Sarasota Bound?
by cmerun0526 on Mar 31, 2009 10:29 AM CDT
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PrintI read in my local newspaper a few Sundays ago that the Cubbies' new ownership team is contemplating relocating the club's spring training complex from Arizona to Florida. The move wouldn't happen until 2010 at the earliest, due to the lease of Hohokam Park and their existing complex. I am unsure as to the benefit of relocating the team to an area that has, in the past 5 to 10 years or so, seen many of their "Grapefruit League" members move to the "Cactus League".
I believe that there is a strong following for the Cubs in south Florida, and that their moving to the area would be a terriffic boost to the local economy. The climate is perfect for getting ready for baseball, with its balmy temperatures and relative humidity.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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There's no way the Cubs are moving to Florida.
I’ll have much more to say about this later in the week.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I hope you are right
Arizona is so much better than Florida and getting better each year with the added teams.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
I agree. The biggest problem with Florida is the travel time between cities for games. Why would the Cubs want to leave AZ where most teams play within a stones throw of each other to go to a place where long bus rides become the routine. This is the major reason why other teams have bailed out of Florida.
I believe this is just a bargaining tool to convince Mesa or some other Phoenix area city to build a new facility.
Except...
…this is completely false. Most teams play in Florida (as in Arizona) within 3 hours of each other by car.
Are there longer trips? Yes, I’m sure the longest possible trip wouldn’t be a picnic. But the majority of the teams play in the Ft. Myers-Sarasota-Tampa-Clearwater-St. Pete-Orlando-Kissimmee corridor, which takes maybe 3 hours to drive from end to end. Depending on traffic, it could take longer to drive from Wrigley to Comiskey than that.
Three hours...
… is about two hours longer than ANY commute between spring training towns in Arizona, except Tucson.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
and those three hour trips seldom happen.
In Arizona, all but two teams are in one big group centered around Phoenix. In Florida, there are several groups across the state with smaller number of teams in each group, but they tend to play more games against each other instead of making enough long trips to play everyone. So I think the Florida travel reality is more akin to what the Phoenix-based teams have been doing in the past – most of their games in the Phoenix area with a couple trips to Tuscon.
To wit – Cincinnati (this year is their last in Sarasota) has two trips to Kissimmee (near Orlando) to play Houston (2-2.5 hrs). All their other away games are either north to the Tampa St. Pete area (maybe 45 min max) or south to Port Charlotte/Ft. Myers (hour max).
Very rarely will a Gulf coast team cross the entire state to play an Atlantic coast team. Those are the 3 hour+ trips, there aren’t many good/direct east-west routes and that’s why they rarely happen.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
But they have a game in New York on Friday
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 31, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Eventually they have to leave...season starts Sunday
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson
Yawn
Let me see, moving to a place where other teams are leaving or staying in a place that other teams are flocking too…
Maybe the Cubs should just move to Tucson, NOT.
Agreed with everyone else, the Cubs will not leave AZ, and for that matter I doubt they leave Mesa. Mesa, is already considering using future appropriations as collaterial on new or vastly upgraded facilities in Mesa.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Talk of the move smells like a bargaining chip, plain and simple.
To make AZ build a better compound. The teams are spaced too far apart in FL, and too much history/support for the team in Arizona. Besides, if they move Spring Training to Florida, my dad wouldn’t be able to go to see them as easily, so there’s that.
Censorship of anything, at any time, in any place, on whatever pretense, has always been and will always be the last resort of the boob and the bigot.
—Eugene O’Neill
I hope it happens
Of course, I only say that because I live in Tallahassee now, and I’d much rather go see the Cubs than, say, Mets-Orioles (the game I saw this year).
The Legislature here is actually working on a few measures to try to make staying in or moving to Florida a better deal. I’d still say it’s unlikely, but there might be more at play than simply bargaining.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
I vote FL
But thats cause the family still lives there and I can justify the trip to the wifey
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
I justify the trip to the misses all the time
Its called; “its Spring Training…we are going to Mesa. Whats that dear?…no family lives there? PERFECT.”
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
LOL
I wish that would work for me, sometimes it seems vacations always have to revolve around some family event. Unfortunatly that leaves me no time to go fishing.
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
I have a solution
Your wife has got to have an old widower uncle or something that you can haul to ST and fishing trips. If he is annoying well, at least your getting 50% of enjoyment — better than sitting in an outdated living room listening to him. Angles…angles.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
or throw
family in a lake, and fish them out
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
Sigh
No surprise that my vote for the Sunshine State is in the minority. They’ll stay in AZ I’m sure but would love them here in FL.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 31, 2009 4:04 PM CDT reply actions
Florida is just better....
…in every conceivable way than Arizona.
- Beaches? Florida – yes. Arizona – no.
- Golf? Yes for both.
- Larger Midwest contingent? Florida, hands down.
- Family attractions? Florida wins again – Disney/Universal Studios/Sea World/Busch Gardens
I’m sure this is just a bargaining chip, with teams YET AGAIN using Sarasota as a means to negotiate a better deal where they really want to be (see: White Sox and Cincinnati Reds and Red Sox, all of whom played Sarasota for fools). And frankly, I’m not crazy about shilling out money for baseball parks (particularly spring training ones) so that billionaires can get richer while Florida schools, roads, environment, etc. could use the money.
But as someone who grew up in Sarasota, has family there still, and owns a house there? I say the Cubs would be foolish not to RUN to Sarasota.
agreed 100%
Sarasota has one of the top beaches in the world, has a ton of culture, amazing golf courses, good nightlife, and enough hotels and condos to deal with any influx. I’ve lived all over the state of FL and Sarasota is by far the nicest city in the state, the only problem would be expanding/refurbishing the Ed Smith Stadium complex (it is in a bad location too), like you said though, the problem is dolling out almost $100 million in a state that tries to cut its budget on a yearly basis and in an area with equally ‘conservative’ fiscal values when there are obvious needs (i.e. my fiance is a teacher in a county in FL that has to cut ~$75 mil from the education budget) .
Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation
by CubFanRaysaddict on Mar 31, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Any reasonable plan...
…would eliminate Ed Smith as the stadium complex. Most plans called for the stadium to be built at the current Sarasota Fairgrounds on Fruitville Road — easily accessible to the interstate, and close to downtown.
And I’m sorry, but Ed Smith is hardly a dump — it’s just pretty old. Sure it pails in comparison to the more modern facilities, but you sit amazingly close to the field and there isn’t a bad seat anywhere in the stadium.
But you’re right — Siesta Key beach is the best beach in the world (and certainly has the softest sand in the world — honestly, they did a survey and proved it), Sarasota has great arts/restaurants/nightlife, and it’d be a phenomenal place for spring training with built-in connections to Chicago. Plus, I’m pretty sure you can still get direct flights to Sarasota from Midway on Air-Tran…..or to Tampa on Southwest (which is only 1 hour from Sarasota)
Reds
The Reds tried to bring a decent chuck of their own cash to the table but Sarasota wouldnt budge. They got a much better deal, for the ballclub, in AZ.
Ed Smith stadium is a dump, however. It needs major renovations. (restrooms, clubhouses, etc)
"I've actually never had a drink before, tonight I might try it out. We'll see."
—Dodgers pitcher Clayton Kershaw, on turning 21
agreed
ed smith is kind of a dump, bad location etc.. I lived in Sarasota for ~6 years and went to one game there my first year and never went back.
Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation
by CubFanRaysaddict on Mar 31, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
You're wrong about more Midwest people in Florida.
Most Florida relocatees are from the East Coast, not Chicago.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
an unfortunate truth
But no one said more people are from the Midwest than the Northeast…. Living in Florida all my life I can tell you that there is a huge contingent of people from the midwest (mainly Chicago), but you’re right most are unfortunately from the N.E. (only say that because people from the MW normally have a much nicer disposition), it doesn’t really take away from the point he made though.
Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation
by CubFanRaysaddict on Mar 31, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
when i lived in FL
the most prominent out of state License Plates were from NY, OH, MI, IL and Ontario.
"I've actually never had a drink before, tonight I might try it out. We'll see."
—Dodgers pitcher Clayton Kershaw, on turning 21
And...
…those were just the tourists who hadn’t relocated permanently. My Sarasota friends’ families, and the vast majority of people from my church self-identified as Midwesterners, with hometowns in Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and western Pennsylvania, predominantly….
Surely not a comprehensive survey, but trust me that there is a SHOCKING number of Midwest transplants in SW Florida. Hell, I remember growing up going to Tampa Bay Buc-Chicago Bears games in the late 1980s/early 1990s at the Old Sombrero, when the crowd was quite literally 4/5 Bears fans….sure, the Bucs were bad then, but even to this day Packers and Bears fans routinely negate any homefield advantage the Bucs have when they play in Tampa….and you think there wouldn’t be significant overlap between Bears fans and Cubs fans?
same in Central Texas
doesn’t mean that the Cubs should move their ST to Austin, TX
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
That's not what he said.
He said that there are more midwesterners in Florida than in Arizona. He didn’t say that most snowbirds in Florida are midwesterners.
X
Well...
…technically, having lived in Sarasota for about 20+ years, I can assure you that most people in Sarasota are transplanted Midwesterners (Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin). The state divides itself based on I-75 (the west coast of Florida, which goes right up into the Midwest) and I-95 (which goes right up the east coast of Florida, and up to the Atlantic-shore/Northeast).
So the east coast of Florida has more retirees from the Northeast….but the west coast of Florida is almost COMPLETELY Midwesterners.
Regardless, Florida has generally more Midwesterners than Arizona does (and Tampa/St. Pete/Orlando/Sarasota/Bradenton/Ft. Myers, specifically has more Midwestern transplants that Phoenix/Tempe/Mesa does).
Wow
You really get around…I mean I hope for gods sakes you work for the census or something, sheesh with your abilities to determine the home locations for a mass population you could lead the bureau.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
I don't know where you get the info ...
… about Florida having more midwesterners than Arizona. Got any Census data or other info to back up your claim?
You don’t really make a compelling case for Sarasota except for the fact that you live there.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Maybe MidWesterners in general
but “you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting…” a Chicago transplant in PHX.
Quote courtesy of Carla Tortelli of Cheers.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
One could say the same about your info
Do you have any Census data or other info to back up your claim? Or are you just going by your own experience? I mean, it’s fine to question someone’s claims, but don’t call them out for lacking evidence if you don’t have evidence that proves otherwise.
Working at the Capitol, I run into people from across Florida. I assure you, there are a lot of Midwestern accents running around.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
Hehe
Not picking or anything (well maybe but in fun), but in challenging the argument your suggesting that by nature of “accents” you can determine all the Midwesterners you come into contact with? Ok fair enuff, but out of your sample size, how many are Cubs fans willing to go to FL for spring training? For all we know those midwesterners could all be Cardinal fans.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Accents, to me
Are just as good an indicator as “I’ve been there or lived there, and you’re wrong!”
Until somebody has some empirical data, it’ll do.
I don’t know how many Cubs fans are willing to go to FL for ST. I know this: As someone who grew up a WGN fan in the SE, I’ve been to FL even before I lived here many times. I’ve never been to AZ. And I have an abiding faith in the wide spread of Cubs fans.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
there are a lot of midwest accents
all over America tho.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
Same thing I'd say to the guy suggesting that Texas has a lot of MWers
Spring Training is played in two states. We’re debating those two states, not all 50. I was simply backing up the argument that there is a prevalent MW contingent in Florida.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
Well...
…I don’t have census data, per se, but in terms of total population per US Census Bureau estimates:
Florida estimated 2008 population: 18,328,340
Arizona estimated 2008 population: 6,500,180
So, unless Midwesterners are COMPLETELY shunning Florida in droves for Arizona, I find it a little hard to believe that Arizona has more Midwesterners than Florida, given that Florida is 3 times as large.
And sorry, Al, but where do you get off by stating that I don’t make a compelling case for Florida? I noted the larger population, the greater abundance of attractions for families, the longtime connection to hosting spring training for Chicago baseball teams (going back with the White Sox), the “within 2 hours” proximity of almost every opponent….
Throw in the fact that they’d be joining the Cardinals, Yankees, and Red Sox in training here, and you’d have arguably the 4 largest fan bases in baseball all in one state, too….
Oh yeah — Florida doesn’t have state income tax, either, while Arizona does. Don’t think for a minute that being able to base your spring training in Florida wouldn’t help a bit in attracting players (who could avoid, perhaps, some state income taxes by residing there)
maybe this will help a little
http://www.city-data.com/highgrowth.html
2 Gilbert AZ
3 Chandler AZ
7 Port St FL
10 Surprise AZ
18 Cape Coral FL
20 North Port FL
21 Goodyear AZ
29 Miami FL
37 Peoria AZ
38 Phoenix AZ
40 Fort Lauderdale FL
46 Orlando FL
47 Scottsdale AZ
48 West Palm Beach FL
49 Palm Beach Gardens FL
62 Wellington FL
63 Palm Bay FL
66 Miramar FL
67 Lake Havasu City AZ
68 Queen Creek AZ
77 Mesa AZ
80 Tampa FL
84 Avondale AZ
89 Marana AZ
100 Tallahassee FL
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
Growth is nice...
….but I’d prefer to go where people already are located. The Ft. Myers/Sarasota/Bradenton/St. Pete/Tampa/Kissimee/Orlando corridor of SW Florida has, quite simply a HUGE population, and would more than adequately support the Cubs.
Plus:
Flights from Chicago to Phoenix — about 4 hours, direct on Southwest.
Flights from Chicago to Tampa — 2.5 hours direct on Southwest.
The latter are, also, generally cheaper.
Mesa and surruonding areas
support them well as it is, so IMO if it aint broke don’t fix it.
they are breaking records annually for both home attendance as well as single game attendance during ST, so I really do not see why they need to move to be supported by fans.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
I certainly...
..do not mean to impugn the fans in AZ, who do support the Cubs very well. Nor do I think it’s likely that the Cubs move to Sarasota (this reeks of a negotiating ploy).
It just seemed to me that a lot of people were praising Arizona, and slamming Florida and/or Sarasota, without giving fair thought to both sides of the argument. My point was that Florida (and Sarasota specifically) offers a LOT in its favor as a spring training locale that AZ cannot/does not offer, and that the Cubs (and Cubs fans who like to go to Spring Training) would be smart to give a place as phenomenal as Sarasota a strong look if they were thinking of relocating.
As it is, while I’m a Cubs fan living in Chicago, I’ll probably never end up catching the Cubs in spring training if they stay in Arizona, just because I’d rather spend any spring vacation/training time I have in Florida due to extra-Cubs factors (beaches, family, friends, having a place to stay, cheaper travel, etc.)
I was not slamming Fla
and if you felt I did, I am sorry.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
The Phoenix area has over 3 million people.
I’m going to make a long post about this sometime this weekend. You’ll hear all my arguments in detail about why the Cubs should stay in Arizona.
I’m not slamming Florida. I just think the Cubs are better off staying where they are.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
that's the thing
anywhere the Cubs set up camp, they would draw, as Cub fans travel well as we all know.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
And...
…the Tampa Bay area has 4 million, estimated, by the U.S. Census in 2008. I guarantee there are more people within a 1-2 hour drive of Sarasota (the local fanbase that would attend Cubs games) than there are within 1-2 hours of Phoenix.
I look forward to hearing why Arizona is better for the Cubs…like I said, I have no delusions that they’ll move to Florida, but I don’t think it’d be a mistake in any sense to go to Sarasota, and there would be a number of benefits.
Florida vs Arizona
which has more transplants? well, if we go by the entire state that would not negate long drives from one site to another, since it would be going across the state for a game. the proper would be to investigate the surrounding areas of the site (like Chicagoland area is not all of illinois),
That being said, from a marketing perspective, I would want the location with less transplants, to try to continue to grow the fan base allowing new fans to buy new merchandise, etc.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
couple links
spread sheet done by the state if Iowa using Census bureau stats, showing population migration between states from 1995-2000 has AZ getting around ~15000 IL transplants and Florida receiving ~38,000 IL transplants
link 1 -(go to #14)one years example of consistent data from the census that shows the number of people moving from region to region and how the south consistently has 2x the number of migrants from the midwest than the west region does (check more than one years data it’s about the same proportionally)
Someone with JSTOR access could do a more complete job on this or just tell us other conclusions drawn but this is the data I could find and it has been consistent year to year from ‘00 on. Also i’m not saying this is the end all of interstate migration studies, once again just the links I could find.
Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation
by CubFanRaysaddict on Apr 2, 2009 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Does it have to be that way?
Does it automatically have to be that we are building a new park for billionaire ballplayers to get richer? I believe that with the INCREDIBLE draw of a storied and widely followed baseball club, the local area would be improved. There would be funding through many civic projects to repave roads, improve area schools, and it would also help to drive a shaky tourist economy in south FL. I know that I am the author of this post, but I believe that the benefits to the local economy and the league in general far outweigh the negative impacts.
Sarasota
Most of the longer bus trips in FL are split squads and the youngsters generally make the trip.
Sarasota is a nice town and, speaking as a midwesterner, ya just cant beat a beach in March.
"I've actually never had a drink before, tonight I might try it out. We'll see."
—Dodgers pitcher Clayton Kershaw, on turning 21
The only problem with Mesa
is that the minor league facility is located four blocks from Ho Ho Kam, and there’s lots of houses and a canal in between. Mesa is pretty well built up, so there’s no place big enough to build a combined facility. Compared to the newer ballparks, Ho Ho Kam is showing its age.
I agree the Florida talk is just a ruse to pressure Mesa to give the Cubs an upgraded facility. They are the biggest draw in the Cactus League by far, and no will will they let them leave.
HoHoKam is only 12 years old.
But yes, compared to some of the newer places, like Surprise, it “feels” old.
I suspect the Cubs will wind up with a completely new complex somewhere in metro Phoenix, not necessarily in Mesa.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Wrigley is old
should we tear it down also?
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
Tim?
Seriously, I agree with the whole Cubs to stay in AZ argument, but HoHoKam and Wrigley are apples and oranges. Please tell me you see that?
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
it was pure smart ass on my part
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
Nicely done
Always can use some of that on a wednesday. See you in Florida!
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Chances of the Cubs ever leaving Arizona?
0.0 percent. The Phoenix area is home to countless thousands of transplanted Chicagoans and a big part of the identity of the Cubs is it’s spring home in Arizona. Cubs are going nowhere, and for Crane Kenney to even throw out the hint of Sarosota as an option reinforces the notion that Tom Ricketts needs to fire him on day one of his new administration. Kenney hasn’t done shit in his role as the guy supposedly in charge of the Cubs, other than stir up needless trouble. Let Kenney go back to the executive boardroom of some company where he belongs.
Stiring up needless trouble?
This is an example of that? I consider that weighing options, if he wasn’t considering all options I would say he wasn’t doing his job. In this case you are stating the Cubs aren’t the Cubs unless they are in Arizona in March. I could honestly care less where they do their practice drills as long as they are at Wrigley in April. Tradition isn’t top priority, the Dodgers did leave Dodgertown after all.
by bheidge on Mar 31, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well...
…it was a few posts since Blou Mike talked tough like “Kenney hasn’t done shit”, so he felt he needed to reinfirce he’s the baddest guy on this here board.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
This has been discussed before
And not just by Blue Mike, and it has been seriously hinted at that Kenney is trying to position himself as the best candidate for the presidents job under Rickett’s new ownership. This is Kenney’s way of showing that he is “considering all options” and obviously its a somewhat smart move since you and (33% of the vote) seem to think this cockamaime Florida idea is a good one. Would you or I do any different if our job was on the line, probably not. The truth of the matter is that a nice shiny ballpark and training facilities doesn’t mean a hill of beans if everyone is on their way out. There is a reason teams are leaving Florida, part of it is indeed the draw to new facilities, but there are other factors at work, including but not limited to; conveinance of locations of other parks, warm DRY climate, modern facilties throughout the cactus league (and getting better). etc. Lets remember, the Cubs are great for the cactus league as a whole, which is yet another reason they would like to keep them in AZ. I feel sorry that some of my fellow Cubs fans (living in Florida) don’t have ST in their backyard, but I think you have to face the reality that even with the best offers from FL, Mesa or another municipality is NOT going to let a goldmine like the Cubs get away.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Right about Kenney, and...
… I think the one of the reasons he’s pushing this right now is, that if he can get the Cubs a great spring deal in Arizona, Ricketts might look more favorably about keeping him.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Where did I say it would be a good idea
for the cubs to move? I will directly quote myself here, "I could honestly care less where they do their practice drills as long as they are at Wrigley in April. "
Just out of curiosity Steven, where are you from? Arizona?
My bad
Ok sorry for lumping you in on the “pro-FL” vote. I’m from ABQ = Albuquerque (New Mexico). So yeah I do have a selfish reason to see the Cubs remain in AZ (because I’m so damn close and can get out there every year). But that doesn’t change the facts, moving to FL would be a pretty extreme move, and as I have already mentioned this really is about a little arm twisting to get Mesa or another community to pony up — with hopes by a certain individual to further his career. Further, I was kind of hoping you would take on the crux of my argument, rather than nit picking my foolish assumptions or lack of reading skills. Even the guys over at the Snakepit agree that the Cubs will never leave AZ, and those guys would prefer that their state or municipalities wouldn’t dump money into any other team than the D-Backs new facility.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
I would have to oppose
your argument before I would consider arguing with you. Although I really dont see too many more teams leaving Florida. Possibly St. Louis, Houston and Detroit. I cant see any East coast teams heading to AZ for Spring training
Fair enuff
And your probably correct that not many other teams will out the door soon. But with that said. I would think that the FL communities wishing to attract new teams would do well to make certain that the facilities for those teams still there are as state of the art and modern as they can make them. This would likely sway existing grapefruit league teams from leaving. The thing is, the Cubs would not have difficulty getting fan support in most locations. Cubs fans would flock to Florida just as they would to Arizona. Although, some fans that would not travel to FL, would likely be replaced by fans who could not make the AZ trip. I guess time will tell — I will leave it in the hands of the gods.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
We shall see...
Just to be accurate, the Cubs can’t leave Hohokam until the end of spring training 2012 at the earliest. In order to leave after the spring of 2012 the Cubs would be required to notify Mesa before spring training 2010 that they are "opting out" of the 20 year lease and would also be required to pay Mesa $4.2 million.
That gives Sarasota or whoever 11 months to come up with a concrete plan on a new complex that would run into the hundreds of millions of dollars to build. The Cubs say they want to be the only tenant so that further restricts the financial gains that any city can realize with such a complex. With the current economy I would be very surprised if a new deal is realized in the next 11 months with any entity other than Mesa.
by cubsAZ.com on Apr 1, 2009 10:09 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Thank you
For providing sound logic to this argument. We can all wish upon a star either way on this, but the time table you present sums up perfectly the situation — and where the Cubs will remain. I particularly like your point about the Cubs wishing to remain as a single tenant, a great point, and also why other municipalities (Chandler, Gilbert, Queen Creek…) would not be quick on the draw to dump cash into a new facility. Especially since with the mass exodus from FLORIDA, there will likely be a couple other teams heading their way soon enough.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
rec'd
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
Hoping for Florida...
Living in Tallahassee, but why the talk about Sarasota? A gorgeous, classic facility is sitting vacant in Vero Beach. Who wouldn’t love Cubville becoming the new Dodgertown? Plus my girlfriend is from Vero Beach and the Cubs in town would make that town bearable.
Make it happen baby: Cubs, Jaguars, FSU, Jazz, Thrashers.
Dodgertown is old and not suitable for "modern" spring training.
I doubt the Cubs would be interested.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
The Mesa Mayor sounds a little worried...
Any financial investment, private or public, to build spring training facilities right now is “a difficult proposition,” Mesa Mayor Scott Smith told reporters Tuesday.
link to article in East Valley Tribune
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I would imagine...
… that public money for these sorts of facilities would be a “difficult proposition” just about anywhere.
The point is raised in the article, though, that the Cubs and their fans bring a ton of money into Mesa — can Mesa afford to lose that? That’s the real question.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
The money is there.....
Sarasota has been setting money aside for quite some time to land a team. Not only their own money but also money from the State of Florida.
Support Day Baseball
Pretty generic article.
All it says is that it gives Sarasota “more time”. They’ve received about $1 million so far, which is… well, it’s not nearly enough.
I suspect they’ll wind up with the Orioles, if they get a new team.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
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