OT - BCS fixes and vents
by Worf on Dec 8, 2009 11:54 AM CST
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I wanted to make a new thread for people to whine, bitch, complain, fix and even defend the BCS. This stuff really shouldn't go into the pick-em thread or the thread about Northwestern or Iowa.
The BCS disgusts me. I think Alabama-Texas is a worthy matchup, but it is by far not the ONLY worthy matchup. Add in that the coaches poll was completely off the rails (some coaches ranked Penn State above not only Iowa, but TCU, Boise and Cincy)
I have no real problem with a ranking system that factors in computers and pollsters. It's what happens to those rankings that are idiotic. Here are my solutions:
* The NCAA needs to take a stronger hand in scheduling. It should encourage and foster partnerships between conferences, much like we have in college basketball. Have an ACC-Big 10 challenge in football as well as basketball.
* Eight-team playoff. It is simplicity itself. 1-8; 2-7; 3-6; 4-5 all in the second Friday and Saturday in December. (the 1-8 game Friday night; three games Saturday) These games are played on the higher seeds home fields.
This year:
Ohio State vs. Alabama
Oregon vs. Texas
Boise vs. Cincy
Florida vs. TCU
* The next round (assume high seeds win) of 1-4; 2-3 should be played on New Year's Day -- Two of the BCS bowls get it.
* Championship game played the second Saturday in January. Have a consolidation game played before. The other two Bowls get these.
Every other team, INCLUDING teams that lose in the first round of the playoffs, can accept other bowl bids. So, if Ohio State loses to Alabama, it can still accept the Capitol One Bowl.
I like the 8-team format. I used rankings. If you want to do a system where the champions of the BCS conferences are guaranteed bids and you take two others, that's fine. If you want to broaden it to 16, I can live with it.
I'm not necessarily doing the whole "little guy rules!" thing. I do believe that Alabama and Texas have played better schedules than TCU or Boise. That's why I want the NCAA to take a stronger hand in scheduling. At some point, I'd like to see the conferences grow. Boise would kick ass in the Pac-10 and TCU would be a much better representative of the Big 12 than Baylor or Kansas State.
Add on your ideas. Defend the current abomination. Let's have at it!
And let the Hawkbrains have their own thread. The Illini will rise again!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Same old story.
While having a playoff system is good in theory, but the money in the bowl system is too much to create change. Period.
As for the Illini rising again? Wouldn’t they have to be up at some point, in order to rise AGAIN?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Agree on SOS
The most we could ever for is a 4-team playoff. If that did happen, it would not be before 2014. I don’t think we’ll even see that for a long time to come.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
No playoffs!
I know I am in the minority on this, but I like how each week has it’s own do or die drama to it throughout the season. Nobody cares about regular season NCAA basketball. All the attention is for only one month. I actually watch and care about college football throughout the whole season.
Certainly the system is far from perfect, the scheduling can really be a joke, but I don’t want to see a playoff format. Just my two cents.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 12:14 PM CST reply actions
How can it be do or die drama?
When there was serious talk that Florida and Alabama could have a rematch?
USC was still being touted as a contender with three losses by its apologists.
That “every week is a playoff” is a load of horseshit.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Like I wrote
It isn’t perfect. Sure, you can come up with multiple examples of how it’s gone bad and these are some good ones.
However, who is to say that even with a playoff system that “the best team” is going to crowned a champion. Ohio St is the 8th ranked team. For the course of the season, does anyone relay think that they are “the best team” if they happen to get on a three game win streak? Or Cincinnati for that matter?
Nah, I like the way it is. A playoff system doesn’t seem better to me than how it is now.
Who cares about the NCAA basketball regular season? Seriously, who cares? That’s what will happen to college football if a playoff system were implemented.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a believer in the purity of competition
If you create an 8-team tourney and told all 8-teams that they had to win three games to be the best, then the team that wins three games is the best.
If Ohio State beats Alabama in the first round, that means Alabama couldn’t get it done when it counted.
The most infuriating thing in all of sports is when some jackass from the losing team says, “We know we have the better team.”
No, you lost. That means you are inherently NOT better.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
It only means you're not better that day
There’s luck that goes into every game. Sometimes it’s luck that determines a winner and not talent on the field. I just don’t like the idea that everything rides on one day. Certainly my “do or die” words earlier were a bit of hyperbole, but it at least takes the breadth of a whole season into account rather than just one day or even a few weeks.
I do understand the argument for a playoff system and sympathize with it. There are advantages to it and I won’t argue that, but there are ramification to it. I don’t want to give up the importance of the regular season to see it. As I wrote, no one gives a damn about the NCAA basketball season. No one.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
Your "do or die" is ridiculous
if you don’t believe in the idea of winner-take-all.
The best teams create their own luck.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I said it was hyperbole not ridiculous.
Are the Oakland Raiders a better team than the Pittsburgh Steelers? By your argument, they are a better team. Talk about ridiculous. That’s purely asinine!
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
On Sunday, they were better
And when that Sunday is the Super Bowl, then they get to call themselves the best.
Every team knows the stakes in a championship game.
The Giants were a better team than the Patriots. The better team doesn’t choke.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Exactly
like the NFL, College Football has such an uneven schedule that you cannot tell who truly is 1 or 5 or 25 during the season, and without a playoff system it is still not accurate IMHO.
I am a Longhorn Fan, dont get me wrong, but many major schools have 6-8 weak teams and a few good games (Texas included)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Going back more than a few years ...
the Steelers beat the Raiders in a playoff series when Franco Harris caught a deflected ball and ran it in. Regardles of the argument of whether the call was right or wrong, your argument is that the Steelers were a better team because the ball bounced far enough for them so that Harris could catch it. If, for some reason, the ball didn’t bounce that far then the Raiders were the better team.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
No, they were the better team
Because they had a running back with the wherewithal to make the catch and run it in. They were the better team because they made the best play at the right time.
The best makes their own luck. The only exception I will make is for officiating that decides a game. And by that, I mean end-of-the-game plays.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I guess the Cardinals should not have been in the Super Bowl
according to the thought of many on here about such a playoff system.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Well, foremost, I am only arguing that I don't like the playoff proposition
for college football only. In college football, one can only play a small fraction of the other teams, maybe only 12 – 15 %. To then take that and then put them in a one game playoff series against an opponent for three weeks (or four), in my mind, would produce a very arbitrary winner.
The way the set up is right now still produces an arbitrary winner as well, but I think it’s a less arbitrary champion than the other way.
I don’t think there is a great solution here. Because of that, I would rather keep the system the way it is becuase it produces more drama and excitement during the regular season.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
How so?
We have known it would be Texas vs. Alabama or Florida for six weeks.
There was literally nothing TCU, Cincy, or Boise could do to change that.
In fact, if Texas had lost, there still would have been enough pollsters and coaches who rematched Alabama and Florida to where it would have been close. Hell, you could have found a few who STILL put Texas in there.
The idea that this is exciting is crap. The only thing that is exciting about college football is the faint hope that someone will come in and bust it up.
I do agree that basketball has put too much of its weight into the NCAAs, which is why I want an 8-team tourney and not a 16-team. Eventually, an 8-team will grow to a 16 and I’d rather put off it growing to 24 for as long as possible.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
But you discount all the games prior to that 6 weeks
Those were important too when Ohio St and USC played themselves out of it. They could have been there.
I find it exciting, certainly much more so than college basketball. Depending on what is going on on any given Saturday night, I may choose to go to a bar with some friends to catch a game. I won’t do that with basketball.
Do you really think that TCU, Cincy, or Boise are better than Texas, Fla, or Alabama? Really? Do you really not think that even if they were to win in a match up that they would only be better for that one day.and have been the benefactor of more than their share of luck?
Now, don’t get me wrong, It would be exciting to watch those 7 games, but I just don’t want to sacrifice that for the excitement I get out of the regular season.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 7:29 PM CST up reply actions
it is possibly any of them are better
look at the bowl game a few years back when Oklahoma lost to Boise
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
If the NFL operated under a BCS system
we’d never know who Tom Brady was. The Rams and the Steelers would have been matched up in the Super Bowl XXXVI.
For that matter, we’d never know who Kurt Warner was, because the Rams would have been too far back in the preseason polls to actually make the championship game.
Of course, under a BCS system, the Cubs make the World Series in 2008… so maybe I should root for it
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Sure
but I do acknowledge that pro sports are different than college if only in that in college football you can only play a small percentage of all the other teams.
Certainly, the BCS doesn’t work for the NFL or MLB. I just don’t see how a playoff system on top of BCS rankings is any better than the way it is now especially since the regular season will be marginalized because of it.
It’s an arbitrary champion either way. i just think it’s less arbitrary when you have to factor in the whole season more than when the regular season counts for less.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 7:19 PM CST up reply actions
taking the top teams
and having a playoff does provide a “more true” champ.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I don't think so
I don’t think that Ohio St is the best team in the country even if they got on a three game winning streak.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions
it does crown a more true champ
taking who we think is the best two does not
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
So if the ball bounces 6 inches less
that is an indication of Harris’ wherewithal??? Exactly how?
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
Another thing about that play
if Bradshaw had been more accurate with the pass and completed it to his intended target (as was his intention) the game would have been over.
So, the Steelers were the better team because Bradshaw was less accurate than he intended to be??? How does that make any sense?
It doens’t make any sense. On that day, they got lucky. Sometimes luck happens.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
And if Jack Tatum had been more concerned with the football
and less concerned with committing the first homicide on a football field, he would have been able to knock the ball down.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Right
and if he were one inch shorter the ball would have hit him in a different spot and would have bounced in a different direction. So what?
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
so the NFL, MLB, etc
all should do away with the playoffs for the same reason, and have a BCS-like set up according to the “better that one day” feeling
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
If it were up to me
I would like more importance placed on the regular season. It is more difficult to be better over a 162 game season than a 7 game playoff.
But there is a big difference between college football and pro sports mostly in regards to the number of teams that any one team can play.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
fine
but that can only be done with a balanced schedule where everyone has the same games against everyone to properly set up such a decision
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
In a perfect world, yes
Obviously, in college football where there are 105 some odd teams, that’s impossible.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions
making a playoff that much more important
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Except for the teams that are ranked jsut below 8
The further down the ladder you go in rankings the more and more subjective it is. Honestly, I highly doubt that Ohio St is the best team in the country, but I’m relatively convinced that either Fla, Texas or Alabama is.
Though Ohio St is 8, I think they should have been played out of that title.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
you can do the playoffs over a month to six weeks
and allow 8 maybe 10 or 12 into the playoffs, there is enough time to play it and not go into the NFL’s post season.
you can still have the bowl for the other teams as well, and no one is going to lose out on their bowl games, that is the one argument that I hear and laugh at. The bowl games will still make money, if they didnt make money without the top teams, there would not be 60 teams (or so) that make bowl games.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Agreed
I think the timing and the financial component can get worked out. I just hope it doesn’t.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 8, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
Top 8 Conference Winners
I would put Georgia Tech in that 8 team mix for winning the ACC championship and kick Florida out for losing the SEC championship. Notre Dame, Army, and Navy all need to join a football conference. If only the top 8 conference winners were allowed into a playoff, conference games would still mean a lot, and conference championship games would mean even more. I would use a BCS formula to determine what the 8 top conference winners were.
There are 11 D1-FBS conferences. I don’t have any problem with 3 of those conference winners staying home, if they are playing against weak competition during the regular season.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
3 Teams Left Out
The 3 conference champions that would be left out under this system would be East Carolina, Troy, and Central Michigan.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I think we can all live without them
Or throw in a fourth conference and let them all play each other for the right to sit at the big table.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
or have more than 12 in
and if needed give a bye week, etc. there are a lot of options
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Couple points
1. I don’t see how there would be less money in a playoff + bowls system. You could still play all the meaningless bowl games as always, and they wouldn’t be any more or less meaningless. BUT, you would also have the incredibly meaningful and exciting playoff games. I don’t understand how it would not add revenue.
2. The regular season would still be very important. If you take the top 8 teams, small conference teams would need to go undefeated to win, and large conference teams could have one loss max.
DEJESUS!!!
Bingo
Hosting the championship game every four years would put the Bowls into poverty. Yep, they would be destitute.
Shut up about the money, people. You put in a playoff system, you get to print money.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I like the idea of pairing up conferences. Could you go so far as to
pair them up as first division and second division like soccer in Great Britain. Finish first in the lower div and move up, last in the upper and move down?
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Well, you couldn't get them all in
But the NCAA should step in and refuse to sanction Florida vs. Tallahassee School of Toilet Repair or whatever the hell happened this year.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
At first I thought this said "BCB fixes and vents"...
… and sure, I know there are some problems here…
Then I figured it out. I happen to agree with this idea — it could even be worked into the existing bowl structure. It could happen after the current bowl TV contracts run out in 2012 (or is it 2013?).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
More ore less saying what i did in the other thread...
… but try this on for size. I’d like a 16 team playoff.
Start it when the bowls would traditionally begin… if you had a 16 team playoff starting the same day bowl season begins this season (December 19th), you could have the round of 8 on or around the 26th, the round of four on or around the 2nd, and the national championship on the 9th (two days after the currently scheduled game, and in time for the students to get back for class at most schools).
If you wanted to keep some part of the history, just name certain games (the final four) after the BCS bowls, and the rounds of eight and sixteen after some of the second tier bowls, and let the rest of the established bowls fight it out for whoever didn’t get in to a tournament in a sort of NIT for football played DURING the same playoff the top 16 teams are in.
More games would be played (with the best teams playing multiple times to cap the season, during key holiday weekends) so more money would be made. There would undoubtedly be some issues with this, but nothing that couldn’t be worked out.
I believe the real obstacle is getting the BCS powers to agree to letting the smaller conferences play. A Cinderella during March Madness is cute. During a college football playoff, it could be devastating to the traditional powers.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
I'm not so much in favor of the little conferences playing
I mean, East Carolina and Troy really DON’T belong.
In a way, I wish Boise and TCU weren’t part of the picture. Because they are overshadowing that a BCS school, Cincinnati, isn’t getting in.
And let’s face it, we all love the first two rounds of the NCAA tourney, because that’s when little guys rule. But I kinda like my Elite 8’s and Final Fours to be power teams.
Boise and TCU really are big-conference teams stuck in small conferences. The best thing they can do for their schools is to get into the Pac-10 and Big 12 and then they can be in favor of the current system.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Houston and East Carolina
I thought this was the year that C-USA was going to have a team break out and finish in the top-15. Both Houston and East Carolina were disappointing. I was thinking Houston was going to be better than any team in the ACC, but Houston didn’t even win C-USA by losing to East Carolina. ECU lost four games this season, and they simply aren’t and shouldn’t be in any championship playoff.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I guess i care less about the conferences.
I just want to see the top 16 teams play to see who is best.
8 seems too small for my taste. Every other year it seems we have a debate where a third team SHOULD have gotten in to the championship game, but didn’t. I think this would still happen with 8 teams… you’d have a couple of one loss teams in the top 10 nationwide that will be left out and possibly should have gotten. With 16, you are going to get all the best teams, and some pretenders who skated by on weak schedules. Those pretender teams will get washed out in the first week.
If a Boise or TCU is great, they shouldn’t be punished for the rest of their conference sucking.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Matching up TCU vs. Boise State
is a joke. It’s almost like the BCS is trying to keep these two teams from playing (and drilling) one of the the big names.
I don’t understand why they can’t find a way to incorporate the bowls (and sponsors) into a playoff scenario.
What they get with TCU vs. Boise State...
… is that one of them has to lose, meaning there’s only ONE undefeated team complaining about not getting a shot at the national title, instead of two.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And they get to call one a fraud
Apologists in the big media like Musburger and Cowherd can chime in when Boise loses.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
And thus, the other one still hasn't "beat anybody".
Such hogwash. And i’m a fan of the Iowa Hawkeyes (whose coach is the highest paid employee in the state) and the Big 10 (the most pro bowl system / BCS conference there is).
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Everyone once in a while, the NCAA bracket folks do this crap too
They put mid-majors against each other in the first round.
And Alabama announced they were cancelling classes so students could go to the championship game. And yet these asshole presidents say that a playoff would cut into academics.
I hate these people.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Game at 3 PM Central Saturday
Tuscaloosa is only about a 3.5-4.0 hour drive from Atlanta. Why the heck would any classes need to be cancelled on a Friday in Tuscaloosa, so the students could get to a game in the middle of the afternoon on a Saturday in Atlanta?
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Oh, the BCS Championship Game
That is in Pasadena. I was thinking about the SEC Championship game in Atlanta. The BCS championship game is on January 7. I wouldn’t think that classes would be back in session from Christmas break by then in Tuscaloosa.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Non-BCS Championship Game
That’s what TCU-Boise State is. It’s almost as if we need 3 separate partitions of Division 1:
Division 1 FBS – BCS
Division 1 FBS – Non-BCS
Division 1 FCS (aka Division 1-AA)
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I barely follow...
college football these for this exact reason. I won’t watch a minute of the bowls.
Rankings frustrate me beyond belief. Notre Dame, USC, Oklahoma, etc. etc. will always find their ways into the polls, no matter how many losses they endure.
Kansas State is 6 years removed from a Big 12 title. No need to pile on my boys for hiring an idiot coach.
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