Gammons on this morning's ESPN: Cubs will seek another starter in mid-season, who would you choose?
by Ivy Walls on Mar 21, 2009 10:24 AM CDT
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PrintNow as ST goes into its final 10 days or so the decisions on the 25-man and roles within the 40-man will be made for about 60 days or traditionally to about Memorial Day weekend. In fact you baseball has some interesting benchmarks: Mardi Gras means catchers and pitchers report, St. Patrick's Day and final cuts upcoming, April Fool's Day and opening day rosters are settled, Memorial Day and white flag epidemics emerge, Independence Day and mid-season trading season, Labor Day and there is the 40-man callups, Halloween and free agents signing begins all over again. Follow the holidays and you can follow roster developments.
Okay Gammons Report on ESPN Sports Center highlighted the Cubs starting pitching of Dempster, Lilly, Zambrano, Harden and Marshall (curious order he profiled was he giving his own opinion?), where then he again offered the opinion that with the new ownership taking over by then the Cubs will have more $$ to enter the mid-season starter sweepstakes because he projects that Harden will again break down. Of course he profiles a pitcher from San Diego who everyone here knows how many moles he has on his butt let alone his stats going back to Low A Ball.
That said it can be projected that there will be other pitchers available for a mid-season pickup other than the " PETCO Jake". Below is a list in a survey and of course you can discuss the attributes. Remember I think the Cubs management this year is more about believing they have the stuff to win the division right now, they are assembling a playoff winning roster where a Harden if managed properly through the season is a component but I think they need another "stud" on the mound thinking then they can move a few starters to the pen in the playoffs.
Of course no one predict who else is in the market to take on salaries and possibly players like Webb and Bedard will demand many more player assets (prospects and league minimums) than players like "PETCO Jake" or Halliday but the other concern is that this Cubs management is trying to punch a hole in that 100 year mark.
So which player is that "Stud" that not only puts the division title away but also is that heavyweight to take the mound with a hopefully healthy Harden and Zambrano to carry us through the playoffs?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Webb or Doc Halladay
I suppose who ever has health and youth more on their side, but Webbs a worm burner, so that might help at Wrigley, but has he been linked with a move away from Arizona?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
good call on the worm burning
webb’s groundball tendancies definitely should be taken into account thinking about him in wrigley, that said when this poll popped up and i saw Halladay i didnt need to look at any other names.
Lou: hit Aramis 3rd for the love of everything baseball.
Jason Marquis
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Mar 21, 2009 10:36 AM CDT reply actions
LOL
But seriously, we can have no idea, as the original post said, who might be available midseason. Teams that are now considered contenders might not be later and might want to dump salary. Toronto MIGHT be one of those teams, but maybe not.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
come on Al, let us have some speculative fun!
That said I can make a pretty good case that Toronto which is in no man’s land below Red Sox, NYY and TB and had a payroll of $98M last year might be willing to dump Halliday before he enters his FA year. This has already been published.
Webb too has been published where the AZ D-Backs have already laid off staff workers and if they are not in the competitive pool between LAD and SF could be looking to preempt the FA year of Webb.
Now Detroit is even easier, a payroll that last year was $138M they too if they are not out of the gates well and attracting enough customers will be looking to dump some salary before a FA year. Oswalt is a tougher call, and Seatle was just a throw in to remember all the love for Erik back in ’08.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Toronto
It is true that there is almost no chance that Toronto is going to contend this year. That being said, my understanding is that they believe they will have a good chance to contend in 2010 when Marcum and McGowan are healthy. I don’t see why they would get rid of Halladay this year when he his contract is not a huge burden and they could still get something for him in 2010 if that season goes south quickly.
Of course, I would be the first in line for a Halladay jersey if the Cubs somehow did get him.
by madeindetroit on Mar 22, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
You need a "someone else not mentioned here" option in your poll.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
some reason it wouldn't edit can you do it?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
thanks! How are doing today, Phoenix area worried about traffic jam
Got to go……
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Not in AZ yet...
… arriving late tomorrow. Will be at Monday’s game vs. A’s in Phoenix.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
then I am glad I sent you a traffic report
have a good time! I always look forward to your AZ reports.
Tell us if Patton is for real——what of the final cuts?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Will let you all know.
Actually, I hope to see Patton pitch.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I am counting on it
as much as the Sun rises in the east, or is it that the Earth rotates in that direction
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
all of the above?
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
Hmmmm...
….Interesting way to benchmark the season. Weird, but interesting.
I say no way on Peavy. His contract just adds to it. I keep saying he’s an arm problem waiting to happen, and I also find it curious how his lackluster WBC outings get brushed aside. Let the Dodgers have him, and watch him join Jason Schmidt in the “what if” rotation.
I’d snap up Roy Halliday (sp?) in a heartbeat from th egroup you mentioned.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I agree about Peavy.
He had some injury issues last year. They seem to have spilled over into the WBC. I suspect by midseason we all are going to be very glad Peavy is still a Padre.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I think PETCO Jake has run its course
more traditional mid season acquisition opportunities
Halladay or Webb or Bonderman or Verlander would actually replace Harden next year without a long term liability
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Yeah but...
… the two Tiger guys haven’t exactly set the word on fire lately, have they?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Ugh
I just looked up Bonderman and Verlander. I wouldn’t touch Bonderman with a ten foot pole, but I might consider Verlander under the right circumstances. But I wouldn’t miss him if they passed on him, either.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
have you seen verlander mentioned as being available?
i thought he was still cheap…would be surprised if they would move him
my guess is that verlander wouldn't be available
unless he
a) Sucked
b) netted a huge return
he’s only at 3.675 million this year … something that anyone could live with … and he’s cost-controlled for a few more years. Add in that pitching is their big problem … and I don’t see him getting moved unless it just makes so much sense that they can’t afford to not do it.
Yup
I think I said this last year- Sutcliffe loves the guy, to the point where he even left us at last year’s 2008 Hundley camp to go to New York to present him with the Cy Young. But even Rick said he’s concerned about Peavy’s mechanics over the long haul, and Peavy is right about at that point in his careeer where things will begin to manifest themselves, even if corrections are made. In other words, the damage has likely been done, it will become evident, surgery happens, and THEN he comes back with different mechanics. No thanks.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
two answers
first would be … i have no idea now as it’ll come down to how each pitcher is doing.
but let’s pretend for a moment that everyone is pitching ok and all of them are available. I’d go with Bedard for this reason – I think he would come at a cheaper trade cost (impending FA) on a rebuilding squad. If he’s pitching well (say the Bedard of 2 seasons ago) and is healthy, he’s worth the gamble, provided the trade cost is lower.
Keep in mind that the likelihood of us making multiple huge swaps (Halladay would likely cost a bundle of talent) is unlikely due to our limited system. Furthermore, the likelihood that any attempt at a big swap is likely to be contested – that is, our best package can likely be matched, on paper, and it’d come down to how another club perceived talent.
you picked my sleeper... toons!
Bedard is the kind of player Seattle could recover something before losing a full draino on the transaction. He might cost a couple of prospects like a Kevin Hart or Wellington Castillo and a second line AA or Advanced A prospect. Bedard was once one of the best arms in the game (2007) and if he is healthy he could be a nice steal.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Acquiring Bedard would also complete
the Cubs trifecta of Canadian pitchers!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Mar 21, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
you mean
a hat trick
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
problem is, their needs don't match up with our system all that well
they aren’t really in a huge need for catching talent, as they have quality depth there. they have several high upside young arms, one or two of them with a slim shot at being in AA by midseason. add in the young rotation options, and in terms of pitching, they’d probably want best talent available. They don’t need a top closing arm, as they’ll look at fields first, in all likelihood, and they have some system options. I could see them potentially contemplate middle infield talent, and maybe power in general, neither of which is really a strength for us (well, we do have 2nd basemen).
short of it is, on paper, it seems likely that another team could match their needs better unless we overpay. and I don’t think Bedard has a shot at Type A (though I could be wrong), which would likely lessen his value, increasing the potential market.
Kevin Hart is not a prospect
He is a 26 y.o. middle reliever at best. At worse, he is AAA roster filler.
Halladay would tear it up in the NL central...
But if the forecasts are correct, and guys like Doc, Bedard, Verlander etc are available, we might be able to take advantage in a huge way, it all depends on what kind of leverage is left in the farm system.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I would love Oswalt
but I do not see Houston giving him up, and I believe he will retire an Astro.
If SF is out of it, how cheap would Randy Johnson be to obtain to round out a rotation for this seaosn?
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I think this is kinda silly. These guys are amongst the best 5, 10, or 20 pitchers in all the game…and we are somehow just “going to acquire” them mid-season?! Don’t prices go UP in mid-season?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
which is why i posed the question abour Randy Johnson
aging lefty, not much gas left in the tank. he could be available for a lot less than those listed, while providing a good few month rental IMO.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
actually that is a misnomer
Acquisitions increase or decrease on market factors. If attendance figures for some teams or many for that matter occur at 20% average, that means some teams will experience greater attendance pressures while others little or even none.
Let us say the Cubs do not experience any deviation, along with Boston, LAD, ChiSox and LAA and MLB is experiencing 20% loss each team that maintains its market increased the loss ratio per individual market, so on the other hand there will be teams who get bigger losses. So the teams I put forward are already published with serious financial pressures….
All this will have more pressures on teams or organizations more concerned about surviving fiscally than winning ball games.
Therefore…as in any fire sale the norms will be reduced, actual price of acquisitions will have a new market value. So in that case someone like Halliday or Webb or Verlander might be available
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
I would love either of
Halladay or Webb
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Mar 21, 2009 2:33 PM CDT reply actions
either of those two are real studs
Then again Marshall might arrive and the Cubs need not acquire, but my thinking is that Harden is shut down for a couple months and the Cubs acquire a real horse—-someone who could even top the rotation.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Oswalt would NEVER happen
Astros would want almost as much as the Padres wanted for Peavy. And we wouldn’t give up that much within the division. Isn’t that a cardinal rule?
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Cardinal rule?
I know there was no pun, but i had to ask
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
You are hillarious
I’m just bursting at the seams
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Mar 22, 2009 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Halladay
would be ideal, However what 6 players do you give up? He would cost a ton. But goodness put him in this staff, ouch.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Maybe 4-5 teams will be contracted by the All-Star break and the Cubs will get to
draft players from those rosters?
Do you guys really think the ownership situation
will be settled by midseason? Since we heard Ricketts was the lead guy, I haven’t heard SQUAT about any progress. That’s not to say it isn’t happening, but I find the lack of news disturbing.
I will believe that new ownership is in place only when I see it, not before. Wouldn’t surprise me if it isn’t even taken care of by season’s end.
I have a feeling it will be done sometime before August
and that Zell wanting to do everything possible to avoid capital gaines taxes is dragging this out, while he reviews each sentence 17 times and continues to rewrite stipulations of the sale. He is worse than a used car salesman
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
how do we let the ricketts people know...
…not that they care, of course,
that it might be a good idea to invest in scouting and upgrading the farm system.
again i emphasize, not that he cares.
Why wouldn't they care?
And I think that’s probably priority one when they take over.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
i hope they do
it’s frustrating to a fanbase when the team doesn’t develop talent or scout it well (think current bulls/bears). if a fanbase sells out the arena and buys gear (all they can do), ownership should respond in kind by creating the best organization they can.
not ripping hendry, here. but before him, there was a horrible mindset too often. drafting guys on signability, not ability. trading black players because they weren’t understated like banks and williams.
i hope the new ownership keeps upgrading the system. if you bring in, develop, and make quality trades for talent, good things follow.
That's the single most important thing new ownership must do.
Expand the year round staff. The Cubs have the 2nd smallest fulltime staff in the major leagues, and that’s across all departments, not just baseball operations.
Once they do that, good things will follow.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Randy Johnson.
After slumping early for the Giants, we get him for a song. He winds up being this year’s Jimmy Ballgame, and the “Ancient Orbs of Evil” strike fear into the opposing lineup even on days he’s not pitching.
(It could totally happen.)
I left my clever sig line in my other pants.
oswalt
the day you see the astros trading oswalt to the cubs will never come.same division teams never trade unless its a minor deal.forget about it.
I don't think we will be getting anyone.
Putting the salary issue (and Ricketts’ approval thereof) aside, the Cubs’ farm system does not have nearly enough talent to use for trade bait in a deal for Peavy, Oswalt, Halladay, etc.
Perhaps Rich Hill will be available?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Rich Hill might be available next week.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Will he be healthy?
More importantly, has he been paroled from Lou’s doghouse?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I wasn't serious.
Looks like Hill is going to start the year on the DL.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
One thing that could impact earlier movement this year
is the economy. Previously, teams that were close in June continued to push for positioning before deciding around the ASG whether to move players or not.
This year, those same teams could consider moving salary earlier, maybe a month or 6 weeks earlier. Granted there’s likely to be less buyers but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a couple bigger moves in mid-June.
On the vote, I picked Halladay simply because of the lesser money (than you-know-who) guaranteed to him and his 2008 K/BB ratio (>5:1) and low WHIP of 1.05.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Bedard
Halladay and Webb would each cost the Milky Way. Plus I can’t see either Toronto or Arizona trading away the most prominent faces of their organizations. Peavy will also have an astronomical pricetag, plus with their ownership changeover I imagine talk of trading him will soon officially end.
Ben Sheets.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Mar 23, 2009 2:29 PM CDT reply actions
Brandon Webb
would be a dream come true. I doubt it will happen. I’d also welcome the Big Unit. My lower cost pick: Aaron Cook, should the Rox fall out of contention and be looking for salary relief.
The Rox
I don’t expect them to be in it at the end … but Cook is somewhat affordably signed through 2011 (including 2009, it’s 3 years 27 mil plus a .5 buyout that could turn into a 11 million 2012 option). That is, I don’t think they’d target salary relief if they moved Cook, but more top talent possible (I know some don’t draw a distinction, but I tend to).
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