The Flipside of David Patton

by tim815 on Apr 5, 2009 8:07 AM CDT

Many BCBers are somewhere on the David Patton bandwagon. Either 'he's looking better than Gaudin/Vicaino', 'Reed Johnson likes him', or 'I wish we could get his full rights from Colorado for someone with no future.' While you are welcome to supply your own acceptable PTBNL list on that topic here, that's not where I'm going with this.

As mentioned earlier on BCB, Donald Veal has made the Pirates 25 man roster. Are you interested in getting him back if he continues to struggle for Pittsburgh, would you prefer a Patton-esque deal (the Buccos have upgraded their lower levels of their system, according to the Pirates blog), or should Hendry play hardball in getting a decent prospect back?

I guess I'm ready for the season with a post like this.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Cubs are a playoff caliber team

Wasting a roster spot on a Single A pitcher who is clearly not ready for the big leagues and would be a high A ball or double A ball otherwise is RIDICULOUS. We don’t have the luxury of a great and deep bullpen to be wasting time on David Patton’s future upside.

by BLou on Apr 5, 2009 9:02 AM CDT reply actions

This is exactly the kind of thinking that has the Astros where they are today.

The way to win now includes bringing up unproven players and giving them a chance to out-play middling veterans with no upside.

We project to win the division by 10 games, and cannot even use a SINGLE, bullpen spot on an unproven player? Are you serious?

We are 6 months from setting our playoff roster, and cannot even use a SINGLE, bullpen spot on an unproven player? Is this some kind of delayed April-fools joke?

We are constantly criticized for a weak farm system, and cannot even use a SINGLE, bullpen spot on an unproven player? Is this BLou self-parody, made out of opening day good-natured jokiness?

The reality is that the Cubs not only can afford to use a spot for this, they probably should use more than one roster spot for experiments on risky players with upside.

Happy Opening Day!

by DGU on Apr 5, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

This isn't about giving a kid a chance, rather it is about wasting a roster spot on a kid who should be a Single A or Double A at this stage

There is a DISTINCTION. A very important DISTINCTION. David Patton is not major league material at this stage. To thrust him onto a major league roster for a team that is gunning for the playoffs and not some baseball purgatory like Pittsburgh is awful decision for the young man’s developmental program and for the ballclub.

by BLou on Apr 5, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions

So your sweet Lou

made an awful decision?

by sue369 on Apr 5, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions

The keeping of Patton does not mean he will be on the post-season roster

and that’s the distinction you seem to be missing. He may be back in AA – in TN in the Cubs’ system – in a month because Hendry was willing to keep him on Opening Day.

Of course, Lou seems to think he’s more ready than you and I do; I’m tempted to ask when you began to think you know more than Lou, although I’m not sure my Opening Day jovialty will come through if I ask it.

Happy Opening Day!

by DGU on Apr 5, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions

The Cubs can not send him down

If they don’t keep him on the 25 man roster for the REGULAR season he goes back to the Rockies. Post Season I think they can leave him off if they choose.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 5, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions

They can send him down if they work out a deal with the Rox.

Happy Opening Day!

by DGU on Apr 5, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions

Correct.

And if he fails at the ML level, I believe the Cubs will make such a deal.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Apr 6, 2009 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions

Patton needs to prove to me

That he can pitch at a mjor league level against good hitters. Smardjza, Guzman and Gaudin have all done that.

"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti

by wrigleyrocker12 on Apr 5, 2009 9:10 AM CDT reply actions

not ready for prime time

good prospect now, return him to CO, trade Gaudin to Rox for PTBNL—-Patton

put him in Iowa and get him seasoned.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Apr 5, 2009 10:10 AM CDT reply actions

Trade

Why would the Rockies do this?

by dmlichte on Apr 5, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions

the rockies

would have the upper hand in these negotiations. They know that the cubs would like to keep him, so they would do their best to get what they want.

There's nothing wrong with this team that more pitching, more fielding and more hitting couldn't help......"--Bill Buckner

by laidbackliam on Apr 5, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions

I haven't been this excited about a pitcher since Carmen Pignatello

by bluekoolaide on Apr 5, 2009 12:42 PM CDT reply actions

Exactly

David Patton “MAY” have a major league future. But if not for being a Rule V pickup his ticket to High A ball or Double A ball would have been punched three weeks ago. And a Cub team that is in hot pursuit of a playoff berth is precisely the WRONG situation to be wasting a roster spot on Patton.

by BLou on Apr 5, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions

You are arguing with the wrong people

It is Lou that is said to be high on him, if he weren’t he would have been cut a long time ago.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 5, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions

oh, you mean

that Lou may….uh…..might…um…. could be wrong? ;-)

by sue369 on Apr 5, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes but which one ?

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 5, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions

i re-read my post

and it is about DONALD VEAL. i guess i should have been more clear with a sentence like, ‘if we keep shark, we should win the division by two dozen games, but if patton breaks camp with the team, even for a week, we will doubtless lose ninety games.’

but the post is about donald veal (unless you want to discuss PTNML candidates). sorry for the confusion.

by tim815 on Apr 5, 2009 1:10 PM CDT reply actions

re: Veal

The thing about Veal is that while he had a good ERA through much of spring, and did make the Bucs’ club, he also gave up more walks than innings he pitched. So, the very thing the plagued Veal in the Cubs’ system is still plaguing him.

Personally, I feel like getting Rule V’d and potentially sent back is one of the few things that might make him useful to the Cubs before he runs out of time and becomes a minor league FA. It’s this kind of experience which might get him to change his approach to pitching.

As long as he’s giving up a walk an inning he won’t be a successful ML pitcher. Sure the Pirates might keep an ineffective pitcher on their roster all season long. We certainly run the risk of losing him to the Bucs and of him figuring it out with them in a year or two, and being a part of the Pedro Alvarez – Andrew McCutchen – Daniel Moskos (snicker) winning Pirates.

But I think if the Pirates do send him back, then he’ll know he’s not ready, and maybe our coaches will be able to teach him a thing or two. With Veal, I don’t know what the problem is – it may be that he’s coachable, but simply physically unable to control his stuff. And, if that’s the case, then letting him go is, again, the right choice.

Happy Opening Day!

by DGU on Apr 5, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions

It's not a trend

but the Pirates did pay Tampa Bay to keep Evan Meek (who handed the Cubs a couple games in April last year) in their system. I could see them doing the same with Veal.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Apr 6, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions

Apples and Oranges

as I see it. The Cubs pen is just not strong at this point. Blue Mike says Patton is not ready, well then is Gaudin? What other options are there for the Cubs to pursue? Keep Shark up? Who else are the Cubs going to get? Cubs options are very limited, Lou likes Patton, CASE FREAKING CLOSED, The chief has spoken. Get it.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Apr 5, 2009 4:01 PM CDT reply actions

+1

by sue369 on Apr 5, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions

Excellent point and I agree.

I’m fine with the Patton move. Sometimes you just have to roll the dice – even when you’re a playoff-caliber quality team like the Cubs. Lights-out bullpen guys aren’t hanging around the waiver wire sippin’ pina coladas waiting to be snapped up. Any discard the Cubs picked up could just easily turn out as bad as Patton MIGHT be – without Patton’s upside. Maybe this kid will screw the pooch a la Carmen Pigniatello last season, or maybe he shocks the National League (so to speak) this season.

Oh, and regarding Veal, as DGU points out, it doesn’t sound like he’s got his control issues ironed out, so I’m really ambivalent about whether the Cubs get him back. From what I understand, the Cubs organization has plenty – plenty – of mid-level pitching prospects to work with.

"Let it begin! Let it begin!" ~ Rhino

by daver on Apr 6, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions