Bye Bye Curt

Curt Schilling is retiring.

Some where talking about him joining the Cubs later in the season as an extra boost. If he could still pitch, i wouldn't have minded... but he would have had to prove himself. It doesn't matter anyway.

Personally, I wouldn't have minded if he tried to come back with some team. It wouldn't have bugged me if he could still pitch.

Big question... does he belong in the Hall Of Fame?

7 months ago TheHawkRules 19 comments 1 recs |

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He gets in based on his popularity and championships in Boston

He’s kind of like the Phil Rizzuto of the Red Sox

#34: You'll be missed!

by Chanman25 on Mar 23, 2009 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Can see that

by TheHawkRules on Mar 23, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No on HoF

Schilling didn’t win enough games AND never won a Cy Young or an ERA title. If you’re only going to win 216 games, you’ve got to be a dominating pitcher in your prime to make it. Koufax only won 165 games but won 3 Cy Young’s and 5 ERA titles.

I believe Pedro has a better chance. He’s only won 214 games, but he’s got 3 Cy Youngs and 5 ERA titles. Pedro was simply dominating in his prime, and Schilling was not. I would go with Mussina before Schilling. Moose didn’t win any Cy Youngs or ERA titles, but he won 270 games. That’s a lot more than Schilling’s 216. Schilling doesn’t qualify either as being a truly dominating pitcher for a short time or being a very good period for a long period of time. He had too many mediocre seasons before the age of 30.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 23, 2009 12:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I can see that too, but...

He did finish 2nd in Cy Young voting 3 times, I’d take a pitcher like that anytime.

I really don’t know if he belongs or not. I can see it either way. He reminds me a lot of Jack Morris. Some believe he belongs in the HOF, others don’t

by TheHawkRules on Mar 23, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ERA of Jack Morris

Morris had a 3.90 ERA. That’s the main reason he’s not in the Hall. That 254-win total was very good for his time period, though.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 23, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

But historically, both will be remembered more for what they did in the playoffs than for what they did in the season.

by TheHawkRules on Mar 23, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Phil Rizzuto never dominated but he was very popular in both the media and in New York

Yet he is a HOF

#34: You'll be missed!

by Chanman25 on Mar 23, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rizzuto is one of the worst decisions the Vets Committee ever made.

You’re right. His popularity got him in. That’s a terrible reason.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 23, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

which very well could be the case for Schilling

#34: You'll be missed!

by Chanman25 on Mar 23, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well I should say

“may give him the extra boost”

#34: You'll be missed!

by Chanman25 on Mar 23, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, Schilling is in the Hall.

He was a key part of three World Championship teams and has 3000 strikeouts. He won 20 games three times this decade. I think that combination gets him in.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 23, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Will be interesting to watch and see what happens.

by TheHawkRules on Mar 23, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ray Lankford Hall of Fame Wing Worthy

Schilling had a good career. Those 216 wins don’t cut it, if you can’t win a single Cy Young or ERA title. BTW, I don’t think Andy Pettitte should make it, either. He’s also belongs in the Ray Lankford wing of the Hall of Fame. In this day and age to me as a starting pitcher, you’ve got to do at least one of three things to make it to the Hall. You have to win at least 240 games, or win a Cy Young, or win an ERA title to even be considered. Schilling fails on all three counts. The 240-win total takes into account that pitchers get fewer starts these days.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 23, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bunning Doesn't Belong, Either

Bunning‘s there, but doesn’t belong. He only won 224 games with no ERA titles and Cy Young’s, when pitchers got more starts than they get now. Just because Bunning is in the Hall doesn’t mean Schilling should be. BTW, I realize that ERA titles are less subjective than Cy Youngs.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 23, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

List of Recent Starting Pitchers That..

should go into the Hall.

Definites:
Tom Glavine
John Smoltz (yeah, he was a reliever for a time)
Greg Maddux
Randy Johnson

Borderline cases:
Mike Mussina (not dominant enough?)
Pedro Martinez (not enough wins despite being dominant?)
Roger Clemens (PED use?)

BTW, I think Clemens would be a 100% lock, if it weren’t for the suspicion of PED use. I think both Mussina and Martinez have stronger Hall cases than Schilling.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 23, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pedro is a definite to me

He is this era’s Sandy Koufax except Martinez tried to keep pitching where Koufax called it quits earlier. Pedro was as dominating as anyone during his peak. He has 3 CYA, 2 2nd place finishes and 5 ERA titles. Right now, he has 214 wins. Koufax also had 3 CYA and 5 ERA titles with only 165 wins.

Schilling is borderline. I’d need to think about it for awhile. I suspect he’ll eventually get in.

by rlpete on Mar 23, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Koufax Argument Valid; Schilling

I didn’t put Pedro as a definite because of the 214 wins. I think the 3 Cy Youngs and 5 ERA titles gets him into the Hall. It worked for Koufax. That run Pedro had from 1997-2002 was incredible. Maddux had a great run like that from 1992-1998.

BTW, I admire the guts of Schilling. I think if you’ve got a relatively low victory total that you’ve got to be the best pitcher in your league at some point to be a Hall of Famer. Koufax was that in the National League. Pedro was that in the American League. I never felt Schilling was the best pitcher in his league. He was one of the gutsiest guys I’ve ever seen on the mound.

I know Mussina never got a Cy Young or an ERA title. He didn’t have the kind of postseason success that Schilling did. Mussina and Schilling were contemporaries and pitched in the same division for a few years. The big difference between Mussina’s 270 and Schilling’s 216 wins is hard to ignore. I say Mussina is a Hall of Famer, and Schilling is not.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 24, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, I don't know. There would be a lot of

200 win 3.50 era guys looking to beat the doors to cooperstown down if Schilling got in. Schilling goes in my Hall of Very Good. Kind of like the AAAA of the Hall of Fame.

Let’s put it this way, Schilling has no business there before Bert Blyleven. Compare total career numbers and peaks and there’s no comparison.

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Mar 23, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs