Who would you rather have at third? ARam or Arod?

by wfree0104 on Feb 12, 2009 10:05 PM CST

With Arod switching from the US team to the Dominican team, and Aramis Ramirez already comited to play in the WBC I began to wonder who people would really rather have. Thinking back a couple years ago, before the Cubs resigned Ramirez, and the Yanks resigned Arod, when Lou was signed to manage the Cubs alot of people wanted Arod over Ramirez. Even before the recent steroid issues I would argue that Ramirez is the better player for the money. Since being traded to the Cubs in 03 in my opinion Ramirez has been one of the best at his position in baseball. I don't know how he dosen't get much attention playing in Chicago, but somehow he tends to go unnoticed nationally.

Steroid issues aside, at their current saleries who would you rather have at thrid for the Cubs?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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A-Ram

I would take him for his clutchness and his pretty underated fielding. I may be a little biased but he doesnt have one of those huge contracts but always has great season. He is one of the most consistent run producers in the game.

by Aramis Ramirez on Feb 12, 2009 10:09 PM CST reply actions

Got a bad rap

When DLee went down in 05 and he didn’t carry the team on his shoulders. However, he has done nothing but put up solid numbers year in and year out and one of the best clutch hitters on the team.

I’d take Ramirez just because he’s never messed with that old hag Madonna (I’m only 26).

by walsh2317 on Feb 12, 2009 10:10 PM CST reply actions

My bad

Meant 06

by walsh2317 on Feb 12, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions

Great in the the clutch in the regular season at least.

If only he weren’t 0 for October the last two years. Of course, he’s not alone in that regard.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 13, 2009 12:17 AM CST up reply actions

HAHAH

Arod hands down. I mean i love Aram as much as the next guy..but…

by xene on Feb 12, 2009 10:11 PM CST reply actions

but is he worth 10 mil+ a season more than Ramirez

by wfree0104 on Feb 12, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions

and those 10 mil are coming out of your pocket?

by xene on Feb 12, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions

If you buy tickets, in a way, some of it is.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 13, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions

I wouldn't take A-rods contract

even if we didn’t have Aramis. One play can’t win you a championship. I’ll take Ramirez and whoever else we .got with the extra money that it would cost to get A-Rod

2008 National League Central Division Champs!!!!!

by BradB311 on Feb 12, 2009 10:21 PM CST reply actions

play= player

my bad

2008 National League Central Division Champs!!!!!

by BradB311 on Feb 12, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions

It's a dumb scenario

for these reason. You are comparing apples to oranges. If I had the Yankees payroll, of course I would take Arod. If you are asking who is the better player, dollar for dollar…AROD! If you can afford it…

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Feb 12, 2009 10:26 PM CST reply actions

I was going to say the same thing but I thought I'd check to see if someone else said it first.

If I have the Yanks payroll I take Rodriguez and Ramirez so I can play Aramis in the playoffs. We all know how ARod plays October. I once saw a tshirt at Wrigley, it said “Mr. April, Miss October” in Yankees colors. Loved it.

Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.

by Bricks and Ivy on Feb 13, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions

Did you know?

That Aramis Rameriz post season numbers are: 0.194/0.299/0.433

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Feb 13, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions

True.

However, before 2007 his numbers were .250/.353/.591 in 44 at-bats.

Those two bad years really dropped his numbers. They could go back up just as fast with a good postseason in 2009.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 13, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions

And A-Rod's numbers

Have been dropped by his terrible last 2 post seasons as well.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 13, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions

A few years ago

There were rumors every year A-Rod might get traded from the Yankees. This was in 2005, 2006 and 2007. I always thought we could send Aramis and Zambrano to The Yankees for A-Rod.

Now I’m glad we don’t have A-Rod. Without even divulging into the whole steroid issue, Aramis is cheaper and unfortunately performs just as well as A-Rod in October.

by ak123 on Feb 12, 2009 10:33 PM CST reply actions

What would you rather drink, André or Cristal?

by Wreckard on Feb 12, 2009 10:43 PM CST reply actions

A-Ram at third

A-Rod at short!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Feb 12, 2009 10:44 PM CST reply actions

But then

you lose the scrappiness.

If John Paxson were a Greek hero he would be known as Sans Testicles

by wennington4 on Feb 12, 2009 11:27 PM CST up reply actions

Scrappiness to second base.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Feb 13, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions

A-Rod in a heart beat!

They both suck in October but A-Rod’s numbers are WAY better,

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Feb 12, 2009 11:45 PM CST reply actions

This one really isn

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 13, 2009 12:21 AM CST reply actions

't really close

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 13, 2009 12:21 AM CST up reply actions

In eight out of thirteen full seasons in the majors, A-Rod has outhit A-Ram’s best season, according to OPS+.

Let us be very clear here – there is a very credible arguement to be made that Alex Rodriguez is the greatest baseball player that any of us will ever see in our lifetimes, and it’s possible that he is the greatest shortstop of all time. By which I mean like ever. There is not enough Winstrol in the world to change the fact that he’s one of the greatest to play the game of baseball.

The same cannot be said of Aramis Ramirez.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Feb 13, 2009 12:57 AM CST reply actions 6 recs

+1

rec’d

by socalbob on Feb 13, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions

Too truthy

Why let facts get in the way of a good argument?

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Feb 13, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions

Facts . . .

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 13, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions

as much as we all love aramis

its just silly for someone to pick aram over arod. i love ramirez but come on now, when it comes down to it, very few people have been as productive or as consistent as arod. if aram was able to be productive in the playoffs then maybe yes, but both are mediocre at best during the playoffs, therefore arod>aram

by cubbyblu on Feb 13, 2009 4:12 AM CST reply actions

Im Arams biggest fan

I’m Aramis’s biggest fan but would take Arod although I would take Aram and a 10 million dollar SS over Arod and Theriot.

I consider Aram one of the most underrated players in the game and I appreciate the fact you only hear from him when he hits the game winning homerun. He’s in the Dawson/Sandberg etc category of “speak softly and carry a big stick”.

Barbara V. October 14, 1941 - December 19, 2008. A great lady who was a friend to all and like a second mom to her children's friends (she was my best friend's mom)

by puckishcubsfan on Feb 13, 2009 6:26 AM CST reply actions

while i think

arod is the better player, ramirez is who id take. now im sure ill be called biased but look at all the crap arod puts his teammates through. the dude is a drama queen, its “oh me and jeter arent friends”, its madonna, its steroids. distraction distraction distraction. its crap. plus, with the game on the line in the late innings and the cubs need a big hit, i want aram, not arod.

by MDavis on Feb 13, 2009 7:15 AM CST reply actions

I, too, would rather cheer for Aramis.

He’s not smarmy and brings far less baggage than Rodriguez.. I realize I’m in the vast minority here (maybe a minority of one), but I’d rather lose with players I like than win with a bunch of jackasses.

by Zonk on Feb 15, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, you're going to be in the minority on that

Cheating is one thing — just being a jackass is entirely another.

Since I’m not going to dinner with the team, winning is fine with me.

By a lot of accounts, one of the most popular Cubs in the last 30 years, Mark Grace, is also a big jackass. Chances are, among the 25 players to break camp, there will be some jerks.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 15, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions

Maybe primadonna is a better word...

Don’t get me wrong; I’m not expecting every Cub to be a choir boy on and off the field. I’d just prefer to avoid players that bring drama everywhere they go due to their own selfishness (eg. Bonds, Clemens, ARod, etc.) Mark Grace may have been a jerk and/or a jackass in his personal life (eg. his slumpbusting habits), but that didn’t constantly surround the team with drama. When I follow the Cubs I want to feel like I’m watching a baseball team, not reading People Magazine. Thus, I would prefer Aramis: not as good, but in my opinion far more enjoyable to root for.

by Zonk on Feb 15, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions

Ok, fair enough

It is entertainment, after all, so I see your point.

You’re probably still in the minority, though.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 16, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions

ARam is better in the post season..

nuff said

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 13, 2009 8:55 AM CST reply actions

Seriously?

Happy PCR Day, everyone!

by daver on Feb 13, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions

No

Ramirez – 199/244/433
0/12 in 07, 2/11 in 08

Rodriguez – 279/361/483

by dr stabbingworth on Feb 13, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions

That's what I thought...

…though I’d point out that this may be another apples vs. oranges thing, because ARod has 147 postseason ABs vs. Aramis’ 67.

Happy PCR Day, everyone!

by daver on Feb 13, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions

DOH

I stand corrected.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 13, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions

Wrong.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Feb 13, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions

Is this even a question?

A-Rod. The best player in the game.

Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Feb 13, 2009 9:42 AM CST reply actions

It's a loaded question...

…because it essentially pits reputation vs. results. Now I love Aramis – we all love Aramis. Aside from the cockfighting thing and some occasional (and questionable) “doggin’ it” around the basepaths, he’s given Cubs fans relatively little to complain about. He’s quiet, low-key, likeable – and he hits well (career OPS+ 113) and appears to play a decent enough third base (though his career UZR/UZR 150 numbers look pretty ugly).

Meanwhile, ARod is ARod – arrogant, exposed juicer, consorter with creepy insectoid pop stars, yadda yadda. But ARod’s results are indisputably better in every conceivable category (or at least those I looked at).

So you have to ask yourself – do you want the good guy who’s good at baseball or do you want the bad guy who’s better at baseball? As much as I like Aramis, I’d suffer through ARod’s personality flaws to watch him help the Cubs absolutely dominate the National League offensively. (Disclaimer: This is pure fantasy. I’m not factoring salary or contract terms or some outlandish trade scenario into my assessment.)

Happy PCR Day, everyone!

by daver on Feb 13, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions

seriously,

Its nobody business if what he does in the offseason.

by xene on Feb 13, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah, but it still rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

Cockfighting, I mean.

Happy PCR Day, everyone!

by daver on Feb 13, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions

TWSS

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Feb 13, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions

"creepy insectoid pop stars"

And it’s daver FTW.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Feb 13, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions

Considering salary?

Aramis. Not considering salary? ARod, hands down. If you’re tossing salary out the window, then you’d be a complete fool not to say ARod.

by kanderber on Feb 13, 2009 10:04 AM CST reply actions

No question ARod's the better baseball player.

But if we had signed him years ago, and he had played great here, and he had even brought us some championships, I’d be hanging my head in shame if he was wearing Cubbie blue when all this stuff came out.

I wanna win as much as anyone else…but at what cost?

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Feb 13, 2009 12:00 PM CST reply actions

Well . . . .

Sosa corked a bat, Fergie used drugs, Hack Wilson was a drunk, etc.

I’m not saying knowingly go get the worst citizens, but you go with what info you have. Baseball wise, Rodriguez is clearly better.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 13, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions

And the Sosa thing was terrible.

I was watching it on TV in St Louis and I wanted to crawl into a hole. And had the Cubs as a team accomplished anything extraordinary during that time they would have been called into question.

Drugs and alcohol don’t help you win championships like steroids do. They hurt your chances, in fact.

I understand what you’re saying, but I’d rather not win than win with known, admitted cheaters.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Feb 13, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions

Fair enough

The Sosa thing was 2003, by the way.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 13, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah.

And something else broke my heart far more than Sosa’s corked bat…

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Feb 13, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions

"I'd rather not win than win with known, admitted cheaters"

You’ve gotten your wish for the last 100 years. Better the Cubs should keep losing with players that haven’t “admitted” they’ve cheated.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Feb 13, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions

So the ends justify the means?

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Feb 13, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions

yes

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Feb 13, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions

In a word: YES.

I hope you never wanted the Cubs to acquire Brian Roberts last season, he’s an admitted steroid user. Oh, No. You either want your team to acquire the best players available in order to win or you are rooting for some idealized version of reality to occur. The goal is to win the World Series not to field a team of boy scouts that claim they’ve never used steroids. There is no “right way” to win just winning and losing. Do you think there is a single team in the last ten years that hasn’t had a player on the roster that’s used steroids at some point? You may not like it but it’s the reality of the game. You should be rooting for a t-ball team if you want to root for a team that’s “clean.”

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Feb 13, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Yes

You think there aren’t players on the current roster that have used PEDs? I can almost guarantee you there are so you may not want to root for this team. I hope you argued against the Cubs acquiring admitted steroid user Brian Roberts last season. There is no “right way” to win, just winning and losing. You either want your team to acquire the best possible players in order to win or you are rooting for some idealized version of reality.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Feb 13, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions