Sunshine, Day Baseball Don't Help: Cubs Walk Ten, Give Up Ten To Arizona, Get Shut Out 10-0
by Al Yellon on Apr 29, 2009 5:37 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
Email
PrintLook at it this way: it's April 29, 20 games into the season, and the Cubs don't have to go back to Chase Field again this year.
Well, unless it's the playoffs and in that case I think we'd all be happy to go back there and get some revenge for today's 10-0 shutout at the hands of the D'backs.
Seriously. Looking at the slop that Doug Davis was throwing all day, you can do three things with it:
- Look at it land outside the strike zone
- Hit it a long, long way
- Swing and miss miserably
Unfortunately, today the Cubs selected choice 3. Davis barely threw more strikes than balls, but the Cubs had only two dinky little singles off him and he made the middle of the lineup look awful; the 3-4-5-6 hitters today did manage to draw three walks off Davis, but otherwise couldn't do a thing. Meanwhile, Ryan Dempster was channeling the 2001-vintage Dempster (you know, the guy who led the NL with 112 walks) with a 27-pitch first inning. Dempster threw six innings for the fifth consecutive start -- all five this year, in fact -- but allowed five earned runs and issued three walks, the fourth straight outing where he's walked at least three. Even though Dempster eventually wound up throwing 61 strikes in 97 pitches -- that's good -- the two extra-base hits (a double and homer) he gave up to Chad Tracy accounted for more than enough runs to win the game. Justin Upton put the game out of reach in the 7th inning with a bases-clearing double. (Wasn't it someone here who suggested the Cubs inquire about Tracy's availability, considering he can play third base?)
To add injury (possibly) to insult, Carlos Marmol looked terrible, throwing only five strikes in 22 pitches and walking four, including two with the bases loaded. Is the knee injury he suffered over the weekend worse than we could have imagined? And Kevin Gregg wasn't hurt and also issued three walks -- that was ten altogether for the staff today. That s ... well, that's not good.
The game-time temperature was reported as 88 degrees; I can't remember the last time I saw a regular season day game played -- by anyone -- in Phoenix with the roof open (I went to one, an exhibition game between the Cubs and D'backs before the 2003 season; during the Opening Day game in 2005 they had the roof open for the pregame ceremonies, but closed it for the game). Chase Field looks strange in sunshine.
Still, I am not concerned. Wait, that's not right. Yes, I am concerned. The Cubs have to get healthy -- and then they have to start scoring runs on a consistent basis. Milton Bradley, you can tell, is still not 100% -- he wasn't running at full strength going after Upton's double, and that has to be because his leg is still bothering him. Still, at this point I think he has to get out there and play. The Cubs are 10-10 -- that's .500 on the road, which is good; they didn't go over .500 in road games in 2008 until their sweep of the Brewers in Milwaukee in July. But their 4-4 mark at home isn't reflective of the talent this team has.
Enough for now. Tonight, go take a walk around your neighborhood or see a movie or do something else to forget about this awful game. The Cubs are home tomorrow and things have to get better.
Right?
425 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
That was a crappy game.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
I feel like I need a shower after todays game!
"I'll tell you what's helped me my entire life. I look at baseball as a game. It's something where people can go out, enjoy and have fun. Nothing more." - Harry Caray
Can I suggest
take in a minor league game?
Although for those in the Chicago area, you’ve only got 15 minutes to get out to Kane County before the game starts there.
Hmmm.
Rush hour traffic from my house? I think I could probably get there by 8:15 or so.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Boy
I’m glad i don’t live in Chicago…plus I can walk to our minor league stadium from my office if i was so inclined…
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Chattanooga
the Lookouts have a stadium down town, probably a mile from my office. I’m planning on catching a few games when the Smokies are in town
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Sounds great!
Post a report in the minor league recap when you go.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Definitely.
Love Josh’s minor league recaps.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Peoria Chiefs are in Burlington tonight
Could have forgone this game entirely and driven over there for it. Maybe even hit the casino. Wait, bad idea. Besides, I’ll hit Potawatomi when I see the big club in Milwaukee next week … :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Definitely post some recaps!
I have some scouting questions too if you’re so inclined. We’re starting to get some good Smokies reports.
by Josh Timmers on Apr 29, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Josh
My email is now in my profile, please feel free to send me your scouting questions. I will try to get to a game. I don’t know how “well trained” my eyes are, but I can tell you what I see.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I Love AT&T Field
I’ll be in Chattanooga for a day game between the Lookouts and Mobile Bay Bears on June 3 before going to Atlanta for a night game between the Cubs and Braves.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Im thinking
about going to one of the cubs games in atlanta that week. Not sure which one.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
you're lucky
No more minor league team here in Tucson. Sidewinders left here for Reno. An independent league will be starting here in a few weeks and will go and check that out but I don’t think the quality of ball will be very good.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by tucsoncubsfan on Apr 29, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
The Toros?
Should be fun. Cheap tickets. We haven’t had Toros in a long time.
Insert witty and/or humorous signature here.
They are bring back the Toros name
$5 tickets. Will certainly spend a few warm summer nights at Hi Corbett.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by tucsoncubsfan on Apr 30, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Meant to say "Bringing back"
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by tucsoncubsfan on Apr 30, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I’m looking forward to it — going to a few games with some Snakepitters.
Insert witty and/or humorous signature here.
When I lived in Des Moines I loved going to I-Cubs games
Back when Hee-Seop Choi, Bobby Hill, and Corey Patterson were still the Next Big Things.
"I'll tell you what's helped me my entire life. I look at baseball as a game. It's something where people can go out, enjoy and have fun. Nothing more." - Harry Caray
Ditto here...
… the yearly tour of Prior and Wood through Sec Taylor (or Principal Park or whatever it is now) was for sure a high point of my summer every year.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Apr 30, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I did even better
went to little league practice and ran the bases. I got to slide home! Gave the little bugger my spikes, too! HAH!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 29, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
My ankle is still smarting from that, thank you very much.
How long should we give sig lines at the bottom of the comments?
Bradley watch -- out 7 games of 20
I feel like I was run over by a truck today.
so I got my payback.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm actually surprised....
I would have figured I’d see at least seven “I’m done with the Cubs, throwing in the towel for rooting for baseball forever” after this game….none have popped up……yet lol
Chuck Norris is a Cubs fan...
I dont think
the haters from the last game thread have made it over yet…
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
SHHH!
Don’t tell them this is here. Let them calm down a bit first.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think they got all of it out of there systems in the first inning
and took off for parts unknown.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
i missed the first two game threads
but i can just imagine the hatred they had
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Yeah, and I'll admit I didn't handle their negativity as well as I should have
Sometimes I can’t help it. But just like the Cubs, none of us is perfect.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
it happens to the best of us
I find the best therapy after a game like this for me is to call any customer in Arizona tomorrow and harass them for money
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
In that case
You should have a record-setting day Thursday.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions
should have seen me when the Eagles knocked the Bears out of the playoffs
in 2002………
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I made it about as far as the roll call...
… before i had to be done with the whole thing. We are losing, players aren’t doing well, blah blah blah, i get it.
It turns out being more and more of a jerk is NOT proportionally related to the cubs scoring more and more runs.
: : : Shakes head in disgust : : :
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Apr 30, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm alright now
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
Couldn't one more person have paid to see this game?
Attendance was 26,999.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wow.
We got as many hits as the Pirates did today. And gave up nine more runs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
free bases will kill any team
even the best
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
at least the pitcher didn't homer against the Cubs today
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
man
this season has been very different then last season. The cubs seem to either have everyone clicking on offense or no one clicking in this games. ie the last two games a 11-3 win and a 0-10 loss. But i really do think that its all because of the opposing pitcher and lingering injuries. Sometimes you just have to as much as i hate to say it tip your cap to the opposition. But still I am still neither worried. This team is incredibly strong and will bounce back to win the division. There is SO MUCH baseball left. The cubs have an incredible line up and one of the best skippers in the game. So games like this hurt but more cubbies will be smiling in the future.
GO CUBS
Right on
Great attitude and I think the proper one for this time of year. Look forward, even Cubs fans cant be down on their team at every opportunity.
This team has serious flaws, so do the Yankees, Rays, Red Sox, Indians, White Sox, Angels, Athletics, Rangers, Mariners, Cardinals, Brewers, Pirates, Phillies, Mets etc. its only a matter of time before the fatally flawed teams fall from contention and the minorly flawed teams rise to the top.
There are things to be concerned about, but if anyone thinks that Lou and Jim Hendry are not looking at addressing those concerns they have not watched this team the last few years. Our concerns in a month most likely will be completely different than they are now. The guys who are going to come around will and the rest will find homes elsewhere.
Anyways, great hanging out with you guys today. I am going home.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
One thing Lou and Hendry have shown
is that they are willing to fix things and address concerns.
This won’t be like 2005, when Dusty had Patterson lead off for three months even though it was apparent he couldn’t hack it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
It does seem...
that we are either all hot/all cold. My memory may be exaggerating it, but I feel like last year we always had one or two guys who would step in and lift the team whenever everyone else was struggling overall.
Obviously it’d be great if we could find that magic again…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Apr 29, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
No, for the most part that was true
There was that stretch in September that was a lot like this one, however. I guess the big difference is that came at the end of the season and this is coming at the start of it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
It’s funny—though not surprising I guess— how the placement of a streak (good or bad) really impacts how people react to it.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Apr 29, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Just ask Jacque Jones...
he wound up having a pretty decent first season with the Cubs. But his first month was so awful that he never got out of the doghouse with most people.
It’s just a lot easier to identify (both good and bad) stretches when it’s right out of the gate, because the overall impact is not muted by the rest of the season (yet).
On the bright side...
I guess that means teams like the Mariners and Blue Jays are in for great attendence the whole year :) Actually, I hope so. The more people following baseball, the more people that will witness Cub fans revel in the glory of a World Series victory this year…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Apr 29, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I hate to say this
But this is feeling very “2006”. Everytime we think Cubs are about to click and go on a good run they play horribly for a few days. Then they win two, things are looking OK and then lose horribly the next day.
I think things will get better and this is a small snippet but I can’t help but not feel this way.
I don't see much of 2006 in this season, aside from the current record...
That team just had really really bad pitching. This team has a better offense and better pitching.
Agreed
The 2006 and 2009 teams are worlds apart.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
And I forgot to mention the difference in managers even...
But man, that rotation was BAD. We had 16 starts from Rich Hill (who was actually solid that year), a good year from Zambrano, a #5 starter quality 2/3 of a season from Maddux, and the rest of the rotation was filled in by a bunch of guys who probably weren’t even ready for AAA yet (Mateo, Guzman, Marmol, Marshall).
They are world aparts
But I said I feel the same way I felt in 2006 in regards to expecting each series for things to turn around when they don’t.
The major difference is that this team will be able to turn around their woes and win a lot more games.
Perhaps you were too optimistic in 2006...
There was really no reason to expect things to turn around, especially once Wood, Prior, and Lee went down. That was just not a good baseball team by mid-May.
This team, as you said, at least has the proven talent on the roster to turn it around. The 2006 team just lacked the horses.
7-22 in May 2006
I believe that was the Cubs’ record that month. For all intents and purposes, the season was over at that point, particularly without the biggest horses for the rest of it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, and needless to say
I highly, highly doubt this team ever will go 7-22 over a month.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions
This is more 2004
Great team, picked to go far, lots of injuries. Still, this team is much better than the 2004 team.
by dr stabbingworth on Apr 30, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Long time reader first time poster
Good evening! Just thought you guys should know i love this site and have been following you guys since spring trainning and i find your insight very valuable (Except for the useless we need this and we need that crap.)
I’m a baseball gambler and your knowledge of your team has helped me greatly so far and i hope to be along for the marathon all the way to October.
I don’t bring much into insight, but i have been following you guys religiously so far in this young season.
This is my first year betting on baseball as it seems to be the only sport where you can actually win money from (trust me, i’ve learned the hard way with the others).
I decided to ride the Cubs and with your help, i’ll get through this marathon with some $$$.
So, again, it’s my first year so, my contributions will be limited, but i will have tons of questions for ya!!
Looking forward to this homestand Arami$ coming back!
GO CUBS!!!
Welcome and...thanks for betting?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
GET THAT W FLAG
Ready for Friday afternoon,,,,,,
Not Thursday?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 29, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions
howdy
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
So hard to figure this team out
10 runs one day, 6 the previous 4 games, then 2, then 10, then 0. Hopefully the bats will show up tomorrow. I’ll chalk this game up to “getaway day” and look forward to hooking the Fish tomorrow.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
There was a motion in the last thread
that seems reasonable – even for me:
June 1 is “not early” anymore…
It is pretty obvious that this team is weakened without Woody and DeRo. Whether they will be able to win the Division or Wild Card will depend on if they dramatically improve in every category right now – although starting pitching is pretty good.
This means, hitting with RISP, bullpen, defense. They have A LOT of work to do, in spite of how “talented” they are on paper.
No offense...
but that sounds awful chicken little-ish. I haven’t followed if you fall into the category (so apologies if you don’t), but I’m bemused by the sentiment of panic that seems to have set in for some folks.
I do think we have some stuff that could be better, but this isn’t a bad team the likes of the Padres, et al. that needs to be torn down and rebuilt. It’s still early. When guys get healthy we’ll have a better idea of where the team stands. And I feel pretty confident saying that at that point, it’ll become apparent that thigns aren’t nearly as bad as some BCB’s are saying it is. Some minor tweaks here and there maybe, but we’ll be fine.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Apr 29, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
E-Man usually is pretty even-keeled
But I think the playoffs last year threw him off his stroke a bit. Like the Cubs, he’ll be fine.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
and BTW...I wasn't being sarcasstic or mean....
just giving you may take on “seeing the same thing”
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
Don't attribute your keen observing to just 2 players...
Wood hasn’t been a whole lot better than Gregg …. and DeRosa, while knicking in runs for RBI’s isn’t exactly teraing up the AL……BUT….
Here’s my take….
1. TThe Cubs miss DeRo…b/c of his ability to hit (in the clutch)…and PLAY lot’s of positions…
2. The bullpen wasn’t particularly good last year…and it isn’t much better (maybe worse) this year.
3. Pitchin g has been OK this year…but starters were VERY GOOD last year…andd that’s sshowing u now…specially….
4.. B/C the Cubs aren’t SCORING…..
Wood and DeRosa MAY or MAY NOT have helped…but … yes one can argue body for body…BUT it isn’t as smple as Miles for DerO and Wood for Gregg…
As a team…the Cubs aren’t playing better than last year…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
the issues are easy
Marmol should close
Wood would have guaranteed we scored and hit the ball better
Theriot is too above average to be able to man SS
MB is done, he never will hit again
Dlee is too “nice” about the teams problems, and should be sent to see a therapist
Soriano has anger issues, and will challange Lee at UFC 100 Live from Las Vegas
The ledge jumpers have buiilt a grandstand so they can see over Wrigley Field in the US Cell
Hendry forgot to reup the contract with Wheeties for between inning snacks
Zell asked the Cubs to lose so that the sale will be prolonged
Rickets is the Cubs savior, but so is Cuban, and MTV will have a celebrity Death Match for Cubs ownership
Its 20 games in, so the other 142 are guaranteed to produce the same results
Jake Fox is a modern day He Man and needs to be batting 4th
Lou cannot manage, he just got luck with two winning seasons in the NL Central
The entire team should be sent to Iowa and the iCubs should be at Wrigley tomorrow
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
thats not an issue
thats a guarantee :=)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
You wrote all that
and never mentioned DeRosa? I’m disappointed.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
we all know he would have pitched 20 perfect games by now
didnt think I had to remind us of that
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
hi Emelie
who is this Peavy you speak of?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
can he back up
third base?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
heh-heh
Emelie wants Jake Peavy to come over to her house and lay some cable… hur hur hur…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Alon with Jake Fox.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 29, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Along, Along dammit.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 29, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
daaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmiiiiiiiiiit
How long should we give sig lines at the bottom of the comments?
Bradley watch -- out 7 games of 20
over rated from the start
This team had its heart taken away when De Ro was let go. They are highly over rated. A third place finish in Central Div would be good for the players they have now, Harden is by far there best most dependable starter. Waiting on next year already
Ha! Good spoof
of all the ledge-jumpers out there. Excellent piece of satire.
Right?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks, troll!
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
wow, third place?
you’re picking us to do better than the Pirates? You optimist, you.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 29, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Correct
but it would be retroactive to last weekend, so it would be more like eight days.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
8 days
lets just throw in the towel, we will lose 45 games during those 8 days
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
ledge jumper = comic relief IMO
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
They are a bizarre bunch...
I often wonder if they’re hormonely imbalanced teenagers or if they just have never followed a team through the ups and downs of a season before…? :o)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Apr 29, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
or bandwagon - fairweather fans
who will move on to another SBN group until that team is losing
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
depends on the situation?
If its June 1st and you are 10 games out its not early anymore
If its July 1st and you are only 3 games out, its still early enough to make waves.
Trade Deadline
is the fail safe point to me. after that making moves will not be as easy
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
If you look at the A's in recent years....
it’s rarely too late to make a run…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Apr 29, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
bring it back!
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I totally want
those pants. However, my wife is not likely to allow me to have them.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 29, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
OT Jonathan Toews turned 21 today
I hope they continue the Canadian Drive By with a victory in the second round over Vancouver
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
End of July...
with a second post-waiver trade deadline of end of August.
for those who missed it, CSN will be replaying todays game
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
still better than a White Sox game
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
That might be the first rebroadcast that has zero viewers.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
oboy?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 29, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
When we continue to see our pitchers not execute, I ask:
Why does Lou have so much faith in Larry Rothschild?
Why is it that many guys leave this staff and do better elsewhere? Or when guys get here, they rarely improve upon the game that they brought to the Cubs. I know Larry is no Dave Duncan, but I have never liked his approach. Maybe he is just too weak to be his own man in front of Lou, but I didn’t like him when he ran the staff with Dusty.
I know walks are 51% mental, but this has to get solved, and fast. It is contagious. I am not a ledge-jumper and it is a long season. I just think there is plenty of talent on this staff that doesn’t get fully exploited. I have faith in the pitchers (ex-Cotts) that we’ve got.
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
i think it is less Rothchild
and more the strike zone. we have not seen many consistant calls this year so far.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Dempster got a lot better with Rothschild last year...
Zambrano turned out okay. Lilly has worked out.
Rothschild isn’t a great pitching coach, but I don’t think he’s the problem. I suspect that (like managers), there are very few exceptionally good ones. Most are pretty interchangeable. Obviously there are exceptions, like Duncan. But even Duncan has his faults (doesn’t work well with young pitchers – he’s better with reclamation projects).
But ultimately a lot of it is just the pitchers performing (or not performing). Dempster has struggled with walks throughout his career. Last year, he did really well to limit walks. So far this year (though it’s early), he’s walking guys like he did earlier in his career.
plus with any coaching
you can tell them what adjustments to make, but you cannot make the adjustments for the players
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Rothschild
I’m sure if there was some ‘magic dust’ Rothschild could sprinkle on the pitching staff to keep them from walking guys he would have done that a long time ago. Dempster is just prone to walks. He’s always near the league leaders in batting average against he’s got good stuff just doesn’t know where its going sometimes.
Exactly...
The Cubs have trouble with walks because we have pitchers who have trouble with control. Guys like Harden and Lilly don’t have problems with walks because they have good control. Guys like Zambrano, Dempster, et al don’t have the same control, and thus are more prone to the walks.
The pitching coach can only do so much.
exactly
he can only suggst changes and hope that pitchers listen, and he also can only work with the talent he is handed by Hendry
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
That all said
An exceptional pitching coach can do a lot. But there’s only one Dave Duncan. I suspect he’s even better than Leo Mazzone was. How often did/has Mazzone made chicken salad out of chicken cr@p?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
how many good pitchers were given to Mazzone
Maddux
Smoltz
Milwood
Hampton
to name a few
what has he done in Baltimore?
some of what made him look like a genius was how prepared the pitchers he received were from the farm havng the kids ready, or the pitchers signed that were well scouted before coming in to Atlanta
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
i just threw a few names fast
but yes, that name helps further my thought process
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Mazzone simply had a good philosophy...
But that philosophy only went as far as his 3 hall-of-fame pitchers could carry it. Duncan is far better at alchemy than Mazzone.
part of his philosophy
was if he felt he could not make u good, you were gone ASAP, he did not give many chances to under performers (like how he didnt keep Marquis long, etc)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I meant his actual pitching philosophy...
as in:
Work the outside corner (especially low and outside). Don’t give in to the hitters. And don’t overthrow.
Atlanta also had some generious calls from the umps
which helps ANY pitching staff
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Absolutely
Glavine, especially, worked about 6 inches off the outside corner for strikes.
which helps make the pitching coach look amazing
dont it
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Part
of getting good calls is learning how to pitch to get good calls. There are a couple of really good analysts that have shown how pitchers like glavine and maddux will actually work in such a way that they fool not just the batter but often the ump as well. You start with a pitch that is definately a strike and take it gradually farther and farther off the plate and test the zone.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
fair enough
But Glavine in that 98 playoff game was just a mockery. In my eyes his whole career deserves an astericks. He got 3 extra inches his whole career and I really don’t understand why.
I think its
Harry Pavaldis who posts here, he was saying something about the umpires getting between 2 and 4 inches on either side of the plate in the grading system. So its not out the question. I don’t know anything particular. I just know what ive seen and heard between analysis and recent games watching on game channel with pitch fx.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Yes...
but how’d Duncan do with Marquis…vs. Rothchilds?
PS I don’t know the answer…just food for thought
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
Good point
Marquis might be the most notable flameout under Duncan. Yet he did well under Larry. Go figure.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
did excel under Duncan or Mazzonne
but he was also younger when in Atl which might have something to do with that one
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Also
In reference to what Larry did when Dusty was manager, it doesn’t help when your two best starting pitchers are injured more often than not. Lou seems to think pretty highly of Larry.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Lou won a WS in Cinci with Rothchild
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I believe Rothschild was the bullpen coach, but yes...
he was on the staff for the 1990 Reds team. But again, it’s easy to look good when you have good pitchers to work with.
I can't believe I'm saying this
but I agree with SC again.
Rothschild doesn’t get the credit he deserves a lot of times. Marquis wasn’t too shabby under his guidance, either, and Marmol’s switch from a poor starter to a very solid reliever probably didn’t develop from thin air.
Like SC said, Dempster needs to cut down on walks. If he does that, he’ll be fine.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I think
that a good pitching coach, like was mentioned with Mazzone will recognize when he can’t help a particular pitcher and send them packing. He won’t worry about them having success elsewhere because he recognized that they didn’t fit his system.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Demp had his contract year last year....
and…..Marquis didn’t exactly flourish under the annointed “KING” of all pitching coaches AKA Duncan
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
grading the Cubs after 20 games is almost as bad as graging Obama after 00 adys in office
its is way too soon to
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
100 days*********
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Looking at the box scores from the first 20 games
The Cubs have played their “A” lineup (Soriano, Fukudome, Lee, Bradley, Ramirez, Fontenot, Soto, Theriot – in no particular order) 5 times. Look at that again – 5 times. I’m pretty certain this team was built for those 8 to play together more than five times.
As Al said in his recap, this team needs health. With so many injuries, Lou has not had the luxury of using players in their normal spots in the batting order (see Reed Johnson batting fourth the other night) or using his role players as intended (with the exception of Joey Gathright, perhaps).
(If you want to point out a flaw with this team, I would go with the lack of a replacement in the event of an Aramis Ramirez injury. While it’s odd to say, Ronny Cedeno would have played a role for this team in that spot, allowing Fontenot to stay at second.)
Once this team is healthy (and it hopefully will happen in the next week or so), I except things to start clicking, once players get comfortable with their spots in the batting order and in their roles for this team.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Apr 29, 2009 7:11 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Well said...
One of the biggest differences between this year’s team and last year’s team is depth. Last year’s team (once we got Edmonds, that is) could withstand a few injuries in the lineup. This year’s team probably has more top-end talent when everyone is healthy, but it’s not built to handle multiple injuries at once.
The hope was that the injuries would be few and far between. So far, that hasn’t been the case. Hopefully, the team will have better health in the near future.
That said, the team’s health is something to keep in mind throughout the year. Hopefully the bench will be tweaked a bit (if possible) to provide better coverage for injuries (we’ve got some dead weight on the roster right now). But if the team can get and stay healthy, the results should get much better.
When everyone is healthy, this team is deep
Johnson, Miles, Hoffpauir and Gathright (to an extent) all can fill different roles for this team (platoon, spot starting, power off the bench and speed). The problem arises, as you’ve said, when there are multiple injuries, exposing guys who are limited in their roles.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
That's what I mean by not deep...
We have a great starting 8 and good role players. Last year’s team had 10-deep in terms of capable everyday players (including a guy who could play 5 positions), and solid role players after that.
I think the organization expected more out of Miles (which was, I think, a poor evaluation), which is a big reason why we don’t look as deep this year.
But as long as the team is healthy, it’s really capable.
And I suspect
pieces will be added and subtracted to that depth as we roll along. Maybe having this dilemma now is good, because at least there’s enough time to get through it and rectify any problems should this happen again.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I would suspect the same
and the nice thing is, we’re discussing the 21st, 22nd players on the roster – in the grand scheme of things, it’s not a terribly big deal and is a luxury to have this problem instead of something far worse.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Moves will almost certainly be made...
I think that Piniella has given up on Miles as a utility guy and I think he’s given up on Gathright. I think the Ramirez injury illustrated the need for a backup on the left side of the infield (Fontenot is a great option at 2B, but not a good solution at 3B).
Also, Cotts and Patton have to be on thin ice. There are probably 3-4 spots on the 25-man roster that could be adjusted to improve the team.
Gotcha.
I would agree that Miles looks like a serious reach right now, especially as Lou seems reluctant to play him anywhere but 2B. If he starts hitting, though, I could see Lou moving him around more.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Cedeno at third
could have been very interesting to see.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 29, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Gathright has got to go.
I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again. He’s completely worthless to this team. Completely.
how has Gaithright lost us any games?
And who would be such a great fit on this team as the 25th man?
I'd rather have Jake Fox.
ANY infielder.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Apr 29, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not about him costing us games...
that’s a silly way to measure a bench player’s value.
A better question would be this: what has Gathright done to contribute? Honestly, has he done ONE thing to contribute?
Has hw won "us" any?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
this is my point
He’s basically not been a net positive or a net negative for the team. I personally like a speed guy at the end of the bench. He’s not a pinch hitter but neither was Ronny Cedeno.
He's a negative because he fills a spot that is needed elsewhere
While also contributing nothing to the team.
Surely Felix Pie could have done this for half the salary.
by dr stabbingworth on Apr 30, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
the pickoff in STL
… was a huge, huge rally killer.
Meh, we rarely got blown out last season
but this year I feel like every game we lose, we lose big time as a result of the bullpen. Very 2005-ish type pen we have..
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
we also rarely had an injury
we got very lucky last season with minimal injuries.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Aramis I remember was out a lot, so we had DeRosa fill is shoes
Soriano was out for awhile as well and we had Reed in to play. We had much more depth last season than this year. If someone was heavily slumping, someone could take his place
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
Reed and DeRosa also had
pretty darned good seasons.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
As did Edmonds...
a shockingly good season.
Of course, Fukudome had a pretty terrible second half.
Edmonds might have been the biggest surprise of 2008
I think he was universally proclaimed dead when he was acquired. I know I didn’t like the move.
But I was wrong, as were almost all of us. Glad for that.
Although I disagree with Al about re-acquiring him. Gary Gaetti all over again, I fear.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed, for two reasons...
First, I think he’s not likely to repeat his otherwordly 2008. He was mediocre in 2006, bad in 2007, and awful in early 2008. I’m hesitant to let a nice 3-4 months override a three-year trend.
Second, I think there isn’t the same need. We don’t have a gaping hole in the lineup unless someone gets hurt for a long period of time. And we don’t need another LH bat.
If he could come for the league minimum and would be okay with being a pinch hitter and Bradley insurance, I’d be fine with it. But I doubt that’s what he’d be looking for.
DeRosa and Cedeno
both played 3B and Cedeno, for all his bonehaeded things, had a good arm and did not do a horrible job filling in defensively there
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Where is ONEDEC now?
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 29, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
playing for seattle
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
That trade actually worked out OK.
Essentially, Pie, Hill and Cedeno for Heilman. I think the Cubs came out ahead on that one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
funny how that would have landed us ....
nope not going to say it..
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
Would have landed a lot more a year or two ago...
whether or not it would have landed Roberts. But Pie and Hill were untouchable.
Just goes to show, dealing in prospects is a tricky business.
by SouthernCub on Apr 30, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Hill was a bit more than a "prospect".
He won 13 games for a division champion and was one of the better LH starters in the NL in 2007. His decline is inexplicable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not the point, but sure...
You’re nitpicking the term prospects which is beside my point. Playing along though – Pie and Hill were also untouchable in 2006, when they were both still prospects. They could have commanded more than they ultimately landed us.
I’m not saying I would have traded them either. I was just saying that trading guys at the right time is a lot harder than it seems (whether they are prospects or just young MLBers).
by SouthernCub on Apr 30, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah hindsight 20/20
Hill looked like he was going to be the next Zito (which he actually did do) and Pie was going to be our CF for at least ten years
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
I don't disagree with that.
Had anyone known what Hill was going to do last year, they could have traded him after 2007 and gotten a whole passel of top prospects, or maybe a starting MLB shortstop.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The Cubs were able to avoid multiple injuries at a time last year
losing your 3-4-5 hitters at once is blow that will hurt any team. And yes, having DeRosa to plug the leaks last year helped, but he could have only filled in at one spot this year when Bradley and Ramirez were both out.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
true, but we didn't have Bradley last year
plus Fukudome could have moved to RF, Reed in CF, that would have worked
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
It would have
but then we’d be worried because Reed hasn’t hit on a daily basis yet.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Not only that,
But early last year, it seemed that whenever the Cubs lost momentum on the road, they returned to Wrigley Field. It happened on several occasions, in particular when the Cubs struggled in Houston and Pittsburgh, when they lost four of six. They came back home, and swept a seven-game homestand against Colorado and the LA Dodgers.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 29, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
Aside from Soriano’s extended hiatus, the mysterious Wood blister and some usual Aramis stuff, the team was pretty healthy last season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't that enough?
i don’t think Soriano+Aramis+Wood was by no means negligible.
We had big injuries last year too. The big difference is the bench strength.
Soriano's injury
was the only “big” injury the Cubs had.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Cubs got blown out 9-0 by the Reds on May 7, 2008.
They looked awful that day. They had just finished a stretch of going 5-9.
Just about then they took off and never looked back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
yeah, that was the Lieber game right?
But the Cubs giving up close to 10 runs per game has been a common affair this year so far
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
they gave up 9 to the Rockies
in the game they came back in the bottom of the ninth.
The only stats that matters are wins. Obviously we need to get more. But I don’t care how many runs score during the game, so long as we have more than the other team by the time the game is over.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 29, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
yes me too, but you can agree with me that this bullpen needs drastic changes
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
no.
I think Heilman is a great find. I like Guzman and I think Patton has real potential. Marmol is the fireman, and I really don’t think Kevin Gregg is as bad as other people do. Shark provides that swing-man coverage. The only really not great guy is Cotts, and Lou appears to have a blind spot with him. That’s seven, with the five starters, that’s twelve pitchers. I’d like to see Cotts go away, and have us get another lefty — not necessarily a LOOGY, but a lefty — but other than that, I’m happy to stand pat.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 29, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
I think Cotts is the only hopeless case in the bullpen right now.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 30, 2009 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I was at that game
It rained off and on all day, and the Reds just teed off on Lieber. That was a long ride home afterward.
They were 2-4 last season at GABP, I believe.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 30, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
and then didn't they come and do it to us
at Wrigley as well? To Jon Lieber AGAIN?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
It was a day game that Cincinnati
I was cleaning and it was one of the few day games last season, that I was frustrated enough to turn it off and turn back on public radio.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 30, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions
this game
was NOT the result of teh bullpen.
Besides, don’t you remember the games vs Cincy last year? Wossnames, that one pitcher, he got destroyed by them twice.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 29, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
yes!
Poor John Lieber.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 29, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey Bruce - or Other Brothers/Sisters
Did Bruce Froemming finally retire, or is he still with us?
Also, has Big “Country Joe” West retired this year finally?
That guy has difficulty running out to the outfield anymore.
I imagine they are protected heavily by the Union.
He's not an on-field ump anymore
but I still think he works with MLB in some capacity, as an advisor to Selig. He and Bud both live in Milwaukee.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmm, didn't know that.
Next time I’m in the Milwaukee area, I’ll keep my eye out for a sofa wearing a little black cap.
Insert witty and/or humorous signature here.
And if you see him,
tell him I’m still pissed at him for screwing Milt Pappas out of a perfect game.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, and Joe West
still is active. For better or worse.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
You may know this...
But Cowboy Joe has a “band” and a website.
HA! lol
three blind mice
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Are you meaning...
that’s one of their “Hits”?
or the name of the band
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Yeah, I know
Too funny. Although he was OK in “The Naked Gun.”
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe he was one of the umps
with Leslie Nielsen in the ballpark scene.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
That is SO
Funny, Bruce!
Now I have to rent it after twenty years just to see that!
He DID screw
Pappas out of that perfect game.
“Weasels Ripped My Flesh”
Us Zappa fans
have to stick together. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 29, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Hot Rats! More Zappa fans!
How long should we give sig lines at the bottom of the comments?
Bradley watch -- out 7 games of 20
This is the kind of game that makes me drink too much beer.
It just needs to be forgotten about.
The biggest problem with this team is that I can’t figure out what its identity looks like. We looked unstoppable yesterday, and we got TWO F-ING HITS on DOUG DAVIS today. I have no idea which is the real team. It’s very frustrating, and I know we as BCBers are expressing that frustration. Someone above said that we know Jim and Lou aren’t going to “wait the storm out”, they are go-getters, and we will have a refueling, new supplies, and some badass new weapons in here before too long. That, or Lou is gonna break some stuff.
Okay, time for LOST.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Not sure what they can do or get
in terms of players, but I’ll be the first to admit that I haven’t looked to see who is potentially available. That being said, due to injuries and slumps, it’s hard to say the offense truly isn’t working, it hasn’t been in one piece long enough to know.
Pitching has been inconsistent at best, though, and that will be an issue if not straightened out. Personally, while a loss is a loss, I’d rather lose due to the other team hitting us than walks being issues that are turned into runs. Meaning, if they don’t have the control to nibble the edges, or can’t tell what strike zone the ump is going to give, challenge the hitter, let the defense help you.
And one thing I’m wondering, extremely small sample size, if Dome continues his strong start, will he be allowed to face lefties? No real answer, but I like having his defense out there, and hopefully his plate patience would make it worth trying.
by chitownhawkeye on Apr 29, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Dome hit WAY better against LHP than RHP last year:
RHP
BA: .251
BAbip: .292
LHP
BA: .276
BAbip: .337
So yes, I think he will be facing lefties. He hits them much better.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
I'm surprised
I thought he was still largely being “protected” against LHP. Did I just misunderstand that, or is it a case of Reed typically just doing a better job?
by chitownhawkeye on Apr 29, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Reed's stats from 2008:
RHP
BA: .280
BAbip: .329
LHP
BA: .333
BAbip: .398
Reed hits LHP much, much better than he does RHP, and much better than Dome, too. That BAbip is pretty damn high, but he does do a better job with the southpaws than Dome.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Reed's stats from 2008:
RHP
BA: .280
BAbip: .329
LHP
BA: .333
BAbip: .398
Reed hits LHP much, much better than he does RHP, and much better than Dome, too. That BAbip is pretty damn high, but he does do a better job with the southpaws than Dome.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
those stats are weird
Just from memory I remember Fukudome just looking horrible and lost against left handed pitching last year.
I think all of his homers came against rightys. Reed is the better career hitter against lefties. I think the platoon is ok for now. I’m sure Bradley will be out enough to where Fuku will have to play against lefties here and there.
Well, a .276 average isn't very good.
At least not good for a $48 million dollar player. A BAbip of .337 is a tad high, suggesting that Dome was either lucky in his success against LHP, simply hits them better, or had a year that is irregular. Hard to tell without more data.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
What was his % of Line drives on the split?
That would let us determine how out of ordinary the BABIP is…
(I guess I could look this up myself, huh…) :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Apr 30, 2009 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions
well, on Gregg's walks
And Kevin Gregg wasn’t hurt and also issued three walks — that was ten altogether for the staff today.
I was listening to the radio in the car at that point, and I heard Gregg got ejected for jawing with the ump. I was glad to hear at least ONE Cub get some fire in his belly. Were the pitches badly thrown or badly called by the ump?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
At the start badly called
but after being jobbed on two straight pitches he completely lost the zone.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Gregg
Pat Hughes said Gregg got up with Marmol, but then sat down for a while. Later, Hughes said Gregg was up again, and apparently he pitched later in the game.
So what happened with Gregg’s knee? I though Lou said he wouldn’t get him up and then sit him down again.
by dr stabbingworth on Apr 30, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I think
that was mostly a cold weather precaution. It was apparently warm in Arizona and the roof was open so maybe they thought they could get a away with it.
From the perspective of watching the game on Gameday, Gregg came out very sharp (struck out the first 2) but then had the third man he faced under his toe, got jobbed on a couple of calls and then walked him and nearly everyone else he faced.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
20 games in
Slowly the small sample size argument is going away. This team is very frustrating because they can be as good as last night, but also pull the crap from today.
That Dempster contract isn’t going to look so hot as the season goes on. No longer does he like to throw strikes until after he has allowed runs. That needs to be fixed ASAP.
The bullpen is the other problem. Marmol needs to be put on the DL. I don’t care what he says, just give him two weeks off to rest his arm.
The offense will show up once Aramis is back and the Marlins are gone. I sure hope a weekend home is just what we need, and everything goes well.
www.talkingchicagobaseball.blogspot.com
Dempster's contract
Like Abreu’s contract — people tend to forget that the market collapsed midway through the off-season. A lot of people thought Dempster could have gotten a lot more had he tested the waters. Abreu would not have signed for what he did in November.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 29, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Who was it that once said...
give me 9 starters in their ccontract years and I’ll give you a winner…
(Dempster had his contract year last year)…
I’ll bet it was Sparky Anderson or Whitey Herzog
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
Sparky
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Apr 30, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Marmol had a problem with his knee
not his arm. He hasnt thrown much, no need to rest it. I think Marmol has two problems
1. Arizona
2. too much rest
A stinker/laugher depending on your view.
Still, the Cubs have had a lot of struggles and are .500. Hopefully guys get healthy and over time we’ll get more production. The bullpen could be an issue all season and the bench needs to be improved. I expect the Cubs will address the latter from outside, but the former may be in-house. It’s a long season and I’ll be more surpised/shocked if this team doesn’t get it together and compete. Given their health issues and the bullpen I think .500 is good.
Um my root canal WAS more fun than the game
Both still hurt.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
This is shaping up as very expensive mediocre ballclub
This is a 85 to 88 win ballclub here ladies and gentlemen. The holes and question marks are there aplenty.
- Ryan Dempster converts a career year into a $54 million contract, then proceeds to revert back into the middling pitcher he is.
- We actually miss Jason Marquis and his reliability. Quibble all you want but Marquis is better option in the rotation than is Sean Marshall.
- Al Yellon was right — Kevin Gregg really does suck.
- Carlos Marmol isn’t the same pitcher he was last year. For whatever reasons.
- The bullpen in general is a clusterfuck. And can we finally yell out “uncle” when it comes to everybody’s latest teddy bear David Patton, he of the 9 plus ERA.
- Geovany Soto is struggling to such a degree that I am having nightmare of Rick Wilkins and actually wishing Jason Kendall were still a Cub. Don’t tell me I’m the only one who thinks this either.
- Mike Fontenot is a nice little ballplayer who is being manifestly overexposed playing everyday.
- We traded the excellent Mark DeRosa and his $5.5 million due for the privilege of acquiring Aaron Miles and his lead glove for $5 million.
- Derrek Lee has transformed into a 40 year old ballplayer and hereby gets my vote for 6th most desirious 1st baseman in the NL Central.
- Lou Piniella? I love the man and have defended the man to the max, but his expressions say it all…he wishes he were not in Chicago and instead taking the Steinbrenner’s money serving as special advisor to the Yankees.
- Minor league system? A colossal joke as always.
- St. Louis? Good ballclub. Maybe a real, real good ballclub.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on Apr 29, 2009 9:33 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
BLou
I think this is as good of time as any to change allegiences. Why not follow the great St. Louis Cardinals?
That's an excellent idea, I think
Or is singing the praises of Brian Barden every night not nearly as enticing as bitching about David Patton?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 30, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Ack
Let me try this again.
I don’t know about Lou wishing he was a Yankee, if you hadn’t noticed, they’re in exactly the same situation we are in terms of record. But I think there is an apt comparision, we have a lot of big contract, aging/injury prone guys, who are currently not living up to what we had hoped. We threw a lot of money around, and the results are not currently there. We’ll see what happens.
by chitownhawkeye on Apr 29, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Can we
Wait until Dempster has a few more starts till we are talking about his contract being a bad idea.
Wait for Marshall to have a few more starts before we wish he was Jason Marquis
Give Gregg a few outing to really find himself (I believe woody blew a few saves at the beginning of last year, and today was just a bad day for everyone).
Give Carlos a bit of time to ensure he is actually healthy. (he left with an injury not long ago and this was his first day back).
Aknowledge that the bullpen may need some work, but is not the collasal failure that you are implying. Gregg, Marmol and Heilman have been pretty good this year with few exceptions. Guzman and Patton have also performed admirably at times but are still figuring out the big time.
Give Soto a few more weeks before we write him off as a bust. Also a few days off with Hill in the lineup
Drop the talk about Mike Fontenot being “over exposed” when he is one of the few cubs actually showing any power lately.
Cut DLee some slack, he made good contact the other day and then got bit by the injury bug, leave him alone for a while.
Not fault Lou for having future employment lined up for when he leaves. I haven’t watched much, but from what I have heard Lou seems to be in this to win, I dont think he is looking forward beyond the Marlins tomorrow.
Actually look at Josh’s minor league reports before we dismiss the farm system. There are several guys in AAA, AA and A who look like they could be prospects or at least trade bait.
Forget that there are other teams in the division for another week or two at least…Right now the season is about winning every game that you play, when we get to June and July we can then start to worry about the standings a little bit. When the Card’s magic number is 50 we can talk.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Lee "made good contact"...ha
close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I was listening to the game on the radio, and in talking about D Lee, Pat remarked, “this is a player who would fit in well in any era.” I chuckled to myself, as I realized he’d fit extremely well in the dead ball era. No power whatsoever anymore. Here’s predicting 10 HRs all season for Lee.
As far as Soto, does he have options left? If he does, here’s predicting he’s back at Iowa by June. Not saying he’s a bust, but he’s hurting the team, and I wonder if time to regroup at AAA is in his future.
Dempster? Nice clubhouse guy and all that, but average pitcher that we overpaid for. What part of 7 walks in game 1 last year didn’t Hendry understand? That’s always been his problem- walking too many guys. This year, I fear we’re seeing the real Dempster; good stuff, poor control, ERA in low 4’s, .500 pitcher.
what scares me most is this mediocre lineup. Solid throughout, but no one who scares you. Moderate power throughout, but other than Soriano (who can’t hit em with men on base), 20 some homer power, and guys who press with men on base. That don’t produce in the playoffs, folks, and that’s what we’ve seen the last few years come October.
I love the Cubs, but I would have blown this team up after last October. I still stand by that. This team as currently constructed won’t win anything.
by reedjohnson on Apr 30, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reed
Im confused.
DLee had a great double on Sunday before leaving the game with a neck issue. He was capably replaced by Hoffpauir. Im not sure how a double to the wall in St. Louis is a problem. He will find his power stroke, give him time.
I do not think taht Soto has options left. Also why would you send down the most productive rookie catcher in years when he is slumping. He is in a major league slump and needs to work out of it at the major league level. It will not do him much good to go to Iowa and mash AAA pitching for a while. Even if it was an option why would you teach a guy that the only way to get sorted out is to go back to AAA. He is going to have slumps like this in his career and he needs to learn how to work out of them at this level.
Im ok with fearing the worst with Dempster, but the man is driven, as a good clubhouse guy I do not think that he will let himself struggle forever. He will get the help he needs to get his control. He is a vet, let him work it out.
Im confused, we have at least 3 guys in this lineup that have 30 homer power. Ramirez, Sorianno and either DLee or Soto will all cross 30 again if not this year than next. I also think that if Milton gets hot and stays healthy that he is capable of that kind of production as well.
I’ll admit that at times the lineup doesn’t scare me, but I will say that when hot this lineup will mash with the best in the league.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
"When hot they can mash"
couldn’t agree more- but that’s the problem- “when they’re hot.” I see a feast or famine lineup here, and have seen that for the last few years. Little consistency, and again, you can’t win in the posteason like that.
I know the Lee thing gets beaten to death (see the excellent thread elsehwere on this site), but hasn’t he only hit like 6 home runs since last May? I don’t see the power stroke returning anytime soon.
I hope, however, that you’re right and I’m wrong. We shall see.
the main problem so far
has been that they have all been hot at once or cold at once. Over the course of the season they will spread out the hits a bit more and it wont be so bunched. Think natural curve as a distribution of runs or hits. (I have no idea of that particular model fits, but i bet its close enough for the example to fly)
The post season is like pulling a few data points out of a nice distribution. You can get anything, with a small sample size like that you have no clue if the points you pulled out are outliers or smack in the middle of the distribution.
Lee has hit 8 homers since May of last year, Ill admit that’s a bit disturbing. But in the same time he has hit nearly 30 doubles so maybe the wind was working against him a bit last year. I have few problems with him not hitting many homers if he is still contributing with that many doubles.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
consistency
is a problem for EVERY team. Everyone goes through slumps. It just so happens that this year, we’re getting slumps out of the way early, and all at the same time.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I like that optimism
i hope we are just getting them out early and will tear it up through the summer months.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Apr 30, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
you want to send last year's NL Rookie of the Year
back to AAA when it’s not a rehab assignment?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think sending Soto back to AAA is even an option..but..
look at this way -
I want to send a struggling catcher having potentially a hurt shoulder to the DL or to AAA to find back his groove.
It’s just not his hitting, teams are stealing bases at will against him
The shoulder injury may be a legitimate issue.
If he’s hurt, send him to the DL.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I agree
but no one can suggest that Soto is a bust.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Time time time time time time time...
Everyone is always saying we just need to give them time. They’ve had enough time. We’re a month into the season, coupled with ST, that’s plenty of damn time. 10-10 through 20 games is unexceptable. They need to turn it around NOW…no more TIME.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Apr 30, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Um
a lot of teams are extremely grateful if they are 10-10 after the first 20. I grew up watching the orioles, most of these folks here watched some horrendous cubs teams. be grateful they are playing 500 ball this early and have hope of turning it around.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Irrelevant..
we aren’t Baltimore, we have more talent than Baltimore and we have better ball players than the teams that have an identical record than us, not to mention, we have a hire payroll.
If you’re happy that we’re .500, then fine, but that comes out to be 81-81, and not in playoffs. I know it’s early, but there’s no reason why I would accept a .500 through the first month of season with this ballclub.
April games mean just as much as September games.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Apr 30, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
The 2007 Cubs were 10-14 in April.
How’d that year work out?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Swept in playoffs
You compare alot Al….this team isn’t the same team as 2007. That was two years ago, this is now. Different players and owner
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Apr 30, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Baseball
is a game of comparisons to history. Statistics are historical records that indicate the likelihood of future results. we look back and move forward. We all realize that the games must be played, but the history is all we have to indicate future results.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
True enough.
They did MAKE the playoffs after starting 10-14, though. Teams come from records like 10-10 all the time to have good years. It IS still early.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Very early
Oakland for years looked out of the AL West at the break only to make a move at the deadline and take the division. This is a very funny game.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I agree with you Al
I guess I’m just frustrated that they’re 10-10 after 20 games. I thought they’d be better.
I am confident they’ll make the playoffs.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Apr 30, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I think we all thought they'd be better.
They started slowly last year, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
which means
they made it to the playoffs.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
You're just a bundle of joy, aren't you?
Fontenot has a 780 OPS. He’s fine.
You’re wishing JASON KENDALL were still here? Good God man, what’s wrong with you? I mean, seriously.
LOL at Marquis being a better option than Marshall. That’s just a stupid notion.
I agree with you on a couple things (Gregg, Patton) but when you say such stupid things, it’s hard to take the rest of your post seriously.
LOL at Marquis being a better option than Marshall. That’s just a stupid notion.
I disagree. Marquis was more productive than you seem to give credit for. He ate innings, was not horrible, won enough games to be a contributor. having him allows Marshall to be used as a swingman, like Terry Mulholland, and that allows Cotts to be gone.
Marquis also won some important games, could PH if needed, and could PR without beign picked off.
The negative about him, Hendry over paid #4 or #5 starter, thats about it.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I'm confused...
How does Marshall being moved to the pen into the swingman role allow Cotts to be gone? Cotts isn’t a swingman. Marshall as a LOOGY is a complete misuse of him.
And re: Marquis… yes, he ate innings. But he also gave up a ton of runs in doing so. What would you rather have, Marquis eating 7 innings and giving up 5 runs or Marshall going 5 innings and giving up 3 runs? Obviously these are hypothetical, but I think you see my point. (You should be aware that I’m not a Marquis “hater.” I think he was perfectly fine for the role he was in… just that Marshall is better)
slight misuse
but a better lefty in the pen, sometimes to win you have to hae a player or two taking roles not typical (shark in pen for example)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I think Tim
is suggesting that we shouldn’t have traded Marquis in the first place.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
so is
DeRosa, but people still talk about him.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
and no need to say that all he posted is stupid in my opinion
just say you disagree and why. the “you are so stupid” type of comments is what leads to total chaos, instead of good debates and good conversations, just my two cents
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Apr 29, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sean Marshall should be in the pen
Sean Marshall is not a starting pitcher in this league. But he can be a good versatile arm operating out of the bullpen. So yes, I prefer to think of Jason Marquis and his reliability of taking the ball every 5th day and giving his team generally decent starts.
Maybe you should acquaint yourself with a TV screen and take a gander at Soto’s swing right now. Or what he is trying to do with the pitched ball.
Fontenot is a 250-300 max at bat guy a year. Playing him more than that shall serve to over-expose his limited skill set and lessen his value.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
I'm curious on how you can be so certain
of Sean Marshall’s lack of ability to be a starting pitcher after 2 starts. 2 STARTS! Anything can happen to a pitcher in two starts. He can be uncomfortable on the mound. He can match-up poorly against the opposition. He can have really bad gas that day. You can’t seriously say that you can evulate how a pitcher will eventually end up after 2 starts. That’s even a stretch for you.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought Marshall pitched pretty well
against the Cardinals the other day. By BlueMike’s logic, I suppose I should declare him the favorite to win the Cy Young Award.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 30, 2009 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
i agree Marshall is doing well
and I am not saying he cannot be a starter, I just see him more of a Terry Mulholland type of pitcher, who had a long career as a swing man and did a little of everything
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
better be carefull wmg
challanging BLou, you might be told to go pound sand. LOL
I don’t think Marshall is an ideal starter, but most #5 starters arent. That is why they are #5 starters
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 30, 2009 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's right about here...
…yup, it’s right here. This is where I draw my line of “I’m gonna bitch about the horrible off-season moves Lou & Jimbo did/did not make this season” and “I’m gonna bitch about what we need to do this season”. I love DeRo just as much as the next guy (and I loved Marquis), but they are gone, and we are 20 games deep. I cannot bitch about what moves shoulda or coulda been done last year, I’m gonna only look forward at what we can and should do this year.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
YOU MADE SOME GOOD POINTS.....
That shows you care and are concerned as am I ….
sigh.
1) Not enough evidence.
2) I don’t think Marquis is necessarily better than Marshall, but he was very consistent.
3) No, Kevin Gregg really doesn’t suck.
4) Based on what? He’s been in nine games, and pitched 7.2 innings. Six hits, two runs, three walks, and two of them were today (presuming his stats at baseballreference.com are up to date). You’ve got nothing to base this on. Which is nothing new.
5) No it’s not, and I guarantee you, Patton has a real opportunity to be a critical pitcher for us down the stretch. He’s got a practically vertical learning curve, but he’s going to be good for us.
6) Fortunately, we have Koyie Hill to backstop him.
7) Perhaps. Slumps happen.
8) I liked Mark DeRosa, but he’s not exactly burning up the basepaths. Miles has been slowly improving. Also, Miles isn’t an everyday player for us, he’s a backup. We have injuries. It happens.
9) Not even worth responding to.
10) I refer you to my above statement.
11) Sigh.
12) Well, then, move to St. Louis.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 29, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
agree with most of this
But Patton a critical pitcher who’s going to be good for us? I’d be shocked if he lasts all year on the big league roster.
I think he'll be pitching for us
in October.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Only if there's another game 1 meltdown and Lou needs some mop-up
Lou barely uses Patton as it is, and only when the Cubs are down significantly. He’s also performed the worst of any pitcher on the staff (small sample size, but still). I’m pretty sure you’re not being serious, but come on.
by dr stabbingworth on Apr 30, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I am wholly serious
I think Patton’s going to figure it out, and pretty quickly. He’s not going to be Marmol or anything, but he’ll have his uses.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope you're right
I just question if Lou will give him that chance.
by dr stabbingworth on Apr 30, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
he's easily
the weakest pitcher on staff. But he’s getting a fire-hose of experience. Putting him out there against the Cardinals, that had to have been a rush.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
"...a fire-hose of experience"?
I guess that’s better than getting “a fire hydrant of experience,” assuming there are dogs in the area.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
he's standing in front of the hose
and then it’s turned on. Ever been hit with a fire hose?
Especially when Albert Pujols is holding it…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Was there today to see this debacle
and as bad as it must have looked on TV, it was just as bad in person.
Not going to recap, as Al and others have pretty much dissected it. Basically Demp was horrible early and we got a bad break on the ball hitting the ump. Davis was there for the taking, but no one could lay off his junk or do any damage when they got a pitch to hit. I thought at first Lee’s may have a chance but it was so freaking high. Byrnes could have eaten a sandwich waiting for that one to come down.
Sadly, even if Demp comes out of the first with only one run scored and he shuts down the D Backs the rest of the game, we still lose. One of those days that are going to happen every so often.
As an aside, it was a great day at the ’ol airplane hangar. Was nice to have the lid open and actually see sunshine. That place is such a mausoleum when the roof is closed. It was warm but comfortable, the icy malted beverages helped sate my thirst lol
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Well...
… if the Cubs come out of the first with only one run allowed, maybe the dynamics of the game change, maybe they could have tied it up 1-1 and gotten Davis out of there earlier. We’ll never know.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al......
What concerns me the most, and I’m surprised you didn’t mention this in your recap, is the lack of intensity that this team displays.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
It's hard to display intensity in a 10-0 blowout.
Would you say they had “intensity” in the 11-3 win the night before? Define what you mean by “intensity”. You want players yelling and screaming? Does that win games?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
intensity = energy = focus = swagger = confidence = hustle = desire.............
…..and I should have clarified that it wasn’t just last night, but I haven’t seen this team display it all year, win or lose.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Not even in those first two road series?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
OK, who has it and who doesn't? So you can tell all of this by looking? Does Dome
have it now? Did he have it last year? What about Milton? He looks pretty intense to me? So by your definition, all players that are good are intense and the ones that suck aren’t. Is that it?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
so can we track this statistic now?
IEFD, to make it short enough to use.
Dome has an IEFD of .78, but Lee has an IEFD of 56. Miles has an IEFD of .20.
Now, how does that translate into Ecksteins?
The team desires to win every game. I guarantee that. You don’t become a major league ball player if you don’t have the drive to succeed.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Lou said it best........
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/sports/1551766,4_2_JO30_CUBS_S1.article
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Said what?
“Give [Davis] credit, he changed speeds and located really, really well.”
This?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Look closer
“We’re not going to be able to just go out there and play without intensity and go through the motions and think we can win baseball games, I can tell you that,” Cubs manager Lou Piniella said, “and the quicker that sinks in, I think, the better.”
by dr stabbingworth on Apr 30, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
OK, I missed that.
Well, he’s echoing what Soriano said the day before yesterday. And he’s doing it to light a fire under his team. That’s fine.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
absolutely.
but no one should suggest that this team doesn’t want to win.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I don' think the Cubs are any less intense than any team in baseball. They
are playing poorly now. They aren’t pitching, hitting and playing defense as well as they are capable. Call it whatever you want but that is a fact. The Nationals are a very intense baseball team. They have guys who want to win as badly as any team in the league, but they suck. Not because they want it any less that anybody else, but because they aren’t as good.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
what
you mean SKILL matters too?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Amazingly, yes it does.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
but, but, but...
I thought it was IEFD! I could be all Christian Bale intense, and growl at the ball “ARE YOU COMING FOR ME?” Or I could be all Robin Williams intense and say “I haven’t seen a ball like that since I last visited your mother!” Or I could be all sarcastic intense like Steven Wright and say “Walking in baseball is like driving in Boston. You go ninety feet and then you stop.”
You’re telling me that’s not enough? How am I going to gas my Hummer and feed my poniez, and visit your wife and my kids????
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Intensity, dude.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
SEE?
WHY ISN’T THIS GUY STARTING SHORTSTOP???
He’s INTENSE!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
does he double-clutch?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
I disagree.....
We all agree the Cubs have abundant talent. The question is are they playing with intensity. I happen to think they are not. Just one man’s opinion, well two, see Lou’s comments.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
That talent is injured now. Don't you think that the so-called
“lack of intensity” could be the result of some of theose injuries? If you are starting a lineup that includes Reed Johnson, Aaron Miles and other bench players that team could appear to be a little less intense? Or do you feel that the lack of contributions by players like ARam, Milton, DLee and Soto will have no affect on the teams performance?
I saw Lou’s comments. He’s trying to get production out of bench players. See it for what it is.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
No, if you look at my response to Al that..............
I believe the intensity hasn’t been displayed all year, not just when players started to go down.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
That's your opinion. I don't agree with it.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Again, even in those road wins early in the season?
The come-from-behind victory vs. the Brewers, for instance?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
or two against
his sainted, intense Cardinals.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, those are even better examples.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I don't know if the blowout
against the Cards counts as intense. They didn’t LOOK constipated…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree...
mainly because I disagree with your terminology. Intensity and focus are not necessarily the same thing. Some people focus better when they’re relaxed.
I’d argue that intensity is a BAD thing when it comes to hitting. If you’re too intense, you won’t be able to focus and be patient.
Further I’m not sure I agree with your assessment that the team is playing without focus.
by SouthernCub on Apr 30, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
And..........
look at the injuries and distractions the Cardinals played though last year, with far less talent than the Cubs have this year, and still won 85 games. That’s intensity.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Are you implying that this team can't win 85 games? How
can you possibly compare that team to this team? The season is less than a month old. You have no idea how this season will play out.
How do you know that it was intensity that allowed that team to win 85 game. Maybe it was the fact that they played in a crappy division.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not implying anything..........
I’m saying that the Cardinals had far less talent last year than the Cubs have this year, and despite injuries and the tragic death of a teammate, they still won 85 games in a division that included the Cubs and Brewers.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
and I'd argue that it had nothing to do with intensity
by SouthernCub on Apr 30, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
It had to do with Albert, Ankiel and Ludwick.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
And their desire and intensity to win, correct?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
No, their offensive production. Period.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Every team in the ML has the desire to win. That's obvious.
Surely you are not implying that the Cubs don’t want to win are you?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
So what, if anything, do attribute to their success?
and remember, Puhols is just 1/25th of the team
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
wow.
just wow. Do you equate Aramis Ramirez to Joey Gathright as hitters? Pete’s sake.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
who said that?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
you just said
that Pujols is just “1/25th” of the team. You put every player, including the guys there to be pinch runners, on an equal standing.
So, basically, you said that.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
No not at all............
what I am saying is that even though he’s a great, maybe the best, active player, he can’t do it alone.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
good thing
he’s got Ludwick, Ankiel, Wainwright, Wellemeyer, Schumaker and Duncan to back him up.
Maybe If they’d been playing second-string backups (although they don’t seem to have many), they would have lost some games. Take Pujols, Ankiel, Duncan and Ludwick out of that lineup, and how many runs do they score? Because that’s the equivalent of taking Lee, Soto, Rami and Bradley out.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
And, I appreciate your intense and spirited debate!!
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
I disagree with your evaluation of the Cards' talent
significantly.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
how's that?
They did have Miles
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
they have
Ludwick. Ankiel. Pujols. Take those guys out, and THEN you can compare that team to this year’s team.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
and yet
if we went .500 for the season… we’d win about 83 games.
So “without the intensity”, we’re nearly as good as the Cardinals with the intensite — and Albert Pujols.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope you'd agree that if this talented Cubs team of 2008 only won 83 games...........
that the season would be a disappointment to say the least.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Of course it would be a disappointment. This team is
capable of far more, but I really don’t think it would be from lack of effort. If this team can get healthy, they can play much better. I think it’s a stretch to try and predict what type of effort this team will put out this year. The talent is there. It just needs to get on the field.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course.
But the full starting lineup has only played 5 games since the beginning of the season. 3/4 of the games have been played with some combination of Miles at second, Fonty at third, Hoff at first or in right, and anywhere from two to four of our biggest bats missing from the lineup.
And yet, we’ve maintained a .500 average, and been able to work the best team in the league to a 3-3 record.
I agree with other people on this board — the bench is much more shallow than it was last year, and a lot of that has to do with losing Mark DeRosa. Miles clearly isn’t the super-sub that we wanted him to be.
But that’s got absolutely NOTHING to do with “intensity” or “desire”. Every single one of these players goes out wanting to win. Some days they play better than other days, but we’ve suffered several early injuries that have had a much greater effect on our play than some ephemeral sense of desire.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
You know, I have the desire to win the lottery real bad. So far,
the checks have yet to start arriving.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
make more of a face
like you’re constipated. I hear that helps.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
and that's not likely to happen...
the starting lineup has played together FIVE times. That’s 25% of the games this year. That number is going to go up. As will our record.
by SouthernCub on Apr 30, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope you're correct
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
it's all about staying healthy
if the lineup stays healthy, we’re fine. If we have to go with a lineup that includes Miles as a regular feature, we’re probably not.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
that goes without saying
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
except you're suggesting that
the “poor play” has to do with intensity, when we’re telling you it has to do with the fact that four of our big guys have been injured in the first 20 games of the season.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Apparently, that's all it takes. If you have the "passion and the fire", you can accomplish
anything. “Intensity” is way overblown. In baseball, intensity can be taken away by a good pitching performance from the opposition. Give me a pitcher who can throw 95+ and locate. That’s intense. Does Albert have intensity? He seems to be a pretty good player and I don’t see a lot of emotional outburst from him
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You missed the point hear, and so did Al.....
Intensity /=/ talent. A pitcher does not throw 95+ and locate with talent alone. To accomplish this he needs focus, confidence, energy and desire which as I said = intensity.
Puhols is the epitome of intensity. Again you missed the point. Intensity /=/emotional outbursts. But take a close look at Albert and what do you see? intensity = energy = focus = swagger = confidence = hustle = desire
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Again...
… did you fail to see those things in the first two road series? Or in the home series vs. the Cardinals?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
apparently
we’re a sucky team that just got lucky twice. Winning half our games against the hottest team in the league when our 3-4-5-6 players were out just demonstrates the luck.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Lou said it best
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/sports/1551766,4_2_JO30_CUBS_S1.article
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Did you just post the same article twice?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
yes, he did.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
And I don't see anything about "intensity" in Lou's comment.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
it's there.
“We’re not going to be able to just go out there and play without intensity and go through the motions and think we can win baseball games, I can tell you that,” Cubs manager Lou Piniella said, “and the quicker that sinks in, I think, the better.”
I happen to think that it’s a sop to the press, tho.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree...
Managers like to vent, and intensity is always a fun word to toss out there because the media eats it up.
You're projecting, Clutche.
The Cubs poor play is sapping YOUR energy, so you’re projecting your own weariness on to them. None of us can say definitively how these players are feeling on the field. Maybe they had too much intensity in yesterday’s game, which led them to being too aggressive at the plate against Davis’ slop. Is that possible?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I think it's telling when both Soriano and Lou say the same thing
For all the accusations of amateur prognosticating around here, it’s worth noting when a player/manager indicates the problem exists.
by dr stabbingworth on Apr 30, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying the team has a perfect attitude.
Clearly, a fire needs to be lit. But my BS detector always goes off when I read comments like that. I just find them gross oversimplications of a complex problem.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
+1
I find this notion that the Cubs are just “going hrough the motions” laughable. Do you really believe that guys like Theriot, Fontenot, Reed and Miles think that they can just show up and win ball games? The Cubs are playing poorly because their key performers are injured.
You can dress it up any way you want, but when Milton, ARam, DLee, Soto and Marmol are banged up as they are, this is not the same team. Yes injuries are part of the game and you have to play through them, but that doesn’t mean you will go merrily on and play as if everyone is fine. Lou is trying to get more out of the guys that are not the big guns in the lineup. You don’t have to motivate you best players, they’re you best players for a reason.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Indeed.
For guys like Theriot, Fontenot, Johnson and Miles to think that way would be a direct violation of their Holy Oath of Scrapacity and – take it from me – they would never, ever, ever do that.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
If they did, their collective heads would explode. The scrappiness
would build up in their bodies to the point to where they would achieve spontaneous combustion.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
"Intensity"
Intensity “callouts” are what team leaders resort to when things aren’t going right and there aren’t any tangible changes they can figure out to fix the problems.
Lou and Fonzi are right… it probably IS hard to be intense when three of your best players have been sitting idly on the bench nursing pulled groins, spasaming necks, whatever else. But no amount of public callouts about intensity are going to get our best guys back on the field. We are starting guys who weren’t meant to be our starters right now… and maybe we are losing because they aren’t as “intense” as our regulars… but maybe, just maybe, we aren’t winning because the guys on the field aren’t as good as the guys that are hurt.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Apr 30, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe
we had men on base in our half of the first and no one scored.
We had really good seats and what I thought I was seeing from Dempster was poor mechanics. He wasn’t driving towards the plate consistently, bending his back, etc. It seemed that most of his misses were high, that’s a symptom of what I described, throwing the ball more upright than leaning, pushing towards the plate.
I think Marmol’s problems were lack of work from his injury. 5 days without game being in a game wrecks most, if not all, relievers’ rhythm/mechanics.
I am not going to question their desire right now. Davis is the type of pitcher that either you tag pretty good or he mows you down all day. I thought we got squeezed a few times and he got a bit better as the game wore on. It shows on the type of outs we made. Easy flyouts and some ground balls with a bunch of K’s. I can only remember maybe 3 balls hit on the nose.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Ahhh...the argument for all the "sell high"....
people on DeRo..(though he isn’t “doing it” yet")……IS…he IS in a contract year..
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
I tuned in on radio at work in the bottom of the 6th,
listened to an inning, and turned it off. Thaknfully I missed Judd.
So, now I am channelling positive energies towards the Cubs; they’re going to come home and sweep Florida in four games, and everything will be fine. HOOOOOOME… HOOOOOOME….
How long should we give sig lines at the bottom of the comments?
Bradley watch -- out 7 games of 20
A couple key blunders by Hendry ...
Mark DeRosa essentially was traded for two reasons: To save money so we could sign Milton Bradley, and to acquire prospects that could have been used to get Jake Peavy.
We don’t have Peavy. And I THINK Hendry could have kept DeRosa and signed Bradley if he hadn’t made some other moves that look pretty questionable right now.
DeRosa is making $5.5 million this year. If the Cubs hadn’t signed Miles ($2.2 million), Gathright ($800,000), Gaudin ($2 million, and now with San Diego) and taken a flier on Paul Bako ($150,000 buyout, I believe), they’d be right around $5 million.
For the sake of argument, let’s say the Cubs kept Pie, who earns $410,000 this year. I’m also a little cloudy on how much the Cubs still have to pay Gaudin.
Anyway, they’d still be around $4 million, and I have to believe Hendry could have found another $1.5 million somewhere.
Do I have the benefit of hindsight? Of course. But Hendry will be judged by the success of his moves, and I truly believe the team would be a LOT stronger right now with DeRosa rather than Miles/Gathright and the departed Gaudin and Bako.
And, no, I don’t think DeRosa is the second coming. But he would have been important in the past few weeks, I think.
One problem — could DeRosa be the backup shortstop? Maybe not — but I wonder whether he’s as capable there as Aaron Miles.
Am I wrong on any of this? Discuss away.
Final point — if this has been discussed at length elsewhere, I apologize.
"if this has been discussed at length elsewhere"
Dude. Really?
by dr stabbingworth on Apr 30, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Yeah, ya think?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
in one shot?
Like a post of its own? I haven’t seen it.
I take that back ...
I haven’t seen anything that laid out where the Cubs could have saved money to keep DeRo. I have seen lots of complaints that he was traded.
Was it ever an issue
that Mark DeRosa be able to play short? Miles doesn’t play short.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
that may be his ASSIGNMENT. But I was under the impression that he was really brought here to platoon at second.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
He was brought here to be the supersub...
playing 2B, 3B, and SS as needed. However, I think Piniella has discovered that he’s really just a 2B and is now using him accordingly.
by SouthernCub on Apr 30, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
arm injury
during spring training may still be a factor. He did not play much short or third during the spring because of this.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I'm more inclined to believe it's because he's not a good option...
but it’s possible that it’s injury related. Though I’m pretty sure he was a bad SS and 3B prior to the injury when he was with other teams.
by SouthernCub on Apr 30, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, this is how I see it, too.
I’m just glad Lou is keeping him at the bottom of the order.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Yeah, the talk of Miles at leadoff...
REALLY disturbed me. The guy is below average at getting on base, and he compounds that with not being able to get extra-base hits or steal bases.
The team is using him in the role he’s best suited for (backup 2B). Unfortunately, they’re paying him too much.
by SouthernCub on Apr 30, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
in 2008
he played 732.3 innings.
499.2 of them were at 2b
172.1 were at short
61.0 were at third.
that doesn’t scream supersub to me. That says “I’m a second baseman, and I can play short, but they put me at third only when they absolutely have to.”
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree a bit...
Let’s use Mark DeRosa as a reference. Would you agree that he was a utility guy? He played 1239 innings in 2008. 670 of them were at 2B. But he only moved around out of necessity. In 2007, he played a greater proportion of his innings at 2B, because there was less need. But he was still a utility player, right?
By comparison, Miles didn’t play much SS or 3B because the Cardinals had options there that they played regularly. They had more need at 2B, so that’s where he played.
Caveat here: I didn’t say he was a GOOD utility player. My point was simply that he was BROUGHT IN to be a utility guy. Whether or not that was sound reasoning is a different matter.
by SouthernCub on Apr 30, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you about Miles
he’s not the utility player we were led to believe he was.
However, to me, Mark DeRosa was the starting second-baseman. He was brought to Chicago to play second, which is why Riot was moved to short. The fact that he could play lots of other positions was gravy.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say DeRosa was brought in to be a utility guy...
I’m saying he became the utility guy. So given that DeRosa was the utility guy and he had somewhat similar variability in the positions he played, I stated that Miles was brought in to be the utility guy.
DeRosa was brought in to play 2B, but became the utility guy out of necessity. Miles was brought in to be the utility guy, but has become a backup 2B because he can’t really play other positions.
by SouthernCub on Apr 30, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems like if you hit, Lou will try and find a place for you.
Hoffpauir can swing a bat, so he was given a shot in RF. I think if Miles had opened the year hitting well, he may have been rotated around some more.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Apr 30, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I got nothin'.
I don’t know if it’s the weather or other stuff I’ve got goin’ on or what, but my morale re: the Cubs is at a disturbing low. These humiliating blowouts (or near-blowouts) have got to stop.
I can accept almost any pitcher with either good stuff or veteran presence having a good game. (It’s pretty obvious which category Doug Davis falls into.) But to give up 10 runs to a team like the D’Backs (20 runs over the three-game series) just hurts and depresses.
I think Arizona revealed one of the key weaknesses of this Cubs team: no discernible speed in the starting lineup and, apparently, little capacity to contain the running game when Big Z isn’t on the mound.
There’s no way I’m giving up in April, but this has been a rough first month. Assuming this rain stops by tonight, let’s hope Sean Marshall can pitch the team to a win tonight so they can finish above .500 in April. Maybe if they can stick to that breakeven point long enough for everyone to get healthy, they can put together a surge in May.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
You brought up a point that I want to comment on
relating to the game yesterday. Everytime we had a man on first, their first move was BACK to the bag when Davis started his delivery towards home. His stretch delivery took any running game out of the equation somewhat. Our seats were next to the Cubs dugout and he froze every runner, even if he didn’t throw over.
Also, Soto’s shoulder has still got to be hurting, his velocity is way down. He was throwing seeds in ST and last year, not so much this year.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Good observation, thanks.
The D’Backs simply dominated the basepaths during the series. Sadly, if other teams had scouts in the crowd, we could see the running game being a major tactic used against the Cubs in upcoming series.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Oh, and I should add...
…even if the Cubs could’ve gotten a good lead at first, who is going to run? Soriano? Maybe, but his 40 SB days are probably behind him. Theriot? He’s yet to establish himself as an effective basestealer. RJ? I don’t believe he has much of a reputation as a basestealer, either. And from there the options get worse.
Joey Gathright is the only true speed threat on this team.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I think there's a lack of coaching on the base paths
The Cubs just do not look like a good team overall when they are running the bags. Watching Rich Harden take two steps off 2nd base even after the pitcher has delivered screams lack of coaching. I know he’s the pitcher, but no player should be doing that under any circumstance.
BB calls the Cubs players out a lot for their bad baserunning. I wish Bob had some input on the team because he’s got a lot of good ideas. Personally, I think he would be a fine replacement for Lou.
by dr stabbingworth on Apr 30, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
He's not intense enough.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Apr 30, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Bob Brenley?
I dunno. Doesn’t he ALWAYS look constipated?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Are the bowouts more painful than the close losses?
Maybe sometimes. I’m just hoping we can finally get Marshall a freakin’ win tonight.
For me, blowouts are just more depressing.
When you’re sitting there watching (or listening) and the game is so far out of reach that there’s little to no hope, it’s just…sad. I like to be able to pull at least a couple bright sides from just about any game, and close losses usually have those.
Maybe the starter throws a quality start or the bullpen comes in and shuts down the opponent after the starter gets lit up. Perhaps someone goes 3 for 3 or 3 for 4. At least the team is competitive in a close loss. Yesterday’s game was just a nightmare.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
when it's a really ridiculous blowout
like the Cincy games last year, I can laugh at them. I mean, Lieber gave up what, five home runs in three innings, and then Marshall or Gaudin, whoever came in for relief, he gave up at least three more. It was a circus.
“Regular blowouts” usually come when your team isn’t playing good defense, and there are errors, or just bad plays. Not getting to the bloop single time after time, or just missing the runner at first. Those are harder, since they usually come with the opposing pitcher being on his game, and driving the Cubs hitters back to the bench, K after K.
The close losses are harder, because I’m more in the game, gritting it out (my IEFD is VERY high; I could be Albert Pujols, if only I could hit, run, or field).
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I could laugh at Der Lieber Game, too...
…because, IIRC, the Cubs had been playing well before then. What worries me is there’s been one game in the last three series that, if not a blowout, has gotten fairly far out of reach:
- The 7-1 loss to the Reds on 4/23,
- The 8-2 loss to the Cards (aka, the Patton game) on 4/25 and
- The 10-0 loss to the D’Backs on 4/29.
The good news is the Cubs themselves have had one very strong win in each of those series. Nonetheless, I’d just like to see the team play a little more consistently – even in losses – and, obviously, get back to winning series.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Every game
in the Cubs-Dbacks series was a blowout, pretty much.
Insert witty and/or humorous signature here.
I can see your point
That last game had very few if any positives. It felt to me last year, even fairly early in the season, that this team could come back from anything, And they often did.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bleed Cubbie Blue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
