When will Lee be moved down the lineup order?
by Steve Sax on Apr 21, 2009 1:59 AM CDT
136 comments
There are lots of early concerns about this years Cubs team...the pen's lack of control, Soriano leading off does not maximize his production, deeper starts from the rotation are a must, can Dome keep it alive? Bradley's health, Bradley's mouth, The Riot's D.
The truth is we're off to a great start thanks mostly to Soriano and Fukudome's performances. The real problem I think is DLee. I would never suggest that he gets benched; that would be stupid just cause he's not an all star doesn't mean he sucks and we know that his D is top notch, BUT there's no way that he should be batting Third over ARam. It takes lots of ABs away from a superior hitter. Even if Lee picks it up ARam will still be better in the 3hole and the team will score more runs.
DLee will be okay offensively and he will be moved down in the batting order. the question is when?
The Cubbies so far look good and when they heat up as a unit ITS ON LIKE DONKEY KONG!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
1 recs |
136 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Batting where he is in the order didn't seem to hurt A-Ram on Saturday.
I wish people would stop obsessing over batting order positions. The team is winning, and D-Lee is off to a slow, but not horrendous start.
The answer, anyway, is that Lou seems comfortable with Lee in the 3 spot and so we can post about this from now to eternity, but he’s not going to be moved.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2009 3:57 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
It Didn't hurt ARam Sat but losing an extra 50-80 at bats in the end will hurt ARam and the Cubs
Batting 5th=less plate appearences.
Al, if you were the manager would you bat Lee third?
Life is a crazy game of poker
by Steve Sax on Apr 21, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, because the team is winning with him there.
I think far too much time is taken up on this site discussing lineups.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 22, 2009 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
When was the last time a manager made a major change to the lineup when the team was winning? That’s a good way to get a quick ticket out of town. You never screw with the lineup when the team is playing well. Common sense tells you that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Besides, if the team can win with Lee,Soto and Milton struggling, wouldn’t they do better if they were hitting? As it is, you can allow them to find their strokes without shaking things up. Isn’t that the best way to get better?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 22, 2009 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I remember, DL (was) is a notoriously slow starter...
We knew this when we got him years ago. He overcame it for a few seasons, but seems to have settled back into the slow startup mode. If Lou isn’t worried about it, neither am I…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Apr 21, 2009 7:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If this is the case...
Last year was a exception. He looked amazing in April last year. Batting .371 with 8 HRs and 23 RBIs
by D-rose on Apr 21, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, May and August are Lee's down months
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on Apr 21, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From today's Trib re: D-Lee
“While he is hitting only .217, he has been energetic and driving the ball deep into the outfield in five games at Wrigley Field, and the results are a .381 average, two doubles and five RBIs.”
If It Takes Forever ....
by wrigley1 on Apr 21, 2009 7:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I can think of at least two warning track shots.
Not sure if that’s a good thing or bad thing.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Apr 21, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee is known
for warning track shots. He needs an extra biscuit for breakfast and those shots are gone.
Life is a crazy game of poker
by Steve Sax on Apr 21, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe? Joe Morgan? Is that you?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ozborne, Ozborne Cox?
Life is a crazy game of poker
by Steve Sax on Apr 23, 2009 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My reaction when I saw this headline:
When will these posts go away?
At least for a while. See wrigley1’s comment above.
By the way, per Al’s comment — HE’S NOT GOING TO BE MOVED!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 7:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for saying that
I could not agree more. If it’s late May and he’s hitting below his weight, then let’s talk. Maybe.
by Woodstock on Apr 21, 2009 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or if we're in 1st place, don't mess with it
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on Apr 21, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One other point...
Bradley will get more pitches to hit with A-Ram behind him.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Apr 21, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Very true, my real concern is who
protects Ramirez. I would prefer to see Soto in that spot, but Lou likes his LRLR combinations.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Apr 21, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he retires or is traded
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Apr 21, 2009 8:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or if Pinella retires
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on Apr 21, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or if Pinella is traded
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Apr 21, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To the Yankees for Girardi and ARod.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just threw up in my mouth.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yuck...
drew, spit it out.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Apr 21, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yo, JIMMAY!
TWSS.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yo drew...
man, this post about moving Lee is almost as much torture as having to wait until tonight for another game!
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Apr 21, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope
they play tonight. Even if it means Al has a cold butt.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cold rear be damned!
We need a game before we all start gettin’ the shakes from Cubbie withdrawal…
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Apr 21, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must say, I didn't expect to see a discussion about Al's ass on BCB today
Guesses as to how long it takes for someone to start a fanpost?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much more time
can we give Al’s Ass before it’s too cold, and has to be moved from the bleachers to a sky box?
If not Al’s Ass, then who?
Al’s Ass Group Apology Post
Rosenthal reports on ex-Al’s Ass Turdmonds, Gauturd.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say that you made me laugh out loud
But it’s bad form to laugh at one’s own jokes, mambochicken!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, this thread got really, really strange.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al!
what do you say to reports that your ass is being traded to the Padres for a used infield rake and a pair of underwear to be named later?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if we get Jake Peavy's used infield rake.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, for a pitcher, he can really rake
Not like this guy, though
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The triumphant return of...
Everyday Ray!
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Apr 21, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does his "BK" signature...
stand for Burger King?
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Apr 21, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stuff myself thyself.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HA.
+ 1000 BCB points to you sir, for creativity…
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Apr 21, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look, guys, Al's ass may be cold...
…but it’s frickin’ April. Give him a few more games to heat up.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you suggesting Al's ass will be hot in the future?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um...
… I decline to answer on the ground of… well, I don’t have one, but I still decline to answer.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't have a ass?
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on Apr 21, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Sally Struthers
Today, we’re going to talk about one man… a proud man… a sad man… a man who has no ass…
Won’t you help?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is getting good.
Today on Springer: Men who have no ass, and the women who love them…
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Apr 21, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's the sequel to his show
Men who are all ass, and the women who love them.
Featured some guy who played second base in college. :P
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Graphic Nerd Alert!
It appears this man’s butt crack is on the inside of him.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Apr 21, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHA
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 21, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me guess...
He played second base at NIU? LOL.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Apr 21, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, it's supposed to be upper 70s on Friday.
Naturally, the Cubs will be in St. Louis.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However, lower 70's on Thursday for the home game.
At least we get ONE nice day.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
THIS IS NOT A COMMENT ABOUT AL'S ASS.
Oh, wait, yes it is.
TOTALLY BOGUS ASS NEWS!
How long should we give sig lines at the bottom of the comments?
Bradley watch -- out 3 games of 11
by znohitter on Apr 21, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bogus is right.
I’ll never tell.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al's ass was seen recently on a beach with one of Ron Santo's hairpieces.
(According to Buster Olney.)
How long should we give sig lines at the bottom of the comments?
Bradley watch -- out 3 games of 11
by znohitter on Apr 21, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is Bogass
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 21, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Butt ALass...
all good things must come to an end.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In most Major League lineups isn't
the best hitter the 3rd hitter in the line-up?
by cubdreamer on Apr 21, 2009 9:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily.
Depends on the lineup.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't there some computer analysis
that determined the optimized lineup had your 5th best hitter batting 3rd?
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on Apr 21, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'll be moved
when Lou decides to move him. Just like with Soriano.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 9:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In other words, NEVER!
Bwahaha!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and soon,
our nefarious schemes will come to fruition! hahahh… hahahahahahah…. HAAAA HAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Ahem.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, now this HAS to be a parody post!
Right? Right?!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2009 10:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Megan Fox wears a whipped cream bikini
for my next birthday party.
That’s when Lee gets moved.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Apr 21, 2009 10:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Where's the party?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When donkeys fly!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2009 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Blagojevich, is that you?
remember
Sammy Jankis
by neverAcquiesce on Apr 21, 2009 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The pic above? It could be
Since he told Mell to kiss his grits . . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe...
I was referencing this, though.
remember
Sammy Jankis
by neverAcquiesce on Apr 21, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I figured it was 50/50
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could be.
He’s got a lot of time on his hands before that reality show starts shooting. Let’s ask him if he wants to bat Soriano third.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the D Lee haters are so boring at this point...
Per ‘wrigley 1’s’ comments: he has been hitting the ball pretty well since returning home—381, but alas certain Cubs fans must stand by and mock him unceremoniously and, frankly, without a lot of real definitive evidence.
Furthermore, when he was slumping on the road during the first week of the season he was one, either lifting the ball to the warning track or, two, rolling over on the fast ball and pounding it either in the direction of the shortstop or third baseman. From a swing mechanics standpoint, he was either a hair on top or a hair on the bottom of the baseball through the strike zone.
Since being home he has straightened out the swing and now seems to be driving the ball. This should be a cause for celebration to those worried about his first week, or those who spent the whole off-season bitching about his jumping the shark, for this means that mechanically he is starting to find a groove. Add this to the fact that he is traditionally a slow starter and you begin to see why this D. Lee nonsense is so boring and uninspiring.
So maybe he won’t hit as many home runs as he once did, but he will protect Aramis in the same way he always has and he will once again be an extremely productive player at the plate no matter what formulaic drivel folks utter to the contrary.
Leave the guy alone and enjoy how he plays the game. It is a treat and one day this same posting community will cry woe when he is no longer a member of this organization.
Better yet, ask any major league pitcher whether or not Derrick Lee, when he steps into the box, is over rated and past his prime.
Enough!
.253/.308/.293
by jesus figeroa on Apr 21, 2009 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Well stated.
Whose numbers are in your sig line?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus's of course...
eventhough i misspelled his last name which should read…Figueroa.
.253/.308/.293
by jesus figeroa on Apr 21, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhhh, but of course.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they would be better if Cerrano could help him hit a curveball...
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee will be given...
…ample opportunity to show he is still capable of being a 3 hitter on this club, and I think he has earned that.
With that said, if it becomes clear in mid to late May that he is not the best 3 hole option, Lou will make a move. What that move is will depend on a variety of things (how well Fontenot & Bradley are doing).
IMO, if Bradley is healthy and hitting the way he can, he is the best pure 3 hitter on the club. The problem is Lou won’t will want to sandwhich Lee and Ramirez between a lefty, and Fontenot would be the only logical choice (Bradley, Ramirez, Fontenot, Lee). Whether Fontenot could give Ramirez ample protection remains to be seen, so it would probably be Ramirez in the 3 hole, Bradley 4th and Lee going to the 5 hole.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Apr 21, 2009 12:26 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
That's my point
Flip Lee and Aram for a better lineup
Life is a crazy game of poker
by Steve Sax on Apr 21, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to just go down these FanPosts today and type...
…“oh for god’s sake” in each of them.
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Apr 21, 2009 12:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
At least make it a haiku
Or precede it with two lines that rhyme
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now, by George, I think you've got it!
All these Fan Posts are quite full of sh
Oh, for God’s sake.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Theriot is hitting at such a high average with such a high OBP
People find the need to knock DLee even more, because a hater is always a hater, so if they dont get a chance to stab at Theriot.. then they got DLEE to stab at. Lee is a SOLID fielder, an above average hitter, and a good guy.. hell come around
Don't assault me and I won't assault you, because you don't know what I will, or won't, do. I'm going to end it with that. - Milton Bradley 2003 to Paul Lo Duca
by SouthsideCUBSfan on Apr 21, 2009 12:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm hardly a hater
I’m actually a DLee fan I just don’t think that he belongs third in the lineup.. Never once have I bashed Lee if you read my post.
Life is a crazy game of poker
by Steve Sax on Apr 21, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the post that never ends
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on Apr 21, 2009 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Come inside, come inside . . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That took 20 minutes longer than I expected.
tick . . . tick . . . tick
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 21, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TWSWTS
thats what she wants to say
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 21, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw it but took a pass.
Beneath my highly advanced TWSS skillz.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just like
Soriano will never bat anywhere else but leadoff….D-Lee will always be in the three hole. The sooner we can accept this the better.
by BadDecisions on Apr 21, 2009 1:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Your user name does not inspire confidence in your opinions.
How long should we give sig lines at the bottom of the comments?
Bradley watch -- out 3 games of 11
by znohitter on Apr 21, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he Bud Seilig?
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Apr 21, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Its getting really old reading every day/week, people’s opinions on what the batting order should be. We are hardly into the season, and everyone is freaking out about Dlee, or the bullpen, or the starting pitching. Give this team some time. If Lee continues to preform sub-par, maybe Bradley in the 3 hole??? And no I’m not Selig, just a disguntled BCB’er.
by BadDecisions on Apr 21, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BadDecisions
is a lifestyle…That is all.
by BadDecisions on Apr 21, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 22, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW, I think you made a good decision with that particular comment.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 21, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree.
Lou will move Lee if he doesn’t perform.
The problem is the people who a) are ready to judge a guy before he’s played two full weeks of games, and b) who aren’t really even paying attention to how he looks at the plate.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on Apr 21, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not judging based on 2weeks
Last year is also a pretty good indicator of what to expect. That being said I think Lee’s good but not great. In the end batting third instead of ARam takes the bat away from the better hitter at least 50 times in the coarse of the season.
Life is a crazy game of poker
by Steve Sax on Apr 21, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to know how you figure...
Lee is the ideal #3 hitter on this team. Ramirez does not have the wheels to be a #3 hitter. Your incessant harping on the line-up, thinking you know better; is annoying. Lee is starting to drive the ball, so leave it alone. It’s old, Lou isn’t going to change it, and you really sound like a kid saying it over and over again.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Apr 21, 2009 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is
That the #3 spot isn’t even where you’re best hitter should bat. He should be batting either 2nd or 4th. The reason for that being the #3 hitter actually comes up with 2 outs and nobody on more than any other player in the lineup, while the #4 hitter hits with the most runners on base, and the #2 hitter will have more at bats over the course of the season. Lee is actually an ideal 3 hitter, because he still gets on base a lot and hits a lot of singles, despite the drop in power. Doing you’re lineup the sabermetric way, leads to something like this:
1) Fukudome
2) Bradely
3) Lee
4) Ramirez
5) Soriano
6) Fontenot
7) Soto
8) Pitcher
9) Theriot
You could switch Soriano and Lee, or Fontenot and Soto, and it would have a negligible affect. Overall, lineup construction really doesn’t matter that much. The difference between the best possible lineup, and the worst one (like the pitcher batting 4th), is only about 15 runs over the course of a full season. So fretting over where Lee bats is probably really stupid, especially 12 games into the season.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 21, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually kinda like that lineup...
…not that there’s a snowball’s chance in hell that Lou would ever do it, but…
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 22, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
15 runs over the coarse of a season
is equal to 15 potential Ws that’s why I think the order is so important…Otherwise guys like Pujols and Manny would bat 8th and why not bat Theriot 4th?
Life is a crazy game of poker
by Steve Sax on Apr 23, 2009 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
15 runs =/= 15 wins.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 23, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
15 runs equals roughly 1.5 wins
what the hell are you talking about?
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 23, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And order isn't important but it is still worthwhile to do
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 23, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no way that Lees slow ace is faster than Rami
both have at best average speed. I’m glad you’re annoyed, if you don’t like this fanpost go to another. Obviously you keep disagreeing about the matter over and over so wee all sound like kids.
Life is a crazy game of poker
by Steve Sax on Apr 23, 2009 1:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially with that spelling
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 23, 2009 6:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Last year"?
When you say “last year” do you mean the entire year, or like many anti-Lee fan(atic)s in Cubdom, do you really mean, last year minus the first 6 weeks and minus the post-season? Or if you’re willing to accept the whole year, why not look at his entire career? And if you’re looking at his entire career, and at Aramis’ entire career, and projecting from that data, then you end up expecting very similar hitters this season, with Lee having an edge on Aramis in OBP and Aramis having an edge on Lee in SLG.
And if you buy that – Lee hitting something like, .293/.376/.494 and Aramis something like, .296/.366/.524 (those are their CHONE projections), then swapping them is first of all – negligible. But, secondly, if we’re going to work with small differences, then it doesn’t really make sense to take the guy with a higher OBP and move him down for a guy with a higher SLG. Don’t you want that SLGer hitting with as many men on base as possible? Don’t you run the risk of wasting that OBP if there’s no one left to drive that OBP in?
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on Apr 22, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes! I love this posting!!
Move him down the lineup already!
by smitster2008 on Apr 22, 2009 10:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is this a parody comment?
Because we don’t like those either.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 22, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a batting coach
And I’m not a D lee Hater, and have been happy to see DP Lee this year. However, I think his open stance is now counterproductive. He seems to swinging against himself which is causing alot of his lack of power issues. Maybe if he starts closed he won’t be fighting himself on his swing. Either way, your big man in the middle of your lineup shouldn’t be consistenly fouling off or weakly hitting hitters pitches during hitters counts.
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Apr 22, 2009 10:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about driving two fly balls to the warning track that would have been gone on a windless night?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 22, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+10
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 22, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derrek Lee has been in meaningful decline phase for awhile now
When I pointed this out in the past the statement was largely ridiculed. But all one has to do is to look at his at-bats. He has even started to try and guess when the fastball will be thrown, which leads him to then cheat up in the batter box. Lee can’t get around on a good fastball anymore and is a sucker for the outside breaking ball.
Why he is still batting # 3 is unfathomable. Yes, the Cubs are winning and scoring runs. But that should still be no excuse for Lee maintaining position in the most important spot in a lineup.
Pretty soon it will be time to also start playing Micah Hoffpauir a couple games a week at 1st base. Lee is turning into Moses.
by BLou on Apr 22, 2009 1:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You may be right...
…but it’s stil pretty early, no? He had a couple deep fly outs last night – one of which would’ve easily been a home run on most other days (or nights). He also drew a walk. Derrek seems to be hitting the ball in the air a little more. Assuming I’m reading baseball-reference correctly, he’s hit 10 ground balls, 11 fly balls and 4 line drives so far this season. I think his audition to retain the No. 3 spot is still ongoing.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 22, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moses batting 3rd would be awesome.
He could, like, part the infielders so that the ball could pass through for hits. And when in the dugout, he could lift his arms with Aaron (Heilman) holding his arms up and we would always win as long as his arms were up. And if an umpire blew a call, he could have the field open up and swallow him into the ground. Also, since he lived so long, I bet his peak would be way past age 27.
How long, by the way, has Derrek Lee been in a meaningful decline phase? When did it start?
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on Apr 22, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
he could carry the rules of baseball around on stone tablets. Drop them on the ump when they blow strike calls.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he would have had
two homeruns yesterday, save for teh wind. He can still put a knock on the ball.
If Micah Hoffpauir is starting at first base “a couple games a week”, we’re not going to the post-season.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's just as well....
it’s too cold to play in October anyway.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 22, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+/- 32 degrees
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 22, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about Lee's AB yesterday
Still not sure why starting Hoffpauir makes the team less likely to win.
The guy has been locked in and absolutely mashing the ball for 2 and a half years now…. and the wind that knocked down Lee’s high drives last night also knocked down one of Hoff’s would-be HR. (It couldn’t knock down the other.)
It is just his age? Because if Hoffpauir were 25, he’d be the best hitting prospect this team had produced in decades. At 29, he only has a few years left of his prime – if that – so his career contributions to the Cubs are obviously limited. But if he’s hitting now, why hold his age against him?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Apr 22, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his hitting is fine.
it’s his mitt I have worries about.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 22, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Micah Hoffpauir strikes out in a third of his plate appearances.
How in the world do you think that he’d be a better hitting prospect than Josh Vitters if Hoff was 25? A batter who strikes out in a third of his PAs is not particularlty promising even at age 25.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on Apr 22, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He absolutely does not. And you know it.
His K-rate in 2007 was below 10%, and it was 16% last year.
I can only assume that you’re referring to his k-rate during his call-ups last year, to which I will politely point out the insanely small sample sizes we are dealing with, and note that he achieved said k-rate while pasting major league pitching for a .400 OPB and a .900+ OPS.
Again, small sample sizes. If you’re going to diminish Hoff’s accomplishments by crying out “small sample size”, you sure as heck can’t point to his k-rate over exactly the same amount of at-bats as damning in any way.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Apr 22, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And while I'm at it -
Josh Vitters, for all his talent, is (hopefully) making his first successful turn at A-Peoria.
If Hoffpauir was a 25-year old coming off consecutive .917 and 1.145 OPS seasons at AAA, and now posting 100 AB of .350+ hitting in the bigs, yes, he’d be a bigger deal than a 19-year old with 5 professional HR who we are all hoping will someday slug over .500, and who had a really nice season at short-season Boise.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Apr 22, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And while I'm at it, too -
Your whole argument is living in a dreamland; it’s akin to saying, “If Hoffpauir was a reindeer, he’d lead Santa’s sleigh.” How do you even respond to an argument like that – not only is Micah not a reindeer, there is no Santa sleigh.
Propspects are graded relative to their age because the baseball community has long established that age matters when comparing these players. It’s why players lie about their ages. Sure, there are exception, players who develop late and we can all hope that Micah Hoffpauir is one of those rare exceptions.
But back to the point – prospect ratings are based on scouting reviews, which is why, yes, a 19 year-old with the tools he shows, with his eye, with his bat speed, with his approach, is still going to outrank Swing-n-miss Micah. It’s not even close.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on Apr 22, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why does Brett Wallace outrank Vitters?
He is basically the same as Hoff, but he is younger and plays a little better defense.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 22, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace "basically the same as Hoff"?
Is this St. Louis guerrilla misinformation tactics? If not, I’ll trade you Hoff for Wallace and throw in Jake Fox, who is basically the same as Hoff, but younger and, well, he plays more positions at least.
Seriously, Hoff and Wallace are the same if your only criteria are hits-doesn’t-catch. In fact, their widely different plate approaches highlight precisely the thing that makes me doubt Micah’s long-term success. Scouts already call Wallace’s approach big-league ready; he knows what he’s looking for in an AB, instead of just swinging at whatever he sees first.
Besides, and this is my main point, age is of great importance in the scouting lists. You can’t just whisk this away, as if it’s only a matter of shelf-life, like you were buying a carton of milk. The age of the prospect impacts the prospect’s value at many levels. Look at Fernando Martinez. He outranked Wallace and Vitters on BA’s top 100, while his raw stats in 2007 and 2008 might seem unimpressive. What’s impressive is that he’s posted those lines as a 20 year old and younger.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on Apr 22, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When we're talking about Micah's approach at the plate
sample sizes aren’t quite as relevant. All you have to do is watch him in the handful of games we’ve seen him in and know, this is a guy who will swing at a pitch-out someday. In AAA, he’ll get away with that. In the majors, he’s going to need the coverage of a Vlad Guerrero to get away with swinging at everything.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on Apr 22, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OOOOH! OOOOOOH! PICK ME!!!!!
I know the answer!
Today, April 24th!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 24, 2009 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
