Clogging the bases

by tharr on Apr 28, 2009 7:04 PM CDT

Since the game last Tuesday against the Reds where the team took 7 walks and won 7-2, the team has reverted to the days of Dustball. we've lost 5 of 6. In those games we drew only 9 walks and. After the start of the season when we drawing over 5 per game and winning, our numbers have dropped off the table.

We're not getting deep into other team's bullpens and we're constantly behind. Our BA with RISP is .230 and that includes a game we went 7-18. We're 13th in the league in pitches seen. While it's still very early, it's time to go back to basics.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

Tweet Comment 33 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

i'm at the mercy of pat & ron so i have to ask

are the cubs being more impatient or have pitchers caught on to our schtick and now just hammer the strike zone?

the pink hat guy is my father

by joeschmitt on Apr 28, 2009 7:20 PM CDT reply actions

Haren

didn’t throw many balls last night. But it did seem like some Cubs — Soto and Johnson and LBR in particular — were pressing yesterday.

Today, LBR did just fine. Soto didn’t play, and ReJo was a late-inning replacement.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Apr 28, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Dusty is probably the one manager

Who can actually screw up a team’s performance that badly. Good luck.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 28, 2009 7:24 PM CDT reply actions

Many of those walks were Bradley's

Oh wait, he’s Satan. Never mind.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Apr 28, 2009 7:33 PM CDT reply actions

+21

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 28, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions

+666

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. - Dave Barry

by zm1217 on Apr 28, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Part of the problem is the lineups we've had out there.

Once Bradley and Ramirez return this should solve itself.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 28, 2009 7:50 PM CDT reply actions

I think it's a function of 3 main guys:

Lee, Bradley, and Soto.

Bradley it’s been health.

Lee, could be health.

Soto? Doesn’t he have an injured hand or something going on with his hand?

Dome, Soriano, Theriot, Fontenot, have good or excellent OBP.

I think it’s something that should improve as key guys get healthy and get going.

by DudeVf11 on Apr 28, 2009 7:50 PM CDT reply actions

hand and shoulder IIRC

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 28, 2009 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions

A lot of this is a function of

who’s pitching.

Cueto, Harang and Haren pounded the strike zone. Swinging at bad pitches is one thing. Swinging at good pitches is somethign else.

I don’t have a problem with swinging early in the count if the pitches are there. Otherwise you’re standing there with the bat on your shoulder watching strikes go by.

Now, if the Cubs were swinging wildly at plenty of pitches out of the strike zone, I think you’d have a point.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 28, 2009 8:00 PM CDT reply actions

OH

and I do believe even with this “rash” of walkless innings, the Cubs are still third in bases on balls in the league. So chill out.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 28, 2009 8:02 PM CDT reply actions

Chill out? Really?

There was nothing irrational in the FanPost. It pointed out a very rational connection – the team has stopped walking and stopped winning prior to tonight. The connection is a relevant discussion point. The post was not angry, not irrational, and not incorrect. And yet you are telling him/her to chill out.

I agree that unnecessary pessimism is annoying. But so is overaggressive (and often misplaced) crusade against anything the least bit not positive. If you can stick with attacking the true ledge-jumpers and lay off the legitimate discussion, that’d be nice.

by SouthernCub on Apr 28, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions

You're really starting to bug me

I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove, but lay off already. I won’t comment on your posts if you wont’ comment on mine. Deal?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions

I think what I'm trying to prove is obvious...

Sometimes you go a bit overboard in attacking people for anything remotely negative as though it is irrational ledge jumping – even when the post is far from it. This was an example of that, in my opinion. And just as I’m apparently annoying you, what you’re doing is annoying to me.

The team has faced a couple of good pitchers and a couple of not good pitchers in the last six games, and the walks weren’t there. A big part of that is our biggest BB guy (Bradley) was out. He’s back, and that will help a lot. Another part of it was that Haren was great. Cueto is not the strike-throwing machine that Haren is (gave up 6 BB against Houston, for example).

I agree with you that the struggling offense is going to be a short-term thing. But the patience hasn’t been there (for a variety of reasons), and the runs haven’t scored. They even talked about it in the pre-game, so it’s not an inane topic of discussion. The post did not deserve the “chill out” comment. Your first post illustrated your disagreement. The second post was unnecessary in my view. That was my point.

I don’t have a problem with attacking ledge jumpers. I do have a problem with telling people to chill out when it’s not necessary. I don’t point it out when you do it to ledge jumper posts, but I’ll continue to do it when I think you’re out of line. And you can feel free to point out whenever you disagree with me – I can take it, and I think it can actually encourage productive conversation, so long as people avoid unnecessary attacks/insults.

by SouthernCub on Apr 29, 2009 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions

slight edit...

the patience hasn’t been there for the past six games… before anyone goes back to the “we’re third in the league in walks” argument (which is actually inaccurate – we’re 7th in the league in walks).

by SouthernCub on Apr 29, 2009 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions

Whatever, SC

I thought it was an extremely mild rebuke, and I thought the original post also was trying to find something that really wasn’t there. I disagree that the original post was “far from” ledge jumping. Maybe not as overt as some others, but …

I think Al’s post below is correct. The lack of walks was primarily because of good pitching. Other teams are allowed to have that occasionally, you know.

Thanks, however, for being my personal minder. I’ll extend you the same courtesy.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions

I have no problem with people calling me out when I'm out of line...

I’m sorry it bugs you so much when I the same to you.

by SouthernCub on Apr 29, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions

And the original post was far from ledge-jumping...

As I said, it appears that your tolerance for anything non-positive just seems really really low.

by SouthernCub on Apr 29, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions

Not true, SC

Irrational negativity is the problem, not anything non-positive. And I think you’re just hunting for something just to prove a point. What that point is is hard for me to discern.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions

And I don't think this fanpost was at all irrational...

it might or might not be correct, but it’s not irrational. There’s a big difference, which I the only reason I responded to your second post.

I’m not sure why you don’t see what my point is (whether or not you agree is another thing) – I’ve explicitly said it. I just wish you’d be a little more discerning in what you deem to be irrational negativity, as I think you include too much in that category.

by SouthernCub on Apr 29, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions

I really don't think

the coda of “So chill out” was really worth this much angst.

I think you know your stuff, but I think you might be guilty of a little overreaction, too.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions

we all can at times

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 29, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions

"Sometimes you go a bit overboard in attacking people for anything remotely negative"

Ditto.

by Orval Overall on Apr 29, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Fight fire with fire

And don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Cueto is not the strike-throwing machine that Haren is (gave up 6 BB against Houston, for example).

Usually, he’s not. That day, however, he was pretty on.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions

It was incorrect in assuming that the lack of walks was some collective effort by the

team to try to win games by trying to hit their way to wins. Walks require two things, the pitcher to throw the ball out of the strike zone and the batter to not swing at said pitch. The Cubs ran into some good pitching performances and most of the guys who had the high walk totals were on the bench. Don’t try to read into something that’s not necessisarily there. The Cubs have good patient hitters who will get their walks. Sometime you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you. That’s the nature of baseball. Things even out over time. Two or three games in a row don’t alwaysignal a trend.s

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 29, 2009 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions

Good points

and good post.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions

"But so is overaggressive (and often misplaced) crusade against anything the least bit not positive."

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.

by Orval Overall on Apr 29, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions

I'd suggest

you check the facts before you criticize. The team is 8th, not 3rd, in BB. And while you are free to present your own opinions, don’t tell me to chill out for suggesting things based upon the facts. The fact is that the team has had below par at bats recently and much has to do with their poor plate discipline.

Perhaps your rationale for lousy run production is bad luck. It’s also no coincidence that our pitchers are averaging more BB than anyone else in the NL and we’re losing games to teams we’re better than. And please tell me why we’re getting shut down by pitchers that are throwing strikes? It may interest you to know that if a hitter swings at a bad pitch or makes an out on something outside the strike zone, it’s still considered a strike.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Apr 30, 2009 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions

I did check them

And you know what? It’s so early in the season that it doesn’t take much for statistics to change. That’s the point.

Again, I’d suggest to you, regardless of what anybody else would say: Chill out.

I’d suggest when you get a bigger sample size to make a cogent argument, you try this again.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 30, 2009 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions

Tell me

what sample size will impress you? And would did discount trends because it’s continuing. I’ve seen too many teams get in bad habits and the problems are not addressed until the hill to climb is too steep. As soon as we’re back to playing up to our talent level I’ll chill. Until then I’ll continue to call out bad baseball.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Apr 30, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions

The Cubs walked six times last night.

I think the lack of walks discussed in the post was primarily due to good pitching. Happens from time to time.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 29, 2009 7:41 AM CDT reply actions

I agree.

I’m not particularly concerned about this just yet. And, walks or otherwise, I happily watched MANY Cubs get on base last night.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by daver on Apr 29, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions