A New Steroid Policy -- By BCB
Back in 2005, Bud Selig had introduced a new steroid policy that was thought to have been thee solution. Turns out, it still doesn't scare some players enough.
Some players seem more worried about having bad statistics and disappointing their franchise, fan base, and MLB. They don't seem to be worried about MLB's image, as a whole.
As a refresher, Bud Selig's current steroid policy (won't even get into amphetamines) that was ratified by owners and players in 2005 is as follows:
Steroid Penalties
• First positive test -- 50-game suspension, up from 10 days.
• Second positive test -- 100-game suspension, up from 30 days.
• Third positive test -- Lifetime ban, with player having right to apply for reinstatement after two years and an arbitrator being able to review reinstatement decision. Under the previous agreement, the earliest a player could be suspended for life was for a fifth positive test.
• In addition, a conviction for possession carries a 60-to-80 game penalty, while a second offense carries a 120-game to one-year penalty. A third offense nets the offender a lifetime ban. If a player is convicted for distribution, he will be suspended 80-to-100 games, while a second offense equals a lifetime ban.
In light of Alex Rodriguez's admission, even though he supposedly stopped in '03, do you feel as if this policy needs to be ammended?
I feel like this policy won't hold up. It's not scary enough. Players are still going to try to find ways around being caught. I can say with a good deal of confidence that there are still many players, in the minors and majors, that are still succeeding at beating the system.
There was some discussion in another thread as to what changes should be made to the current policy. Cubbie-Tim and a few others came up with ways to amend or change the it.
They are as follows:
(Almost) Zero-Tolerance Policy:
• Any player found to have taken steroids (Prior to the 2008 Season) will not be punished should their name arise through past tests, reports, etc. (Alex Rodriguez, 104 unnamed players, etc.)
• First Offense: Any player that tests positive after October 2008, will be suspended for 3-years and will be forced to relinquish the money to be made in the remaining year(s) of the contract
What about lifetime banishment, only after first offense?
• Second Offense: Lifetime banishment, name, stats, records, etc. expelled from Major League Baseball
• Also (from Cubbie-Tim): Any team with a player who fails a test cannot replace the player on the roster that season
What do you think? Sure, it might not be ideal and might have trouble being ratified by both the Players Union and Owners, but I feel like the current policy doesn't cut it.
Do you agree that the MLB needs to solidify their stance on PED's and construct a new policy?
If you were put in charge of coming up with a new steroid policy for Major League Baseball what would it be? Would you be harsher? More lenient?
-------
If you're sick of steroid talk, walk right on by. I thought this would be a good thing to discuss.
Go at it, if you wish.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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67 comments
Comments
My policy
Let them all use. Enough pitchers and hitters will use to cancel each other out.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Feb 9, 2009 7:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
then make
all drugs legal for the game, i want to see guys doing lines while on deck
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 9, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Better that
than sanctimonious hypocrite moralizing over numbers in a book
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Feb 9, 2009 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the could make the baselines out of cocaine...
…and replace the ivy at Wrigley with mary jane. Just an idea.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
by dat cubfan daver on Feb 9, 2009 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Worf-we get it
numbers are meaningless, records are meaningless, the whole world is amoral, hypocritical, etc. Now how about trying to find something new to talk about?
by bluekoolaide on Feb 9, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+ USS Enterprise
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 9, 2009 7:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So long as
people keep putting comical solutions out, I plan to poke at them.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Feb 9, 2009 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine
But why not try to vary your material a little bit rather than say the same thing over and over?
by bluekoolaide on Feb 9, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
or he could
come up with ideas and phrase them in a normal discusson manner, instead of a hatred way
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 9, 2009 7:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what a coincidence - that's exactly why I respond to your comments... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Feb 9, 2009 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Darryl Strawberry
Back in the game, baby!!
If John Paxson were a Greek hero he would be known as Sans Testicles
by wennington4 on Feb 10, 2009 1:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your policies are very tough
but perhaps that’s what some of these arrogant players need. I wouldn’t mind stiffer punishments, if nothing else to reward those players who follow the rules and work hard to achieve what they do.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Feb 9, 2009 7:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
anyone seen the minor league policy?
it is more strict than MLB
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 9, 2009 7:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know the Minor League policy that well
but isn’t in 100 games for first offense?
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Feb 9, 2009 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
side by side comparision
http://www.minorleaguenews.com/baseball/features/articles2005/03/21/03.html
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 9, 2009 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On the MLB side, at least for some...
it isn’t up to date. It still says has 1st offense = 10 days.
"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry
by EJThunder on Feb 9, 2009 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Blame Bud Selig
Bud the Dud has been a cowardly bastard when it comes to steroids and other performance enhancing drugs in baseball. Selig is a spineless weasel of a man that makes Bowie Kuhn seem like the greatest all-time commissioner of sports.
by BLou on Feb 9, 2009 7:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd vote for this policy.
It’d clean the sport up fast.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Feb 9, 2009 8:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I dont think this is feasible
The Union would never stand for it, and the clause punishing the team by costing them a rosters spot b/c of one players actions isnt right, plus it would deny the replacement guy a job.
I think a one-and-done policy is too harsh, I do like the erasing of stats, kind of the insult to injury, doesnt really accomplish much, but sends a strong message and a blow to the ego.
A lifetime ban after one offense is Draconian, especially compared to how actual felons are treated in other sports. A 50 game ban for a first test is fine by, afterall, it is nearly a third of the season. A one year ban for a first offense wouldnt be objectionable though
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Feb 9, 2009 8:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It's past due time that MLB tells Donald Fehr to pound sand up his ass
by BLou on Feb 9, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im sure he'll acquiesce immediately
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Feb 9, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the problem in baseball
is a lot like the problem in real life. You usually find there are enough laws on the books to deal with certain behaviors, it’s just that they need to be properly enforced for them to mean very much. MLB has been the equivalent of the Keystone Kops in this situation.
"They say we live and learn. Often what we learn is what damn fools we have been." ~Thomas Sowell
by Goodie1969 on Feb 9, 2009 8:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
maybe mlb should create 2 more teams
made up of just ped abusers. one team could play in joliet at the prison, and the other at some other prison. one positive test would send you immediatley to your new team. the prisoners would have a huge advantage of playing only home games.
by mailman on Feb 9, 2009 9:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How about this policy.
First positive test for an illegal substance (weed, coke, etc) or any other substance (’roids, HGH, amphetamines, etc) lifetime ban from the sport.
Besides the cheating aspect, these chemicals/substances are illegal. Period. Just because they’re athletes, should that make them exempt from laws regarding these items? Nope. Want a clean sport? Want to get rid of cheaters? Ban them permanently. That would clean it up in a hurry. I’m so sick of hearing about it that the only way to end it is to impose a permanent, lifetime, suspension with no possibility of reinstatement. These guys are adults making millions of dollars. Make them work for it naturally instead of enhanced chemically.
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." ~Groucho Marx
by Jettero2112 on Feb 9, 2009 9:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
turn the failed test to the authorities, let them treat them like other users
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 9, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you mix standard illegal drugs with PEDs
Then you have to ban for life any player convicted of any crime of any kind. Smoking pot does not help a players performance unless you are BIll Lee as far as I know so if you want to moralize and ban players for life for that you will certainly have to do it for a more serious offense like DUI, having an illegal weapon, heck even stealing cable might qualify.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Feb 9, 2009 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Silly me
From the headline I thought you were proposing a steroid policy for BCB members and I had some ugly thoughts about mailing urine samples to Al and how this would be enforced.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Feb 9, 2009 10:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
LMFAO!
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 9, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I thought
BLou is an obvious offender, but I don’t think he should be barred from the BCB hall of fame.
by ol Pete on Feb 9, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, yeah that's definitely my
underlying message.
"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry
by EJThunder on Feb 9, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, that's just wrong.
Besides, my mail carrier would just lose them.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Feb 10, 2009 4:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Y'know, I thought the same thing.
We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.
by dat cubfan daver on Feb 10, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to stop and ask yourself: is this really what we want?
The continued steroid controversies such as this latest one with Rodriguez are still from pre-testing days. You said so yourself. Why keep fixing a problem you’ve already fixed?
Penalties as stiff as what you’re suggesting here is draconian, vindictive, and beyond overboard. The severity of the penalty is way beyond that of the crime.
And besides you’d be casting doubt to your own results. Do you really want a Floyd Landis situation, where someone is banned from the sport for multiple years who may be innocent? With no real recourse from the law?
Worse, what if – and you’ll laugh but consider it for a minute – what if Palmeiro was telling the truth, and he was maliciously spiked by a teammate trying to get at him. Or worse, someone taking a supplement with an unapproved substance in it?
The complete and utter lack of perspective on PED use is mind-boggling.
by Wreckard on Feb 9, 2009 11:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If Palmeiro was telling the truth...
… then why has he vanished from the face of the Earth for the last three years instead of trying to clear his name?
I agree with you that the suggestions here are overboard. But there has to be a middle ground somewhere. MLB’s policy has only served to suspend some minor leaguers who didn’t know better, and some major leaguers who were taking substances they thought were on an approved list.
The system’s still broken.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Feb 10, 2009 4:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying that Palmeiro is innocent
I really have no idea. Though really, baseball fans have this inexplicable thirst for blood when it comes to steroids and I’m not sure he would ever be able to say or do anything to convince anyone of his innocence anyway. If he does resurface, it’ll be closer to his HOF induction year.
I’m more citing it as an example as something that could happen. It’s not implausible, another player slipping a guy a banned substance, essentially ruining their career.
The system’s still broken.
Why???? You said yourself, people are getting caught and banned. Are you referring to the Will Carroll article from this week? Because that’s a testing shortfall – no amount of increased punishment is going to change the fact that we can’t yet catch certain things.
by Wreckard on Feb 10, 2009 8:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The system is still broken because...
… it’s not catching everyone, obviously, and it is enforcing zero-tolerance sanctions on people who were trying to do things the right way (e.g. J.C. Romero).
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Feb 10, 2009 8:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok....
How does increasing the punishment change either of those things?
Those sound like testing / organizational issues to me…
by Wreckard on Feb 10, 2009 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You'd think that zero-tolerance...
… i.e. a longterm (more than 100 game) ban would dissuade people from using.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Feb 10, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Zero tolerance for drugs has worked so well in society I can see why you say that
It would also ruin the livelihoods of any innocent players like Romero who get caught, and punish people far worse than the crime actually merits.
Why do that when you can solve the problems you listed through better testing and organizational changes?
by Wreckard on Feb 10, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You have a point.
Supposedly, better testing and organizational changes have happened since 2005. Have we seen positive results from that yet?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Feb 10, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Since testing was implemented in 2004
21 Major League players have tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs. 104 did in 2003, and many more were named in the Mitchel Report.
So, you could argue progress has been made. But while some progress has been made with better testing and tougher penalties, the argument can be made that the cheaters are ahead of the testers.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Feb 10, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand what you mean
People have been caught and punished. Home runs are down (though that probably has as much to do with the cold springs we’ve had as anything). Something is being done, which is infinitely better than the previous situation.
Is there some reason I don’t know about to believe that steroid and amphetamine usage hasn’t declined greatly?
I’m not saying that there isn’t room for improvement, but the way you talk you seem to believe that the same number of players are juicing as before.
by Wreckard on Feb 10, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your point is taken.
And yes, there is still room for improvement.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Feb 10, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Take JC Romero as an example
While some parts of his case I disagree with (the option to serve his suspension at the start of the season rather than in the playoffs, for one), his tainted supplement from GNC caused him to test positive for a banned substance.
He will miss 50 games to start the year. Under some of these plans, there would be no recourse for a player who, while trying to do the right thing, was undermined because many supplements at GNC or the Vitamin Shoppe are not regulated by the FDA.
If Congress really wants to get involved in this mess, they need to look at the FDA and getting them to begin regulating all these supplements, whether they are dietary or meant to increase muscle.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Feb 10, 2009 8:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
reminds me of 2002
Jim Miller of the bears, 4 game suspension for a vitamin at GNC. On the flip side, these players make enough to have personal health instructors to tell them each item that is ok or not based on the drug policies, or the team or MLBPA can provide a list after a specialist reviews each item available at GNC, or wherever they buy their supplements from.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 10, 2009 8:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True, but in the case of the NFLPA (and maybe the MLBPA)
the hotlines players can call about the supplements they buy aren’t always open as they are supposed to be. That was Bernard Berrian’s argument when Pat and Kevin Williams got suspended at the end of football season. Romero went to two nutritionists who cleared his supplement.
The underlying problem is that the supplement makers are not required by law to accurately list their ingredients since the FDA does not regulate them. It isn’t until a Romero-like case comes along that this gets noticed, or tragedy strikes, like it did to Steve Bechler in spring training, which caused ephedra to be listed in whatever product it is in.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Feb 10, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well it gets even more complicated in the MLB
30% of MLB are foreign-born. Most of them return to their home countries during the off-season, where regulations are completely different and available substances are not the same as in the US.
A hotline is fine for players in the US but not those overseas.
by Wreckard on Feb 10, 2009 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I think it’s a direct relation as to why so many young, foreign players have tested positive at the minor league level. A lot does get lost in translation.
Some if cannot be fixed without some type of international baseball oversight committee stepping in.
But, for those American players or foreign players who reside in America, I think the FDA does need to step in and start regulating the ingredients in supplements that are sold here to eliminate some of this mess.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Feb 10, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I touched on this yesterday. What laws are the players accountable under during the off season?
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 10, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Random testing occurs year-round.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Feb 10, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There are precisely two stars of the past 15 years I have zero suspicion of
1. Ken Griffey Jr.
2. Frank Thomas
The rest? There will always be a whiff of suspicion unless we know conclusively. And yes, it makes me want to vomit that somebody as blatant at Sammy Sosa is walking away scot free from this mess while other players like Rafael Palmiero, Mark McGwire, etc. are thrown under the bus.
ALL the names need to come out. All of them.
by BLou on Feb 10, 2009 9:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I would add Maddux
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 10, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Have to agree with TIM-MAY on this one
Maddux is the only one that would shock me. I have never gotten why Thomas is considered pure, frankly.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Feb 10, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Dr. Crawdad says so?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Feb 10, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's sad to say that at this point, no one is above suspicion.
I agree that Maddux is at the bottom of the list, but I can’t say for certain any of the era of the 90’s to 2004 are 100% clean.
Too many little guys with lean muscle were caught. A-Rod was taking juice specific to lean muscle mass. Others were using to keep up with the schedule and not enhance production. Allow themselves to stay off the DL.
by N Oakley on Feb 10, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unanswerable questions?
… When did you stop believing that Sosa was clean and steroid-free? Was it after the Cubbies shoved him out?
by DrCrawdad on Feb 11, 2009 10:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
aha... Don Quixote returns...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Feb 12, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Donkey Xote...
The reference by Al was to a previous discussion. In that discussion, I stated that I believed Frank Thomas had not used steroids. Al “badgered” me to provide proof. I then provided 3 specific reasons why I believe Frank to be clean, none were “because (I) said so.”
In that discussion Al also said that my belief on Frank was “biased” because of my being a Sox fan. That lead to me ask Al a question that he no doubt could answer because it reveals his own bias (or Cubbie blinders).
by DrCrawdad on Feb 12, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Insertion...
That lead to me ask Al a question that he no doubt could NOT answer because it reveals his own bias (or Cubbie blinders).
by DrCrawdad on Feb 12, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you mean just position players
or did we forget a player or two.
I enjoyed this today’s San Jose Mercury Article of players least likely to have done Roids. Maddux was at # 1 with this description
1. Greg Maddux: Adding oomph to the fastball would have hurt his game. Plus, as the Mercury News’ Daniel Brown sagely notes, “Anybody whose physique could pass for a sports writer’s seems beyond suspicion.”
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Feb 10, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
I’m sure congress will be happy to know of your personal suspicions.
>>rolls eyes
I guess I don’t see awht the big deal is about. Recognize that the PEDs enhance performance, regulate them, move on.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Feb 11, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, and don’t forget…
TAX the hell out of them!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Feb 11, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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