BCB FanPost/FanShot Location
by Al Yellon on Feb 17, 2009 5:49 PM CST
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PrintThere has been some discussion about how to get FanShots more visibility here. It was suggested in one of the posts that I could move FanShots to the left sidebar, making them more visible.
Leave your thoughts in the comments to this post, and also vote in the poll, and I'll go with the majority sentiment.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Left sidebar = excellent idea.
"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry
If they are on the left sidebar,
More people should see them-leading to more use!
great idea
Oh Baby!
IMportant Note/Question
If moved to the left side will we be able to see them while viewing a different fanshot/fanpost?
This is my favorite thing about the current build of the website seeing as other sites can not see the fanshots on the right while viewing the posts/shots.
What to do, with Larry Hughe?
I'll leave them where they are on the interior page...
… since there is only one sidebar there.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I think they
are fine where they are now.
by sue369 on Feb 17, 2009 6:21 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
It would be worth experimenting
and putting them on the left sidebar. Too often we see fanposts that are duplicating fanshots that already exist.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
Why not try it...
you can always put it back if it doesn’t seem to work, or if we all hate it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 17, 2009 6:29 PM CST reply actions
Who are you and what have you done with Chad?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Ah, a democracy in action
good poll…. In the tradition of IL politics, Al can I pay you to vote my way?
why not
let us all vote 8 times
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
Suggested Fanshot Improvement
It would be helpful if image and video fanshots were allowed to have a title. Most of the time I can’t tell what these are about without clicking on the image or video.
Al Spangler
by AlSpangler on Feb 17, 2009 8:38 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
Send this suggestion to...
… support (at) sbnation (dot) com
Put “Feature Request” in the subject line along with a description of the feature you want.
They WILL look at these, and there are changes coming to FanShots (No, I don’t know what they are yet), and this is a good suggestion.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Done and done. Recommend AlSpangler's comment and email SBN if you want to see this!
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
My two cents...
I like how it’s setup now — more newsworthy “fanposts” are above the less newsworthy “fanshots”. If you put the fanshots on the left, across from the fanposts, I think that’s just going to lead to more confusion.
Yeah, I can see that...
…Back when we had just “Diaries”, there were a lot of random, non-Cubs diaries with media included. There were also one or two sentence comments that were great ideas, but not necessarily worthy of a complete post. I think FanShots has helped separate those thoughts.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Exactly.
That’s why there are two “sections”, because as pointed out somewhere else, there have been some FanPosts that are padded out to the 75 words with “PEAVY PEAVY PEAVY”, or something like that.
The point of the FanPost is that you should put at least 75 words of thought into it. The point of the FanShot is, “Hey, I found this link/video/photo/whatever, check it out!”
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Leave it...
There’s already a bunch of useful info on the left sidebar I don’t want to see go any further down the page, mainly the W/L stats, playoff hopes, next game/tv, etc.
The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.
Leave it
Right now it makes sense where it is and all it would do is compress the reading page between two columns. Fan posts tend to be more permanent in nature and fan shots more temporary. Plus how hard is it to scroll down just a little bit.
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
The problem is some (many) don't scroll down to see Fanshots
and post the same thing in the Fanposts, sometimes a day or two later, then the Fanpost gets all the attention (comments) while the Fanshot sits there like Scott Eyre in the Cubs’ bullpen.
"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."
I don't think that moving fanshots over will help that
Users will still double post.
The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.
by sanantonecub on Feb 18, 2009 8:24 AM CST up reply actions
Agree
I posted a fan shot about Selig yesterday that I thought would spark some conversation…I got one post.
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Feb 18, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
I could, but...
… FanPosts are supposed to be more substantial, so I think they should get more prominence.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Unfortunately, that's a SBN built-in.
I, personally, wouldn’t even bother having it, but it’s not my choice.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Question?
If we move them to the left, will they show up when not on the home page. For example, on this fanpost, there is nothing on the left side. I know that I navigate from post to post a lot of times without going back to the home page. I am afraid that if you don’t make them available on the left side on every page that we could go to, the fan shots are going to get less and less notice.
What if we moved the Recent Fan Posts to after the Fanshots such that the Fan Posts and Fan Shots ran together given the appearance that they were one in the same.
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
I see you answered
my first question above….sorry for the repeat.
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Feb 18, 2009 8:33 AM CST up reply actions
An Opinon from a User Interface Designer:
I’d suggest NOT moving FanShots to the left nav because… BCB has trained it’s users to look in the right hand navigation to find the recent/new content that gets posted on the website.
I’d guess that many users don’t look at the left hand navigation on the daily basis, because we don’t have too. Content there does not change enough to need to.
Hence I think moving FanShots to the left hand navigation would not help the problem (and in actuality, I don’t think there is one. You should not design your website around users you refuse to scroll on a blog website like this).
Thus endeth my speech. Amen.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Feb 18, 2009 8:38 AM CST reply actions
Hmm, that is a good point.
My initial, gut reaction is to vote to move Fanshots to the left side, where they’ll be more visible. But another side of me agrees with digiben – why should we redesign the site for users too physically lazy to simply scroll down or too mentally lazy to learn and adapt to all of the site’s functions? Sorry if that sounds kinda harsh; I just think if one intends to spend any significant amount of time here, it’s worth the effort to learn – and keep learning – about ways to best use the site.
As long as that fan doesn’t do any of the bulleted items I mentioned above, the fans of the "home team" should grow a pair and be able to take it in stride.
Reduce or remove the 75-word minimum in the Fanposts?
and keep Fanshots for images, videos, or links to such.
People are adding meaningless words to reach the 75-word minimum anyway.
"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."
Better yet...
put a sign on the clubhouse wall, umm, I mean a line of text prominently displayed on every FanPost creation screen that anyone who uses meaningless words in order to meet the 75-word minimum will have their FanPost banned from BCB and permanently ineligible to be recommended. ;-)
Al, I understand if you don’t want to play the heavy in this effort, so I suggest appointing Worf as the FanPost Czar. I’m sure he will mete out justice in a fair and even manner…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Would that be like an un-Rec?
10 un-Rec and your post is banished?
"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."
Here's what SBN said to my comment:
Second, a feature request: In FanShots, can image and videos have a title? It would be nice to be able to give a description or comment about what we are posting. Thanks.
Dan,
This is a great idea for a feature request and I will add it to our list.
Thanks,
Chris
—
SB Nation
support@sbnation.com
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Thanks!
See, I told you they were responsive.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
They should've...
…done this a long time ago. The lack of title creates a reading disruption, plus why bother looking unless you’re teased with a little title? – TL
Sure, they *respond* quickly....
But whether or not we see it is a different matter ;). I’m still waiting for the option to always have the fanposts in the “classic” style instead of the message board view… recommended immediately after the change, received positive feedback from the SBN crew and still nothing.
(In all reality, I understand these things take time, and SBN is a great site overall :-) )
The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.
by sanantonecub on Feb 18, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Trial Period
Why not move Fanshots to the left for one or two weeks to let readers get comfortable, and then solicit reactions? – TL
The poll seems to indicate the majority want to see what it's like on the left.
I’ll give it another day or so, then maybe move it as a test.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
What about BCB mobile?
Do you know if they have plans to be able to see Fan shots on the mobile version?
Or the ability to comment?!!!!
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
These things are on the list of feature requests.
… hopefully, they’ll get to it. That list is pretty long, as you might imagine.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Is "Get rid of them" and option?
Fanshots and diaries are not sufficiently different from one another to justify the existence of both.
It doesn’t matter where you put them, people will always get confused as to which one to use.
I've explained the difference before...
… and yes, they are sufficiently different. Here is a complete explanation, in case you missed it when I posted it (This is also permanently on the left sidebar)
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Your explanation basically boils down to this:
“Diaries have more words in them”
Get rid of the arbitrary length requirement and there’s no difference at all. I get the rationale, I really do, and I would actually buy that explanation if the layout here was similar to, say, Goat Riders of the Apocolypse, where every fan diary became a front page article (note: I am not advocating that in any way. That would be an atrocity.)
But since both end up as lists of links in the side navigation elements anyway, the distinction gets a lot blurrier.
If it were my site, and I was going to try and keep these elements distinct, I would probably put them in the same list, just with different icons. Why should I have to look in two different places when they both serve the same utility?
Not my site though, just my $.02.
It's more than that.
A FanPost is supposed to be something you actually think about and write something, your own thoughts or an idea. Ideally, they would be MORE than 75 words — that’s just a minimum.
A FanShot is supposed to be, “Hey, look! I found this link/photo/video, it’s cool, check it out.”
See below, as it’s described much the same way by others.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Right, simply put...
…a Fanpost should be YOUR OWN content, a Fanshot should be SOMEONE ELSE’S.
So posting a link and a couple scattered thoughts followed by “needwordsneedwordsneedwordsneedwordsneedwordsneedwords” as a Fanpost is archly lame.
"You've got to earn winning your division. We won more games than anybody in the National League last year, and we're going to have a target on our back, so we've got to be ready.'' - Lou Piniella, 2/17/09
I agree that some people will probably always confuse them...
…but I think that has more to do with laziness (on the part of those who spend any amount of time here) and unfamiliarity (on the part of everyone else).
I was snooping around over at Beyond the Box Score yesterday and found this post, which I thought concisely sums up the distinction between Fanposts and Fanshots. (The explanation Al provides above is also very good.)
In short, a Fanpost should be an article – something you actually spend some time writing and revising, and which you hope will spark a lengthy discussion. A Fanshot should be more along the lines of, “Dude! Check this out!” That doesn’t mean discussions can’t happen in Fanshots, it just means they’re more about other people’s content, whereas a Fanpost should be about your own (content, that is).
The only exception to this I can think of is when a big news story breaks and Al hasn’t yet covered it on the front page. In those instances, I guess I could see wanting to post something really quickly to get a discussion of the event/occurence going immediately.
"You've got to earn winning your division. We won more games than anybody in the National League last year, and we're going to have a target on our back, so we've got to be ready.'' - Lou Piniella, 2/17/09
Agreed
To me a FanSHOT is akin to calling in to a sports talk-show – you ask your question then you hang up and listen to their response.
a FanPOST would be more like you’re a guest on the show or part of a panel. You’re there because you have something of substance that you want to say about the issue at hand. Hence the 75 word minimum, which I think is a very good thing. I wish people would take it to heart instead of just blah blah peavy blahing away…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
One more question:
Doesn’t the left side bar only show on the home page?
If so, how will it increase the visibility of fanshots to only show that list on one page, as opposed to every page as currently implemented?
Yes, it does.
However, FanShots will show on the interior page as well — since there is only one sidebar there, I’d leave them there.
Make more sense now?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Gang...
We’re braking User Experience rules all over the place here. Never move navigation items from one location to another throughout the site. Put it in one place, and leave it there. We’re talking Website 101 stuff here.
(sorry for the rant, but I tend to feel strongly about these types of things)
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Feb 18, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
I prefer that it remain where it is
but it looks like the vote is going the other way. Oh well, I’ll adjust.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
After all, this game is all about adjustments.
"You've got to earn winning your division. We won more games than anybody in the National League last year, and we're going to have a target on our back, so we've got to be ready.'' - Lou Piniella, 2/17/09
If I move them ...
… which I haven’t done yet, waiting for more votes — and it proves to be a bad idea, I can always move them back.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
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