM CST reply actions

All he needs is to get over the 75% mark

The BBWAA doesn’t like to let more than two in at a time, so I suspect they’ll force Blyleven to stew another year simply for insulting them. Dawson should get in. The fact that McGriff is not polling as well as Don Mattingly is incredibly discouraging with the BBWAA. But we can’t exactly demand consistency out of this group. They couldn’t wait to enshrine Ozzie Smith, but they’re unsure about Barry Larkin. They gave Kirby Puckett a free pass, but unceremoniously tossed Albert Belle. Don Mattingly continues to get support, but Will Clark was one and done.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jan 1, 2010 11:05 AM CST reply actions

Don Mattingly isn't a Hall of Famer.

Yes, he had six HoF quality seasons. The rest of his career is mediocre due to injury.

McGriff doesn’t belong in, either.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 1, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions

I'd like to hear your reasoning on McGriff

I’m of the opinion that he was robbed of the chance to get to 500 home runs by the 1994-95 strike. He was on pace for a 40+ home run season before the work stoppage in 1994. Here’s what I posted from another site:

I’m not really sure how Fred McGriff would magically transform into a Hall of Famer if he had 500 steroid free home runs as opposed to the 493 he ended up with due to time missed during his peak (1994-95) that was not his fault.

He hit .318 with 34 home runs and 94 RBI in 113 games in 1994, which is outstanding. His AB/HR was 12.47, which is very solid. Matt Williams, Barry Bonds and Jeff Bagwell all had higher AB/HR. In 1995, McGriff only hit .280 with 27 home runs and 93 RBI. His AB/HR was 19.56 that year. He might have gotten a few more home runs in 1995, but he lost his chance for 500 home runs in 1994.

So the argument for McGriff turns into how valuable he was on his teams. McGriff had 326 career win shares. He was a career .303 hitter in the postseason. I even read one opinion that said he was robbed of the MVP in 1994. As we remember, Jeff Bagwell won the MVP that year and would not have won it without the strike (injury). I can’t really agree with the belief that McGriff would have won the MVP that season, but he was having an MVP caliber season.

I was pretty much arguing that he either is or he isn’t and the 500 home run discussion is a bit irrelevant. What’s conveniently forgotten in the argument for McGriff is the 1994-95 strike. I’m not the biggest proponent of win shares as an argument, but his career 134 OPS+ is pretty solid. I think McGriff belongs and I expect quite a bit to be written about his case over the years of his eligibility. He’s severely underrated in my opinion.

I agree on the fact that Don Mattingly doesn’t belong. He sticks around because he was a Yankee, but Ron Guidry found out that it was not good enough to get elected to Cooperstown. I posted a ballot here on who I would vote for if I was a member of the BBWAA, but I’d have to dig through old posts to find it.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jan 1, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions

Well, you have a point about the 1994-95 strike.

That probably cost him 15 home runs; when you get to 500 that’s considered an automatic ticket.

I should point out that Dawson had more career win shares (340). If McGriff is in, Dawson is surely in. And a further difference between Dawson and McGriff is — McGriff never finished higher than fourth in MVP voting. He led his league in HR twice, in OPS once. Never had a 40-HR season. McGriff strikes me as the guy who was always very good, never great.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 1, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions

I never argued against Dawson

McGriff also had a WAR of 51. 47 is the very definition of borderline. Gil Hodges falls into that category (47 WAR), but McGriff is definitely better than Hodges. We again return to the strike on the 40 home run season point. By all rights, he should have had one. As it stands, he had 10 30 home run seasons (could have had 12 including the 40 without the strike). It’s just food for thought.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jan 1, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions

Hodges is in...

… for his full body of work including managing.

Eventually, Joe Torre will get in for the same reason. If the Cubs win a WS under Lou, he probably gets in, too.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 1, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions

I don't really support Gil Hodges for the Hall and he's not in Cooperstown yet

I don’t think his managerial resume has enough meat on it other than the Miracle Mets and his playing stats just aren’t there for his position. It might not have been such a big deal to induct Hodges years ago, but he looks less and less like a Hall of Famer as the years go by. Did he die too soon? Probably. He could have really padded his resume had he lived. Now what I think hurt Gil’s playing career the most is that he was not discharged from the Marines until 1946, so his career had a major interruption. Had he got started a little later, he could have compiled better numbers.

Joe Torre decided to retire from playing because he did not feel he could be the best manager if he was a player-manager. He was in decline by that point anyway, so it was a good move. I think his playing career gets overlooked because he has had such a successful managerial career.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jan 1, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions

I dunno.

Hodges was a borderline HoFer as a player. Combine that with leading the Mets to the… well, you know… I think that gets him in.

Consider this: he hit 370 career HR in a lower-offense era. That ranks 67th all-time… but unless I’m counting wrong, Hodges ranked in the top 10 at the time he retired.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 1, 2010 8:14 PM CST up reply actions

mvp Voting should not be part of the formula

its like ASG voting, unfair, biased, and a joke. How many times have awards in the post season gone to someone who didnt deserve it over another who did, and we seen it debated and torn apart for the following year.

McGriff is a HOFer IMO, but not before Bly, Dawson or Raines

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 1, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions

Dawson looks like he is in with Alomar

Makes up for the Marlon Byrd news. You know, the 245 pound centerfielder who hits from the wrong friggin side of the plate and just got one of those patented Jim Hendry Special contracts.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 1, 2010 5:27 PM CST reply actions

Think happy thoughts

It helped Peter Pan fly.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jan 1, 2010 7:35 PM CST up reply actions

LOL

Are you ever happy? I mean, seriously?

Only you could make a post like that in a thread like this.

by kanderber on Jan 2, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions

The guy I was happy to see get in was Jim Rice.

First, because he deserved it. Second, because him getting in practically guarantees that Dawson will get in. If you compare their career offensive numbers, Dawson has Rice beat in absolutely everything except career batting average. And on defense, it’s not even worth comparing.

I felt the same way when Bill Mazeroski got in. I mean, I have the type of sense of humor that can laugh at absurdity, but this Veteran’s Committee popularity contest vote that put Mazeroski in because of one clutch home run and the fact that he seems like a nice guy, is beyond the realm of stupid. And yet, it made me happy, because it guaranteed that Ryne Sandberg would get in. Always a silver lining.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Jan 2, 2010 7:01 PM CST reply actions