How To Fix The World Baseball Classic
With Carlos Marmol's departure after yesterday's appearance, all four major league Cubs (Marmol, Ted Lilly, Geovany Soto and Kosuke Fukudome) are now off training with their WBC teams, which begin play this Thursday.
There has been much debate here and elsewhere about the WBC; people say it disrupts spring training and the season, some players have begged off, and other major league teams have prevented their players from participating, which has turned what could be a great tournament into not much more than a minor league spectacle.
The WBC is a good concept, but it has been poorly executed. So how could it be changed so that it would provide competition at the highest level at the least disruptive time?
Here's my idea. We have already seen that March, during spring training, isn't a very good time. For the same reason, February, when players aren't even totally ready for the season, would be no good. And November, after the season is over, would risk putting fatigued and tired players into a high-stress situation -- not to mention that the TV dial is filled with football at that time of year, leaving little room for baseball.
So once every three years, we're going to replace the outmoded All-Star Game, which, even with Bud Selig's silly "This Time It Counts" gimmick, has outlived its original purpose and has become a game where everyone complains about who is or isn't on the team, who plays and who doesn't, and the game isn't played at a high level. Instead, we'll turn that mid-July week into WBC Week (and, at the same time, give the World Series home field to the team with the best record, the way it should be anyway).
To make this work, the tournament will all have to be played in one city, preferably one with two major league-suitable venues, so it can be completed in four days. That would make New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and the SF Bay Area the first choices; also, after next year, places like Minneapolis and San Diego will have new baseball venues and also older stadiums that could still host baseball games. You'd still have enough travel time to play games in Asia (likely Tokyo), in years when the WBC would be scheduled there, or in one of the Latin American or Caribbean nations.
You'd still have the sixteen countries, with rosters established ahead of time, and players would know their roles even if they didn't have a chance to practice together. The regular season would break, as it does now, after a July Sunday. After a day for travel, on days one and two (Tuesday & Wednesday), you'd play four games, two in each stadium (to allow for cleanup time and resetting for game two), with staggered start times for TV purposes.
The four winners of the games the first two days would play semifinals on Thursday, and the championship game on Friday night -- a Friday night in July when virtually nothing else sports-related is on TV (it's after Wimbledon and before NFL preseason), giving worldwide exposure.
Players travel back to their major (or minor) league teams on Saturday, and the schedule could resume on Sunday, thus major league teams would only lose one summer Saturday date.
This isn't a perfect solution and I know many of you could probably find holes in my answer -- but that's why I'm posting this, to start discussion. Have at it.
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157 comments
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Comments
I think a 2 week break every 4 years in July wouldnt be that big of a problem
The WBC was first played in ’06, then again in ’09 for some reason, to continue every four years thereafter, so 2013 would be the next one, if it sticks around.
So take the lead from the NHL and take a 2 week break in the middle of the season, youd then either have to start the season earlier or end it later, or go back to 154 games.
The only problem I would see would be the weather in late march/early april or late september early/october. But perhaps they could start one week earlier and end one week later than they do now.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Mar 3, 2009 8:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The problem with a two week break...
… is, as you say, the early or late season weather. Better to do it all in one week, I think. Owners will never agree to shrink the regular season.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
unless revenue from the WBC
somehow made up for the lost 4 home games
by TC Cubby on Mar 3, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which it probably wouldn't.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 8:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It might one day
Today is not that day, of course.
by Josh77 on Mar 3, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One week on either end isnt going to matter
This year it starts on the 6th of April, theyve played the last few days of March in seasons past, so I dont think its that insurmountable
So if a two week, or even a 10 day break, is what it takes to ensure the big boys play, then I think its worth it, it would do a lot to improve its credibility in the eyes of its detractors and would be more exciting.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Mar 3, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As you noted there is already
A two week break this season…just not together.
The Season Starting on April 6 is a week later than last year and the All Star Break Week.
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Mar 3, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't amount to a "two week break".
Yes, the season starts a week later. It also ends a week later. That’s not an extra week.
The All-Star break is three days, as it has been for decades, not a week.
So where do you get a two-week break?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They factored
in an extra week into the schedule this year for the WBC – that is Week One. If they start the season at the end of March like they did last year and keep the end of the season like this year’s, they can apply this extra week in July.
As far as the All Star Break…I misspoke. However, if they adopt your new plan, it would be almost two weeks…
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Mar 3, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, they didn't factor an extra week in for the WBC.
The season starts a week later and ends a week later. Check last year’s calendar and this year’s. The regular season is exactly the same length.
The additional week is during spring training — it’s a week longer. There are 39 games, about 7-8 more per team than last year.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are arguing semantics. Yes the regular season is the same length but Spring Training + Regular Season is longer by 1 week then it was last year. Yes the extra week is in Spring Training but the extra week was because of the WBC. All I am saying is that If they start the regular season at the time same they did last year but keep the ending time of this year’s season, there is essentially an extra week to play with during the Regular Season. If they choose, they could apply that extra week before the traditional All Star Break and then spill into the traditional All Star Break as required.
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Mar 3, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They could, but that's not what happened.
If there hadn’t been a WBC, the spring season would have started a week later, because they deliberately delayed the regular season because they didn’t want it to start on March 29.
You’re right, it was because of the WBC. But the length of the regular season is exactly the same as last year.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
eh, I think this idea seems worse
Teams are scared when players play in just one game, as in the All-star game. Make it a week of meaningless games in the middle of the season then there will be Hell to pay from the owners.
#34: You'll be missed!
by Chanman25 on Mar 3, 2009 8:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Injuries can happen any time.
Look at what happened to Ivan DeJesus Jr. yesterday — good prospect, broken bone, probably out for the year, in a spring training game.
This would be only once every 3 years. If the owners want the WBC, at least do it when it can get some attention and doesn’t disrupt the season.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 8:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes!
This is what I’ve been saying all along about people who scream about injuries in the WBC.
Guys get hurt all the time. Players get hurt in spring training. There’s no evidence that they would be more likely to get hurt in the WBC than in spring training.
If I recall, in the last WBC there was one serious injury—to Luis Ayala. He had to undergo TJ surgery which means, of course, that his arm was probably ready to go at anytime and if it hadn’t gotten injured during the WBC, it would have likely happened in a game in April.
by Josh77 on Mar 3, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank You!
Ive been saying this all winter, Dice-K was the MVP last time around and only pitched 13 innings, so there isnt much opportunity for overuse
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Mar 3, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IMHO
The problem with the whole concept is, as it usually is, money. The opportunity cost, millions of dollars per player for some, is too large for a vast majority of the probable participants to make the WBC feasible in any permutation. The only, only, only way that thing would ever work in a manner in which you could guarantee that the best players in the world were indeed competing against one another for country, would be if MLB ceased to exist. Not something I would want to see for the sake of a silly, meaningless and completely contrived event.
It’s all about money…period.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Mar 3, 2009 8:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
insurance
or within baseball, where teams are compensated for salary payments during time missed by a player who was injured during the wbc.
I think all of these issues boil down to one thing—how badly do the owner’s want this? I think we will be able to see in the aftermath of this year’s let-down whether the WBC is a Bud Selig thing or an owner thing
by TC Cubby on Mar 3, 2009 8:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
New box
Now you’ve opened another box, not entirely related to the game of baseball. Yes, insurance would be available but premiums would be ridiculous and neither players nor owners would want to pay them. For that matter, insurance companies would grind out paying on claims as if their lives depended on it. Pre-existings would be at an all-time high. Easy solution on paper, but still not very feasible.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Mar 3, 2009 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The break would have to coincide with the Nippon Professional Baseball (Japan's MLB)
At first glance, I don’t see a break in July like the MLB.
Are we so arrogant that everything revolves around American baseball and our schedules?
"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."
by flachimesa on Mar 3, 2009 8:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
True.
You’d have to ask NPB to have the same break. If they’re interested in participating, they’d do it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 8:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't they build in a break for the Olympics in 2008?
It seems that they have wanted to send their best teams to international competitions in the past, so I don’t think it’d be a major hurdle to clear.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Mar 3, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, they didn't...
… if they had, major leaguers would have come. That’s why baseball isn’t in the Olympics any more.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Nippon Baseball League didn't build in a break?
That’s surprising.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Mar 3, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, you meant NPB?
I thought you meant MLB. I misread your post. I don’t know if NPB did or not.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I should have clarified.
Yeah, I knew MLB didn’t clear room on the schedule, which is why the Terry Tiffees of the world were in Beijing.
Looking at the NPB schedule, they didn’t take a break, but according to Wikipedia:
As to reduce the interference to teams whose main players would play in the Olympic games, this year’s trade and new foreign players deadlines were pushed to the end of July, instead of the end of June. Also, teams having more than three players selected by National teams were given an extra quota of foreign player limit during the Olympic Games.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Mar 3, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hold the first one in Tokyo
and they’d agree to the break. Unfortunately, that would kill US TV ratings.
by Josh77 on Mar 3, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Arrogance?
Please…
The MLB is the (underlined) baseball league that every single player in the world wants/works to play in. Whatever you think of the US or its brand of baseball, it’s baseball league (MLB) is the pinnacle where the elite (even Bob Howry) from around the world come to play.
So, to answer your question, yes everything pertaining to the WBC (instituted by American baseball to begin with) should revolve around American baseball and “our” schedules for the simple reason that all other leagues are subpar in comparison.
by Zonk on Mar 3, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
one fault i see
is more top tier pitchers would elect out for a break in the middle of the season to rest their arm, and it would become a HR Derby of MLB hitters vs. AA pitchers
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 3, 2009 8:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The point is, though...
… that you’d have enough pitchers available that no one would have to “take a break”. Each country would play no more than three games (first round, semifinal, championship). No starting pitcher would pitch more than once. I don’t think this would be too much of a burden.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 8:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think some might want to, in fact.
If only for the reason that they’d get a little bit of work in and stay sharper than by doing nothing.
by MN exile on Mar 3, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
dissapointed
I think the games of the WBC are going to be good, however the amount of players dropping out is embarassing. I think it would be the same no matter when it was held. A player isn’t going to risk injury when they are making the kind of money these guys make.
Baseball just missed the boat by not creating this about 30 years earlier. The World Cup in soccer is someting kids dream about playing in, the WBC is going to have to be around a lot longer to get that kind of credibility.
by jeff_pico on Mar 3, 2009 8:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
True, but
there would have been a lot less countries 30 years ago that would be able to field a team, and probably none good enough to even be on the same field as the U.S. team. Obviously that has changed now, similar to the way the U.S. could win an international basketball tournament like the Olympics just by showing up. Things have changed. 30 years ago, in baseball, you could have had teams from some of the Latin American countries and Japan. That’s pretty much it.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
by ctcoff99 on Mar 3, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Many players' contracts have All Star Game clauses...
They make money by being selected to the ASG. I like your idea a lot, Al, but there are many ticky-tack things like this to consider, and I doubt the Players’ Union would go along with it.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on Mar 3, 2009 8:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
ASG clauses could be replaced by WBC clauses.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That would encourage participation, but there are so many players needed for the WBC
Would the players be willing to take a lower bonus? Because the owners won’t agree to give the same bonus to a star player and a fringe major league guy who makes the Italian team.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really think a mid-Nov thing will work
Football is only Sat/Sun and let’s face it, this isn’t an America-is-the-center-of-the-universe event. We should take a good hard look at this thinking that way.
Yes there are tired players all over the place, but only 2 teams are in the WS and 8 in the playoffs to boot. That means there’s players from 22 teams that haven’t played since end of Sept or so. Then there’s all kinds of other players on the other teams that don’t even play in MLB.
An event that runs 2+ weeks (covering 3 weekends) ending shortly before the US Thanksgiving holiday could work, and they could start doing this in November, 2011 and do it every 2 years instead of 3.
The next tournament after this is a 32-month interval and then it goes to a 24-month interval. Each country can recruit their players, knowing now it won’t interfere with getting ready for MLB’s season. And to boot there will be even more interest by other countries since it is so much important to them than the US and even more of their players would be inclined to play.
The only draw-back to this time of year versus mid-MLB season is the number of cities that can host these games. The Mid-West could only see Miller Park game for instance.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Mar 3, 2009 8:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's not played in America.
Move the tournament to the Caribbean if it needs to be played in US time zones. Almost all of Japan’s stadiums are domed, so they could host, too. Plus, playing games in Japan (or Korea) would open up baseball forays into India and China.
South Africa and Australia could also be host countries in November, as it’s spring there.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Mar 3, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With a November Schedule
you run across the same conflicts with scheduling during the Caribbean seasons. Again, this might not be an issue if everyone could come to an agreement; however, it would be much more difficult to coordinate due to the number of leagues, as opposed to only having to work out an agreement with Japan during the normal U.S. season. Maybe it wouldn’t be as much of an issue because these leagues get going during the playoffs anyway; but, it is something to consider.
by sevan on Mar 3, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your idea
especially about the tiredness of the players. Come on, nearly half of those players would have rested for a month, and probably 5-10 max would play in the WS, so thats a non issue in my eyes
#34: You'll be missed!
by Chanman25 on Mar 3, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like the idea...
….that it be played instead of All-Star game. I love watching the All-Star game and HR derby. It’s fun to see the players relax and have fun and goof around with each other. I don’t like the WBC much. I understand it would only be once every 3 or 4 years, but alot of the stars of today’s game bypass the WBC. If all the stars played, like they do in the ASG, then I’d be all for it, but until then, I would much rather have ASG than WBC.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Mar 3, 2009 9:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thats the point of moving
To attract more players, if it were in July, they’d all be in mid-season form, so there would be less concern of injury due to ramping it up too soon, so one could safely assume that would attract more top guys.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Mar 3, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny you say this because
With the exception of American players, all the other all stars spend most of the home run derby waving their national flags and expressing their national pride in someway or the other.
by xene on Mar 3, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather disrupt meaningless ST games.....
vs. a two week hiatus in the middle of the season thus extending play deeper into November. Absurd!
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Mar 3, 2009 9:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I only suggest a one-week break...
… which would be two days longer than the current All-Star break. Hardly that disruptive.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected......
but I still don’t want my team playing in the WBC in the middle of the season when they should be focusing on winning the division
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Mar 3, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't be your "team."
It would be a few players from your team.
My sig line is out for jury duty.
by dat cubfan daver on Mar 3, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's distracting.....
for all players and that would = TEAM
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Mar 3, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At the risk of sounding
Either like a complete jerk or a cynic - Just let it die. It was a poorly executed concept for a sport that has a hell of a long season (and a well established training period) already. Sometimes you just can’t have it all. Thats why we have Football and Basketball in the offseason. I don’t have a problem with the idea of replacing the ASG with some shadow of the WBC, but that too presents issues ie; pitchers reluctant to play, risk of injury to position players, etc. IMO, the WBC would be a far different scenario from the ASG, which is akin to a celebrity pro-am. Certain key players for the season play in a glorified minor league game for a couple innings-make thier appearance and then split. The WBC would likely be far more competative — and could very well make everyone realize how boring and dull the ASG is.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 9:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
With the current MLB schedule the WBC doesn't work.
Until they cut down spring training and the regular season there will be issues with scheduling, it is that simple.
I will not try and come up with a solution because I don’t think there is one; before, during, or after the season.
I'm finally moving on...
by slocs55 on Mar 3, 2009 10:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why would my solution not work schedule-wise?
Be specific.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The timing could probably be made to work but I think more players, especially pitchers, would choose to opt out. At that point of the season they’d prefer to have a few days rest rather than play a series of semi-allstar games. The managers and coaches also would encourage their key players to take it easy rather than compete during the break.
by txtom on Mar 3, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's no format you can come up with
Under which every player will play (unless you force them to). I have no problem with some players opting out; the idea, though, is to try to minimize that.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
enough players opt out of the one game for ASG
how many would opt out of multiple, when you include flying around the world to Japan for the week, and having to alter their sleep hours, etc.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 3, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you'd have a lot more players....
trying to beg out of it during July than you do now in Spring Training for a couple of reasons. First, they have already been playing a grueling scheduling for three months (four and a half if you count ST) and playing the WBC over the All-Star break gives the players no break at all. Second, by July, you pretty much know which teams are going to contend for the postseason, and which ones are just playing out the schedule. Players on contending teams, I think, are going to get a lot more pressure from managers and GM’s to not participate, to save themselves for the stretch drive.
Look at the situation with Carlos Marmol, where Piniella was being as supportive as he could to make sure Marmol was able to do what he felt was best. If this were July, I guarantee Piniella makes that decision for him. And the decision is, “you’re not going anywhere, kid!” That’s just one example that comes to mind.
To make the scheduling work, the two pro leagues that you have to schedule around are the U.S. Major Leagues, and the Nippon League in Japan. I say that not because I’m an arrogant American, but these are, without a doubt, the two most prominent pro leagues in the world, and also the only two that have to schedule around cold weather (or play only in domed stadiums in winter). Also, most of the players in the Caribbean league will gladly play any time the event is scheduled, because their goal is to get to America anyway, for a shot at the big money.
Now, having said all that, I think it has to be done in either the spring or fall. We’ve tried it in the spring, and this year, we’ve already seen the best players in the world (who are in the U.S. Major Leagues, regardless of what their home country is) choosing not to participate. I say, let’s try it in the fall, in November, when even the issue of injuries goes away for the most part. An injury in November still allows three months of rehab before players even report to Spring Training. The WBC is a good concept. It just needs some tinkering to the schedule to find out when it can best work. And I think November is the best time.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
by ctcoff99 on Mar 3, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see players wanting to or teams
wanting their players to be traveling all the way to Japan to play exhibition games during the season. If a player has any sort of ailment, and what player doesn’t at the mid-way point of the season, at least half of them will take a pass on the classic for rest. If this isn’t something that most of the top players want to play in, I’m not interested.
So here are the problems as I see it with the different possibilities of planning the WBC…
With the WBC being before the season in its current setup, pitchers in particular aren’t ready for this type of work; therefore for the rest of year we will hear how the WBC had a negative effect on certain players/teams. Having the Classic in the middle of the season means a large percentage of the players will pass for rest as I mentioned above. Having it at the end of the season won’t work because fans will not be interested in baseball past the World Series. The Series in itself doesn’t always garner a lot of interest nationally, couple that with football and baseball season being over in the mind of most. Also, players will be worn down which increases the chance of injury. (mostly thinking about pitchers as alwasy)
I see the WBC lasting maybe one more time…unless spring training and the regular season is shortened. It is a nice idea, but just doesn’t work.
I'm finally moving on...
by slocs55 on Mar 3, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fangraphs
Dave Cameron at Fangraphs came up with pretty much exactly the same idea a week ago:
by Old Style & Ivy on Mar 3, 2009 10:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.
Truth: I never read that. Great minds think alike, I guess.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No problem
Now it’s just a race to see who can bring it to market first!
by Old Style & Ivy on Mar 3, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What a striking similarity
It might be a good idea to link that article at the bottom of yours, Al. It looks like your concept is almost exactly the same as the one Cameron published on February 24th. It might give readers a little different look at the same concept.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Mar 3, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll do that.
Seriously, I had no idea that article was posted, and yes, it’s very similar.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe you......
but his article doesn’t make it a good alternative
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Mar 3, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're disrupting the regular season...
…it can slow down momentum, it can be harder on the guys who aren’t on the WBC teams to come back..IMO, it’s just not a good idea, just my opinion though.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Mar 3, 2009 10:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I like your idea, Al.
As I suspect many baseball fans are, I’m struggling to come to terms with the WBC. I pretty much ignored it the first time around. I’m paying more attention now, but I’m conflicted. I don’t want to dismiss the idea outright because I think it does raise baseball’s visibility worldwide and, clearly, many players (such as Carlos Marmol) feel a strong pull to represent their home countries.
But, as you and many others point out, the tournament is a huge disruption and distraction during spring training. And, at the risk of contradicting myself, many players clearly don’t relish the chance to represent their respective countries enough to risk their well-being playing in full-on competition in March.
Another advantage to moving the WBC to midseason might be to draw more U.S. interest. I’m guessing there are a lot of baseball fans in this country who, unlike most of us, aren’t paying attention to the game during spring training, much less year-round. Yet, by the All-Star Break, more of America may be in “baseball mode” and willing to check out the WBC.
Meanwhile, the All-Star Game has become a bit of a farce, with its questionable rosters and lame “home field advantage” booby prize. Perhaps we’d all appreciate the All-Star Game a little more if we got a break from it every few years.
So, yeah, sign me up.
My sig line is out for jury duty.
by dat cubfan daver on Mar 3, 2009 10:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
A break from the ASG? Really?
I’m one of those who really enjoy the ASG and would much rather watch that than the WBC.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Mar 3, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And you'd still have your AS
My sig line is out for jury duty.
by dat cubfan daver on Mar 3, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
D'oh - posting miscue! Let's try this again...
And you’d still have your ASG, you’d just have something different every few years. Variety is, after all, the spice of life.
My sig line is out for jury duty.
by dat cubfan daver on Mar 3, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I think the WBC would be far more competative than the ASG is. The ASG game has become a lazy boring spectacle, tradition yes, but fun? No so much. Not sure I like the whole week long WBC idea…but I guess there would be no other way to shrink it down anymore. I dunno exclude all the sucky countries’ teams?
I keed, I keed.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With a one-week window, you could play in regional stadiums, too.
I know, Al, your proposal has all the games occurring in one city over the week, but what about having preliminary rounds in nearby cities. For instance, if Chicago was the host, games could be played in Detroit, Milwaukee or even Minneapolis.
Also, if needed, some of today’s Minor League stadiums could be used as well. For instance, Indianapolis’ stadium can hold 14,000 fans. Sure, it’s not a lot when compared to Major League parks, but is an Italy-Netherlands game going to attract that many people?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Mar 3, 2009 11:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
My biggest problem with the WBC is its lack of real meaning
The idea is actually a good one, but its also one that is extremely flawed. People talk about national pride and things like that when it comes to this thing and I just don’t get it. This isn’t the Olympics or even the World Cup (which people like to compare it to). Soccer players leave their club teams to play for their country because in soccer country pride is more important than team pride. That isn’t the case in baseball.
How many of you would rather have Team USA win the WBC than the Cubs win the World Series? The only country that could say that is the case is Japan, which does get full participation, and thats why they won last time.
The injury concerns get down played by some, but I think they are very real. Pitching is the most unnatural sports motion. Soccer players don’t have a limit to how many kicks they can make. Basketball players don’t have a limited number of shots they can take before they get injured. Pitchers only have so many bullets in the gun and they shouldn’t be throwing 5 innings in the WBC when they should be throwing 2 or 3 in spring training. Why waste valuable September/October/November (if we are so lucky) pitches in March? Why should a team let its player go risk injury in a meaningless exhibition game that isn’t under team control?
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 11:16 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
You say
that “soccer country pride” is more important that team pride, but that isn’t the case in baseball.
What you need to acknowledge is that this wasn’t always the case. In the 1930s when the Football World Cup started, it was a tiny operation that is dwarfed by the WBC today.
The pride in playing football for your country was a product of the World Cup, not the other way around.
And if you had seen the South Korean/Japan games in the WBC last season, I don’t think you could seriously make that claim anyway.
by Josh77 on Mar 3, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, so then how come
Baseball has little or no support as an Olympic event?. Maybe because most American baseball fans don’t give a damn about it played country against country? Ok gross generalization but I agree with nji232, MLB/Cubs Winning the WS means alot more to me than a USA baseball team winning the WBC. Soccer’s WorldCup may have had humble beginnings, but lets face it — its made for nationalistic pride, its a case of necessity being the mother of invention. I don’t think baseball fits this mold.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem here is you fall into the same mindset some have above
That’s a very America-centric view. I love watching/listening to some of the Central America and Asia games, because they mean so much to the players.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The success of this thing is dependent on the United States liking it
Thats where the money comes from. If the US isn’t watching/participating rating will go down, TV won’t be onboard and it all falls apart.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All the more reason to move the WBC to midseason...
…when more Americans are likely to be thinking baseball.
My sig line is out for jury duty.
by dat cubfan daver on Mar 3, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well it would help I am sure
But the kinks of potential injuries and big star MLB players not participating would be hard to overcome, IMHO.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to tell whether the U.S. interest is there or not, at least on the part of fans
ESPN and MLB made it almost impossible to watch last time, with almost all of the games either weekday afternoon games or tape-delayed.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and wat dat cubfan daver said
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
making the whole thing more meaningless
Its not on TV at the right time so that people who want to watch can enjoy it.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a fixable problem
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I agree
I am just another small minded American sports fan (drone). And I am not suggesting that WBC or games played in other countries are not interesting or exciting to watch. What I am saying is that MLB is my passion, every other baseball venture, from high school, the minors, to the WBC is secondary. And I think alot of fans fall into this category, unless we can petition Lord almighty for another month in the year I think it is doomed to failure — at least for American support.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say you were small minded
Stop the persecution bit. You said one reason international baseball doesn’t work is “because most American baseball fans don’t give a damn about it played country against country.” Right or wrong, that’s an America-centric reason for opposing it. Don’t try to protect your statement from a legitimate point by saying anyone who points that out is calling you a drone — because I didn’t say that.
MLB is my passion, too. Yes, I want the Cubs to win the WS, and if I were being completely honest, I would have to admit that it’s more important to me than the USA winning the WBC. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to watch both. Personally, yes, I’d rather watch a WBC game than a Cubs ST game.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But what if that WBC game is possibly hurting the Cubs chance to win the WS
If Marmol’s elbow snaps because he is asked to get a two inning- high pressure save in the semi-finals, how will you feel?
That situation would never exist in ST.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wut? His elbow could snap while playing long toss, warming up, playing Wii Bowling....
I don’t buy the “what if he gets hurt” argument….unless we’re talking about DHL.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 3, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol already racked up innings in winter ball for no reason
Stressful innings in march are much more likely to cause an injury than a stress free third inning in a ST game.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's competing for one of the most important pitching jobs on the team
I don’t think he’s going to be taking it too easy out there.
And in a lot of cases, there’s only so much stress your arm can take. If that’s the case, a pop in the WBC is probably only hastening a pop that would have happened in April, when the club has less time to find a replacement.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, so you think its better Marmol get hurt now and just get it over with
Honestly, I’m almost certain Marmol is going to get some solid DL time this season. The man has had his arm abused all winter after he got abused all summer. It would be amazing if he didn’t get a minor injury, I just don’t want to speed up the process.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you so flippin' freaked out that Marmol is going to get hurt anyway?
What about Soto? He stands a much better chance of getting injured as a catcher…let’s hyperventilate about him shall we?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 3, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Marmol's arm has been overused for the last year
With almost no break
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A few innings in the WBC won't change that
And, no, it makes no difference to me if he gets injured in ST or early in the season or if he gets injured in the WBC. He’s hurt and not of use to the team either way.
Personally, yes — if he’s going to get hurt, I say sooner rather than later.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a persecution bit
I thought it more self-depricating humor. It certainly is American-centric, and I’m just trying to be honest. I would love to say that I have this larger world view, where I am intensely interested in other countries’ national baseball teams, but seriously I would be kidding myself. Not saying your calling me a drone either – those are my words.
If its on TV at a time when I am awake I will certainly watch it, but with a casual interest. It may be dissapointing but I really believe there are alot of fans like me, just not that into the WBC, its a shiny thing…but not enough to keep the attention that long.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The solution....more Erin Andrews in the WBC!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 3, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pure genius.
n/t
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would watch if she were there
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll just say good idea
Further comment/suggestions will get me in trouble with the womenfolk.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
She looks like she's headed to a very stylish women's prison in that shirt.
Man, I’d like to see that movie.
My sig line is out for jury duty.
by dat cubfan daver on Mar 3, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
These national baseball teams will be made up
of some of the best MLB ( your passion, remember?) players.
by xene on Mar 3, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Theoretically
In practice not so much…here we go falling back into the issue of non-participation and whether it is good or bad for MLB teams.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which takes away from national pride
Soto is playing for Puerto Rico, so don’t I want him to win? But that means I root against the USA.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nji, you have no national pride when it comes to baseball.
by xene on Mar 3, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No I don't
I hate most of the players on team USA. Jeter is my least favorite player ever to play baseball.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Toss me in that too
I refuse to convince myself that somehow I have to love Team USA, just because it is my Country of origin.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I said that the Japanese team did take national pride
Thats why they won, because them and Cuba cared the most. Never, ever, ever in the United States will the WBC mean more than each persons MLB team. Japan, South Korea, and Cuba played their pros in the Olympics anyway, so if you want international baseball (which the world obviously didn’t because they canceled baseball in the Olympics) ask for Olympic baseball back.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
by nji232 on Mar 3, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 3, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The other suggestion
which I think is a better one, is to hold for ten days in April and then simply have a few double headers that season and extend the season a few days. You could even make them day/night double headers so that the owners don’t lose much of the gate.
I do believe the start of the season is the proper time for it. But delaying the start of the regular season for ten days or so is probably the right time for it.
by Josh77 on Mar 3, 2009 11:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
You'd have to make them split DH to keep the revenue.
But everyone hates them — players, broadcasters, other team employees.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's what I meant
But I think people would prefer them to missing a week in the middle of July.
by Josh77 on Mar 3, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody saw it
because it was on ESPN tape delay in the middle of the night, but one of the best baseball games I ever saw was the South Korea/Japan semi-final game at Angel Stadium in the last WBC.
The stadium was rocking as much as the Angels 2002 World Series win. (And the Japanese fans were greatly outnumbered, I might add.) When South Korea won, the players rushed the field and among the celebration, planted the South Korean flag on the pitcher’s mound, Iwo-Jima style.
Don’t tell me that baseball players don’t care about playing for their country.
by Josh77 on Mar 3, 2009 11:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Baseball players probably do
But alot American baseball fans don’t.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But maybe they will
after this thing gets run a few times.
by Josh77 on Mar 3, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well hopefully
someone figures it all out so that can happen. Otherwise it turns into a lame failure that will likely be blamed on us, for not supporting it.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that your issue?
You’re afraid someone will think it’s your fault? :-)
If it fails, it is not the fans’ fault and anyone who says so is a moron not worth listening to.
by Josh77 on Mar 3, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No not my issue
Really just an afterthought to finish my comment. hehe
I would just prefer to see a cool resolution, for which I have no better alternatives than have been discussed.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Related programming note.
Team USA will be playing the New York Yankees today. The game will be available to mlb.tv subscribers. It doesn’t appear MLB Network will carry it. I’m not sure about ESPN.
My sig line is out for jury duty.
by dat cubfan daver on Mar 3, 2009 11:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Heh...the MLB Network wont even broadcast MLB's own pet project.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 3, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh wait...I was mistaken, actually.
The MLB Network will carry today’s Team USA vs. New York Yankees game. I missed it in the schedule. Coverage starts at 1 pm EST, though it is “subject to blackout.”
My sig line is out for jury duty.
by dat cubfan daver on Mar 3, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what the blackout map for Team USA looks like?
Only people in Tonga can see this game?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 3, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tonga and Swaziland are in the clear.
The rest of us can pound sand.
My sig line is out for jury duty.
by dat cubfan daver on Mar 3, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But what if one of the Yankees players gets hurt?
Then is it the fault of the World Baseball Classic or Spring Training?
I’m so confused …
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry...Yankees pitchers won't run the bases.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 3, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's only one problem I see here
You’d still have the sixteen countries, with rosters established ahead of time, and players would know their roles even if they didn’t have a chance to practice together. The regular season would break, as it does now, after a July Sunday. After a day for travel, on days one and two (Tuesday & Wednesday), you’d play four games, two in each stadium (to allow for cleanup time and resetting for game two), with staggered start times for TV purposes.
The four winners of the games the first two days would play semifinals on Thursday, and the championship game on Friday night — a Friday night in July when virtually nothing else sports-related is on TV (it’s after Wimbledon and before NFL preseason), giving worldwide exposure.
Four first-round games = Eight teams.
Pool play is how they work things down in the first two rounds. I’m not sure how to fix that, unless maybe you use the first two days for pool play in several stadiums in some area (i.e., Atlanta and the two Florida stadiums one year; NE stadiums another year; MW stadiums another year; West stadiums another year), then take the winner of each pool and plug them into the semifinals.
Or just extend things by a round somehow. I’m not sure how.
Or go down to eight teams. I’m not really sure why Australia or South Africa need a team, other than to get to 16.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 11:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Basically, I'm suggesting a single elimination tournament.
I actually screwed it up. It was supposed to have only four games — so you’re right, it needs to be eight countries, not 16. Or maybe you could have some be regions, like “Europe” for areas that don’t have a lot of players.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look
Its not as though I am dead-set against the WBC. I just cannot wrap my brain around how it can work, and also gain the support from the U.S that it needs to survive. My own flagging interest and that of other baseball fans I know, suggests to me that, as others have suggested, American fans are far more interested in watching MLB.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 12:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The bottom line here....
is that we Americans (I can’t speak for other countries) are creatures of habit, and baseball fans in particular, are very protective of TRADITION. Baseball is a much more “traditional” game, it seems, than the other pro sports. Like George Carlin said, “Baseball is a pastoral, nineteenth century game. Football is a technological twentieth-century struggle.” And the fact that Americans have become accustomed to the baseball schedule the way it is for a minimum of five generations, well, you just don’t have that kind of history in other countries with the game. If there is one country where you’re going to get pushback for messing with the schedule, it’s here in the country that invented the game. We are, simply put, very resistant to any changes with “our” game. I guarantee you, you start messing with European football scheduling, and you’re going to be fighting off an angry mob of British, Italians, French, and Germans. So let’s not make Americans out to be the only ones that are naturally protective of our National Pastime.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
by ctcoff99 on Mar 3, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 3, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well in the case of the WBC
I do think that us as Americans are the most resistant — as you suggest. So in that sense we agree, I never said that it makes us different from any other country (and the way they view their sacred sports).
So just to be clear I am not “make[ing] Americans out to be the only ones that are naturally protective of [their] National Pastime.”
When the powers that be figure out how to make it work within the confines of pre-season and regular season baseball, then I will gladly jump behind it. As the WBC is now, for me it will remain a casual diversion.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, a traditional schedule
Would include just 154 games, multiple pre-scheduled double headers, no interleague games … oh, and travel breaks so the players could make the long train rides between cities.
Things change. Deal.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it is just tradition
And your point is well made. Things do change, but change will take time, time that the WBC may not have to prove viable. Unless someone comes up with a really ingenius way to make it work and garner U.S. fan support, I think it fades into the sunset.
I do not wish that to happen, but it just seems like it could be likely.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Mar 3, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
:O
I for one, will be looking forward towards the WBC. Go Mexico!
by Nooblet on Mar 3, 2009 12:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
One can't compare the WBC with the FIFA World Cup
I believe the appropriate comparison should be the FIBA World Championship.
Players who keep in shape (hopefully 99 percent of them) should be able to play at a decent level in January, in the Caribbean, Mexico or Japan—or domed stadiums in the U.S.
With a little bit of tinkering and time, the WBC should become an event players, managers, execs, and, more importantly, fans look forward to.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Mar 3, 2009 12:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How about....
The group rounds are played during the first couple of months and then during the All Star break the elimination rounds are played. You could probably schedule a couple of games in March, April, May and June. It would mean that the players selected for these games miss one or two seasons games. Thats not too bad.
by xene on Mar 3, 2009 1:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Al
Al I really like this idea.
I’m in the camp of thinking the concept of the WBC is a great idea but just done badly.
It is scaring me that I have been agreeing with you on basically every issue :).
Never underestimate the power of a redhead!
by cubstoseriesby100 on Mar 3, 2009 1:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Let's figure out how to.........
change the NLDS to best-of-seven, so the Cubs win at least one or two playoff games, instead of trying to fix the meaningless WBC
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Mar 3, 2009 1:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The length of the NLDS has nothing to do with the Cubs not winning.
It’s not playing good baseball. Other teams have no trouble winning 5-game series. The Cubs shouldn’t, either.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 3, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it doesn't but......
but my mathematical skills, and I use that term loosely, says the odds of winning one or two games in a 7 vs. a 5 game series greater
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Mar 3, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care about winning one or two games
I care about winning as many as necessary to advance to the next level.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
by cocknfire on Mar 3, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And if it were 7 games
the Cubs would be on a post-season losing streak of 11 games instead of 9.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Mar 3, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point Mr. Positive
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Mar 3, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The truth is often unpleasant.
This, unfortunately, is one of those times.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
by ctcoff99 on Mar 3, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be 10 instead of 9
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Mar 3, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
7-game series in '07 AND '08
You’re confusing your emotions with my facts…
Did you watch any of these last 6 games?
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Mar 3, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wrong
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Mar 3, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No you're wrong ...
and you failed 3rd grade math.
They are presently on a NINE game losing streak dating to the ’03 NLCS.
If there were 7-game series in the 1st round, they would have lost FOUR straight games instead of THREE in 2007. Their streak would have been 7 games at the end of 2007.
Then another 7-game series in the 1st round last year, losing 4 straight would bring it to ELEVEN.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Mar 4, 2009 6:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yabbut...
… you can’t assume they would have been swept in a four-game series each of the last two years.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 4, 2009 7:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course that's so
And I know what happens when one assumes something.
I was taking the pessimistic view that even if there were 7-game series, not only would they have lost those series, they would have been swept in each one.
I tell you, Joe Torre is a genius. Just that statement he made of all the pressure on the Cubs I think really got into the players’ heads.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Mar 4, 2009 8:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that.
Lou tried to get them to tune everything out, but I think when he benched everyone for most of the last week of the regular season, they lost their edge — and then almost anything would have pushed them OVER the edge. Which is, of course, exactly what happened.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 4, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wrong
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Mar 3, 2009 4:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The big problem is this
You can’t hold a good baseball tournament in one week. If they tried to do that, they’d probably have to reduce the teams — say, do a preliminary round towards the end of the spring to pare it down to four teams, and then do the finals in July.
I think the best solution would be to cut a few games out of the schedule, get some compensation to the owners out of that, and carve out two weeks in July for the WBC. If the players actually PLAY, there’s a lot of money in such a tournament. Yes, the season would start and end earlier and later respectively, but we’re only talking a handful of days on either end.
The tournament itself would function just fine as five four-team double elimination tournaments. Split sixteen teams into four groups — just like this year — and it will take 4/5 days to determine a champion for that group. Then, you run one more double elimination bracket with the remaining four teams, and you have a world baseball champion. Factor in a travel day between the preliminary rounds and the final rounds, and you’re talking a maximum of 11 days for the tournament.
Or if you wanted, you could even shorten it to a 8/9 day competition with a single bracket for all 16 teams, which may wind up working out better.
In either case, though, interrupting the middle of the season for the WBC makes perfect sense to me as a fan. I get to see my favorite sport holding a true “world” championship, with all their players in top form. In exchange, the owners give up less than two weeks of time once every four years.
If the powers that be want the WBC taken seriously, they’re going to have to move it to a time that’s encourages a higher level of play, even if it’s somewhat inconveniencing.
by gjdow on Mar 3, 2009 6:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
2-round system advantage
If you do the 11-day two-round system, it lets you get five different cities in on the act, each with 4-5 days of games and 6-7 games. Not bad, especially since it maxes out at two games/day, making one venue perfectly feasible.
by gjdow on Mar 3, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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