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Bradley's BAbip

Reading thecubreporter.com I became aware that Bradley had an extremely high BAbip last year, .388 or .65 higher than his career mark. Now, if you assume that his career mark is a good indicator of his "true" BAbip and the added .65 is just luck then his numbers from last year in terms of OPS should have been quite close to his career mark of .827 rather than the 1.000 number he flirted with.

This is the first time I read this... was it discussed here and I just missed it?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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hmm fangraphs has it at .396

He did hit almost 25% line drives and i’m not sure what his X-BABIP was, but we can obviously not expect another year like last at least in the babip department, I’ll still take his projected ~.385 wOBA, even if it is in ~120 games along with the plus D. Good point though about his BABIP, Bradley seems to be the least hyped big time acquisition the Cubs have made in a while, and it’s going to be a good thing, he will be worth 3-5 WAR, but his track record is just too spotty to call him the answer.

Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation

by CubFanRaysaddict on Mar 11, 2009 10:49 PM CDT reply actions  

Will he regress?

Probably, but he’s moving to the lesser league and playing for a better offense. Like the poster above said, even if he loses some thirty points of his wOBA last year, he still would be a great player. The big issue with him is health, not his BABIP.
Also, THT had Bradley as the sixth luckiest hitter in baseball, as measured by the discrepancy between his BABIP and xBABIP. Interestingly, the luckiest in the league(by far) was Joey Gathright. Aaron Miles, Ryan Theriot, Geovany Soto and Reed Johnson all cracked the top twelve. All told, the Cubs made up half of the top twelve list of luckiest in the league.

by dakoose on Mar 12, 2009 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting.

I was aware of Theriot being up there, which is why I’m convinced that he’s going to regress fairly noticeably this year, but not Soto and Johnson.

Your point about his moving to a lesser league is spot on. Even if he does regress, he’ll still mash NL pitching. It’ll be interesting to see how many sportswriters blame any sort of regression upon “injuries” or any other kind of garbage.

"Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them, well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

by Keith on Mar 12, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good thing for you guys

Bradley’s production isn’t dependant on a high BABIP. He has a very high percentage of True Outcomes (Walks, HR and Ks), so while a drop in BABIP might affect his average, it won’t affect his overall numbers that much.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Mar 12, 2009 1:42 AM CDT reply actions  

What the numbers seem to say

Is that without luck, Milton is still an .800+ OPS guy instead of a .900+ or even 1.000 OPS guy. That means he is still valuable but not at an elite level. His BAbip indicates that his average was inflated by about .070 points, which means that his slugging was inflated at least by that much too (or more, if his lucky hits turned out to be more than singles). Substract that .140 from his OPS and he doesn’t look nearly as good.

While the argument is true that he is moving to a lesser league, he is also moving out of Texas which probably has one of the most hitting friedly stadiums in the league, and his splits certainly showed difference.

I’m not saying that he can’t be elite, just that taking into account BAbip his numbers look way different. Last year everyone was pointing out that Theriot’s numbers in the beginning were not real because he had a .390 BAbip or so, but I find it strange that it has hardly been mentioned with Bradley. A .388 or even .396 BAbip suggest a wide margin of regression anyway you look at it.

by Luis on Mar 12, 2009 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that the reason Bradley's luck has been ignored...

…is because he is considered a fairly elite hitter as it is, so his numbers aren’t that abnormal when there is a demonstrated amount of luck going into how well he hits. Theriot, however, is not good enough to consistently produce the type of OBP that he put up in 2008, and his BABIP shows that.

"Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them, well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

by Keith on Mar 12, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Look at Bradley's career stats

Nothing except the past season and half suggest he is elite. He has a career .827 OPS, which is good but not great for a right fielder.

by Luis on Mar 12, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, "elite" was a stretch

However, he’s certainly shown the potential to be considered as such (his 2007 season, small sample size aside, certainly looked good). I think Milton will regress to the norm a bit, but he’s still going to be a very good offensive player and an above-average RF.

"Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them, well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

by Keith on Mar 12, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

he also had a career high LD% though

and if he can keep up a 25% pct. line drive rate he could support a higher babip. his stats show that this is possible

LD%
2006: 15
2007: 19
2008: 25

these jumps in line drive pct. also coincide with a higher hit percentage:

2006: .310
2007: .330
2008: .400

Hendry's been hittin the bottle...

by kylejo on Mar 12, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Look at Bradley's career stats

Nothing except the past season and half suggest he is elite. He has a career .827 OPS, which is good but not great for a right fielder.

by Luis on Mar 12, 2009 8:24 AM CDT reply actions  

You fail to mention where he has been playing.

He struggled his first few years in the league, those being his years in Montreal and his early years in Cleveland. In 2003 something clicked, and he posted a .923 OPS. After leaving Cleveland, he spent his next four seasons on offensively challenged teams in horrible hitter’s ballparks, all the while posting OPS’s of .786,.835,.818 and .947. I don’t need to point out how good he was in Texas last year.
Wrigley Field is a pretty decent hitters ballpark, (it actually graded out as a better hitters park than the Ballpark in Arlington) especially for a guy that can take advantage of winds blowing in either direction. I don’t think it’s a stretch to consider him an elite hitting outfielder, with the caveat that he’ll miss a bunch of games. For what it’s worth, PECOTA has some seriously lofty expectations for him, as it has him posting a line of .294/.402/.525 next year, over 504 AB’s.

by dakoose on Mar 14, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know about

OPS, OBP, BABIP, WAR, WOBA and X-BABIP, When the guy has never knocked in 80 runs or scored more than 80 runs and only hit 20 homeruns once, That tells me he doesn’t make to the field. So all those numbers are great, the problem is Gameboard has trouble suiting up.
 As you can tell I am and never was a fan of this signing, he is a big IF, and always will be, he has a long track record to prove it.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Mar 12, 2009 8:50 AM CDT reply actions  

Yeah

It has been assumed that Bradley if healthy would be elite or great, but the numbers (any numbers) just don’t support that. I know others have already mentioned this here.

by Luis on Mar 12, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Milton Bradley becomes the 2nd most important Cub hitter next to Aramis Ramirez

And competes for a batting title en route to posting career high in RBIs. Bradley is primed for the bust-out that has been predicted for him.

by BLou on Mar 12, 2009 10:29 AM CDT reply actions  

And the Bradley hand-wringing continues unabated

This was discussed pretty extensively around the time of the signing. As mentioned, you’re failing to account for league factors, which should offset the regression somewhat.

But in all honesty, you’re arguing against a straw man here. Most of us who love the signing expect him to regress somewhat. Even if he goes back to his career norms, a switch hitter with an OPS in the mid-800’s and plus defense is not only the best thing we could have gotten on this market by far, it’s just plain good.

by Wreckard on Mar 12, 2009 12:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Good points

I figure the league influence will be lessened because he is also moving out of the stadium in Texas, which I believe is even more favorables than Wrigley.

by Luis on Mar 12, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Ranger's ballpark

was a significantly worse hitter’s ballpark last year than Wrigley.

by dakoose on Mar 14, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting topic.

While reading the Maple Street Press 2009 Cubs Annual (there ya go, Al!), I did notice that Bradley’s BAbip was insanely high – .396 (per the annual). But, just throw some additional info into this discussion, here a few of The Game’s OPS projections via Fangraphs:

Bill James: .888 (442 ABs)
CHONE: .927 (392 ABs)
Marcel: .895 (406 ABs)
Oliver: .855 (429 ABs)
ZiPS: .907 (354 ABs).

I’m assuming these systems take BAbip into account, no?

"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09

by daver on Mar 12, 2009 12:43 PM CDT reply actions  

Surely

So I don’t know where those projections come from because Bradley has really never been that high on OPS and his predicted BAbip is around .334. Perhaps league factors are the main reason, although my thinking was that moving out of the stadium in Texas would cancel that out.

by Luis on Mar 12, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

There are a number of reasons to expect those type of numbers:

A) He’s in his prime.
B) He’s going to be hitting in the easier league.
C) Wrigley is the best hitter’s park he’s ever called home.
D) He posted very good numbers before in either bad ballparks, the AL, or both.

by dakoose on Mar 14, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hard to make projections

Bradley is a very difficult player to project due to all his injuries. These projection systems of course use regression to the mean in their analysis, but with Bradley, it is very difficult to determine where that mean is. With all his injuries, it is hard to tell how much of his production has been hampered by being less than 100. I don’t necessarily disagree with the above projections, since his BAbip is unsustainable, but I think that some of the lower projections above are probably due to his multitude of injuries occurring right as he entered what should have been his prime years. Thus, I think if Bradley can play near 100 outside of his requisite DL trip(s), we’ll be getting a +.900 OPS guy. He has certainly shown the ability to perform at this level both last year and his time in SD in 2007 where his OPS was above 1.000 despite Petco being a pitcher’s park.

by smoldering on Mar 12, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well that's good news.

Or good “projected” news, at least. For the time being, I’m sticking with my off-the-cuff prediction that Bradley will appear in around 120 games, so I could see him checking in with a mid- to high-800s OPS, which would be just fine with me.

"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09

by daver on Mar 12, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Should say 100 percent...

not sure why the percentage signs aren’t showing up…

by smoldering on Mar 12, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Take this to heart about stats

My old baseball coach told me once and I believe what he said was “Stats are for losers”. I feel MB’S BA and OPS are gonna take a bit of a slide this year. New ballpark, new pitching staffs to get used to, etc. Day baseball will either help or hurt him. I can’t wait until he slaps a double past Prince Fielders nose, LOL

"It was a wise Man that invented Beer" (Plato)

by LarryCubFan on Mar 13, 2009 1:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Unlike last year when he...

…had to deal with a new ballpark and had new pitching staffs to get used to, and had the best year of his career.

by Wreckard on Mar 13, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

If there's one thing Milton Bradley should be able to do...

…it’s adapt to new pitchers, ballparks, etc. He’s been moving from team to team his entire career. And it’s not like the Rangers play all 162 games at night. He’ll be fine.

"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09

by daver on Mar 13, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, I'll 'fess up - at first I had no idea what BABIP was

The batting average part was pretty obvious, but it took a few minutes to decipher the balls in play part. Still didn’t know what it meant so I googled it. Clicked on a few sources and saw a consistent definition – well, except for the Bay Area Blacks In Philanthropy link (I kid you not).

So now I know what it means, there’s still one thing I don’t understand – and couldn’t find an explanation anywhere.

Why take Home Runs out of the equation? I realize once a ball goes over the fence it’s technically no longer in play, but it’s a still a hit (a very good one btw) and thus part of normal batting average. What does taking HRs away tell me about a hitter – that he’s scrappy? ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 13, 2009 12:21 PM CDT reply actions  

I'll let a Sabermagician provide a complete answer...

…but my impression is that removing home runs from the equation gives a more realistic depiction of how luck and good/poor defense factors into a hitter’s success. (I guess the only real “luck” involved in a home run is if a hitter gets a helpful gust of wind propelling into the front row.)

I’ll confess, too, that I’ve only recently started delving into BAbip and how it applies to both hitters and pitchers. And I actually have Al to thank for it: BAbip is prominently displayed in the stats pages in the Cubs 2009 Annual and I found it interesting to compare and contrast some of the Cubs’ hitters BAbips over last year. (Milton Bradley: VERY high, Kosuke and Aramis: Apparently low and exactly the same.)

If anyone out there knows of an Internet-accessible “BAbip for dummies” article, I’d like to read it.

"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09

by daver on Mar 13, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

No sabermatrian here, but

BABIP is intended to get an idea of how lucky the hitter was- lucky meaning balls in play that could turn into outs. The average player gets a hit on 32-34% of balls hit into play. Last year Bradley got hits on 39%- above average, so it’s assumed he was luckier than most, and therefore will come back toward avg this year. Home runs have 0 chance of being converted into an out, and so are left out of the equation.

by philadelphiacub on Mar 13, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

So by that .320 to .340 measure...

…Soriano, Aramis and Kosuke all appeared to be quite unlucky last year. Soriano’s BAbip was .305 and Kosuke and Aramis’ .307. On the opposite side of the coin, Fontenot seemed to get a bit lucky (.355 BAbip), RJ had a sizeable amount of good fortunte at .367 and, as mentioned, Milton Bradley won the freakin’ lottery at .396.

"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09

by daver on Mar 14, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

thanks for the additional insight, but the more I learn, the less I like.

I guess I’m still not grasping the significance of this – just seems odd to punish someone by subtracting a good thing.

As to the luck factor… that also seems odd. Why the assumption that players will come back to the average? Wouldn’t a good hitter continue to be a good hitter and thus keep his BAbip number above average? Likewise, a sucky hitter would continue to suck and keep his below average BAbip below average.

Now I understand if .396 is considered an outlier, then he’s probably going to come back to the average. But it seems from what I read on a few sites that this “come back to the average” assumption is almost always applied. Again, it just seems odd. And that’s probably why the only conical shaped hat I’ll ever wear is a dunce cap…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 14, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't totally get it either.

Someone needs to light the cwyers beacon.

"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09

by daver on Mar 14, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

BABIP is not all that refined,

and there are different versions of it out there, like xBABIP, among others. BABIP also isn’t used the same when speaking about hitters and pitchers. Here’s something that may help you understand factors that influence a hitters BABIP.

by dakoose on Mar 14, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

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