Carpenter Hurt Again
by louslovechild on Apr 14, 2009 10:58 PM CDT
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PrintCarpenter seems to have pulled a muscle in his rib cage and will most likely miss his start this weekend at Wrigley. Unlike most Cubs fans, I like beating the best, more than I like picking on the weak. Personally I think that the Cardinals are run by some of the smartest people in baseball. I don't like any of them, but they know what they are doing down there on the mighty Mississippi.
I have the MLB package, and based on my girlfriend's mood, I watch as much as I can. I pay attention to the Brewers and the Cardinals more than others, but definitely try and catch anything that Vin Scully does. The Cardinals are smoke and mirrors. They know how and when to pitch to what batters. They do not make decisions based on anger or emotion (LOU!), and they are well coached and do the little things perfect or they do not play. I am completely certain that whoever takes Carpenter's spot will pitch out of his mind; Dave Duncan will make sure of it. This team is going to more with less talent this year than any other team in baseball, only because it is demanded of them and nothing less is accepted. I give to you Exhibit A. As I write this little Fanpost, Yadier Molina stole second (yes, stole second), was advanced to third on a properly hit ball by Skip Schumaker, and driven in by some schmuck I have never head of. Like robots.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Well if you read the game thread at Viva El Birdos,
you’d think the season’s over. I never wish injury on any player. I DEFINITELY never wish injury on a player on both my fantasy teams who had one great start this year, and was well on his way to another one before he left with the injury. Fortunately for the Cards, it seems that it’s just a rib injury and nothing to do with his arm/shoulder. Apparently he hurt it swinging. If I’m TLR, I’m having Carp bunt every time he’s at the plate for the rest of his career, regardless of the situation. I’m only half-kidding.
Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.
I wouldn't even let him bunt
just stand there unless the situation calls for a bunt. If you walk you walk if you strikeout you strikeout.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
If you had actually read that thread
than you would have known that the reason that we were pissed was that Tony La Russa made a shit ton of crappy managing decisions in that game. We got over Carp, but watching Tony send Brendan Ryan up to bat with the bases loaded instead of Ludwick, was just way to fucking much.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Note.
You’re a welcome visitor here; you often add useful info to our conversation and I appreciate good back-and-forth with knowledgeable Cardinals fans.
However, please delete the profanity from your future posts. I just don’t want or need that here.
Thanks for understanding.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
my bad
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Boy that sounds like something Dusty would do
Guess he’s rubbing off on your guys because he’s back in the division. Boy, can’t wait until he’s back at Wrigley, thankfully on the 1st base side dugout.
You guys still have one of the best managers in all of MLB; even though I can see how you’d be PO’d about that one particular move.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
I read enough of the thread to feel safe in my statement.
Are you seriously denying the sky is falling/season’s over attitude that was going on after he got pulled? I wasn’t insulting Cardinals fans. It’s completely understandable to be pissed/depressed when your best pitcher leaves the game with an injury. But come on:
“just the season falling apart in front of our eyes”
“F*&#. Now it’s time to panic”
“Im going to kill myself”
I don’t doubt you guys were pissed about TLR later on. But Carp’s injury caused a threat-level purple freak out.
Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.
it really didn't
nobody was that pissed off about the injury. It was a fluke and likely not serious.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 16, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
The only team I worry about in the Central is the Cards
They always find a ways to stay in it. As much as Tony LaRussa annoys me, there’s no denying that he’s one of the great managers of all-time.
I would
agree. Year after year the Cards seem to be hanging around. As for LaRussa as a fan of baseball you really do need to admire him. If I were to continue, honestly I would have nothing but good things to say about that organization.
"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"
The good news for the Cards is that the injury appears to be on his left side.
Personally, I enjoyed the pitching duels in the past between Carpenter and Z and was looking forward to seeing a few this year.
It really is such a shame that a talent like Carpenter has been hurt so much in his career.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Apr 14, 2009 11:43 PM CDT reply actions
Sounds like its not that serious
I also wouldnt wish an injury on anyone.
But as far as “beating the best” or “picking on the weak” is concerned, give me the weak every day and twice on Sundays. The Cards could be right in this thing. Anything that disadvantages them by a game or two is welcome. Especially since, lets face it, we have a couple of injury prone pitchers ourselves.
Of course I don't WISH for injuries
But I don’t cry about them either. I couldn’t possibly care less if we “beat the best”
If the entire team got the flu and had to call up the AA squad to play us, I wouldn’t think any less of that victory.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
The ["Employee"] Zone
My father in law is a Cards fan. During Spring Training, I asked him whether Carpenter was healthy, and he indicated that he thought he’d never be completely healthy again. It reminds me of the Employee. For the Cards’ sake, I hope that’s not the case. And, for what it’s worth, Carpenter seems to be tougher about it than the Employee ever seemed to be. But I do not think that a lot of their fans are counting upon him too much.
by hoosierdaddynow on Apr 15, 2009 7:11 AM CDT reply actions
Speaking of him
Speaking of him I wonder what’s up with him. Last time I heard he was still rehabbing from his 227 injuries.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on Apr 15, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Side note...
I like Vin Scully too… I like to put the Dodgers games on in the bedroom and fall peacefully asleep to his dulcet tones.
by Great Odin's Raven on Apr 15, 2009 7:54 AM CDT reply actions
i was gonna buy you a box of kleenex
i guess i don’t hafta
So the Cubs have Bradley down and Cards have Carpenter down,
which is worse for which team?
Groins can be troublesome if not attended correctly can take an extended period of time. Torso pulls can be longer and more troublesome, especially pitchers who leverage their body to throw.
I guess it all depends on what happens here on out. But in my book the Cards are weakest on the mound and a loss causes a bigger hole while the Cubs are deep in OF and can overcome and have planned for it.
As for the Cards front office and manager….they are good and don’t despise your opponent/competition——beat them
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Groins can be troublesome?
You don’t have to tell me, buddy.
by HereComesASpecialBoy on Apr 15, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Carp is more of an impact player than Bradely
Plus the Cardinals have no starting depth, but the Cubs have some decent backup OF depth.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
and Wow
Cubs website has Todd Wellemeyer pitching Saturday and Sundays game. I didn’t know he was that good.
link
Wow, you're right.
Still listed that way this evening. Wellemeyer’s going to be pretty tired.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Too bad about Carpenter
I admire Carpenter for his perseverance and commitment to craft. Cardinals will never ever be underestimated by me. They remain a formidable team with or without Carpenter.
I think you are underestimating the Cards' talent...
saying that the Cards are “smoke and mirrors” this year is faulty logic.
Their lineup has Pujols, Ludwick, Ankiel, Duncan, and eventually Glaus. That’s a LOT of pop. They also have a solid OBP guy in Schumacker at the top, and Rasmus has a lot of potential as well.
The pitching staff has two aces in Wainright and Carpenter (I’m assuming this injury is only minor and he’ll be back soon), a very solid #3 starter in Lohse, and innings eaters in the #4 and #5 spots. The bullpen has a solid guy in Franklin and two fantastic LOOGYs (Miller and Reyes). If a couple of other guys step up, they’ll be really solid back there.
The health of Carpenter is the key. If he’s healthy, they’re to be reckoned with. If he’s not healthy, they’ll have to overachieve again. But it’s most certainly not smoke and mirrors – there’s a lot of talent there.
by SouthernCub on Apr 15, 2009 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I agree, but
regardless of whether you like TLR, he usually gets his teams to overachieve. Carpenter’s injury is pretty minor and given what he’s been through the last 2 years, not that surprising.
While I said it’s a pretty minor injury, it hurts like a beast.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Franklin is not good at all
His FIP was below replacement level last year, meaning he got insanely lucky, and if he doesn’t improve this year then he will be terrible. However Motte and Perez, who will eventually be the closer and setup men this year, are the real deal.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Way to over generalize
“Unlike most Cubs fans, I like beating the best, more than I like picking on the weak.”
Like most Cubs fans, I enjoy picking one point to rant about and ignoring everything else you said. Basically, because you lost all credibility after this one sentence.
Being a douche bag helped you lose yours
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Apr 15, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Knock off the name calling.
Unnecessary.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Had I gone with D-Bag, would that have been a preferred term?
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Apr 15, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow...
See that over there, that far off thing in the distance?
That’s the point you just missed.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I was being sarcastic WORF!
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Apr 15, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
tough luck for Carpenter
but…………….a W is a W…………………we have our own injury worries…………whaether he misses one start or the whole season…………who cares?
How can you possibly know what most Cub fans think. And
the Cardinals are not smoke and mirriors. They are coached to play the game right. If they “overachieve”(your word), it is because thay play the right way. To me, that makes them good at baseball.
What I meant by smoke and mirrors was.....
the lack of talent. They are a superior team as far as playing the game the right way, and doing all the little things. Pujols may be the best right handed hitter of this generation or maybe any other, but Chris Duncan, Ryan Ludwick, a career minor leaguer until 2007, and a wide array of other mediocre players, play consistently over their heads. This is all due to coaching, proper management, and Dave Duncan’s pure genius when it comes to properly managing a pitching staff and observing talent.
Talent they definitely, in my opinion, lack. Playing the game the right way is how they are going to come damn close to 90 wins this season.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Apr 15, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
As I said, I think you are underrating their talent...
Ludwick happened to be a career minor leaguer prior to 2007. But plenty of players don’t make it until 28. He’s not a low-talent guy. Duncan is a classic platoon hitter. He mashes RHP. Ankiel is a good hitter too – don’t let the fact that he was a pitcher fool you. He’s always been a good hitter. And I don’t think we have to debate that Glaus is a proven MLB power hitter.
Just because you don’t care for them doesn’t mean there isn’t talent there. If you’re playing “consistently over your head,” that kind of means you aren’t playing over your head.
It is the exact opposite
The Cards do have a lot of talent, but Tony’s crappy managaging may hide that. Despite having a wealth of talented position players and excellent young relievers, he continues to give way too much playing time to “more experienced” and lesser players. Also, he has a (s)crappy middle infielder fetish, as evidenced by the fact that he is carry THREE utility infielders this year, instead of Brian Barton.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Tony is "on" more than he is "off"
…I am sure he will work out the kinks. I agree with louslovechild – the management of that organization appears to be better than most in the NL. Maybe not the best, but certainly far from the worst.
"Just win tonight" - derv
As a diehard Cardinals fans,
I have noticed almost all of Tony’s management decisions. As a pretty knowledgeable subscriber of the sabermetric principles of the game, I can tell you that Tony is NOT a good manager anymore, at least in tangible ways.
He consistently makes terrible lineups, often putting the worst hitters at the top of the order. He gives way to many at bats to MIF’s who can’t hit a lick, like Barden, Ryan, Thurston, Miles and Eckstein (I love him, but come on). He plays the “hot hand” instead of guys who have had sustained success, when it has been proven that a hot or cold streak is rarely an indicator of future performance. He bunts and hit-and-run’s way too much, and those things are proven to often have a negative affect on scoring runs.
He leverages relievers badly, using Ryan Franklin and Brad Thompson, two relievers who are the definition of replacement level, in high leverage situations. He constantly makes double switches and superfluous pitching changes, that only serve to diminish depth late in the game.
In other words, he over manages way too much. There are some positive things that he does, like seemingly getting the best out of players and I think that Pujols likes him, but in most tangible ways, he isn’t a good manager.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't there an issue between Pujols and LaRussa...
in the last couple years, or am I thinking of someone else? I know about the Rolen and Edmonds things… hell, and countless others really. Am I just making this Pujols “issue” up, or what was it?
Calm down
I was frustrated as anyone with the Brendan Ryan-over-Ryan Ludwick move but come on. Those lineups consistenly score runs whether you like them or not. The guy has 4 bazillion wins for a reason. He utilizes the talent he has in a way he thinks gives the team a best chance. I for one don’t have a problem with that. Sometimes that means playing a hot hand despite what your sabermetric principles say. You and I are not down on the field, we can’t possibly see everything he is seeing and hearing from other coaches at any given time…. It won’t always work the way he envisioned it but so be it. He’s right far more than he’s wrong. IMO.
No need to jump off the bridge yet.
Having a lot of wins doesn't prove anything
managers have very little effect on the game, the fact that he has had so many wins is because he has managed a lot of really good teams. I don’t know everything that happens on the field, but I do know enough to know when Tony makes a bad decision, and he has been making a lot more recently.
Also, it isn’t just his in-game decisions, it is his whole philosophy of the game. He overrates the closer role, saying that young and more talent players “aren’t ready” for it while continue to trot of “veteran” and “proven” crappy relievers like Franklin. He carries too many MIF’s who don’t add anything to the team, and worse, as he showed two nights ago, he even puts them in high leverage situations, where they definitely don’t belong.
I believe that Tony was a good manager. He “invented” the LOOGY, which is very useful to the game today. He has always done a good job managing players, and getting the best out of them. However, as a strictly stratigical manager, he is bad.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 16, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess we'll agree to disagree
Cards are leading the NL in runs already. So something tells me the insane lineups aren’t made by a guy who is bad at strategical managing.
That has nothing to do with Tony
and all to do with the fact that we are leading the league in wOBA.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 16, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
As for Carp
I was crushed. His stuff was magnificent in his first game and I was really looking forward to a great pitching duel on Sunday with you guys. I enjoy a 2-1 game with fantastic defense and great pitching. I highly doubt Wellemeyer will keep the Cubs under 4-5 but I guess you never know.
Looking forward to PJ Walter’s debut tomorrow.
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