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Steroids next victim; who would hurt the most?

I was disappointed by the A-Rod news, but I can't honestly say I was surprised. Over the last half a decade, us baseball fans have endured the crumbling, and tarnishing, and deflating of legacy after legacy. Nothing is a total surprise anymore.That being said, it got me thinking: is there anyone else that could deliver a bigger hit than baseball has already taken?

What current player would yield the biggest blow to baseball if he were to be linked steroids next?

My first thought was Pujols. Even though i hate that stupid bird on his uni, one of the best, pure hitters in the game. But that being said I think my final answer is Jeter. On the biggest stage possibe, as captain, with fingers full of rings, all kinds of endorsements, and approx. 18 extremely hot girlfirends, the guy simply is the face of baseball in this country. And a symbol of sucess, pride, hard work, etc. I think his asscoiation to steriods would cause a lot of people give up on baseball.

But what do you think? Jeter? Pujols? Ortiz? CC? or was a-rod the worst possible? Just wondering out loud.

 

 

 

 

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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More damaging than players

to baseball’s reputation would be to find out that not only was it a systemic problem among players, but that union and league officials knew how rampant steroid use was, yet did nothing about it, and actually signed players that were known users inside baseball circles.

To me, that would be more damaging to the game…and wouldn’t surprise me one bit. There are already allegations that Gene Orza tipped off some players about upcoming pee tests.

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 11, 2009 1:38 PM CST reply actions  

Right.

I’m not waiting to point fingers. I’m waiting to have the system fixed.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 11, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

If 90% were taking roids in the early '00's than

9 out of 10 ……pick em

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Feb 11, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

The Orza situation is quite damning to the Union.

If he was tipping off players in 2003, in an effort to drive down the number of positive tests, then he needs to go.

The union’s handling of this is mind-boggling, and the appearance that the higher-ups tried to make sure that mandatory testing would never occur has to be addressed.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Feb 11, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

You can't handle the truth!

Honestly, though, I think if MLB and the Union were honest and open about it and admit the faults then baseball could move on. Everyone already thinks the worst and this bit by bit bad news only makes it look worse.

Have an open and honest dialogue about what happened and then build from there. Let’s not forget that one huge thing that baseball has going for it is that the steroid policy in place now is not viewed as a joke. Baseball has learned its lesson, on testing at least, and I think the public recognizes that.

by jerry morales rules on Feb 11, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Unfortunately, the union will fight tooth and nail to support the players

Case in point: former commissioner of baseball Fay Vincent attempted to throw pitcher Steve Howe out for seven cocaine violations. The union wanted him reinstated and they got him reinstated through arbitration. The union convinced an arbitrator that eight is a better number than seven.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Feb 11, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think Jeter

used PEDs but who the hell knows. I think Pujols would shock me, though.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on Feb 11, 2009 1:51 PM CST reply actions  

I think you just explained why Jeter would be a backbreaker...

For one, he’s so beloved by so many and has such a squeaky-clean image. For another, because of his style of play, people don’t suspect him. To have a big-time star that no one would suspect would be really bad for the game. Maddux is another example of a guy that would be really bad for baseball. He’s so widely considered to do things the right way that it would be shocking. So I think Maddux and Jeter are the two best examples for the question.

Pujols’ style and meteoric rise to success out of nowhere make it so that I’d be less shocked if he was on PEDs. Also, because he’s a power hitter, people are more likely to believe he’d use. (this is not to imply that I think he’s using, just to be clear)

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

+Jeter on SNL

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions  

To answer your question truthfully, Greg Maddux being linked to steroids

would yield the biggest blow to baseball.

He’s the one guy I would bet money is NOT linked to steroids.

Imagine the chaos if he were!!!!

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Feb 11, 2009 1:52 PM CST reply actions  

weird

beat me by a minute..

by neifi on Feb 11, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Would it?

If Maddux was on the juice wouldn’t that go to prove that steroids don’t work? I mean, look at him. That’s not a joke either. I know Maddux has joked in the past that if he were on the juice he should get a refund.

by jerry morales rules on Feb 11, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Point well taken

and for clarification, the poster asked, “What current player…?”

Maddux is retired so my answer is wrong regardless.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Feb 11, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

In addition

some use various steroids under Doctors guidance for injuries, others for illeal use, do these get taken into considetation?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Those are primarily...

corticosteroids, not the anabolic variety used by athletes.

A steroid is a lipid, that is a fatty acid, and actually occurs naturally in our bodies. In fact, testosterone, progesterone, and estrogen are all steroids. So is cholesterol.

by northernsails on Feb 12, 2009 7:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Cholesterol?

Bacon is a PED? ha ha ha ha

by N Oakley on Feb 12, 2009 8:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Uh oh

If cholesterol is a PED than Maddux would absolutely test positive. He loves his Big Macs & Krispie Kremes.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Feb 12, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Maddux

Tony Gwynn, Ricky Henderson, Chipper Jones, KG Jr

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

not sure

if it would be that damaging for baseball, but if Greg Maddux ever was implicated, that would be the worst to me.

by neifi on Feb 11, 2009 1:54 PM CST reply actions  

Some Cub players

I would be worried about D-Lee and Soto .. and a lesser extent Ramirez. I would be alittle shocked if Soriano used them.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on Feb 11, 2009 1:54 PM CST reply actions  

Soto won't be on the 2003 list, and I doubt D-Lee would be either

Though D-Lee could be nabbed doing something around the 05 season.

I honestly expect Pujols to be on the 104 player list, along with David Ortiz. From a national level those are the two biggest names I can think of off the top of my head.

Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.

by nji232 on Feb 11, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Pujols did share a clubhouse with McGwire

But, that’s just suspicion by association. Not really fair.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Feb 11, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Morandini shared one with Sosa

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 8:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Soto is one player who suddenly "found" his game

Please….oh….please….I don’t want to learn that Soto was taking the juice.

I would be crushed.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Feb 11, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I would be more upset if Big Z was caught

and honestly probably more upset to see Wood or Aramis as well.

Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.

by nji232 on Feb 11, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL.

Soto actually lost weight… he used to be pretty pudgy. Kerry Wood convinced him to train differently and be on a better diet. It transformed his game a lot.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Feb 11, 2009 8:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Sad to say

but at this point nobody would surprise me.

by bluekoolaide on Feb 11, 2009 2:16 PM CST reply actions  

Nefi Perez...

because that would add insult to insult.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 11, 2009 2:22 PM CST reply actions  

Neifi

He got pinched for using greenies.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Feb 11, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Up until a few years ago most ballplayers were on greenies

Neifi was stupid enough not to heed warning and got caught.

by BLou on Feb 11, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Neifi

was suspended twice for it after his days with the Cubs.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

amphetamines aren't steroids.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 11, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

and they're still not steriods...

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 12, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

/me shrugs

If an athlete gets caught with speed in his/her system, it’s really no different than with steroids. Both are drugs, and drugs all do something to change body chemistry.

Then again…so does Sugar. So maybe that should be a controlled substance too.

by northernsails on Feb 12, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

And what about food?

Surely you can’t argue that players should have unequal nutrition. Some players eat healthier than others. We should look at all of their numbers again, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 12, 2009 8:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Hahaha!

But Al, I’m on your side. I think the whole system of controlling drugs is silly as it stands. Did you know that the two deadliest drugs in existence are also the only two that are legal?

by northernsails on Feb 12, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Good point.

I’m always surprised to find out how many baseball players are heavy smokers. Mark Grace, for example, was a chain smoker. Wonder how much better an athlete he would have been if he didn’t.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 13, 2009 9:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely

And we all know how many famous and star baseball players were big drinkers. Think of what they could have done if they were addicted to juice (the legal kind) instead of booze.

by northernsails on Feb 16, 2009 2:03 AM CST up reply actions  

A lot of guys would surprise me

Griffey, Johnson, Smoltz, Glavine, Chipper Jones, among the big stars.

Oh in case anyone missed it in another thread my favorite “defense” of why a reporter for the San Jose Mercury
is sure Maddux never took steroids ( He was #1 one on the list )

1. Greg Maddux: Adding oomph to the fastball would have hurt his game. Plus, as the Mercury News’ Daniel Brown sagely notes, "Anybody whose physique could pass for a sports writer’s seems beyond suspicion."

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Feb 11, 2009 2:26 PM CST reply actions  

There is no way Maddux used roids

What possible benefit could that have had for him?

Also I don’t think Manny used, because he isn’t smart enough/have enough commitment to stick to a steroid cycle.

Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.

by nji232 on Feb 11, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Steroids have many benefits...

They don’t just make you bigger. Steroids allow you to recover more quickly from strain. Thus, they allow you to train harder.

This is the classic misnomer about steroids. They don’t make you stronger/better by themselves. They just allow you to train harder and recover quicker, which subsequently makes you better.

So how could it help Maddux? Perhaps it allows him to work on conditioning more vigorously in the offseason. Perhaps it allows him to bounce back after a tough day on the mound and be stronger the next time out.

I’m not saying he used. I’m just saying that the benefits of steroids don’t necessarily only show in your bench press or mph on your fastball.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Not to mention greenies

Just sayin’

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 11, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Greenies would be unlikely for any starting pitcher

Not impossible but they would be mostly used for players who need to be up day after day like position players and relievers.
Back in the day clubhouses supposedly had two pots of coffee marked " Leaded" and “Unleaded”

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Feb 11, 2009 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Maddux was notorious for NOT conditioning in the off season

Until the last few years. He would not throw a ball from Oct to Jan. During the season he was supposedly first in the weight room but David Justice used to joke that Maddux was working out with his six ounce weights. His favorite exercise was shagging fly balls. Another quote I always liked explained why he prefered doing that to more traditional work out methods , he said something like , " you can go on a treadmill and watch Jerry Springer or go out and pretend to be Andruw Jones"

I am not saying he is a saint but he is the last guy you would suspect of this.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Feb 11, 2009 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Which is why he'd be a backbreaking discovery...

I don’t particularly think he did it. But there are certainly ways he could have benefited (aid in recovery, for example). And because he seems least likely to the average person, he’d be a huge blow to the league’s credibility (for whatever that’s worth).

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Well he was only on the DL once in 23 years

( and that was for 10 days )not sure recovery was needed.

Trust me I fully understand you are not accusing him of anything but I just can’t help myself on this subject.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Feb 11, 2009 5:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Recovery time for pitchers....

Not linking Mad Dog by any means. But, there is suspicion that many middle relievers and closers could have used some form of steroid to increase the recovery time of their shoulder after an outing.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Feb 11, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Pujols would be my opinion

along with any Cubs. Typically (not always) steroids are going to make you bigger. you can see that in Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire. With that in mind, I don’t see Maddux, DLee, A-Ram, or Junior Griffey having took steroids but who knows.

by Cubs and Hawks fan on Feb 11, 2009 2:31 PM CST reply actions  

I think he was already implicated.

Didn’t he admit to some kind of PED use?

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 11, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

So, when it's someone you like...

You enjoyed them.

Someone you don’t, get the electric chair!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 11, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I hear he only took them because

he thought they would help him get over his fear of spiders.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Feb 11, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions  

were they

for his bad knees? that would be plausible

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions  

No one current would be all that shocking

Except for Maddux. Maybe Pedro and Glavine.

I agree with the first poster. No single player, except maybe Pujols, is all that damaging now that A-Rod is out. The real issue will be if it comes out that the union AND owners collaborated and covered it up, or worse, encouraged guys to take them.

But here’s who would be personally damaging to me.

Ryne Sandberg. After the speech he gave at his HoF induction, he’d just better be clean.

Andre Dawson.

Those are my only two heroes left. The rest of them can go to hell.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 11, 2009 3:12 PM CST reply actions  

And see, I could see Pujols more easily than some other guys

I certainly don’t want to suggest he is using, just that I would be less shocked to hear that he uses as opposed to other stars like Jeter, Ichiro, Reyes, etc.

For it to be backbreaking to baseball, I think it needs to be a star player that isn’t known for something that steroids would clearly help. That rules out the big-time power hitters and the power pitchers.

That’s why I think Jeter and Maddux would be the worst for baseball.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

On Dawson and Sandberg.

by bluekoolaide on Feb 11, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

If Ryno ever tests positive...

He can keep on walking. I don’t want him back to explain himself.

Just talk a walk, dude. And shut up about respect.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 11, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Without doubt, Andre Dawson

This would break my heart. He was my hero growing up. My son is named Dawson after him…

If it came out took them, I would be seriously crushed. To be honest, if he did, that wouldn’t hurt so much (though I’d still be upset), what would be hurtful is the lies about not doing them. He has come out so much against them, it would ruin him and his HOF chances if it came out he did them.

In away, with all the pain he went through, I’m surprised a legit Doc DIDN’T give him any. After all of those operations and such… Wasn’t a lot of ‘riods legal in the 80’s?

He said he didn’t do them, and I believe him. But this has crossed my mind. I can’t help but think about it…

by TheHawkRules on Feb 11, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Names

Well, anybody with sane objective mind knows that Sammy Sosa was juiced for the better part of a decade. So his name popping up would hardly be surprising.

I doubt very, very strongly that Albert Pujols has ever been connected to steroids. On the other hand I cannot say the same about our very own guess hitting hack Alfonso Soriano.

It’s unfortunate that we even have to engage in this “indictment” games. But this is what the weasel Bud Selig and the players’ union have reduced the average baseball fan to. They should be o’ so proud of the integrity element they have instilled in the game.

Baseball has become a cesspool and it is utterly disgusting.

by BLou on Feb 11, 2009 3:19 PM CST reply actions  

Everyone...out of the pool!

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Feb 11, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Dukey!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 11, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

It's just a Baby Ruth bar

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Feb 11, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey, we're all gonna get laid!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 11, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

What is this, the dance of the living dead?

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 11, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

No time for love Dr. Jones

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

That wasn't the question...

but I find it interesting that you suspect Soriano but not Pujols. Not surprising, given your hatred for Soriano. But interesting. Both have been extremely productive and consistent. Both have immense power. Both have suffered through injuries. Seems like one would be just as likely as the other, in my opinion. Sounds to me like you’re basing this purely on your dislike for Soriano.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Two things...

1. Soriano’s rapid explosion onto the scene while member of the Yankees.

2. Soriano’s pattern of pulled leg muscles.

But again, if Bud Selig, Alfonso Soriano and others don’t want us playing the suspicion game then hand over the list of 103 names. And routinenly pee in a cup for the medical testing professionals.

by BLou on Feb 11, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

How is Pujols different?

1. Pujols’ rapid explosion onto the scene (out of nowhere) while a member of the Cards.
2. Pujols’ pattern of shoulder injuries.

As I said, both exploded onto the scene. Both have nagging injury issues. If you suspect Soriano, seems like Pujols would be just as suspicious.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know if they really care

if you’re suspicious, so long as you keep coming.

Fans have a very overdeveloped sense of their own importance.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 11, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup...

steroids certainly hasn’t hurt baseball financially. The only place it’s had any noticeable impact is in the Hall of Fame vote (and I suspect that will fade with time).

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Jayson Stark was on Mike & MIke the other day

Blathering on about how the McGwire vote proves no one will ever get in.

Codswallop and balderdash.

McGwire is a one-dimensional lunkhead who would only have been in there on his power. He couldn’t outrun a sloth and couldn’t play adequate first in a T-ball game.

Bonds and A-Rod and even Clemens were HoF before they even picked up a needle.

McGwire never gets in. Bonds gets in after a couple of years “punishment” and Clemens gets in after five or six years. A-Rod — First ballot.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 11, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

That'll be the day

I have doubts about all of them, ever. Especially bonds and clemens, now much aligned for there adamant denial which appears to be lies. I would be VERY surprised for them to get in while they are still alive. A-Rod being first ballot would be shocking as well. Pete Rose isnt in for better on games after he played. That ABSOLUTELY NO effect on his numbers or performance and he is banned. A-Rod had help with his numbers. Would be quite hypocritical and down right shocking for A Rod to be 1st ballot or the others to ever get in, in their lfietime.

by KButler on Feb 11, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Bonds and A-Rod and even Clemens were HoF before they even picked up a needle.

that we know of. We cannot now for sure when they started using.

Did they use before making it to the bigs and stop a while?
Did they use a lesser form until getting in touch with the right dealer?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

And would A-Rod's numbers ...

from 1994 to 2000 really have gotten him into the Hall? I don’t think so.

by elgato on Feb 11, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I would argue it doesnt matter.

You cant enter only part of a person in. You can’t put Roger Clemens (prior to 2000) in the hall of fame. When someone commits a crime you don’t say, well he was a great person before that, we’ll let him stay out of jail. Same applies here

by KButler on Feb 11, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Bloggers too...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Feb 11, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, Pujols is, essentially, the ARod of the National League...

…so, yeah, Albert.

To throw another name out there, Tim Lincecum. He’s made his name on his unique mechanics, refused to ice his arm after games … in many ways, Tiny Tim represents a 21st Century approach to pitching. If he was implicated, the game would be set back quite a ways, though he obviously wouldn’t get ARod’s press.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 11, 2009 3:37 PM CST reply actions  

You may be on to something with the youth thought

I think most of us would say that a veteran name would be most damning. It certainly would make the most press. However, it would be equally depressing to see many younger names on the list—that would be proof that the enforcement message hasn’t even reached those who came up through the minor’s with testing.

by TC Cubby on Feb 11, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's true.

I didn’t consciously mean to make that point but, now that you’ve mentioned it, I will take full credit for it.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 11, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Lincecum arrived on the scene post-testing

I am of the belief that 99% of the players are clean over the past 3 seasons. Maybe that’s incredibly naive on my behalf, but that’s what I think.

by BLou on Feb 11, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

agreed

Too much to risk now. At least for the big names, who in their right mind would risk it, seeing what has happened to those who have been even suspected of, much less caught.

by KButler on Feb 11, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not so sure

we can say players are cleaner in this post-testing environment. I’m not sure where I originally saw this article linked (maybe BCB somewhere?), but it was very enlightening about what’s going on these days. Bottom line, the chemists are a step ahead of the testers, so while I think we can assume the specific drugs have changed since testing began, I don’t think we can assume almost all players are now clean. Though I really hope I’m wrong.

by claypot33 on Feb 11, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Most damaging

would be to find out that the test results were not correct, and that those admitting actually did not have a positive test result (they passed, or were not tested). This would reflect worse IMO on all those involved. Test results can get mislabled, it has happened before, who is to think it cant happen again.

I am not saying that it happened once, just thinking outloud about how bad that would reflect on everyone.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 3:46 PM CST reply actions  

Especially on...

Knee-jerk loudmouths who want to convict everyone without a trial.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 11, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

ALL of baseball brought this upon themselves...

don’t single out Selig. The owners certainly didn’t mind the excess revenue that was made (and is still being made) as a result of steroids.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Names that I guess are on the list

Sammy Sosa
Alfonso Soriano
David Ortiz
Andruw Jones
Carlos Delgado
Pedro Martinez (which would kill his Hall of Fame bid)
JD Drew
Nomar Garciaparra

by BLou on Feb 11, 2009 3:47 PM CST reply actions  

This is somewhat inappropriate...

as it is baseless speculation. It’s also well off the topic suggested in the post. It’s also funny that you seem to pick and choose guys to blame randomly.

Why not Griffey if you list Drew and Nomar? Why not Prince Fielder if you list Ortiz? Why not Pujols if you list Soriano?

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Inappropraite and unfair, maybe

But, in the current climate, it’s become increasingly hard for me (and many other fans I know) to not indulge in this kind of speculation.

by bluekoolaide on Feb 11, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

Bud Selig, Donald Fehr and the players can drop their drawers and pee in a cup if they don’t like speculating. Better still, release the other 103 names from 2001 – 2003.

by BLou on Feb 11, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Or, I guess they can ignore you...

and keep raking in the money that you and everyone else keeps doling out in ticket purchases.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Nomar is on the list

I would be more certain of that than Bonds or Clemens, honestly.

by KButler on Feb 11, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Clean players

Frank Thomas
Ken Griffey
Albert Pujols

Prince Fielder arrived on the scene post-testing, so he is clean too.

by BLou on Feb 11, 2009 3:53 PM CST reply actions  

Amusing list...

Ignoring the fact that (a) it’s inappropriate to accuse people with pure speculation and (b) this was not the question asked in the post, I find it funny that you seem to have chosen randomly.

Why Soriano and not Pujols? Both came out of nowhere, both have developed nagging injury issues.

Why Drew and Garciaparra and not Griffey? All were big-time talents who have struggled to stay healthy.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I would be curious as to why you'd give Junior a pass...

…when he’s been injured so often.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 11, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Hang on, give him in a minute

The bats that live in his skull are on a smoke break and aren’t sending him messages right now.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 11, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm curious about several inconsistencies...

seems like a pick and choose to me.

Honestly, there isn’t a name that would shock me. For one, BALCO suggests that players can beat the test. So even players like Fielder could be using.

Seems to me that it’s easier to just suspect everyone is doing it, and move on.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Damn chemists!

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Feb 11, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

suspect

or accept and move on

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Accept is probably a better way to say it...

accept that there are a lot of users and move on.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that pretty much sums up my approach.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 11, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Hard to argue with that

I’d add in the possibly naive hope that it’s become a little harder for players to cheat.

by bluekoolaide on Feb 11, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd agree it's become a little harder...

I mean, before testing, there was zero prevention from using PEDs. Now, there’s at least some hurdle that would have to be cleared to get away with it.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Really

You are putting a lot of faith in steriods testing that you probably know nothing about. Considering they don’t have a test for HGH and they can’t possibly develop a test that covers all of the designer steriod possibilities that are still to come, I find it highly probable that players are still using.

Some Research that might help correct your ignorance on this subject

WADA
MLB Steriod Policy
Infinite Number of Steriod Possibilities coming

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Feb 11, 2009 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Well said...

it’s incredibly naive to assume that the implementation of urine testing has curbed PED use. BALCO should illustrate that, as Bonds, Sheffield, Giambi, and Marion Jones should illustrate. The testing is a good step, but the reality is that the testing will always be chasing behind the users, as there’s more profit in developing the steroids than there is in developing the techniques to identify the steroids.

To say that player X is clean because he came up after the implementation of the PED policy is overlooking these facts.

by SouthernCub on Feb 11, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Sandman & Unit

Mariano Rivera
Randy Johnson

by Zonk on Feb 11, 2009 4:18 PM CST reply actions  

David Wells and Rod Beck

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Hall and Oates

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 11, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Captain & Tenille

Must have been using SOMETHING!

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 11, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Crimson and Clover.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. - Dave Barry

by zm1217 on Feb 11, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Bert and Ernie

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I am going with Abbott and Costello

I mean they did not know even know who was on first for Christ sake.

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Feb 11, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, and Abbott's reaction to Costello's matter-of-fact responses?

Pure ’roid rage.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 11, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

lennon and mccartney

come on, those guys were on dope.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Feb 11, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions  

more like Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Feb 11, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Cheech and Chong

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Turner & Hooch

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Feb 12, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

BJ & the Bear

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 12, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Benny and the Jets

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 12, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Benny & Joon

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Feb 12, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Ren & Stimpy

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 12, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Sonny & Cher

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Feb 12, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Starsky & Hutch

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 12, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Bartles & Jaymes

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 12, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Martini & Rossi.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 12, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Martin & Lewis

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Feb 12, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Rowan & Martin.

Different Martin.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 12, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Baker and Neifi

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 12, 2009 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

You win.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 12, 2009 6:33 PM CST up reply actions  

The sportswriters.

After all the sanctimonious crying for asterisks, the waxing nostalgic about how their childhood heroes did it the natural way, the judgemental and vindictive outing of sealed results and testimony -

After all of that the big shocking Act III reveal is that the sportswriters themselves were using the whole time – without their knowledge!!!!

by Wreckard on Feb 11, 2009 4:52 PM CST reply actions  

As natural

as a Greenie can be I guess…

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Feb 11, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I am going to have to say

MAN RAM

"I'm an escaped car thief. I broke out of prison to see the Cubs in the World Series." - James Belushi in Taking Care of Business (1990)

by brownbuddha on Feb 11, 2009 4:58 PM CST reply actions  

I don't think Manny could do anything...

…to surprise anyone anymore. He could show up to play in a pink tutu and all the announcers would say is, “Do ya think it’ll affect his batting stance?”

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 11, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Like I said above

I don’t think Manny could stick to a roid cycle. He just doesn’t have the attention span.

Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.

by nji232 on Feb 12, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

I know we are talking about current players, but...

Cal Ripken Jr. would be devastating to the game of baseball.

by Tate491 on Feb 11, 2009 5:08 PM CST reply actions  

Why? Would that make people stop going?

About the only thing that can be “devastating” to baseball is another work stoppage…the rest of this stuff is just that…stuff.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 11, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Ripken

He was a big part of an entire generation coming back to baseball after the strike. His record helped spark the popularity that baseball currently enjoys. You’re right, its just stuff, and I guess devastating was a strong word, but a lot of people began following baseball during Ripken’s record chase and his appeal was that he did things the right way.

by Tate491 on Feb 11, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Same for Ryne Sandberg...

… who called out the steroid users in his Hall of Fame speech.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 11, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

and Dawson

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Jose Macias

Because imagine how bad he would have been w/o the juice.

by digitalbenjamin on Feb 11, 2009 5:10 PM CST reply actions  

but he was awesome

in Winter Ball

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 6:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Kinda like Cedeno.

Maybe PEDs are why he tends to overslide…on a walk.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by daver on Feb 12, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Does baseball test in the offseason?

I have always thought that players that aren’t US citizens have an advantage. They can go home to the DR, or wherever, and juice up in the offseason. Do they test in the offseason? Much easier to obtain the drugs outside the US, and easier to hide your usage of them.
And, as far as my eye test goes Pujols is doing something. People used to say you need real proof. Well, that was said about a whole lot of guys. A-Rod, Tejada, Bonds… Well, they all were using. How about a guy like Brian Giles that got super huge? He may be a bum, but Jose Canseco has been right a lot more than he was wrong it seems.
I hope all the names come out. Maybe then baseball will deal with the issue, instead of just putting on one band aid after another. Baseball needs a cathartic moment.

by Nibbles on Feb 11, 2009 9:34 PM CST reply actions  

Yes, the CBA has random, off-season testing in place.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Feb 12, 2009 9:17 AM CST up reply actions  

With Clemens in hot water for perjury about his use

does that officially make Maddux the best pitcher of his era?

I am sure there could be arguments made for others, but I would have to say Maddux should be crowned.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 11, 2009 10:35 PM CST reply actions  

I did not

take time to read all 131 comments. So if this is mentioned ignore me or forgive me. I would be more surprised at how many fringe players would be on that list. It is a shame to think that because a player of fine caliber had been using. How many players that barely would make a roster took ’em? Maybe more than we would think.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Feb 12, 2009 8:41 AM CST reply actions  

The magic list of 104 will most likely contain

about 80 useless names, but its those 24, or 23 since we know A-Rod, that everybody is going to want to hear.

Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.

by nji232 on Feb 12, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

I keep coming back in thought to this post and am thinking it's

more of a type of player.

I don’t want to point fingers, but any player that was a defensive, speed, singles player without much power for more than a few years and became a station to station HR hitter is already suspect. There are many examples of this with players who “changed their workout habits” in the late 90’s.

Guys that started hitting for power and average are less suspect to begin with. Mays, Mantle, Jackson, fit this mold and so did A-Rod.

by N Oakley on Feb 12, 2009 10:12 AM CST reply actions  

Really, A-Rod was the worst-case scenario.

A-Rod was the great hope for a “clean” player to erase the false stats achieved over the last 15 years and bring some integrity back to baseball’s record book.

Now that he’s gone, we may have to wait for a long time before Bonds’ HR record is eclipsed by a clean player. It’s heartbreaking.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Feb 12, 2009 1:35 PM CST reply actions  

That's what I was starting to

say above when I became distracted at work.

by N Oakley on Feb 12, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

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