Trader Hendry Sends Wuertz To A's
by Al Yellon on Feb 2, 2009 12:35 PM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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PrintJim Hendry, barely taking a breath today, sent another pitcher to the American League. This also answers the question, "Who replaces Rich Hill on the 40-man roster?"
photo via cache.daylife.com
The Chicago Cubs today acquired outfielder Richie Robnett and infielder Justin Sellers from the Oakland Athletics for right-handed pitcher Michael Wuertz.
Robnett, 25, was selected by the Athletics in the first round (26th overall) of the 2004 Draft and has played the last five seasons in Oakland's system, advancing as high as Triple-A Sacramento. The left-handed batter and thrower was a Texas League mid-season and post-season All-Star with Double-A Midland in 2007 when he batted .267 (131-for-490) with 39 doubles, 18 home runs and 74 RBI in 120 games to earn a promotion to Triple-A for the second season in a row.
In 2008, Robnett was limited to 82 games due to early-season surgery to remove a tumor from his stomach. Upon his return, the five-foot-10, 212-pound Robnett spent the majority of the season in Triple-A and hit .236 (49-for-208) with 15 doubles, three home runs and 19 RBI. In five minor league campaigns, Robnett has hit .256 (444-for-1732) with 114 doubles, 58 home runs and 252 RBI in 449 games.
Robnett has been added to the Cubs' 40-man roster and will report to major league spring training later this month. Sellers will report to minor league camp.
Sellers, who turned 23 yesterday, was drafted by Oakland in the sixth round of the 2005 Draft. He spent an entire season in Double-A for the first time in 2008, batting .255 (112-for-439) with 15 doubles, eight triples, six home runs, 46 RBI and 10 stolen bases in 123 games for Midland. The five-foot-10, 155-pounder tied for third in the Texas League in triples and tied for 12th with 72 runs scored.
A middle infielder, Sellers played 63 games at shortstop and 60 games at second base in 2008. In four seasons in the Athletics minor league system, Sellers has played 285 games at shortstop and 128 games at second base. The right-handed batter and thrower has hit .256 (385-for-1504) with 70 doubles, 15 triples, 15 home runs and 145 RBI in 417 games.
I know nothing about either of these guys, and despite Robnett making the 40-man roster, he has little chance of making the team out of spring training. This probably gives Angel Guzman a better shot at the bullpen.
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Geez
Id really like to know what all these moves mean. It really seems like Trader Jim has a master plan in place. Or at least I hope so.
I think this is more of a cleaning out of Lou's least favorite players
Seems like his doghouse will start spring training with only Fukudome in it.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
by nji232 on Feb 2, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
There has never been a master plan.
They’re winging it.
Fortunately, they’re winging it with a very large payroll. But still, the Cubs aren’t making moves with the idea of making further moves down the line.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree.
The guys traded this off-season were mostly predictable. Even DeRosa was somewhat predictable after Fontenot’s season and the stated desire to get more LH. These are guys out of options who the Cubs didn’t want to invest more playing time in.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Do you think that all of these moves are a precursor to anything?
I certainly don’t.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
This move was transparent from two angles
A) Wuertz was ineffective in Lou’s eyes and put down to AAA last year.
B) the numbers on the roster as they are forming where Guzman, Gaudin, Snyder and Hart are vying for that spot.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Yep
People keep suggesting this is a precursor to some other move. I think it’s a precursor to fixing the financial situation for 2010 and getting some talent in the minors while ejecting some players Lou doesn’t like.
by dr stabbingworth on Feb 2, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
Fix the '10 finances?
With these moves?
Naw, fixing ’10 would be moving the salary of any of the following: Rami, Lilly, Domer, Fonzie for instance. Those 4 guys alone should have a ’10 salary combined of over $50M.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
its hard to fix the 2010 financial situation
when you keep trading guys that don’t have a contract for 2010….
by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 2, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
A move doesn't have to be a precursor
to be following a plan. Wuertz is simply not part of the plan.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
Idk about all of this
Wuertz could of had some value, but IIRC he was in the doghouse. At least we got two somewhat decent prospects for him.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
well...
I suppose this could be construed as stocking the farm-system.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
So does this bring about the Cubs
signing Juan Cruz, the best remaining FA reliever?
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
No.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
We've got a lot of RH relievers already.
We didn’t move Wuertz to make room for someone. We moved Wuertz because we didn’t want him anymore. He’s this year’s Will Ohman.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
They moved Wuertz because
he’s out of options and the Cubs saved over $1M in salary.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Wuertz is only making 1.1 M
so, we can only save 700 K trading him. It wasn’t the money; it was the inconsistency.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Are either of these guys going to
be on the 40-man? If not, they don’t count against the Cubs payroll. IIRC only the 40-man roster counts towards the MLB teams’ payroll numbers. Otherwise, they have to purchase that contract from the minors.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
The lefty outfielder was on the A's 40-man
I think therefore, he counts to ours I believe.
Again, dont quote me on any of this.
by northernsails on Feb 2, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
The press release says Robnett goes to the 40-man roster.
He will wear #19.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Somewhere Hector Villanueva is shedding a tear...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
What about Matt Murton?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
My Ex-Cub Lugnut Bobblehed Collection
continues to grow Al! First Cedeno, then Hill and now Weurtz. Added to Patterson and Pie, it’s getting damn impressive…in a perverse sort of way…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (Now #12,966 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list- UP from 13,031...WHOO HOO!)
That wouldn't be a bad idea
But it does cost a draft pick I think. Personally that doesn’t bother me, but it might bother the Cubs.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
Juan Cruz is not worth a 1st round draft pick
I think Hendry has been careful to protect his draft picks recently.
by dr stabbingworth on Feb 2, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Thats fine too
Cruz probably isn’t worth the pick, but at the same time I wouldn’t be upset if we signed him.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
Yes
That’s why nobody has signed him yet.
by dr stabbingworth on Feb 2, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Would've been nice to have kept Cruz
Instead of trading him for nothing to Atlanta.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
This is only my opinion
but I think Beimel is the best still available.
I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!
I think Guzman was more or less a lock anyway.
Proud to say I saw this trade comin’ a mile away. Good luck, Michael.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Geez, someone needs to take Hendry's cellphone away from him
I think Wuertz is extremely underrated and would probably be much better than Guzman. People don’t like him because of his last name.
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
This whole doghouse crap, if true, is getting to be as annoying as Dusty's horses crap
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
I think people make too big of a deal out of it.
Lou doesn’t use players he distrusts in high leverage situations. This is a good thing.
We might not always agree on his criteria for choosing the trustworthy players but it’s not a bad way to work.
He doesn't use them in MOST situations
That’s the issue — there is little to no chance to play out of the doghouse.
That’s why they “NEED” 12 pitchers — because there is always one or two that never pitch.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
A valid point, but then
why keep them on the roster?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
We didn't
We just traded him.
During the season someone like Wuertz is the less of all available evils. It’s hard to trade for relief help mid-season, and last year we didn’t have a lot of depth in the farm system.
I don’t doubt that’s part of the logic behind the Derosa trade – get a bunch of live arms in the minors for those situations. Last year if we’d have traded away Wuertz it would’ve been to replace him with Hart or Pignatello and I don’t think even Lou would think that’s an improvement.
Your points are valid - but here's what frustrates me.
It’s not just high leverage situations Lou keeps his distrusted players out of. I think there was a 10-game stretch last year where Wuertz never pitched. Meanwhile, Marmol was brought into blowouts.
Managers SHOULD have guys they trust more and lean on more. But letting Scott Eyre pitch in some blowouts might have given us a clue that he could have been an effective lefty for us down the stretch… and when looking at a lineup with Ethier and Loney in it.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
You stated it better than I did
Hell, how many games would have made sense to have a 3-inning reliever, yet Lieber pitched 1 or 0 innings?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
No vacuum
Who said that automatically Guzman is substituted for Wuertz? Was that written somewhere?
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
isn't that kind of given? Who else would replace Wuertz?
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
The Shark?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
eh, I would have taken Wuertz anyday over Vizcaino
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Probably Triple-A...
To get stretched out for a possible starting role?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Feb 2, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
TBD
Hendry isn’t done yet. Could be someone makes a huge stride in ST. Could be another trade, could be Vizcaino for all I know. Could be Guzman like you mentioned. Who it is, is we really don’t know.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
I would agree that Wuertz is underrated.
And I’d further agree that, for the same reason many Cubs fans love Micah Hoffpauir, they hate Micahel Wuertz. But Lou seemed less than enthralled with Michael, and it’s doubtful Wuertz would’ve gotten anything more than an occaisonal mop up appearance with the Cubs.
And so departs the Slider Specialist. I’m neither overjoyed nor hearbroken by this loss. (Oh, and I’m curious about the two new guys, of course.)
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Recent trades
I understand that Wuertz, Hill, Cedeno and Pie are all out of options players, but wouldn’t it have be prudent to hang on to some of them through spring training in case of injuries?
Not that I think Wuertz is that great
But he certainly wasn’t decent. Really, I am just more perplexed and confused (as with almost every move this offseason), because of the value we got in return. Are we really looking for minor league outfielders/infielders with moderate success it seems? Maybe we are. I guess I just dont know.
Good riddance
We’ve known since the end of the season that Michael Wuertz was a goner. And I say good riddance. Wuertz was frustratingly erractic. Not surprisingly, Lou Piniella lost faith in his ability to get outs. Cubs are blessed with better options than Wuertz to round out the pen. At least Hendry was able to get some apparent value from Oakland.
Makes sense
We’re overloaded with righty pen arms. This also gives David Patton a better shot. I think Angel Guzman is in unless he just totally and ridiculously flames out, considering he’s also out of options. The return was about as much as we could expect for Wuertz. I think he was always overly bashed by Cubs fans, but his control issues would be an issue for Lou. We save a few bucks as well.
Sellers is the intriguing asset for me, despite Robnett going on the 40 man. Sellers is a plus defensive shortstop with offensive issues. He’s never put it together offensively, although there are some tools to work with, including some decent pop in his bat (relative to his size and position). In some respects, he’s like a guy we have in Darwin Barney. Considering how valued shortstop talents are, it’s worth a gamble, considering Barney is the only guy in our system worth pondering in the upper levels, with Castro and Ju all the way down the ladder. Sellers has a good shot to start at AAA, with Barney perhaps slated for Tennessee (with Samson perhaps at Daytona and Castro perhaps at Peoria).
Robnett reminds me a bit of Brad Snyder, another guy we picked up this offseason. Toolsy guys with too long of a swing, and he K’s too much. To me, it’s just AAA depth.
_____________________
I’m reading some of these comments as they come in, and I want to emphasize two things. We are saving some cash on this, and pen arms with control issues don’t net as much. I think Wuertz was overly bashed, but his value wasn’t that skyhigh to expect that much more than Robnett and Sellers.
_____________________
If I was pondering my top 50 list, I would have Sellers make it for his value as a defensive player. Robnett would probably be on the outside looking in.
by toonsterwu on Feb 2, 2009 12:51 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
REC'd and on the mark
There are many items here. Wuertz was in that No Man’s Land where he had not moved up the hierarchy ladder of his role. He had a good year in 2007 where he had a string of Holds and inherited runners that he stranded——good fireman but last year his slider slipped and his FB was hittable.
Now the SS is what is needed and he is still relatively young. The trade by subtraction also saves $700K if the Cubs replace the spot with a league minimum in Guzman or Hart. Guzman has got good stuff and if he has control could be a real good fireman. This is a peripheral move and it will make the bullpen know that performance and your ticket to stay is here.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Just a Comment about Darwin Barney
I noted your comments on Barney above. The Cubs apparently think highly enough of him that he was in tow at the recent Cubs Caravan. I discussed Barney a bit with Oneri Fleita at the Caravan. They feel is in an up-and-comer in the system, with pretty decent tools. They do have him slated for AA this year.
Barney
has a solid glove for shortstop, by most accounts. He’s a fairly athletic kid. At worst, I think he could make a career as a utility infielder. There’s enough hope that he can take a few steps forward offensively to be decent for the position.
I agree
Robnett is minor-league fodder and I’m not sure why he’s on the 40-man. I’ve seen him play in Sacramento and honestly, I don’t even remember him. Couldn’t tell you a thing about him—just a name on my scorecard. When there’s a guy in the minors who can’t even make a bad impression on you, that’s a problem.
Sellers is interesting and has the potential to be a leadoff or #2 hitter in the majors. He seems to have the Oakland good patience and has some decent speed, stealing between 10 and 17 bases every season.
Sellers’s a longshot to make the majors in my book, but he’s a good longshot to take. Especially since Wuertz didn’t really have a future here and doesn’t have much trade value. And as you say, our system is crawling with right-handed relievers.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 2, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Robnett and Sellers
Robnett was probably a case of a former first round pick getting the benefit of the doubt more than other guys would get. He has always been toolsy, but like another guy we picked up in Snyder, their swings are bleh and they lack the plus recognition to compensate. There’s an outside chance that Robnett, who is, by most accounts, solid in CF, could perhaps play some role, but a lot of bad things would have to happen for us to turn to him. As noted, I think he’s fodder as well, although he’ll probably attract the attention in this trade, at least, publically.
I haven’t heard many people suggest that Sellers was a top of the order hitter … unless he can really take advantage of his tools and take steps forward offensively. Right now, he seems like a bottom of the order hitter, a number 8 guy in the NL. I’d like to see him slap the ball around more than lifting it, so it’s not impossible that he develops into a top of the order guy.
Probably a lower guy
But he draws some walks and has some speed—that’s a recipe for a top of the order hitter IF he can actually hit. Of course, I kind of doubt that he can, so a bottom of the order hitter is a lot more likely.
Comparison
Player A – Paid 1.1 M in 2009
Career ERA 3.57
Career K/BB 2.11
Career HR/9 0.93
Career WHIP 1.35
Player B – Paid 4.2 M in 2009
Career ERA 4.00
Career K/BB 2.25
Career HR/9 0.82
Career WHIP 1.32
So, the question is would you trade Jose Ceda and 3 M for Richie Robnett and Justin Sellers?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
But you didn't do that.
You traded Ceda for Guzman. Gregg (the 4.2M you’re talking about) replaces Kerry Wood.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I already had Guzman.
The argument I’m making is that Wuertz = Gregg.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Gregg if anything equals Kerry Wood
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Exactly.
If Wuertz=Gregg, then Guzman=Wood and you’ve saved $10 million there.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
But why trade Ceda for Gregg
if Wuertz = Gregg? Why not keep Wuertz and save another 3 M?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Well, I wouldn't have done it.
And I’m not saying any of these players equal ML production of the others. You started the discussion by saying you traded Ceda and picked up $4.2M (Gregg) and the two minor leaguers.
Point being, you cannot view any of these transactions in a vacuum.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Not viewing them in a vacuum is precisely what I'm trying to do.
I’ve always thought Wuertz was a decent part for our ‘pen. He needed regular work or he’d get too rusty, and that was annoying, but he was valuable if used right.
Kevin Gregg is a lot like Michael Wuertz – walks too many, can be maddeningly inconsistent, but a decent RH reliever who has his uses.
In a vacuum, I’m not opposed to dumping Wuertz. In a vacuum, I’m not opposed to getting Kevin Gregg. It’s when you dump one player and overpay for the same type of player that the whole process gets frustrating.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
I hate trading Ceda to Florida.
Florida always makes out well with young arms in trades.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
Gregg is not in the same league as Wood
(pun intended I guess). Wood’s WHIP is much lower; his strikeout rate much higher. He’s a different class of pitcher.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
same production though, especially if Gregg becomes the closer, which I hope he does..
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
No, that's my point.
The production level of Kerry Wood is much higher than the production level of Kevin Gregg. Much, much higher.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Same production in what sense?
Wood’s level of production, both last year and for his career, is substantially better than Gregg’s. It’s not really comparable.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
Please stop that
To suggest that Kevin Gregg is direct replacement for Kerry Wood is disingenous. It’s ridiculous the extreme bias you have against Gregg, to the point where it has removed objectivity in the matter.
This has nothing to do with bias.
It has to do with a comment DGU made, about Ceda and $4.2M (Gregg’s contract) netting two minor leaguers. That isn’t right. Gregg replaces Wood, thus “saving” $5-$6 million.
Guzman replaces Ceda, essentially, plus you get the two minor leaguers.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Let me ask it this way, then.
What makes Kevin Gregg more qualified than Michael Wuertz to “replace Wood”?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Sheesh.
It’s not “replacing” him! YOU made the argument above! YOU said that Gregg was replaing Wuertz!
My head hurts. I’m giving up this part of the thread.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Sorry for the confusion.
I tried to explain it more clearly above.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
I think it boils down to ML experience, plain and simple.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Agreed
before we decide he is good, bad, ugly, lets let him throw a warm uppitch in a Cubs uniform.
As Cub fans, we have a bad history of making our opinioins about players before they even step off a plane once as a Cub, and this is a perfect example of it.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I stated no opinion of Gregg here, only tried to explain DGU's argument.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
as I said last week
Hendry is in trade mode, adn there would be three more moves (that was right before the Hill deal).
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
Don't strain yourself
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
The list
Arrivals likely to make the 25 man roster out of spring training? Bradley, Gathright, Miles, Bako, Heilman, Vizcaino. Beyond that Hendry acquired an assortment of semi-prospects and suspects during his off-season purge campaign. I’m okay with all the moves with exception of Mark DeRosa. That one is going to sting for awhile.
I am with you
on DeRosa, his versitility was important and the guy really was one of the best Cubs we had last year.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
DeRosa Had To Go...
… he was one of three guys who you could have moved. He, Harden and Marquis. Harden wasn’t about to go anywhere, and Marquis is gone.
People keep saying this
but the fact is that the money saved going from DeRosa→Miles doesn’t even cover the “upgrade” going from Wuertz→Gregg. So, here’s another question to ask – would you rather have DeRosa and Wuertz or Miles and Gregg?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
Money Wise...
… you’re right. DeRosa/Wuertz ($6.6M) is close to Miles/Gregg ($6.2M). But, the frame of the question isn’t fair.
For one, DeRosa is not being replaced (entirely) by Miles, but rather LBR. Money wise, that’s significant. Offense-wise, DeRosa had more power than LBR. Defensively, LBR was better than DeRosa. I think LBR will be getting better, where DeRosa will be in decline.
For two, Gregg did not replace Wuertz, either. Wuertz is likely replaced by a tandem of guys that are already on the team… my guess is that Guzman is closest.
Lastly, these trades cannot really be compared unilaterally. The folks that we got back for DeRosa may / may not be here to stay. Let’s rate how the club looks overall when we are ready to start the season (or better yet when the disposition of Peavy is known).
Shell Game
This shell game of who replaces who has been used up and down this thread (by posters other than initram) to make moves look better than they are.
Let’s tease this particular one out.
DeRosa is not being replaced (entirely) by Miles, but rather LBR.
Well, who replaces LBR then? Oh, that’s right, Aaron Miles. If you think Fontenot is better than DeRosa, then start Fontenot and make DeRosa your utility guy. Between Fontenot needing to be platooned and veterans needing to be rested, you could get DeRosa enough PAs to keep him happy enough. Plus, when Bradley goes down, you have a RF who can actually hit RHP.
So, subtracting DeRosa and Wuertz and adding Gregg and Miles, according to PECOTA’s projections has lost us 1.1 wins.
Bringing Angel Guzman and Mike Fontenot – two guys who were already on roster – in to the discussion doesn’t help matters because I could have made use of them anyway.
I agree, though, about waiting to the end to see how the club looks.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
why stop there - do it for the whole roster.
what happens when you run the PECOTA projections for all the subtractions and additions instead of just DeRosa/Wuertz and Gregg/Miles? Do we gain or lose wins? Seems to me until the season starts, that’s the only way you can assess Hendry’s offseason moves.
Clarification: Not that PECOTA is the only way – but whatever measure is used it should be applied to the whole team, not just singular positions or roles.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Good point
That will take a while to do. If someone else doesn’t do it first, I’ll try and fanpost it in the next few days.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 7:24 PM CST up reply actions
I don't get the idea
that DeRosa “had” to go. His salary was extremely fair, and with Marquis money off the table, DeRo didn’t have to go.
Freaking Aaron Miles
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Hendry is done making moves
25 man roster —
Starters — Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, Heilman
Pen — Marmol, Gregg, Cotts, Marshall, Gaudin, Vizcaino, Guzman
Outfield — Soriano, Kosuke, Bradley, Johnson, Gathright
Infielders — Ramirez, Theriot, Fontenot, Lee, Miles, ???? (maybe Hoffpauir, but I don’t think so)
Catcher — Soto, Bako
Samardzija might make the bullpen or rotation.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Which would push Heilman to the
Long Reliever role and probably have VIzcaino as the available blue light special out of camp.
Vizcaino makes too much money to move
In this economic climate nearly $4 million owed in 2009 for a mid-30’s relief pitcher will be tough sell. Too tough unless Hendry eats salary.
Which is it?
He makes too much money to move. Or, It’s tought unless Hendry eats Salary or takes nothing back.
You answered your own comment.
Hasn't Hendry eaten enough salary at this point????
I don’t think Hendry has any more appetite for gulping salary. Luis Vizcaino has a rubber arm and can help this Cub team. Jeff Samardzija can continue to develop at Triple A. He needs to work on another pitch.
What's to say enough is enough?
If Shark is the best option as the starter, decisions have to be made. If the best move is to pay salary to free up a roster spot, then so be it.
Hendry has some room in the budget, supposedly, and he get to choose how to use it.
He's not serious option for the rotation
Not until he broadens his pitching repetoire. Which is what he will do to start the year at Triple A Iowa.
He was starting before they called him up last year.
I have a hard time believing that if he has a stellar ST and out pitches his competition that he won’t make the team. The guy is making quite a bit of coin for a draft pick.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
If he does, then who drops off the 25-man roster?
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Probably Guzman.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
Nope
Angel Guzman is out of options and has too much talent in that right arm for the Cubs to let him walk away for nothing. Cubs have stuck with Guzman for a very long time.
But...
has been hurt with that right arm on more than one occasion. If he doesn’t perform well and Shark does they aren’t going to keep him.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
Samardzija
On XM this weekend one of their hosts reported that Samardzija has been told that he will start the season at AAA in order to be stretched out and work as a starter.
I'd much rather have Shark than Vizcaino on the team
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
by Chanman25 on Feb 2, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I have little opinion on the matter
It was just reported yesterday by Lee Hamilton, XM’s weekend guy on MLB 175 that Samardzija will go to AAA and start.
just stating my opinion, not bashing that..
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Not if the Shark proves himself this spring...
I think he will be a good surprise this year. That may be what they want to do but he may prove worthy.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
I've read a couple
of articles that said Jeff has been working on his pitches since he’s been off. I’m hoping for a good suprise from him too.
And he may, or may not know.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
This is the first "official" confirmation of this move that I've heard.
I agree that this is what will likely happen.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
meh, I miss last year's bullpen.
Wood, Marmol, Howry, Marshall, Samardzijia, Gaudin; That was the best in the league there
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
On MLB Network's Hot Stove show,
they flashed a stat that said the Cubs bullpen was ranked 15th in MLB.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Feb 2, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
rank? how do they do that?
How can you beat a solid 1-5 starting rotation with Shark in the 7th, Marmol in the 8th, and Wood in the 9th?
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
I think they're ranked by overall ERA of each team's pen.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Feb 2, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
eh, ERA is a bad stat for the bullpen, considering the limited number of innings pitched
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Exactly
and a run given up, was it conceeded while turing a needed and wanted DP, etc
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I was just mentioning the MLB Network had the Cubs bullpen ranked 15th.
I’m not sure what criteria they are using, I’m just assuming it’s based on ERA. They were discussing the best bullpens in 2008 and didn’t mention the Cubs at all.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Feb 2, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
Numbers game points to Sarmardzija starting the year at Triple A
Which I’m fine with. Let him work on his pitching repetoire. He will undoubtedly play a role on the 2009 Cubs at some point.
I think the Shark makes the club...
Samardzija gets the 5th Heilman in the pen.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
There simply isn't enough room on 25-man for this to happen...
…unless Vizcaino is traded.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Maybe Guzman doesn't make it.
Competition is competition. I the Shark proves his worth in ST he ma leave them no choice? Nothing is set in stone.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
Guzman doesn't make it and then what?
We cut him? He’s out of options and would have very little trade value.
You answered your own question...
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
That's silly.
Your 25 man roster isn’t always your 25 best players. There are other considerations, and one of them is options.
You don’t throw away a valuable player simply because the Shark has a good spring training. You wait for an injury and then bring him up.
You play your best players who are MLB ready.
that is not silly.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
Listen...
I am not saying that the Shark is breaking camp with the team. I am saying there is a possibility he could… Which is neither naive or disconnected from reality. The guy showed some things last year down the stretch. You talk as if the guy has no chance. That’s why they have competition in ST. Let it play out instead of calling me names.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
It's just about the best 25 coming out of Spring Training.
It’s the best pitching the organization can stockpile for the entire 2009 season. I believe I read somewhere between 20-25 pitchers are used by each team during a season. That’s why depth is so important.
If a team kept a player with options on the 25 man roster and as a result lost a player that didn’t have options, they in effect just lost a body in which they may need later in the year.
Roster management for the ENTIRE season is more important than taken the top 25 Spring Training performers.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Feb 2, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
I meant, it's NOT just about the best 25 coming out of Spring Training....
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Feb 2, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
I understand this...
They also wouldn’t let a guy who rightly deserves to be there (if he wins the job), not be there and play someone who doesn’t deserve to be there and is not performing. So if not Guzman, maybe someone else.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
And I think the ???? needs to be
Wigginton, Aurilla or maybe Nomar. They need someone to backup 3rd. Miles hasn’t done it yet so unless they think he can handle it, somebody needs to.
Agreed 100%
Micah Hoffpauir lacks the versatility and the proven pinch hitting ability to make this roster.
What is the difference between Ward and Hoffpauier?
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Experience and the ability to not swing at everything
There are not too many rookies who make any team as a designated pinch hitter.
Hoff isn't a rookie....
plus, Daryle wasn’t one of the most patient hitters either..
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Hoff has options
and can be sent to AAA in case of an injury.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Feb 2, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
As a pinch hitter...
…Ward actually drew quite a few walks. Hoffpauir has yet to show any capacity to do so. Plus, I think opposing pitchers respected Ward’s ability to hit. I don’t think they approach Hoffpauir the same way.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Ward
Ward’s OBP in 2006 was .380 and in 2007 it was .436. Ward became a very patient hitter later in his career.
True
The Chanman may be remembering Ward’s propensity for being aggressive when there were runners in scoring position, his acknowledged strategy. In other situations, he was patient and drew a lot of walks.
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
Ward is a professional hitter.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
Hoff isn't? He had more hits in less AB than Ward did last year
plus they are pretty much equal defensively..
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Hoff got his hits
but he swung at everything. When Ward is at the plate, he works the count and looks for his pitch. He was a professional who had some bad luck last year, but won us a few games nonetheless.
Hoff has talent, but is not a professional. He may become one – and if he does, he’ll be fearsome. But he’s not yet.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
but he's the best option we have as a power hitting pinch hitter right now
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
which is why I'd still be shopping...
I have no problem keeping Hoff in AAA and telling him to work the count and let some balls go by.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
agreed, if they can find a better option for backup 1b/OF
Until then, Hoff should be on the team. Too bad we couldn’t have snatched a player like Kotsay..
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Hoffpauir could just as well play at the same level of RF that he can..
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Matt Stairs is on line 2...
he’s calling to make sure you know where to send his residual check.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Matt Stairs would be great addition
Can play 1st base as well as the corner outfield. And he is Mr. Professional Hitter.
He's on the wrong side of 40
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Who cares
Matt Stairs is a proven pinch hitter deluxe. I could care less how old he is.
Stairs had a pretty sizable dropoff in production
last year. Like 140 points of slugging. Add quite a few more strikeouts in the same number of at bats and that at least has to give you some pause, considering his age.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Well he would be a hero in "boys town"
The area just south of Wrigley around Halstead & Belmont. His "nothing like getting your ass hammered " comment would mean free drinks in every area bar.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Feb 2, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Correction
Ward WAS a professional hitter.
Last season showed his time to enter coaching and no longer batting in MLB games had come.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
Ward had so few ABs that you can't prove anything from them
and he won some games for us, if I recall.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
Well, he won ONE game for sure.
The ninth-inning blast against – oh, looky here – Kevin Gregg.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Wasn't there another one at the beginning of the season
where he pinch-hit for Felix?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
Totally agree...
…but as long as the team insists on carrying 12 pitchers, there’s no room on the bench – unless Hoffpauir is sent down.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
And we certainly have a weak bench
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
I agree almost entirely.
But I think, for lack of better options, Hoffpauir will be on the bench. The only way around it is if the Cubs can acquire someone who can: 1) Pinch hit for power, and 2) Backup Aramis at third base. And, in that case, Hoffpauir must go to Triple A.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Wuertz
I know its pretty popular in Cubdom to bash Wuertz but on the whole, he was a very useful reliever and, IMO, he’s going to have a few years in his career where he’s a pretty successful 8th inning guy. Yes, he was erratic but thats the nature of relievers. He’s a guy who has kept his ERA under 4 the last four seasons and up until last season he had good K/IP totals.
The real issue, IMO, is that the Cubs traded away their best relief option that they had on their roster versus tough lefties. Cotts is not a LOOGY. Wuertz may not be a left handed pitcher but he had good numbers against lefties. I am find with this move if it means Cotts is cut loose as the Cubs sign a legit LOOGY, but we know thats not going to happen.
I don’t like this deal one bit.
by dmlichte on Feb 2, 2009 12:58 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1
Do you think the next move is adding a LOOGY, or at least another bullpen arm?
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
No.
I think Jim is done now.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Then who does in his place?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Correct...
… or an Aurilia-type. Basically a veteran who can adequately backup 1st and 3rd who can provide some pop off the bench.
Aurelia still crushes lefties too
So he’d be a great addition to the bench. He’s exactly what we need, and should cost about what we just saved by shipping off Wuertz.
nope
I think that Hendry really likes Cotts even though he’s not good. I think they’re done with the pen.
I do think we’re likely to see some minor moves, mainly the acquisition of a back-up middle infielder.
I'm gonna go on the record now
and state that I do not like what the front office has done this offseason.
I had kept my opinions to myself—mostly—since November, but if this is it, I have to say I’m not too comfortable with the state of the team going into the season. I hope I get to eat lots of crow come Summer.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
I agree 100%
I feel like we have regressed from last year. That doesn’t mean we won’t make the playoffs, but we for sure won’t win as many games this year.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
agreed
Hendry might have turned a 97 win team into a 93 win team IMHO
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
essentially the same starting rotation
We have the core bats in Soto, Ramirez, and Lee. But I think CF is weaker, RF is meh, and 2B has turned from a solid all round position in DeRosa to being just like Theriot
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Not to mention the almost certainty of regression in the pitching staff
And the injuries awaiting it as well.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
Milton Bradley won't be meh if he stays healthy.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Would Furcal?
I keed, I keed….
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
the whole "if he stays healthy" phrase is HUGE
Sure, I’d love to have Milton Bradley on the team if he wasn’t a hothead and could play in over 100 games in the OF.
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
He could very well play over 100 games...
…and I’d not make such a big deal about the hothead thing. Remember, we have a hothead at the top of our starting rotation and, for that matter, one sitting next to Alan Trammel in the dugout.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
true, but I don't trust his ability to play in over 100 games
considering he’s only done that twice in his career while playing in the OF
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
eh, well I bashed the signing of Jim Edmonds
yet he became one of my favorite players at the end of last season. So, who the hell knows?
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
11-151 isn't my idea of a good record!
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
LMAO
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I wish I had your optimism
Just losing Wood—in my oft-uninformed opinion—will cost the Cubs 5-10 wins.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
I have faith in Marmol...
Now the guy that takes over Marmol’s role is what I’m worried about.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
Am I the only one worried that Marmol's arm is going to stop working?
He pitched a ton last season, he is pitching right now in the south american league, and he plans to pitch in the Bud Selig stupid tourney.
I’m really scared that he will miss some time this year.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
No
I have cold sweats from February through October thinking about what could go wrong. Marmol is a great concern of mine; however, he showed good things in Winter Ball in the D.R. So, as of today, he’s the least of my injury-related worries.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Fortunately
Marmol has less wear on his arm as he’s a converted C, but last year he got worn down quite a bit. I’m hopeful that the more structured role of the closer will help protect his arm.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
NO
I am more worried about his mental ability to stay in the game
last season, when he was worried about making the All Star Team, he started “over pitching” and looked bad for a few games. He also was not able to put the last game behind him during that stretch IMHO
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I believe Marmol will have it easier this year mentally.
As the closer, he knows exactly when he will come in for a high leverage situation and can prepare accordingly.
As the fireman in 2008, it must have been much more difficult to wait inning by inning to see when Lou would make it happen.
So you don't think arm fatigue played into that at all?
When a pitcher, especially a bullpen guy loads up on innings, I think you have to be concerned about injury the next year. Aside from Harden, I’m most worried about Marmol as far as injuries go this year.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
That's ridiculous.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Feb 2, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
Rec'd
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
Wuertz
I know there are many that think he is underrated, but I would disagree.
He was basically a one pitch pitcher…the slider. He could get some guys chasi
What was his record for consecutive sliders thrown?
Didn’t he throw 12 straight sliders one day?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
Now I understand why the Cubs scouting staff is so much smaller than the other clubs
You sure don’t need as many scouts when you only focus on left-handed players… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I would assume Robnett has options, correct?
That would be the reason for the move, to acquire depth in the minors in case of injury of ineffectiveness?
Hey, it's a new century!
I seriously have no idea
what Hendry is doing. If we are depending on the second coming of Kyle Farnsworth aka Shark, I will pull all of my hair out.
Just the other day I saw Theriot posing on a perfect bunt. He was thrown out by 65 feet——later intentionally walked in retaliation.-Hammer
by JEROMEWALTON'SBATTINGSTANCE on Feb 2, 2009 1:10 PM CST reply actions
The Shark will likely be in Iowa come Opening Day.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
your comparing Shark to Farnsworth?
Thats your first mistake there
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
He has actually done the impossible this off-season
He’s made the major league team better while replenishing the farm.
It blows my mind that some fans can’t see this.
I can see that he's replenished the farm
And I know that Bradley has huge potential.
However, losing Woody and DeRosa, to me, makes the moves, at best, an evens-stevens with last year.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Feb 2, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
I think like most Cubs fans your love of those players is blinding your objectivity on them
The marginal loss from Wood to Gregg is less than a half of win.
Project Fontenot’s 2007 out to a full season and he and Derosa are almost equally valuable. *
*I realize there’s some problems with doing that – you’re assuming no regression from Fontenot facing lefties, though the net gain from Fontenot’s defense should help cancel some of that out. Plus, it’s safe to assume that Derosa will go back to being a 5-6 Win player in 2009 as well. Fontenot was worth 4.5 in part-time duties this year so I don’t think that’s as big of a loss as it sounds in either case.
PECOTA predicts the loss as a full win
from Wood to Gregg and when we’re talking late-inning bullpen arms, that can end up multiplying itself because of the high leverage situations.
Gregg can be a useful bullpen piece, but I continue to caution that we will end up finding him to be Michael Wuertz’ twin, both in positive value and in frustration.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
PECOTA already accounts for lower IP totals based on injury.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
No significant difference in IP
both in the 50s if I recall, which means PECOTA sees both missing time for various reasons.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
I think like most Cubs fans your love of those players is blinding your objectivity on them
The marginal loss from Wood to Gregg is less than a half of win.
Project Fontenot’s 2007 out to a full season and he and Derosa are almost equally valuable. *
*I realize there’s some problems with doing that – you’re assuming no regression from Fontenot facing lefties, though the net gain from Fontenot’s defense should help cancel some of that out. Plus, it’s safe to assume that Derosa will go back to being a 5-6 Win player in 2009 as well. Fontenot was worth 4.5 in part-time duties this year so I don’t think that’s as big of a loss as it sounds in either case.
I still believe
there is at least one move left that Jim will make before ST starts.
I mentioned before Hoff may be traded (no rumor or source, just a gut feeling) and that there were three moves yet to be made before the Hill move was announced last week.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I think more moves...
… will wait till ST, and maybe the END of ST.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
robnett/sellers
they have decent shot at being major leaguers or just AAA roster filler. with the infusion of better talent in the A’s system they got pushed down and stalled a bit. i wouldve given them up for hill, not wuertz
robnett is a wildcard because he has great tools/athleticism, but is still very raw even at age 25
by Asfan4ever723 on Feb 2, 2009 1:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I like Sellers
value for us. Outside of Darwin Barney, we don’t have another upper level shortstop, and I think Sellers starts at AAA. As an A’s fan, what’s your take on why Sellers hasn’t put it together offensively? I know I’ve seen reports indicating he has some offensive tools, but has a tendency to overswing.
As for Robnett, a year ago, I would’ve been intrigued. Now? Eh. Don’t see the big difference between Robnett and Brad Snyder, another guy we picked up, and Snyder has more raw power, I think. Robnett will get the attention, and if I’m not mistaken, he’s decent-solid in CF (right?), so he should fight Sam Fuld for time in AAA and offer an option in case Kosuke struggles.
sellers has been jerked around a bit
natural position SS, but always had to shift over due to other SS’s pennington, petit, etc on the roster. when those guys moved to higher levels his play improved for whatever reason.
by Asfan4ever723 on Feb 2, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for the insight
I think you will like Wuertz. He could be frustrating in inconsistency, but some of that inconsistency came from long stretches of sitting on the bench without pitching in games last year.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
So what you're saying is that Jim Hendry just added to his collection of aging middle infielder over-achiever types
Theriot, Fontenot, Flaherty, Spears…..the more the merrier !
huh
23 for AAA is fine. It’s definitely nod too old for the level. I’d say a 25 year old would be old for AAA, anything under is fine, IMO.
You would've given them up for Rich Hill?
Does that mean you honestly believe Hill will return to form as a top- or middle-of-the-rotation starter? Serious question. Thanks for the info on the Robnett and Sellers.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
no
but i’d rather take a chance on a sp, than reliever
by Asfan4ever723 on Feb 2, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
Hm, interesting.
I guess Billy Beane is a little more risk averse than you are.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
what the f is going on
thats what i want to know
Good god people
The Cubs can’t even trade a mediocre middle reliever for 2 solid minor leaguers without people getting all Chicken Little around here.
OMG WE’VE MADE A MINOR ROSTER MOVE THE CUBS ARE DONE FOR
Amen
Since when did Michael Wuertz get confused with Carlos Marmol? Wuertz throws one pitch and is inconsistent, which not terrible surprising led to Lou Piniella not wanting to pitch the guy. We’ve got a multitude of bullpen options that make me shed zero tear over the loss of Michael Wuertz.
Do you want me to show you the stat comparrison between Wuertz and Vizcaino agin?
What is with the Wuertz basing, seriously?
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
stats?
Don’t you know baseball isn’t about numbers?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Feb 2, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
if you want
we can talk about Roberts and peavy some more instead
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
hahahahaha
where in there does it say that we are done for? Also, sending two of your former top prospects away, your everyday second baseman for minor leaguers, your consistent fifth starter for a mediocre reliever, an other moves….how is that a minor roster move? Thats actually more moves than most teams have made this offseason. But alright.
Clearly it's my mistake for not realize that your 12 word comment
…was in fact a scathing, nuanced critique of the entire Cubs off-season, not just a comment on “Trader Hendry Sends Wuertz to the A’s” which clearly has nothing to do with what we’re talking about here.
Let me give you the serious answer that you clearly don't deserve
Hendry has made salary room to acquire an outstanding right fielder, while improving the bench depth and solidifying the bullpen.
He’s managed to do this while simultaneously and somewhat impossibly improving our farm system.
In other words, we’ve spent only slightly more money to make our team better and our farm system deeper.
I'd be curious to hear a defense of the claim that our farm system has been "improved."
We gave up one of our 5 best prospects earlier in the season; I don’t think the quantity of the other guys we received equals the quality of the one we gave up. But I am willing to be convinced othewise.
Fwiw, I am very glad we picked up another SS option. We desperately needed a solid SS possibility at AAA.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Who, Ceda?
That’s a fair point. I got the feeling at the Cubs convention that Hendry wasn’t a believer in Ceda’s viability, though take that for what it’s worth (I think he said he didn’t expect Ceda to be ready to contribute at the major league level for a couple of years). Stevens might not have Ceda’s upside but I think he’s more likely to help us this year.
I don't believe in Ceda personally
but I also respect the fact that I’m not a scout and the scouts rave about Ceda. Stevens may be more likely to help at some level, but Ceda was more likely to be a top-tier bullpen help. I’d still rather the Cubs farm system gamble on the high upside players given our overall budget.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
That's fair
But from a “win now” point of view, Stevens is a better guy to have on the farm – that’s all I’m saying.
High-upside guys take time that we don’t really have, given the ages of our superstars.
Again, I have to ask "what does 'win now' mean?"
Stevens is not, unless something miraculous or disastrous happens, going to be pitching in any of our post-season games. Jose Ceda may be less likely than Stevens to be on that post-season roster, but he is also more likely actually to end up a difference maker on a post-season roster.
Rolling the dice on high-ceiling players is how good teams become great teams; it’s how you “win now” if “win now” means “win the WS and not just a whole lot of regular season games.”
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
A lot of folks
Feel that Ceda will be ready to compete in the Marlins pen this year, and some folks think that he may end up being the closer for a Marlins team that may push for a playoff spot.
And all I'm saying is Hendry made it clear he isn't one of those people
…when asked about it at the convention.
I’m not a scout; any opinion I had about Ceda’s viability as a major league pitcher would be pure fabrication.
I should say as well
that you would absolutely have a better idea about Ceda than I would. I don’t have nearly the same familiarity with our system you do.
Thanks, but
You are giving me too much credit. No one really knows – I was simply pointing out that there are those out there that think Ceda is going to be ready this year. Hendry very well may be correct that Ceda might not be ready this year.
What's your opinion of the statement DGU and I are debating?
In your opinion has our farm system improved this off-season?
Has it improved?
Umm … comes down to how you judge things. Again, I’m only looking at guys that could’ve qualified as rookies (so Pie/Cedeno don’t count). Ceda was, IMO, the best prospect to come or go this offseason, so if you view things in terms of best high end talent, then we’ve taken a dip. But, there’s been some depth added to the back end of the system, and Ceda was a pen projection, and we have a system deep in pen arms.
Now, one thing I do like that few people have mentioned are the lefty arms that we’ve added in the upper levels. Matt Smith, Jason Waddell, and Bill White might amount to nothing, but then again, who knows considering our lefty situation. Add in guys like Robnett and Sellers, and we are adding some depth to the upper levels, which makes sense in this regard – it might help us have cheap stopgaps on hand if something should happen, although few of these guys added (including a guy like Brad Snyder) would be guys that I would depend on for an extended period (at least, as of now).
Has our farm system improved? If we’re judging solely from a subjective view of value, I’d probably say yes, but not by much, as the depth of assets added should equate to a coverage of the difference in value between Ceda and Stevens.
Hope that answers some questions. I’m more concerned with fit for the organization than I am with the overall status. Ideally, you have a stud system top to bottom, but that’s not us. For us, as of right now, we need usable assets in the upper levels coupled with upside, so while our system sucks, the fit isn’t that horrid (usable pen arms and end of the rotation arms, stopgap positional assets).
by toonsterwu on Feb 2, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd & I'll definitely agree that the parts added in this latest trade fit.
That said, my view is that the Cubs have enough payroll to focus their farm system on high-ceiling guys. Developing home-grown utility infielders and backup catchers is less valuable for the Cubs when they can afford to drop a few mill here and a few mill there.
I’m still glad that we gave Veal another year and traded Gallagher, even with Veal not panning out because I’d rather roll the dice on the guy who could be a difference maker than invest time in the guy who’ll eat innings.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
I don't disagree
With the basic idea that our payroll capability should allow us that flexibility. You want as many high ceiling guys as possible. I would note that the way the current contracts are structured means that we do need to continue churning out useful assets, unless Ricketts increases the payroll greatly. It’s hard to imagine, though, that the payroll getting bumped that much more.
On Veal and Gallagher – I’m not sure we “gave” Veal another year. I don’t think anyone would’ve traded for Veal during the season, whereas Gallagher had much more value. We basically dumped Veal as fast as we could after the season, through not protecting him. I think the Cubs would’ve preferred to keep Gallagher, in all honesty. The attraction with Veal was that he was a power lefty that had a solid breaking ball. Gallagher, though, was able to run it in the mid-90’s with a good breaking ball. Unlike Veal, Gallagher had better potential as a starter, as he didn’t have the severe mechanical concerns that was well known, and Gallagher had a better 3rd pitch.
_____________________________
I completely forgot about the Rule 5 losses in my previous post. That said, Mark Holliman is fodder, and David Patton is probably on a similar level with Donald Veal (granted, Veal has a greater chance of sticking on a MLB roster). Yusuf Carter was a toolsy guy, but he didn’t feel like a guy who would really be anything more than Brad Snyder, if he made it up. Overall, I still stand by what I said above (that the system has probably improved incrementally), but I just wanted to acknowledge that I forgot to recognize the Rule 5 picks earlier.
I see your perspective and think it's definitely defensible on a macro level.
Re: Veal/Gallagher, I was referencing a debate from a long time back about those two pitchers. I tend to be a lot more likely to take a 1-in-20 shot on high-ceiling guys than a lot of other people on this board, which is fine. Those 19 flops get tiresome.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
Just to clarify
Not certain if I’m misreading your comment, or if my intent didn’t come through, but anyhow, might as well clarify myself. What I was saying was that, by 2007/2008, I think Gallagher’s ceiling was higher than Veal’s.
Anyhow, it’s fodder for the past.
Thank you so much for giving me a serious answer
I know that I don’t deserve it, but I truly appreciate it. Maybe, since you found a wealth of time to give me this thoughtful answer, you could also explain to me what it takes to deserve a serious answer. I know that your mind is one of the treasures of the world and that your wealth of chicago cubs knowledge is in great demand, so I want to make sure that I take the steps to be deserving of a serious response. If you get the time, please let me know, and I will do my best to do these things, so that you can condescendingly ridicule me as if I were a child.
Looking forward to your instructions….
Well, Roman Grant remains in prison on polygamy charges...
…meanwhile, Lois appears to be on the brink of murdering her husband, and Bill’s father, Frank. Bill seems ready to give Ana a second chance at being his fourth wife, even though she cheated on him. Oh, and could they be setting up a romantic subplot between second wife Nicki and the attorney’s she’s gone to work for/spy on? I’m also wondering…oh, wait…you were probably talking about the Cubs.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
erm....your a dude, right?
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
This ain't no soap opera, son. Well, sorta, not really.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
haha, I always think of that scene from Office Space when Big Love commericals come on
“Lawrence, what would you do with a million dollars?”
“I’d tell you what I’d do, two chicks at the same time.”
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Wait, so "Big Love" isn't manly?
The mofo has three wives! Almost four! He’s a playa!
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Disagree.
Great show.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Feb 2, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
On your toes, Al!
There could be 3 or 4 more trades before the day is done!
"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry
The way things are going...
… who knows? All I know is I have to keep calling in changes to the Maple Street Annual (this year’s title for “Wrigley Season Ticket”), and the deadline is today!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
2009 Wrigley Season Ticket
Any idea when the 2009 Wrigley Season Ticket will be available for purchase? I got last years version & will definately be purchasing again this year
It will be called something different this year.
“Maple Street Press Cubs Annual”. Yeah, I know, kinda boring. Not my choice.
Anyway, I just finished all the edits (Hendry kept screwing up the player profiles with all these deals!), and as soon as I know it’s done and available, I’ll post links where you can buy it. Should be within the next week or two.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Is it me
or did Wuertz ALWAYS walk the first hitter he saw out of the bullpen? I swear it seemed that way last year everytime I saw him pitch. Does anyone have a stat on on that? I know Lou hated that, and it seemed finding the strike zone was a frequent issue for him.
Somehow, I thought Wuertz though had more value than what appears to me to be more AAA roster filler. Maybe this is Hendry’s strategy- stocking up Iowa for a run at the PCL crown? Are these guys any good? Are they official “prospects” with any kind of past rankings or roster filler? you guys probably know better than I.
Looking at recent MLB transactions
Erik Hinske signed with the Pirates for $1.5 M. Wonder if the Cubs were looking into him because he seemed to fit the bill quite nicely in many respects.
Feb 2 Dejan Kovacevic, of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, reports Pittsburgh Pirates 1B Eric Hinske said he had as many as eight teams interested in him before he signed with the Pirates.
Jan 30 Pittsburgh finalized a $1.5 million, one-year deal with Hinske on Friday.
Advice: Hinske replaces the unsigned Doug Mientkiewicz as the Pirates’ top player off the bench, although Mientkiewicz hit .277 last season and was a fan favorite in Pittsburgh. The left-handed hitting Hinske can play first base, third base, left field and right field, although the majority of his playing time has been at third base.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
While most of his past experience was at 3rd
based on looking at him, I’m not sure how much time Hinske will be spending at 3rd in the future. His numbers for TB while a small sample size, were not good. Since 2004, he’s had just over 100 innings at 3rd.
Maybe.
At least Doug Eyechart is a good bench player, unlike Hoffpauir.
Why would the Pirates want to waste money on Hinske?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Eyechart better on the bench, yes
And the reason the Pirates are wasting money on Hinske is the reason they are the Pirates…
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
I guess that goes without saying.
Mientkiewicz can play third base, too. Well, sort of, anyway.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Bruce Miles suggests that Angel Guzman may NOT be out of options.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
And he just updated that comment...
…saying that Guzman is, indeed, out of options.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
I guess I should have made that a fanshot
instead of an undeletable comment.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Alas, it is written in stone...
…and you shall be held accountable for it until the end of time.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Man, I hope not.
I still think Guzman may have at least one good (and relatively full) season in him – as a reliever, of course.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
This is an EXCELLENT move!
It’s clearly a move to set up the Peavy trade.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
As every move surely is
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
Can't you picture the headline:
Cubs charter 747 to send 150 players from Cub & Pirate minor league systems, with aggregate payroll of $9,000,000, to San Diego for Jake Peavy and his $11M+.
of course those figures
all depend on the strength of the Yen
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Feb 2, 2009 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
for Peavy
and a lefty bat
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
You're funny
there are lefty fielding gloves and lefty batting gloves but there are no lefty bats.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
I'm serious actually...
Link here: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090202&content_id=3791310&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Feb 2, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
If you follow that link
it actually suggests that the Cubs have fallen behind, of all teams, the Orioles, in the Peavy sweepstakes. The O’s appear to be seeking Eric Patterson and Matt Murton to combine with Pie and Hill to trade for him; or at least that’s how I read it.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
That's just because...
…the Orioles want to be able to package Peavy and Roberts in a single trade to the Cubs.
Actually, they'll be trading
Peavy-Roberts-McPhail-Angelos for Hendry-Ricketts. Many commentators deem this a “win” for the O’s, even if they trown in Wieters and Markakis.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
Do we get some crabcakes in the deal?
I love crabcakes.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Dose of reality
Knowing what you know, can anyone say with a straight face that the Cubs will live to deeply regret the day they got rid of ANY of the following names?!?
Jason Marquis
Rich Hill
Michael Wuertz
Bob Howry
Jim Edmonds
Daryl Ward
Felix Pie
Ronny Cedeno
Henry Blanco
I didn’t think so.
The only two names that cause varying form of indigestion are Kerry Wood and Mark DeRosa. And we all know that Wood was let go because of his injury history, the fact that he wanted three years, coupled with the emergence of Carlos Marmol. DeRosa is the only head-scratcher from a purely objective point of view.
we CAN NOT win in October...
without Cedeno. Period!
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Feb 2, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
I think Edmonds could make a return this summer
If we have injury problems or ineffective player problems, Edmonds is probably the first guy Hendry calls.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
He'll be waiting tables at his restaurant in St. Louis.
“Our specials today are stuffed flounder with hollandaise sauce, rib tips with a side of home fries and…hang on, I gotta take this…”
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
........... "sorry"
…… “that was just Maybelline calling about the new eye liner I ordered”. Maybe he’s born with it….
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
"sorry"
“… looks like my shipment of 1/2 T-Shirts just came in. I’m gunna have to take-off early today”
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Feb 2, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
this had the chance
to be a really fun game.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
Can you honestly say Hendry has made this team better by getting rid of these players and replacing them with cheaper options?
Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..
Yeah, I can't say I'm weepin' in my Wheaties over any of 'em...
…though I’d still like to see Hoffpauir dropped like a hot rock to Iowa and Jimmy Ballgame brought back as a lefty bat off the bench. (Just a personal pipe dream of mine. I kinda wish Hank White was comin’ back, too, but anyway…)
Oh, and ask Mariners fans about Ronny Cedeno. After bantering with them the other day, you’d think Seattle fleeced us for Jose Reyes or something.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Thanks!
It never fails – whenever I visit another team’s blog, I always run into that ONE GUY who has to act like a total jackweed for no particular reason. Of course, in the case of the Evil BCB, I ran into several.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
To serve and protect (and jackweed as needed).
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
What was up with...
the guys hating on BCB out of the blue (excuse the pun)? Does BCB have some misplaced reputation on other blogs that I’m not aware of?
I could understand if it was a Cardinals blog hating on all things Cubs, but…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 2, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
why is everyone look at me?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 2, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
They have a HUGE inferiority complex
They want to be the big, bad rivals, but they realize it’s still the Cardinals; we don’t care.
Kind of like Marquette and UW.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
It's similar to the response
from the followers of the team 9 miles south. They’re OBSESSED with the Cubs. Instead of worrying about the Twinkies, Cats and Tribe, they care about the Cubs losing. Should only matter 6/162 games a season but it doesn’t. And for the most part, Cubs fans ignore them. It’s why I try my hardest not to reply to that Craw-whatever guy when he trolls here trying to bait us.
The team 90 miles north is small market, almost AAA. I mean, if you live there, what the hell else do you have to do? They are envious the Cubs fans migrate north to fill up their ball park and nearly every Cubs game there, out numbers them. A Cubs pitcher threw the 1st no-no in their park. In 24hrs notice there were nearly 24k fans there, considering the circumstances, how impressive was that. The Cubs have a national following and IMHO have the most fans of any MLB team outside their geographic market. Hell, with all we have with the Cubs that they don’t have with their team, I’m not surprised the suicide rate isn’t higher.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Some of us do live "there" you know
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 5, 2009 6:28 AM CST up reply actions
There was no reason to trade Felix Pie.
Gathright’s best-case scenario – limited offense, pinch-running duties, CF-capable glove – is identical to Pie’s worst-case scenario.
And based upon Pie’s finish at AAA, I’d say that Pie is far more likely to contribute than Gathright. And he’s cost-controlled.
Hendry sold as low as he possibly could have.
And Wood took 2 years from Cleveland, not three. In short, Wood is no longer a Cub because of the horrific Fukudome signing. He’d be a Cub today if Hendry didn’t have $12M tied up in a 25th-man outfielder for the next two seasons.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
As of right now Gathright is a far superior base runner.
Their D is equal and their bats are equal. Pie may have more upside because he’s younger but as of right now Gathright was the better player. Pie had his chances and couldn’t do it. Hopefully he’ll do well in Baltimore.
Their bats are not equal
Pie out hit Gathright last year in inconsistent playing time. He continues to have more projection in his bat.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
No doubt Pie has more projection but Gathright had inconsistent bats last year as well
He had a very solid 07 season. Much better than anything Pie has done.
Gathright had an 88 OPS+ in 2007.
He played in 74 games and had 220 at-bats. He hit .307/.371/ .342, which is barely 25th man material for a contender.
Of course, he got into 105 games last year, and absolutely sucked. As in, Macias-level sucked. A 59 OPS+.
Ironically, Gathright and Pie spent a lot of time in AAA over the last few years. I’ll let you guess which player was mediocre, and which player was a star.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, I'm there with you. I wish Pie had worked out but he just couldn't put it together
I don’t think the Cubs view Gathright as needing to be an offensive juggernaut. He’s here to steal bases and play D. Pie couldn’t steal bases.
Exactly.
I think we’re trying to compare two different things here. Felix Pie deserves a shot as a starting outfielder – a shot he wasn’t going to get under Lou Piniella. Joey Gathright is a fifth outfielder/pinch runner, and as long as he performs those functions well, he’s a good player to have. No one should expect him to be anything else – namely, a hitter.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Pie is a better player than Gathright right now.
He’s also cost-controlled.
I find it very difficult to believe that Fukudome could have kept Pie on the bench for very long. He’s horrific offensively.
There was absolutely no reason to make that trade.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
Well, that presumes...
…Dome will be as bad this season as he was for the last half of last season. My guess is the Cubs are counting on Kosuke to find some balance between his All-Star first couple months and the horror we all witnessed afterward.
And there was absolutely a reason to trade Felix Pie – because Lou wasn’t going to play him.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
by daver on Feb 2, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's circular.
“I have to trade him, because he is valueless, because I have made the decision never to play him.”
That argument can be applied to anyone. Hendry and Lou had the power to play Pie. They chose not to. That does not justify giving him away for nothing.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 4, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
"couldn't put it together."
What is Gathright’s career high for stolen bases? 22?
In 2007 (his “best” season), he had NINE steals. And 8 caught stealing.
I’ll wager that Pie is not only substantially better than Gathright this year, but that going forward, he steals more bases in MLB, and at a higher rate.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I've been dabbling with UZR/UZR 150 lately...
…and, by that measure, Gathright is superior to Pie defensively. Last season, in 103 games, Gathright put up a 3.6/7.4 UZR/UZR 150 rating; whereas, in 40 games, Pie put up -1.4/-8.2. Granted, that’s a pretty big difference in games played.
In 2007, their respective games played were a little more similiar – Gathright played in 74 games and Pie 80. That year, Gathright put up 10.2/20.6 and Pie 5.7/18.5.
(Note to Sabermagicians: If I’m misreading these stats in any way, please feel free to correct me.)
FWIW, in 2009, CHONE projects Gathright to put up a .694 OPS in 396 ABs and Pie a .757 OPS in 434 ABs.
I think as long as Gathright runs well, plays strong defense and isn’t forced into a starting role, he could turn out to be an asset to the team.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
If Gathright gets 396 AB, god help us all.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Pie...
Had a much better arm.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Feb 2, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Gathright is a proven commodity while Pie can't hit
Gathright is what he is. A light-hitting outfieder who plays very good defense across all three outfield spots and who can run. Felix Pie has shown no sign that he can even be a Joey Gathright in this league. So saying Pie is already better than Gathright is silly and non-sensical.
You set them up...
2008 stats
Gathright .254/.311/.272
Pie .241/.312/.325
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Explain that comment.
First, Gathright has proven absolutely nothing, other than an amazing ability to get sent back to AAA every single year.
If you’re looking for a guy to put up a powerless mid-700’s OPS for your AAA affiliate, yes, he is a proven commodity.
If you absolutely, positively need a guy to hit .255-ish with zero power or strikezone control, yes, he’s your guy.
Pie has out-hit Gathright at every minor league level, despite being 4 years younger. Pie has done things at the AAA level that Gathright has only dreamt about.
Pie has also played “very good defense across all three outfield spots”. He’s a better defender than Gathright.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
What kind of commodity, exactly?
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Feb 2, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
If Hill comes back and puts up numbers like 05 - 06, and I think he will.....
then the question of whether Rothchild is a poor pitching coach will be answered
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
So Rothschild's professional reputation rests on Rich Hill's narrow shoulders?
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
If Hill succeeds under the toutalage of a new coach, then yes
Rothchild is to blame. And it’s a fact that it was Rothchild who changed Hill’s mechanics BEFORE his downward spiral.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
rick kranitz
was with us a few years back.
We should have traded Rothchild for Kranitz and we'd still have Hill
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Rich Hill's problem
Is between Rich Hill’s ears.
Rothschild has nothing to do with it.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Ew
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Bravo Sierra
Hill has ONE quality pitch. Not too many starting pitchers succeed with that limited repetoire, especially if it’s not a 100 MPH fastball with movement. Most certainly not if it cannot be thrown for a strike.
The notion that Larry Rothschild derailed a HOF career is absurd. Something happened in Hill’s life that shook his confidence. We likely will never know what it was.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
No
we won’t miss of those guys, especially Marquis, Hill, Wuertz, Howry, Pie, or Cedeno. Good riddance!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
we could miss
Marquis. Solid back of the rotation guy who ate innings, and won 10+ annually. since 2004.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
and a guy who wore out his welcome
in St Louis AND Chicago – which are two teams with the most loyal fans and they hated him. Marquis’ insistance on throwing his fastball burned bridges with Duncan and Rothschild as well as sending many balls into the stands. He isn’t solid, he’s inconsistent and inflexible and that’s why he’s gone.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
i think it was more
the $7 million annual salary when no one else was looking to sign him than anything about his performance
if he had performed that way and made 2 million i don’t think anyone would’ve cared
by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 2, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
+1
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I don't think Cubs fans hated Jason Marquis.
To be honest, I’d guess most casual Cubs fans barely recognized him while he was here and probably don’t know he’s gone yet. As for the rest of us, well, most of us just thought he was simply overpaid for a No. 5.
And whether or not he was consistent really depends on how you define “inconsistent.” Did he miss a single start as Chicago Cub? Not that I can recall. He gave the team two 190+ innings season and a 167 inning season last year. That’s pretty damn consistent in my book.
Give the guy a break – he’s not Johan Santana. He’s a rubber-armed No. 5 sinker baller, who turned a pitcher’s market and a Cubs team desperate for some rotational stability into a payday. More power to him.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Every causal Cub fan knew hwo Marquis was
and cringed every time he pitched. He was wildly inconsistent and could blow up at any moment. He would always fall back on his fastball and try and strike guys out instead of using his sinker to get ground balls.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
"He was wildly inconsistent and could blow up at any moment."
That’s true – y’know why? Because he was a No. 5 starter. That statement pretty much sums up the bottom of every major league team’s rotation.I think you’re holding him to too high a standard.
Moreoever, I still think he left Chicago being held in much higher regard than when he left St. Louis. And I’d give Lou Piniella some credit for that – he used Marquis just enough this past season to keep his numbers relatively acceptable.
Seriously, look at Marquis’ ERA+ for the two seasons he was with the Cubs – 101 and 99. In other words, he was essentially a league average pitcher. In still other words, he was a No. 5 starter. There’s really no reason to hate the guy.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
They didn't sign him to be a No. 5 starter!
That’s the point. That’s why people cringed when he made a start. That’s why he was disliked by any knowledgable Cub fan. He stunk in St Louis and Hendry made a mistake by signing him. That mistake has been corrected. Thank you, Mr. Hendry!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
LOL - fine...
…I suppose you could say he was signed as No. 4 in ‘07 in front of Wade Miller, who was hanging on by a thread at that point (and, IIRC, Angel Guzman, who quickly went down with an injury). But that really doesn’t help your argument that much – no one (besides you, apparently) expected the guy to be lights out.
Jason Marquis did exactly what the Cubs needed him to do – lend some stability to the starting rotation and pitch within his career norms. I’m not crying in my beer that he’s gone, but he doesn’t deserve to be disrespected.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
by daver on Feb 2, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
You say sucked...
…I say pitched at league average levels. It all comes out in the wash.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Inconsistent?
Look at how many times he didn’t get through 5 innings last season and get back to me. You will be surprised. He was very consistent last year. He was a league average pitcher last season. Piniella knew what he was getting when he sent him out to pitch.
"He was good for a 5th starter" just rings hollow to me.
That’s damning with faint praise if I’ve ever heard it.
You put the 5 best starters in the rotation you can get. The fact is, we could have (and likely will this season) put a better starter into the rotation than him. For the same money, we could have had someone better or – better still – we could have saved that money for a lefty swingman and put the superior Sean Marshall in the rotation the last 2 years.
The whole numbered starters thing is silly to begin with. People compare them like they’re positions on a diamond. “Oh, you can’t compare Marquis to other pitchers you have to compare him to other 5th starters!” Sorry – it doesn’t work like that – his starts are just as valuable as Zambrano’s, and if he sucks at pitching (which Marquis does) then he’s a fair target.
I think it's about expectations.
I simply do not expect a No. 4 or 5 to pitch to the levels of a No. 1 or 2. And I don’t think it’s realistic for any team not called the New York Yankees to field five No. 1- or No. 2-level starters, simply because it’s insanely expensive to do so. (And it seems to me the Cubs tried the “five aces” approach in ’04 with less-than-stellar results.)
Again, I think what Hendry was looking for in Marquis was stability. Following the revolving door of Double and Triple A pitchers we saw in 2006, he wanted someone who could take the ball every fifth day and give him league-average results. Had I been the GM, I’m not sure I would’ve gone the same route – I’ve long been a Sean Marshall fan, too – but I can see his logic .
Just out of curiousity, what better pitcher could have the Cubs gotten for the same money? I honestly don’t remember all the names that were out there.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
I was going to say Kyle Lohse
…but then I looked and he really wasn’t all that much better.
Obviously it wouldn’t have worked out, but at the time Jason Jennings seemed like a better option.
So yeah, point taken. Marshall though would’ve been an appreciable improvement.
he get hung
for two reasons by many novice fans
1. Jim over paid him
2. he was a Cardnial
I for one appreciated him for what he was, a end of rotation (4 or 5) pitcher who could eat innings.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I don't know that all that much stock goes into that "Cardinal" thing
In fact, before Edmonds, I don’t remember really hearing rumblings like that.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I'd guess many Cubs fans in the know...
…saw Marquis as an EX-Cardinal, because he was so reviled there during and after ’06.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
He was reviled because he sucked.
Not because he was an ex-Redbird.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
Well, he did "suck" in '06...
…but some of that can be blamed on TLR, who left him out on the mound to get shelled on a couple occasions (IIRC). But he was a league average pitcher for the Chicago Cubs.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Look at the stats first
ERA+ in 2007: 101
ERA+ in 2008: 99
He was league average. Sorry to destroy your rant.
And I never cared who someone USED to play for
If they can help the Cubs, great — sign ’em up.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's one way to look at it...
… however MLB rosters are made up of a wide spread of talent. Not every player moved is a regrettable loss of talent. Thats not to say that their loss was noteworthy and also not to say that we couldn’t use those parts. I believe Cedeno and Wuertz were both valuable players. Wuertz should have landed the Cubs more. Blanco to Bako is a step down.
Wuertz just a guy
a 25th man on your roster. You’re not getting jock for a guy like that, period. Plus, he stunk last year.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
Wuertz has been a very effective reliever most of his career.
I agree with dmlichte that we could have gotten more for him had we not telegraphed the fact that he had no place on our team.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
Which is what was done with Pie, too
Telegraphing, I mean. By the Gathright signing.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, he was so great he had worn a path between Chicago and Des Moines
He was a nothing, middle reliever, period. We’re lucky to get anything for him!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
Do you know what Wuertz' career ERA is?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
Yep and I saw him pitch last year
and he stunk and he’s gone and we won’t miss him. He had a chance to move into a more prominent role and failed, that defines him as the career middle reliever he was and is. They got what they could and it’s time to move on rather than bitch about how great he wasn’t.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
Let's try this.
I saw Jay Bruce last year in AAA go 0-4. He stinks. The Reds should dump him for nothing.
I saw Ryan Dempster get lit up for 8 runs in just 2 1/3 innings. He stinks. I don’t know why we re-signed him.
I saw Paul Bako go 2-4 with a HR last year. Compared to him, Soto stinks. Bako should be the starting C.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 3, 2009 7:39 AM CST up reply actions
I blame Rothschild
Wait, what?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
I think we could EASILY regret Marquis, Blanco & Pie
In Marquis’ case because your boy Harden is THE injury risk. Blanco because well he was a lot better than Bako and Pie because he is more than young enough to get better with a manager who believes in him. In fact everyone on that list has potential except probably Ward and Edmonds.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Feb 2, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
Surely he couldve gotten something useful for Wuertz
At the very least, not a 25 year old all or nothing hitter
The bullpen is my biggest concern heading into 09
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Well, this Sellers fellow appears to have some potential.
The Cubs organization certainly needed some depth at the SS position.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Stacking the shortstops in our system
Somewhat updating from my thread, but my guess on the main guys per full-season level at the start of the year:
AAA: Justin Sellers. I’m looking at his splits now, and I think there’s some reason for hope that he can do enough offensively for the position. Now, I wouldn’t take it to the bank, but if he keeps his FB rate down and gets some luck, he’d be interesting. Fits in the “Scrappy” mold, but has the glove for the position.
AA: Darwin Barney. I think Sellers and Barney are fairly similar. Both are good gloves with some tools to work with.
High A: Nate Samson. I think he gets more time at short. Very much in the Theriot mold of shortstops.
Low A: Starlin Castro. I expect Castro to get a shot to start at Peoria.
Mixed in there are some veteran guys (the AAA guy is slipping my mind right now, Andres Blanco?) and other guys like Marwin Gonzalez.
Cool.
It’s good to know that the team now has at least a couple of potentially decent shortstops on the way up.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Too bad it doesn't have one on the 25-man roster . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
It will
3 of those 4 will appear on ML roster in the course of the next years if not all four and dont give up on Camp who will share time I would guess with Sellers at Iowa.
I'm very curious about what they do with Camp
and where he fits into the picture. I wonder if he may be given some PT at 3rd, as I don’t know who has 3rd at AAA right now. I was thinking Reynolds, but AA has a 3rd base opening as well (with Lansford on the mound) and it’s not like Kyle was deserving of a bump to AAA. It’s possible they move Marquez Smith to AA, but I still think Daytona is the most likely route for him.
har harhar....
:P Maybe he’ll be a breakout.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Feb 2, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
huh?
Jim Hendry, barely taking a breath today, sent another pitcher to the American League. This also answers the question, "Who replaces Rich Hill on the 40-man roster?
How does this answer that question? Robnett will replace Wuertz on the 40-man roster, and Sellers will not be on the 40-man roster.
Which means that Hill’s slot is still open.
Bringing moderation to a place I don't moderate.
visit the mindful mission
You're right.
Sorry, I misspoke. There are still only 39 players on the 40-man roster.
Which means another move might be coming soon.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I just looked up Bako's page...
…on baseball-reference to see whether he’s ever played first base (he has – EXACTLY ONE GAME) and learned that his full name is Gabor Paul II Bako. Curious.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Al
You haven’t been traded yet have you?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 2, 2009 2:48 PM CST reply actions
We don't trade old veterans
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Jason Marquis and Mark DeRosa would like a word with you
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
unless they're in Lou's Dog House
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Feb 2, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
Ah, yes
Scott Eyre, also.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
don't forget
Maddux
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
Good point, good point
Was confining mine to the Piniella era, but that’s true.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 2, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
Nope, we just sign them to lucrative deals
Too bad Al isn’t washed up or we could sign him to a 4-year $23.5 million deal (sorry for the comparison!)
by dr stabbingworth on Feb 2, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
I'll take HALF of that and give half the production!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Billy Beane
Let me be the first to predict that Beane puts Wuertz into more of a spotlight role and ends up trading him to a contender around the trade deadline. I see Beane parlaying Wuertz into a solid piece down the line.
by dmlichte on Feb 2, 2009 3:14 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
it will work
that ballpark is a fantastic place for pitchers
by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 2, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
Rec'd
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
I really think
That the Wuertz addition is aimed towards protecting his young arms. He’s got basically two closers in Brad Ziegler and Joey Devine. I think Wuertz and Russ Springer will work the 6th and 7th innings for the most part, with an occasional usage in the 8th. They also still have Santiago Casilla, and former Cubs farmhand Jerry Blevins as their LOOGY. He might end up flipping Wuertz down the line, but I think the intent of this deal was to try and shore up the pen without giving up useful assets. They are trying to make a decent push this year (at least, push in the first half and see where things stand), and Giambi/Holliday should help their lineup, so the next step was protecting their young arms.
Beane
I think he has lots of hats that he wears… and its possible that Wuertz will just play a part on next year’s team. However Beane is perhaps the best at getting one year or less of great production out of a reliever, establishing him, and spinning him elsewhere. Wuertz may indeed be inconsistent and be a 5th or 6th inning guy… or Wuertz may perform well and Beane will see another opportunity to build up Wuertz’s rep and trade him for some team on the edge of contention, looking for a righty arm for the pen.
So you think Wuertz is a valuable pitcher?
Interesting…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Feb 2, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
what's your point?
A reliever who has a sub 4 ERA and a pretty solid out pitch? Yes, I believe he has value. Is he inconsistent… yes, but the VAST majority of relievers are inconsistent… thats why they’re relievers. IMO Beane is going to make Jim Hendry look foolish on this one.
Eh
Someone always says that about every single one of Hendry’s deals and yet it’s so rarely true.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Feb 3, 2009 4:44 AM CST up reply actions
38, right?
I haven’t read through all the comments, but it looks like we are at 39 on our 40-man roster, right? For all intents and purposes, Robnet takes Wuertz’s spot. But no one yet for Hill, unless the PTBNL is a 40-man roster guy (and most likely this person will not be named until after the season starts).
We were at 40 before Pie was dealt. Pie was dealt for Olson, who was then traded with Cedeno for Heilman. That put us at 39. Then Hill and Wuertz put us at 38, right?
That leaves a spot for an Aurilia type, and flexibility to add one more should we decide to snipe anyone off waivers or FA market…
39...
… I forgot Bako.
Still room for an Aurilia-type. And all players who were out of options that likely wouldn’t make the team have been dealt. What we got for them was Heilman, an A pitcher, AAA infielder, AAA outfielder, a PTBNL and a spot to land Bako. Not too bad, given these guys were headed to be DFA’d anyways.
Pie should have been kept over Gathright.
Replacing Pie with Gathright is a step backward in every respect. And actually costs more money.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Disagreed
Piniella tried, and wouldn’t have played Pie.
So, which is better: Gathright in center occassionally, with late game baserunner substitution vs. Pie warming a bench and taking up a 25-man roster spot?
Gathright
will be a late inning defensive replaement and pinch runner. He will be able to handle that role better than Pie who IMO would lose more confidence than gain any in that role. Gathright knows he is nothing more than a 25 man on the team and can accept the role better.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
Hmmm...
… Gathright mentioned in an interview that he thinks he can with the starting job in CF.
While I like that attitude, I hope he will accept being the 5th OF role if that’s where he lands.
I think Gathright has a good chance
of stealing the starting role from Dome, but Dome will be given a shot to prove otherwise because of his contract.
On day 5 of the season, however, it may be Joey’s job.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 2, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
What are you basing that statement on?
Just your own hunches? Regarding both Pie and Gathright?
Gathright thinks he can win our starting CF job.
Ironically, PIe actually could have.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Feb 2, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
Right, this is all I'm saying.
Gathright has a role – defensive replacement/pinch runner. Felix Pie doesn’t yet have a role because his full potential remains in question. Although I was all for Pie getting a chance to prove himself with the Cubs, that wasn’t going to happen. So Hendry actually did him a favor by trading him to the O’s, where he’ll finally get his shot at 400 to 500 ABs and a staring outfield position.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
Yawn
I don’t understand the concern that Wuertz was dealt. He was a marginal part of the bullpen. Harkens back to when people claimed that the Cubs “gave up” on Jermaine Van Buren and that he should have received a chance. He of the 19 career IP and rather poorly at that.
There are “organizational” guys everywhere. Wuertz is one now…as is Sellers. Bit parts in the grand scheme of things that really don’t matter.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
are you joking
Jermaine Van Buren? Mike Wuertz has had four years with a sub 4 ERA. This is an inane comparison.
Reading comprehension
Actually, I’m comparing the concern and reaction over dealing Wuertz to the concern over jettisoning Van Buren a few years ago…not the respective players.
More than anything, to those that feel the A’s somehow shafted the Cubs on this deal. Trading organizational players is hardly worth noting. Wuertz’s role is as a mop-up guy no matter what you believe his numbers show. Similar to Robnett….similar to Sellers. A non-event yet people still believe this will somehow “haunt” Hendry. That is simply laughable.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
Ya, I comprehend
And my point is that it was inane to complain about Van Buren. It is not inane to complain about the Wuertz trade. Dig a little deeper.
well now
while I don’t have a problem with dealing Wuertz, he was actually an effective player. An organizational guy is usually a guy who fills a minor league spot or is a stopgap type, which Van Buren certainly was (with his fringe stuff), and which Sellers/Robnett might be. Wuertz has been effective. If his slider is on, he’ll have enough of a gap in his K/BB rate to be an effective middle reliever (he’ll never have great control, so to expect improvement there would be unlikely).
Or
As a major league mop-up man which is exactly what Wuertz is, especially in 2009. Plain and simple…an organizational guy.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I think it's an issue of semantics
on the term organizational guy. For me, an organizational guy is a fringe major leaguer that primarily works in the upper levels of your minors to fill in some holes and to mentor your kids. They rarely, like Van Buren, and potentially Robnett and Sellers, last in the majors.
For you, it seems like an organizational guy can be a big league asset.
____________
As noted above, I’ve got not issue with dealing Wuertz, and I think the return was fine for what could be expected. We have other Wuertz’s in the system, ranging from Roquet to Maestri.
You really need to take a look at Wuertz's numbers.
In the grand scheme of things, they aren’t all that bad for a middle reliever.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
My take
If you need to worry about who your middle relievers are, you better first concern yourself with getting a better starting staff. Middle relievers grow on trees.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
You know we need ST to arrive
when we are over 400 posts about Weurtz being traded in a few hours
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
this is a sign of:
a) everyone is itching for baseball to return, now that the Super Bowl has been played,
b) the economy is really slow and everyone is working at half speed
c) there was a lot more man-love for Wuertz than we realize, or
d) all of the above.
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
I think my itching is more closely related to my man-love than some of you.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 2, 2009 7:03 PM CST up reply actions
FWIW File
A’s fans’ thoughts on the trade.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
If I can let my graphic design nerdery show for a second...
I have to say that I like their color scheme and side logo. That Metallic coloration offers a nice crisp, streamlined look :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 2, 2009 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
my opinion
solid deal
A’s SS situation is pretty bad…crosby, pennington, petit. their best “ss” prospect is adrian cardenas who’s really good prospect, but defensively at ss a work in progress. that they didnt even protect sellers in the rule 5 draft, he was free to any team.
robnett i had high hopes for a few yrs ago. injuries and spent time in high A stockton for 2 seasons. his 07 was encouraging w/ 50 xbh’s, but only 30 walks in 500ab’s, still couldnt hit lefties. 08 was big for him, but the stomach surgery made it a lost season.
maybe if A’s couldve included an additional prospect why not get hill also…that was weird
i think that cubs system is so shallow that robnett/sellers might get a shot eventually, but if they remained with the A’s likely been AAA filler…so good chance for them
by Asfan4ever723 on Feb 2, 2009 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
Regarding your regrets on Rich Hill
He’s been unable to find the plate in a whole bunch of settings. It is very, very unlikely that he can make it through all of ‘09 w/o needing to be sent down and he’s out of options. The A’s will have another shot to grab him when the O’s have to send him down. Trust us – you’ll be glad you got Wuertz instead of Hill.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Feb 3, 2009 7:41 AM CST up reply actions
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