The myth that Derrek Lee is NOT declining...

No Trade Clause

would have been in the DERREK LEE thread, where this is ALREADY being discussed at length.

also deserved it’s own thread. Where the statististical analysis wouldn’t get swallowed up by 250 other comments that nobody bothered to read before commenting.

I have a hard time reading your post when you use stats to prove your so-called claim…then refuse the usage of stats as some times irrelevant, and instead favor qualitative analysis. I’m confused.

was “certified” and “mythified” by Al as a great post, and put in his “recommend” hall oif fame, so your response will be vilified and rejected here now as not a good post. That is how things seem to go around here.

It’s a rebuttal to last night’s post and IMO, a very good one.

Anybody who looks at Lee and doesn’t see a player in decline is wearing some major “Cubbie colored glasses”.

It’s a rebuttal to last night’s post and IMO, a very good one.

Anybody who looks at Lee and doesn’t see a player in decline is wearing some major “Cubbie colored glasses”.

I see DGU didn’t show his/her face.

Most of all I LOVE this:
Every time someone states an opinion that another person doesn’t like, the aggrieved person hysterically demands that you “prove it statistically.” Guess what stats geeks? Baseball is not 100% defined through statistics.

And your read on Lee is DEAD on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the following statement is a POOR EXAMPLE OF AN OPENING LINE TO A POST seeing as it was not a poor example. it was actually a classic example of using supporting data to your point.

A previous post arguing that Derrek Lee was not declining was a poor example of statistical analysis…

another thing that is wrong is your statement

I love Derrek Lee’s defense

the general post was not bad, but i believe DGU did a beter job in presenting his post, mainly cuz not once did he try to throw a jab at anyone (directly or indirectly) which you do more than once. If you asked me, you wrote this post more in spite than to create a good debate, or discussion.

and why did you feel the need to say this, and since you mentioned it what is your capacity in MLB

As someone that’s been involved in baseball for my entire life, I can tell you this from a scouting perspective:

this would have been better as either a comment to the Post about the myth in decline, or possibbe a perfect POint/Counterpoint post. throw the stats out, and you lose since you did not present the argument as well.

about players we admire.

I gaurantee that if BCB had been around in the late 60’s, we’d be having this exact same debate about Ernie Banks.

If it was 1996, it would be Ryne Sandberg…etc.

I was going to do a post about some fans and their obsession with some stats. Does that really tell the story about a player, especially our number 3 hitter. The cubs led the league in OBP last year and our best hitter(#3 hitter) drove in 90 runs. Not very clutch. How about OPS with risp(788) or OPS risp w/2 outs(672) or bases loaded OPS (504) or even late inning pressure(818). Which one of the stats from either DGU’s , vivaelpujols mutleyil or mine truly measures Lee’s worth. (all these stats are 2008)

I did this research only to prove what I knew from watching the games. That DLee is declining and we need to face this fact. And I do think we can/should trade him now. Just hopefully Lou can actually be the manager of the team, move him down in the order and give him a day off every week.

Derrek realize that he’s an awful hitter right now, and go to Lou and tell him that he should be moved down (like Sammy did with Dusty back in ’04).

I’m glad to see this post made the “recommended fanposts” hall of fame

This is my favorite Internet posting rule from another forum I frequent. If you ever disagree with a post there, it’s OK, just say why. That’s why we’re all there…to share our opinions and civilly debate when we disagree. Personally attacking someone or their credibility is the fastest way to get shown the door. I think it would be a very good idea to implement that rule here.

For the record:

I went through several months of extensive statistical training and testing for my job. Grouping several years of data together in a subjective way to make the results fit what you want is a perfect example of introducing bias into statistical analysis. I simply wanted to point this out, and show that looking at the year over year numbers paints a very different picture. Clear declines in BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+ for the last 2+ full seasons of an 8 season sample size would be considered a significant trend in statistical circles…not a mirage.

I am NOT a MLB scout, and guess what…who cares? I’m also not a certified mechanic, but I can fix my own car. I don’t have a degree in Food Science, but I can grow my own vegetable garden and cook my own food. I’ve played, coached, and watched baseball since I was 5 years old. I should have used the term "visual perspective" instead of "scouting perspective" to avoid the snarky comments. The bottom line is this…I can tell when a player doesn’t look right, and DLee’s approach and results haven’t consistently looked the same since he messed up his wrist. You don’t have to work for a Major League team to offer this opinion. If you agree with my take, fine. If you don’t, that’s fine too, just say why. Putting up a dozen posts questioning my right or credentials to offer this opinion doesn’t seem like a good use of time or blog space. Especially when no statistical or "visual" opinions to the contrary are cited.

If you don’t like the format or the tone of the post, there’s not much I can do about that as it’s your subjective opinion about posting structure. It was posted in the interest of objective analysis, and I commented very early that if Al felt it was redundant, he could do whatever he liked with it. Since he has not removed or merged it, I take it that I violated no protocol. I didn’t call out anyone specific. I made nothing but general statements, and some readers have apparently ascribed these to specific people. I played the ball, not the man. Now I hope everyone that reads this will do the same.

I wish I could un-recommend posts. My non-approval of a post should count as much as an approval. Please, for the umpteenth time, add this feature. Recommendations are worthless without their counterpart.

i love the debate and appreciate hearing both sides of the argument but some of these threads are getting exhausting to read.

A quote from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe:

“POPULATION [of the universe]: None. It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds but that not every one is inhabited. Therefore there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds. So, if every planet in the universe has a population of zero, then the entire population of the universe must also be zero, and any people you may actually meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.”
—

I’m just tired of my deranged imagination having all of these repetitive arguments.