While I’m not a fan of Sori in the field, I have to disagree with this. An individual player can only do so much. If he goes 5-for-5 with 3 homers and two doubles, but the team loses, the offense he is creating isn’t leading to a victory. Seems to be two sides of the same coin.

In my small mind, saving a run in a loss is pretty worthless.

Why are defensive stats any different than offensive stats? How is a run saved any different than a run scored?

Are you advocating that offensive stats are worthless too if your team loses?

And you were being so good.

Wreckard’s point below — opportunities — is one reason.

Another is, in theory, he could just be that good — essentially, Daver’s point above, even though that was in jest.

If a batter hits a grounder to SS, the SS fields and throws it to 1B. He’s in on more plays than anyone else. SS, or C is probably the hardest fielding position. 1B has to catch throws from other defenders (of course he fields some too), while other defenders field batted balls, which are more difficult.

However, it takes the least amount of athletic skill to play successfully.

Frankly, though, these new statistics are making teams reconsider the traditional wisdom about defensive value. There’s a reason guys like Dunn and Abreu fell through the cracks this year – clubs are starting to realize just how many runs defense can influence.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you see an increased valuation of defensive first baseman in the years to come.

That said, you can’t look at a sample size of one and draw conclusions, like you’re doing here. There’s a certain element of Pujols being awesome going on here. Texeira, by contrast, is considered a good defensive first baseman and was only +21 last year.

based on what? Staring in the face of facts that just stated he saved more runs than any other LF in the game and continuing to insist he’s a minus is not really having a discussion.

has next to nothing to do with fielding.

Are you even aware of the methods that were used to come up with this analysis of Soriano’s defensive play? It takes into account range. Soriano’s speed actually allows him to get to balls that other players don’t reach. The system also takes into account misplays and errors. Just because you can remember bad plays he made doesn’t mean that he hasn’t made far more good plays. He also makes plays other left fielders can’t make due to his speed and arm. That is unbiased fact not opinion.
I’m not sure if you are aware of this but every major league team uses advanced metrics. It’s not some mysterious magical unproven method of analysis.

5… 6?

And a good outfielder butchers how many?

2-3?

That’s not a gigantic difference.

So again, how many runs does soriano save because of his arm?

A ton.

How many runs does soriano save because runners are too scared to even try to run?

A ton.

How many boneheaded mistakes does Soriano make on needless dives?

None.

How many people can’t grasp the fact that Soriano may have raw talent even if he does aggravate the fanbase sometimes.

Apparently only you.

these defensive statistics are misleading. I stand by my claim that he is a “D+” outfielder. I still think the main objective of the outfielder is to catch the ball. I think these statistics over value outfield assists and try to estimate how many times baserunners did not attempt to take the extra base because of Sori’s arm. I’d rather have a left fielder who can go get them and can’t throw than a left fielder who doesn’t go get them and can throw. In his prime, Barry Bonds could chase down balls but only had a mediocre, but accurate, arm. That’s my idea of a great left fielder.

Soriano’s arm doesn’t appear to be overly strong, he just has an incredible knack for tailing the ball right into the catcher’s reach.

If you understand the sample size issue then there is no argument here. What you fail to understand is that the few times he “looks really bad out there,” are far outweighed by the number of above average plays he makes. This is not a difficult concept to understand. People want to use isolated incidents to convince themselves that their perception is correct even if the evidence in totality says otherwise. Believe what you want to believe not what has been proven. Do you understand that the reams of numbers are the results of actual analysis of his play not just a couple of plays in spring training? These numbers are not created out of thin air. The numbers are what actually occurred, the good and the bad.

…but I’m actually looking forward to both Quentin and Alexei Ramirez this year.

… sorry that I didn’t make it clear that I was being sarcastic. Soto and Quentin, it may turn out in the long run that ‘08 were careers years for them, but I think they’re both going to have very good careers. Hopefully for the both it’s just the start of great career years one after the other.

I said stat-oriented people. People who get into vorp, babip, win shares, RZR, UZR, etc. Casual fans will always grade players on BA and errors.