Cubs Need Bullpen Help
by cubbiefan07 on Apr 10, 2009 9:21 PM CDT
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PrintSome thoughts after a frustrating game:
Tell me what you think, especially about the first two bullets.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Please Tell me..
who you think will be available before the trade deadline that the Cubs could trade for.
Huston Street
possibly, depending on the Rocks stats at the time, Valverde might be available (though the Cubs are an unlikely trading partner, of course).
Maybe its Samardzija’s destiny to be the closer someday?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
search your feelings you know them to be true!
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on Apr 10, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Mike Wuertz
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
My take...
1. Please suggest a ‘lights-out’ closer that’s on the market.
2. Please suggest ‘solid’ relief available.
3. Possibly, but see below.
4. Well, he’s seeing more pitches than every other Cub (2 in the NL?) and showing great discipline.
5. Didn’t do that poorly? 10 K’s, 6 IP and 1 ER? That’s called good, if not quite good.
6. See below.
7. No comment, as I’m not a huge Lou fan anyway.
And for 1-6 combined…IT’S 4 GAMES INTO THE SEASON. 4 GAMES! !
Free Ronny Cedeno
exactly
better to play mad scientist with the players in positions early in the season, instead of during the October playoff chase
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
4 games, dude, 4 games....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Apr 10, 2009 9:54 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
totally agree
4 games into the season. the first run was on an error. and if soriano could have caught that ball in the ninth, things may have gone better.
harden was great today, no doubt about that, not just okay. fantastic outing for him.
give the ’pen a few more days to get it going. my only expectation is that marmol will be the closer after one or two more blown saves.
It's not about money. It's about winning and getting over the hump. We've had the appetizer now, but we left the main course on the table.
-rod beck
by laidbackliam on Apr 11, 2009 4:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Wait a minute.
First you say it’s only 4 games into the season, which should calm everyone down, then you say you expect Marmol to close after one or two more blown saves?
Not everyone can be a perfect closer like Brad Lidge was last year. Most closers blow a few, some in spectacular fashion. Yesterday’s game reminded me of this one last year in St. Louis.
I wasn’t in favor of the Gregg acquisition, but he did save 61 games the last two years. I’m willing to give him more than a couple of blown saves before I give up on this idea.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I remember that Card game
I was out of town in Cooperstown. I also completely agree with you, because a lot of people are forgetting that Kerry Wood didn’t have the greatest start last year.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 11, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
and Dempster blew some as well when he was closing
even Lee Smith, Trevor Hoffman, and Bruce Suter blew saves. It comes with the job.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
when do you give up on him though?
Lou knows he has another option in Marmol. so how long do you think we let gregg keep closing it out for? I do think Gregg will be adequate but you cant keep gregg in that position if he keeps failing. Those walks are killer. I can manage a few more screw ups before i approach the ledge like some others but if he keeps this up for another week or two than you have to pull the plug.
The thing about Gregg is that his high BB rate makes him even worse as a setup man.
Gregg’s in the right role now that we have him.
Derrek Lee is good.
Thank god your not an Indians fan
You might have suicide watch on you.
Maybe the Mets would part with K-Rod??????
Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.
by Bricks and Ivy on Apr 10, 2009 10:25 PM CDT reply actions
or the Phillies with Lidge
or Red Sox with Papelbon.
Both teams are out of it at 1-3. (Red Sox are losing to the Angels as I type this)
Good Lord, the Cubs are good. Let them play it out. The Cubs will lose at minimum 60 games this year. I guarantee it. It’s part of the game.
And for the record, the Phillies and Red Sox are good, too. Lidge and Papelbon aren’t going anywhere.
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
Keep Lee where he is
I admit, I’m a little worried about him. But if you drop him, that could drop his confidence knowing that Lou doesn’t have confidence in him. Keep in in the 3 hole. Gregg also NEEDS to be the closer of this team. If he’s not, there will be nobody in the pen to get the Cubs out of late inning jams. Gregg must step it up for this team to be successful.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:35 PM CDT reply actions
In other news....
The sun rises in the East.
Of course they need bullpen help, but this is what happens when your offseason M.O. is to blindly chase after two specific players
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
You posted them
under the assumption it would spark debate, so don’t get defensive when you get called for posting something silly.
1, 2, aren’t realistic
3 is correct although your solution in 6 is again, unrealistic.
4 is unrealistic. he hit his pitches and took his bases, what’d you want him to do?
5 6 IP, 10K, 1ER, 3 H not good enough for you?
7 you nailed that one
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on Apr 10, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend, we could cut ties of all the lies that you've been living in
Funny how loneliness sounds so good, until you hear the echoes of your soul burning a hole in your shirt. -DJM
And if you do not want to see me again
I would understand
"May the sun never set on American baseball." ~Harry Truman
Wrenching this away from the main topic to address one of the points..
… there are absolutely no complaints from me about Milton Bradley. Sure, he’s just got the one hit (the HR), but he’s drawn five walks in four games for a .389 OBP, and has played solid defense (the dropped sinking liner wasn’t his fault, that was a tough play).
Once Bradley gets going, the middle of the lineup will be formidable.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al Yellon on Apr 11, 2009 4:16 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
and i'm sure we get
a ‘lights out’ closer
without losing castro, vitters, or jay jackson.
when you go for the quick fix, sometimes you get burned.
Relax...
Gregg blew a save. It happens. He may have issues being a four-out closer.
The bench depth really hurt today. Miles hitting into a double-play was really rotten in that situation. It happens.
No one goes 161-1, gang.
Lee is not batting 7th. He may end up 4th or even 5th before the season is over, but not 7th. Get that idea out of your head.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I agree with you, blown saves happen.
I’m not sure I mind a 4-out save, either; the first out was a 3-pitch K, and that set him up for what should have been an ideal situation, a last of the 9th lead with the bases empty.
The walk began his undoing. Successful closers simply cannot walk people, especially Chris Duffy, who has a lifetime OBA of .328.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
At least the closer usually starts the game with the bases cleared.
See, I don’t want a high BB-rate pitcher in either role, but if I have to have one, I’d rather him be the closer than the guy who comes in to tight situations and shuts things down.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on Apr 12, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not a good record on starting a second inning
So far, we’ve had Heilman, Cotts, and Gregg all have control problems after sitting in the dugout and coming back out. Now, it shouldn’t be the cold, as they’ve been in Houston and indoors, but they weren’t being used this way at the end of spring training. It was an inning and done. I’d prefer to see a fresh pitcher to start the inning, if possible.
And, following up on what others have said, given limited data so far I’d say Samardzija will be replacing Vizcaino in the bullpen in early May.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Cubs need bullpen help
Uh, so does about 30 other teams.
This bullpen will not even look the same by August, goodness I could be throwing the 7th inning by then.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Is this your first baseball season?
If a player goes 1 for 12 with 5 walks in the middle of the season, no one will say anything. Bradley will be fine as long as he stays healthy.
“Harden didn’t do that poorly?” What does he have to do for you to consider it a good outing?
yeah, he retired all 27 hitters,
but three of the balls were hit hard.
send him to AAA to work on his command
I'll go ahead and say it
Yes it’s early but I know getting rid of Woody is gonna bite us smack on the ass. I bitched the second it happened and i’ll bitch right through blown save number",God knows what"! Yes it’s early but remember,these April games are just as important as the ones in September.
No, they really aren't
Pennant race games are much more important.
But thanks for the preview of what we can expect from you all summer.
How’s Wood doing so far?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
And if we do
There will have been probably a dozen games in August and September that we can point to. All of which will have been more important than this game.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
plus there were be many plays and players to point to
not just Theriot, or Gregg, etc. Too many games left to be looking at how we will manage to miss the post season
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
do games in september count for 2? no they all count the same. april games are equally important as those in august.
No, they aren't
September games are more important because there is a ticking clock. If you’re two games back on September 1st, you have fewer games to make it up than if you’re two games back on April 15.
This “all games count the same” malarky is cooked up by overwrought fans who haven’t gotten out of March Madness mode, where one game ends a season.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
kinda agree
cuz at the same time, if you get those two wins in April then those two you point to in September are not needed.
It is the calssic “six of one half dozen of another”
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
Bullpen
Again, I’ll post this for those who think Marmol should replace Gregg… who then replaces Marmol? Marmol has thus far pitched in some of the biggest late-inning situations thus far. He has come in to get the team out of tough situations. He has come in and gone through the heart of the order in an attempt to keep the opposition at bay. Move Marmol to the 9th… fine… who are you moving to the true situations where the game is saved?
Piniella has 4 relievers who spend NO time on last year’s club in Gregg, Heilman, Patton and Vizcaino. A 5th, Guzman, has been up for a cup of coffee (or two). 5 of 7 relievers are relatively new to Piniella and Larry Rothschild. The sixth, Cotts is bad. So Don’t be surprised that its going to take a little while for this all to shake out and for Piniella and Rothschild to really figure out who does best and where they do best.
I thought Patton looked pretty good
even if he did give up an HR. And maybe, just maybe, Guzzy figures it out this year.
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not October yet.
Not every game is a must-win situation. Whatever happened to the idea that the first month or so of the season is to figure out what you’ve got, how it’s working, and then make adjustments according to your needs? The 2007 Cubs were 9 games under .500 on June 2, but enough baseball remained that everything sort of evened out and the cream rose to the top by game 162.
This is going to get absurd pretty fast if we can’t absorb a few losses along the way.
"May the sun never set on American baseball." ~Harry Truman
I felt this way
about the bullpen before the season even started. Just happened to post in after a blown save. Here are some closers that might be out there at the deadline:
1. George Sherrill
2. BJ Ryan
3. Brad Ziegler
4. Bobby Jenks- prob. not but maybe
5. Joakim Soria
6. Huston Street- prob. not but maybe
7. Fransisisco Cordero
8. Jose Valverde- I"d love to try to pry him from the Stros but not sure if they’ll trade him to division team.
And i’m sure there are a lot of other setup men that will be out there. I’m not saying that they need to trade for a relief pitcher today or tomorrow. However, it could catch up to them in Sept. and Oct. if they don’t bring in someone new for the 8th or 9th innings.
The one thing that I take back, is Milton Bradley. I’m really not that worried about him I just threw that in there.
Sorry
Line 1- just happened to post IT, not in
by cubbiefan07 on Apr 11, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Out of all those closers...
… I don’t think any would be available except Cordero, who has a monstrously bad contract that I wouldn’t want.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
how bout sherrill?
Ray will probably take his back eventually. I AM NOT SAYING WE SHOULD TRADE FOR HIM. just pointing out that i think he gets traded.
For the right offer
Sherrill is definitely expendable, irrespective of whether Ray succeeds.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
We will NOT be in the closer market
If Gregg fails…………Marmol closes. IMO……….the bigger issue is Theriot at SS (defensively speaking)
It has been discussed that we have no backup SS………..we really don’t have a starter. On the bright side we have 3 second basemen!
3 Second Baseman
Last time I counted Fontenot and Miles were the only 2.
by cubbiefan07 on Apr 12, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
closer
how about we trade for kerry wood??? oops bad idea.
The Game
has an obp of .389. His bat will be just fine as soon as he starts getting good pitches to hit.
exactly
he is taking pitches, beign selective, adn pitchers seem to be pitching around him. Smart on his part to take the pitches and walk, instead of have BCB threads blowing him up for swinging at bad pitches.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
stuck at work
after taking a half day Monday to go to Houstin with you, and then half a day on Wednesday for the MRI/MRA, had a lot of catch up to do. We should go this weekend
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
Why move him from the rotation/
He could close the four days he doesn’t start. We are coddling these guys too much. Remember when 3 Finger would pitch every other day?
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree w/ everything except the batting order
Do need more bullpen depth. Some will be available at some point this season.
I’m one of the many that think its ludicrous to hit Soriano leadoff. He’s a 6-hole hitter. And a poor outfielder. He’s a fast version of Wayne Nordhagen.
While we are on the topic of stupid Lou moves, why does he replace Kosuke for defense but not Bradley or Soriano? Both have already misplaced balls leading to losses ….
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
AUGH!
I’m getting a cramp in my leg from jumping up and down on the ledge. We’re not going to lead the division wire to wire, we’re not leading the league in fewest runs scored against, our team ERA is over 2, etc. etc. TRADE EVERYONE!
I left my clever sig line in my other pants.
It must be because Wrigley Field is out dated
Right?
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
EXACTLY.
We need one of those new parks with the bars and hot tubs and all the amineties so that people can somehow FORGET THEY’RE AT A BASEBALL GAME.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go impale my head on a spike.
I left my clever sig line in my other pants.
If Wrigley went alcohol free for a game ...
.. How many would show up? I think many at Wrigley go just to drink and be seen and care very little about the game.
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the case for many ballparks.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Unfortunate, but true.
My family room is my park. 46 inch LCD w/ Extra Innings and the only one spilling beer on me is myself.
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
if cinci loses today
we’ll be in third place.
if you can’t trade the, DFA them
TOO MANY TIMS!
But yes.
(Also I am amused by the ads for the baseball anime (Big Windup) that showed up in the adbars. I am even more amused by the fact that I know the lead voice actor for the English dub.)
I left my clever sig line in my other pants.
Woo Hoo
Reds are losing 5-0. What’s our magic number? I suggest we trade Ramirez and Soriana to Florida for Bonifacio. He’s hitting like .500 and at this pace will win the MVP and be inducted into Cooperstown.
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
5-1 one and Chris Walsh just said
the game is not over. He’s right, its the end of the 7th. Amazing insight Chris, thanks for your baseball wisdom.
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Apr 11, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
with the pirates involved
one could be excused for considering it a 7-inning high school game
but of course
they’ll probably be 3-2 soon,
hence waaaaaay better than us.
we should trade them marmol to get back veal to be a loogy
How do these fix a bullpen that you are posting is need of help?
Derrek Lee should not be hitting 3rd.
Milton Bradley is hitting under .100 and needs to get his bat going. Even though I gave him the player of the game for his home run today, he still didn’t have a great game.
The Cubs batting order should be as follows: Soriano, Theriot, Ramirez, Bradley, Soto (when back), Fontenot, Lee, Kosuke. I still really like Lee, but I think he would make the lineup better at the bottom.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
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