Theriot Fielding Tracking

I just want to track Theriot's fielding weakness, especially when it comes to muscling up on his throw from the hole and causing an error or him coming across the bag in a critical DP. Today he muscled up on Hall and it led to an unearned run. That said he did smack a 2-out double, his offense this year has been quite strong

about 3 years ago Ivy Walls 38 comments 0 recs |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

So what that's point of this?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Apr 10, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions

Or, more likely...

what’s the point of this?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Apr 10, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions

The point is that like catcher, shortstop is the key defensive player on the field.

There are trade offs in these situations, Theriot is hot batting in the bottom of the order but his most important role is fielding his position.

Yesterday his error led to a run in the 1st inning, and then in the 9th he and Soriano did not get the out on a tough pop up that Theriot called for. That out was huge for it scored the tying run.

Then on the winning run he went home with a throw that had to be perfect. I could also say that a better LF’er might have been able to make that play that resulted in a double even though Soriano had made a nice play earlier.

Here is the problem with late inning defensive alignment the Cubs have, Theriot and Soriano have some defensive weaknesses, I just want to track how many games Cubs lose because of this defensive weakness.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Apr 11, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions

Well...

the Fanshot was worthless. Theriot made two errors. Everyone knows this.

But, as your analysis above supports, a fanpost wouldn’t be bad that actually discussed the problem in depth. We have more than these 4 games of data, and Theriot’s clearly a 2B and no more. I don’t think a perfect throw was needed for the out at home; a strong arm is what was needed and that is something Theriot just doesn’t have.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Apr 11, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions

nothing...

but player bashing here even though were 2-1 and in 1st place. geez even winning don’t please some fans.

I didn't get the players I wanted in the offseason!! Hopefully I get what I want in the Regular Season---The World Series Trophy!! Go Cubbies!!

by cubsluver22 on Apr 10, 2009 5:45 PM CDT reply actions

Theriots defense hit a new low today

Some games it’s really frustrating to watch.

www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com

by nji232 on Apr 10, 2009 7:22 PM CDT reply actions

He cost us the game today

I despise this man in the field so much

by sheamcmurray on Apr 10, 2009 7:46 PM CDT reply actions

I would not even go that far...

by BadDecisions on Apr 10, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Wow...

Is THAT a misrepresentation of the game today.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Yep.

Now, that first-inning error was bad. But the ninth-inning play was the only play he had.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Apr 10, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Any other SS in the league...

gets Weeks out at home on that throw in the 9th. I stand by my comment.

by sheamcmurray on Apr 10, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions

You stand...in the place where you work...

now face west…

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions

...think about direction wonder why you have it now...

You can call me "20K."

by daver on Apr 11, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions

when you get

some “real baseball knowledge” come back and discuss this topic!!

I didn't get the players I wanted in the offseason!! Hopefully I get what I want in the Regular Season---The World Series Trophy!! Go Cubbies!!

by cubsluver22 on Apr 11, 2009 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions

Relax... enhance your inner calm

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions

How about

When he drops below .300BA we bother to discuss his defensive weakness again. Theriot isn’t going anywhere soon so what will probably be the start of weekly Theriot bashings again, why bother?

by ak123 on Apr 10, 2009 8:01 PM CDT reply actions

Aside from fielding miscues by Theriot, what other topics...

…aren’t we allowed to discuss here, on account of if we ignore them they will go away?

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Apr 11, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions

Theriot has made two errors (Fanshot) = pointless
Theriot needs to be replaced at SS (Fanshot) = I’m all ears

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Apr 11, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions

Amen CW

Unfortunately, some people here can’t tolerate any criticism of the Cubs.

I don’t see why we, as fans, can’t discuss a player’s possible difficienies without being accused of bashing him.

For the record, I like Theriot. I want him to do well. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to give his flaws a free pass.

by bluekoolaide on Apr 11, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions

You're right, and...

… no one’s saying we can’t criticize the Cubs; all of us do here.

But I think Ryan Theriot’s shortcomings are well known. Lou likes him, so he’s not going to be replaced no matter how much his shortcomings are pointed out. That’s really the issue.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Apr 11, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Right

The only way I see Theriot getting replaced at SS is a) major injury (which none of us would wish on even a least favorite Cub) or b) Fontenot AND Miles failing at 2B and the Cubs trading for a SS and moving Theriot over. That’s clearly not something we want to happen either. Our chance to get a SS upgrade has come and gone.

Derrek Lee is good.

by DGU on Apr 12, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions

All I'm saying is

We’ve been debating this here for over a year now and everyone just says the same thing so all I’m suggesting is lets see how he plays out the first month of the season and if Lou does anything about it.

by ak123 on Apr 11, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions

Both above points are well taken

Maybe that’s the problem with threads like this; as Al points out, Lou likes Theriot and that coupled with the fact that there really isn’t any alternative to him anyway, means that getting too caught up in arguments is sort of pointless.

At least Theriot’s offense has been solid so far.

by bluekoolaide on Apr 11, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Theriot is in a fielding slump

… but overall he is MLB average. And scary as it is, he is the best fielding starting shortstop we’ve had since at least DeJesus and maybe Kessinger. I’m not counting Izturis because he did not start for a full year. We all recall Dunston’s wild throws, Blauser’s lack or range, Cedeno’s brain cramps, etc. Rey Sanchez and Ricky Gutierrez weren’t bad either, but I think over the course of a season I’ll take Theriot. Plus he is our best offensive short stop since Banks (or Nomar if you want to count him, which I don’t). Think about it. Who have we had who has been better?

"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester

by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 1:28 PM CDT reply actions

Really?

If you’re just talking about fielding, I’d take Alex Gonzalez (circa 2003) over Theriot in a second. He led the NL in fielding percentage at shortstop that year.

"May the sun never set on American baseball." ~Harry Truman

by Goodie1969 on Apr 11, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Perhaps ...

Gonzalez was a fine fielder. But about that error in game six …

"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester

by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Let's not go there. :)

It was untimely, yes, but it doesn’t erase the body of work he put together that season. Plus, I doubt Theriot would’ve hit a two-run homer off Josh Beckett in Game 1.

"May the sun never set on American baseball." ~Harry Truman

by Goodie1969 on Apr 11, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, maybe

But you can’t KNOW Theriot wouldn’t have hit a HR. Seriously, A-Gon’s game in the field was probably stronger than Theriot’s is now. Has anyone see Gonzalez on MLB Network? He’s not bad …. but still, if he could have fielded that grounder …..

"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester

by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions

do we rip Gopnzo and defend Buckner?

Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.

by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 11, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions

I did say Gonzo was good

on the MLB network. And he did drop a pretty easy grounder …

"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester

by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Everybody drops an easy one now and again...

Gonzalez just happened to do it at the worst time.

You asked if we have had a better shortstop. In terms of defense, many if not most of our previous shortstops have been better than Theriot defensively.

In terms of offense, we had quite a few shortstops as good or better: Dunston (similar low-700s OPS), Gutierrez (was actually better offensively in his two years as a Cub), Nomar (though he couldn’t stay healthy), Jose Hernandez (from 1997-1999 he was better).

by SouthernCub on Apr 12, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions

I would take Dunston or Bowa as well

Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.

by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 11, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Bowa as a Cub or a Phillie?

As a Phillie, he was pretty good fielder. As a Cub, pretty average. But dependable. I love Shawon like a son, but I cringed every time the ball was hit in his direction….

"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester

by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions

either

the point I was making, is we do not ahve to go back as far as DeJesus or Kessinger to find a SS who was able to get the job done.

Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.

by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 11, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Sorry but Gonzo's error in game 6

will forever taint him as far as I’m concerned. Watching him boot that grounder was probably the single most gut churning moment of my life as a Cub fan.

by bluekoolaide on Apr 11, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Btw-perspective can often be a very good thing

And this is one of those times; comparing Theriot to so many of our other past shortstops has suddenly made me realize that maybe he ISN’T all that bad.

by bluekoolaide on Apr 11, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions

it may hurt him in Cubs glory

but it does not replace how well he played thru his career over all in the field.

Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.

by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 11, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Ryan Theriot is underrated and an asset

I used to be cynical of Theriot. But not anymore. Theriot delivers in whatever role he is asked to fill and has become a catalyst for this offense and is arguably the best player on this roster at “executing” in game situations. He also is a decent shortstop. Not great by any stretch, but certainly makes the plays he needs to make.

by BLou on Apr 12, 2009 10:05 PM CDT reply actions