Jeter's Fielding

by careyrd on Feb 10, 2009 6:38 PM CST

I have had some testy discussions about the bad fielding of Derek Jeter since the ARod steroid issue has surfaced. Many people refuse to recognize how over-rated Jeter is and I want to know how people here at BCB stand on the issue.

If you look at Jeter's fielding percentage, I believe you are misled on the actual efficiency of each position and I look to Baseball Reference for a more complete view of fielding. Examine the Range Factor (RFg) and you realize how weak Jeter really is as a fielder. Range Factor is calculated as following: 9 * (A + PO)/ Inning. In 2008, Theriot is rated just below Jeter in Range Factor and I know there are many people that love to criticize his defense. I am not at all comparing the two, but just an illustration of Jeter's limitations

Yea I know that Jeter is very solid from the plate, but I do not see how this makes him one of the elite SS in the game. He has had a few decent years, but even in his Gold Glove years (04, 05, 06) you can find several players with greater fielding ability. If you look at his career Range Factor for Jeter is telling of how he had several outlier seasons, but in all is over-rated.

What do you guys think? Where do you place him, defensively, as far as starting SS today?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Over-rated as a fielder

However, he brings a lot to the team in term of mental toughness and leadership. And who can forget the nose dive he took! Any guy who can stand the NY media for all those years is okay in my book. Over-rated? Yeah…but nothing to hate on.

by walsh2317 on Feb 10, 2009 7:09 PM CST reply actions

Intangibles

The last line of defense of an overrated player.

by Wreckard on Feb 10, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions

No longet top SS defensively

but he is the definition of a team leader, and clutch performer.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 10, 2009 7:21 PM CST reply actions

yup, he should move to 1b soon, although that won't happen

look for him to DH in 3 years..

#34: You'll be missed!

by Chanman25 on Feb 10, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions

maybe 3B

with ARod back to SS?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 10, 2009 7:42 PM CST up reply actions

I highly doubt that

#34: You'll be missed!

by Chanman25 on Feb 11, 2009 6:27 AM CST up reply actions

I am going to be a bit biased....

…considering Derek is a Kalamazoo native, and being that we are roughly the same age, I have run into him a few times (although not recently, he hasn’t made it back to the area in some time). But all of that is neither here nor there, sort of like this ridiculous post. So DJ may not have the range of a Furcal or Reyes, but he is still one of the premier SS’s in the game today; for his leadership, clutch hitting, and yes, his defense.

"I don't want to be a product of my environment. I want my environment to be a product of me." Frank Costello

by kalamazoo_cubs_fan on Feb 10, 2009 8:33 PM CST reply actions

His awful, awful defense

by Wreckard on Feb 10, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions

This post exemplifies the problem...

you are ignoring the facts and basing your opinion of Jeter entirely on his previous reputation. His defense was never great at SS, and it’s getting worse. His value was that he was a very good offensive SS, good enough defensively, and he didn’t freak out under pressure (allowing him to basically maintain his level of performance in the playoffs).

Now, his offense may be declining and his defense is still bad. But people ignore that because he had some great playoff moments several years ago.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions

Range factor is a flaw stastic

But Jeter ranks terribly on some other more advanced ones like UZR, Plus/Minus and PMR.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 10, 2009 8:44 PM CST reply actions

Yeah, his career UZR/UZR 150 numbers are downright embarassing.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 11, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions

I have never looked at UZR or PMR

Where would I be able to find those stats in a sortable form or something along that line? And what makes range factor flawed?

by careyrd on Feb 12, 2009 1:25 AM CST up reply actions

Fangraphs has them.

Here’s a link to Jeter’s page. Just scroll down to the “Fielding” chart.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 12, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions

Give him credit

His defense isnt great but maybe its some of those spectacular plays in the whole that get people saying how great his defense is. And by the way who votes on the gold glove?

by Aramis Ramirez on Feb 10, 2009 9:35 PM CST reply actions

Makes the plays he can get to

but he should never have been considered an above average shortstop. Baseball Prospectus actually dedicated an entire chapter of Baseball Between the Numbers (very good read, by the way) to discuss this very matter and show that his ‘04 Gold Glove was not earned on merit but on prestige. There’s actually a funny quip about how new Yankee fans probably thought his first name was “Pastadiving” given that “past a diving Jeter” was muttered so frequently in the play-by-play.

That said, he’s had a great career, does have good leadership qualities, and without using a term like “intangibles”, I’d say he has a good baseball IQ.

"Baseball is like Church. Many Attend; Few Understand." - Leo Durocher

by JD McCubbie on Feb 10, 2009 11:17 PM CST reply actions

I have a few Yankee friends

and we argue about Jeter from time to time. I maintain that if you take Jeter out of New York, he’s just another slightly above average shortstop. They seem to believe he’s the second coming of Christ.

He handles the media well and I think that’s a lot of the reason why everyone seems to think he’s great.

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Feb 11, 2009 8:17 AM CST reply actions

Derek Jeter is an outstanding ballplayer

Perhaps the author of this thread needs to acquaint himself with the body of work produced by Derek Jeter. To include his being the heart and soul of a ballclub that has appeared in 6 World Series, and won 4 of them, during his tenure in the Bronx. Jeter will also well exceed 3,000 hits before his career if over. Anybody who plays 13 plus years as shortstop in the Yankee pinstripes earns my respect.

by BLou on Feb 11, 2009 8:19 AM CST reply actions

He has done all of those things

but being the heart and soul of a team, leading it to 4 WS and reaching 3000 hits have nothing to do with his feildinging. I’m convinced if he never dove into the stands for that pop up and we didn’t see it on a highlight show every few months that the basic fan wouldn’t really have such strong opinionsa bout his defense. I hate it when a player makes one great play that make people forget all the rest of their mediocre plays.

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Feb 11, 2009 8:42 AM CST up reply actions

Derek Jeter has never claimed to be Ozzie Smith

That said, anybody who can man the shortstop position for 13 years under the intense scrutiny that comes with playing in New York must be doing something right defensively. Jeter is likely going to be moved to left field or 2nd base in a couple years. In the meantime he will be quality enough defensively at shortstop.

Jeter is one of the best big game players I have seen in my 45 years. He is also shoo-in for the Hall of Fame.

by BLou on Feb 11, 2009 8:59 AM CST up reply actions

Oh bull

Jeter gets absolutely no scrutiny from the NY media whatsoever. He has a complete free pass.

No one’s disputing the fact that he is a great hitter, or that he has been fortunate enough to play on some great teams.

But seriously, have you actually seen him play shortstop? He makes Theriot look like a shortstop.

by Wreckard on Feb 11, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions

I am well acquainted with Jeter's body of work...

since the yankee’s are forced down america’s throat via ESPN. I obviously looked through his stats as well as comparables from other SS to make sure I was not delusional. Perhaps you need to remove your pinstripe glasses. I do not consider players better just because they play in NY and just because Jeter has played 13 plus years does not make him great. This was simply discussing his fielding and the numbers to go with it. World Series, hits, heart and soul, etc does not factor into that. I am fully aware of his good work at the plate and I do think that he is great for the makeup of a team. I would rather have many other guys at starting SS though.

by careyrd on Feb 12, 2009 1:18 AM CST up reply actions

The funny thing about that catch

is that a few innings earlier, Pokey Reese made a similar catch for the Red Sox, but since it was Jeter and he dove and was bloodied, it became a huge deal.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Feb 11, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions

Good post...

He had a lot of success very early in his career, and certainly in some important playoff spots, but he was just a “piece” of those great Yankee teams at the end of the ’90s. From then on, he was just kind of thrust into the national spotlight, and Mr. Yankee.

There is no doubt that he is over-rated. He is a good ballplayer who handles NY well, which has made him great in a lot of people’s eyes.

I personally can’t stand how he “nods” at the pitcher when he is set in the batter’s box. It drives me nuts!!

In fact, whenever I’m playing against a “computerized” Derek Jeter in a video game, he is automatically beaned…no matter the score or inning.

by smitster2008 on Feb 11, 2009 8:57 AM CST reply actions

He's not a great fielding SS and it's open

to debate whether he is still a decent fielder.

That said, he the rare combination of a clubhouse leader and clutch and any knock I have on him is merely jealousy that the evil empire was able to find this guy and grow him out of their system.

by N Oakley on Feb 11, 2009 9:42 AM CST reply actions

Hypothetically

If the yankees were to rotate Jeter to somewhere else on the field, where would it be? At first glance corner outfield is the only thing that makes any sense for the team.

by careyrd on Feb 12, 2009 1:28 AM CST reply actions

Jealously is a bitch

Derek Jeter is a first ballot Hall of Famer with 6 World Series appearances to date and who will go down as one of the great big game performers. To go along with well over 3,000 hits and yes even a couple Gold Gloves by the time he retires.

Some people hate Jeter because he is the definition of success.

by BLou on Feb 12, 2009 8:24 AM CST reply actions

Not grasping the topic at hand is a bitch.

But apparently you are not very open to discussing the topic of Jeter’s fielding beyond him playing 13 years and being moved in the near future. And yes, Jeter has played on several teams that were very successful.

by careyrd on Feb 12, 2009 10:57 AM CST reply actions