Cubs To Retire #31 To Honor Maddux And Jenkins

Details:

The Cubs are retiring No. 31 in honor of Ferguson Jenkins and Greg Maddux.

The ceremony will be done on Sunday, May 3 before the Cubs host the Florida Marlins.

Great news. Congratulations to these Hall of Famers.

8 months ago Al 75 comments 1 recs |

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Awesome.

It’ll be cool to see Maddux and Fergie at Wrigley in the ceremony. Longtime coming, especially for Fergie.

On a side note, why the hell am I still up?

"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry

by EJThunder on Mar 18, 2009 5:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Excellent. Long overdue for Fergie.

And while it’s great for Maddux, it only leaves me wondering “what if?”, had the Cubs not been so foolish and let him walk away to the Braves. Hindsight is always 20-20 (cough, John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander, cough)…

Hmm. As for the daily Wrigley reminder of the honor, are we talking flags on poles somewhere in the park, or what exactly?

Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (Now #12,966 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list- UP from 13,031...WHOO HOO!)

by Zeke on Mar 18, 2009 5:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I assume they'll be flags like the other retired numbers.

They could put one #31 flag on each foul pole, to have three on each.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Foul poles might start to look crowded

I always thought they could make a nice presentation on the “steps” that flank the scroreboard- put flagpoles there and fly them. Just a thought.

"I still don't know what happened"- Fergie Jenkins on '69

by tommy veryzer on Mar 18, 2009 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's a good idea.

I just assumed there would be one with Jenkins name on top and Maddux below, sandwiching the 31.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Mar 18, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

as expected fro some time now

when Maddog retired, #31 will be hoisted up the foul poles.

I was surprised to hear this so soon when it was mentioned on ESPN1000 early yesterday afternoon. Only remaining question is which name on which foul pole.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Mar 18, 2009 6:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll Say It......

….. Fergie definitely deserves it, but it is a reasonable argument to suggest that for what he did as a Cub, Maddux doesn’t deserve it. His best years were as a Brave. If you go solely by what one did in a Cub uniform, it cheapens Fergie’s accomplishments. If Maddux did enough to have his number retired as a Cub, then why not Charlie Root, Claude Passeau, Bob Rush, Mordecai Brown, Rick Reuschel, Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter? Because they were merely very, very good while Cubs. But sustainable long enough, while in a Cubs uniform, to merit the team equivalent of a HOF recognition? No.

For that matter, where’s a number for Gabby Hartnett? Billy Herman? Tinkers, Evers, Chance? Hell, Mark Grace? Charlie Grimm?

Banks, Williams, Sandberg, and Santo should be up there. I’d say Hartnett too for sure. After that, more than a few if we have to reach Maddux’s accomplishments solely as a Cub.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Mar 18, 2009 7:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Mad Dog was always a big Cub supporter

no matter where he played. Can’t really disagree about his Cub #‘s, but I’d consider his entire body of work as well as his devotion to the organization.

And yes, Grace should be up there. Probably Sosa, too, at some point when anger has faded.

"I still don't know what happened"- Fergie Jenkins on '69

by tommy veryzer on Mar 18, 2009 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Being a fan shouldn't count

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 19, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

#42

Bruce Sutter did save more games for the Cubs than the Cardinals. He also pitched more seasons in Chicago than St. Louis. #42 is retired for Jackie Robinson for all MLB teams, but the Cardinals have also retired #42 for Sutter. Yeah, he had his 45-save season in 1984 and world championship in 1982 with the Cardinals. Sutter had a relatively short career for a HoF’er. He “only” pitched part or all of six seasons with the Cubs. Hartnett wore different uniform numbers, so picking which number to retire could be a problem. The Cubs have only had uniform numbers since 1932. You can go to Cubs By the Numbers.

The list of HoF’ers who have played at least part of six seasons with the Cubs since 1960 reads as Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, Fergie Jenkins, Ryne Sandberg, and Bruce Sutter. Greg Maddux will definitely join that list. Andre Dawson has a good chance. I hope Ron Santo makes it while he is still in the Land of the Living. Lee Smith has a slim chance. Though, I think Big Lee deserves more love from the voters.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 18, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed on Hartnett and Herman.

Stan Hack and Phil Cavarretta should also have their numbers retired. In fact, (shameless plug coming!) you can read the story about why Cavarretta’s number wasn’t retired in “Cubs By The Numbers”. That story also probably tells why the Wrigleys refused to retire any numbers.

Grace and Grimm don’t quite measure up. Tinker, Evers, and Chance, obviously, never wore uniform numbers.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

As I recall, the Cubs only retire the number of players in the HOF

and made an exception for Ron Santo due to his extraordinary service to the organization.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Mar 18, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess Boston Should Retire #3?

Retiring #31 in Chicago for Maddux is almost pathetic — a bad joke. By this logic, Boston should retire #3, right? (OK, they didn’t wear uniform numbers then, but you know what I mean…)

Maddux played his first 6 years in Chicago, just as Babe Ruth played 6 stellar seasons in Boston. Not only was he just as good a pitcher as Maddux in those years, he also anchored a pitching staff that won THREE WORLD SERIES. And do you see Boston retiring his number? Please. To the contrary, they view him as a curse on the franchise!

Sure, he played a couple mediocre seasons in Chicago past his prime, but even those wouldn’t have happened if the Braves weren’t shedding salary. Maddux is a Brave, not a Cub.

If a player isn’t going into the Hall wearing your cap, you have no business retiring his number. Period.

Embarrassing.

by Ryan D on Mar 18, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs

Rec'd

by rlpete on Mar 18, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tell that to the three teams that retired Nolan Ryan's number.

Guess two of them ought to unretire it, by your theory.

Maybe the Mets should unretire Casey Stengel’s #37. He was a sucky manager there, right? And Hank Aaron was horrible with the Brewers, but his #44 is up there on Miller Park’s roof.

Carlton Fisk had his number retired by two teams.

Retiring a number is an honor granted by a team for whatever it perceives as that person’s contributions to the team. Greg Maddux had fine years with the Cubs, helped lead them to a playoff berth, and won 20 games (the only Cub 20-game winner between 1977 and 2001). There’s no question he deserves it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know I'm in the minority

One disagreement to your point on Aaron. His number was retired because of his time with the Milwaukee Braves not the final season and a half with the Brewers. That is a different case.

I have idea why the Mets decided to retire Stengel. To your argument on Maddux though, why didn’t the Mets retire Ryan’s number? Texas retiring Ryan’s number is a joke but I guess they wanted to retire a number. You could make the same argument for Houston, they don’t have the history of the Cubs. The Cubs don’t need to retire players who had their best years with other teams.

by rlpete on Mar 18, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right, but the "Milwaukee Braves" didn't retire his number...

… the Milwaukee Brewers did.

Nolan Ryan had four mediocre years with the Mets, barely a blip on their radar.

Maddux had great years with the Cubs, read my summary above. There’s no question he deserves the honor.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maddux

I think its a bit strong to say that there is no question that he deserves it. I think its actually an interesting topic because, based on his numbers with the Cubs, I don’t think that’s grounds enough for retiring his number. A friend of mine actually called me yesterday to ask my opinion on this very subject.

Here is my opinion in the end… Maddux had a nice Cubs career. Beyond that, he came up in the Cubs farm system and he went on to be the greatest pitcher of this generation. I think when you add those two factors together, it leads to a guy deserving of having his number retired by the organization.

by dmlichte on Mar 18, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stengel and Aaron were expansion team PR gimmicks

We can argue the exceptions to the rule – certainly Fisk is one I’ll give you, since though he only played 11 years for the Red Sox, he did win 4 MVPs there – but we’re so so far apart on the meat and potatoes that it’s clear we just have different philosophies about what it means to retire a number.

Let’s take your first example, Casey Stengel:

The Mets hired an over-the-hill (in baseball terms!) Stengel at the age of 72 as a PR gimmick to sell tickets, due to his popularity as a Yankee. He proceeded to manage the Mets to four straight last place finishes (including three 100+ loss seasons), and then quit.

The Mets retired his number.

And if that makes sense to you, we’re never gonna agree!

by Ryan D on Mar 18, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gimmick or no...

… it’s a done deal. I would argue that Greg Maddux means far more to the Cubs than Casey Stengel means to the Mets, in retrospect.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't get me wrong - HUGE Maddux fan here

Great pitcher, class act — one of the all time best in every respect.

by Ryan D on Mar 18, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You've made a reasonable argument for your position.

I happen to disagree with it. That’s what this kind of discussion is all about.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay....

… but why? Why “honor” him? And why now? The timing is all wrong, IMO, making for such types of disagreements as we see here.

I referred to a Cubs exec in the RWW fanshot that I spent time with on Sunday night. He was the one that started this particular conversation that night. Not even everyone in the Cubs’s organization believes Maddux should be honored, but majority ruled. If you want to know who the exec was Al e-mail me.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Mar 18, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan

I don’t think he should have had his number retired by the Rangers. He didn’t pitch there long enough and ended his career with a couple of mediocre seasons. I believe the Angels and Astros retiring his number was justified. I didn’t know Ryan wore #30 with the Angels until I played a Sporcle game matching numbers and athletes. I had always thought of Ryan as #34 pitching for the Texas teams. #30 was listed for Ryan.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 18, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

following your argument

Santo should have his number UN-retired since he is not in the HOF

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what about in Washington

where the Nats are the THIRD team to call DC home, and the numbers recognized as retired by the franchise are for playing in Montreal Expos uniforms, what do you do there?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

#10

Ronnie Belliard wears that number for the Nationals, but #10 was retired by the Expos for both Rusty Staub and Andre Dawson.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 18, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

now that is interesting,aint it

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess what happens in Montreal, stays in Montreal.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Mar 18, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so does what happen in DC

stay in Minn, Texas and DC?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tangent!

I took a tour of Fenway about a year and a half ago, where they explained their retiring-numbers process. They had three rules…don’t remember the first, but it might have related to length of service. #2 was that they had to be in the Hall of Fame. #3 is that they had to retire as a Red Sox (Sock. Whatever.) That, then, is why Babe’s number is not retired with Boston.

(Fisk goes against Rule 3, but I believe they worked out some deal to get around that.)

Before each game, please remember to feed the bats.

by Cool Hand on Mar 19, 2009 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tinkers, Evers and Chance

would be difficult to have their numbers retired, since they played before the team wore numbers.

Although you could, and I have argued the Cubs should do this in the case of Mordecai Brown (who was the best player on that team—better than the infielders), retire a blank number like the Giants did in the case of Christy Matthewson and John McGraw.

by Josh77 on Mar 18, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Cubs sort of do that

with the flags on the roof

by stadiumguru on Mar 19, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not quite the same thing.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 19, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

#31 for 2 Great Pitchers

I can remember Fergie’s second tour with the Cubs. He was still a good pitcher in 1982, when the Cubs played well in the second half of the season to finish in fifth. Maddux had a very good season in 1989 on that NL East championship team. Of course, he had that Cy Young in 1992 with the Cubs before (well, you know). The Yankees have #8 retired for two great catchers, Bill Dickey and Yogi Berra.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 18, 2009 7:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

too bad the Csbs didnt do this on

5/31 (Sunday home vs LAD) 7/31 (@ FLA) 8/31 (Monday home vs Hou) to coorespond the date with the number

this is great news and a well deserved honor for both players

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

5/31

That would have been appropriate because Maddux’s last appearance at Wrigley was in the playoffs pitching for the Dodgers against the Cubs.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 18, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

possible

that they wanted Andre Dawson (Dawson is currently a special assistant to Marlins president David P. Samson.) there, and chose to do the game vs the Fish for that reason, just like they did for Sandberg.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The sentimentalist...

in me says it was to have someone like Dawson in attendance (though why not vs the Braves then really?) but the economist in me says that that was a date that wasn’t selling very well and will now be sold out. Hooray marketing department.

by CubFan81 on Mar 18, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+ financing

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea!

Talk about being up at odd hours. It is 615 here. I am on Chicago time in my head.

JIXAVERSARY! March 7, 2000 to March 7, 2009. My avatar refers to me participating in the writing challenge and making it~

by cubstoseriesby100 on Mar 18, 2009 8:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

should have been done long ago for Fergie

Not taking away anything from Maddux’s HOF career, but – as Cubs - Fergie was head and shoulders the more valuable player. While I am glad to see the honor, it feels a little diminished in that the Cubs had to wait for Maddux to retire before honoring Fergie.

Also, what is the precedent for retiring a number honoring two players? I’m sure there are others out there, but can’t think of any off the top of my head.

by BatCubFan on Mar 18, 2009 8:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The Yankees have retired #8 for Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey

As far as I know, that’s the only one so far.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only numbers to be retired twice by the same team

are 5 of the Cincinnati Reds, 8 of the New York Yankees, 10 of the Montreal Expos, and 42 of the St. Louis Cardinals. The Yankees retired the number 8 in 1972 for Bill Dickey and Yogi Berra, both catchers. Berra took number 8 in 1948 after Dickey stopped playing but before he was a coach. The Cardinals have retired number 42 for both Bruce Sutter and Jackie Robinson. Number 10 was retired by the Expos for Andre Dawson and Rusty Staub. After catcher Willard Hershberger of the Reds committed suicide during the season of 1940, the team decided pay tribute to him by retiring his number ‘5’. It was later ‘unretired’ in 1942. It is currently retired for Johnny Bench.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

forgot to link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_retired_numbers

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I found these interesting

two players have had their number retired by more than one team
37 Casey Stengel Yankees
37 Casey Stengel Mets
30 Nolan Ryan Angels
34 Nolan Ryan Rangers
34 Nolan Ryan Astros

And Cleveland retiring #455 in honor of the fans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_retired_numbers

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 8:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You forgot Carlton Fisk and Henry Aaron.

Gee, Aaron had two sucky years in a Brewer uniform. Guess we ought to take that away.

I’ll repeat: retiring a number isn’t about stats, it’s about honoring someone who meant a lot to a franchise and the fans of the franchise, or in Aaron’s case, to a city.

Greg Maddux certainly qualifies.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

... yes Maddux qualifies,

… as did Jenkins 30 YEARS AGO!

by BatCubFan on Mar 18, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+31x2

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reggie Jackson

He had #9 retired by the A’s and #44 retired by the Yankees.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 18, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry #31 should be retired for Jenkins only

Maddux should not get the same honor. If my calculations are correct, his record for the Cubs is 133 – 112. What is so special about that?

I agree with Ryan D, did Boston retire #3? He had better seasons in Boston than Maddux had in Chicago.

by rlpete on Mar 18, 2009 9:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Read my reply above.

This isn’t about statistics. It’s about honor. Maddux deserves the honor.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A Cub exec (McGuire?)

was once asked why #31 wasn’t retired for Jenkins and replied that, while they respected him, a significant time of his career was away from the Cubs.

Hmmm….

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 19, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was previous management.

Remember, the Wrigleys refused to retire ANY numbers, even though guys like Hartnett, Herman (Hall of Famers) and probably Hack and Cavarretta deserved it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 19, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What do you mean by previous management?

McGuire is still there. It may not have been him, but it was someone at a Cub convention.

I’m too young to remember Wrigley ownership . . . I turned 9 in 1981.

If you mean team president, then you’re correct.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 19, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

133-112 for Maddux

Jenkins was a better pitcher with the Cubs than Maddux was. I grant you that. That 133-112 record of Maddux with the Cubs is quite good when one considers that he only pitched on two winning teams in Chicago (1989, 2004). The Cubs in the early 1990’s lacked a reliable closer. That cut down on the win totals for Maddux. The Cubs maybe should have retired #31 way back in 1991, when Fergie made it to the Hall. That would have forced Maddux to have worn a different number in 1992, when Mad Dog got his first Cy Young.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 18, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am not a fan of the Dallas Cowboys

The Dallas Cowboys do not officially retire numbers, and instead have a “walk of fame/circle of fame” where they honor past greats.

I think this is a smart way to do things, since the older a franchise in any sport gets, the harder to retire numbers based on available numbers remaining. The Bears are a team with a lot of retired numbers (13 total) for example.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 10:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The Yankees have gone overboard with this.

There has to be a middle ground somewhere.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I actually like the way the Yankees do it

Great Yankees get their numbers retired, and it makes them really part of the Yankee family. You see the results at Old Timers Day, which if you haven’t been to one at Yankee Stadium, it is like no other (a huge number of these guys come back, and they actually play a 3-inning game, it’s unreal).

But beyond retired numbers, there is a 2nd level of guys who are great enough to get monuments in Monument Park. I think it’s based on HOF.

Re: retired numbers, I agree the number of them seems absurd, but look at the list. Who doesn’t belong? Only Reggie and Mattingly are questionable to me.

Retired Numbers:
Billy Martin, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, Micky Mantle, Yogi Berra, Bill Dickey, Roger Maris, Phil Rizzuto, Thurman Munson, Whitey Ford, Don Mattingly, Elston Howard, Casey Stengel,
Reggie Jackson, Ron Guidry

by Ryan D on Mar 18, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd probably take Billy Martin off that list, and maybe Guidry, too.

Obviously, they’ll probably retire Jeter’s number when he retires.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Billy Martin being there is why I like the Yanks system

Recognizing the conversation is veering into the esoteric (but it’s a fun one)…

Billy won 5 World Series rings as a player and two as a manager — a consummate Yankee. Imagine if a player of, say, Mark Grace’s caliber won 7 rings. I’d want his jersey retired for sure, even though he wasn’t that great.

by Ryan D on Mar 18, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you base it on rings?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 18, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nitpick Alert

Not that this diminishes your argument, but just for the sake of correction, Martin only won one W.S. as a manager. He was canned halfway through the ’78 season, a victim of the so-called “Bronx Zoo” season in New York. The Yanks still rallied in the second half and went on the win it all….again.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Mar 18, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

there you go using facts again

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good catch!

Forgot about that. The Steinbrenner/Martin feud was some serious entertainment…

by Ryan D on Mar 19, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Cubs do have a Walk of Fame

Plus, the also have the flags on the roof to honor players and seasons that stand out in Cubs history.

I don’t have a problem with the Cubs retiring numbers – I guess I would if players were wearing numbers in the 50s and 60s – but with a smaller roster size, it’s easier to retire numbers in baseball than in football.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Mar 18, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's harder to retire numbers in the NFL

because of rules saying thing like “Linemen must wear a number between 50 and 79.” If you’ve got 15 linemen on the team (offense and defense) and you start retiring numbers, you run out of numbers really quickly, especially during training camp.

Quarterbacks are fine, since each team has three and there are 19 numbers to choose from, which they share with the two kickers. But once you start retiring from other positions in the NFL, problems start.

by Josh77 on Mar 18, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sorta true

you are seeing more palyers wearing numbers that are not in that same block to choose from in the past few years

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 18, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They expanded the blocks

because of the problem, allowing wide receivers to wear numbers between 11-19, for example. But the NFL is actually very strict on enforcing the numbers rule.

by Josh77 on Mar 18, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i hope there is a 31 on each fair pole

www.wrigleyexpansion.com

by drodd on Mar 18, 2009 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Cool

Andre will probably be there! YAHOOO!!!!

by TheHawkRules on Mar 18, 2009 12:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It's very surprising and strange....

that the Cubs did not retire #31 much, much sooner. Fergie was elected to the HOF in 1991, when Maddux was wearing 31. Maddux left after the ‘92 season and spent the next 11 years in Atlanta, so the Cubs had ample time to retire his number before Maddux returned. I guess if there were any doubt about Jenkins, it would be that unlike Banks and Williams, he did not play his entire career with the Cubs. This is not unlike a lot of the players who have flags on the roof of Wrigley….Andre Dawson or Hack Wilson, for example. Still, if you are going to retire 31, you cannot simply ignore Maddux’s contributions to the Cubs, so I would be all in favor of retiring the number on behalf of both players. Sure, Fergie went into the HOF as a Cub, and Maddux most likely will not. But if we’re retiring 31, I see no problem acknowledging another HOFer who also wore it and accomplished a great deal (300th win, 3,000th strikeout, and a Cy Young Award) in a Cubs uniform.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Mar 18, 2009 12:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs