I hate this idea, but at the same time...
by bdoubleu on Apr 20, 2009 6:53 PM CDT
Email
PrintTo consider, for later in the season.
Depending on whether or not the latter parties stay healthy, if the Cubs are pushing for the playoffs and the Padres are still looking to reduce their payroll.
This is a short term solution, stating boldly that the Cubs are making a legitimate run to go deep into the playoffs and hopefully win it all.
Trade Geovany Soto and Sean Marshall for Jake Peavy and Nick Hundley?
I'm not asking how anyone "feels" about this. I have to detach myself emotionally from this trade. I really like Soto a lot. He's one of my favorite players. Catching options for the Padres are kind of slim.
In this scenario you have Koyie Hill starting with the familiar Cubs pitchers and perhaps Hundley starting every 5th day with Peavy. Cubs might have to give up more than Marshall to get a catcher and a pitcher.
I just want to know what you guys think of this from an objective standpoint. This is by no means a slight toward Geo. His offense will be missed. I think he will be great for years to come.
I am just trying to put the Cubs in the best scenario possible where pitching and (hopefully) low ERA's from the Cubs starters can put them deep into the playoffs to the point where the extra runs Geo may provide aren't needed.
If this idea has been talked about before, I apologize. Feel free to combine this into a similar thread if that is the case.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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I don't know...
I’m more for the idea of getting Adrian Gonzalez from them. Not that I hate Derrek Lee and think his badness will continue, it’s that his prime is over, and A-Gon is a better, younger first basemen. Trade Derrek Lee, Tyler Colvin, Micah Hoffpauir, and Ryan Flaherty for Adrian Gonzalez.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 20, 2009 7:00 PM CDT reply actions
He does
Because when it comes to sports, we die harder than Bruce Willis.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 20, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Correct
Add Fox. This team needs a first basemen of the future. DLee only has one, maybe 2 good years left.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 20, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Padres have a real good 1b prospect
no glove, but real real good bat, sickels ranks him as their #1 prospect link. As for trading Soto I would really like to hang on to him (I still have bad Scott Servais flash backs)
Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation
by CubFanRaysaddict on Apr 20, 2009 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
He does
But he has expressed interest in playing closer to home which IIRC is Sacramento
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
He does however
I cannot imagine that if it were presented that the Cubs were going a different way at 1B and that Lee would be a bench player, while possible being a starter elsewhere, he wouldn’t consider the trade. I thinnk his time is up here too. I like the guy, just want more production from a corner IF spot.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Apr 21, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I want Adrián González (not in that way)
but he’d be perfect for the Cubs. No way it’ll happen though. Every [rich] team (other than the Yankees, who are set at that position for a while) will throw him more money than he could ever dream or hope. I don’t think the Cubs under this or the next ownership will be able to afford him.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Yuck
To take a line from a former Celtics coach- Jake Peavy isn’t walking through that door. Move on
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
Let's see
Last years ROY and a promising young arm for someone who has health issues and is owed a gazillion dollars over the next couple of years?
Unless Towers has naked pictures of Jim Hendry this aint going to happen.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
Terrible Idea
Peavy is bound for injury problems sooner rather than later, so he’s not worth the cost
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
By the way
I would LOVE it if you (or anyone else) could point me to a reasoned study showing that “Peavy is bound for injury problems sooner rather than later.”
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
I dont know that those exist
But the fact that he’s already spent time injured last year with elbow problems, the fact that he’s a power pitcher and the fact that he plays in one of, if not the best pitchers park in the league doesnt bode well for his chances of longterm excellence outside of SD. Hes good, but we wouldnt be getting the Peavy of the past few years
And you certainly dont give up an All-Star catcher for him
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
He has been injured, but it's not like this is Rich Harden we're talking about
He spent one stint on the DL last year and people are treating his elbow like it’s about to explode.
How does the fact that he is a power pitcher make him more likely to get injured? Junkballers get injured too. Just because he pitched in Petco doesn’t mean that you can throw out his stats completely, that’s why we use park factors, even after which he’s still one of the top pitchers in the league.
I think this trade idea is a bad one as well, but let’s get real about Jake Peavy here. He’s a great pitcher.
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
Well that could be the first warning sign
That hes about to deal with some reoccurring injury problems. And yes, no matter where he pitches, youre going to get a certain level of production, but youd be paying the price of a Cy Young winner, in terms of people and money, when you wouldnt be receiving that same level of production, as his home/road splits show.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
He had a small dip in his strikeout rate
But I think he’ll be fine. I think he’s still a Cy contender away from Petco. Those strikeout numbers play anywhere, and become even more valuable away from the cavernous Peto field, where you can pitch to contact more easily. Do you know what his home/road splits are relative to other pitchers? It’s unclear what that means unless you provide some context. I would expect that most pitchers pitch better at home. The question here is how much better does Peavy pitch?
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
Well theyve got to be some one exacerbated
B/C of the nature of that park, but strikeouts alone dont win Cy Youngs. I just think we’d be disappointed by any Peavy trade scenario b/c we wouldnt be getting the Peavy of a few years ago
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Right, but Jake Peavy is not just about strikeouts
Pitchers who strike people out and don’t walk very many players are going to succeed anywhere. In fact those skills are even more valuable in hitters’ parks, since you put less balls in play.
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
True enough
I just think his overall numbers will inflate w/o the safety of Petco, making him a less valuable, but still good, pitcher and ultimately not worth someone like Soto; especially when power hitting catchers who can play some D are a rare commodity
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
that is the most sensible reply I've seenso far...
Is there anyone else on the Cubs roster that you think would work instead of Soto?
Well I dont know that he was every included
So yes, I would imagine there would be somebody, provided the Cubs are still Peavys only chosen destination. Then I would imagine it would be centered around Vitters.
But given Lees already noticeable decline, Id be inclined to hang onto Josh and hope either he or Ramirez can play first after Lee’s deal is up.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Ridiculous.
Trade an All-Star catcher for a maybe and a guy with possible elbow trouble?
This would be what used to be known as a “challenge trade” — teams would trade guys who played similar positions and hope they would do better in their new homes. They rarely worked then — one of the most famous was when the Indians traded the HR champion, Rocky Colavito, to Detroit for the batting average champion, Harvey Kuenn, and neither team benefited — and they wouldn’t work now.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I agree that this is probably a bad plan, but more for monetary reasons
Trade an All-Star catcher for a maybe and a guy with possible elbow trouble?
You could just as easily say “Trade an All-star pitcher for a maybe and a guy with possible shoulder trouble?”. I still don’t understand all of the Peavy injury scare stuff. I’m more worried about fitting his contract into the payroll (though I think he could more than earn that money).
By the way, the first challenge trade that comes to mind for me is Garza for Young.
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
Why are so obsessed with the idea that Peavy is an injury risk
He has been about as durable of a starter in the majors over the past 6 years, pitching at least 27 starts and averaging nearly 200 innings a season. I’m not trying to be argumentative, but why do you feel so strongly that Peavy is an injury risk?
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 22, 2009 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
He had some elbow trouble last year.
We’ll see if that affects him this year. He hasn’t gotten off to a good start and was awful in the WBC.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Worse than Lee Smith
for Al Nipper and Calvin Schiraldi.
Worse than Raffy Palermo for Mitch Williams.
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
NO WAY
Nothing was worse than the Lee Smith trade- we gave away the premier reliever in baseball for nothing. At least in the Brock/Broglio trade, Brock was still largely an unknown.
"I still don't know what happened"- Fergie Jenkins on '69
by tommy veryzer on Apr 20, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
At least Williams helped us get to the playoffs in '89
And remember, the pre-steroided Raffy wasn’t all that great-his first couple of years with Texas made it look like the Cubs had a steal.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 20, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
plus we were palying Raffy in RF
and he was not a solid RFer since we had Grace at 1B blocking him
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
it's the crack
or one heck of a tear with a case of well aged Pabst Blue Ribbon ..
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
I'm giving you a +1 because this is the most ridiculous Jake Peavy post since the season has started.
Well done, sir.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
I agree
"So chicks dig guys who TAKE AWAY the long ball, too? " by dat cubfan daver
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 20, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait, so is this a parody post?
If so, we should explain to the esteemed Fanposter that such missives are strictly verboten.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
You should be banned from giving out rec's for a week if you were the one that rec'd this trash.
Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.
by Schwa on Apr 21, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm recommending you for commenting on my recommendation.
Because recommendations are worthless without de-recommendations.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Apr 21, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
My head hurts
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree
This is the first proposition that actually makes sense for both clubs.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 22, 2009 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
you think trading
an All Star Catcher — who is under club control for a long time to come — for a free-agent aging pitcher makes sense for the Cubs?
Maybe it makes sense for the Cardinals for the Cubs to do that…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
No way would the Cubs even consider trading Geo at this point
A slightly more realistic possibility would be offering Wellington Castillo (as part of a package) who is very well regarded, especially defensively.
who the crap is that?
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 20, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
He's the Cubs top minor league catching prospect.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 20, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
If you "hate this idea..."
Then why’d you create a fanpost about it?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Apr 20, 2009 9:31 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
C'mon, one more to turn this green
Anyone? Anyone?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I got your back
sockpuppetShanghai.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Excellent
Thanks, me mambochicken Drew
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm on it.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
TWSS
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Because...
Its one of those bad ideas that, at times might sound kind of good… but you can’t get out of your head so you need to share it with others to understand just how bad it really is.
Uh, one other thing- there’s really no need to be dicks. It’s one thing to disagree but this entire thread went up in flames. At times I really like this place, but in this case you guys made 4chan look agreeable.
The aforementioned pitcher and Soto were both all-stars., that’s all I have to say about it further. I guess there’s no point in getting in to it further since this has obviously been deliberated well too much. I apologize for hitting a nerve and getting everyone’s blood boiling.
by bdoubleu on Apr 21, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Try not to take all the joking around too personally.
The simple fact is that trade scenarios revolving around Peavy were beaten to a fine dust around here during the off-season, and it’s hard to take any further suggestions seriously anymore. You mention in your Fanpost that you’re not sure whether this subject has been covered before – one good way to find out is by using the search function conveniently located at the top right of this and every page.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I'll have to give a couple of points for originality, but other
than that……I don’t think so. I don’t think you really want to weaken a position that you are strong at to strengthen a position that you are in good shape. The Cubs starting pitching doesn’t need to be bolstered to the point to where you trade away one of your top young players. We already know that you only need four good pitchers for the post-season. The Cubs have enough arms to get them to the playoffs, we’ve been down that road before. We don’t need to weaken the catching position and take away a big chunk of offense. Nice try….move on.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 20, 2009 10:52 PM CDT reply actions
Soto?!
The Cubs finally have their first real catcher since Randy Hundley and you want him to be dealt? Peavy isn’t worth it. I’m not sure Halliday is even worth it.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
This may be one thing we can agree on.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Ironically, he wants to trade Geo for a catcher NAMED Hundley.
(And, yeah, that other guy.)
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Are you crazy?
Soto is an all star catcher no doubt, but he isn’t as valualbe as Peavy, and definitely not as valuable as Halladay.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 22, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Be careful, you may end up eating those words.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 22, 2009 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Probably not
BTW, I love your whole “Major League” theme.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 22, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks. It's my favorite movie. Bob Uecker is priceless in that
one. It’s one of the few movies that makes me laugh out loud even though I have seen it about 100 times.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 22, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions
same here
I used to watch it with my dad and we always cracked up.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 22, 2009 1:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I feel like I've been Rick Rolled.
The title of this post got me curious enough to check it out only to find another one about Peavy-just when I was starting to forget about him. D’oh!
no one cares
about your fantasy league baseball team.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
Thief....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Apr 21, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
It's an homage!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Apr 21, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
"If this idea has been talked about before, I apologize."
Might I assure you, good sir, that the subject of a trade involving the 27-year-old right-handed pitcher who plays under the sobriquet “Jake Peavy” has never been discussed here. Never ever ever ever ever ever.
Ever.
Oh, and I would not approve the suggested trade. Never ever ever ever ever ever.
Ever.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
What if they acquired and included Brian Roberts?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Only if Lou promises to bring Shark up and put Marshall in the Pen, and move Soriano down in the lineup.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Pound stuffing, mambochicken!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll have you know
I was the equipment manager for the Church of Perpetual “Mommy’s Got To Go To Work Now, Darling” Preschool Centobarchs Pee-Wee T-Ball league for their championship season of May 5, 1987-June 1st, 1987 (Record: 1-0-15), I should think my baseball knowledge is better than my baseball knowledge!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I stand corrected, sir!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
as do I!
wait, what?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Break it up, you two...
…or I’ll have to put on my hat.
How long should we give sig lines at the bottom of the comments?
Bradley watch -- out 3 games of 11
what, you want asexual cellular division?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
Stop that. It’s silly.
How long should we give sig lines at the bottom of the comments?
Bradley watch -- out 3 games of 11
Is that one of the UNIT boys?
It’s not Yates or Benton . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
wait
do you really not recognize that?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, I don't
Help yourself me out and explain what it is . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
whups.
why’d you post it that way?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, of course!
Man, is your face red!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I oughta sock myself in the mouth
for that one.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I hate his fanpost, but at the same time...
I also hate this fanpost.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 12:28 PM CDT reply actions
I think I love you
But what am I so afraid of?
I’m afraid that I’m not sure of
a love there is no cure for
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
-1 for using a Partridge Family reference and making that song go through my head.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I was sleeping
and right in the middle of a good dream
Like all at once I wake up
from something that keeps knocking at my brain
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
rain, rain go away . . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Geesh...
Sometimes this board is like an angry, jaded mob with pitchforks.
The instances where I’d trade Soto are pretty rare and the above example isn’t one of them (you only need to look at his PECOTA card here for why, although it’s not totally out of the question), but I’m not nearly as personally offended as some inexplicably seem be any time someone raises as a thought experiment the prospect of trading someone…
People act like their honor was just challenged or something…
Not our honor, just our patience.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I was asking for it
When I bolded the trade line and essentially left the trolls to pull a TLDR and start flaming away.
I also took heat for posting another Peavy post. What I meant when I said “has this been talked about before” was the specific notion that Soto could and be traded to strengthen the Cubs pitching. In this scenario, possibly for a guy like Peavey.
I did search for “trade Soto, Peavy” in the forums and didn’t come up with much. This is what lead to the post.
I’m still open to talk about trading Soto. Rookie of the year catchers are few and far between, I think I was shortsighted in this respect. I now definitely think they traded him, they would have to get a lot more than Peavey for sure.
In the end I think we all realized I was taking Soto for granted a little too much and Peavy definitely isn’t worth talking about anymore.
For some of us who were around during the summer doldrums...
the mere mention of Peavy is casus belli (mostly because we talked it to death and then resurrected it just so we could kill it again).
On the idea of trading Soto: I think that trading a player of his value (current and future) for the uncertain return of a pitcher in the short-term/playoff run…doesn’t make much sense. For me it would have to be someone whose value goes beyond the immediate, uncertain impact of the latter half of this year.
I could imagine there are some trade packages that might be worth it from the Cubs perspective (getting someone like Timmy Lincecum, Sabathia, or Halladay; or else Chad Billingsley + a good position player maybe), but moves that won’t happen because MLB isn’t a Fantasy League.
Btw, I also think that the value of a good-hitting catcher is usually inflated by how rare they are (as opposed to the actual marginal value that a good hitting catcher brings compared to merely a decent hitting catcher). So if you can fleece a team into over-paying for it, it’s not a terrible idea. But if the potential offers don’t blow you away, there isn’t much point in giving that blue-chip away…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Apr 21, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Everything positive about Soto is always marked with an asterisk (*for a catcher) but...
Trading Soto is probably a bad idea since the guy could very well be a Hall of Fame catcher one day…
There are very few other catchers who have won Rookie of the Year and quite a few of those guys are now Hall of Famers. Johnny Bench, Thurman Munson, Earl WIlliams, Carlton Fisk, Benito Santiago, Sandy Alomar Jr, and Mike Piazza… Geovany Soto. So yeah, that’s some elite company.
He’s probably worth three guys on his own, even with the * – I’m not sure any team would be willing to give up three guys but if I had to pick one it would be a team willing to give up a starting pitcher, quality reliever and backup catcher. Even then it would probably look like the stupidest idea ever unless the Cubs did go onto win it all the year of the trade.
The whole point of the original post wasn’t to secure anything long-term for the team, shortsighted as that may be, a World Series victory for the Cubs would be the only thing that would make losing a guy like Soto worthwhile.
Your not personally offended, you're just whining about us whining about it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
You have an expansive definition of "whining"...
but even if someone did read mine with a whiny voice, at least I’m not acting like someone just publicly insulted my kid’s Little League shortstop abilities…
More importantly, I’m disappointed that you didn’t include some sort of entertaining graphic to call me a whiner… :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Apr 21, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Disappointment...get used to it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, given that we're Cub fans...
I think it’s safe to say we’re all well-versed in it.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Apr 21, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait, read the first sentence in the body of the text again
Mr. Theriot . . . ?
We’re sorry for mocking your son’s Little League shortstop abilities.
;-)
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
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