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Bullpen Math: Easy, Fun!

Buried in Gordon Wittenmyer's article in this morning's Sun-Times, ostensibly about how the Cubs do or don't miss Kerry Wood, are these very good clues about exactly who will and won't be in the 2009 bullpen, after expected closer Carlos Marmol:

Kevin Gregg, who has impressed with his fastball and command as he gains strength after a knee injury last year, is the other certain late-inning reliever. Fifth-starter combatants Jeff Samardzija and Aaron Heilman are in the mix for the two other setup jobs Piniella wants to fill, along with hard-throwing Angel Guzman and young Kevin Hart.

Neal Cotts, who pitched out of a seventh-inning jam Tuesday against Oakland, might wind up the only left-hander in the pen. Chad Gaudin probably will be there, too, as a middle reliever and/or spot starter. Piniella said Luis Vizcaino, who threw a 1-2-3 sixth Tuesday, fits in middle relief, and he said he has been impressed by prospect Marcos Mateo, while calling lefty prospect Jason Waddell "interesting."

Not only does that represent massive turnover of a 97-win team's bullpen, but do the math: That's 11 names for seven spots.

OK, let's do the math, presuming there are seven spots: Gregg, Marmol, Heilman, Cotts and Gaudin are locks, either because they're good at what they do, lefthanded, or having been acquired in high-profile trades. Essentially, that leaves six pitchers for the other two spots.

Mateo -- brother of former Cub Juan Mateo, and who was acquired from the Reds as the PTBNL -- hasn't pitched above A ball yet. He may have talent, but Double-A is his likely destination. Waddell spent eight years in the Giants organization without ever moving above Double-A, so "interesting" to Lou or not, his best-case scenario probably has him at Iowa. Samardzija is probably being stretched out to start (he'll start the game against the White Sox at Las Vegas tonight), so he's probably also headed to Iowa, given how well Sean Marshall has thrown and how he's changed his approach to increase his chances of being a full-time starter this spring.

So that, essentially, leaves three pitchers for two spots -- Vizcaino, Guzman and Hart. Vizcaino has a contract that the Cubs had to take in exchange for Jason Marquis, so he might have a leg up on one of the slots -- unless the Cubs can flip that deal somewhere before the end of spring training. That leaves Guzman and Hart for the final spot. (Hey, Gordo: Hart isn't "young" -- he's 26.)

Despite Guzman's bad outing over the weekend, I'd like to see him get it. He could, assuming Marmol eventually winds up with the closer spot, become what Marmol was to Kerry Wood last year. I like Guzman's arm and now that he's no longer a starter, similar to Wood, that ought to take stress off his arm and he can stay healthy. Touted as "the next Zambrano" after an outstanding 2002 season, Guzman spent much of the next five years on the DL. He's 27, and I think now is his time.

So that, really, nails down all 12 spots on the pitching staff. The only real decision is whether that 12th spot is even needed for the first few weeks; the problem is, if Guzman is the 12th guy, he is out of options (Hart isn't), and might wind up having to be kept for that reason alone. The only question mark left for the 25-man roster is likely the last bench spot; current competitors are Micah Hoffpauir, Jake Fox and non-rostered Corey Koskie, who won't be in a Cub uniform until Canada finishes its participation in the WBC.

It's nice to have this kind of depth, isn't it? I haven't even mentioned guys like Jose Ascanio, Randy Wells and Rule 5 guy David Patton, who will likely wind up being returned to the Rockies. That will make the Iowa staff a good one and provide plenty of reinforcements in case of injury.

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This Woody love affair is beyond belief

[ # of DL stints ] > [ avg combined W + Sv per season ] = Kerry Wood’s Cubs Career

Damned media just can’t leave things alone. They always have to stir it up.

Now if he wrote just about the ’pen I would have read it. I simply skipped onwards to the Daily Herald.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Mar 4, 2009 8:31 AM CST reply actions  

I like Wood, but...

… that’s the reason I focused on this year’s bullpen comments in that article.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 4, 2009 8:39 AM CST up reply actions  

the one assumption is 11 or 12 pitchers

I could see 6 bullpen arms running to almost the end of May even with a 5th starter. Marmol and possibly occasionally Gregg could close or be late game “finisher’s”.

Heilman is good set up talent and as you projected Guzman has the stuff to be the fireman or 7th-8th domineering situational pitcher. Cotts by default is the lefty but let us just say there is a spot on the roster…then comes Gaudin who can be the swing or middle reliever depending on the schedule. The thing is if Marshall is the 5th the Cubs could use him in the bullpen in the first 3 weeks of the season then have him start to May 20th or so and then skip him occasionally to late June when a regular 5 man rotation goes to the All Star break.

To me that leaves the curious “middle reliever” role description for Vizcaino a possible bubble spot as through June that role could be maintained by Gaudin and part of the time Marshall. This then allows the Cubs to play AAA rotisserie with the 25th roster spot, having a AAA pitcher be it Hart or Samardzija or Mateo brought up for short periods either to bolster the bullpen or make a spot start for a spell.

That then is intertwined with the “potential” 14 position player. My projection is that Koskie is the 13th position player if he shows he is healthy—-but the potential 14th position player could be Hoffpauir or Fox or a rotation of both as they have option years remaining.

On paper I think at this part of the roster that is what Piniella and Hendry are thinking through. I have looked at the schedule and it appears to have 4 parts, consecutive weeks with off days, consecutive weeks with no off days, followed by consecutive weeks with off days and then a period running almost to the All Star break with no off days.

So to me Vizcaino has a bulls eye on his back…..most interesting is the Cubs scouting Crosby of the A’s, look for some mutual salary dump to complete the Marquis trade.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Mar 4, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Hart is horrible.....

I’d hate to see him make the staff over Guzman.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Mar 4, 2009 8:40 AM CST reply actions  

I wouldn't say horrible but I see nothing in Hart

that makes me think he is anything but a possible middle inning bullpen guy. His minor league numbers have been average at best. Twenty seven y.o. guys like him are not difficult to find. If the Cubs have to let him go via waivers at some point, I don’t think there is any loss.

by rlpete on Mar 4, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions  

I would say he is

easily replaceable, not horrible. he has looked decent before, and might be a prime example of a 4A player

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 4, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

He looked decent in 07

Horrible last year. Horrible.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Mar 4, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions  

As always, Al...

Great analysis. I’m very optimistic about the supports that Iowa will have. Of course, no one wants to even think about needing to dip into those reserves, but it’s nice to know they’re there.
Any thoughts about whether Hill will beat out Bako for the back up role? Correct me if I’m wrong, but Snyder goes AAA as does Fuld and Robnett? Is Hoff-power out of options? That seems like a pretty nice set of outfield options should a need arise. Anyone know what happens with Rivas and ABlanco?

by socalicubsfan on Mar 4, 2009 8:43 AM CST reply actions  

Hoffpauir isn't an outfielder.

He’s a 1B being pushed to play outfield.

Andres Blanco is intriguing, but probably not good enough to make the team. If Rivas doesn’t make the team, he’ll probably be released.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 4, 2009 9:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Brant Brown anyone?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 4, 2009 9:31 AM CST up reply actions  

OH, NOOOO!

and that’s what most of us think about Hoff in the OF

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 4, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Brown was actually adequate out there, I think

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 4, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

While Hoff isn't an OF...

don’t you think they’ll run him out to the OF at AAA if he doesn’t make the team (if he isn’t out of options).

by socalicubsfan on Mar 4, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Hoffpauir has 2 option years left

29 years old (turned on March 1) with less than 172 days (1 full season) of MLB service time.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Mar 4, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd rather see Koyie make the team over Bako

but I doubt that’ll happen.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Mar 4, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions  

not if Bako goes 1-17

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Mar 4, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

The concern I have with Hill was at the end of the season he seemed to be tipping pitches – I remember commentators noting his set-up allowing astute batters to anticipate pitches… I’m assuming that if the ESPN guys saw it, it’s been addressed. While I think it’d be great for Geo to get another year of a mentoring catcher, I’m just not sure Bako is the guy.

by socalicubsfan on Mar 4, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions  

I wonder about his tipping pitches...

…and if it has indeed been addressed. Maybe he’ll catch tonight and we can tell (or someone reporting from AZ?).

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Mar 4, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Cotts

I think its a mistake to call him a lock. If someone like Waddell has a good spring I think it gives Lou an alternative. More likely Cotts would head north with the club but I think he’d be on a very short leash, with Waddell waiting at AAA.

by dmlichte on Mar 4, 2009 9:04 AM CST reply actions  

Waddell at AAA, sure.

But there has to be a reason why he spent eight years with the Giants without ever getting above AA, and not being very good there when he did get there.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 4, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't disagree

And perhaps it might not be Waddell… it might be one of the other random lefties (though not likely Mike Stanton). I just think that Cotts is likely on a short leash due to his complete lack of consistency and if Lou finds someone else who can take his spot, Cotts may face the same repercussions that Scott Eyre did. As someone who doesn’t particularly like Cotts, this would be fine by me.

by dmlichte on Mar 4, 2009 9:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Analysis

I hope the comment concering who is good and who is a high profile acquisition was meant to include Gregg in the former category rather than latter. Quite honestly, Gregg is the best RH reliever the Cubs have not named Marmol, and he’s shown it so far this spring. LIke Dempster, you guys are going to wish you hadn’t bashed Gregg mercilessly since his acquisition. This guy isn’t a stiff by any means.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Mar 4, 2009 9:14 AM CST reply actions  

I don't think Gregg has been bashed

so much as there has been wailing and grinding of teeth that he “replaced Wood”.

I think Gregg will be ok.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 4, 2009 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm still kind of thinking..

… I would rather see Marmol setting up Gregg, than the other way around. Gregg seems to do best when he comes into bases-empty situations, which he would in the 9th inning.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 4, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

You may be right

And I don’t think that constitutes a knock on Gregg

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 4, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

It's not intended to...

… just utilize each pitcher in the role to which he is best suited.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 4, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

kind of like when Dempster pitched as a closer

what matters is WINS

those who contribute can take solace in participating in what they do best

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Mar 4, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, I realize that

I’m referring to krummy’s comment above — I don’t think that there has been a lot of Gregg bashing.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 4, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I been saying that since we traded for Gregg

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 4, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed...

Unfortunately, I’m guessing Marmol will be the closer and Gregg will be the setup guy, meaning we may be using Gregg in those pressure, 7th/8th inning jams.

by SouthernCub on Mar 4, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Didn't Marmol

often come in with one or two outs in the 7th or 8th inning with runners on

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 4, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

yep. And that's what he was good at so it all worked out.

But if Marmol is annointed as closer, then my point is if what folks here are saying is true (Gregg does better coming into an inning with empty bases), then let Gregg start the 8th inning, instead of waiting for a jam situation. The rest of the bullpen can handle the 6th/7th inning.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Lou is going for Nasty Boys Redux. He’s already got Marmol and Gregg – all he needs is a third, and all of a sudden it’s a 6 inning game. If they didn’t view Shark as a solid starter, I think he’d be ideal for that third Nasty Boy spot. Otherwise, I’m hoping Guzman comes through.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 4, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Right.

That’s the situation I’m saying Marmol is better suited for than Gregg.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 4, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 4, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Liked Koskie Move

I like the fact Koskie has a lot of major league experience and can play third base. We don’t know who will backup third base yet. Fontenot, Miles? Oh, yeah, Koskie will turn 36 years old this year and hasn’t played in the big leagues since 2006, but I’m hoping he can be for the Cubs what an aging Richie Hebner was in 1984. With 12 pitchers being on the staff, I don’t know if Hoffpauir will make the team because of Hoff’s lack of defensive versatility. Koskie might be a better choice.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 4, 2009 9:17 AM CST reply actions  

Koskie was a day light robbery

He fits so well on the Cubs bench:

Power hitting pinch hitter
adequate 3rd base back up
Left hand bat
experienced veteran who is willing to subordinate his ego and be thankful for some pine and paycheck.

Bet he breaks in a First base mit as well.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Mar 4, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

I thought Hoff was almost a lock to make the team before the Koskie signing because I am not a fan of Jake Fox. Koskie seems to provide more of what the Cubs need than Hoffpauir does

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 4, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Hoff seems an ideal candidate for an AL team that needs some punch. It's obvious he can

hit and he seems tailor made for a 1B/DH. The Cubs seem to be intent on making him into a player he just is not suited to be. I would like to see them move him for a backup 3B.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Mar 4, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Or a real shortstop

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 4, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

A backup 3B is easier to find than a real SS.

And it appears we may have the backup 3B in Koskie.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 4, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I think Hoffpauir's MLB experience lies with a 14th position player

or until they can trade him for a middle infielder.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Mar 4, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

With the extended spring training, I think Micah gets a ton of playing time

but not so much to see how he fits in with the Cubs. At this point, I think Jim & Lou clearly know what they have with Micah – yes, he can contribute in 09, but a healthy Koskie would probably contribute more.

Seeing as Hendry is viewed as a players GM, my guess is Micah is being showcased for a trade. I’m a Micah fan, but he really would be better off in the AL and I think Jimbo is trying to make that happen – both for the Cubs and for Micah.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 4, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Hendry will often try to help out a player who doesn’t fit with the Cubs. Hoffpauir is a perfect example of that. He’s sort of a poor man’s Jack Cust — if the A’s didn’t have Cust, he’d be a good fit there (and why they play Cust in the outfield is beyond me, he’s absolutely horrendous).

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 4, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't let this get around...

…but I totally agree. It seems like there should be some AL team in need of Micah’s bat – doesn’t Toronto need offense?

My sig line is out for jury duty.

by daver on Mar 4, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with everything except the left handed bat part...

Given that we’ve introduced so many left-handed (or switch hitting) bats to the lineup, I think we may find that we end needing a RIGHT-handed bat for the bench.

But it definitely puts Hoffpauir on notice. If Koskie is healthy enough to provide some offense, Hoffpauir becomes expendable. That would allow us to go with 13 position players (Miles/Fontenot, Koskie, Bako/Hill, Johnson, Gathright) and 12 pitchers.

by SouthernCub on Mar 4, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm curious

to know why someone like Mike Stanton, given the math, would have agreed to come to camp? Lighning-in-a-bottle be damned, I can’t imagine the Cubs releasing someone who is out of options to make room for him.

by leothelip on Mar 4, 2009 9:48 AM CST reply actions  

Because sometimes guys like that want one more chance.

He really has nothing to lose. If he doesn’t make it, he retires, having had a decent career.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 4, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Or, if he can't make the Cubs

someone else may see what they like and sign him.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Mar 4, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Koskie

Koskie can also play the corner outfield spots, correct?

by 23Ryno on Mar 4, 2009 9:50 AM CST reply actions  

Not really.

He last played OF in 1999.

But we already have five outfielders. Why do we need Koskie to play OF?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 4, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Thanks,

I was just curious as to what he could all play.

by 23Ryno on Mar 4, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

he might try to break in a First baseman mit but no OF

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Mar 4, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

I wish Jake Fox could play some defense. That kid can hit.

www.wrigleyexpansion.com

by drodd on Mar 4, 2009 10:29 AM CST reply actions  

he might be the 14th position player

that rotates between the 12th pitcher….nice to have an extra guy who can outfit the tools of ignorance plus at least know where 3B or 1B or a corner OF is during an extra inning game.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Mar 4, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

My current issue of baseball

digest lists Jake Fox as a potential NL Rookie Impact Player this year. They listed his 30 plus homeruns between double A and triple A as one of the reasons that he is a player to watch. Now, I would have expected to see this in an article talking about the Cubs minor league system and some potential players who could contribute. However, I was quite shocked to see it in this article since this article was primarily focusing on players of Wieters Hype. I did not figure that Jake Fox was much in our field of view let alone on the Rookie Impact Player Radar.

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Mar 4, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

He's not.

Baseball Digest is wrong.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 5, 2009 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

I have lost a little bit of respect for Baseball Digest because of this article.

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Mar 5, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Uh, I was told there would be NO math...

Why is it that people screw up perfectly good math problems by putting letters of the alphabet in them?

Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (Now #12,966 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list- UP from 13,031...WHOO HOO!)

by Zeke on Mar 4, 2009 10:56 AM CST reply actions  

Billy Petrick?

Is he able to pitch again? I really liked what he showed during a few stints in 2007.

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Mar 4, 2009 11:47 AM CST reply actions  

I posted a Fanshot about Petrick a week or three back.

He’s now pitching for the Frontier League’s Windy City Thunderbolts. I liked him a lot in ‘07, too. I heard he had some injury and, later, disciplinary issues, though. I’m not clear on the whole story.

LINKY.

My sig line is out for jury duty.

by daver on Mar 4, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

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