Sean Marshall, Cubs' Bullpen Step Up In 4-2 Win Over Brewers
by Al on May 10, 2009 4:30 PM CDT
in Recaps
270 comments
You can come back in off the ledge, for a little while, at least.
Sean Marshall threw five solid innings without his best stuff and three Cubs relievers shut down the Brewers and the Cubs salvaged the final game of the series in Milwaukee, 4-2, and wound up with a winning road trip and went over .500 on the road for the season at 9-8.
Despite the absence of Aramis Ramirez, the Cubs' four-run third inning was evidence that the team can use power (a two-run homer from Alfonso Soriano) and then also a long-sequence offense (the other two runs scored with three straight hits and a wild pitch, the Cubs taking advantage of shoddy pitching by Jeff Suppan). Sean Marshall, who laid down a perfect sacrifice bunt in that four-run inning, was constantly in trouble; he allowed five hits and three walks, but managed to keep Milwaukee to just two runs in his five innings (at 97 pitches, it was definitely time for him to come out) and Angel Guzman, Carlos Marmol and Kevin Gregg shut the Brewers down for the last four innings to preserve the victory.
Lou seems to be, as we have discussed often here, using this season much as he did the first couple of months of 2007, as sort of an "extended spring training". There are so many new players on the club from last year -- and even more in the last week or so with all the injuries -- that Lou doesn't exactly know how to use them properly (yeah, I know. Some of you would argue that Lou won't know how to use them right even if he has all year). The idea that the six months of the regular season this year didn't matter and that the Cubs would just slide into the postseason and we could start paying attention then wasn't a good notion. 2009 appears, at this juncture, to resemble 2007, a year of struggle where the Cubs didn't nail down the division title until the regular season's final Friday night -- and even then, it got tougher than it probably should have been after an unexpected sweep by the Marlins in Florida.
Comparison points:
2009 after 31 games: 17-14 2008 after 31 games: 18-13 2007 after 31 games: 16-15
Let's look at the good things this team still has: a solid starting rotation that will miss Carlos Zambrano for only one more start (and his replacement did a nice job in his first appearance); a left fielder who is off to a great start and may be on the way to a MVP type season; a center fielder who we had written off but who is contributing every day; a shortstop who has shown unexpected power; and several backups who have, despite our criticism of Jim Hendry's acquisition of them this past offseason, have all contributed to victories.
That's not to say that this team doesn't need or won't need more help; Derrek Lee may wind up on the disabled list. But if he does, the Cubs can call up Jake Fox, who has been demolishing Triple-A pitching. Fox really isn't a very good defensive player -- OK, he's pretty bad. But I suspect with his bat, we could live with him platooning with Micah Hoffpauir at first base. Ryan Freel singled in his first Cub at-bat this afternoon (and then got picked off second base by Jason Kendall. Fortunately, that didn't matter). The bullpen should feel better after the four innings with only one hit allowed this afternoon. Kevin Gregg, in particular, is looking better as he gets more consistent save opportunities.
As most of you know, I am an optimist by nature. That doesn't mean I'm blind to the shortcomings of this team, only that I think they will overcome them and win. Perhaps winning the NL Central, or even getting into the postseason as the wild card, under those circumstances will make the 2009 Cubs better prepared for the playoffs. This year's team has had quite a bit of adversity in only one month's time. Under Lou Piniella over the last two-plus years, they have constantly shown the ability to overcome adversity (at least until October came).
The Cubs now go into a portion of the schedule that should be to their advantage -- nine of the next 12 games are against teams they should be able to handle if they intend to continue to contend. There are six games vs. the Padres, three vs. the Astros (who they have already defeated four of five this year), and three against St. Louis, a team they'll have to beat if they want to win the division. Enjoy the off day -- the team surely will, to rest injured bodies and gear up for the homestand starting Tuesday.
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GO CUBS GO!!!
Guy at bar: "Do you just like that hat or do you like Chicago?"
Me: "I'm in Love, Obsessed and Addicted to the Chicago Cubs!"
by KC in OK on May 10, 2009 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Guzman did really well
I hope he can start stepping up to take the pressure off Marmol. Would be nice to get someone else going out in the ’pen.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 4:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Guzman has always had a good arm. All he’s lacked is confidence and experience. Today should be a big step toward both.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 10, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's got the nasty stuff/power arm Lou loves
I hope Angel can put a few good outings together.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guzman
I think Guzman should take over for Heilman as the 7th inning guy. At least give him some chances.
If Wells is decent as a reliever that should help out also.
There is hope for this team. The biggest question mark right now is Soto. He just looks lost at the plate.
by jeff_pico on May 10, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consistency is Gusman's downfall
I agree he needs to take over for Heilman some times but as soon as he gets a few good games in a row he implodes. This is a big key to our pitching staff. If Guzman becomes a stable force how we have 4 dependable guys for the late innings.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on May 10, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
7th inning guy
It would be nice to see more games where a “7th inning guy” is unnecessary, due to the starter going 7 or 8 (or dare I say 9?) innings once in a while.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on May 10, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone during the game thread
had a stat that said we lead the league in starters going past the 6th inning.
Our starters are fine. The weak underbelly of every team is middle relief.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
soto
As long as Geo is calling good games, the hitting can wait. Granted, we could use all the production we can get right now with Arami and DLee hurting, but the main aspect of Soto’s game is his defense. I’d rather have things the way they are now then have him batting .300+ and calling bad games.
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
.300 isn't required
But .260 is
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 11, 2009 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice Win
but more importantly is the day off tomorrow. They need it more than ever right now.
I didn't get the players I wanted in the offseason!! Hopefully I get what I want in the Regular Season---The World Series Trophy!! Go Cubbies!!
by cubsluver22 on May 10, 2009 4:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Day off
I think with the stresses over this weekend and such the fans need a day off too!
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by cubstoseriesby100 on May 10, 2009 4:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wait
Sean Marshall, who laid down a perfect sacrifice bunt in that four-run inning
I was under the impression that no one on our team could bunt.
Excellent win, and to realize that we’re only one game off our pace from last year, well. The way people have been talking around here, you’d think we were 0-12 or something.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 4:51 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
That's what I was thinking when I saw that bunt.
It obviously didn’t matter that much because Soriano homered Scales in, but still.
Also, Scales had another nice day with the bat. He’s looking like a useful backup 2B, and as a switch-hitter a good guy to have on the bench.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 10, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's good to hear.
I’m really glad he’s getting his shot.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to pick a fight here
but comments like these frustrate me
The way people have been talking around here, you’d think we were 0-12 or something.
I can’t speak for all people because some individuals are clearly at an extreme, but I know that many people, myself included, have seen the Cubs squander wins with all around bad play. It is very frustrating to me that this is supposed to be a place that people come to talk about what they’re seeing in the game and if they point out concerns and disturbing trends, they’re looked down upon as pessimists and ledge jumpers. I don’t believe I am acting as though this team is 0-12, I believe that I am acting as though this team has lost several games that good teams win…. that their bullpen and inability to cash in on big inning situations has led to them losing games that, at least going into the season, I expected them to win.
by dmlichte on May 10, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
and yet
in comparison with a team that won 97 games, this year’s Cubs are one game behind that pace.
So they’re not losing games at a significantly accelerated pace. Either that means that the bad plays aren’t killing us, or they’re not actually playing as badly as we are perceiving.
It’s been a very frustrating three days, but look at the numbers, and realize that it’s not as bad as it seems.
that their bullpen and inability to cash in on big inning situations has led to them losing games that, at least going into the season, I expected them to win.
Which is, to date, one game, right?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
IMO the Cubs “should have” won both the first and second games of this Brewers series. The Cubs had “big inning” situations in both games and failed to even get one run in either. I put “should have” in quotes because baseball is full of should have situations, but good teams cash in those types of situations. So no, I don’t think its just one game, the Cubs team I expected, has had more than one game I believe they should have won.
by dmlichte on May 10, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you went back and looked at 2007 or 2008...
… or any other year, you’d probably have seen games that the Cubs “should have” won.
There are a couple games the Cubs have won this year that they “should have” lost, too. Those things tend to even out over the course of the year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 10, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
'should have'
I think its an encouraging sign that they ‘could have’ won the first 2 games. I don’t think the bullpen is doomed. I’m convinced that Lou will keep trying to find things that work. Maybe that will be the killer part of the year and they won’t be able to fix it but the starting pitching is good enough to keep them in alot of games and they will win their fair share.
by jeff_pico on May 10, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're misunderstanding
the common meme is that this team isn’t as good as last year’s team. But we’re only one victory off their pace. If, then as you say, we have lost more than one game we should have won, then we’ve also, by that same definition, won more than one game we should have lost. All that, with a starting lineup that has played precisely six times.
I take this to be a good sign. This team has more victories in it than has been demonstrated, and is actually, possibly a BETTER team than last year’s team.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
2009 team better than 2008? Com’on drew.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 10, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this team
has played to one game of last year’s pace, without consistent production from:
Soto
Rami
Lee
or Bradley.
If even two of them can start firing on all cylinders, how is any other team going to stop us?
It doesn’t FEEL as good as last year’s team. But perhaps that’s more a sense of familiarity than anything else. The team changed much more significantly between 2008-2009 than it did 2007-2008.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
plus Hendry has shown that
before the trade deadline he will tweak the roster to improve it.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 10, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1, Drew...
… you just said what i’ve been struggling to put in to words for the last couple of weeks. I hate sitting at a game and hearing “man this team sucks”. I hate having the news flip on and hearing my roommates talk as though the season is already over.
We are still in the mix. We are winning at roughly the same pace as last year. We haven’t been eliminated, and i’ve yet to see a problem with the team that i don’t think could be fixed with either time, or as Cubbie-Tim suggests, a roster move or two.
The offensive production is down… this can be attributed to injury and slumps… one has to expect both of these things will even out eventually. The defensive security isn’t as great as it was last year, but when have we had all of our players at their best defensive positions? Rarely. The starting pitching has been fine, so it comes down to the bullpen. That may click, and it may not. Either way, saying this TEAM is done, a failure, is wildly inaccurate. There are holes to plug, but there is time to do it.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 11, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pace
I guess perhaps I take issue with your using last year’s pace to judge this year’s team. I don’t think that simply by showing a 18-13 pace versus a 17-14 pace is a fair indication of how a team is going to perform relative to each other over the course of a 162 game season. I am not saying that it is totally invalid, but I don’t believe that it even comes close to telling the whole story.
by dmlichte on May 10, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all I'm saying
is that when you put the W-L statistic in perspective, it certainly puts the lie to the concept that all is lost.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs might have only been one game better at this point in 2008
But there were fewer reasons to worry about what they would do next. Without even getting into the production of Lee, Soto and Bradley (and I think MIlton’s turning it around), the Cubs didn’t lose their best player for six weeks at this point last year.
Frankly, I’m still not THAT concerned about the lineup (or the rotation, for that matter). But one thing missing from Al’s recap was how close the Brewers came to beating Marmol AND Gregg (though Gregg was MUCH better than Marmol yesterday).
If I’m Hendry, I look for another bullpen arm.
by elgato on May 11, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they didn't score
on either Marmol or Gregg.
I don’t mind getting another bullpen arm.
I don’t remember exactly when Sori went down last year, but he had two stints — one early, one later.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 11, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Sori only had one long stint last year
When he broke his hand. He hurt his leg in late 2007.
One silver lining to the Zambrano injury is that the Cubs have a chance to see what Wells (and now Ascanio) can do. One or both could be big down the stretch.
BUT … if neither is any good, Patton doesn’t improve and/or Guzman doesn’t find consistency, Hendry will need to pick up another bullpen arm.
And, no, the Brewers didn’t score against Marmol or Gregg. But Marmol’s control issues are a big concern. Like I said, Gregg seems to be finding a groove, though he did walk a man to let Braun come up as the tying run.
by elgato on May 11, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except
good teams don’t always cash in on “big inning” situations. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. Usually they do more often than not and hey at the end of the year maybe we will be able to look back and say hey the Cubs sure did capitalize when they had the chance.
by Villeslgr on May 10, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
expectations were high coming into this year, and reasonably so. Obviously it’s still early, but there’s no point pretending our best player isn’t hurt for two months, or that the pen is pretty darn bad. Let’s not confuse pragmatism with pessimism.
by shoemile on May 10, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we cannot use statistics
for RISP LOB, or leadoff strikeouts, or leadoff walks by our bullpen, or whatever, and yet ignore the most important statistics of all — that, at 31 games into the season last year, we had won one more game than 31 games into the season this year.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
and i don’t see the point in standing on the ledge either, but there are flaws this team has that are troubling moving forward.
Yes, things could be much worse. But we all want to win, and when we see guys consistently performing poorly, people want to jettison them. If stated respectfully (which, admittedly, is rare), I don’t see the problem
by shoemile on May 10, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine.
And, to be truthful, I wasn’t singling anyone out in particular with the comment about being 0-12. last night, when I got into the game threads, we were in it, up by one run. But the attitude on the gamethread made me think, before I knew the score, that we were losing, and badly.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
“team sucks, season’s over” attitude is just a waste of breath. I don’t condone it, but like I said, I think it stems from high expectations people have had.
I wasn’t in the game thread so I can’t speak for anyone, but the only guy on this staff with an era under 4 is lilly, and that’s cause for pessimism. I’d much rather read optimistic comments like yours, and they do have a solid foundation, but expectations are high. It’d be nice if people could state their concerns respectfully, but, well, it’s the internet.
by shoemile on May 10, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
expectations are high, it's true.
and so are the ERAs.
But I keep coming back to the only stat that matters — wins. One less over 31 days. Even if that holds up, we STILL win what, 90 games this season? That’s gonna be good enough for the division.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily
The cards would win the division and the brewers would finish in second place if we’re stretching the current standings out the entire year. This division has some good teams. Obviously I don’t think all these teams will win 90 plus, but I don’t see a reason to think these teams will surely fall off.
by shoemile on May 10, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree with Drew here
90 wins is likely good enough. We have a situation where the Cubs are playing well under expectations based on what we have on paper, while the Brewers and Cards are playing above expectations.
I think the saying is everything regresses towards the mean. So, provided we actually get our A-team on the field for a stretch, we’ll start winning a lot more games and take over first place. It just may not happen until after the All-Star break.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on May 11, 2009 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All things considered, all is well.
As long as we can hang around the first half, we’ll be fine. I still believe we’ll win the division.
In the long run, I think we may actually be in a better situation this year. No one is expecting as much from this team, and I firmly believe that the first Cubs team to win it all will be one that just sneaks into the playoffs, so to speak, where not as much is expected from them. The whole “it’s gonna happen” thing from last year, in my opinion, is what got to them and made them play tight.
All is not lost by a longstretch.
by reedjohnson on May 11, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The most frustrating part of this season...
for me, at least, has been our inconsistency. Today’s game was great—our pitching was excellent, we had plenty of hits, and we held a very, very hot team (16 wins in their last 21) to only 2 runs. It’s hard to watch games like today’s and then see the debacle that was yesterday and have confidence in which one is our real team.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 10, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
both
last year, there were games we blew late, too.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly right, Drew
Last year, this game was one I thought we should have won. Not much you can do about it, when the team you’re playing fights until the end.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 10, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that game!
Wood was AWFUL. Blew the whole thing in about three minutes. Gee, thanks for bringing that up. :P
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Needed an example.
I remember that game, too. I was at work, and I was inventing new words in English in my head.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 10, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we're ahead of our pace in '07.
Of course, then we went 6-15 over the next 21 games, so you really can’t say what “pace” we are on.
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
by Goodie1969 on May 10, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course I can.
scroll up. I just did.
We cannot predict the future. We can predict what we think this team, based on the statistics so far, will do.
Those statistics right now have us one game behind last year’s pace.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, incorrectly worded.
Should have written…it’s tough to say what pace we are on.
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
by Goodie1969 on May 10, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do our opponents to date
compare to their last seaon starts as well? Are we beating improved teams, losing to lesser teams, etc
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 10, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the season so far
4/6-4/8 — Won 2 out of 3 @ Astros
4/10-4/12 — Won 2 out of 3 @ Brewers
4/13-4/15 — Won 1 out of 2 vs Rockies
4-16-4/18 — Won 2 out of 3 vs Cards
4/21-4/23 — Won 1 out of 3 vs Reds
4/24-4/26 — Won 1 out of 3 @ Cardinals
4/28-4/29 — Won 1 out of 3 @ DBacks
4/30-5/3 — Won 3 out of 4 vs Marlins
5-4/5/5 — Won 1 out of 2 vs Giants
5/6-5/7 — Won 2 out of 2 @ Astros
5/8-5/10 — Won 1 out of 3 @ Brewers
Taking the series against the Marlins, I think, was big. Fighting the Cardinals to a draw, I think was big. We obviously pwn the Astros. Losing the series to the Reds was bad.
However, we’ve yet to be swept, either.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cards
we were also rolling go into what was supposed to be a fourth game at wrigley in the cards series. If that game doesn’t get rained out we had lilly going at home, where hes been great, when he was in the middle of his scoreless innings streak. We should have taken 3 out of 4 and taken a lot more momentum into that reds series. That rain out really screwed us over
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 6:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On one hand, maybe...
… but at the time i think there was much rejoicing, as it allowed some time for injured players to get healthy. At least, that was the hope…
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 11, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg seems to
be proving himself. Hope it conitnues. Guzman did very well today too. Great win for them and mayby the day off will give them lots of energy for the game on Tues.
by sue369 on May 10, 2009 4:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey the pen did well today
That means this win’s on lou, correct?
by shoemile on May 10, 2009 4:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
but he only gets bullpen credit
when the pen blows the game, right?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 10, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lou
everybody loves ragging lou for the bullpen, but dustys bullpen decisions were awful. (hawkins closing)
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty always gets a lot of grief for Hawkins' lousy performance as a closer, but did he
really have a lot of coices? As I recall, the pickings were pretty slim back then.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 11, 2009 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could have used Ryan Dempster at the end of 2004.
Dempster was healthy and threw fairly well in relief in August & September 2004.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 11, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty also
stuck with Hawkins in early ’05, when Dempster was MORE than ready to close.
by elgato on May 11, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this case, I think the grief is warranted
Hawkins had a miserable track record previously as a closer, and Dempster was available
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 11, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Dempster did have 2 saves in '04, but he was coming back from
his injury and was just starting to pitch again. I’m not saying it was a great decision, but when Hawkins was acquired, Hendry made a point of saying he was an option as a closer. His save percentage has always been lousy other than 2000, but at the time he was really the only option they really had. Prior to his injury, Dempter was a starter. It’s easy to say he should have been closing in"04 based on what we know now, but when Borowski went down, Hawkins was the guy with the experience. Did Dusty keep marching him out there after he had failed a lot? Yes, but the move to Dempster was the sure thing you make it out to be.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 11, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woah, woah -- where did I say it was a 'sure thing'?
And I actually understood the decision in 2004 (Al referenced the year, not me).
In 2005, however, it was a really crappy decision based on 2004 alone. Not just pitching performance, but attitude. Nevertheless, there was LaTroy in the ninth at the start of the year.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 11, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The truth about LaTroy Hawkins in 2004
I don’t want to lionize the guy, but I feel like Hawkins wasn’t nearly as bad as most people thought and still think. So I guess I am the Official BCB Hawkins Defender. Here goes.
1. Everyone gets on Hawkins for blown saves. Any stats based on saves and holds, taken out of context, can be very misleading, because they group together so many very different situations. A three-run lead is very different from a one-run lead, for example. And a pitcher that blows a save and leaves the game tied has performed very differently than one who blows a save and leaves with his team trailing. And, especially in the fairly high run environment of today, it’s even worth noting that there’s a big difference between leaving the team behind by 1 run or 2 (though it’s smaller today than in the mid-to-late 90s).
2. Hawkins appeared in a disproportionate number of one-run save chances in 2004. He was also a somewhat unusual reliever. Most relievers have more of a boom-or-bust profile — more shut-down innings and more blow-up innings. Hawkins had more of a starter-like profile — many one-run innings, but few enough that his ERA was still very good. This is in part a natural statistical result (assuming basically stochastic performance batter-to-batter, which is a fallacy) of allowing a lower OBP (he walked very few batters) and higher BA and SLG than a typical reliever at the same level, and also came from his consistency that year (he almost never lost his command or stuff entirely, while many relievers do so spectacularly, but also never really had “electric” stuff that he could use to will his way out of a jam).
So save percentage makes Hawkins look really bad, but when he blew all those one-run saves he almost always left with the game still tied. The Cubs won a lot of his blown saves. They weren’t good performances, but they were significantly less bad than the average blown save. He kept the team in the game. And if you average those bad-but-not-devastating performances together with the good ones, you get an OK season of relief. In terms of his effectiveness as a closer, he was not nearly as good as his ERA made him look (when a reliever blows up, typically many of the runs he gives up don’t matter much, which was not the case with Hawkins in 2004) but not nearly as bad as the save percentage makes him look. He was a marginal major league closer, probably better suited to a different role, but also probably the best guy for the job on the 2004 Cubs.
by aldimond on May 11, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hello, everyone.
I did not bring up 2004. Please stop saying/implying that I did.
Thank you very much!
Sincerely,
Shanghai Badger
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 11, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tak it easy Badger, you just got caught in the crossfire. I wasn't aiming
my remarks at you, just in the general direction. I was just making the point that it wasn’t quite as cut and dried as the numbers indicate, that’s all. No harm, no foul.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 11, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
s'alright
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 11, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give Soto some credit
for the way Marshall held on and the way the bullpen dominated. He did a great job calling today’s game.
by santo4hof on May 10, 2009 5:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
All of the injuries...
All of the struggles. All of the adversity. All of these things will make the Cubs a stronger, more balanced team as the year goes on. When they are finally at full strength again, they will have a better bench, they will have more versatility & more confidence all the way around because of what they will have been through. Additionally, we know that Jim Hendry will not sit on his hands when it comes to acquiring any pieces that they may need.
So, everyone, stick with it. Don’t give up. This is going to shape up to be a memorable year, I know it will. You read it here first…
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 5:22 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think anyone is giving up, and I'd bet most will stick with it,
but when we are finally at full strength again, we may have a giant hole to climb out of. That’s my concern. The personnel we have don’t exactly inspire a lot of confidence in me. It’s possible we will be better than we are now, but what if we aren’t? We’re then going to be counting on a GM who made some real head-scratching moves in the offseason to pull out a miracle trade from his bag of tricks and rescue the season.
I guess the only thing that really matters is that after 162 games have been played, we have at least one more win than anyone else in the division, but looking at the state of things right now, it’s hard to project that possibility with anything other than blind hope. I’m not giving up or going away, just being realistic.
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
by Goodie1969 on May 10, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thankfully,
nobody else is putting us in a huge hole
by tim815 on May 10, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's true.
I guess the division would have to be significantly better than us for that to happen, and that’s probably not the case. I think we can make the playoffs, but it will definitely be an adventure. I guess that’s okay, too. Nothing worth having comes easily. (Insert TWSS joke here).
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
by Goodie1969 on May 10, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huge hole
We’ve had injuries since the first weekend of the season when bradley hurt his groin and since things have gotten much worse and we’re still only 2.5 games back this year. Aramis has been hurt twice this year, Lee is hurt (and struggling), marmol was banged up, Z is hurt, harden hasn’t been as dominant as he was for us last year, Soto was hurt and is still kind of struggling, we still haven’t gotten the bullpen straightened out, and dempster hasn’t looked too good. We’ve made it through all of that and we are still in a pretty good position. Since Ramirez is our only long term problem right now (which is a big hole to fill), i wouldn’t worry about losing too much ground.
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN just told me
we are 17-2 when we score 4+ runs and 0-12 when we score < 4.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 10, 2009 5:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"...And 17-0 when the Cubs score at least one more run than their opponents on any given day."
ESPN is awesome…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on May 10, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone got numbers on any other teams for those categories?
How do the Cubs compare?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 10, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone made a comment
stating that they knew how we compared but I’m not sure if a link or a source was posted.
by Villeslgr on May 10, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WC
I’m sort of convinced that the Cubs will have to go the road of the WC in order break their championship drought. The adversity, chemistry, and the eventual late season “hot-streak” these teams have to experience may prove to be the “key” for the Cubs to win a title.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on May 10, 2009 5:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We'll take it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 10, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No question
Whatever way it comes is fine by me.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on May 10, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we can get in
and win 11… i don’t care how ugly the getting in process was.
Even if drives me nuts while it happens. :-P
by Allie on May 10, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That ledge was getting scary
but watching the Golden Girls ( and Reds/Cards game) kept me occupied. and gee Al I can’t imagine who you were referring to that would think Lou would not know how to use the bullpen properly if he had them all season or say maybe two plus seasons.
I am pretty sure most of us need the day off as much as the players. I am going to see some rare French films from the 30s. I hope the rest of you enjoy yourselves.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2009 5:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i hope that we get those
PTBNL from baltimore and oakland soon.
i don’t imagine any of them can play third base at the big league level.
or pitch well out of the pen
by tim815 on May 10, 2009 5:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
17-14
Soto has done nothing at the plate.
Bradley is still hitting below .200
Lee has not produced at all.
No lefty in the pen
Z and Rami on the DL.
Miles and Reed have not hit.
Overall I think the Cubs have done well considering.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on May 10, 2009 6:19 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
amen.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However...
… the other side of that sentiment is that Soto has to start hitting, Bradley needs to pick it up, Lee needs to be a middle of the order hitter, the pen needs to be better, Z and Aramis need to come back healthy and Miles and Johnson need to improve.
by dmlichte on May 10, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of like the idea
that we have lots of ways to get better, but are still doing decently in the win column.
I’d hate to have peaked already.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If all of that happens
the Cubs will run away with the division. It is pretty amazing to be over .500 when you have guys playing on a regular basis who are hitting under .200 and a few others damn close. If everyone can get healthy and at least play up to their career averages, this team will do everything most of us hoped it would this year.
by qccub on May 10, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe they're all just saving it
for October. :P
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea but thats the point...
we don’t necessarily need all of those to happen, since we are 2.5 GB of the division without any of them
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Imagine if everyone were playing at or exceeding expectations, and we were 17-14 and tied for third place. There would be no upside.
by ChipSet on May 10, 2009 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why argue how this year...
Compares to ‘07 or ’08? We’re playing with scraps at this point, and still managing to stay above .500. I could care less if we sneak into the playoffs as a Wild Card, or win the division by 10 games… let’s just get into that crazy crapshoot in October again and enjoy this season along the way.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on May 10, 2009 6:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it's time
To start worrying about Geo. He’s been making constant outs, and looking bad doing so. Lou also says Wells will be inserted into the bullpen once Z is back, so who goes? I’m hoping Patton. I think it’s time to give up on him and move on.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 10, 2009 6:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Patton
I loved the idea of giving him a shot, but he just doesn’t look ready, and the situations that Lou uses him in shows that Lou and Rothschild obviously don’t trust him a whole lot.
I think part of the problem with Geo is that he always thinks defense first (which he should) and he’s had to deal with close to 20 pitchers already this season. He’ll figure it out though, you don’t put up the numbers he did last year as a fluke.
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right, but
Rick Wilkins would like a word with you
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 11, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was born a ramblin man, but
Looking at the record for this year and year’s past as well as looking around at other teams it appears that the Cubs are not that bad off while obviously not playing their best baseball. The thing is other teams in our division are playing pretty well while we are struggling due to injuries, less than stellar bullpen play and having some important pieces not producing.
Soriano has been playing damn well, Fukodome has as well and he has also played a pretty good center, Bradley was horrid but appears to atleast be moving towards the Mendoza line. And in an oversimplified view if Soriano and Fukodome can continue the way they have been, Bradley would only need to replicate Fukodome’s season last year and I would say that the outfield this year would be a considerable improvement over last years.
Obviously Soto has struggled at the plate and Ramirez is now injured. Add to that Lee being bothered by a nagging injury and not performing at the level that many expect of him and things can look pretty bleak. However, Lee according to some hasn’t done anything in awhile and at the moment Hoff has been giving us some production at 1st and I haven’t seen him to be a horrid fielder over there. Ramirez hopefully will be back and I would imagine that Soto will eventually improve at the plate even if he doesn’t approach his numbers from last year.
Our starters are starting to go deeper and if Lou and Hendry can figure out a way to get our bullpen to perform I think we will win the division this year. If anything keeps this team out of the playoffs it will probably be the bullpen. If the bullpen can’t produce it puts more pressure on the starters and the offense. Also it could lead to Lou using certain players too much trying to keep wins from becoming losses.
While they are obviously not looking top tier in game, I think that at this time the most important thing about their play is that their record keep them in contention. It’s a long season and the poor execution can be fixed alot easier than trying to turn losses into wins once the games have already been played.
If we are able to maintain place in the standings and get healthy the offense will come.
Sorry I have no stats to include to cement any type of argument but through watching the games I find it hard to imagine that this team is a complete mess.
by Villeslgr on May 10, 2009 6:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
comparing years
If you want to compare years, look at 2007. By June we were written off until Aramis hit the walk-off against the Brewers and then we took off. The Phillies just hung tough last year, and then the push they made for the playoffs carried them straight through to the title. Like you said, we just need to hang tough and stay in it, which we have done, and we’ll make our run.
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great game
I was nervous in the 8th and 9th. I thought Santo was going to have a heart attack while broadcasting. My only comment to Al’s post is about Soriano having an MVP year so far. His offense is great. But his fielding? I get nervous whenever there is a fly ball to left field.
wccubfan
by wccubfan on May 10, 2009 6:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he's the best LF in the league.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine why you were nervous
In the 8th and 9th ( perhaps if I had the stomach to watch it I might understand).
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 8th b/c
marmol had some troubles. but danced out of it.
and gregg b/c he toyed around with a guy like Counsell, but went after Braun.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
defense
I remember a LF who used to win MVP’s although he was the laziest fielder in the league…. oh yea Barry Bonds. And his teams weren’t even making the playoffs. Sori has had it rough in the field this year, but he honestly is not that bad. Plus his cannon of an arm stop a lot of runners from trying to tag, and it seems that sometimes his defensive mistakes motivate him at the plate. An example is the brewers game Sunday, he misplayed the ball and the run scored, but then he hit a two run shot. I’ll take a 2 for 1.
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bonds used to be a very good outfielder
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 11, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jake Fox is injured right now
Fox collided at first base with Allan Craig on Friday night and hasn’t played since. He hasn’t been put on the DL so it doesn’t sound serious, but if he can’t play for Iowa, he can’t play for the Cubs.
He’s also cooled off in the past week or so, but he’s still a right-handed Jack Cust without the walks.
by Josh77 on May 10, 2009 7:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good morning from Okinawa, Japan
This is beautiful Monday morning, but we need some rain as we are expecting water shortage crisis…
Congrats for today’s win, and looks like Dome hit a triple, but mlb.com Wrap video doesn’t show it… how was it?
by dragonsfanatic on May 10, 2009 7:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You live there?!
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 10, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is...
…view from my home.
by dragonsfanatic on May 10, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
I am jealous
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 10, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but I miss...
… beautiful and windy boardwalk of Lake Michigan…
by dragonsfanatic on May 10, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am in Texas
I miss Lake Michigan as well
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 10, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aww.
I love Lake Michigan.
But there aren’t any views like that from my house. You really do take beautiful photos.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon you got great views of the region!
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh from the beach
which is less than 3 miles from me, sure. Lots of beautiful calm water. And if you have a good lens/eyes you can see Gary and then Chicago.
But nothing from my house itself. Other than trees and dogs.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's much more beautiful here in CA.
I’m sandwiched between the ocean and the mountains.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but you have to live amongst Californians.
by aldimond on May 10, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey.
I’m not a Californian just yet… Many of them are innocuous, at least from my midwestern perspective….
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I lived there for a year...
I thought most of the individual people I met were OK. Didn’t think the culture was much to speak of, though (I specifically lived in Silicon Valley; as a computer nerd I thought that would be a lot cooler than it was). The natural world there is obviously stunning (from Santa Clara some of my favorite running spots were Rancho San Antonio and Rancho Cañada del Oro… and biking in Stevens Canyon, Big Basin, and all the way through the mountains to Santa Cruz), but I found the built world incredibly depressing.
by aldimond on May 11, 2009 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, yeah, and CA baseball fans...
I went to a Giants game in what must have been early July, 2006. The crowd was basically milling around half-asleep except when Bonds came to bat. After he batted for what looked to be the last time (I think the bottom of the 8th) about half the crowd headed for the exits. Meanwhile Jason Schmidt was warming up for the 9th inning, going for a complete game with a one- or two-run lead. There was this one obnoxious drunk dude a couple sections over cussing out everyone for leaving, and other than people were filing for the exits as their ace worked through a 9th-inning jam. Pretty sad. I hear the As fans are better — never did make it out to the Coliseum, though.
by aldimond on May 11, 2009 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If by better fans...
You mean drunk, aggressive, and looking to fight. Then yeah. :) (Though most people do pay attention at least and root for the team, which is nice. I was just pretty frightened by a lot of the crowd).
The Coliseum itself is ugly as sin. Probably the worst major league park I’ve been to. And the surrounding area is pretty sketchy, especially coming in off of the Oakland BART stations. The good side is they have $1 tickets on certain days, and is overall pretty cheap.
I love PacBell/ATT, though last time I was there I had people throwing stuff at me for wearing Cubs gear in the bleachers.
(I’m in San Jose, btw. I think if you give it a little more time, you learn to appreciate the cultural aspects of the area. It’s not all business parks. :))
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 11, 2009 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sketchy?
I wouldn’t call it sketchy; there’s nothing really there aside from Fill-in the Blank Coliseum. Sure, you have the barbecue joint, the used car lot, and that trucking company, but that’s about it. So long as you’re getting on and off the 880 and/or the BART, there isn’t much to deal with.
by LeSaboteur on May 11, 2009 5:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh...
Well, different strokes I guess.
My experience leads me to feel that the area is not one that I’m inclined to hang out in. Particularly at night (for example, if you’re at the BART station after the main crowd has left).
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 11, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Culture in San Jose
For all I could tell, there were people that tried. Just not very many of them. San Francisco is close enough to choke out art and music in San Jose but not close enough that someone living in San Jose could actually be there all that often. From what I saw of San Francisco, and from living in Chicago the last two years, the cultural and social gulf between San Jose and a real city is immense.
Something like the ZeroOne festival, for example, should be really cool. The year I was there I was out of town for much of it, but the days I went it was basically dead. The idea was great, but it was an empty shell. The people and institutions that wanted relevant art in San Jose put together a festival but there weren’t local artists and audiences to fill it up.
by aldimond on May 11, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A's fans are much better.
In my experience, they actually know the game and appreciate it. Unfortunately, the franchise gets regularly shafted despite being the only Bay Area franchise to actually win a WS.
Though, I’m quite certain that the majority of fans at Wrigley are only there to “see something” happen. Barring a play-off game, or some other milestone, it’s the ‘social’ experience they’re after.
by LeSaboteur on May 11, 2009 5:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome triple was beautiful
Really a shame we stranded him on 3d.
He also made a great catch in CF. He was playing really deep and the hit would’ve scored a run had he not made up a lot of ground and caught it at his knees. He runs so smoothly. He really is a great athlete, I don’t always give him the credit he deserves for that.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Houston at Wrigley
I hope I can watch it on NHK-BS’s MLB Highlight program tonight…
BTW finally we can watch Cubs game against Houston live on NHK-BS on Friday night, (I guess it’s first time in this season), but live coverage will start 3AM here! I don’t think I can join live thread on the game…
by dragonsfanatic on May 10, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's an extraordinarily graceful athelete
…except for those idiosyncratic corkscrews, he’s a joy to watch.
by Emelie on May 11, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good morning, dragons
Hope you have a winning week!
by Emelie on May 11, 2009 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone know how much cash we got with the Freel deal?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on May 10, 2009 7:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Enough to offset the difference in salary between Gathright and Freel...
… as I recall, around 2.5M.
Ladies and gentlemen! It's 1985 all over again, but this time the offense goes to hell!
by Ross on May 10, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
great trade
Either way it’s a great trade for us. We get another dero-type in terms of ability to play everywhere, he’s a better hitter, and gathright was getting CS when his only purpose was pinch running.
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just got back from Miller Park
Nice game to watch after that 4 run inning. Marshal looked like he just struggled to consistently find the strike zone the whole game, but I was impressed he got through 5 with only the 2 runs.
Miller Park was nice, even up in the nosebleeds I had. Only had one group of 4 jerk brewer fans as we were leaving the rest were a lot nicer than I was expecting. One thing that made me sad was the hotdogs were not good, and I live for ballpark hotdogs.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 10, 2009 8:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not great brats up there either...
… what is up with that? In Wisconsin of all places? REALLY?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 11, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You want good brats?
Get out there and tailgate. 1/5 the price and way better quality, plus tailgating is just a ton of fun at Miller Park. Even if you’re not just going with a group of your guys and gettin’ wild, families can still enjoy it.
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by Schwa on May 11, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did this before Saturday's game
and yes, the brats were better (and cheaper) than they were inside.
Went to all three games. Seemed like the Brewer-fan jerk quotient was off the charts at Friday’s game. The other two days were more representative of what I’ve usually encountered there — a pretty good group of fans.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 11, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also just got back
Was in Section 306 — Loge level in the RF corner.
I have to admit, I almost always have good conversations with the Brewer fans around me. I’m sure that the fact that I grew up a Cub fan in SE WI has given me heightened senstitivity to “sleights”, because of the crap that I heard from Brewer fans during most of the 1980’s.
Thoughts on the game, in no particular order, other than as they are occurring to me:
Marshall did not pitch well at all, but gutted it out with less than his best. I give him credit for that, but I continue to wonder if he has the stuff and stamina to be a full-time starting pitcher. I’m not ruling it out, but I remain unconvinced.
The third inning was fun, but that was essentially all that the Cubs did on offense as a team. Still need to get the bats going. Fukudome continues to impress on offense and defense, making a nice catch in the ninth inning to rob Counsell of a bloop hit. Bradley has shown signs of coming around this weekend.
Soto looks awful. He rarely took a good swing today and didn’t hit one ball hard. It was hard to tell from where I was sitting, but the wild pitch looked like a catchable ball. Something’s going to have to be done soon (2 weeks?) if he doesn’t improve; you can’t have a .170 hitter on a contending team.
It sure looked from my vantage point that Hall swung at the 3-2 pitch from Marmol in the 8th.
Guzman was decent, but Fontentot helped with a very nice play in the 7th inning. Fontentot made two other nice plays, but also came close to throwing the inning-ending grounder in the 8th into right centerfield.
Theriot looked pretty bad today — he seemed to be swinging from the heels (maybe Brenly was right?) and made two poor thows. Hoffpauir saved Ryan with a nice play on his first throw.
Freel . . . what the hell was that? No reason to be that far off the bag.
The season will be more of a struggle than last year, but I think roster changes are coming. I certainly hope so, anyway. The bullpen still needs help, and honestly — how many altitudinally-challenged middle-infielders without power do the Cubs need?
I don’t think it’s time to panic, but I also agree with dml in that the fact that the Cubs are 1 game worse than after 31 games in 2008 does not mean it’s all butterflies and rainbows. The Cubs as currently constituted will not win 97 games. With tweaks, they could still win the divison fairly handily — but without tweaks, I don’t see them doing winning it without a fight from at least two other teams.
I think Hoffpauir can do a decent enough job subbing for Lee, but there is no adequate Ramirez sub on the team. Neal Cotts, best of luck to you . . . but I think you’re likely going to be looking for that luck elsewhere. I can’t see him hanging around much longer.
Finally, my sister said that she saw a Cub fan flip the bird on the big screen before the 9th . . . if the fan that did that is reading this: you’re a jerk that makes the rest of us look bad.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 8:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
flipping the bird on TV's never good...
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 10, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least that one wasn't intentionally on tv
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No adequate sub with the bat...
But Freel can still pick it at the hot corner.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they can live with that, if --
The others do what was expected of them. Bradley will hit — his history says so. Fukudome seems to be better, Hoff can hit, etc.
Concerns that I have in the lineup are:
Is Soto a one-year wonder?
Is Fontenot in over his head as an every day player?
Time will tell. But I do have confidence in the other starters. Even though I’m not in the Theriot fan club, I’m starting to come around that he’s a legit .290 – .300 hitter.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto
Three plausible scenarios.
1. He was a one-year wonder
2. He is off the juice for fear of being caught under enhanced testing
3. He is fat and lost at the plate and is caught up in a horrific slump
I hope it is # 3. But I’m really not sure anymore. I was very impressed with Soto’s work ethic and commitment to craft last season, therefore I can’t fathom him losing the discipline to stay in shape which would possibly explain the down results. But what I could understand is if being on the juice was the thing that transformed him from a portly non-prospect to an overnight sensation in 2007 and that now the gig is up because he had to abandon juicing or risk being caught ala Manny.
Go Wellington Castillo? Is it time to start saying that? Or wishing we would have drafted Matt Wieters in 2007.
by BLou on May 10, 2009 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know.
I hope it’s #4 — nothing more than a prolonged slump.
It’s not like he’s hitting .220, though. Or hitting a lot of “atem” balls. He just looks bad right now.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he looked better the other day
he was hitting a lot of balls hard.
I hope he starts hitting though. We really need him because Fonzie is due for one of his 0-10 with 8Ks slumps and Dome can’t do it all by himself.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was encouraged when he hit one off the wall in RF in Chicago
Granted, I don’t see all the games, but — that’s the last time I remember him driving the ball anywhere.
I hope he comes around — I like the guy. Pretty soon, though, he’s going to have to start sitting more.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Esp with Koyie having done so well
when Geo’s been out, Lou’s going to have to start making the choice.
Not that I want to go back to Koyie being our every day catcher… but yeah. If Geo’s making errors and not doing a good job behind the plate and hitting .160…
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What doesn't compute AT ALL is Soto falling so out of physical shape
That is the single most alarming thing that leads to my unsettling suspicions that #1 and/or #2 are what is at work here.
by BLou on May 10, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
has anyone pulled up
pictures of last year/this year to see if he really is chunkier?
I haven’t been able to see enough of the games to tell for sure.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes they have
and no, they don’t support either of BLou’s assertions. He’s got no case for it, ESPECIALLY the juicing rumor he so dearly loves to push.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
i’m a huge geo fan. i really like the guy… but frankly, i’m not so sure he hasn’t used. there’s no one i’m sure hasn’t used.
if thats the case, i’d be crushed… but not shocked.
and i don’t think blou is saying its anything more than a possiblity, which given the climate of MLB, how is not possibility?
by Allie on May 10, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he consistently
suggests that Soto’s increase in power can be explained by nothing other than illegal drugs, when it’s just as possible that Soto figured things out, and is now struggling.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And those possible too
But you’d be dense not to be at least a little suspicious about him, or anyone, IMHO.
Course, I hope he starts tearing the cover off the ball again soon so that this is moot for the foreseeable future.
I’m just tired of everyone hating whatever Blou says, simply because Blou said it.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then I'm dense
I don’t suspect people of things that there’s no evidence supporting it — not even any circumstantial evidence of ANY KIND.
I don’t hate whatever BLou says, although I do hate that he repeats it over and over and over again in the hopes that someone else will start repeating it too.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There wasn't a whole lot of
circumstatanial evidence about Manny either.
Sorry to use the word “dense” I didn’t mean to namecall.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't take it personally.
no worries. :D
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he's not.
He’s saying that it’s a plausible explanation — which it is.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
there’s nothing in Soto’s game that indicates this. Otherwise, why not accuse Soriano of doing drugs every time he goes on a tear? And obviously, Fukudome must be doing them, because he has had a surge in production. And BLou’s favorite sparkplug, Theriot, he MUST be a juicer, because he’s a had a huge increase in production. Dempster? That career year in 2008 had nothing to do with him running up and down the mountain or improving his control; he couldn’t have done it without PEDs.
Rami wouldn’t have gotten injured if he didn’t stop doing PEDs. Lee neither. Ryan Freel couldn’t have two people in his head without PEDs. And Lou! My god, I mean, look at him! He must DRINK the stuff by the gallon!
If you don’t insist on evidence for wrongdoing, then there’s nothing that keeps you from accusing ANYONE for any reason whatsoever. I will never EVER choose that route.
When BLou has evidence that Soto is doing PEDs, I encourage him to step forward. Till then, all he’s doing is the worst, most destructive kind of rumor mongering, and frankly, I think he’s doing it deliberately.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plausible.
Yes, it is plausible. The others have a track record that Soto does not.
I’m not saying it’s the only possibility. I’m not saying it’s a likely possibility.
It is plausible.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's also plausible
that I’m an 850 lb gorilla in a bowler hat and a purple sparkly tu-tu, sitting on a donkey with iPod headphones braided through its mane.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sitting in a tutu
isn’t really all that plausible though.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it isn't
You’re being defensive, and no one is accusing anyone of anything — least of all, accusing you.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All those things you just listed are possible
And as I said earlier, I’d be crushed, but not surprised.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As everyone know Geo is my FAVORITE player
I will defend him mightly, but even I must admit there is something just not right. He doesn’t look as comfy behind the plate passed balls, not throwing out runner. He’s at least coming around a lil bit on offense.
Do I think it’s ’roids? NOPE! But can I say with certainy, no b/c I have no way of knowing.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 11, 2009 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's well documented that his shoulder is not 100%, that would explain
his lack of production. As far as his batting, you would be surpised at the number of superstars batting under .200 now. The list is headed by Jimmy Rollins, Lance Berkman, Dan Uggla, Chris Young, B.J. Upton, Mark Teixeira and Jim Thome. Give him some time. He’ll figure it out just like the rest of the guys on that list will.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 11, 2009 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's PED's, either
The only point is, to say that it’s completely unrealistic is naive.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 11, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BB also said
in one of the broadcasts that he thinks Geo’s wrist is still bothering him and is affecting his batting.
by sue369 on May 11, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd also be crushed :(
but BLou saying those things is his opinion. We are all well aware of his many opinions are not backed up by facts.
But Im guessing we all have at least one relative like that, that can make chuckle just a wee bit b/c they believe such crazy things. I will get no where debating my cousin on whether we’ve actually landed on the moon or not. So I don’t waste my breathe. Anymore than I do BLou.
Anyone who doesn’t like my opinion can just go pound sand LOL
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 11, 2009 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Purely subjective... but to me he looks 15 lbs heavier this year
by Emelie on May 11, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you two look more closely than the guys
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 11, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude...
Stop being so suspicious Soto is an extremely hard worker. He probably just got a big head from being ROY. Stop with the Roid rumors. Please.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Soto is a bit out of shape compared to last year and is in a bad slump, but I am hopeful he comes around. You also have to think of the circumstances- he was extremely motivated to get in shape because he was in the minors before and wanted to make it in the big leagues. He worked hard, got in shape, and had one heck of a year last year. As Jimmyeatworld said, maybe he let off a little after his ROY.
When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch. -Ty Cobb
by SotoRiot on May 10, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
big head
I don’t think it’s as much a big head as it is a different scenario. Last spring training he had to work hard to get the starting job, while this year he playing for team PR letting the backups fight for the second spot. Maybe letting Hill get more time will light a fire under him and let him work with Perry.
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a little much
He’s in his sophomore year and the league adjusted to him, he just needs to adjust also. I don’t think giving up on him is a good idea, since we all gave up on Kosuke up until last month, and before theriot’s power streak some people on here wanted him out.
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think Theriot will maintain...
He’s an extremely hard worker. Fontenot? I share your concern Shanghai. That’s why, as much as he mailigned, Miles is important as a platoon partner. He’s a much better player than anyone here gives him credit for. He’s just not DeRo, which some here will never be able to forgive him for. Soto? He’s an extremely hard worker as well, and I expect he will turn it around soon. It’s good, very good, that he calls an extremely good game as a catcher, and really any offense is a plus from a catcher; as I’m sure you already know… Overall, I think we are going to be ok. Truth be told, I think Fonzie is headed for the MVP award; he’s showing more plate discipline than ever before in his career. That will go a long ways.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good report Shanghai, thanks.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 10, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree especially on Hall and Freel
There’s no doubt whatsoever that Hall swung a strike on that 3-2.
Freel was a nincompoop on base. No reason for him to pull a Theriot and get caught stealing. That stuff drives me crazy.
Thanks for the report! It’s always fun and informative to get a first-hand account.
by Emelie on May 11, 2009 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Win
I went to the Milwaukee today, got tickets for my mom for mothers day. I’m now 5-0 at Miller Park. I met a handful of Cubs after they got back to Wrigley tonight as well. I got Harden, Bradley, Guzman’s and Freel’s autograph. Held off on Miles lol. Tried Piniella but he didn’t seem to be in the mood. Harden and Bradley were really cool. Well I say if we can keep winning series and play .500 on the road we should be in good shape until we get our big guys back. Go Cubs!
Someday we'll go all the way.
by Cubbinstrongsince86 on May 10, 2009 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
5-0 at Miller Park?
You must now go to every Cubs game there for the rest of your life.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 11, 2009 4:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not optimistic about the Cubs right now
I’m just not. And yes, I am starting to be concerned that St. Louis is going to runaway with this division while Cincinnati and Milwaukee will be hanging tough all year long.
The issue in St. Louis has been the pitching. But look at that rotation. Lohse, Piniero and Wellemeyer are all performing well under the magical tutelage of Duncan. Ditto Franklin in that pen. A juggernaut lineup is only going to get stronger once Glaus returns. And the Cardinals play great defense all over the field. Plus their payroll is drastically down and I just wonder if they will therefore be players in the mid-season trading derby. Imagine that team if they add Peavy.
Cincinnati has the pitching and Bruce, Votto and Phillips.
Milwaukee doesn’t have the pitching in my estimation, but somehow Macha has that team performing remarkably well.
Call me all the names you want, but the 2009 Cubs are not anything like the 2008 Cubs. And I could care less whether they are only 1 game off of last year’s pace. That is irrlelevant to the argument. Nobody with a sane mind would suggest they are looking at a 97 win team.
by BLou on May 10, 2009 9:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If anyone runs away, it will indeed be the Cards
But I don’t think that they will.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm....
Pujols is a fine defensive 1st baseman
Greene is one of the best defensive shortstops in the game
Molina is the best defensive catcher in baseball, period
Ankiel is a plus centerfielder
Ludwig is above average
Rasmus has the potential to be a Gold Glove outfielder
Glaus is a solid 3rd baseman
by BLou on May 10, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think he's referencing all the errors
which may not be the best way of measuring a defense, but it is one of the most accessible.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only Cinn and Washington have more errors.
Hmmmmmmmmm
by Employee22 on May 10, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't argue baseball with the clueless
Hence somebody else to keep Drewish company on this board. Good luck with that.
by BLou on May 10, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols is fine at 1st base.
Greene was one of the best defensive SS’s in the game… Molina is the best, Ankiel is not a plus just yet, he could be however. Ludwig is a flash in the pan, (my opinion). Rasmus does have the potential. Glaus? He has one year left…
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel
Ankiel just has a strong arm, it’s not like he’s saving room in his trophy case at home for a gold glove. Ludwick is not above average, and Glaus is old. Rasmus has the “potential”, but Pie and Patterson also had the “potential” to be our center fielder for the next 15 years. Potential in baseball isn’t all its cracked up to be. For every Evan Longoria there’s an Alex Gordon.
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cards have a juggarnaut lineup?
Since when outside of Pujols?
But you’re right. Cincy & Mil are tough, they aren’t going to roll over. The Cards are very good and will be there all year.
But theres reason to be optimistic about the Cubs too. We, as fans, see them all the time and know their flaws very well. Theres no reason to think the Cards will “run away and hide” for the division because I’m sure they have flaws too.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think the Cardinals have a dynamite offense
The Cardinals are going to score runs with anybody this year. Especially when the weather heats up. If Khalil Greene returns to the sort of run producer he was in 2007 combined with his exceptional fielding at shortstop, plus if Colby Rasmus starts to break through? Then really look out. Keep in mind that get Glaus back pretty soon.
by BLou on May 10, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they have a good lineup
but they aren’t the ’27 Yankees.
But stay optimistic, if you can. Its baseball, why watch if you don’t have any hope for improvement?
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ifs and buts. If Milton and Soto return to their offensive for of last year, then the Cubs will run away
with the division. You can’t hang your hat on ifs. The Cubs ar 2.5 games back and haven’t played their best ball yet. I think it’s safe to sy that the Cardinals are not going to play like the have for the rest of the season. Either way, it’s shaping up to be a good fight. Your doom and gloom predictions of a Cardinal runaway are questionable at best.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 11, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right.
the 2008 Cubs never had so many key players on the DL or injured at the same time.
Soto
Bradley
Aramis
Z
Lee
all were on the DL.
And yet, we’re over .500, we’re still close to the top, and that’s WITHOUT MOST OF OUR BEST HITTERS.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was there a time you WERE optimistic ?
I must have been off line that day.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
As opposed
to all those other times when you’ve been optimistic about the Cubs?
by Josh77 on May 11, 2009 3:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
juggernaut lineup?
Aside from pujols and ludwick, where is the lineup a juggernaut? Ankiel is hurt, and even healthy he’ll swing as hard as he can, hit 25 hr’s and bat .250. Duncan got a fast start, but let’s be serious, that won’t continue. Yadier isn’t known for being a great hitter, Greene is awful and Schumaker isn’t the ideal leadoff hitter. They do have a pretty solid lineup, but to say its a juggernaut is a little excessive. Plus I don’t think they will trade for Peavy, they’ve never made big deals, and in their eyes it would be a waste since Duncan can make do with mediocre pitching anyway.
Milwaukee couldn’t catch us last year, and now they need to do it without Sheets or CC. Aside from Hoffman their bullpen isn’t very good, and unlike us I don’t see them working that out.
Cincinnati is pretty scary, but they have some question marks. Johnny Cueto was great to start last year too, but then he was awful, so him falling off isn’t a huge reach. Arroyo is not a good pitcher. And I don’t think they can generate enough offense. I think Votto is a stud, and Bruce looks like he will be very good, but Phillips strikes out too much and is not a cleanup hitter and they don’t have a lot more.
Bottom line is don’t get down on the cubs so quick. It’s only May, and there is still a lot of baseball to be played.
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Cards won’t make a huge deal, especially not Peavy. Duncan or Ankiel or maybe Glaus (hard with injury) might get traded for some pitching, but no blockbusters.
I don’t agree.
When healthy, Duncan has consistently been Adam Dunn Light. Yadi has the same approach that resulted in a .300 season last year, so I don’t think it’s too crazy to imagine him being that going forward. Greene hasn’t impressed, but at least isn’t K’ing every time up. Schumaker might not be ideal leadoff for Lou (doesn’t hit hrs) but gets on base at a good clip against rigties.
Going to be a great year. I’m convinced your cubbies will put things together and make this season a nail biter. Good luck with all the injuries, because I wouldn’t know what that’s like…
by STLRegalia on May 12, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You realize we've actually gained ground on the Cards, right?
We’re 2.5 games back despite all of the injuries and poor play. The juggernaut Cards have gone .500 over their last 10 games. They aren’t going to run away and hide.
As discussed before the season, it’s not going to take 97 wins to make the playoffs. It might not even take 90 wins, but it certainly won’t take 97 wins.
by SouthernCub on May 11, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys
I have a friend who tragically decided to turn a gun on his head, he was just angry. He was a well respected, popular, and good guy. If yall could keep my friend in your prayers, it would be appreciated..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on May 10, 2009 9:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm so sorry Chan
I’ll keep your friend in my thoughts.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not appropriate for a message board
This is what is wrong with today’s world. Some people have relationships and live life through a computer keyboard and look for an anonymous chat board as a social network to help with all forms of life’s problems.
I am very sorry for the tragic loss of your good friend. But your feelings are better expressed talking directly with people or trained professionals that handle tragic forms of grieving.
by BLou on May 10, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was reaching out asking for people
who talks to, to send good vibes out for his friend.
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand
I’m very sympathetic and sorry for Chanman’s loss. But I am troubled by people who turn to anonymous posters on a message board as a form of social interaction and to deal with the ups and downs of everyday life. This sort of thing has become a very bad phenonmenon in our country and it leads to many people having significant problems in daily interactions.
Again, I am very sorry for your loss.
by BLou on May 10, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But where did he say
this was his primary form of social interaction?
Really, Blou. I understand where you’re going with this, but was this really the time to lecture on the perils of the internet?
by Allie on May 10, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm trying to figure out how lecturing to someone about how they choose to grieve
is an acceptable form of interaction. Next time, perhaps keep your wildly pompous prepositions to yourself
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
by BoVandy on May 10, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stuff is ridiculous, Guy comes on here talking about a friend committing suicide
and Blou’s response is to wax poetic about the decline in social interactions in our society?
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
by BoVandy on May 10, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rec'd
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 11, 2009 1:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry, can't I ask for both?
I mean I was with my entire group of friends tonight mourning him and wanted addition support as well. I’m very sorry for ruining your evening..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on May 10, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My apologies
I do not intend to get you mad. Again, my sympathies in your time of loss. Good to hear that your friends are there for each other to deal with this.
by BLou on May 10, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon Mike...
You are right, it may not be appropriate. However, you know that a group of us here interact in a social way; with the Cubs tying us together. Chan is one of us, you are even one of us, ya know? I know you have a heart, and that you care… Otherwise you wouldn’t come back year after year, screen name after screen name. Just be one of the gang. How is the soccer going for the boy?
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact is many of us (myself included) are intimately attached to the Chicago Cubs and this place is one way of sharing that fandom. For one, I appreciate talking shop about our team with everyone here. Over the years that has grown into a sort of friendship. Granted, I know I’m typing words on a screen to people that could walk past me on the sidewalk and never know who they are, but there are other people doing the same exact thing. It may be a superficial friendship or one based off a website and shared passion for a team, but I do like “seeing” and “hearing” about those that I’ve grown to know through the years.
I do think you have a valid point, BLou, in that this friendship (or whatever you want to call it) can cloud the real purpose of a baseball team blog. We didn’t come here for talking about our families or friends, at least not at first. I do appreciate your analysis, I really do, because you don’t let other’s opinions or assumptions of you distort the facts that need to be stated about a baseball team. Even so, you’re right that this place isn’t appropriate for one’s sole connection with the real world or emotional supports, but for many of us, it has grown into one (of many) form of that.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 10, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
+1
It is indeed a kind of community
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Danny, I did ya bro...
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rather, dig ya.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 10, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
make this post green!
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 11, 2009 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, Dan.
While some of us have met in real life, most of us haven’t. That doesn’t mean we can’t share parts of our real lives and have others sympathize, or revel if that’s the case for something positive.
Remember that there’s a real human being behind every post here.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 11, 2009 4:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Additionally, BLou...
… posturing about what is and is not “appropriate” on a message board or website is ridiculous. A decade ago or so, none of us had cell phones or text message plans or reliable internet connections. Facebook and MySpace didn’t exist, and nobody was finding dates online.
Technology is rapidly changing the way we as a society interact. It is, in fact, changing so rapidly that there isn’t a “standard”. Nothing like this site existed when i was a kid. People a generation below me don’t even check their email, they go direct to their social networking service. People a generation above me don’t understand what social networking IS. My college friends don’t call or email or even text each other… they send Twitter messages. The “rules” or “standards” of how we all connect on these things are not set in stone.
But above all else, the first thing you see when you visit THIS particular site is this:
A Chicago Cubs Fan Community Since February 9, 2005
It seems this community, one we are all part of by choice, is one Chanman clearly values, at least to the point that he felt moved to share something intimate and tragic with us in the hopes of some support, and as a community (albeit an new and non-traditional one), we owe it to him to provide support as best we can. Your rules on how he interacts, relies on, and communicates with the rest of us apply to you only. Only Al gets to dictate rules to everyone here. You’d be doing well to remember that your perception of the rules apply to YOU only, and somebody breaking your perception of the rules may not be doing something the rest of us get upset about. And in that case, you’d likely be better off subscribing to the old adage “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 11, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Just thought of this at lunch, and wish i'd had the thought in my original post...
… in times of great distress, it is often a relief to have a brief escape to something fun, normal, and guilt-free. The cubs, and this site, can be exactly that.
The value of something to take one’s mind off tragedy can’t be overstated.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 11, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said.
Thank you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 11, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks man, appreciate it..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on May 12, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it could have been...
… because this thread opened up by joking about jumping off the ledge
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it laughable that you're lecturing on appropriateness for a message board...
given your history on these message boards.
by SouthernCub on May 11, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
will do, Chanman.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 10, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to hear that Chan. Grieve however you need to. We're here.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 10, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm very sorry to hear that
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you all for your support
I am taking it much better than most people in my grade. It’s a very difficult thing to deal with..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on May 11, 2009 6:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hang in there
it’s rough when something like this happens. It pulls you up short. You’ve got my sympathies and I’ll keep both of you in mind. Take care.
by Emelie on May 11, 2009 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you
I am currently sitting in my AP History class at school, and the room is completely dead silent. Half of the students aren’t even here today. It’s amazing how something like this can effect an entire school..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on May 11, 2009 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so so sorry, Chanman
none of us know what goes on in the mind of our friends, in the end. I feel for you and your friend.
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
by LAcarl519 on May 11, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so sorry Chan.
I will keep your friend in my thoughts and prayers.
by sue369 on May 11, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me as well.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 11, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, he passed away late during the night
but it was expected
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on May 11, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so sorry to read that chan
take care of yourself. we’ll keep you and your friends in our thoughts.
by Allie on May 11, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm very sorry
to hear that. I hope you and your class mates can find comfort in each other. Please take care of yourself.
by sue369 on May 11, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Felix Pie
Cubs were way wrong on him…sure they got rid of him and he hasn’t done much…too bad they did not recognize this 2-3 years ago and they could have gotten a good return for him….this was in response to earlier post on him sneaking into AAA….
by cozmotaylor123 on May 10, 2009 9:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Felix Pie is incapble of hitting major league pitching
Thankfully, he is no longer the dilemma of the Cub organization. The Cubs were right to hang onto him and to provide him several opportunities to crack the big leagues given how highly they thought of his talents and how much they had invested in him. Two or three years ago the Cubs no doubt thought Pie was going to be a bonafide major league player.
by BLou on May 10, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's too bad they couldn't have traded him...
… when his trade value was higher.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 11, 2009 4:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Happens all of the time. Predicting success for prospects is a capshoot. Guys can look like
world beaters in the minors and can’t sniff success at the big league level. Then you have guys that are mediocre in the minors, but turn out to be stars in the bigs. It’s frustrating, but there are no sure things. Obviously, the Cubs need to do a better job at acquiring and developing big league talent. That much we do know.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 11, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie's biggest problem
is that he can’t find a way to steal first base. Or to stop swinging at breaking pitches that are closer to the hitter on deck than him haha
by JTcubbies on May 11, 2009 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haven't seen this anywhere yet,
but Al and Ken (Ballhawk) were quoted in this article on ESPN about the ‘Wrigley experience’ (personally I think these articles are really cliche by now, but whatever). BCB got nice shoutout and you get some good quotes from Al and Ken.
Are you on Twitter? Check out the BCB and Cubs Twitter Community! Post your Twitter name and start tweeting with us!
by Schwa on May 11, 2009 12:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, it's great to see some of us in the news.
And you’re right, those are some great quotes there. Nice party favors, Ballhawk!
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 11, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, they were quite the hit with the guests, especially the kids.
but man, you should have seen me the day before the wedding – I was running around all over Chicago to various sports memorabilia stores trying to find enough of those plastic display cubes. I was just going to set the baseballs on the table, but I was quickly overruled (my first lesson in how my life was about to change…) and the hunt for display cubes was on! ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 11, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was a fanshot about it
but I think it got buried fairly quickly
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 11, 2009 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I figured there was something about it, but I never saw anything.
That’s why I just made a comment about it instead of a FanShot. Those tend to get buried very, very quickly.
Are you on Twitter? Check out the BCB and Cubs Twitter Community! Post your Twitter name and start tweeting with us!
by Schwa on May 11, 2009 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's especially appreciated
because I don’t have the time to check the site as thoroughly as in the past… reposts of items like this help a lot. Great quotes, Al!
by Emelie on May 11, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for this, Schwa
I remember talking to the guy but never got a heads up when the article was coming out so nice to see that I…
a) …wasn’t misquoted, and
b) …wasn’t made out to look like a doofus.
that last one is an occupational hazard because at first glance, there is a lot of ‘doofus’ potential anytime you’re talking about grown-ups bringing ball gloves to the ballpark, let alone standing outside the ballpark.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 11, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z question
Please forgive my ignorance, but does anyone have a date for his first start after he gets off the DL? Thanks.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on May 11, 2009 12:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know you were French
1 BCB point to the first one that gets that.
Anyway, he’s eligible to return May 19
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 11, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The BCB Store is slated to open after the All-Star break, too, so your points will soon be redeemable.
Just a lil FYI.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 11, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very funny!
I did a Professor Clouseau there, I suppose.
Thanks for z info!
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on May 11, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
May 20 at St. Louis was what I heard.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 11, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like that if it holds
Z coming off the DL in STL… has good memories. :-P
by Allie on May 11, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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