Best Trade of the Decade for the Cubs

Aram

is one of the top 3B man in the league, and by far the most clutch hitter on the Cubs. Dont tell me you guys had fun watching the likes or Kevin Orie, Shane Andrews, and Jose Hernadez. Hands down ARAM. ps. Can you tell who my fav cubs is?

by Kchance on Mar 6, 2009 1:18 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

Um...

Kevin Orie?

LoL

Just joking Bro… :O)

by TheHawkRules on Mar 6, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Two words

RON COOMER!

Oh. Two more words. Tyler Houston. EYUCKKK.

"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"

by cubs0505 on Mar 6, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bill Mueller

by K-9 on Mar 9, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bill Mueller

was a good player if I recall correctly

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was.

You could argue his broken knee cap in 2001 (thanks, Busch Stadium tarp!) was one of the reasons the Cubs didn’t win the division that year.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Mar 11, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember watching that play

not only did it hurt just watching it happen, but he was never the same after, which was unfortunate.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 11, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not the same with the Cubs but ...

He went on to have a couple of pretty good seasons with the Red Sox. 2003 AL batting title if I recall correctly.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Mar 17, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have a Shane Andrews signed baseball card, what is wrong with him

"I'm an escaped car thief. I broke out of prison to see the Cubs in the World Series." - James Belushi in Taking Care of Business (1990)

by brownbuddha on Mar 12, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A Talent for the Trade

I think the ARam and Lofton deal are the best by far. Of course the DLee trade was a great trade, but ARam will end up doing more for the Cubs than Lee… if he hasn’t already.

by TheHawkRules on Mar 6, 2009 1:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

A-Ram Younger than D-Lee

Because the Cubs acquired A-Ram at age 25 and D-Lee at age 28, A-Ram will do a lot more for the Cubs than D-Lee. I’m a D-Lee fan, but A-Ram is a better hitter.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 6, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

KInd of obvious

The Ramirez trade is already almost as infamous among Pirates fans as Brock for Broglio is for us.

The Lee trade was good too, but there really isn’t much debate here.

by Josh77 on Mar 6, 2009 1:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

What?!

Hey, we gave them Bobby Hill, future Hall Of Famer!

by salparadise23 on Mar 6, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Aram over Lee

Ramirez edges out Lee.

I honestly think in 20 years we’re going to look at Ramirez’s arrival as a turning point in Cubs history.

Never underestimate the power of a redhead!

by cubstoseriesby100 on Mar 6, 2009 1:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The Ramirez trade could rank up there with the Sandberg deal...

… as one of the best in Cubs history.

Second place on my list is the Grudz/Karros deal — because without those guys, the Cubs probably don’t make the playoffs in 2003.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 6, 2009 1:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

+1

It’s also possible that the Cubs wouldn’t have been good enough in 2003 without Grudz and Karros to even consider trading for Ramirez. If they had been 10 under in late July, does anyone think they would have been looking to make that kind of trade?

Also, the worst trade, IMO, was the Juan Pierre deal.

by elgato on Mar 6, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why are people always putting Pierre down?

Look at his stats in 2006. Who led the league in hits? Who had the best AB/strikeout ratio? He was fast, could bunt and hit, albeit not with any power, but he was a decent player for the Cubs.

by Cubs and Hawks fan on Mar 6, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you forgot

who made the most outs in the NL? Pierre was awful. AB/Strikeout ratio as rationale that he was decent? Really?

by socalbob on Mar 6, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree....Pierre

was harder to walk than Dunston, and running the ball in from CF would have been more effective than his weak throwing arm.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 6, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He was a miserable failure.

And don’t take this the wrong way, but if you’d followed that horrible, horrible season closely, you’d agree.

He led the league in outs, and his entire season consisted of 700 AB worth of groundballs to 2B, most often 4-3 putouts, occasionally beaten out for infield singles, always getting a lead runner forced at second (or stranded at second), and incapable of driving in a runner from third, let alone from second.

Also, he kind of stunk at stealing bases – he got caught 20 times – his base stealing was a wash, if not somewhat worse than a wash. He walked 32 times — that’s 10 less than Soriano did batting leadoff in 08, with 250 more Pierre AB. His OBP was .330, and his OPS+ was 82. And his defense was mediocre, and his throwing arm was laughably bad.

When the Cubs installed Pierre as their leadoff hitter, the whole thing started to fall apart. He wasn’t that good at getting on base, and if he came up with men on, god forbid, there was generally nothing he could do to advance them.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Mar 6, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that sums him up as a hair below scrappy I would say

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 6, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He may have been the most frustrating Cub I've ever watched.

First off, he was the last straw in Jim’s weird “acquire every possible 2003 Marlin Except Miggy Cabrera” mission.

Every time I saw him run into or out of CF I was reminded of his streaking across the OF after the last out of the 2003 NLCS.

Every day, there were bleacher bums throwing back HR balls with better arms than the Cubs’ starting CF. And that’s not an exaggeration.

Then, we saw the team just auger in for one of the worst seasons in any of our memories, as Dusty and Pierre resolutely refused to do anything differently whatsoever. We were going down hard, but by God, we were doing it Dusty’s way.

And we also got to see Nolasco looking awesome for Florida at age 23, (occasionally against the horrid 2006 Cubs), knowing that there was more to come.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Mar 6, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely correct.

While Mitre and Pinto may be nothing special, losing Nolasco alone for Pierre is bad enough.

Pierre stands as the only player in ML history to have a 200-hit season and not hit .300. That’s pathetic.

We did get a draft pick for losing Pierre to free agency. That pick was Josh Donaldson, who was sent to the A’s in the Rich Harden deal, so at least we got SOME return for Pierre.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 6, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is in no means meant as a defense of Pierre

who really DID suck, but in 1973 Ralph Garr had 200 hits and batted .299.

by bluekoolaide on Mar 6, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I got it wrong, sort of....

… Pierre had the lowest average of anyone in history with a 200-hit season. Better?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 7, 2009 4:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Please explain

For those of us who are relative baseball dummies…

He had 200 hits in a season, right? Is that bad? many people bat below .300. I am not sure why the association between 200 hits and a BA less than .300 is so terrible.

I am sure I am missing some piece of logic somewhere… sorry for asking but I just don’t get it.

Thanks for any input you may have!!

by nickler on Mar 7, 2009 6:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And don't get me wrong.

I couldn’t stand Pierre either. I just don’t get the statistic of # hits and BA and why it proves he was terrible, although I am sure it does.

by nickler on Mar 7, 2009 6:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because if you have that many hits...

… in a full season, you should hit over .300 — the only reason Pierre had so many hits is that he hit leadoff and rarely walked. He set a Cubs team record with 699 at-bats, that ranks fourth in ML history.

Take a look at all the other players who had 200+ hits in a season and they all hit higher, in some cases far higher, than Pierre.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 7, 2009 7:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And his OBP of .330

is the essence of mediocrity. Plus he only scored 87 runs. Just looking at his stats from that year makes me suddenly appreciate Soriano a little bit more.

by bluekoolaide on Mar 7, 2009 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

to give you an idea of how bad that was for Pierre

Theriot last season had 178 hits (not all singles) in 580 AB’s

to have the same batting average in 580 ABs he only needed 166 hits. In 699 ABs to match Peirre using Riots averaage for 580 ABs he would have reach safely with 215 hits.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 7, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I always felt...

That Sergio Mitre sukked. Especially when the Cubs had him. He was like a gopherball waiting to happen every time he threw the ball. And he was supposed to be a groundball pitcher.

by northernsails on Mar 15, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

THANK YOU.

And I can only add that, in my memory at least, he spent the first half of the season trying to bunt for a hit at least once a game and failing miserably every freakin’ time.

My sig line is out for jury duty.

by dat cubfan daver on Mar 6, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ARam trade is the best this decade IMO, but

I was surprised not only did we get two key contributors for Hundley, we also received $2m.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 6, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Second place

Getting ANYTHING for Hundley also was amazing

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 6, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

Jack Taylor and Larry McLean to the Cardinals for Mordecai Brown.

Bob Buhl and Larry Jackson for Ferguson Jenkins was a steal, too.

Then there was that guy we got for George Bell. Can’t remember his name right now.

by Josh77 on Mar 6, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ken Patterson.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 6, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I may be wrong

but those were made before 1/1/2000

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 6, 2009 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes but

I was responding to Al’s comment about the Ramirez trade being among the greatest Cubs trades of all time.

by Josh77 on Mar 6, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I ranked it first.

That Grudz/Karros deal will always be my favorite Cubs trade. We got two good players, and the Dodgers took Todd Hundley. And all we really had to give up was Chad Hermansen.

Before each game, please remember to feed the bats.

by Cool Hand on Mar 6, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

+1

LOVED that deal. Karros was solid at first and a gem of a human being. And Grudz more than pulled his own weight.

by northernsails on Mar 15, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hee Sop

speaking of him where has he been the past couple of years

by Aramis Ramirez on Mar 6, 2009 1:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Out of baseball.

Not even playing, as far as I can tell — he’s not on the Korean WBC team.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 6, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kia Tigers

Choi currently plays for the Kia Tigers in the South Korean KBO League.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hee-Seop_Choi

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 6, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder why he wasn't chosen for the WBC team.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 6, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wow, surprised the karros/grudzielanek trade didn't get more votes

we absolutely fleeced them in that deal

Lets Go Hawks!

by CubsBall2202 on Mar 6, 2009 1:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sure but think about things in the long term.

To me, that’s why the Aram trade is the clear answer.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Mar 6, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As pointed out above...

… maybe if the Cubs don’t get Grudz and Karros, they’re not contending at midseason, and so don’t make the ARam deal at all.

Food for thought.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 6, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Mar 6, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That was a...

…fine trade. Very good. It’s just that the Ramirez trade was flat…out…awesome. I mean, we also got Kenny Lofton for 1/2 a season. – TL

by timlacy on Mar 6, 2009 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ramirez, hands down.

This question should ask what was the SECOND best trade of the decade, I think that would get more debate.

Aram himself would make it the best trade of the decade, but you throw in the help Lofton provided that year and it makes things pretty easy.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Mar 6, 2009 1:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

if that were the case

there could be two spin offs, one would be “second best trade”, but a more interesting one might be “worst trade of the decade”

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 6, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True and by no means was I trying to say this wasn't a good topic for a post.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Mar 6, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I didnt take it in a negative way at all

and I think a worst trade of the decade, or possible quarter century could be a real interesting (bad) trip down memory lane

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 6, 2009 6:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Other than Pierre

There really haven’t been many bad trades this decade.

by rlpete on Mar 6, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maddux for Izturis

might be the one that burns the most for recent trades (to date, depends on what the kids we got for DeRo become)

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 6, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Trust me it was not a trade

Hendry was letting Maddux “free” and he owed him that. Whether Izzie was worth taking at all is a fair question but forcing Maddux to suffer through 2 more months of the Cubs in 06 was not going to happen. His virtual resurrection with the Dodgers was a thing of beauty. Taking on Izturis at the time seemed reasonable Vs say a some minor league prospect but either way Maddux was gone. Hard liners can say that they should have forced Maddux to stay for the draft pick but Hendry was not going to do that to him.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Mar 6, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The only criticism I have of the Maddux deal....

… is that Hendry probably could have gotten more than Izturis. Yes, I understand the Cubs had to take on a contract, but the Dodgers really wanted him and I think Hendry had enough leverage to at least get a low level prospect.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 7, 2009 4:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ned Colletti wanted him

but I don’t think the Dodgers were willing to give up much anyway. I have no doubt that Boras with Maddux’s consent was pushing on this one. Again whether it was better to get Izzy or some very low prospect player is debatable but the Cubs were not in a position of power. Hendry pretty much owed it to Maddux and Colletti was more or less living out his fantasy of having Mad Dog. I don’t thing anyone could have imagined how much better Maddux would be as a Dodger and how much he helped the team in last two months of the season.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Mar 7, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Maddux rose to the occasion.

He had to be pretty disgusted with the way the 2006 Cubs were being run — and then suddenly being thrust into a pennant race, he got the most out of what abilities he had left.

Hendry owed him, yes. But Maddux owes Hendry a big thank you for making it happen, too.

In fact, Hendry got five players from that awful team to playoff teams — Maddux, Neifi Perez, Todd Walker, Scott Williamson and Phil Nevin. For Nevin it was his only postseason appearance.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 7, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say they are even

Hendry worked hard to convince Maddux to “come back”. Ironically I just picked up a tidbit that Maddux himself was inclined to take the offer from the Giants in 04 but that his wife , Kathy preferred Chicago.
Ironically if the current FA rules had been in effect in 04 I strongly suspect Maddux would have stayed in Atlanta.

I think Maddux and Hendry have a lot of respect for each other and I am sure Maddux appreciated being set free but alas I suspect his strong preference for working on the West Coast will mean he will continue to coach or manage there.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Mar 7, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean the arbitration/compensation rules?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 7, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

The Braves could not risk offering him arb after what happened the previous year but if in the end Boras had gone back to the Braves I think they would have matched the Cubs offer and he would have stayed there.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Mar 7, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know I know

but technically it was a trade. Everyone in baseball knows it was to allow Maddux to pitch into the post season

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 7, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well to get him on a contending team

at least. Dodgers were behind when he go there and they want on a tear right after,

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Mar 7, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+30

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 7, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pierre trade looked good when it was done

He was the centerfielder we needed that we thought would propel us to the post season. However, Dusty happened and Lee, Prior, and Wood were injured..

#34: You'll be missed!

by Chanman25 on Mar 6, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hands down the Ramirez deal

the Nomar deal had soo much potential with Nomar and Murton, but that failed.

Grudz trade was good, and the Lee trade was a steal. Hopefully last years trade is going to do well…

#34: You'll be missed!

by Chanman25 on Mar 6, 2009 1:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Without background

The A-Ram deal seems best but it is fair to note that Bobby Hill was considered a top minor league prospect and
Pittsburgh needed to dump salary .

In terms of a flat out smart trade # 1 gets my vote. You get rid of the most overpaid malcontent on the team and get back two guys who help you come that close to getting to World Series.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Mar 6, 2009 1:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

What you're bringing up here is important.

It’s easy to say in hindsight that the AJ. Pierzynski for Nathan-Bonser-Liriano trade was bad or the Colon for Sizemore-Philips-Lee was bad – you also have to look at those deals in their context, at the relative values of those players at the time. So, it is relevant that Pittsburgh wanted to dump salary and that Bobby Hill had a good reputation. It almost makes me consider changing my vote to the Grudz-Karros deal. Almost.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Mar 8, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

whateverybodyelsesaid

My sig line is out for jury duty.

by dat cubfan daver on Mar 6, 2009 1:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Choi-Lee Trade

At the time, I thought that was a bad trade for the Cubs. I was impressed with Choi with West Tenn and thought he would be a future All-Star that would stay with the Cubs for 10 years. He was younger than Lee. I was disgusted with D-Lee because of the 2003 NLCS. Well, we all know how things turned out with that trade. I’m glad the Cubs were smarter than I was.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 6, 2009 1:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Cards fan

And I still cannot believe that Littlefield handed Ramirez to a division rival for nothing. Bobby Hill was already considered a bust at that point and Jose Hernandez was never anything but a strikeout machine.

by indakind on Mar 6, 2009 2:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ah but Littlefield is now works for the Cubs

Coincidence ? I think not.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Mar 6, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You could say that he already was

working for the Cubs. He also handed over Randall Simon to the Cubs for nothing. It is still puzzling to me that he would essentially give away players to a division rival. Maybe he carries a grudge against the Cards and Astros (who were dominating the division at that time).

by indakind on Mar 9, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pirates are a very small market-type team

Ramirez was starting to blossom and reach the period when he’d become a major force (read: be worth LOTS and LOTS of moolah). Littlefield was thinking of the long-term, because Hill might have done something for them with a change of scenery (I know, not much chance of that, but he was still a minor leaguer) and Hernandez, if I remember correctly, was an expiring contract.

by northernsails on Mar 15, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rami

…but the Sandburg/Bowa for DeJesus trumps them all

by leothelip on Mar 6, 2009 2:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

As long as you're going back further than the last decade

I would argue that George Bell for Ken Patterson and Sammy Sosa trumps even that.

"I've got an idea...an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about." ~Peter Griffin

by Goodie1969 on Mar 7, 2009 7:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How about Little Babe Ruth for some washed up right fielder?

That should have made the list at least.

by jerry morales rules on Mar 6, 2009 2:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That was

a really good trade. Getting anything for Sosa at that point was big. That we got a productive major leaguer out of it was gravy.

by Josh77 on Mar 6, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good Point.....

I really like the second sacker that we got for the washed up guy.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Mar 6, 2009 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hence Other.

I did not want to list too many trades

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 6, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I dont know how it could be anything other than Ramirez

They stopped the Post-Santo revolving door and got the only real leadoff man we’ve had all decade

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Mar 6, 2009 3:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Good Point

I had almost forgotten about what a joke the 3B thing was. Jeez, we almost had another f$%#’n “curse” to talk endlessly about. Every year, every 3B: “is this the guy to finally bring consistency to the position?” But then Aramis came in and ended the conversation.

by MikeIowa on Mar 9, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lofton and Rammy

Helped us immensely in the final few months of the season and in the playoffs in 03. Wasn’t Randall Simon it it too?

"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti

by wrigleyrocker12 on Mar 6, 2009 3:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think he was acquired later on

mightve even been released by them

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Mar 6, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

August 17, 2003: Randall Simon was traded by the Pittsburgh Pirates to the Chicago Cubs for Ray Sadler

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 6, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahhh

So same team, different trade.

"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti

by wrigleyrocker12 on Mar 6, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A-Ram/Lofton

Followed by Karros/Grudz. Both were excellent trades, but A-Ram has been a fixture in the Cubs lineup since and has really been fantastic in his role. Someone was right, we also got the only real lead-off hitter we’ve had this whole decade, so that’s definitely a plus as well.

by AeroZach on Mar 6, 2009 3:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ramirez

Voted for Ramirez/Lofton as well. Grudz/Karros was a close second. Two years ago, before the 07’ season, I would have answered Grudz/Karros. Recalling my own mumbling about Ramirez’s defense, leg injuries/DL time/lack of hustle and slow starts that took a turn for the better come Memorial Day. He always could hit, but he’s no Mr. October. Ramirez has matured as a player since being acquired.

by AboutTheCubs on Mar 6, 2009 9:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

While the Ramirez/Lofton for cast-offs was easily the best in my mind...

…for as much as it’s been panned the trade with the fish for Alfonseca and Clement has really aged pretty well.

March 27, 2002: Antonio Alfonseca and Matt Clement to the Chicago Cubs for Julian Tavarez, Ryan Jorgensen, Dontrelle Willis, and Jose Cueto (minors).

Alfonseca was a passable reliever for us (relative to most Cubs bullpen arms, at least) and Clement gave us three very solid seasons even if it didn’t translate better for him in the W/L records. Meanwhile, Cueto and Jorgensen were both busts, Tavarez was a free agent after 2002 anyway, and Willis only really had two good seasons (2003, where he might not have been as good as Clement anyway, and 2005) in spite of the hype…and frankly he wouldn’t have likely advanced out of our relatively deep-armed farm system before 2005 or 2006, so he wouldn’t have had anywhere near as much of an impact for us as he did for Florida.

Again, it certainly doesn’t rank up with the best trades, but it doesn’t sound nearly as bad now as it’s been accused of being…

by MarchHare on Mar 6, 2009 10:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

That trade seemed to hurt when there was all that D-Train hype, but Clement was solid and part of the reason we made the playoffs.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Mar 8, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Best Aram

Worst Pierre

by Steve Sax on Mar 6, 2009 11:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Well, Mitre and Pinto aren't that great

It’s basically Pierre for Nolasco, who we don’t need now. In hindsight, this trade barely effected us..

#34: You'll be missed!

by Chanman25 on Mar 7, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nolasco would look pretty good in the Cub rotation.

And it’s basically Nolasco, who may have a long ML career as a starter, for one year of Pierre. That’s pretty one-sided.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 7, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he would, but I'm content with

Zambrano, Dempster, Harden, Lilly, Marshall as my rotation..

#34: You'll be missed!

by Chanman25 on Mar 7, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Cubs had Nolasco...

… they might not have had to make the Harden deal last year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 7, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Which do you think was worse;

the Cubs trading Nolasco for Pierre or the Dodgers signing Pierre to a 5 year contract for $44 million?

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Mar 9, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

The Dodgers deal, hands down. That might be one of the worst free-agent signings ever.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 4:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ranks up there with Sarge Jr by the Angels

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And, the Dodgers signing of Andruw Jones and Jason Schmidt.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Todd Hundley by the Cubs

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bad, but at least they were able to dump the contract.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

surprisingly, yes they were

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And, for useful players.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not just players

but did not eat any of his salary, in fact got $2m from LAD

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only the fact that Ramirez has been here so long and been so good...

… makes that a better trade.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Pierre trade was bad - but

it was bad from the way I, and many others here, look at baseball. From the Dusty view of baseball, Pierre was exactly what they wanted. He led off, got hits and stole bases. It’s not like they traded for Pierre and he stunk in a new way. That trade was a case of Jim Hendry bowing to a poor view of what his manager said was needed. Along those lines, they’re smaller chips, but in a relative way, I’m not sure that trade wasn’t as bad as the trade Lou pushed Jim to do of Infante and Ohman for Ascanio. We got the worse reliever and gave up the guy who turned out to be the best SS of the three we had on roster in 2008.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Mar 8, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Irony...

… had Infante been on the 2006 Cubs, Dusty would have called him one of his “horses” and started him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, Dusty...

I watched the Reds 30-in-30 the other day on MLBN and found myself smiling that he’s not a Cub. That Reds team has a lot of talent – it’s a good thing for us they’ve also got Dusty.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Mar 8, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

They’ll hit, but someone on that pitching staff will get burned out. Last year it was Harang. This year, who knows?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it was Arroyo who said something like

“Yeah, I’d be glad to get worked to the point where I, too, could go on 3 days rest,” on that 30-in-30 episode and I thought, “Um, did you see ”http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=haranaa01&t=p&year=2008" target="new">what happened to Harang after he did that?" I can’t believe Dusty keeps finding people to defend him.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Mar 8, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

IN DUSTY WE TRUSTY!!!

Now that he doesn’t manage the Cubs.

by northernsails on Mar 15, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the A-Ram era began...

when die hard Cubs believing fan Matt Liston maxed out a major credit card to ‘grease’ the wheels by sending pizza’s to Pittsburgh (or was it to Jim Hendry, I can’t remember) every week until a deal was made to get Kenny Lofton primarily and ended up getting Aramis Ramirez in the process. If you haven’t seen Chasing October, you probably won’t know who Matt Liston is. He is the REAL #1 Cubs fan.

"Oh baby!" - Len Casper

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Mar 7, 2009 3:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I liked Chasing October as much as anyone

I liked that movie as much as anything but Hendry and the Pittsburgh GM got that done. It had nothing to do with any fans.

JIXAVERSARY! March 7, 2000 to March 7, 2009. My avatar refers to me participating in the writing challenge and making it~

by cubstoseriesby100 on Mar 8, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

trade

a-ram of course.i give hendry a lot of credit for keeping these guys around.aramis has been here since 03.thats huge considering many players dont last 3 yrs anymore.this is the best core of players since 69.hopefully this team will make a world series before they get too old.

by NOMAR on Mar 7, 2009 5:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

over a decade, lets not forget these "gems"

Bruce Sutter for Leon Durham, Ken Ritz and Ty Waller
Bill Buckner for Eckersley
Joe Carter for Sutcliffe
Lee Smith for Al Nipper and Calvin Schiraldi
Matt Karchner for Jon Garland

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 7, 2009 2:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The Buckner-for-Eckersley deal was a good one.

It helped the Cubs into the postseason. Trading Eckersley away for three minor leaguers of no impact — THAT was a bad deal.

The Sutcliffe deal was also a good one. The Cubs made the playoffs with him. If he hadn’t been hurt the next year he would have had as much a positive impact on the Cubs as Carter had in Cleveland — and the Cubs had two playoff teams with Sutcliffe and Cleveland? Zero with Carter.

The others, I’m agreed with you.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 7, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Matt Karchner for Jon Garland

could be similar, as Karchner was immediate help in the pen, not great but was not bad as well. It was a your guy can help us now and out guy can help you later kind of trade

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 7, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Karchner was awful.

He had a 5.14 ERA and allowed 6 homers in 29 appearances. That was a ridiculously bad deal.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 7, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wanted to kill my TV

every time I saw Matt Karchner!

"I lof to hit de home ron!"

by Tekboy on Mar 7, 2009 8:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I've voted Aramis, but here a couple "others" to remember fondly

I remember a Giants fan friend of mine was upset that the Cubs got both Jerome Williams and David Aardsma for LaTroy Hawkins. That’s one of those context trade. At the time it seemed like we got a good deal, although neither player helped the Cubs much at all.

The twin trades of Ceda for Walker and Hart for Bynum were both minor, but amazing gets considering what we gave up.

I think that if Omar Infante had played for us last year, we’d be a lot more amazed that we got him for Jacque Jones.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Mar 8, 2009 2:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

For Aardsma, at least the Cubs still have Neal Cotts.

Cotts can be maddening, but at times useful.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And for some odd reason

I’ll always remember Jerome Williams special diet where he ate nothing but chicken all winter. So, we’ve got Cotts and the memories.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Mar 8, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe he got that diet

from Jerome Walton

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 8, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's why the vast majority is wrong

A good trade is when a deal can be made w/o the other side being in dire need. Rami and D-Lee trades were with 2 teams that had to dump salary. Half the teams could have done that. Hendry was just there first and the Cubs had a serious need at those positions. Fleecing a team because they are in the dumper isn’t your guy being good as much as the other side was nearly SOL.

Nomar and Matty didn’t pan out, Harden is still TBD.

Grudz and Karros for a cancer – a costly cancer – was brilliant. Yeah Karros was due an $8M salary IIRC but more dollars went to LA than came back here, so it’s not a salary dump on the other side like Rami/D-Lee’s were.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Mar 13, 2009 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs