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Well das is good
Marmol in my opinion coming in the 7th-8th inning slot makes the Cubs stronger and shortens a game. If Heilman is as effective as he has seemed the Cubs could shorten games to 7 innings if they have a lead.
That puts added pressure to score runs on our starters.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
I second the approval
Closing would put too much pressure on Marmol.
Steal a little and they throw you in jail, Steal a lot and they make you king -- Bob Dylan
All those that questioned trading for Gregg
still think it was a mistake? He had a sore knee last year that kept him from doing his best work. Hopefully, he’ll stay healthy all year, and anchor what should be a decent if not spectacular pen.
Good move, Lou.
I have nothing funny or creative to write.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Mar 29, 2009 2:03 PM CDT reply actions
Yes - it was a mistake
1) We paid too much for him; that hasn’t changed.
2) There’s not a player in the ML universe who didn’t have a sore something affecting their performance last year.
3) Gregg is the kind of pitcher Lou will not like, with all his walks. He needs to be the closer so he can start innings with the bases empty. So, yes, naming him closer is a good move, but that doesn’t make trading one of your top prospects for him a good move.
2009 Cubs' MVP: Derrek Lee
A bit exaggerated
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion on Ceda but far be it for a pitcher with a short track record, is overweight, has arm issues and has battled poor command for his entire career, to wind up as a complete and utter afterthought. While there are numerous guys like Ceda that have littered the baseball lanscape, I’ll give you just one name that was much, much more highly thought of than Ceda and completely flamed out. Try Jose Capellan.
If you want to win now, Gregg makes far, far more sense than Ceda.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I don't care for Ceda personally.
That doesn’t change that he had value to some teams as a trade chip; it doesn’t change that professional scouts like him better than you and I.
If you want to win now, you need to get high leverage relievers that won’t drive your manager crazy.
2009 Cubs' MVP: Derrek Lee
Like this move as well.
You just knew this would be Lou’s choice, he loves Marmol is the the 7th and 8th inning role.
Dallas Green!
I'm
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Mar 29, 2009 2:12 PM CDT reply actions
Happy.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Mar 29, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I like it.
Marmol is just too valuable putting out those fires in the 7th-8th.
Someday we'll go all the way...
He's disappointed
But we don’t know if it will affect his performance.
by cubsonWGN4ever on Mar 29, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Closer is overrated
I’d want Marmol in the 7/8 when the game is really on the line not the last 3 outs of a clean inning.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Mar 29, 2009 2:29 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
-1
What you say makes sense except that you are ignoring how closing can affect someone mentally. Losing an important game by blowing a save can really mess with a person’s head, and us Cubs fans know this by recent experience.
It’s true that you need less stuff to do the closer’s job, but you also need a lot more in the mental part, and certainly not everybody has that.
How do you -1?
I’d like to know.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
I think the "mental" aspect is overstated by fans
Yes. Losing a game when you’re the one on the mound hurts. But why would that pain be less if you’re the set up man who gives up the go-ahead run?
Losing hurts regardless of when it happens.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Mar 29, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
But Kevin Gregg does.
He has plenty of experience of closing.
"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09
I see your point.....
about the 7th/8th inning setup guy(s). However, having a quality closer is not overrated. It’s very important to have a guy who can consistently get those three outs in the ninth. Although it made for good entertainment, the Mets choking away two consecutive postseason appearances because of the lack of a good (or healthy) closer is the most recent example. But almost every team that wins the World Series has a dominant closer. The setup man and closer are both, in my opinion, equally important. If either one screws up, chances are the game is lost.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
ugh
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 12, 2009 5:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Good, Lou gets it right
makes it a very similar situation to 2008 with Marmol and Wood. I’m sure Marmol will be given the oppertunity to close if Gregg faulters though
#34: You'll be missed!
Wait...
I thought Gregg wasn’t replacing Wood. Wonder what the value of the ranch is in today’s market?
Actually, a lot of people felt this way, so that isn’t fair to single one person out. But it is fun. : )
"I've got an idea...an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about." ~Peter Griffin
If Gregg performas as he has
The last couple of years I don’t see this happening at all.
Wow!!
Honesty compels me to say, that is a bold statement…..We’re probably in some trouble if that happens.
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.
by deadcatbounce on Mar 29, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Very good decision
Unless Gregg has a poor season (in terms of what you expect from him given his past couple of years) then this can work out very good for the Cubs.
Of course, that trade for Gregg makes a lot of sense now. No way were you going to give Wood 20 million guaranteed plus an option for a 3rd year. Ceda may have more upside, but right now he obviously can’t be put in the situation Gregg is going to be put in, and getting a guy who you know can at least handle the mental aspect of being a close is not so easy. The Cubs learned their leason with Hawkins, that’s for sure.
Btw, there’s an interesting article at cubreporter concerning Wood’s and Gregg’s saves from last year.
On the other hand,
we still could have signed Brandon Lyon and used Ceda in a different trade.
2009 Cubs' MVP: Derrek Lee
Does Lyon project similar to Gregg for 2009?
What do the projection systems say?
Gregg is not great but I think he is a step above from Lyon, and that step might be enough to stabilize the Cubs bullpen and not have everybody in media pressuring the Cubs to put Marmol as closer and creating controversy.
PECOTA weighted mean projections (note they are adjusted for park & league effects)
Gregg – 1.37 WHIP, 4.08 ERA
Lyon – 1.33 WHIP, 3.96 ERA
Most important when Lou P is your manager – Lyon will do that with a whole lot less free passes.
2009 Cubs' MVP: Derrek Lee
I second your recommendation of that TCR article.
I read it on Friday, and it contains some highly intriguing “alternate stats” (so to speak) for evaluating a closer. Suffice to say, I think Lou has absolutely made the right decision here.
"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09
Marmol didn't help himself this spring
Gregg will do a decent job as long as he remains the closer
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
Irrelevant
Marmol’s spring did not factor in — Lou wants to keep him in the same role. Marmol will outperform Gregg either way — just as he did Wood last year. I just hope the dissapointment won’t negatively affect Marmol — he comments seemed telling that he didn’t think he ever had a chance.
i too hope this doesn’t affect Marmol mentally. (fingers crossed)
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Mar 30, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's a good move...
particularly since I took Gregg in the 17th round of my fantasy draft after another guy took Marmol in the 7th. :)
Although in all honesty, I also agree with those who say I’d rather see Marmol coming in in the tight spots in the 7th and 8th that are often more important than what happens in the 9th.
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Mar 29, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions
I'm glad
that this decision came a day before my own draft. Otherwise I very likely might have grabbed Marmol.
Great decision
Nice going, Lou. I’d hate to see Marmol’s talent wasted on one-inning outings coming in with nobody on and nobody out to get three easy outs. I want that slider when the bases are loaded in the 7th.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Mar 29, 2009 9:19 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Very smart move
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base." - Dave Barry
by The Guy Who Accidentally Saved the World on Mar 29, 2009 10:53 PM CDT reply actions
I Love Marmol,
but under the circumstances, Gregg had to be the closer. I think Marmol can do it, and I think at some point, he will be a quality closer somewhere, hopefully here with us. For now, though, Marmol is best suited where he is. He’s like the person at work we’ve all seen (or maybe we’ve been this guy in some cases) who can’t get promoted because he or she is too good at their current job, and too valuable to the boss in their current job. It’s not fair, but it happens. But hey, if it was a competition, look at the numbers for Spring Training. Kevin Gregg simply went out and earned the job. You can’t argue with that, so I give this move my thumbs up.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
Gregg
As someone who lives in South Fla.. I have watched him pitch for the Fish and it was horrific. He cannot close for the CUBS>
Well, he's going to.
"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09
but he can't
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Mar 30, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
but he MUST pay the rent!
"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09
For those who think Marmol was overworked last year...
… he threw 87.1 innings. Jose Valverde, who led the NL in saves in 2008, threw 72 innings.
That’s 15 more innings over the course of the season — about one every ten games.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Marmol said "He can't control this"
Marmol needs to suck it up. He said he can’t control the outcome of who closes or not. YES HE CAN! A. Quit hitting batters B. Lower that ERA (4.50) C. Throw strikes-that’s what they PAY you to do. If Marmol comes in the 7th or the 8th, and we have a large lead, the closer role is a mute point. Hopefully our Offense isn’t OFFENSIVE.
"It was a wise Man that invented Beer" (Plato)
I feel for Carlos.
The guy’s had a rough spring: all the emotional uncertainty about the WBC, his rather horrifying final appearance vs. the Netherlands, his lack of control upon returning to camp, and now this. I don’t blame him for being disappointed and frustrated.
I just hope he realizes – or perhaps someone can get through to him – that he still holds a huge and very important role on this Cubs team. And just because his job title isn’t as sexy as “closer,” he’s every bit as important.
"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09
He might be thinking that he is fulfilling and has fulfilled the role you describe and that it is hugely important. It also means he will be payed less in arbitration and puts off his ability to perform for the jamboree of free agency.
He also openly expressed that he thought he had been lied to by whoever said it was an open competition.
Can you give me a link to that quote?
"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09
Thanks.
Well, what are ya gonna do? Whatever bumps in the road Carlos hits in terms of arbitration and free agency won’t change the fact that he’ll be very well compensated if he stays healthy and continues to put up the numbers he did in ’07 and ’08. Like I said, I feel for the guy. But I still think the situation has worked out for the best – for us Cubs fans anyway.
"That little kid at second base - he is after a job, isn't he?" ~ Lou Piniella, 3/9/09
I like it
placing Marmol in the closer role takes the ball out of his hands for 15-30 appearances, when he has been at his best, stopping a flood before it gets out of control.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
Gregg
I told you he is a nightmare. Cant play him ever with less than 5 run lead in ninth.
its a good thing that no other closer in Cubs history has even blown a save
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
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