D'backs, Rockies want 4 teams in Tucson for ST

Here is an article from the Arizona Daily Star regarding the ongoing negotiations to keep spring training in Tucson.

11 months ago tucsoncubsfan 22 comments 0 recs |

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I can't see that happening.

Who is going to move from wherever they are now to Tucson?

I think spring baseball in Tucson is reaching its end.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 20, 2009 9:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm afraid you're right.

I’ll just have to make a weekend of it in Mesa. Just as long as the Cubs don’t do something stupid like move to Florida, I’m ok with it.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson

by tucsoncubsfan on Feb 20, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you're pretty safe about the Cubs staying in Mesa.

Even if they have to do major renovations/additions to Ho Ho Kam Park, the people in Mesa love having the Cubs and I think the feeling is mutual.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 20, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tuscon Toros and Univ. of Ariz.

Tuscon has the Toros in the independent Golden Baseball League and the college Arizona Wildcats. The city has already lost its AAA team to Reno. Losing major league spring training would be a further blow to Tuscon baseball.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Feb 20, 2009 9:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Tucson also lost a minor league hockey team

in the late 90s….in the old WCHL.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Feb 20, 2009 3:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

This was all increadibly predictable

As teams were pouring towards the Cactus League no one did anything to try to steer any of them towards Tucson. I get the issue of where the funds were available from but no teams in Tucson is not a good thing. The Tucson baseball people were incredibly short sighted.

by dmlichte on Feb 20, 2009 7:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't think they could have steered a team to Tucson anyway.

The Phoenix area was experiencing massive growth and an influx of tourist dollars. It only made sense for teams to gravitate toward a place where they could have all their games within easy driving distance.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 20, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Marana

I really believe that if the powers that be in the Cactus League sat down with parties from all sides they would have been able to make something work. There was always talk that the community of Marana, just north of Tucson on Interstate 10 (between Tucson and Phoenix) was interested in landing a team. I understand the idea of growth but does the Phoenix area now have room for the current occupants, the Dbacks, Rockies, Reds and even one more team that is going to be needed if they want an equal number of teams? It seems to me that they run the risk of excess supply at some point.

by dmlichte on Feb 21, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They do need one more team...

… because if you have 15 teams (which they will in AZ starting next year when the Reds move there), you have to have a ton of off days and split squads.

There’s no reason you can’t have a 16-team Cactus League. It just means instead of seeing the other teams 6 times in ST, you only see them twice.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 21, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know...

… and I’ve been pointing this out for some time now. I really want to know what the league is going to do. If nothing else, there will have to be at least one split squad throughout the entire spring training schedule (i.e. even after most split squads are done, there will have to be at least one a day through the remainder of spring training). My guess is that this is what we’ll see unless the league is able to get either a foreign team, college team(s) or exhibition type of team to play for a few days/weeks.

I just think for the overall health of the league, they should have anticipated and dealt with this long ago. I think 12 teams in Phoenix and 4 in the Tucson area is better than 16 in Phoenix.

by dmlichte on Feb 21, 2009 10:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

All that does is either force the 4 teams in Tucson to play each other over and over, or make the Phoenix-based teams do travel that they don’t want to do.

One of the reasons (not the only one, but definitely a factor) in teams moving from Florida to Arizona for ST is the appeal of having every park in metro Phoenix, for easy driving distance.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 22, 2009 5:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

there are fans, too

If spring training were simply there to benefit the players they’d cut it down by a week or so and the top players would probably play even less often. There are fans to benefit, too, and now there are going to be two stadiums that are totally abandoned for the spring, now. Tucson Electric Park drew a ton of fans, especially for Dbacks games.

I understand the travel issue but I don’t see why asking a team to go to Tucson 3 or 4 times over the entire spring is an issue. Teams in Florida are traveling at least an hour and often 2 or more hours for most of their away games. The travel is still cut down on and with the way teams manage their players, if a team plays in Tucson 4 times, most players will make the trip twice over the spring, at most.

Having four teams means the Tucson teams having to travel less and see the other area teams less often. Its all a moot point now, but IMO, the Cactus League really screwed this one up. Having lived in Tucson (though glad I’m no longer there) I think its really unfortunate that the city will be without spring training teams.

by dmlichte on Feb 22, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You've driven from Tucson to Phoenix, right?

It’s more than two hours in each direction, now that population and traffic are larger. Just going there as a fan kills an entire day. No wonder most starting players won’t do the bus ride, begging off for one reason or another.

Phoenix’s population used to be closer to what Tucson’s was, 25 years ago. Now Phoenix is a big city (13th largest metropolitan area in the US, estimated 2007 population 4.1 million). Tucson is much smaller (52nd, 2007 estimated populaton about 970,000).

Face it, Dan — Tucson simply can’t support spring training any more. The population base in Arizona is in metro Phoenix, and that’s where tourists want to go in March. They had a good run in Tucson, but its time is done.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 22, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The drive

Yup, I’ve driven it a bunch of times. I totally get why there’s not going to be baseball anymore in Tucson. I’ve been saying for years here and on the old newsgroup that it was only a matter of time. I do understand the drive implications, though I think its overblown (they drive on a motor coach with DVD players and typically each team member makes the drive once or twice a spring).

I do believe that the area could support spring training, but I agree with you that its time is done. It was inevitable. Fans come out in great numbers to Electric Park but not to Hi Corbett Field (which has a great setting but is a horrible park). Tucson is really an interesting place and it would have taken a close by community to help support it (I have no idea what Marana is like). I’m not trying to disagree… I do agree with a lot of what you say.

I just think that its unfortunate that a fantastic facility will now lay dormant and it will be interesting to see if Phoenix builds a new facility for the Rockies or Dbacks.

by dmlichte on Feb 22, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right about the facility.

Tucson spent a ton of money on TEP, and they don’t even have the AAA team there any more, and I do think Tucson is big enough to support AAA baseball.

Economic conditions may make it unfeasible to build a new complex for the Rockies and/or D’backs at this time. We’ll see what happens over the next two years.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 7:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also...

… if you have not seen it, here’s a long article that appeared in yesterday’s Arizona Republic on the topic of how the state of Arizona lured teams from Florida starting in about 2000, and what they’re planning on doing in the future.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 7:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Am I missing something?

All this spring training new development (Surprise, Glendale, Goodyear) seems tremendously at odds with the real estate bust and horrific levels of foreclosure doom and gloom in the Phoenix area.

Is it because all the public moneys targeted for this development was committed/raised/spent before the economy tanked? Or are these totally separate sources and not related?

Just seems odd that tremendous growth and tremendous despair are occurring in such close proximity.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Feb 21, 2009 5:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yes, that's exactly what happened.

There’s probably a two-year lead time on all of this new development… the Goodyear and Glendale complexes opening this year were planned long before the real estate bust in metro Phoenix.

Surprise’s complex, of course, opened in 2003, long before anyone would have guessed this would happen.

And, remember, for those of us who travel there for spring training, a lot of these stadiums are paid for by our rental car taxes. Seriously. The taxes on a rental car (the list of fees is laughable, and you get taxed on the taxes) rented at PHX airport can come to more than 30% of the base rental fee.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 21, 2009 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs