Koyie, Harden Star, But Gregg (And Lou) Fail In Cubs' 4-3 Loss To Brewers
This one, I'm putting on Lou.
Yes, there were plenty of player failures in today's 4-3 Cubs loss to the Brewers, but some of the decisions by Lou Piniella today were mind-boggling.
He finally let Sean Marshall pitch -- great, since he's not scheduled to start till next Thursday. But then, he yanked him after one batter. Having also let Neal Cotts play the LOOGY today, that left Lou plenty short had the game gone into extra innings (only Angel Guzman and David Patton were left).
But to me, the most mystifying decisions made were in the Brewers' disastrous ninth inning -- why wasn't he issuing intentional walks once Rickie Weeks' double scored the tying run? Why would you ever want to face Corey Hart and Ryan Braun in a potential game-winning situation? Len and Bob complained on the air that the winning play, the grounder to Ryan Theriot that Theriot threw home in an unsuccessful attempt to get Weeks (and despite Koyie Hill's theatrics, there's no question Weeks was safe), should have been an attempted DP by Scrappy-Doo. However, Theriot was moving away from second base as he fielded the ball and I don't think there's any way a relay throw would have beaten Ryan Braun to first base -- then, Weeks scores anyway.
But if you walk Braun to load the bases -- a no-brainer, to me, since only the runner on third meant anything -- then, if you get a ground ball in the infield, Prince Fielder is an easy double play. (Also, the IF wasn't playing at DP depth with Braun batting.)
Here's something that wasn't Lou's fault: Kevin Gregg issued two unintentional walks in the ninth. This is something I was worried about the minute the Cubs got Gregg and I figured he might close -- too many walks, 37 of them in 68.2 innings with the Marlins last year. Today, they came back to bite the Cubs after they had fashioned a 3-2 lead on the back of Hill, who smacked a two-run homer in the sixth, following Milton Bradley's first homer (and first hit) as a Cub in the fourth. Hill's homer was only the fourth in his major league career (240 AB through today's game), and perhaps the Cubs won't miss Geo too much through the Milwaukee series.
The ninth-inning meltdown ruined a fine start by Rich Harden, who struck out ten Brewers in six innings, throwing a fine 63 strikes in 96 pitches. Harden was also the victim of bad Cubs play, when Theriot threw away an easy ground ball to lead off the game by Weeks, which led to an unearned run. Maybe we're talking about a victory tonight if Theriot makes that play. Other than that, the only real damage off Harden was Hart's solo homer in the third. Good news: Luis Vizcaino threw well in relief today; if he can keep this up, maybe the middle ranks of the bullpen will be more solid than we think.
But it was those walks that eventually helped lead to the Cubs' demise today. Cubs hitters drew seven walks: good. Cubs pitchers allowed seven walks: bad. The fourteen free passes led to the game's seemingly agonizing length of three hours and thirteen minutes.
Too bad there wasn't one more intentional walk. Maybe that would have turned defeat into victory. The Cubs do still have a chance to win the series, of course, on the back of Carlos Zambrano tomorrow night; he'll face the Brewers' Dave Bush (one of the Cubs' favorite punching bags: they are 7-1 lifetime against him) at 6:05 CDT.
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I am going to disagree with the overall premise
that places the blame at Lou’s feet. Lou pulled the strings and got the results, but the players did not execute. For example, you say its a no brainer that he should have walked Braun, but he got the desired result, a grounder to SS. It should have been a DP and we can argue over this or not, but IMO Theriot got a ball hard hit ball, fielded it and should have gotten the 6-4-3 DP.
Lou pulled the strings, agree or don’t, but the players did not perform. You need to expect that your closer is going to get the job done in the 9th, and he didn’t. You need to expect that your batters are going to score more than 3 runs off of Braden Looper, who was walking guys left and right, and when he did throw strikes, he was hitting the radar gun in the mid 80s. Looper was walking the house and throwing BP but Cubs batters, who were so disciplined that they raked the Astros on Wednesday for 11 runs were the opposite today.
Placing blame on Lou in this one, to me, is just rediculous. It was a team loss… poor defense, no offense, and bullpen pitchers that (aside from Marmol) threw like garbage today. The players did not get the job done and they lost a game that should have easily been in the win column.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 8:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see any way they could have turned a DP on that ball.
Theriot’s momentum had him going away from 2B. Braun would have beaten the relay easily.
Vizcaino also threw well today.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al Yellon on Apr 10, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also looked like
Theriot was playing in-between, and I think he was caught off guard by Weeks going home. Weeks broke back to the bag, then went home. Maybe that is why Theriots feet were not set, along with his weak arm.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Apr 10, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't want to be a downer, but
Vizcaino gave up a walk and a rocket to deep LF
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 10, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This game was a downer
but its only one loss in April. They’ll manage to overcome it.
by jeff_pico on Apr 10, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree it is way early
However the Cubs made and Lou made multiple mistakes that you really shake your head. If it is one or two things, fine, but there were so many it looked like the Cubs flew in from the west coast last night/early morning.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Apr 10, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope they will
but losses like this have a tendency to be those you look back on in Sept and wish you’d held on to.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 10, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vizcaino...
… also threw an 81MPH fat pitch to Mike Cameron (IIRC) and Brenly was shocked that the pitch didn’t end up in Lake Michigan.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you, Al.
No way Theriot turns a DP there. #1 He was fading away from the base. #2 The runner (I forget who it was) was just about there anyways. The best play in that situation was home. I think a good throw home might have gotten Weeks. Lou should not have had the infield in DP depth. Infield in and it’s an easy play home. However, he is making the big bucks and I’m not.
Bottom line is it’s just the 4th game of the year. It stings because it was the first blown save of the year but keep it in perspective. I still like Gregg as closer. He looked fantastic in the last out of the 8th.
Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.
by Bricks and Ivy on Apr 10, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry's fault...
The Riot isn’t a real SS…hence….real major league SS plays shouldn’t be expected from the position
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what do you look for in a real major league shortstop then?
i think he’s done pretty well. he might not have the arm like a lot of other shortstops but other than that he
s been pretty solid.
Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.
by Bricks and Ivy on Apr 11, 2009 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"but other than that.."
Unfortunately that “other” doesn’t outweigh his liabilities. He is pathetic on the basepaths, has no range and has a noodle arm. Shortstop and Theriot doesn’t belong in the same sentence.
by cubsnlinux on Apr 11, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't a big fan
of putting Miles in.
But at the end of the day, it’s one loss. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. Sometimes in rains.
Think about that.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ou're gonna have to learn your clichés. You're gonna have to study them, you're gonna have to know them. They're your friends. Write this down: "We gotta play it one day at a time."
Chuck Norris is a Cubs fan...
by Walker71421 on Apr 10, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think...
It can only hurt the ballclub.
Sorry for the thread hijack, but today’s loss can only be cured through movie quotes.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes. Think classy, you'll be classy.
Chuck Norris is a Cubs fan...
by Walker71421 on Apr 10, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Limpet jets of love...
Hey Crash, does that mean what I think it means?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man that ball got outta here in a hurry. .....
I mean anything travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don’t you think?
Chuck Norris is a Cubs fan...
by Walker71421 on Apr 10, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just one more dying quail...
And you’re in Yankee Stadium
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with ya.
This was not one of Lou’s finer moments. I think this bullpen will drive us all nuts this year. One day they will be lights out the next will be games like this one. When you bring your lefties in and they hit a batter (Cotts) and walk (Marshall) the first hitter they face, I just want to throw something.
But this is what our bullpen is, the guys out there have to suck it up and get it done.
I know Theriot doesn’t have a cannon arm, but is there a weaker armed shortstop in the majors?
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Apr 10, 2009 8:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You have 1 thing right...
The bullpen WILL drive you nuts because they are going to BLOW a lot of saves…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bullpen hasn't been that bad
Gregg has been TERRIBLE.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely....The pen...
might not be perfecct….but Gregg was the only one to give up any runs…he had his own inning…perfect “closer start”…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pen has given up
5 runs in about 12 innings. 3 of those to Gregg.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and...BTW the pen was ffine...
except ffor Gregg…..
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cotts and Marshall put on the only batters they faced
Vizcaino walked one and gave up a rocket.
I don’t think the pen was fine.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 10, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did they score?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, don't confuse the argument with logic!
Those 3 holds by our relievers mean nothing!
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Apr 11, 2009 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must be joking
And I must be bored to be posting on this.
So if a guy walks one batter and someone else bailed him out, he pitched fine?
Yeah, logical.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 12, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many poor decisions today and really bad execution all around....
….but the one that made no sense whatsoever was sending Miles in to PH. It was a game changer…
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Apr 10, 2009 8:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'd almost rather have seen Marmol
Swing three straight times and then pitch the next inning
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or how about Hoff? Isnt that why he is on the team?
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Apr 10, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have no problem saving Hoff
I just didn’t like wasting Marmol.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
burning Marmol in that spot made no sense to me.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 10, 2009 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
Then what’s Miles on the club for? Up one run going into the game late, you need someone who can make contact, get a decent fly ball and score the insurance run. Miles grounded into a DP. Hoff was also an option but don’t make him out to me anything more than he is, which is a very old rookie.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is a utility IF......and considering he is your backup catcher
…it was really dumb buring him in a PH situtation.
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Apr 10, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a point to that...
especially when you consider that Hill had just gotten hit on the foot…
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're kidding, right?
If Hill was hurt, which he wasn’t, Soto could have gone in for the last inning of the game.
He’s a utility infielder who was signed to play some significant time. To claim that Hoffpauir is all that better of a pinch hitting choice is just ignoring the facts.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really.....I have not read anywhere that Soto could have played...
…then why is Hoff on the team? Becuase he looks good in a uniform?
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Apr 10, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob and Len mentioned it...
But this was in the 7th, right? There were three innings of work yet.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Len/Bob said Soto could play defense in an emergency.
If we’re going to have the pinch hitter swing away in that situation, I bring in Hoff; if we’re putting something on, Miles. Of course, we get Miles hitting into a double play. Ugly.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didnt know Soto was avail...
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Apr 10, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must be reading too many Ivy Walls FanShots.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al Yellon on Apr 10, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is quite possible!
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Apr 10, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the rationale
that you are using for Hoffpauir is just as easily used on Miles. Either guy could have been used but claiming that using Miles over Hoffpauir is so egregious just befuddles me.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
burning your best reliever
in that situation is stupid to me anyway.
There were 2 outs. If Marmol goes up and simply Ks then Fonzie comes up with a runner on 3rd with 2 outs.. which is a better situation than Miles up anyway.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 10, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow I made no sense
there was 1 out. Marmol K would’ve made 2.
I need to stop typing before I confuse myself.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 10, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, I am starting to 2nd guess the passion for my argument here...especially now knowing Soto could play
….however your never going to put Hoff late for defense and you may very well need Miles.
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Apr 10, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying...
… that Hoff would’ve been fine there as would Miles. I thing the situation dictates that you bring in a guy who is going to make contact and hopefully get the ball into the outfield. Didn’t happen, but Miles has to be able to do that.
My frustration today is that, IMO, Lou pulled strings to put his team in position to win. At nearly every turn, the players did their level best to not perform.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really have a problem...
using Miles over Hoff.
I have a problem with either replacing Marmol
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Miles.............
……….got the nod because he is a switch hitter. The Brewers could have gone to the pen for a lefty if Hoff was inserted, but once Miles came out, there was no need for a pitching change.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
by tville on Apr 10, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll miss DeRo....
Sorry…Miles is kinda like that other favorite whipppin boy … NEFI PEREZ
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Or rather, let Marmol try to lay down a bunt. Then pitch. I don’t really like our bullpen.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WIN, LOSE or DRAW
THis came down to a loss this is a game that should have been won . Not sure what Lou was thinking . This should be a lesson for the bullpen . As for the Theriot throw to the plate it was off balance going to second was the better choice . Get ready for 2 more games in Milwaukee that will both be close ……
by cubs north on Apr 10, 2009 8:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen was fine...Cept for Gregg
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it wasn't right the first two times you said it
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 10, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree we disagree
I look at results….
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what about Derrek Lee?
He looked pretty terrible this game. I hope he doesn’t continue with his second half last year where he was hitting for no power.
by jeff_pico on Apr 10, 2009 8:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He simply should not be hitting 3rd in this lineup.
He should be hitting 6th or 7th, and then it’s not a big deal. But, Lee in the 3rd spot is an obvious mistake (I think everyone knows this, including Lou).
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Jeebus Christmas on a Crutch
FOUR FREAKING GAMES!
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give me a break.
And last season. I’m a Lee fan, just not in the 3-hole. I’m not freaking out. I repeat, give me a break.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...
No substantiative changes until a month in.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this a rule?
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More of a common sense guideline
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 10, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee is a lock
I don’t think there is any doubt Lee isn’t going anywhere in the lineup barring injury but I didn’t like what I saw today thats all I’m saying.
by jeff_pico on Apr 10, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
add him to the list of things we didn't like about today
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 10, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Lee's performance in these first 4 games
is pretty much what we saw out of him the second half of last season. He’s lost a lot of bat speed, and as Len/Bob pointed out, the majority of his batted balls are now grounders. (according to the stats they quoted)
I’m very concerned about Lee in the 3-hole. He’s now a DP machine.
You could argue he’s never been the same since the wrist injury in Los Angeles.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 10, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would argue that common sense tells us that Lee should be moved
down in the lineup, and that the only thing keeping him in the 3-hole is respect. Fair enough, but it’s a mistake.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still trying to find the website............
………..that would verify my contention, but after watching a lot of baseball, I’m convinced DLee strikes out “looking” more than any other player in the game.
It happened again today and it’s happened A LOT during his Cubs tenure.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
by tville on Apr 10, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DFA him...
And gripe all summmer about why we don’t have Texeria
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First,
Vizcaino did not throw well; he threw junk and got lucky. Hanging 80 mph sliders. Yuck. Second, I don’t understand why Miles pinch hit in that situation; however, if he is going to pinch hit, then I would’ve liked a squeeze. That was a huge, huge run we left out there.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and someone else has done the work
proving that Vizcaino through junk.
see here: http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/4/10/830306/looking-up-hardens-velocity-and
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
threw, of course.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vizcaino was lucky
he should have been pounded. He will be, very soon.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 10, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have some faith
Everyone here is always so down. It would be great of he was terrific.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't give up any runs/the lead...
that said…I have no confidence in him….either
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
squeeze by Miles is the absolute right call. Even if he fails and Fontenot is thrown out at home,
we have runners at first & second for Soriano. Chances are he (Miles) makes one out, not a DP.
Calling a squeeze would have limited the risk of major failure in that situation. If you are going to lose Marmol and have to use up even more of your bullpen, why not make sure that you got at least a run out of that situation (or at least gave yourself TWO CHANCES at executing)? The DP was the one result we had to stay out of.
Everyone has a bad night. I agree with Al that it just seemed like Lou was off last night.
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
by LAcarl519 on Apr 11, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't want to start the soriano bashing...
but he should have had that double off of weeks
"Without spikes, psychologically it plays havoc with the other team, when they realize I don't even wear a uniform--they don't know what to expect." Bill Murray
by billmurrayforowner on Apr 10, 2009 8:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The ball took off on him.
I don’t think he really had any chance at it, especially with the goofy shadows.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al Yellon on Apr 10, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been impressed with Soriano so far this year.
I wonder why he wasn’t playing a bit deeper, but that was a lazer.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why was Lou shuffling people in and out so quick?
Oh Baby!
by cubswgnrocks on Apr 10, 2009 8:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Senior moments?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al Yellon on Apr 10, 2009 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
saving them for the rest of the series?
Doing his best Ozzie Guillen impression?
It was way overkill esp with Cotts and Marshall one batter each.
by jeff_pico on Apr 10, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My love for Lou is strong
but I think you are right, Al, he truly does have these odd senior moments.
Ryan. Theriot. Sucks.
by Emelie on Apr 10, 2009 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
First off, I do agree that he really screwed the pooch with the pen today. That said, I guess maybe he’s trying to use matchups more this year, and that’s why he pulled Heilman when Counsell came up. With the top of the order coming up, I’d rather not have Cotts in there, so that might’ve been his rationale in bringing in Marmol. He’s talked about lessening Marmol’s workload, so that explains the next switch, and considering the score, he went to Marshall for a “matchup”. You can’t leave Marshall in there in that situation against the middle of the lineup, so that was final one.
I mean … it looks bad, but there probably was some thought behind each move. That said … my problems were (with pen mgm’t)
a) It’s Craig Counsell. Let’s repeat … Craig Counsell. Why not let Heilman face him, save Cotts?
b) Marmol is effective against lefties. If he really wanted to pull Heilman, why not let Marmol try to finish the inning and save Cotts for Fielder?
c) Okay, let’s say the 7th inning happened that way. While Gregg worked, I’m just a bit curious as to why he felt a need to bring in Gregg? Granted, that wouldn’t have “saved” an arm, but it was sort of … huh?
Anyhow, it’s one game. He (Lou) is still tinkering, still feeling out this club. I would hope a month from now, we wouldn’t see such crazy pen mgm’t.
by toonsterwu on Apr 10, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leave "Match Game" to Charles Nelson Reilly
c’mon, you guys, that’s funny!
by CaliCub on Apr 10, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lessening Marmol's workload is fine
but this is the kind of game Marmol belongs in.
Not what he did last spring when he kept bringing in Marmol with a 10 run lead.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 10, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse my ignorance
But what’s a LOOGY?
"Earthly fame is naught but a breath of wind, which now comes hence and now comes thence, changing its name because it changes quarter." -- Dante, Purgatorio, Canto XI
by sweetswinger on Apr 10, 2009 8:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, Cali!
"Earthly fame is naught but a breath of wind, which now comes hence and now comes thence, changing its name because it changes quarter." -- Dante, Purgatorio, Canto XI
by sweetswinger on Apr 10, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou out-thought himself in this game.
His use of the bullpen was downright odd and, ultimately, ineffective. Ken Macha was correct to leave Counsell in to face Cotts, who really isn’t very adept at getting out left-handers. As soon as Cotts hit Counsell, the bullpen mess had just begun.
The unexamined blog is not worth reading.
by neonverse1 on Apr 10, 2009 8:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't stand Counsell.
He seems to do something every day that hurts us.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al Yellon on Apr 10, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems that way, doesn't it?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Apr 10, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i also hate him. he kills us.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't he the guy Wood plunked last year on Opening Day?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Apr 10, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very well could be
He always seems to be in the middle of stuff like that
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 10, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Little Yaz"
what with holding the bat high over his head…
by CaliCub on Apr 10, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen
But the bottom line is that it wasn’t this bullpen management that lost the game. Gregg is the closer and Gregg was coming in during the 9th. This is when the Cubs lost the game. If Gregg pitches as he’s supposed to, the Cubs win. Everyone wants to complain about bullpen management but the fact is that even if the previous innings had been done with different pitchers, Gregg was pitching the 9th. Could it have been different batters? Sure… but this so called odd bullpen management got the team to the 9th without giving up a run.
Again, also don’t lose site of the fact that the Cubs should have been up big
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this
Everything works out if Gregg just does his jobs and pitches a scoreless 9th. Lou would have looked crazy but it would have worked, instead he looks crazy and it doesn’t work so we all have reason to b*tch.
by jeff_pico on Apr 10, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but Gregg was called on in the eight inning.
If Lou’s previous bullpen choices had worked out well, then Gregg would have come in to work the ninth inning only. I’m sure that having to get four outs, instead of three, affected Gregg.
The unexamined blog is not worth reading.
by neonverse1 on Apr 10, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 8th inning, I meant to say.
The unexamined blog is not worth reading.
by neonverse1 on Apr 10, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how many pitches did Gregg pitch in the 8th?
not really sure but it had to be less than 6? Is it really that much of a mental problem for a pitcher to get 4 outs instead of 3?
by jeff_pico on Apr 10, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 pitch strike out to end the 8th
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 10, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, it shouldn't have mattered that much.
I’m just not too sure yet how Gregg operates. Besides, his walk totals from last year with the Marlins are very alarming. If he comes in to a “clean” inning in the 9th, then maybe things would’ve worked out better for the Cubs. Can’t rewind the tape of life, though!
The unexamined blog is not worth reading.
by neonverse1 on Apr 10, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't/wwon't matter....
Gregg is closer material like Hawkins or Brian McRae’s “buddy”
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
should have been up big
but when you only give up 2 earned runs, you should be able to win with 3.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 10, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chin up, everyone
last year after 4 games we were 1-3, outscored 19-14 in those games, and then went on to win 5 in a row. This won’t be the last defeat we snatch from the jaws of victory this year. We’ll have our share of games we should lose but emerge victorious. The problem was we let the Brewers hang around when we had the chance to put it away. You don’t give up that many walks and win.
We take the next two, we forget about today.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Apr 10, 2009 8:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
works for me
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 10, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gregg
cant seem to throw his breaking ball for a strike. thats going to a be a huge problem if it continues.
by TJ3117 on Apr 10, 2009 9:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
BINGO...
he never could….CLOSER will be a serious ssore spot for the Cubs this year
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so many complaints, so little time....
“when Theriot threw away an easy ground ball to lead off the game by Weeks, which led to an unearned run. Maybe we’re talking about a victory tonight if Theriot makes that play.”
How about Lee? He watched it sail through his glove and if it was such a bad throw why didn’t he leave the bag to prevent the ball from making the dugout? The “maybe” game hits a lot of people today, but I wouldn’t put Theriot at the top.
As I said in the game thread, in a 3-2 game in the top of the 8th more runs don’t matter. Only outs. Maximize your team’s ability to get those six outs. Lou failed miserably at that today.
That said, I have a procedural question: Does the pitcher have to go to the dugout between innings? Yes, I’ve tried google but maybe I wasn’t framing the question correctly. My point is, asking Gregg to end the 8th, sit, then come out and throw a sharp 9th didn’t seem prudent at the time. Could he have just jogged to the ‘pen and tossed for a while to stay loose since his spot in the order wasn’t imminent? I’m guessing not, but I don’t know the rule.
Anyhows, a colossal FAIL. Threw a game away, I don’t care if it’s April or September, winners don’t throw away games, they close them out.
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on Apr 10, 2009 9:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Lee is that tall and nobody is that quick.
It was simply a very bad throw. I blame the player who threw the ball.
As to your question, I think a pitcher is allowed a set number of warmup tosses between innings. There’s no point in tiring him up with a bullpen session between innings. Yes, some pitchers’ arms get cold sitting in the dugout and that’s why managers hate bringing their closer intio the game in the 8th inning.
by Fraggin Judge on Apr 10, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just for clarification
I’m not saying the player who threw the ball isn’t to blame on that play. Theriot deserved an E. However, to claim that maybe we’d be talking about a victory based on that…considering that Lee didn’t catch it, Hill didn’t back it up, and that it happened to go into the dugout rather than bounce off the fence……..in the face of the colossal late inning failures is, with all due respect, a bunch of malarkey.
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on Apr 10, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Lee could drive in a few runs???
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Today's goats: Lou, Theriot and Gregg
We could add more players to the list, like Marshall and Cotts, but in the end, Al hit the nail on the head. Why weren’t the bases loaded intentionally in the 9th inning to force a DP without having to tag the runner? Now, I agree with Al that the DP was not going to be made so the correct approach by Theriot was to throw home, as he did. But he could have settled himself before throwing. He had time. Instead, he didn’t set his feet properly, short-hopped the throw and the rest is history.
Anyway, those are details, costly but not as significant as the fact that Mr. Gregg cannot get this team to the promised land issuing so many walks. And Cotts and Marshall have to step up. Funny, didn’t we all say that last year too? Last season, our closer got into the habit of allowing the long ball or hitting batters in the 9th inning. This season, our new closer can achieve the same frustrating result by issuing walks. Granted, he’s done it only once so far, but considering his history with the Marlins, Gregg didn’t wait, didn’t he?
I just hope Gregg can get his act together and Lou stops cursing for one moment and try to consult his coaches more often. And if they didn’t tell him to load the bases in the ninth then, perhaps they shouldn’t be there either. (I’m pretty confident someone must’ve mentioned the correct strategy.) So, Al, good recap. Let’s just win this series.
by Fraggin Judge on Apr 10, 2009 9:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Relax on Theriot
His fielding will only lose you about 2 games. Tonight was one of them. If the Cubs win this game, you wouldn’t be complaining.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep...and it won't win you any
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His offense could
They guy scored 85 runs last year.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good answer....
How many times ddidd Miles cross the plate last year?
DeRo?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mile scrored 49
DeRo scored 103. He’s no better than DeRo, especially when you consider defense. But with his 300+ average, you need to get over his defense. Seriously, he’s fielding percentage was 97.5% lat year. That’s not that bad.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 11, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it.
Two walks, a double and a wild pitch by your so-called closer, yet it’s Theriot, who is just a hair late on a six-hopper, that cost you the game?
by c60 on Apr 11, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't all him
I’m defending him just as you are. His last inning play wasn’t that bad, he was running away from second, and the first inning wasn’t his fault either, because Derrek didn’t even need to jump. He didn’t cost the Cubs the game, it was the pitchers walks that did it.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 11, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frag...
How many runs did Cotts and Marshall allow?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you for real?
Cotts and Marshall came in and both allowed the one batter they faced to reach base. You call this a success? That certainly is your implication. If you think that these two and Vizcaino pitched well yesterday then please send me the specs on whatever TV you were watching on because clearly it shows a different game than most of us watched.
by dmlichte on Apr 11, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hope the bullpen isn't as bad as
The Mets last season. Watching Mets-Marlins, and the Marlins broadcast team brought up that in 2008, the Mets had 9 walk off losses. 4 games into the season, the Cubs are up to 2 already! Biggest concern I had about this team going into the season was the bullpen
by PhillyCub on Apr 10, 2009 9:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm back from vacation and better than ever!
Some observations from the week:
-Lee is slumping, horribly, and it’s just not his BA either (cough Bradley cough), but if it weren’t the beginning of the season, we wouldn’t be discussing this
-Fukudome has hushed some of his critics for now
-Gregg isn’t doing awful as a closer, ie. look at Wood in his first appearance last year against the Brewers. I’ll give him another month
-Soriano and Ramirez are poised to have monster seasons
And here is a suggestion: If Gregg falters, would you consider making Shark the closer??
#34: You'll be missed!
by Chanman25 on Apr 10, 2009 9:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Shark
He isn’t exactly lighting it up in Iowa yet so no I wouldn’t put him as the closer until he proves he can throw strikes again also.
by jeff_pico on Apr 10, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't really last year either
He ended his stint in the minors with a 4.29 ERA.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In his defense...
… Samardzija has only pitched in one game this season at AAA.

"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Apr 11, 2009 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I with agree with you on giving Gregg more time...
…but only because apparently the Cubs have no other options but to give him more time. He’s a guy with control issues, that’s not good for a closer, and apparently Marmol isn’t who we thought he was or perhaps the Cubs new all along that he wasn’t going to close? I can’t help but get pissed for a second again tat we made a frickin’ effort to dump a guy that was doing his job and then chased after inferior replacement. That was a stupid move then and it is now. Hopefully Gregg can throw strikes on a more consistent basis and I’ll give him that time.
I agree with you assessment of Lee and I’d go a step farther and say it’s a continuation of last season’s season long slump. However, Lee does warrant at least some warmer weather to get it going, although Houston is no Siberia.
If Dome & Bradley hit then we should ge enough offense, because I have no doubt about Soriano and Aramis, but you still can’t have you 1B man hitting .200. It’s one of the premier offensive positions in the game and I sure hope Lee gets it going. he’s a good person he’s been a great Cub let’s hope he’s not done.
by DudeVf11 on Apr 10, 2009 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap - no mention of Theriot in the blame for this game?
He was TERRIBLE in the field today. One throwing error and two terrible mental ones, including not going for the double play at the end of the game. He was playing at double play depth, how could he forgot to freaking go for the double play. The worst part is that if Lou benches him his backup is Aaron Freaking Miles
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
by berselius on Apr 10, 2009 9:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoops. reading comprehension
You did acknowledge the throwing error in the first. Still though, a terrible game defensively by Theriot.
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
by berselius on Apr 10, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said...
… I don’t think he could have completed the DP; his momentum was taking him AWAY from 2B, and Braun runs well. His only play was home.
Agreed on not having a suitable backup. I don’t know what the answer is to that other than to not have 12 pitchers.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al Yellon on Apr 11, 2009 4:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even the play
at 2nd would have been close, Hart looked to be very close to 2nd when Theriot caught the ball.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Apr 11, 2009 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His defense.............
……….will continue to haunt this team.
While he was moving away from 2B on the play, I think that’s a play most MLB middle infields make.
And with his rag arm, was he really going to gun down Weeks anyway?
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
by tville on Apr 10, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of mistakes made by Lou
How is it that Miles and not Hoffpauir was the pinch hitter in the 8th inning? Why the hell else is he on the team? Hoff can at least hit the ball out of the infield
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
by berselius on Apr 10, 2009 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
again...
… we’ve been through this and I’ll do it again, but why is Miles such a bad choice? He’s a major league veteran who was signed to play a major role on this team. Hoffpauir is a 28 year old rookie with 75 major league at bats. I am not saying “don’t use Hoffpauir” but to imply that it clearly should have been Hoffpauir is just not correct. There are reasonable arguments for using either of these two. Its just as likely that Hoffpauir strikes out (something he’s done in almost 1/3 of his major league at bats) and Soriano K’s or flies out to end the inning.
As I also said in my previous post on this matter; my frustration today is that, IMO, Lou pulled strings to put his team in position to win. At nearly every turn, the players did their level best to not perform. At so many steps along the way the freaking players could have done their jobs. Miles could have gotten a sac fly to score the insurance run… he didn’t. Cotts could have NOT hit the one batter he was called in to face. Marshall could have NOT walked the one batter he was called in to face. Theriot could have attempted to make contact on what was likely a missed hit and run when Fontenot was caught stealing. Cub batters could have scores several more runs against a pitcher who clearly had nothing today. I get why people are questioning Lou, thats how the game works, but at every step along the way Cub players (for the most part) did not get the job done and perhaps it comes down on Lou since it was a close game and so many players just failed today. I guess I saw today as a day that Lou tried to dance around the mistakes and missed opportunities that his players threw at him but in the end he got burned.
On a positive, the Cubs could easily be 4-0 and the upside of that is that that means that this is a good team and is going to win a lot of games. We can be frustrated now because the team is only .500, but after just hearing the Sox give up seven runs in the seventh inning, allowing the first nine batters in the inning to reach, I’ll take what we’ve got on the North Side.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a big Hoffpauir fan
But if that wasn’t the situation you use him in, what is?
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
by berselius on Apr 10, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoffpauir
When you need someone to hit a 3 run HR. Again, Hoffpauir was a fine choice for that situation, but I don’t think he was any better of a choice than Miles. I see Miles as someone who is more likely to make contact and get the ball in play. Unfortunately today that meant a DP. Hoffpauir was just a “different choice” and I don’t have a problem if Hoffpauir was used over Piniella… I probably would have gone with Miles with the game so close and the Cubs needing contact to get that insurance run.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is a 3 run homer bad?
That would have put the game away.
It makes much more sense for Hoffpauir come in and swing for the fences. A flyball to the outfield scores that run as surely as ‘putting the ball in play’, which Miles can certainly do. However, you’re not likely to get a inning ending double play from a fly ball, and even if Hoffpauir struck out you’d still have Soriano coming to bat. Simply ‘putting the ball in play’ puts you at a greater risk of the inning killing double play,
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
by berselius on Apr 10, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
c'mon
Do you think I was saying that a 3 run HR is bad?
Again, I think its reasonable to suggest that you would have chosen Hoffpauir over Miles, but what I find unreasonable to suggest is that Miles is such a bad choice. Just because Hoffpauir is more likely to hit a HR than Miles doesn’t mean that he’s not as likely to hit into that same DP or strike out. It also doesn’t mean that Miles is unable to hit the sac fly that was necessary. I like Hoffpauir, I really do. I think he’s got some real potential, but I think people are putting him on this pedestal that he doesn’t necessarily deserve at this point.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is
That Micah Hoffpauir is more likely to hit the ball out of the infield. I’m not saying that Miles can’t do it, but you’d have to think that Hoffpauir is more likely to get the sac fly.
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
by berselius on Apr 10, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna move on
You feel that using Miles was an egregious error. I think it was reasonable to use either Miles or Hoffpauir. So be it.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good post
but I still prefer Hoff there — propensity to hit the ball hard. His lack of major league at bats is not related to his ability to hit — it is related to his ability to play a position and being on a club where he has no spot to claim — rakers like him make it earlier in the AL.
by SETX Cub on Apr 10, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, regarding Miles's role on this team
Miles role is to back up the infielders, not to be the first pinch hitter off the bench in an RBI situation. The only reason to bring him out in that situation would be if they were running the squeeze play, since Miles can presumably bunt better than Hoffpauir.
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
by berselius on Apr 10, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles
Miles role is to back up the infielders, not to be the first pinch hitter off the bench in an RBI situation. The only reason to bring him out in that situation would be if they were running the squeeze play, since Miles can presumably bunt better than Hoffpauir.
Based on what? Miles signed with the Cubs to compete for the 2B job. He didn’t win it, but he is expected to get some real starting time anyway and to play a major role off of the bench. I think if you proposed your assertion to Hendry and Piniella, they’d both disagree with you.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you kidding?
Of course he’s playing a major role off the bench – he’s backing up 3B/SS/2B. That has much, much more to do with his glove than his bat.
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
by berselius on Apr 10, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you trade DeRoas for him?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that that happpened...
But…he’s another big downgrade on the team…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoff is more of a fly ball type of guy
All they needed was a fly ball to score a run.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Insights -- Gotta fix 3rd spot
1. D-Lee is not a #3 hitter and has not been since his injury. Just swap him and Aramiz or put Fontenot there. Anyone but him.
2. I disagree with Miles v. Hoff wash theory. 1 out, runner on 3rd — just need to get him home. I would prefer someone who has pop and is hot. And, I am sure someone else could tell us, but Hoff probably has better fly ball %. Miles puzzled me there.
3. Marmol will outperform Gregg all year. Gregg did not lead the league in Blown saves for a reason. Sux to have downgraded at a position so substantially.
by SETX Cub on Apr 10, 2009 9:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Unfortunately, Lou has made it abundantly clear that moving Lee down n the order isn’t an option.
The 3hole is reserved for the team’s best hitter. Sadly, this is no longer Lee.
IMO though, the only thing that MIGHT force a move like that would be if the Cubs went into a protracted offensive funk, Hopefully, it won’t come to that.
Gregg, on the other hand, will not last long in the closer spot if he has a few more outings like today.
If I were Marmol, I’d start getting ready to take the ball in the 9th inning.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 10, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg
the thing is that if Marmol becomes the closer then who puts out the fires that Marmol has been? I think whats been overlooked is the big situations that Marmol has come in thus far this year. He’s gotten the Cubs out of a few really tough situations. Can anyone honestly say that if Marmol’s and Gregg’s roles were reversed that the Cubs would be any better off than they are now? I think its entirely possible that the Cubs lose games earlier because they have to save Marmol for the 9th instead of using him against the opponent’s toughest batters or in the toughest situations.
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
marmol's in the right spot.
i’m not sold on gregg as closer, though we really don’t have many good options.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Apr 10, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're both probably right
If Gregg does struggle, we’re not in a good position no matter what we do (or don’t do).
I don’t want to see Gregg setting up any more than you do. At the same time though, there’s no way Lou is going to stick with a closer who who can’t hold 9th inning leads.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 10, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly....
I diddn’t wasnt to see Gregg at all….cept on the mound somewwhere pitching against us.
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Cubs hitters continue to produce the way they do, which obviously it shouldn't be (Lee will get better of course)
I wouldn’t mind seeing
Soriano LF
Fukudome CF
Ramirez 3B
Bradley RF
Lee 1b
Fontenot 2b
Soto C
Theriot SS
#34: You'll be missed!
by Chanman25 on Apr 10, 2009 10:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I would swap Lee and Soto in your lineup
by cubsnlinux on Apr 10, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee will start producing
but he reminds me of a Mark DeRosa type hitter of last season. A 20 HR, .280 line
#34: You'll be missed!
by Chanman25 on Apr 10, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They didn't deserve to win
simply because they should’ve taken advantage of Loopers horrendous pitching. They should’ve been teeing off on him, my god he’s no C.C. or Sheets. Not scoring insurance runs with several different chances hurt them. They played like they were waiting to get beat. Go get em tomorrow with El Toro.
Someday we'll go all the way.
by Cubbinstrongsince86 on Apr 10, 2009 10:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They should've won this game
They had so many opportunities. They held the Brewers to 4 hits, which is just as many as they scored. Those walks really hurt them.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
History repeats.....
Hendry continues his tread of getting hitters who can’t hit in the clutch…
And Closers who :can’t close…
OK…maybe it all isn’t on Hendry…BUT LaTroy and Who was the guy from Montreal who blew a few saves right out the box and was never the same??
Gregg is a LOSER…I watched him enogh last year to know the Marlins KNOW they are better off without him…see above….
Cubs are 0-2 in 1 run games….DISTURBING….THESE are the kind of games neeeded to win during the playoffs to advance…
Out hit the Brewers 9-4 bot not outscore…Hendry offense in action again….the 16/9 LOB on 3 runs is “CHOKE CITY”….What’s kinder "0-3 Lee …even though he was 0-4…or 6-4-3 Lee?….looks like the solo home run syndrom has struck the team…
The opposition scored “100% of their hits” - 4 hits 4 runs …(yes I know it didn’t play out that way)
The Cubs as usual WASTE opportunities…(9 hits and 3 runs come out to a 33% clip)…
This ought to get all the small sample size members screaming…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Mel Rojas
I believe he was a part of the Cubs Can ’O Worms….
here’s a thought…. What about having Guzman as the closer? He certainly has the stuff (again, it is only a thought)…. that way Marmol can be the fireman.
*Or we can take the deal meant for Peavy and trade for Joe Nathan.
by FloridaCubsFan on Apr 10, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Twins
Will probably be competing. You need to take a closer from a team that won’t be competing. How about George Sherrill?
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sherrill
is filthy…
Yeah Nathan is a pipe dream and I doubt what we’d offer for Peavy would land Nathan
by FloridaCubsFan on Apr 10, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have an intriguing point above.
If Gregg really does flop — and you need to see more than one game to decide that — I’d think about throwing Guzman in there.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al Yellon on Apr 11, 2009 4:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Ascaino or Shark
I know Shark hasn’t done too well, but he didn’t exactly tear it up last year and look how good he ended up being.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 11, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU.....
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUY NOW...CHEAP...
Try Guzman….he can’t be any worse than…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Apr 10, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He Who Must Not Be Named
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guzman
forget I suggested him :-)
by FloridaCubsFan on Apr 11, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was disturbed
that Bradley went after a 3-0 count and runners on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs. A walk loads them up with Ramirez at the plate.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Apr 10, 2009 10:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
quite a bit of that today
Cubs were ahead in the count early and often. Looper would have walked them until the cows came home but several Cub batters let him off the hook by hitting weak outs on pitches where they were 3-0, 3-1
by dmlichte on Apr 10, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think
Kerry Wood is out there laughing hysterically?
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like last years game in Philly
I was spared watching the game as I was in flight ( I got the 3-2 score when I took off did not get the final till many hours later ) and I am just getting the gory details but it sounds a lot like the game I went to in Philly last year which turned me against Lou ( first or second weekend of the season) . Insane overmanaging of bullpen and bench. The one in Philly had a happy ending but only because of Phillies error in the 10th. I have faith in my theory from last season that the Cubs are good enough to win DESPITE Lou. Alas Gregg is likely to end up in the dog house translating into Marmol’s arm falling off.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 10, 2009 11:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just a bad day
and probably a game they should have won. Theriot’s defense, lack of timely hitting, questionable game management, and another less than stellar outing by Gregg combined to give them the loss. They will lose more games like this before the season is over, but they will probably win even more of them. I don’t know what they saw in Gregg, I thought it was a bad move, but I hope he proves me wrong and gets it together. I thought they should have loaded the bases in the 9th too; walk Braun and you have a force at any base. I was eating dinner with my wife, youngest son and my Mom at a restaurant that had the game on when they blew the lead. My wife got pissed at me because I guess I wasn’t very good company for the remainder of the meal after the game ended. Oh well, tomorrow is a new day. I think Z will have a good outing and hopefully we can score some runs.
by qccub on Apr 11, 2009 1:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just in case anyone's wondering
Marmol should be our closer, Gregg is a stiff that was jettisoned by Florida. Why are we wasting our time with him? He’s got nothing!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Apr 11, 2009 2:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Marmols the closer
The game wouldn’t have gotten to the ninth. The Brewers would already have the lead, because the Cubs would have nobody to get them out of jams, which they were in several of today.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 11, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
precisely
Not saying that Marmol should not be closer but if he is then who is getting out of the tough jams in the 7th and 8th?
by dmlichte on Apr 11, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a new idea
attempt to have Samardzija as closer! He’ll be like our Papelbon. You could use the Jaws theme song whenever he entered into the game. It’s brilliant!
#34: You'll be missed!
by Chanman25 on Apr 11, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm fine with that...
… but the fact is that right now he’s all out of sorts. My guess is that this is due to him wanting to come in and be a starter, losing that battle early but spending much of spring training in a starter routine. If this were to happen they’d need to acclimate him to a new routine in Iowa and it may take him a little while to readjust back to the relief role. IMO his poor spring as well as his rough first start at Iowa is due to the total uncertainty of his role.
by dmlichte on Apr 11, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the great thing about baseball.
OK, yesterday was a loss. We can dissect it six ways to Sunday (or Saturday as the case may be), but we get another shot today. We don’t have to wait days or even a week to see the Cubs wipe away yesterday’s disappointment with today’s win. So let’s chalk up Friday’s game as just one of those days and let’s get ’em today.
Getting pumped for Monday’s home opener! Rain or no rain, it’ll be a great day. Beats working!
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Apr 11, 2009 6:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not very impressed with Kevin Gregg so far.
Also, I feel the Cubs lost this game in the 8th, when they failed to score Fontenot after a lead-off double.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Apr 11, 2009 9:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+10
agree 100%. Lou was out-managed when he pulls Marmol and he does not make Miles bunt. Worse case, we have one out (if Miles fails in the suicide squeeze) and Soriano comes up next. Instead we get the worst possible result.
As in golf, you have to play FIRST to avoid the worst possible outcome, and from there, plan your attack. I think Lou often forgets this basic idea—thus the Cubs seem to often have many rally killing DPs at just the wrong time.
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
by LAcarl519 on Apr 11, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles over Hoffpauir...
100% inexcusable, unjustifiable decision.
by kanderber on Apr 11, 2009 9:32 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
the comments this a.m.
…are cracking me up. Thanks for a few laughs.
Enough blame to go around for yesterday to choke a herd of horses. Let’s get a victory at Wrigley North tonight and put our past in our behinds.
Also, Go Blackhawks vs. the Evil Empire!
by thermal54 on Apr 11, 2009 9:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Theriot
putting the riot’s defensive miscues aside, I wonder why we haven’t seen him moved up in the lineup to the 2-hole like he was for much of last year. His value offensively is his high OBP and it seems like a huge waste to have him buried down at the bottom of the order, rather than setting the table for the middle of our order. I know lou likes the R-L-R combo with fukudome up there but it would be nice to have someone on base for gameboard and aramis rather than these solo-shots.
by wewantwood on Apr 11, 2009 10:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
This loss is all on Theriot. I was hoping this chink in the Cubs’ armor wouldn’t be exposed so early. This guy simply isn’t a major league shortstop. He’s a second baseman. He’s got no range and no arm. He had no business throwing home in the ninth.
Why no mention of that first unearned run he allowed because of his poor throw to Lee?
by salparadise23 on Apr 11, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
pen
its only 4 games but i think this bullpen will cost us many games down the road.how long before lou flip flops marmol and gregg?
by NOMAR on Apr 11, 2009 11:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As much as we are all down on the exposed weaknesses of last night,
the Cubs do appear to have a legitimate #4 starter and Bradley finally got a hit. Assuming Soto comes back with his shoulder well rested, this team should have a terrific offense.
Let’s hope Z can get us off to a good start tonight and get us in a position where tomorrow night is a “rubber game” for this series.
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
by LAcarl519 on Apr 11, 2009 1:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought
it was bush league for Piniella to blame Hill for calling a slider at 3-2 on Duffy…Piniella should be calling the pitches, or Gregg should know to shake him off in that situation…
He is a kid, and hasn’t been in a lot of late-game situations like that. To make him the scapegoat was bull.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Apr 11, 2009 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Piniella should be calling the pitches.."
That is as bush league a statement as Piniella blaming Hill for calling that slider.
I agree that Gregg should have shook him off.
by cubsnlinux on Apr 11, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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