Soriano NOT Batting Lead Off?
by lswaidz on Feb 16, 2009 3:52 PM CST
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PrintAccording to an article on chicagosports.com, Lou is thinking about moving Soriano out of the lead off spot. Followed, of course, by the usual Pinella bush beating-around...
“You know, I’m not going to throw out the possibility of throwing Soriano in on that mix either,” he said. “We’ll see how it works out… We can play around with that a little this spring.”
The article can be read here. Please note it is Paul Sullivan, so read with your usual grain of salt handy.
Personally, I'd like to see someone else batting lead off, but statistically Soriano hasn't been a BAD lead off hitter. I think you'll find he has the best production from that spot, but given the offensive capabilities (theoretical, of course) and run-scoring potential of this team, he'd be better serving batting clean-up, or even in the 3-hole. How would this affect the team? Only time would tell, but it looks like Lou is at least OPEN to the possibilitiy of trying some other people in that spot throughout Spring Training. Also note, Lou called Mike Fontenot "Little Fontenot." More on this to come, I'm sure.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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personally
I keep him there unless we acquire someone more fitting to lead off, there was some crazy stat last year or two years ago that showed how much better the team is with Sori leading off.. coincidence or not I keep him there barring the addition of another player.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
+1
Unless Fukudome suddenly shows he could be a leadoff hitter, but he’s not my idea choice, either.
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Feb 16, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
+1
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
THERIOT
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
he is a good 8th place hitter batting a 2nd lead off hitter in the order
he is not a good base runner.
I like Fontenot or Fukudome/RJohnson
Fonty actually is a very good baserunner.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Yea Theriot isnt a great base runner but...
His OBP is sick… thats what you want out of a leadoff guy.. no need for power.. just get on base and let the big boys drive you in.. his OBP shows he can do that
WOW WHAT A SEASON!
by SouthsideCUBSfan on Feb 16, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
you are mixing ingredients with results
you want lead off hitters to score RUNS…..OBP is part of the opportunity but not the result.
One of the reasons why Lee might have many DP’s is that Theriot was on 1B when Soriano was on the DL…..
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Look across the league...
The majority of leadoff men are guys who hit singles and doubles, work the count, get walks, dont strike out… not guys that hit Homeruns and strikeout.. thats meant for deeper in the lineup… It is unbelievable that people find a way to blame DLees double plays on Theriot. Theriot gets a hit, and yet that becomes a bad thing because a line drive hitter like Lee hits a slow dribbler to an infielder.. its Lees job to move him over or drive him in once he is on base. Plus, if Theriot was a leadoff hitter we wouldnt have been in the DP Lee situations as much because Theriot would be batting a couple spots up.
WOW WHAT A SEASON!
by SouthsideCUBSfan on Feb 19, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
Reason
This is likely due in part to the fact that Soriano has hit so abysmally at other spots in the line-up. He has been more of a hinderance than a benefit to the club when he hit 2-8.
In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband
Something to consider
We don’t really have another true leadoff candidate besides Soriano (as odd of a leadoff hitter he would be) but think about this 3-7:
Dlee
Aramis
Soriano
Soto
Game Board
Now if that isn’t a potent offense I don’t know what is. That could be in the top 10 in the league if you ask me, if not the top five. That’s an offense I don’t want to face as an opposing hitter. Problem is, who do you put leadoff now? Theriot? I love having him in the 8 hole actually, and sometimes the 2 hole. Fontenot seems like a good candidate for the 2, he’s good at contact and has pop. Reed Johnson then? He didn’t have much success at it last year with Soriano out.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
either way
i believe the cubs have have probably one of the top two best offenses in the league..
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
NL that is
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
According to the article
it sounds like Fontenot/Miles/other 2nd baseman are the best candidates to fill that particular slot. Depending on who wins out the center field job, Joey Gathright could be a decent lead off guy… and who knows, maybe Fukudome will have evolved as an MLB player a bit and can produce more consistent numbers and be considered for that role. Either way, I don’t think it would hurt the Cubs to move him out of that spot… however, I’m not sure how much it will help them given their current roster.
if soriano does move down
man will i miss those lead off homers he gave us at times haha..
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
Joey Gathright is a fifth outfielder.
He does not hit well and would not be a wise choice to hit anywhere above seventh in the lineup.
"[It's going to be] a long, long spring. I will get tired of the prickly pear margaritas." - Lou Piniella, 2/16/09
if he gets 125 AB's this year we are in trouble
again one of the players who starts with the letter F
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Do you know what you are saying?
Gathright as a leadoff hitter. Please look at his career numbers. Speed does not make a leadoff hitter.
THERIOT
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Why would you want
the worst hitter in the lineup getting the most at bats?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
he's hardly the worst hitter
least power, sure
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Who is the worst hitter?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Ted Lilly
is probably batting ninth again.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Feb 17, 2009 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
You know DGU there are statistics and then there is reality and then there is IF
If I could paint the world and IF was reality Fukudome is probably the real player that Piniella and Hendry would like to see be the lead off hitter. Now he has to perform and not like August of September but this would lead right into the platoon system they are envisioning.
If Fukudome is actually a 100-120 game player, possibly overpaid but still here and still someone who carried a .400 OBP through the All Star break last year, where against most LHP’ers R Johnson gets a start in CF and at the lead off spot which he does rather well in spot duty.
Now Theriot is someone to respect getting much more out of his ability than most players on the team but he is a singles hitter—-mostly to right field and he is not a good base runner even though he appears fast. His defense is full of all out effort but comes up short with him having to muscle up with every throw—-he is a very good 3rd utility player to push the starters but is a liability if he is a full time starter.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
It's not that big of an insult
to say someone is the worst hitter on the best offensive team in the NL.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Where's Riot's best hitting position?
I think it’s either 2 or 8 in some sort of our lineup.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
If you think he's our worst hitter
then 8 is much preferrable to 2, because he will bat less than the better hitters.
On the other hand, if you think he’ll be a .380+ OBP source w/o power (basically what he was in 2008), then 2’s not bad, because he does set the table (so long as he isn’t allowed to attempt steals).
I think Kosuke and Theriot will be battling it out for who hits 2nd and who hits 8th. Hopefully one of them can manage that nice .370+ OBP. If Kosuke can rebound, the Cubs will have a strong 1-6. If Kosuke rebounds and Fontenot can bring 2/3 of what he brought in 2008, the Cubs will have a deep lineup. If Kosuke rebounds and the Cajuns both maintain, we are going to eat through some bullpens and it won’t matter how Lou fills out the lineup card.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 18, 2009 12:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Theriot
said today he’d love to be a lead off hitter, and thinks he could steal 30+ bases if allowed to run. To that I say great, 30 steals in 70 attempts… Ricky Henderson 2.0. You know, my basset hound could be a greyhound if I let her run, but I like to keep her on a short leash, just so she remembers who the boss is.
I'd keep him in the eighth spot...
…and, assuming Soriano stays the leadoff hitter, bat Fontenot second.
"[It's going to be] a long, long spring. I will get tired of the prickly pear margaritas." - Lou Piniella, 2/16/09
I wonder if Lou is really going to bat
Dome 7th and Riot 8th. I have a feeling Fontenot will be 7th, but we’ll see.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
I think Riot should be 8
and Dome 2. Mixes up the L/R order and allows LBR to be moved around depending on the middle of the lineup.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
The thing about Riot's hitting
is that he punches so many of his hits through the right side. So, having him bat after Soriano is kind of a waste given that Soriano is one of our hitters least likely to be on first base by the time Theriot gets that hit. I’d much rather see him at 8 for that reason.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Swap Lee and Bradley and you're on to something.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
i think
milton bradley also made that game “aggravation” lets hope we don’t have to give him that name mid season
I think Lou said that...
…as a preemptive move to try and stop reporters from asking him about his freakin’ leadoff hitter for the next six weeks or so. Seriously, he said something yet absolutely nothing all at the same time. He’s very good.
"[It's going to be] a long, long spring. I will get tired of the prickly pear margaritas." - Lou Piniella, 2/16/09
did you see him on ESPN last night
asking for a multiple choice as to who the president was in 1908, this was the first time i saw him on TV this spring, i love the man he cracks me up
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
MURDERER'S ROW!!!
The one reason i really would like to see Soriano move down is simply the murderer’s row, i mean who would have a better middle of the order than
Aramis Ramirez
Milton Bradley
Alfonso Soriano
Derrek Lee
Geovany Soto
With guys like Theriot (.307), Fontenot (.305), and Miles (.317) settin the table for those bats we could be in line for an awesome summer.
No offense...
but you can’t really compare ANY team to the ‘27 Yankees… I mean come on, 110-44 record, 975 runs scored (6.3/game…wow) and outscored their opponents by a combined 376 runs (still a record, I believe). I’d write up a good comparison, but it’s not worth it… so just go read this.
Here's the problem... stop me if you've heard this before...
that’s too many RH’d batters in a row. Our whole off-season revolved around not having too many good RH hitters next to each other in the lineup.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
true
how about resigning Edmonds by June 1st and installing him between Sori and Lee?
we got lucky with Edmonds last year
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
We'll see.
I don’t believe Fukudome’s 2009 chance will last that long.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Just leave him there for crying out loud
he only “leads off” once a game
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
+1
Just as the left-handed shenanigans have garnered too much attention, so does this leadoff scenario. Now, I’m not saying I wouldn’t welcome a guy like Roberts, but as our roster stands now It’s hard to make a case for dropping Sori down. As you said, he only “leads off” once a a game.
http://thegettinplace.blogspot.com/
yeah, the front office has been a bit myopic this offseason
but Soriano batting leadoff should be the least of their worries
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
is it really?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Feb 17, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, it is
He’s going to average more than 1 inning/game leading off, obviously. He’ll have the highest % chance of leading off an inning picked at random.
Because he bats behind #8 and the pitcher after his first AB, he’s less likely to come up with RBI opportunities. There is a reason why leadoff men generally don’t lead the team in RBI.
He’s no longer the same threat on the bases that he used to be and certainly isn’t going to disrupt a pitcher’s concentration as much.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 17, 2009 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Here are the options.
Theriot, Fontenot, Miles, Johnson and Gathright.
Theriot
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
52 227 37 71 17 1 1 17 16 21 6 2 .313 .357 .410 .766
Fontenot
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
9 28 3 4 2 0 0 3 0 6 0 0 .143 .143 .214 .357
Miles
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
206 863 119 235 30 8 8 70 41 86 14 7 .272 .305 .353 .658
Johnson
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
413 1603 264 461 88 8 36 177 99 288 18 14 .288 .350 .420 .770
Gathright
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
73 269 33 61 5 2 0 19 15 53 18 5 .227 .279 .260 .540
Then you got Soriano at
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
700 3037 526 891 205 13 183 425 198 668 154 47 .293 .342 .550 .893
I believe Theriot should be given a shot at the leadoff spot. Fontenot hasn’t played enough games at leadoff really consider if, so unless he gets a lot of practice at it during Spring Training I doubt we’ll see it this season. Johnson strikes out too much and will be splitting time with Fukudome so he wouldn’t a full time lead off. Miles is the second best out that bunch because of the walks he takes. Gathright won’t be starting any time soon so hes out. So it comes down to either Soriano or Theriot. I personally would like Theriot given more time at leadoff moving Soriano down to the 3 spot and moving DLee or Bradley to the two spot.
If Miles bats leadoff, I might skip the 09 season
thats a Dustyesque move
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Agreed...
I’d argue that Miles is the worst leadoff option of any of the 9-10 guys who have a shot at the starting lineup this year. I’d put him ahead of only Gathright (and that’s a maybe) and Hill/Bako on the roster.
I actually think we have lots of potential leadoff types. If Theriot and Fontenot can hit like they did last year (or even remotely close), they get on base enough to be okay/good there. If Fukudome can get the average up over .270 (given that he’ll take a ton of walks), he’d seem like a very good option there.
That said, I’ll believe that Piniella is going to move Soriano from leadoff when I actually see him commit to doing it.
well Miles shouldnt even be near a full time player
that job should be Fontenots to lose
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I agree.....
Theriot did one hell of a job when Sori was injured last year
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Fonzie should be hitting 6th or 7th
against rhp. Last year, he was 252 / 319 / 460 vs rhp. Not leadoff material. Not 3 hole material. 6th or 7th in a good lineup. Quit coddling this guy. He can’t field, can’t bunt, not sure he can run anymore, but he murders lhp. But he is only adequate against rhp and we all need to acknowledge this.
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
This is the 100,000th post on this site on this topic. You qualify for special awards. Unfortunately, not a $10 gift card.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
In the poster's defense
There was an actual story written about it. I think it’s a legitimate topic.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 16, 2009 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
Just in case
Jake Peavy
Brian Roberts
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 16, 2009 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
Peavy to lead off, and Roberts as our 5th starter?
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
The retired pitcher, or ESPN anchor?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 16, 2009 9:05 PM CST up reply actions
Retired pitcher
Yeah, he’s a Phillie, but he is a HoFer. Of course he’s also 82… hmm… maybe we should go for more experience and see what Bob Feller’s doing…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Hudson
"[It's going to be] a long, long spring. I will get tired of the prickly pear margaritas." - Lou Piniella, 2/16/09
Ernie Hudson
From the Ghostbusters movies? I bet we could get him… dunno how good he’d be at the top of the order, I think he’s kinda old.
Hudson Hawk
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
WIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNN-STOOOOOOONNNNN
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 17, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed...
It’s an overdiscussed topic, but at least this time there’s a basis for the discussion.
Sweet!
I finally decide to swing back by BCB and I win a freakin’ prize??? This really is the best website EVAR.
btw, it was in the news, and I was blessed by the topic on boers and bernstein on my way home from work… it’s not like you can escape it :-)
LOL
That’s why I put the sarcasm indicator there.
It’s an overdiscussed topic; why it was brought up again, even by Lou, is beyond me. Maybe he just wants to give us something to talk about.
Prediction: on Opening Day, Soriano will be leading off.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I'm still tryin..
..to figure out how this team was improved in the off season. Milton will be a great addition but losing Derosa is huge. Hope I’m wrong..
I just want it to be known...
…that this is ACTUAL NEWS! THE SEASON HAS STARTED (SORT OF…)!! NO MORE JAKE PEAVY OR BRIAN ROBERTS POSTS! WE GET TO TALK ABOUT REAL EVENTS THAT OCCUR ON A DAILY BASIS!
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
I saw a story on ESPN about Jake Peavy and Roy Oswalt being friends.
Clearly this means that Peavy desires to play in the Central. So I’m pretty sure that he’s going to be traded to the Cubs. I’d like to discuss this with you all at length now.
;-)
(And yes, this is facetious.)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 17, 2009 1:41 AM CST up reply actions
or maybe it means
Oswalt AND Peavy want to play for the Cubs this season
(pure sarcasm)
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
If soriano deosn leadoffmy lineup vs rh's would be
1. Theriot (I want to vomit for writing that)
2. Lee
3. Rammy
4. Bradley
5. Soriano
6. Dome
7. Soto
8. Fonty
This is becuase split up the lefties and dome cant hit eight.
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
if this was last year, i would agree.
but we already picked up another power bat. if we take him out of the lead off spot, the means either he, Lee, Ramirez, or Bradley will have to bat 6. I dk, i guess we could put Lee 6. But I dk, we have such a good lineup its hard to decide whats BEST
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...
Cubs were about 30 over 500 with Soriano leading off
and we have enough guys who can drive in runs that we are not in need of moving him down the line up. is he the ideal laed off hitter, no we all agree there, but so be it.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I think they are trying to make the move somewhat diplomatically, or at least
provide the option. Soriano’s a good hitter and his value at lead off is primarily due to that fact. He doesn’t walk much but he has excellent power. I’d like to see him bat down with a hitter who has at least as high of an OBP but with a greater contribution from BBs in that spot.
i personally like soriano leadng off
compared to anyone else on the roster.. BTW he was o a pace for 43 HR if he wa s healthy. I think this is the year hes healthy and he does some amazing stuff. We havens seen the best of Alfonso. I am BCB Soriano fan #1…
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
Soriano will be the leadoff man unless Gathright emerges and takes over center field
Which, with all due respect to Joey Gathright, is doubtful to happen.
I’ve learned a long time ago that Sweet Lou says a lot of things during the winter and spring. But don’t expect to see anybody but Soriano as leadoff hitter. One, there isn’t another brilliantly obvious answer to serve as leadoff hitter. Two, Lou unfortunately feels the need to handle Soriano with kid gloves.
Gathright? kind of like Mora saying Playoffs!
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
The biggest lineup issue should be appropriate slotting of Milton Bradley
Bradley bats left, can flat out rake, gets on base and I believe can win the National League batting title. I want Bradley to bat third, but I’m guessing that isn’t going to happen.
NINETY SEVEN WINS
sheesh.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
Drew, that logic is awful
By that logic. one could argue that the Cubs are doomed, because they won the division every year that Jason Marquis was on the roster.
There’s nothing wrong with disagreeing, but you’ve gotta bring more to it than that if you want to be convincing.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 17, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind this lineup... If Fukudome could pick it up
Fukudome
Lee
Aramis
Bradley
Soriano
Soto
Fonty
Theriot
Pitcher
I swore I wouldn't do this...
…but I got inspired this morning and wrote a long post about this topic over at Bruce Miles’ blog, so I’m going to share my thoughts here, too.
Assuming Lou does drop Soriano in the lineup, the question obviously becomes, “Who should replace him in the leadoff spot?” Here’s what I would do:
vs. RHP
1. Fukudome CF
2. DLee 1B
3. Bradley RF
4. Aramis 3B
5. Soriano LF
6. Fontenot 2B (I might flip-flop Geo and LBR here if Soto is hitting better)
7. Soto C
8. Theriot SS
9. Pitcher
vs. LHP
1. Johnson CF
2. Miles 2B (not crazy about this, but he has a rep as a contact hitter and, because he and Bradley are switch hitters, the Cubs could instantly vary their hitters if a RHP is brought in later in the game)
3. Aramis 3B
4. Bradley RF
5. Soriano LF
6. DLee C
7. Soto C
8. Theriot SS
9. Pitcher
Why Fukudome? Fukudome ranked No. 1 among starting right fielders in pitches seen per plate appearance last season (4.29) and, despite his last-half-of-the-season swoon, still turned in a .359 OBP. He’s not a huge steal threat, but he’s a smart runner and bunts well. Obviously, he needs to prove he can rebound and hit major league pitching consistently, which, admittedly, is a big question mark in my plan.
Why Reed Johnson? RJ has a remarkable .376 career OBP vs. LHP. He saw only 3.75 P/PA last season, so he’s similiar to Theriot in that sense. His five stolen bags in six attempts doesn’t exactly scream great baserunner either, but I think he’s a smarter and more aggressive runner than Theriot. (See his key DP breakup vs. Milwaukee late last season.) Oh, and at least RJ has some pop.
Why not Theriot? You mean besides the fact that, despite his lofty BA and OBP last season, he still couldn’t crack a .750 OPS? Well, I’m just not sold on Ryan Theriot the baserunner. Plus, he saw only 3.77 pitches per plate appearance last season. Compare that to “freeswinger” Alfonso Soriano, who saw 3.73. Yeah, Theriot beat him, but not by much (.04). Keep him at the bottom of the lineup.
Why not Aaron Miles? Like Theriot, Miles has never really shown himself to be a particularly good hitter (.693 career OPS). His relatively high OBP last season still just scratches the bare minimum of what you’d want from a leadoff guy and doesn’t change the fact that he has .329 career OBP. In addition, Miles has little to no speed. He stole three bags in only six attempts last season. In short, he really is just a utility guy – let’s not get carried away thinking he’s the second coming of DeRo (who arguably could’ve hit lead off).
"[It's going to be] a long, long spring. I will get tired of the prickly pear margaritas." - Lou Piniella, 2/16/09
I like the idea of Theriot
8th. Assuming his OBP continues, the pitcher can move him over.
If Dome is thriving, plug him in the leadoff and leave him there. If he’s platooning, with Johnson, maybe LBR needs to leadoff.
I like
3 Ramirez
4 Bradley
5 Soriano
6 Lee
7 Soto
Just to pick minor errors, I’m surprised to see Lee slotted as a catcher in your lineup. :P
Oh, and post foul on the whole double posting content contamination thing.
Hey now, I specifically rewrote/revised this post...
…from the original version on BMilez blog. And I guess DLee is a bit tall to be a catcher, isn’t he?
Fontenot is an interesting choice for leadoff. He had a hell of a OBP last season (though in limited ABs) and he saw 3.97 pitches per PA, which is nice, too. I’d just be afraid Lou would put Miles in his place vs. LHP.
"[It's going to be] a long, long spring. I will get tired of the prickly pear margaritas." - Lou Piniella, 2/16/09
Yeah, I'd like to see him there...
…if Soriano sticks in the leadoff spot.
"[It's going to be] a long, long spring. I will get tired of the prickly pear margaritas." - Lou Piniella, 2/16/09
Yawn
Personal opinion? That Lou Piniella knows full well that Alfonso Soriano will be his leadoff man in 2009 and right now is simply indulging those screaming for Soriano to move down in the lineup. Sweet Lou is adopting this lab experiment during spring training so a few weeks from now he can say, “see folks, I told ya Soriano is the best option for us to bat leadoff.”
Ryan Theriot batting leadoff? Kosuke batting leadoff? C’mon. Lets get serious here. This is one of Lou’s patented ruses to get the pesky media off his ass.
I actually think you're right about this being one of Lou's stratagems...
…but, for some reason, the caffeine hit my brain this morning in such a way that I started thinking “what if…” Obviously, installing Kosuke in the lead off spot would require either some evidence (or at least a strong belief on Lou’s part) that he’s now capable of adapting to ML pitching.
But if Kosuke can do it, I’m starting to think that his best path for success with the Cubs is to abandon any pretense of bringing Matsui-like power to his game and simply focus on working counts, making contact, keeping up his OBP and running the bases well. (Oh, and maintaining his solid D, of course.) If he can do that, I think he’d be a good leadoff guy – still not an ideal leadoff guy, because I don’t think Kosuke will ever be much of a base-stealing threat, but a good one nonetheless.
"[It's going to be] a long, long spring. I will get tired of the prickly pear margaritas." - Lou Piniella, 2/16/09
I agree.
I think the scenarios in which Soriano doesn’t lead-off are very limited and as you’re about to see, very unlikely:
1) Gathright wins the CF job.
2) We sign Orlando Hudson to play SS.
I won’t be surprised if Lou bats Soriano lower in the order on the handful of days Gathright spot starts.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Lou is acting like a guy who is done with outside pressures getting to him
Sweet Lou has been VERY flexible, accomodating and gracious of late. To the point where I think it is Lou adopting his personal defense mechanism to deal with outside pressures that exasperate the piss out of him. He really is acting like a guy who is sick and tired of what he views as the b.s. of the job. But in the end he will continue to make the decisions that he thinks are right by the ballclub.
I can see that.
I always thought he played games in his press conferences. He’s a wily one.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
3)
Roberts trade?
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I said "very unlikely"
not “completely unlikely.”
Realistically – at this point – why trade for Roberts when you can sign Hudson on a one-year deal?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Wait, so you really think Lou would put Gathright in the leadoff spot?
"[It's going to be] a long, long spring. I will get tired of the prickly pear margaritas." - Lou Piniella, 2/16/09
I believe the center field job is more wide open than people give it credit
I also think that Joey Gathright will be given full shot to show what he can do. It is a mistake to automatically pencil in Kosuke as the starting center fielder, or to presume that Kosuke and Reed Johnson will play in a straight platoon. I think Lou is sending clear signals that there is a job to be won in centerfield.
I have to agree with you here...
A lot of people said the same thing about Reed Johnson when we picked him up… there was a lot of grumbling and questioning the sanity of Hendry. How’d that work out? Gathright is statistically VERY similar to Reed prior to coming to the Cubs… so who knows, maybe that “change of scenery” theory actually means something? Or maybe he’ll be a miserable failure and play in AA… I’m not psychic.
+/- 1
this is an interesting ordeal we have in CF. One speedster, one who has a cult following and wanted to be here enough that he paid his own way for a fast tryout last ST, and one who is paid more than the other two combined, and is in need of proving his off season adjustments made the needed stride.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I'm not so sure RJ and Gathright were all that similar.
Reed Johnson’s OPS+ 2004 – 2007
2004: 79 (537 ABs)
2005: 96 (398 ABs)
2006: 124 (461 ABs)
2007: 66 (275 ABs)
Gathright’s OPS+ 2004-2007
2004: 53 (52 ABs)
2005: 76 (203 ABs)
2006: 61 (383 ABs)
2007: 88 (228 ABs)
So Johnson got more ABs and outperformed Gathright every year before joining the Cubs except ’07, when he was injured.
Also, I don’t recall anyone questioning Hendry’s sanity for picking up RJ. IIRC, it was almost universally regarded as a remarkably good pickup – decent defender who scalds LHP and plays hard, very much beloved by Toronto fans.
Joey Gathright is basically an older Felix Pie without the upside. He’s strong defensively and fast on the basepaths, but notoriously weak with the bat. In other words, he’s a fourth or fifth outfielder. I’ll be shocked – shocked – if he wins the centerfield job coming out of spring training.
"[It's going to be] a long, long spring. I will get tired of the prickly pear margaritas." - Lou Piniella, 2/16/09
by daver on Feb 18, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If he wins he CF job he either found a really good designer steroid or
the Cubs will be a fith-place team. Either scenario spells trouble.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Feb 18, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
Rec'd w/ an exception
Saying Gathright is “basically an older Felix Pie without the upside” is like saying Ryan Theriot is basically an older Troy Tulowitzki without the upside.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Yes.
If Gathright wins a starting job, it will be because he’s hitting like Ryan Theriot did in 2009 – high OBP, no SLG, basepath mayhem. Gathright really has a chance to go Theriot on us, except with solid defense.
I’ll make this bet (betting 100 BCB points) – Joey Gathright hits RHP better in 2009 than Ryan Theriot.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Hm, I hadn't really considered that...
…but I don’t suppose it’s out of the realm of possibility. Gathright did put up a .371 OBP in 2007 (granted, it was in only 228 ABs, but still…). I always think back to Scot Podsednik with the White Sox in ’05 – not a particularly good player in the long-term sense, but he had that one killer year in which his high OBP and speed on the basepaths really made a difference for that team.
If Gathright could somehow prove that he’s capable of getting on base at a regular clip (and I never thought I’d say this, but here goes), maybe he would make a good leadoff man and full-time centerfielder. Then Lou could use RJ and Dome off the bench as spot starters and defensive replacements for Soriano and Bradley, respectively. Kosuke’s salary would still really hurt in that scenario, but he still might get a lot of playing time as Lou rests The Game as much as possible.
I don’t feel like any of this is likely to happen, but it’s interesting to consider.
"You've got to earn winning your division. We won more games than anybody in the National League last year, and we're going to have a target on our back, so we've got to be ready.'' - Lou Piniella, 2/17/09
In Gathright's favor
are the league change and a hitting coach who will encourage the 2007 style of hitting Gathright was able to do for a brief time. He could easily land a Fontenot-style role (w/o any of the Fontenot power) and be a productive member of the club. I’m sure Lou would love to have a LH lead-off man.
That said, there’s just as much chance Gathright is nothing more than a short delay to So Taguchi time.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
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