Marmol Bails on WBC

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 23, 2009 7:11 AM CST Comment 96 comments

Wow. This news is fantastic! Best thing to come out of Cubs camp is that Carlos has decided that the closer battle in camp with Kevin Gregg is more important. Found it at the bottom of this piece in the Trib, about Z acting like a spoiled child.

I can only imagine the thrill it would be to represent ones country internationally, but more and more players are, and I think for good reason, bowing out of this exhibition tournament.

Carlos himself said "It's hard to say no to your country". Well, with the way he was borderline abused by Lou last year, and the important role he has in this team's success, I'm really glad he did.

Side note: This Zambrano behavior is really getting tired. I get that having the media around all the time would be annoying to say the least, but to me it's part of a players job to answer questions. Anyway, I digress...

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I don't think he has officially

“bailed” yet. This morning’s Trib says he is still undecided.

Dallas Green!

by SonnyJ9 on Feb 23, 2009 7:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

On second reading

you’re correct. Although it looks like a done deal…

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 23, 2009 7:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Marmol could show up everyday drunk and still be a better choice than Gregg

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 23, 2009 7:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Actually...

…. as I have said before, I think we might be better off with Marmol setting up Gregg. Marmol is a far better choice for the high-leverage situations in the 7th or 8th innings, with runners on base. I would rather have Marmol pitch in those situations, and have Gregg come in with a lead and no one on base in the 9th.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 7:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Understood

But if the two were closers, Marmol would still be the better choice. I would agree that, in some instances, the 7th and 8th are more important, but Marmol is the better pitcher by far.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 23, 2009 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, he is...

… and that’s exactly why you would rather have him come in, say, with runners on base in a tie game in the 7th or 8th.

Sometimes that’s a MORE important situation than closing. Don’t assume that you necessarily have to make the “better” pitcher the closer.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Well cant you just envision Marmol locking down the 8th only for Gregg to blow it in the 9th?

I’ll never fully understand the Gregg trade, especially considering his salary, while their may be higher leverage situations than the 9th, you still have to have a lock down closer to succeed, and using Marmol in the ninth will also limit his workload.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 23, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the closer position is overrated

Carlos Marmol would much better at coming in with runners on base and shutting the door rather than coming in with nobody on in the ninth inning. His stuff is electric and his skills would be best utilized coming into the game in these tough situations rather than just the ninth. But Lou will probably give him the closer job which will weaken our bullpen.

by cubsfan162512 on Feb 23, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 23, 2009 8:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree.

Al – I agree with you way too much.

by jselinger24 on Feb 23, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreeing with Al "way too much" will not get you a free copy of his book

….or will it?

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Feb 23, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've agreed with you on this

…for the most part. It’s more of a “the lesser of two evils” situation. Marmol as a closer would be lights out, but would Gregg be able to carry the lead over to him?

I really doubt Gregg impesses any team or manager as a closer, but we need him there so Marmol can do the more important job of squelching any impending opponent rally in previous innings.

by northernsails on Feb 23, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I couldnt agree more...

…with Gregg “unproven” at least in my world, why you put you best reliever in a new role and potentially face fewer batters?

New sig currently under construction

by JB 23 on Feb 23, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So what if there's no one on base in the 8th inning?

i.e. it’s still a close game but it’s the start of the inning so no one is on – do you still run Marmol out there and save Gregg for the 9th?

In those situations, I think you’d be better off letting Gregg pitch the 8th and bring Marmol in to slam the door shut in the 9th. But is it healthy to keep flipping roles like that?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Feb 23, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, it's probably not.

But how many of those types of games are you going to have?

If you’re that far ahead at the end of the 7th, maybe the starter is still in the game. Or maybe Guzman or Cotts or Gaudin is in the game.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm fine with him bailing on the WBC.

However, with all these players dropping out, I have to ask what’s the point of having the tournament? If it’s not going to have all the best players, why do it at all?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 7:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

They might have to move it next time

But players drop out for a variety of reasons. Marmol presumably b/c he wants to focus on his new job, Lee b/c he wasnt going to start and Pujols b/c they wouldnt insure his elbow injury.

That being said, I think they should think about playing it in November instead

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 23, 2009 8:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Play it in November

and vary the locations. Use it to globalize the game.

A WBC in Japan would be very successful, and allow MLB to tap into markets in Asia – China and India. Early-round games and workouts could even be played in Korea, China and India.

WBCs could also be held in South Africa and Australia with no real weather concerns in November, as well.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Feb 23, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I love this tournament, so if thats what it takes, I hope Bud is flexible

as crazy as that sentence sounds

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 23, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It could also be intertwined with the Caribbean Series

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Feb 23, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In any event, Im looking forward to this one

some real baseball for once

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 23, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We are 48 hours from some spring training games.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Feb 23, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thats not real

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 23, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's still baseball.

And it means we’re all one step closer to the games that count.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Feb 23, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well Im more interested in see The D.R.s lineup

rather than guys who will be booted to the minors in a matter of weeks

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 23, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because Bud wants it.

what a tool…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Feb 23, 2009 8:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

WBC: Good Theoretically, But...

these players get great financial rewards from their major league teams. That’s more important to them than playing for their country in the WBC. If the WBC is held again, I think it will have even fewer of the top players than this year’s event.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Feb 23, 2009 8:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Easy answer

Presuming your question is more rhetorical than anything, the easy answer, and correct answer, is money. Yes, it makes a good story that these players want to play for their country and all of that, and on many levels these players are being truthful about their desires to play in such an event. But when the opportunity cost may be a multi-year contract for millions of dollars, national pride has a way of becoming mitigated. Players can play the “good teammate” routine and cement them as loyal with their respective fan bases by bailing out and saying they’d rather concentrate on the upcoming season. Translation of course…they’d rather not risk an injury that could jeopardize their future earning potential.

So why have the tournament at all? Again, money. Selig believes that international money is just as green as American currency and that is the only reason this event takes place. I have long thought this idea was short sighted and foolish…along with nearly every other one that Selig has concocted during his reign of sham. I’ll say it again, he’s an idiot and has harmed the game much more than he’s helped it during his tenure. He’ll continue to do so.

Thankfully, players all across MLB are wising up and passing on this silly tournament. I’m a baseball fan and I’m a MLB fan and I want to see the best players playing on their teams during the MLB season not some arbitrary half-assed tournament that is meaningless to anything other than the coffers of MLB itself.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Feb 23, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have tickets to several games at Dolphin Stadium in Miami (Pool 2=Pool C and D)

I was hoping to see some good baseball, and perhaps I still will.

I feel a bit “cheated” since I bought tickets for an international “All-Star” exhibition and I’m getting lesser talent instead.

It reminds me of the Marlins’ fire sale in early 1998 after people gobbled up season tickets after the 1997 World Series victory. They thought they were getting a talented lineup featuring Gary Sheffield and Bobby Bonilla but got Todd Zeile and Mark Kotsay instead. At least I got to see a young Derrek Lee start at 1B.

Huizenga dismantled the team. The Marlins sucked, going 54-108 with essentially a AAA team, a roster of unknowns. Lawsuits were filed, but the team prevailed. The ticket entitles the fan the right to sit in a seat and nothing more.

Great marketing to sell tickets before the rosters are finalized.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Feb 23, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It would be nice

if Marmol decided not to play for DR. He logged a ton of inninings in 08. I think that would make a bold statement about his committment to the Cubbies.
As far as Z who cares if he snubbed the media Aholes all of them have opinions but they all stink…As long as Z comes out slingin I could care less about a reporters feelings.

by Steve Sax on Feb 23, 2009 7:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not worried about reporters feelings

More worried about Zambrano, at age 27, still acting like a petulant child. It’s time to grow up, and focus. It’s the mark of a professional, and IMHO one of the reasons this guy hasn’t quite reached his potential.

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 23, 2009 7:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Z is going to end up being the 5th starter

If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.

by Clutche on Feb 23, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

…5th? Behind Lilly and whoever winds up taking the fifth starter spot?

Dont forget, you’re talking about a guy who pitched a no-hitter last seasons and came damn close more than once in previous seasons.

by northernsails on Feb 23, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

While I don't think Zambrano will be #5

A no-hitter is irrelevant, really. The overall body of work is much more than a few games.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 23, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly my point...

Z’s overall body of work does not correlate with a traditional 5th starter.

And where do you get that no-hitters are irrelevant?

by northernsails on Feb 23, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I already agreed that he won't be #5

And for determining starting slots? No-hitters are absolutely irrelevant!

I wasn’t implying that they were irrelevant in baseball history — just as support for someone being an ace — which is what you were doing.

Kent Mercker once threw a no-hitter. Think that made him a #1?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 24, 2009 8:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No-hitters

are a demonstration of the potential dominance of a pitcher. If a pitcher can limit an opposing team to no hits in a full game, he could be plenty good, right? Obviously some of the best pitchers in the league regularly pitched games that weren’t no-hitters. Fransisco Liriano, Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana. So it doesn’t HAVE to be an important. But wouldn’t you rather have Zambrano, who regularly displays that kind of dominance, as your #1 starter or someone like Sean Marshall?

by northernsails on Feb 24, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather have someone who is consistently good

Instead of someone who is often dominant but just as often bad.

Sean Marshall will never be a #1 on a .500 or better team. That’s not what I am saying. Carlos Zambrano has the stuff, but not the makeup — at least not yet. But, I don’t think that’s what we’re arguing. It’s the merits of using a no-hitter as a measuring stick.

It’s a snapshot in time. Marshall could also throw one some day. It takes a good day and some luck. Mercker, Kevin Millwood and Bud Smith all threw one.

Remember Jeff Pico? His MLB debut was a 4-hit shutout. Potential? Maybe — but he wasn’t a #4, let alone a #1. Greg Maddux never threw a no-hitter — but I’d take 15 years of him in his prime over what I think Zambrano’s prime will be.

No-hitters are fun — especially Zambrano’s, because I was there. But looking at who has thrown one isn’t a reasonable gauge of overall ability — and the mental approach is part of ability.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 24, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Zambrano...

isn’t “bad” all that often. Unless you have a rather lenient definition of that term. He frequently kept the Cubs in the ballgame with his arm and also contributed with his bat.

You actually contradicted yourself a little. You started out saying that Z has the “stuff” to be a #1, then changed tacks and mentioned someone named Jeff Pico. What does one have to do with the other? Anyway, I’m not debating people who might, at one point in their careers, demonstrate that kind of dominance (you keep mentioning Kent Mercker). I’m talking about pitchers who consistently flirt with the event. Zambrano does that. A lot. He demonstrates consistent dominance.

We aren’t talking about mental approach, or comparisons to other pitchers really. We’re talking about whether Zambrano is capable of being a #1 starter. And you haven’t given me a single reason NOT to believe that he can be, nor have you given me a reason to believe that he cant.

by northernsails on Feb 24, 2009 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, I was refuting your assertion that a #1 can be determined by no-hitters

In fact, I flat-out stated that above. I was trying to be diplomatic, and I still am, but it’s absurd to say one game is a reasonable indicator — which is why I mentioned Pico. I would have thought that to be obvious.

As far as Zambrano’s abitilty to be a #1, believe what you want. Having the ability to do something and actually doing it are not the same. I am convinced that he won’t until he stops being a petulant little child. I’m also pretty sure that he won’t stop, but I hope I’m wrong.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 25, 2009 6:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Except...

It wasn’t ‘just one game.’ As I’ve stated several times, Zambrano consistently flirts with no-hitters. Bad luck or poor defensive play (Aramis Ramirez, much?) is often the deciding factor in these cases. In any case, Zambrano did his part each of those times.

I’m not going to argue with you anymore about whether the no-hitter is a valid stat for determining a pitcher’s dominance, because I really never started. That wasn’t my argument, you simply chose to take it as such. My argument was that a pitcher who can pitch well enough to come close to that feat so often is dominant. It’s the journey, not the destination.

And your argument about Z being a “petulant little child”…what does that have to do with our debate? So Lou is going to drop Z in the pitching rotation because he acted out at some overly self-indulgent reporters? Dont get me wrong, I’m not siding with Z in any of those cases, or the journalists. I’m just curious as to why you would bring up that scene into a debate about pitching.

by northernsails on Feb 26, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry dat cubfan

Made that comment without looking further down in the thread. Still your quote.

by northernsails on Feb 26, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Z is going to end up the fifth starter...

…because he’s occasionally rude to reporters? OK then.

"You've got to earn winning your division. We won more games than anybody in the National League last year, and we're going to have a target on our back, so we've got to be ready.'' - Lou Piniella, 2/17/09

by dat cubfan daver on Feb 24, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I've been tired of that for a while - and some of his teammates have been, too

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 23, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

When's the last time he came out slingin?

Zambrano has bad stretches every season that aren’t befitting an “ace”. He isn’t an ace, but he likes to think that he is. He’s got all the stuff, but his Nuke Laloosh head prevents him from being truly dominant.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Feb 23, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

that Marmol is better suited for 7th or 8th to hold down a lead in high pressure. He’s proven to be tough as nails in that role.

by Steve Sax on Feb 23, 2009 7:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agree with you & Al

However, because of the workload he absorbed last year, the closer role would give him less innings, and preserve his arm a bit. Not sure how the kid would take losing out on the closer job, too.

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 23, 2009 7:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Every relief pitcher wants that glory

of closing out the game and Marmol is no different; no one really remembers the set up man. Plus this is a business and he’s looking for his payday. Closing would put more food on the table. Lou would have to be very slick to keep Marmol out of the ninth.

by Steve Sax on Feb 23, 2009 7:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

did anyone watch the interview with Geo above the written article?

I love Geovany Soto, but is it possible he’s guilty of a little “manscaping”? Those eyebrows look especially symmetrical and pointy. I mean, yeah, I suppose he’s a good-lookin’ dude and all, but my goodness talk about being carefully kempt.

"Writing is exciting and baseball is like writing. You can never tell with either how it will go or what you will do." -- Marianne Moore

by duboisdm on Feb 23, 2009 8:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

He does wear mascara....

….so not too surprising.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Feb 23, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

come on...

He was just blessed with unnaturally dark eyelashes, right?

"Writing is exciting and baseball is like writing. You can never tell with either how it will go or what you will do." -- Marianne Moore

by duboisdm on Feb 23, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ask the Geo Girls on this site....

The dude wears mascara.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Feb 23, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey! Hey! Hey!

It’s called “guyliner.”

by dat cubfan daver on Feb 24, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Marmol is obviously

a better pitcher than Gregg. That being said, if Gregg can perform like he did in 07 (32 for 36 in sv chances)……….the Cubs are better off with Marmol in those high pressure 7th and 8th inning situations. I for one hope Gregg bounces back and wins the closer role…….I think the bullpen plays out much better that way. Plus…………if K Gregg doesn’t show enough to win the closers job do we really want him coming in the 7th and 8th with 2 on none out??

by plenz on Feb 23, 2009 9:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The WBC is a powderkeg waiting to explode

These Latin ballplayers are under great pressure by their countries to play in the WBC. The President / Dictator of Panama has basically come out and said any Panamanians ballplayers who don’t participate might as well stay in the United States after the MLB 2009 season is through.

So this isn’t so black and white a situation.

by BLou on Feb 23, 2009 9:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Enough crapping all over Kevin Gregg

Since day one of his acquisition people have ripped this guy a new a-hole. Fact is Gregg is a proven and reliable relief pitcher who is coming to Chicago to serve a major role in the pen. I like him and shall give him full support. Frankly it’s sickening that so many on this board (to include the leader of the board) have crapped all over Gregg before he has thrown a pitch.

I’ve said this before, I’ll say it again.

1. Gregg is NOT replacing Kerry Wood.

2. Gregg at 1 year and under $5 million is WAY better and objective baseball decision than 2 years and $20 million for an enigmatic injury plagued Wood whose right arm could once again blow up at any given moment.

by BLou on Feb 23, 2009 9:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

+1

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 23, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+2

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Feb 23, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

-3

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Feb 23, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

= -0

by dr stabbingworth on Feb 23, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa, negative zero.

You just blew my mind.

by dat cubfan daver on Feb 24, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

WBC...........MOVE THE DATES

Needs to be moved to Early February or November . Too many players are now starting to wonder Who is paying my salary ?? And yes there is the big $$$ factor in it for some of the venue’s and how much will MLB get ?? Gotta Wonder ,,,,,,,,,

by cubs north on Feb 23, 2009 10:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Early Feb. wouldn't work.

Not enough time to get players in shape.

November might, but then you’d get teams objecting to players participating in the tournament AFTER a long season.

There may be no real good solution.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Great solution

There is a great solution….cancel it. Forget that it ever happened.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Feb 23, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

now thats a good idea

I have to think that the lack of participation in this thing will lead to it getting the canceled after this year.

Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.

by nji232 on Feb 23, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think players will balk at a

November tournament…especially those who are elgible for free agency the next year. There is no way they are going to gamble losing a big contract to an exhibition tournament.

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Feb 23, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kosuke won't be in Cub camp until mid-March

How on earth can that be a good situation for either Kosuke or the Cubs. We have little idea whether Kosuke is going to be able to make the adjustments to hit major league pitching and his role on this Cub team FAR from certain at this point. And he’s not going to show up in Mesa for a few weeks?

Reed Johnson and Joey Gathright, do you smell OPPORTUNITY !!

by BLou on Feb 23, 2009 11:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

This is why I don't quite understand what Dome is thinking

On one hand he is the only player who I don’t mind playing in the WBC, because he won’t be a contributer to the Cubs. On the other hand he is basically skipping spring training and ruining any chance he had of being the starting centerfielder. Really he is the only one being hurt by this choice, RJ and Gathright can both do the same thing Dome can, so the Cubs team isn’t hurt at all.

Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.

by nji232 on Feb 23, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Culturally, I dont think he has a choice but to play on the Japan team.

….and few could stand to benefit more than a full ST than Kosuke.

New sig currently under construction

by JB 23 on Feb 23, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's not "ruining" anything.

He’ll be the starting CF, at least on a platoon basis. You (nji232 above) can’t seriously be saying that he’s going to lose his job because he’s at the WBC, are you?

He’s obviously getting plenty of work in, getting to play in games, etc. He’ll be in shape and ready to go when he returns to camp, and there will still be a couple of weeks left (more, if somehow Japan is eliminated early).

He’s not “skipping” spring training. And Joey Gathright is nothing more than a fifth outfielder.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It is mistake to assume Kosuke has the starting CF job sewed up

I fundamentally disagree with your proposition that playing and performing in the WBC is good for Kosuke. I also think Lou Piniella rightfully views the center field job wide open. Kosuke needs to be in camp and needs to show a renewed proficiency in hitting major league pitchers.

by BLou on Feb 23, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why does he need to be in camp?

He can work on the same things playing baseball with the Japanese WBC team.

The CF job is not “wide open”. If Joey Gathright starts more than a handful of games, we are in big trouble.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

Al, I disagree with you here. While he will be doing baseball-related activities while with the Japanese team, he won’t be doing American baseball-related activities. Isn’t that what they wanted to do with him at the end of 2008…“Americanize” him to MLB? If you’ve ever seen the regular Japanese national team routine, you won’t confuse it with what is done in the States.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Feb 23, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You have a point.

However, I do not think it puts his starting job in jeopardy. There’s no way Lou will bench $12 million of outfielder to start Joey Gathright in his place.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why should salary determine who starts?

www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com

by nji232 on Feb 23, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To add to my point

In their careers Gathright is a better hitter against RHP. He has a .263 batting average while Dome is at .251.
I know that BA isn’t the end all of this argument, but the fact that an argument can be made is what disturbs me.

www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com

by nji232 on Feb 23, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Salary doesn't necessarily mean that.

And you are not making a fair comparison given that Dome has played only one ML season.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Can you really compare the two accurately?

Gathright has 1,044 PAs vs. RHP. Fukudome has 439. And, regarding salary, yeah, of course it shouldn’t matter. But it does. The Cubs have invested too much money in Dome to not give him every chance to succeed in a centerfield platoon role.

Sure, I guess there’s a distant chance that Gathright could shock the world and steal the position. But I hightly doubt it. If Joey does pull off that coup, I’d guess the scenario would be more along the lines that Dome fails so miserably that Lou pulls him from the lineup entirely and Gathright puts up such a ridiculously high OBP and stolen base rate that Lou can’t keep him off the field.

by dat cubfan daver on Feb 24, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All I'm saying...

…is that I think it premature to assume Kosuke is the starting centerfielder. It is my opinion that Lou Piniella has the position open to full blown competition between Kosuke, Reed Johnson and Joey Gathright. I also envision a scenario where all three log major time in centerfield this season.

by BLou on Feb 24, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, Lou may say that...

…but I think it’s unlikely he would choose to play RJ full time given his fairly drastic splits vs. RHP. And it’s highly doubtful that Gathright will be able to provide enough offense to warrant a full-time job either.

More than likely, we’ll initially see a platoon of RJ and Kosuke with Gathright maybe getting an occasional start but otherwise serving as a defensive replacement somewhere in the outfield late in games (along with pinch running). If Kosuke’s approach at the plate impresses Lou, maybe he’ll take over centerfield eventually.

For the time being, Lou is going to encourage competition among players as much as he can. After all, he wants to see everyone’s playing capacity to its fullest extent.

by dat cubfan daver on Feb 24, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm saying that Lou already is on his last straw with Dome

If he sees RJ play well all spring training, can you really tell me that Lou won’t put Johnson as the starter. Its not a matter of if he is getting work in or not, its that he is no where near the team that is paying him. At best he can become the left-handed part of a platoon, and he is giving Joey Gathright a month head start to earn that spot.

Plus what has Dome shown to everybody that makes them think he is any more than a fourth or fifth outfielder?

www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com

by nji232 on Feb 23, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

More than Gathright has, anyway.

For one thing, Fukudome is a plus defensive outfielder.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We don't know about Kosuke in centerfield

Defensively, Joey Gathright is very good and Reed Johnson is above average. Kosuke? While I presume he will be good defensively in centerfield, I have no idea until I see it first.

by BLou on Feb 23, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Guess you missed the 12 games he played there last year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+10

Everyone needs to calm down re: Kosuke.

by dat cubfan daver on Feb 24, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All-Star Break!

Extend the break by a couple days, hold the WBC in one central location. Top 8 countries, single knock-out, done!

; )

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 23, 2009 11:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think there will be many people "eating crow"

when they actually see Kevin Gregg pitch. I think Hendry did a great job getting a guy with his his stuff and experience when he realized Wood was gone.

by Rick B on Feb 23, 2009 11:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's official

Marmol’s out of the WBC.

“I’m not going,” Marmol said after his workout Monday. “I want to stay here and work with Larry [Rothschild, pitching coach] and stay with the team. It’s hard to say no.”

Cubs manager Lou Piniella talked to Marmol in the outfield and left the decision up to the right-hander.

“I told him it’s an honor to represent your country, but I told him we’d support him either way,” Piniella said. “My posture is to stay out of it as much as possible.”

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 23, 2009 3:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs