Identify This Old Wrigley Field Scene
by Al Yellon on Dec 4, 2009 8:00 AM CST
in History
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PrintHave you had enough of ripping apart the Fox/Miles to Oakland trade? Personally, I think Jim Hendry did a fine job of dumping (most) of Miles' contract (the Cubs are giving the A's $1 million) and getting at least one possible major league arm in return. Let's move on.
I have located another historic photo of game action at Wrigley Field, courtesy again of eBay member "nicepictures". There are actually enough clues in the photo to determine the date and players involved without me telling you a single thing about it. Before you go past the jump for the answer, see if you can figure it out.
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Well, you're thinking, what are the clues? You can't see the clock, or the names of the teams on the scoreboard. Your first clue is the team name on the batter -- it's clearly "Los Angeles". The batter is lefthanded and wears #4. As it turns out, #4 is one of the one of the Dodgers' retired numbers -- it belongs to Duke Snider.
OK, so now we've narrowed it down to 1958-62, the years Duke Snider played for the Los Angeles Dodgers. But even though there are no teams on the board, you can tell that the board has the red lines in the middle indicating the "Chicago" spot on the board that was created when the leagues expanded to 10 teams. Further, the AL side of the board says "NITE GAME" -- indicating the game was probably played on a weekday, since night games on weekends were rare in that era.
So we've now narrowed it down to 1961 or 1962. Your next clue is the number on the Cubs pitcher's back -- you'll have to zoom in a little bit to see it. It's 39. The Cubs didn't have anyone wearing #39 in 1961; in 1962, it belonged early in the season to Tony Balsamo -- who pitched twice against the Dodgers, but in April, when the ivy wouldn't have been full, as it is in the photo.
Later in 1962 #39 was issued to Paul Toth, after he was acquired on September 1. Now we're getting somewhere. The only game in which Toth faced Snider at Wrigley was Friday, September 14, a game in which Toth had to enter in relief in the first inning after starter Don Cardwell (and two other relievers) gave up seven runs while recording only one out. Toth faced Snider twice; once in the first after the Dodgers had already batted around, and again in the fourth. This photo is likely from the first inning; look at the angle of the shadows, which would have been different in the fourth inning, later in the afternoon in mid-September.
The result of this at-bat was a fly to left field -- Duke Snider made the first two outs in that inning. The Cubs lost the game 13-7; it was the ninth loss of a ten-game losing streak for that awful Cubs team which set the club record for losses with 103 (tied four years later).
But we have a photo of a moment frozen in time from that season, left for us to decipher 47 years later. Attendance that day was 5,356; looks like probably half of those people were in the bleachers. The catcher was Dick Bertell; second baseman was Ken Hubbs; first baseman (obscured) was Ernie Banks; right fielder was George Altman. The plate umpire was Ken Burkhart and the other umpires visible were Frank Walsh (1B) and Chris Pelekoudas (2B).
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Cool, I love these old photos and their stories...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Wow. The bleachers don't
appear to go to the foul pole. Am I remembering wrong or is this how they looked before the expansion.
I also don’t understand what I’m seeing in the RF grand stand. Are those railings?
Day baseball versus the Dodgers under a Miller High Life sign. I approve this image.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
In this era...
… there were no seats on either side near the foul pole — there were simply walkways, called “catwalks”, between the grandstand and the bleachers. Seats were added in the 1980’s — those became the “group section” in RF and “family section” in LF. The 2005-06 expansion made the bleacher boxes in RF and the LF area regular bleacher seating.
Those are, in fact, railings you see in the box seats. They divided seats into little “boxes” of about 12 seats each. I’m not sure what the point of those was, but they weren’t removed until about 1970.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Thats the way the bleachers were when I was a kid.
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Right.
They looked pretty much like that until the mid 1980’s. The doors, painted red then, were painted a kind of aqua blue for a couple years when TribCo took over, then painted the current dark green (which looks much better blending in with the ivy).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh, I thought we were going to get to guess
And my answer was going to be, “A baseball game.”
I’m sad I did not get to be a smart ass yet this morning. It’s a slow day.
Wow, Kenny Hubbs at second ...
great photo. The resolution of the photo seems very high.
For a moment it surprised me Banks was already at 1B, but it probably was about ‘61 or ’62 when that happened. Which made me think I can’t remember seeing any game action photos of Ernie at short. WGN has a video clip in their archives (they always show the same one) of Enie fileding a grounder. I would love see something similar to this photo with Ernie at short.
"The Cubs are due in sixty-two." - #14
Ernie Banks...
… had some serious injuries about 1960/1961. In ’61 he played some 1B (and also left field!) midseason before moving back to SS to end that year.
He became a full-time first baseman in 1962. Except for three games at 3B in 1962 and eight more at 3B in 1966, he never played anything but first base from 1962 to the end of his career.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Ernie Banks... (played) eight more at 3B in 1966
Under Durocher? Santo must have been hospitalized?
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Dec 4, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
Yes.
Santo was hit in the head by a pitch from Jack Fisher of the Mets in the first game of a doubleheader on June 26, 1966.
Banks played the rest of that game at 3B. He had played some other games at 3B earlier that month, but surprisingly, he did not fill in while Santo was out.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
"It is completely unimportant. That is why it is so interesting! " -Agatha Christie
You’re quite the sleuth. Great detective work.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
Field drainage...
when was the “crown” put on the field to help with drainage? It appears, in this picture, as if the field is actually quite flat. I thought the crowning was done in the ‘50s. Or maybe it’s an optical illusion.
lousy catcher
Dick Bertell caught 100 games in 1963 and had a grand total of 14 rbi’s. Joined a long list of lousy catchers for the Cubs in that era including Sammy Taylor, Cuno Barragon, Moe Thacker, Harry Chiti, Del Rice, Chris Krug etc. Finally along came Randy Hundley in 1966 to show us what a real catcher looked like!
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
The Duke was one of the all-time best Wrigley Field hitters...
…on a par with Schmidt, Clemente & Mays. Seeing him here in one of his last at bats as a Dodger is a reminder of the disastrous Andy Pafko salary dump at the trading deadline in 1951. At the time, local media reported a possible Pafko for Snider trade.
Of course, even if the Dodgers had been foolish enough to propose this deal, history shows that the Cubs were looking to cut costs, and probably would not have been interested in swaping star salaries.
Would love more of these.
Al, thanks for the read… It’s like some baseball investigation stuff. I’d like to see more of these this off season when you find the time. Thanks.
Go Cubs. Go Irish.
"I was in awe every time I walked on to the field." -- Ryne Sandberg
"No player in baseball history worked harder, suffered more, or did it better than Andre Dawson. He's the best I've ever seen." -- Ryno
by ctinsley12bsu on Dec 4, 2009 10:29 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Thanks Al
I love these old photos. Keep ’em coming!
You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. ~Jim Bouton, Ball Four, 1970
Maybe there's been a lot of ripping...
Because the trade sucked. Have you ever thought of that? You don’t get rid of one of your best trade chips to get a mediocre bullpen arm. If you want to add someone to the bullpen, get someone else with experience to go along with the boatload of kids that will be out there next year.
If they would have traded him to get someone like, say, Curtis Granderson, then maybe people wouldn’t be so upset about it.
It’s obvious that Fox was in the doghouse (for playing too hard, for hitting the ball too hard, for being friendly to the fans, I’m not sure which yet) and I knew that Hendry would take the first opportunity to trade him. And he got NOTHING in return for him. Say all you want for getting rid of Miles. If people want to unload their garbage, or fleece another team, they call the Cubs.
Let’s see if you still are “praising this trade” that got us that big 1.7 million in savings (a drop in the bucket to billionaires) when Fox hits 35 homers for the A’s this year and the guy we got has a 6.89 ERA.
Trade whom?
Duke Snider? Just kidding, but serious on the post thread fail.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
No kidding.
I am amazed at all the angst over a role player that didn’t fit. A likeable guy, and I wish him well, but as BLou might say, “Heavens to mergatroid”.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, lord.
You are entitled to your opinion, but Jake Fox was a nice guy who is suited to be a DH. This trade was pretty good, considering how badly Hendry wanted to get rid of Miles. He got a serviceable bullpen arm and a couple of middling prospects.
Your idea of trading him for Curtis Granderson is patently ridiculous.
Two more things:
1. We already know how you feel by about 100,000 comments in the thread from last night. We get it, OK?
2. This comment doesn’t belong in this thread.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 4, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You have all the tender sweetness
Of a seasick crocodile
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 4, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
You can try all you want, but you're not going to stop Christmas from coming.
Why don’t you just come on down from your moutain top and join us while we sing Go Cubs Go? We’ll even let you carve the roast beast.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
Great picture!
This made me miss baseball, and realize I love the fact that baseball has been played at Wrigley for so long…
Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...
Here's another interesting thing ....
… that you can see in the photo. Take a look at the flag on the RF foul pole. That’s the “official” Cubs flag, or at least it was, though it has not been flown at the park in years. It has a logo in the middle and then some stars representing the pennants and World Championships won.
I’d like to see them start flying that flag again, somewhere at the park.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
At the base of that foulpole,
is that writing, or just some sort of grate?
5,356 people paid to get into that game. Looks like the majority were in the bleachers. I wonder how many stuck around until the 4th.
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Dec 4, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
Do you mean the 353 (???) on the foul pole? Or the 353 on the wall below it?
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
I think...
… he’s talking about what’s on the side wall, not below it. If so, those are pads — the padding on the wall was much smaller in those days than it is today.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Coach
I wonder if the 1st base coach could be Pete Reiser? I’m pretty sure that down at third would have been our old pal Leo Durocher.
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
Durocher was definitely the 3B coach for the Dodgers in 1962.
I don’t know who the 1B coach was.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
according to a roster I found on wikipedia...
The Dodger coaches were:
* 33 Joe Becker
* 2 Leo Durocher
* 31 Greg Mulleavy
* 27 Pete Reiser
To me, one of the numbers looks like a 3, which would be either Becker or Mulleavy. Becker is described as a pitching coach in his bio. The guy in the photo is holding a clip board. So, while it would be odd to have a pitching coach out there, I suppose it is possible. Maybe someone with sharper eyes can better ID the guy.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
check it out
Interesting item in the box score has Ron Santo leading off! Also, they show 2nd base ump as Jocko Conlan.
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
Had some time this afternoon, so here's how I solved it:
Duke Snider, #4, LA Dodgers = 58-62
Earl Averill, #6, Cubs C = 59-60
Dick Bertell, #6, Cubs C = 60-62
10-Team AL = 62
Dodgers at Cubs 4/24-26, Ivy was filled in and green
Dodgers at Cubs 7/20-22
7/20 was a Friday. not likely a weekend crowd
Snider did not play 7/20-22
Dodgers at Cubs 9-14-16
9/14 was a Friday, not likely a weekend crowd
Snider played 9/14
Bertell played 9/14
Tony Balsamo, #39, Cubs P = 62
Paul Toth, #39, Cubs P = 62
Toth pitched 9/14
September 14, 1962.
(And now I’ve just learned that the AL expanded one year before the NL – I only looked up that the NL had 10 teams starting in ’62)
Also in retrospect, my assumption that this couldn’t be a weekend crowd was a reach.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Dec 4, 2009 5:02 PM CST reply actions
Loving the old pics Al...
Never get tired of checking out old pics from Wrigley…please keep them coming! It’s kinda funny now to see the actual roof lines of the buildings beyond the outfield walls in some of these pics – before all the monstrosities of today were built on top of them. In this pic, I don’t even see anyone hanging out watching the game from a rooftop.
At first I thought...
by the follow through by the Cub pitcher, it could have been Burt Hooten. But then I noticed no baskets on the wall which made it before Hooten’s time.
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