Ok, If NOT Peavy, Who?
by Musicdude10 on Apr 21, 2009 11:51 AM CDT
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PrintI'm going to go out there and say that Harden probably isn't going to return next year. I think that means that the Cubs are going to get a pitcher either at the deadline (if the bullpen continues it's woefulness, thus adding Marshall back to the 'pen) or during the off-season. From what I've been reading around here and from baseball in general, Peavy seems to be a pitch or two away from season ending injuries to various parts of his arm and elbow. This site in particular has begun to express disinterest in him. So I'm ruling him out.
So the question becomes, who would you get? And what cost would you be willing to spend?
The focal point to the Peavy deal seemed to be Josh Vitters. Sean Marshall was also in that deal but he may be needed next year. So maybe Wells or Adkins is a replacement. Although neither has much major league experience, both would probably get a shot in the majors relatively quickly in a bad system. People have also mentioned Tyler Colvin (who seems like he is finally learning to be a good hitter), Jake Fox, Nate Spears, and Jose Ascanio. Two guys who seem to be mentioned a lot here but I doubt have much trade value are also Bobby Scales and Sam Fuld.I don't consider myself an expert on the Cubs farm system, so I'm sure there are other guys who have some trade value. I'm pretty sure the Shark wouldn't be involved in any trade.
I can come up with a few names for who the Cubs could go after and a few pipe dreams. I'm interested in hearing who you all think they would go after.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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no one.
freakin use the frakin minor league talent we have.
Marshall stays in the rotation. Shark joins the rotation. That’s why he stretching out in AAA right now anyway.
But why wouldn’t Harden come back next year?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 11:54 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
This is
The last year of his contract. The author assumes he will leave a as an FA.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Exactly
I think they won’t go after him. He’s not ancient but he is getting there and the injury prone factor is huge, especially because the bullpen is needed earlier in games. If Lou doesn’t like the ’pen again next year, it could be bad.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
"Not ancient"? He's 27.
He’s not even “old”. He’s “entering his prime”, and “finally past the ages when most pitchers experience arm trouble necessitating surgery.”
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Cubs management
seemed to make it clear when they let Woody go, that they are not giving big deals to injury-prone pitchers.
Really? I think he'll be back
How much money can he reasonably command? It all depends on his performance, but if its reasonable, i dont see why they would make him an offer.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
plus
he plays for the best team. :D
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
The two situations aren't that comparable.
First, I’ll submit that I disagreed, and continue to disagree, with the decision not to offer Wood arbitration. He should still be a Cub.
That being said, Rich Harden is a 27 year old starter who has been dinged up many, many times, but who has never had surgery, and who made 25 absolutely dominant starts in 2008.
Kerry Wood was/is a 32 year old closer with a history of major elbow and shoulder surgeries.
The disparate nature of their jobs, injury histories, and ages indicates that Harden is dramatically more valuable – especially if he makes another 25-30 starts in 2009.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Agreed
But he is still pretty fragile, and the idea that there is permanent irreparable damage to his shoulder should be some cause for concern. However, If I were Harden and the Cubs manage to keep me healthy this year I would think about taking a discount to stay because they have figured out how to handle me the past two years.
Also from the Cubs perspective, if Marshall performs this year they have 2 guys who really want to step into the starters role and only one spot to put them in Samardzija and Heilman and really only one spot to put them into.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Heilman isnt a starter
I think his career numbers bare (its not bear, is it?) that out.
Interesting point on the coaching though, maybe Harden wouldnt want to mess with a good thing, he seems to have been relatively healthy for us, so perhaps they have a good working relationship. And he’s better served by playing in the NL, and there a few teams who will be as consistently competitive as the Cubs.
Do you think hes going to want an 8 figure a year deal? If the Gil Meches of the world can get that, I dont see why 11M or so wouldnt be the starting point for Rich
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
It is bear, actually.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
interesting
I shouldve gone with my initial instinct
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Harden
If he has a good year and is a major cog in a playoff push will certainly be able to command 10 mil a year. Its hard enough to find good starting pitching and someone with Harden’s stuff shouldn’t have a problem getting that even in this economy.
As far as Heilman goes I was just putting another name into the ring, we know he wants to start, so I figure that to keep him happy he will continue to get a chance each spring to earn a rotation spot.
Also, both Marshall and Smardzija are under club control and will likely (unless Marshall wins a big arbitration case or gets a longterm contract) make less than 5 mil next year.
It will be hard if the Cubs do let Harden walk because he is so dominant, but I would be pretty happy if the Cubs rotation next year was Z, Demp, Lilly, Jeff, and Marshall.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
If Harden, Marshall, Shark and Heilman are fighting for 3 spots
I think that it is pretty clear what the Cubs would prefer happen.
Heilman is 30, and was transitioned to the bullpen 4 years ago, where he became dramatically more productive.
The guy has 25 career starts, and he went 5-13 and generally got knocked around to the tune of a 5.93 ERA and a 133 OPS+. He became a reliever and his ERA and all of his peripherals (esp. his K/BB rate) improved markedly.
Generally, pitchers in their early 30s who haven’t started a game for 5 years don’t make the transition back to a contender’s rotation.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
You're absolutely right.
It will be interesting to see if the Cubs, emboldened by Dempster’s success, try to do it again or stick with the law of averages.
Derrek Lee is good.
can Heilman
run up the mountain?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Dempster's a different case, too.
Dempster obviously became a reliever for 2 reasons — while recovering after the the elbow surgery, and lack of a better closer. It was like John Smoltz, except that he’d only been a mediocre starter and wasn’t as good as a closer either.
Obviously, Dempster turned his entire career around through hard work and getting in phenomenal shape. But his resume as a starter was already light-years ahead of Heilman’s. We were hoping for Dempster to fulfill the promise of his inconsistent but occasionally very good early 20’s.
WIth Heilman, there really aren’t any “glory days” as a starter to return to.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Oh I am with you on that
I don’t see Heilman starting for this club either. However, he was given a shot this spring, and he has said that he wants to be starter. So I just threw his name into the pool with the others.
The main thrust of the argument though is if the Cubs resign Harden, of Marshall and Notre Dame, who is the odd man out? I mean that would be a great quandry to have, this past spring was a blast watching Marshall, Heilman and Samardzija battle for that fifth starter’s job.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Perhaps, though he got lit up last nite
2 Run HR in the ninth
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
That's like saying...
You don’t need a car because you have feet.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
More like saying...
You don’t need a brand new BMW because you have a perfectly acceptable 2007 Honda Accord.
He's more
like a Pacer. Gets the job done, but looks bad doing it.
Look, at least he’s not a pinto, like Patterson. BOOM!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
For crying out loud
He’s hitting .400 with an OPS in the high .900s. CUT HIM SOME SLACK.
by Orval Overall on Apr 21, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Again....
we aren’t bemoaning Theriot for his offense. I wouldn’t dream of taking his bat out of the lineup. His feet on the base-paths and his arm and glove in the field however…
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea but if we take his feet and arms....
I’m guessing his bat will suffer.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Apr 21, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
You sir, are a liar and a rouge.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
It made me laugh, though.
“But your arm’s off.”
“No it’s not.”
…
“What are you going to do, bleed on me?”
THAT is scrappy.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
red-5 standing by
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Cut the chatter red-5 and accelerate to attack speed.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
stay on target
Funny how loneliness sounds so good, until you hear the echoes of your soul burning a hole in your shirt. -DJM
Yeah, I'm wearing it. So what?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
honestly
his bat is fine. He’s even been hitting to left, and getting some extra-base hits.
My problem isn’t with the batting gloves. It’s with the FIELDING gloves. And the running shoes.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
right
so we need a Shortstop.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
We could go to
The cubs real farm system to get a Pitcher. The Pirates!
What if Harden makes every start and wants to come back at a discount?
I’ll worry about 2010 after the Cubs are no longer a factor in 2009.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 12:24 PM CDT reply actions
I'm sorry, but...
if Harden is completely healthy this year, why on earth would he not cash in at perhaps his last shot at doing so? It’s not like he’s been here long enough to be “loyal” either, so I think the whole hometown discount thing is a reach.
That wasn't my point -- you should read the whole comment
And you’d realize I was trying to politely say, why the $#*& are we worried about 2010 in April, 2009?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I did read the whole comment.
The subject line is pretty unrelated to the comment area.
At any rate, I do agree with you in that thinking about 2010 right now is silly.
The subject line was refuting the supporting data before criticizing the premise
No offense, but I really didn’t think I’d have to spell that out.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
And what I mean by the last comment is
That’s why I wasn’t more explicit in the original…perhaps I should have been
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm silly, i guess
my time horizon is usually 3-5 years, not 3-5 days.
were it not, i wouldn’t read josh’s daily report, well, daily.
It won't be his last shot. It's just his first shot.
Harden is 27 years old. Even if someone gives him a 5-year deal, which they won’t, he’ll have at least 1 more chance at a big payday.
That all depends on his staying healthy, but, that’s true for every 27-year old pitcher.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Agreed.
We are 11 days into a season where we have won three series and split the other. Why would anyone panic and want to make a trade on April 21?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
no matter
how many times i see it, that’s still a great picture.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I plan
on overusing the heck out of it. THE HECK, I SAY!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
on this board, it will get a lot of air play
Funny how loneliness sounds so good, until you hear the echoes of your soul burning a hole in your shirt. -DJM
I think it will happen eventually
It doesn’t need to happen this week
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
In fairness,
this fanpost—for the most part—doesn’t strike me as ledge-perching. Is it feasible that the team could be doing well AND make a deal at the deadline, a la Harden last year? (Especially if the sale is complete and Ricketts signs off.) While it may be April, it’s still fun to think down the line.
So what kind of move could be made/would be an added bonus to what should be a great baseball club?
Considering this team really has no glaring weaknesses, I would probably say a power bullpen arm, lefty if possible. Would having an elite SS, 2B, or CF be swell? Yes, swell indeed. But that doesn’t seem very likely and the gentlemen we currently have at those positions are doing a more than sufficient job (LBR will pick it up. Relax.)
http://thegettinplace.blogspot.com/
I would agree with you if the post had addressed adding a power LH bullpen arm
or a backup infielder, but to suggest changing the rotation at this point is a bit silly. Who knows how things will pan out over the next couple of months? Marshall has had exactly one start. It’s mid-April. This is nonsense.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 22, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions
we have pretty good
centerfielders. An elite shortstop would, indeed, be nice.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
many teams
would love to have our “problem” at SS.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
well
I’m sure they’d love to have him batting.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Why are we all convinced that Theriot is a horrible fielder?
He’s not Ozzie Smith or Omar Vizquel, but he has had a positive UZR for every year he’s been a starting shortstop.
He’s certainly not bringing anything to the table with his glove, but he’s not really taking anything off the table, either. He just seems like an “adequate” fielder, and probably an above-average offensive player for his position… who happened to get caught stealing too much last year.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I continue to think he’s a liability on the field. The number of balls he simply doesn’t get to, the late throws to Lee, the double-clutching…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
UZR encompasses the balls he does and doesn't get to.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
This is the understanding I've come to about Theriot as well.
And I know it’s not a popular one. I believe Theriot was rated, overall, average to above average in two of three of the better known defensive metric systems (UZR and RZR, I think). He fell below average in another. (Obviously, I wish I had more time to research and confirm this point.)
Simply put, Ryan Theriot is an overachiever. Although he certainly appears to be more of a natural second baseman, he’s established himself as being able to play the shortstop position at the major league level. Could he be better defensively? Yeah, sure. But I worry about him in the field a lot less than I used to. And if he can improve his baserunning and hit a few more doubles, he’ll be even better.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
But I worry about him in the field a lot less than I used to. And if he can improve his baserunning and hit a few more doubles, he’ll be even better.
Certainly, I agree with this.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I would love to have Roy Halladay for the remainder of his contract
That is if he becomes available and the interest from other teams isn’t too high. The cost of his contract is less than Peavy’s. He may have a no trade clause and he may want to stay with the Jays. The Jays are in first I believe so maybe a trade is out of the question. It would be great to have a pitcher as dominant as Halladay to go along with the others for the next couple years.
Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball
He is signed affordably for the next two years. The Jays are 10-4, and are playing well. The Cubs have one of the worst farm systems in baseball, so who the hell would they trade to get him?
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 21, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Bedard
I think Seattle will eventually fall out of the race in the AL West, making Bedard tradeable. He seems to be doing pretty well after last year’s surgery.
If he was with the Cubs, he wouldn’t have to deal with the pressure of being a #1 either, if that’s even a factor for him.
The answer is OBVIOUS
Brian Roberts
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 21, 2009 12:57 PM CDT reply actions
not Sam Fuld?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Felix Pie?
I hear he supposed to be good.
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
up until that game in Yankee Stadium
he was outhitting Mark DeRosa, and I think he’s still outhitting Milton Bradley.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Sam is a lefty
Good idea.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 21, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
i think this is a good topic
for July near the trade deadline
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Or, say, Nov. 1.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
that too
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
This year, for a change, I want the discussion to be
on bringing everyone back because they’re so great, etc.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I wanted to bring
everyone back last year. After the season was over, there was a post about what changes we wanted to see, and I said “None. Resign everyone.”
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
See, there is always that one change that needs to be made to get
to the next level, unless… well, I can’t say it/type it., but you know.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I suppose.
I remain unconvinced that this year’s team is actually better than last year’s team. And it doesn’t need to be — even if it’s a wash, this is a potential 97-win ballclub.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not certain anyone believes this
team is better than last year.
I like Fontenot, but DeRosa was better.
Dome/Bradley is an upgrade over Dome and Johnson/Edmonds, but how much?
Starting pitching looks about the same.
I much preferred the bullpen last year.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
you can't really say that DeRosa will be better....
last year most likely was his “career” year, but it is too early in the season to tell. What is more important, is that Fontenot is younger than DeRosa and that helps the ball club even though we lost some roster flexibility with the super sub DeRosa now being gone.
We're comparing
last year with this year.
I’ll go out on a limb and say I think DeRosa last year was better than my fav Fontenot will be this year.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
if anything Hendry
did something unusual in Cubslore by trading a year early instead of a year late
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Why did you want everyone to resign? Then they'd have to hire a whole new organization.
/sarcasm
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I saw that and elected to let it go. I was afraid the robot on the
ledge would appear again.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
ar ar ar
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
You thought you told you not to laugh at my own jokes before . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
look, if there's one thing I've told myself,
it’s that there are always exceptions to my rules, especially when I’m breaking them!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
listen, if I've told me once, I've told me 1000 times
don’t exaggerate
wait, what?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Could be sooner
Attendance numbers are already being discussed. Yeah, it’s early and yeah, it’s been cold.
It will be interesting to see what happens for teams that start to fall behind in the standings and at the gate.
It’s been mentioned before (prior to the start of ST), there were many teams who’s renewal rates for tickets were way down. If teams could not get their attendance back up quickly when it gets warmer they may think of pulling the plug sooner than normal. It’s those teams the Cubs may be able to negotiate something with assuming Ricketts OK’s the additional spend.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
I'm hoping the Tigers suck and
Verlander is available cheap and viewed as a reclamation project.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I'd like him to show a little consistancy before we go after him
Unless we give up dirt for him, he’s not worth the time
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Are you insane
Verlander is a proven major league player in his mid 20’s. His fastball this year is the fastest it has ever been, and his K:BB ratio is the best also. The reason he has struggled this year, is just bad luck.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 21, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Well...
I don’t know if the Cubs will do anything in the post season with only 3 good starting pitchers. It’s a legitimate concern. We all watched spring training and the first two weeks of games to know mostly what the Cubs starters are going to be all about.
This rain is making us all a little crazy… a good outing from Harden tonight or the next time he pitches might erase some of these fears. I would be really surprised if Harden turns it around this year, but I am rooting for him. If he pitches tonight, I will be there soaked and shivering in the bleachers- maybe he’ll throw a no no on the night they are giving away Big Z no no statues.
Next thing you know people will be talking about dealing Harden for Peavy straight up.
who are the two pitchers
who aren’t “good”?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok you got me,
Wrong word choice. I was referring to Harden and Marshall as being well… I’ll bite my tongue because the jury is still out on everyone this early in the season.
ok.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok you got me.
Wrong word choice. I was referring to Harden and Marshall as being well… I’ll bite my tongue because the jury is still out on everyone this early in the season.
Harden got into trouble with walks last week, but he still has 18 strikeouts in 9 IP this year. I think we can give him a longer leash than 2 starts right?
by Seattle Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
one would hope.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
that's sick
If he does that all year, than he will be the best pitcher in baseball… again.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 21, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
he got another 8
last night, pitching six innings. 26 strikeouts in 15 ip.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Is this fanpost about the 2009 rotation or the 2010 rotation?
If it’s the latter, I wouldn’t be surprised to see us have this rotation –
Carlos Zambrano
Ryan Dempster
Ted Lilly
Jeff Samardzija
Aaron Heilman
If it’s the former, I’ll predict we add Kevin Millwood mid-season.
Derrek Lee is good.
Wanna bet $50 that goes to Cubs Care?
I say Milwood ain’t coming to Chicago
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
to pitch for the Cubs...
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Not a betting man;
and if I was, betting on a predicted trade two weeks into the season would be the definition of longshot. I’m just throwing out a prediction, considering that 1) Millwood will be available; 2) he will be affordable for the Cubs; 3) he would provide innings and winnable ballgames down the stretch if the Cubs pitching corps was worn out.
Derrek Lee is good.
Fair enough
I don’t see them getting outside starting pitching, though, unless it’s . . . well, you know.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 22, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions
It strikes me
that we were very fortunate with our pitching health last year. This year, we have a lot of risk in the rotation.
If they stay healthy, Z, Lilly, and Dempster can give us 200 innings. But would you bet all three will stay healthy?
We can be fairly sure that Harden and Marshall will not combine for 300 innings. Jeff Samardzija will get a chance to step up and fill the void when one of those two goes down.
But what happens if two of our five go down at the same time? Aaron Heilman is now an important part in Lou’s ‘pen. So, who’s left on the depth chart after Samardzija?
Derrek Lee is good.
Ok, can I qualify my last comment, then?
I don’t see them getting outside starting pitching unless it’s an ace-caliber pitcher barring injury.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 22, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
But can we afford ace-caliber?
And that’s a doubly-intended meaning there. On the one hand, our farm system is not well respected, so we may not have the prospect pieces to get anyone other than a guy who says he’ll use his NTC to block going to all teams but the Cubs. On the other hand, our new owner’s wallet may not be so fat. I can see the prospect-price on a top-tier pitcher being lower because the salary is too high. Let’s say, for example, that Toronto falls out and tells teams they will trade Halladay but only if you take on Vernon Wells’ contract, too. The Cubs could have enough prospects to get into that bidding, but could we afford the $$$ pricetag?
All that said, all it takes is for one GM to believe in the farm pieces we do have and it doesn’t matter what respect our farm system is given by sports writers.
Derrek Lee is good.
On the second point, yeah, you're right -- the writer/fan opinion doesn't matter
On the first — well, I did my part by opening a TD Ameritrade account last month . . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 22, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
And you'll have it up to $25 million by...?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
As soon as GE hits $125,000
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 22, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
That is a very thin rotation
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 21, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Kevin Millwood?
Who is almost 35? Who has had ONE season ERA under 4.00 since 2002?
No thanks.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
You're better than Trachsel was in 2007
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 22, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions
why not
Shark and Marshall?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, really. What happened to Sean Marshall?
Do you think he’ll be traded?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I think Heilman got the same deal Dempster got a few years back.
“Stay in the ’pen this year. You will get your shot next year.”
As for Marshall, I think Cotts and the ability to skip the 5th man are short-circuiting his shot. I think that when Marshall moves to the ’pen this year, he is going to be very good and become too important to move out of the ’pen.
It’s not that I don’t like Marshall – I do.
Derrek Lee is good.
I guess that could happen.
I certainly thought Heilman had the inside slot on a rotation spot (hey, that rhymes) when he was signed. At this point, though, it’s hard for me to believe Lou would put a guy who’s capable of being a decent No. 4- to No.5-level starter in the bullpen. Seems like a waste, to be honest. Plus, Sean allows the Cubs to have two lefties in the rotation, which I think Lou likes as well.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Peavy got lit up like a roman candle tonight by the Giants and took his first loss of the season
So somebody who gets a lot of strikeouts and has an ERA under 5 would be ideal.
After tonight, Harden is tied for 2nd in strikeouts with three others (Halladay, Peavy, Greinke) at 26. Johan Santana in first with 27 strikeouts.
Of all the above mentioned, Harden is about 10 innings behind the other guys. That’s kind of good and bad at the same time. Most of those guys are nearing 25-30 innings after either 3 or 4 games. Harden hasn’t cracked 20 innings over the 3 games he’s played.
if Harden continues to throw this well and starts going deeper into games like he did today, I would say the cubs should definitely try to re-sign him before Nov.
Oh and to answer your question directly, the obvious answer right now is Roy Halladay but good luck getting him out of Toronto any time soon.
But what I was getting at is...
Sorry- I went on a Harden tangent there. I guess I am saying really that if Harden continues to pitch well don’t worry about trading for a Peavy-type in Nov. just sign the Harden and work on strengthening the bullpen.
even if Harden
had pitched 6 innings in his weird start last week, he STILL wouldn’t be over 20 innings. 6*3=18.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Spitballing Some Names...
Looking at some teams likely to struggle and future SP FAs…
Jake Westbrook
Cliff Lee
Chien Ming Wang (if his struggles continue)
Jeremy Bonderman (depending on health)
Erik Bedard
Longshots include Roy Halladay and Matt Cain. I don’t think the Cubs have enough in the upper minors to get a deal involving either pitcher done, although I think the farm system is on the rebound and could have some enticing pieces of trade bait come the trade deadline.
Also, considering how bad Cotts has been, a LHP RP like Jamie Walker or Mike Gonzalez will probably be on the radar.
I'm leaning more towards Halladay
Even though he’s 4 years older, the durability thing is less of an issue and his contract runs out sooner.
It’s whether or not the Jays stay in it for awhile and whether or not the economy will be hitting them harder than any US-based team.
The added benefit of another starter coming here is Marshall can be that solid southpaw in the ’pen plus spot-start.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
in the authors defense
Hendry has always made moves and tried to improve as the season goes along. It is not crazy to expect more of the same this year.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Pedro
Why not pedro martinez? He’s looking for a job, and I’m sure he could be had for way below the asking price of $5M if you do an incentive-laden thing. I’m quite concerned about this year’s rotation if somebody goes down. And somebody WILL go down.
If not Peavy, Who?
Sure, but he’s really more of a cricket player.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 22, 2009 9:35 PM CDT reply actions
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