"All Time Home Grown Team vs. All Time Acquired Team" Cubs Team

by flachimesa on Mar 8, 2009 8:56 AM CDT Comment 97 comments

Paul Sullivan, blogger, TV producer, filmmaker and self-proclaimed "comedian obsessed with baseball" has been working on a project on his blog Sully Baseball called All Time Home Grown Team vs. All Time Acquired Team for every MLB team. As of this writing he has completed 24 of 30 teams. He recently did the White Sox and Brewers. He has not done the Cubs yet.

Sully Baseball is entertaining on-line baseball reading.

For those that want to take the time and participate, I thought it would be fun for BCB readers to put together their own All Time Home Grown Team vs. All Time Acquired Team Cubs team similar to how Sully is doing his.

Going by Sully's Rules for the Rosters, choose players for the Cubs All Time Home Grown Team and again for the Cubs All Time Acquired Team.

Choose one for each of the following positions:
Starting Catcher
Starting First Baseman
Starting Second Baseman
Starting Shortstop
Starting Third Baseman
Starting Left Fielder
Starting Center Fielder
Starting Right Fielder

Choose five for the Starting Rotation
Starting Pitcher
Starting Pitcher
Starting Pitcher
Starting Pitcher
Starting Pitcher

Choose five for the Bullpen
Relief Pitcher
Relief Pitcher
Relief Pitcher
Relief Pitcher
Relief Pitcher

Choose one for each "bench" player or reserve
Reserve Infielder
Reserve Infielder
Reserve Outfielder
Reserve Outfielder
Reserve Catcher
Pinch Hitter Off of the Bench (since the Cubs don't use the DH except in inter-league play)

Choose one hitter or a pitcher who just shouldn't be omitted from mention
25th Man

In Sullivan's Rules for the Rosters he writes

And to set very strict rules in my obsessive list writing, in order to be on the Home Grown Team, you need to be signed by a team and brought up through the farm system.

Players acquired as minor leaguers, like Roberto Clemente, Jeff Bagwell and Jason Varitek would all be the Acquired Team, even though they spent their entire Major League career in a single uniform.

FUN FACT: Roberto Clemente was a Rule 5 draft pickup by the Pirates from the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1954.

Another FUN FACT: Paul Sullivan produced Jon Stewart's Daily Show and Dennis Miller's Sports Unfiltered.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

3 recs | Comment 97 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Wow, this is a lot of work, let me think about this one for a while.

Just to make it clear, this Paul Sullivan is a different person than the Tribune beat writer.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Imagine how much time Sully spends doing this for every team

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Mar 8, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I spend

I spend WAAAAY too much time on these

by SullyBaseball on Mar 12, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But I appreciate the time you spend

As an older fan, I was raised with the Saturday Game-of-the-Week and daytime-skip-school baseball. I can recall my PE teacher rolling a black-and-white TV on a cart into the gym to watch the World Series games. Do they even have PE classes anymore?

I enjoyed the pre-free-agency days of baseball when you can root for the same starting position players and pitchers year after year. Blockbuster trades were exciting. Free agency took the wind out of that sail.

I sorta miss those days.

Reading your articles on the All-Time teams takes me back. Thanks for that.

"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland

by flachimesa on Mar 12, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok I didnt have the WS game on BW

But I remember no lights, skipping class for games, sturday Game of the week was a family gathering

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 12, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's my stab at a homegrown team:

Starting Catcher: Gabby Hartnett
Starting First Baseman: Phil Cavarretta
Starting Second Baseman: Billy Herman
Starting Shortstop: Ernie Banks
Starting Third Baseman: Ron Santo
Starting Left Fielder: Billy Williams
Starting Center Fielder: Andy Pafko
Starting Right Fielder: Frank “WIldfire” Schulte

Choose five for the Starting Rotation
Starting Pitcher: Greg Maddux
Starting Pitcher: Rick Reuschel
Starting Pitcher: Carlos Zambrano
Starting Pitcher: Ed Reulbach
Starting Pitcher: Big Bill Lee

Choose five for the Bullpen
Relief Pitcher: Bruce Sutter
Relief Pitcher: Lee Smith
Relief Pitcher: Carlos Marmol
Relief Pitcher: Kerry Wood
Relief Pitcher: Don Elston

Choose one for each “bench” player or reserve
Reserve Infielder: Stan Hack
Reserve Infielder: Johnny Evers
Reserve Outfielder: Jimmy Ryan
Reserve Outfielder: Augie Galan
Reserve Catcher: Johnny Kling
Pinch Hitter Off of the Bench (since the Cubs don’t use the DH except in inter-league play): Charlie Grimm

Choose one hitter or a pitcher who just shouldn’t be omitted from mention
25th Man: Frank Chance

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd think Cap Anson deserves a spot on the list...

…but for the life of me, I can’t decide whether he’s “home grown” or not by the rules of the list :)

by MarchHare on Mar 8, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

I’d probably call him “homegrown”.

Could have put him on the list as a backup. I’d still rather have Cavarretta as my 1B.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope, not "homegrown"

The bigoted hitting machine (sorry, I still can’t get over one of our all-time Colts/Cubs helping to keep blacks from playing baseball for another 50 or 60 years) was brought over from Philadelphia by Mr. Spalding for the inaugural NL season.
If you look at the 1876 roster & where they came from, you might be inclined to call it an “all-star team”….but a championship’s a championship in my books.

by Jaydee1978 on Mar 9, 2009 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point taken, I suppose.

Depends on what you consider a “major league”.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I looked at a few other options but I think you have them right. I didn’t like leaving off Lon Warneke but he falls as #6 to me. Maybe he can get on for best homegrown nickname. Woody English played on two NL champions but he doesn’t get in over Evers and Hack.

by rlpete on Mar 9, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And, an all-time acquired team:

Choose one for each of the following positions:
Starting Catcher: Jody Davis
Starting First Baseman: Derrek Lee
Starting Second Baseman: Ryne Sandberg
Starting Shortstop: Ivan DeJesus (slim pickin’s here)
Starting Third Baseman: Aramis Ramirez
Starting Left Fielder: Riggs Stephenson
Starting Center Fielder: Rick Monday
Starting Right Fielder: Kiki Cuyler

Choose five for the Starting Rotation
Starting Pitcher: Mordecai Brown
Starting Pitcher: Charlie Root
Starting Pitcher: Fergie Jenkins
Starting Pitcher: Claude Passeau
Starting Pitcher: Rick Sutcliffe

Choose five for the Bullpen
Relief Pitcher: Randy Myers
Relief Pitcher: Rod Beck
Relief Pitcher: Phil Regan
Relief Pitcher: Lindy McDaniel
Relief Pitcher: Ryan Dempster

Choose one for each “bench” player or reserve
Reserve Infielder: Glenn Beckert
Reserve Infielder: Harry Steinfeldt
Reserve Outfielder: Andre Dawson
Reserve Outfielder: Hank Sauer
Reserve Catcher: Randy Hundley
Pinch Hitter Off of the Bench (since the Cubs don’t use the DH except in inter-league play): Sammy Sosa

Choose one hitter or a pitcher who just shouldn’t be omitted from mention
25th Man: Hack Wilson

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't get how you pick ANY of those relievers over Sutter

Best reliever I ever saw when he was with the Cubs. I have never felt secure with any Cubs reliever except him.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Mar 8, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because Sutter was homegrown.

Did you not read the rules here? I listed Sutter as first in my “homegrown” list.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Although he was drafted by the Washington Senators in 1970, he did not sign with them

He was first signed by the Cubs in 1971 as an amateur free agent.

“Home Grown” Cub reliever.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Mar 8, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry looked at the wrong list of yours

All is perfect

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Mar 8, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

TWYS

Ramlee Zamfukusoridero

by hiphopgamer26 on Mar 8, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How do you not put Sammy Sosa on there?

"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano

by JohnM on Mar 8, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or rather (now I seem him)

How do you make the 3rd best Cub of all time a pinch hitter and DH six times a year?

"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano

by JohnM on Mar 8, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was just going to ask that myself...

…Dont get me wrong, Kiki Cuyler was a solid right fielder… His .321 average is solid, no doubt, but I dont see much power in that lineup. Sammy should be a starter, IMO.

One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola

by Ryan at Cubshub on Mar 8, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My own opinion...

… YMMV. IMO, Sosa’s numbers may be tainted. Cuyler is a Hall of Famer in his own right and one of the best Cubs ever.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Once again, I agree...

…but I just dont see much power in your lineup… It’d be a solid lineup, I’ll give ya that, and Kiki IS a good/great player… but if you are talking about a fantasy lineup (which I assume is what we’re doing here) then you’d want some thump, and Sammy’s my guy.

I guess I’d settle for Dawson if Sammy wasnt available for the starting lineup.

One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola

by Ryan at Cubshub on Mar 8, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I debated between Dawson & Cuyler, they're pretty close.

I was trying to construct a 25-man roster, not “just” a fantasy team. Sammy… well, I guess I should have considered him, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also...

… between Sandberg, Lee, Davis and Ramirez (assuming we get all these players at their peaks), that’s pretty good power.

I also left Mark Grace off my “homegrown” team, and probably could have put him there instead of Grimm.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No Grover Cleveland Alexander?

Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.

by Bricks and Ivy on Mar 8, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't on the team long enough.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

now even harder might be

who is the managers of the two teams?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 8, 2009 3:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

could Maddux

have been on both technically?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 8, 2009 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No, he's homegrown.

Even after being reacquired, he’s still a product of the Cub farm system.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

WOW

This is a pretty cool idea. I’ll try to work on my list tonight… So far, I only see Al’s list. Mine will definitely be more personal.

by TheHawkRules on Mar 8, 2009 4:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That's as it should be.

It’s supposed to be your personal opinion.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For the acquired team...

…do we count them at their best regardless of what team they were on at the time, or as they were when they were acquired by the Cubs?

Rogers Hornsby would look pretty good in that acquired Cubs infield… but only in his prime when he was a Cardinal, not when he came to the Cubs late in his career.

by mistersite on Mar 8, 2009 6:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't matter for this purpose.

Either a player was from the Cubs farm system (or, signed by them in the days before farm system), or he wasn’t.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't matter for what team they're on...

…but it does matter for whether or not they make the team.

If I got 1921-25 Hornsby, when he was a Cardinal, he’d be a lock for my acquired Cubs team… don’t know if I’d start him at 2B, but he’d definitely be on the roster.

But if I had to take the older version of Hornsby that actually played for the Cubs – one season of great ball followed by six years of washed up – he wouldn’t make the cut.

by mistersite on Mar 9, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For what Paul Sullivan is doing for his blog, players must have simply worn the uniform

for an official game to be considered on the team (e.g., Mike Piazza, Marlins) or been drafted and signed by a team (e.g., Adrian Gonzalez, Marlins).

Sully went with Adrian Gonzalez as a 25th Man on the Marlins “Home Grown” Team even though he never played a game in a Marlins uniform.

Mike Piazza is on the Marlins “All Time Acquired” Team as a reserve catcher even though Piazza played only 5 games with the Fish.

Hey, with the Marlins you have to reach deep to find 50 players to roster two teams.

Joe Carter and Rogers Hornsby wore Cubs unis, so they qualify. I think the Cubs have enough talent to exclude both of them. Hornsby is on my “Acquired Team” as a 25th Man. After all, he did have a MVP season with the Cubs in 1929. Hmmm….

Roberto Clemente was drafted and signed by the Brooklyn Dodgers as an amateur free agent but Sullivan did not include him on either of the Dodgers All Time Teams.

This is for fun. No right or wrong answers. I’m curious to see how some of our lists compare to what Sullivan posts when he does the Cubs.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Mar 9, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That may be the only photo of Piazza in a Marlins uniform.

He doesn’t look happy to be in it, either.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe someone threw a bat fragment at him.

"I've got an idea...an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about." ~Peter Griffin

by Goodie1969 on Mar 9, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still working on my list

I’m trying to put some thought into this. Some choices are easy, others are not, especially when choosing between players from different eras.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Mar 9, 2009 7:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This would be a cool poll

To see who everyone picks.

by Steve Sax on Mar 9, 2009 8:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

How About Post-1975 Homegrown Team?

I’d like to put together a team of Cubs homegrown products that debuted in 1975 or later. I chose 1975 because that was the first year of free agency.

Catcher: Geovany Soto
First Base: Mark Grace
Second Base: No clue (Sandberg was a Phillie)
Third Base: Kevin Orie? (Please help!)
Shortstop: Shawon Dunston
Left Field: Derrick May (Yikes!)
Center Field: Jerome Walton (Yikes!)
Right Field: Need Help (Sosa was a Ranger and White Sox)

Starting Pitchers:
Greg Maddux
Carlos Zambrano
Mike Krukow (Yikes!)
Kerry Wood
Mark Prior? (Need help here)

(Rick Reuschel debuted before 1975, so he can’t be on the post free agency homegrown team).

Bullpen
Bruce Sutter
Lee Smith
Carlos Marmol
Kerry Wood (maybe he can relieve himself on the team)
Les Lancaster? (Need help here)

Additional Pitcher (because of Wood being listed twice)
Frank Castillo? (Please help here)

I won’t get into the reserves.

This team doesn’t impress me that much. This shows that the farm system over the last 35 years (save for the Dallas Green years) has been sub-par.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 9, 2009 8:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Theriot at Second?

Well, Theriot came up as a second baseman. Fontenot doesn’t count as homegrown because he was in the Orioles organization. That’s a tough position to fill on the team.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 9, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL at Kerry Wood "relieving himself"

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, it worked for Moises Alou.

by mistersite on Mar 9, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

TWSS

by northernsails on Mar 24, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I once heard Jose Mota

on an Angels broadcast talking about how Bartolo Colon didn’t want to come out of a game and he said “Colon wants to relieve himself, right here, on the mound.”

I’d swear I was the only one to catch it (it was opening day, 2004) but my wife heard it too.

by Josh77 on Mar 11, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The best 2nd baseman

but he didn’t play much for the Cubs was Scott Fletcher.

by rlpete on Mar 9, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And he was a #1 pick, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks and Farm System Under Green

I forgot Scott Fletcher was with the Cubs. He played so long ago. I’ll replace Frank Castillo on the team with Jamie Moyer. The post-1975 homegrown team still doesn’t impress me too much. Moyer, Dunston, Grace, Maddux, Walton, Derrick May, and Les Lancaster were all in the Cubs farm system with Dallas Green running things. Okay, I know, Walton, May, and Lancaster don’t exactly measure up to Moyer, Dunston, Grace, and Maddux. My point is the Cubs farm system hasn’t been the same since Green was GM.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 9, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

here is about the best I can do

Choose one for each of the following positions:
Catcher: Geovany Soto
First Base: Mark Grace
Second Base: Ryan Theriot
Third Base: Rey Sanchez
Shortstop: Shawon Dunston
Left Field: Mel Hall
Center Field: Dave Martinez
Right Field: Rafael Palmeiro

Starting Pitchers:
Greg Maddux
Carlos Zambrano
Kerry Wood
Les Lancaster
Dennis Lamp

Bullpen
Bruce Sutter
Lee Smith
Carlos Marmol
Terry Adams
Kyle Farnsworth

Brooks Kieschnick could be on the bench as a special utility player (OF and RP)

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

FYI this is the post 1975 team of home grown players

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I'd put Joe Carter on the homegrown post-1975 team...

… there’s no minimum amount of playing time, right? Carter had a better career than Hall.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No minimums. If a player wore a Cub uniform, had some quality playing time as a Cub

and you feel he deserves to be on one of these two teams, by all means, put him on.

There are no right or wrong answers. You may get flamed for some of your choices, but that’s your call.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Mar 9, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hadn't Thought About Minimum Playing Time

So far, on my “not so stellar” post-1975 homegrown Cubs team, Theriot has the minimum number of games played at his position, 79 at second base, among non-pitchers. There’s got to be a better homegrown Cubs rightfielder since 1975 than Scot Thompson. I can’t think of any right now.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 9, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

good call

can we use Olson, or he does not count since he had enough time in Chicago to have a hot dog then run?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he even had time for the hot dog.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forgot About Palmeiro

I will definitely replace Derrick May in left field with Rafael Palmeiro.

Starting Lineup (not in order):
LF Palmeiro
CF Walton
RF Scot Thompson (Ouch!)
SS Shawon Dunston
3B Kevin Orie (Ouch!)
2B Ryan Theriot (much more of a SS)
1B Mark Grace
C Geovany Soto
P Greg Maddux (over Zambrano)

This team still doesn’t look that good.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 9, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Walton / Thompson

there are others to choose from IMO over them, including Mel Hall, Joe Carter, and Dave Martinez. Martinez I believe played all three OF at one time or another.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

CF's Iffy, RF's A Huge Problem

As Cubs, I could put Mel Hall or Dave Martinez in CF ahead of Jerome Walton. There’s not much from which to choose among the three. Right field is amazingly tough. Martinez only played six games in right field for the Cubs. I’m trying to find guys who played at least 50 games at a certain position for the club. I hope that isn’t too high a floor. Keith Moreland, Andre Dawson, Sammy Sosa, and Jacque Jones were all acquired. It looks like I’m left with the very mortal and forgettable Scot Thompson in right field.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 9, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dunston was a Cubs prospect?

I thought they picked him up after he debuted with another team (I’m blanking on which one.

by northernsails on Mar 24, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Free Agency Era Homegrown Products

Most “homegrown” games played by position with Cubs
(Players who debuted in 1975 or later)

LF – Derrick May
CF – Jerome Walton
RF – Scot Thompson
3B – Kevin Orie
SS – Shawon Dunston
2B – Ryan Theriot
1B – Mark Grace
C – Joe Girardi
SP – Greg Maddux
RP – Lee Smith

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 10, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder what this would look like for other teams if you did the same thing with the same post-1975 restriction.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 10, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That Free Agency Thing

For the older franchises, I know the majority of the players on the “homegrown” team would come from the time before free agency. The trick is to see how the homegrown products have contributed since player movement became so frequent. I believe Geo is going to get past Joe Girardi in number of games played at catcher with the Cubs.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 11, 2009 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not necessarily.

Even many longtime Cubs had brief starts with other teams in the “old days” — look at Mordecai Brown, Bill Nicholson, Charlie Grimm. In fact, I shouldn’t have put Grimm on my “homegrown” team because he’s not.

Replace him on my “homegrown” team with Mark Grace.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 11, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Grimm and Cuyler Both with Pirates

I didn’t know that Cuyler and Grimm played together with Pittsburgh or that Grimm was with three different clubs before coming to the Cubs. Jolly Cholly played six seasons (not an insignificant amount of time) with the Pirates. I never would have guessed that.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 11, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Non Home Grown Team

Choose one for each of the following positions:
Starting Catcher: Jody Davis
Starting First Baseman: Derrek Lee
Starting Second Baseman: Ryne Sandberg
Starting Shortstop: Larry Bowa
Starting Third Baseman: Aramis Ramirez
Starting Left Fielder: Sammy Sosa
Starting Center Fielder: Kenny Lofton
Starting Right Fielder: Andre Dawson

Choose five for the Bullpen
Relief Pitcher: Randy Myers
Relief Pitcher: Rod Beck
Relief Pitcher: Phil Regan
Relief Pitcher: Lindy McDaniel
Relief Pitcher: Ryan Dempster

Choose one for each "bench" player or reserve
Reserve Infielder: Glenn Beckert
Reserve Infielder: Rick Monday
Reserve Outfielder: Gary Matthews (Sarge not Jr)
Reserve Outfielder: Hank Sauer
Reserve Catcher: Benito Santiago
Pinch Hitter Off of the Bench (since the Cubs don’t use the DH except in inter-league play): Keith Moreland (not only was he able to play all over, but he was a steady PH thru his career)

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Rick Monday

He was primarily a centerfielder for the Cubs.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 9, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

boy I need more Coffee......

but that is the nice part of Moreland, they can switch on this, with Moreland able to play all over

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are knocking off a HOF'er in Cuyler

for Matthews who really only had two seasons with the Cubs?

Santiago? He played one season for the Cubs. If you want to consider total career then you need Rogers Hornsby. I think he was a bit better than Beckert.

by rlpete on Mar 9, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

true

but Santiago was not a slouch behind the plate, and i had considered Steve Lake since it was a backup catcher i was looking for.

Sarge was not a HOFer but he was a hell of a leader. I have no problem with either in the line up, and had i seen Cuyler I may have choosen him over Sarge.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Santiago sucked as a Cub, though.

Michael Barrett would have been a better choice.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

home grown

Starting Catcher: Gabby Hartnett
Starting First Baseman: Mark Grace
Starting Second Baseman:
Starting Shortstop: Ernie Banks
Starting Third Baseman: Ron Santo
Starting Left Fielder: Billy Williams
Starting Center Fielder: Phil Cavarretta
Starting Right Fielder: Lou Brock

Choose five for the Starting Rotation
Starting Pitcher: Greg Maddux
Starting Pitcher: Rick Reuschel
Starting Pitcher: Carlos Zambrano
Starting Pitcher: Ed Reulbach
Starting Pitcher: Jamie Moyer

Choose five for the Bullpen
Relief Pitcher: Bruce Sutter
Relief Pitcher: Lee Smith
Relief Pitcher: Carlos Marmol
Relief Pitcher: Kerry Wood
Relief Pitcher: Willie Hernandez

Choose one for each "bench" player or reserve
Reserve Infielder: Stan Hack
Reserve Infielder: Shawon Dunston
Reserve Outfielder: Riggs Stephenson
Reserve Outfielder: Augie Galan
Reserve Catcher: Soto
Pinch Hitter Off of the Bench (since the Cubs don’t use the DH except in inter-league play): Charlie Grimm

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 9:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No starting 2B?

Did you forget Billy Herman?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you are correct. told you i needed coffee at that hour lol

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here goes

Choose one for each of the following positions:
Starting Catcher Todd Hundley
Starting First Baseman Matt Stairs
Starting Second Baseman Neifi Perez
Starting Shortstop Jeff Blauser
Starting Third Baseman Jose Macais
Starting Left Fielder Chico Walker
Starting Center Fielder Juan Pierre
Starting Right Fielder Jeromy Burnitz

Choose five for the Starting Rotation
Starting Pitcher Amaury Telemaco
Starting Pitcher Mike Harkey
Starting Pitcher Kevin Blankenship
Starting Pitcher Shawn Boskie
Starting Pitcher Ruben Quevedo

Choose five for the Bullpen
Relief Pitcher Chuck McElroy
Relief Pitcher Heathcliff Slocumb
Relief Pitcher Ray King
Relief Pitcher Bob Scanlan
Relief Pitcher Ed Lynch

Choose one for each “bench” player or reserve
Reserve Infielder Paul Noce
Reserve Infielder Gary Scott
Reserve Outfielder Gary Varsho
Reserve Outfielder Karl Rhodes
Reserve Catcher Rick Wrona
Pinch Hitter Off of the Bench (since the Cubs don’t use the DH except in inter-league play) Carlos Lezcano

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 1:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

There goes

your credibility.

What’s up, Tim?

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Mar 9, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wanted to see how bad a team I could put together

to truly allow me to appreciate the current team even more…plus it allowed me to put off work a little more, while sitting at my desk looking thru some of the teams over the past 20 or so years.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're putting together a bad team...

…that doesn’t include Triple-A Rey Ordonez?

by mistersite on Mar 9, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

there is only so much room

I cant bring everyone….

sad thing, this team was wasier to put together than a good one

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's the nature of the game.

There are a whole lot more crappy ballplayers than great ones. You could probably put together an all-time bad Yankees team that would rival this one in terms of suckitude.

by mistersite on Mar 10, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that and even sadder

I probably could have made it a worse team in terms of talent still had I wanted to take that much more time.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 10, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This must be the all-worst acquired team.

Except Telemaco, Harkey, Noce, Scott, Slocumb, Boskie, Varsho, Wrona and Lezcano were from the Cubs farm system.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

got to admit

that infield is amazing

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and by amazing, I mean

recockulously horrible!

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Paul Noce

He was a Padres farmhand before being traded to the Cubs in the minors.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Mar 9, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you are saying the Cubs

went out to either trade or sign 18 of those players I posted as my “bust squad”

what a bad job of player evaluation

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 9, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

I must say this is quite a compliment to the writing I’ve been doing!

Thanks for coming up with all of these rosters… it sure will make my life a little easier when I write the Cubs list!

I am finishing up Cleveland and I WAS going to do the Phillies next but I am going to do the Cubs instead.

by SullyBaseball on Mar 11, 2009 3:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hi Paul

I’ve been following your blog for awhile. Great reading. I started this fanpost to get the BCB perspective and then compare it to yours when it came out. [Any inside information on when the Cubs will be done?]

The participation here has been minimal. I’m guilty of not getting mine done. I am still working on it.

If this fanpost gets a few REC, it may stay alive for a while longer and then we can compare notes.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me address a few things

For things like Mike Piazza with the Marlins and Adrian Gonzalez with the Marlins… they were done tongue in cheek. (same with Randy Winn)

When I set off to write these I was originally going to just do the Red Sox (I’m a native New Englander) and the Yankees (I lived in New York for 15 years) but I decided to try and do it for every team.

I realize that doing it for EVERY team is somewhat absurd… the Marlins have had a HORRIBLE time developing their own players. They are great at acquiring other minor leaguers from teams (Dan Uggla, Hanley Ramirez, Derek Lee, Dontrelle Willis, AJ Burnett, Carl Pavano) but their own farm system has been so barren that people like Logan Kensing get a mention!

The Rockies pitching staff was also absurd. (Kevin Ritz???)

But the thing I can not stress enough is that these lists should be two things:

1) Emotional
2) Fun

And some people have taken it even more seriously than me (and I’m the lunatic figuring out that Nate Colbert needs to be on the Padres acquired team!!!)

So one thing that it ISN’T is a purely statistical list. There are players that I will include solely based on being a post season hero. Dave Roberts and Dave Henderson are on the Red Sox acquired team and they played less than a season in Boston. But what they did in 2004 and 1986 was so amazing that I had to include them over the likes of Tony Armas and Ken Harrleson.

I included in the Pirates acquired team a pitcher named Red Oldham over some other established pitchers like Jim Gott or Grant Jackson.

Oldham was a nondescript pitcher but he came in to pitch in the 9th inning of game 7 of the 1925 World Series and got out Sam Rice, Bucky Harris and Goose Goslin (all future Hall of Famers) to clinch the World Series. To me, emotionally, that inning means more than the entire career of Grant Jackson.

Post season heroes will ALWAYS get a nod from me over someone with a calculator telling me that someone’s OPS was higher than Tony Womack’s!

Also, if you disagree with one of my picks, it’s not because I am retarded.
Man the hate e mails I got by starting Mike Piazza over Gary Carter was borderline insane.

Now if I start Jeromy Burnitz in the acquired team’s right field slot over Andre Dawson… you can take issue

I am using everyone’s rosters as suggestions and I may have some ideas for myself

As for the Cubs, they have had so many different greats at so many positions, I won’t have a problem filling out the rosters but I like to see what you Cub fans think so I have an idea of who is popular and who isn’t

I am still figuring out what to do about Sosa and Dawson.

Personally, I’d start the Hawk, but what do I know?

Thanks for reading it

Sully

by SullyBaseball on Mar 11, 2009 3:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey, don't take Cubbie-Tim too seriously [about Burnitz]

He’s been baking in the Texas sun waiting for the Cubs regular season to start.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

also notice that was my third roster

I had two serious ones prior, and that “horrid” one was 100% tongue in cheek

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 11, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know, I know

I’m sure Sully does as well.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I finished my Cubs roster

I am now typing up the bios for both the Indians and the Cubs at the same time.

I have some that match yours
I have some of your GLARING omissions (Where was Hack Wilson folks?)

I honor King Kelly

And there is one that I KNOW will get people mad and I DON’T CARE!!!!!

Plus I give love to a pair of Cubs batting champs including one former Red Sox player who got WAAAAAAAY too much grief for an overrated World Series blunder.

I thought about naming the Billy Goat as the 25th man
But of course he ISN’T a man.

by SullyBaseball on Mar 12, 2009 12:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ouch with the Billy Goat

Please tell me you did NOT name Steve Bartman or Father Time as the 25th Man!

"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland

by flachimesa on Mar 12, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like Buckner

Like Buckner, I felt that Bartman’s infamy was incredibly overrated.

I broke down the reasons in this post in 2007

Bartman didn’t blow a 3 run lead.
Prior should have shrugged and moved on. The TEAM became unglued… but they still had a 3 run lead and they had a lead in Game 7

The fact that Bartman is a goat and Alex Gonzalez has gone scot free is insane

by SullyBaseball on Mar 12, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs