The MLB Commissioner's Office Is Losing It
by Al on May 12, 2009 8:21 AM CDT
in News
449 comments
Two recent incidents and their aftermaths give evidence that Bud Selig and the rest of the commissioner's office is rapidly losing the ability to reasonably run major league baseball.
OK, you're saying, you've known this for years. But the two incidents, both involving the Cubs, are so egregiously wrong that it calls into question virtually anything that Selig and his designated discipline minion, Bob Watson, whose formal title is Vice President, Rules & On-Field Operations. Watson handles all appeals of suspensions and other matters related to on-field discipline.
While there is no question that players shouldn't be allowed to simply run amok on the field, these recent incidents show that umpires -- and in one case, a manager -- are beginning to put themselves above the game and common sense.
First, let's talk about Milton Bradley's two-game suspension for (allegedly) brushing the bill of his helmet against the bill of umpire Larry Vanover's cap during a brief argument after Bradley was called out on strikes at Wrigley Field on April 16. All the video replays showed contact, if it even happened, was brief and incidental. Sure, the rules say that "contact" with an umpire should result in a suspension. But common sense in viewing that video should dictate that someone should pull Larry Vanover aside and say, "C'mon, Larry. It barely touched you. Yes, Milton has had problems in the past but this time he just beefed, got close for a second and then walked away." It's almost as if they suspended Milton on reputation -- that's just plain wrong.
In any case, Bradley had his appeal heard last Wednesday in Houston -- that's six days ago. Why has there been no ruling? Here's a purely speculative guess: they're considering eliminating the suspension completely. Most times, when a suspension is appealed, it's reduced by a game or two or three. Reversing the suspension is the right thing to do, but they're probably considering what the consequences of doing this is for future suspensions.
That's wrong too. Eliminating an unjustified suspension is not only the right thing, it should send a message that umpires and administrators should use common sense when filing reports on minor incidents like the Bradley one.
Now, let's discuss the Ryan Braun/Ryan Dempster incident from last Saturday. As you know, a pitch from Dempster to Braun in the fifth inning sailed at Braun's head. It did not hit Braun -- the video replays on this are absolutely clear -- it hit his bat. Nevertheless, plate umpire Jerry Crawford, as shown in the photo, pointed at Braun's head and sent him to first base, when it should have been a foul ball. Further, in the video, Dempster is clearly shown slipping; the ball just got away from him.
Nevertheless, Brewers manager Ken Macha asked for a "probe" into this.
What is this, MLB or the CIA? And did Macha take some of the stupid pills that Ned Yost left behind in the clubhouse when he was fired last year? In any case, Paul Sullivan says this likely won't amount to anything:
Club sources said the team is confident MLB won't act, noting Dempster's solid reputation and the fact he slipped while making the pitch that sailed toward Braun's head as Braun squared to bunt.
A fine is a possibility, though a suspension is unlikely.
Even a fine is way over the top. Sullivan agrees with me that Dempster slipped and this was a non-incident (and further, an incorrect call by Crawford).
When things like this happen, someone in the commissioner's office has to stand up for common sense and say to Ken Macha, "Grow up." Unfortunately, no one there seems to have any common sense.
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Well said Al
It’s even more infuriating to us Cubs fans because in both instances it was a critical game vs a divisional opponent/rival where the umpirie’s missed call could have, and at least in one instance did affect the outcome of the game. Something that should never happen. Plus it felt like a kick in the ribs while we’re already down, specially in the Braun/Demp instance as these are tough times we’re going thru.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on May 12, 2009 8:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Completely OT, but I don't have time for a fan post
1pm CT TODAY on MLB Network, is the 1984 “Sandberg” game v. St Louis.
For those who have never seen……..a must DVR or (like me) analog VCR.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 12, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post.
The Bradley thing I can understand. The rules say don’t touch and ump and he touched him. Shouldn’t have been screaming in his face to begin with. But at the same time, it was a terrible call and in that situation the player SHOULD yell at the ump for failing miserably at his job.
But the Dempster thing is just so far beyond ridiculous, that I don’t even know what to call it.
by kanderber on May 12, 2009 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting...........
………..there was not a peep after Soriano was struck in the head in STL, and then Pujols in the rump as retaliation.
I’m a big fan of self-policing. Let the managers and the umps stay in the shadows.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 12, 2009 8:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Up to a point, of course.
You can’t let it get out of control. But, when incidents are minor, let them go.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 12, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the same league that brought us black out rules that keep us from seeing our own teams play!
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 12, 2009 8:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And the biggest steroid scandal known to man
……….this will be a long thread
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by tony412 on May 12, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL @ Photo Caption
No, Jerry. The ball didn’t hit him there.
My Caption: He’ll stare you down with his eyes, BIG eyes at that. (partially borrowed from BB)
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by tony412 on May 12, 2009 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Macha
is grandstanding to look like the new manager has his players’ backs. Some people open their mouth before putting their brain in gear.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on May 12, 2009 8:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
It’s never too early for the new guy to try to make points with the fellas.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 12, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But...
… assuming this “probe” comes up empty — which it will — Macha just looks stupid.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 12, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There won't be a probe...
and that’s the point. I doubt Macha really expects MLB to probe the matter. He’s just standing up for his guys. I don’t think he cares if he looks stupid in the media, either. He’s just showing support for his guys.
I think the MLB is probably simply ignoring Macha’s statements as managerial blathering to the media. And I think that’s fine. They don’t need to make more out of Macha’s comments than there really is. That’s just media and fan fodder for discussion.
by SouthernCub on May 12, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There already is one
There’s a link to the Trib bit on it in the fanshot, and Al linked to it above.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 12, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless...
I doubt Macha cares about looking stupid. I also doubt he expects the MLB to actually sanction Dempster or the Cubs.
I suspect that he’s doing this for one (or more) of three reasons:
1) to show he “has his players backs”
2) to get it on the minds of MLB for the next time a Cub pitcher hits a Brewer (especially Braun)
3) to try to get in the heads of the Cubs
Will it work? Who knows. But he’s not losing anything by bringing it up, and I guarantee he doesn’t care about looking stupid.
I also don’t see anything wrong with the MLB’s statement that they’ll look into it. It’s Watson’s job to look into these matters. Looking into it doesn’t mean there’ll be discipline, and I doubt there’ll be discipline.
by SouthernCub on May 12, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 12, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You give three examples of positive outcomes of the action
There are others. Other than Cubs fans I doubt anyone would call that stupid.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are the others? Are they likely?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 12, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This does not even register on the Macha-scale of stupidity
This man has looked like a complete horse’s ass so many times in the past (especially in Oakland) that this request is really just amusing. A’s fans have to be loving this
by murphymj on May 12, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally agree with the Macha thing, he was trying to get points with his own team.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
I’m sorry but I’m going to have to go against the grain here. Bradley did aggressively approach the ump and contact did happen. And especially with his reputation he shouldn’t even come close. So a one gamer should be adequate in this case.
I know Bradley is on our team and we should root for him to stay on the field, but the question should be if Bradley was on the cards or the brewers would your opinion change about the incident? I think most of all would say give him one or two games if he was on the other team.
Hell, as long as mlb is reviewing it, maybe they should review the actual strike call and at least reprimand the ump for a really bad strike called.
And on a side note, what happens if they uphold the 2 gamer and he has to sit now. He was injured at the time and now without Aram this is the wrong time to lose his bat. He should have just accepted the suspension and sat out the 2 games since he was injured anyway. I know its about principle, but how about putting the team first?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Contact"?
You can barely see it on the video replays, if it was even there. It was a complete overreaction on Vanover’s part.
If ANY other player does the same thing, nothing happens.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 12, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone agressively approaches you
and you feel contact, and it touches the hat, then that is contact. I’m sorry but if I was Vanover at that point and a player with Bradley’s rep had come at me and I felt contact, I would have run him there too.
But I would not have made the bad strike call either.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"a player with Bradley's rep"?
So you’re admitting you’d let your biases play into it. I don’t want umpires like you. A strike is a strike is a strike, and all players should be treated the same in this type of situation.
Vanover almost definitely went to the tape before filing his report. Even if he thought at the time there was serious contact, he should have seen that he was arguing over a tap.
by madcow256 on May 12, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly right.
It does seem that Bradley’s reputation has figued in to this controversy. It shouldn’t have.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 12, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I can see the ejection, but a suspension is out of line. Maybe, MLB feels the ejection wasn’t punishment enough because Bradley was a pinch-hitter and would have been out of the game anyway following the at-bat. I do agree that Bradley is getting treated unfairly.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on May 12, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess thats part of it
did he get in the umps face because he knew he was headed to the bench?
Still shouldn’t get suspended for barking at an ump- getting tossed was enough.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 12, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at the same time
the ump also approached Bradley. The ump is not to go towards the player and get in his face as well. The ump is towalk away. It is a mutual OOPS, and should not have been escalated to this point.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't see the ump approaching Bradley
Bradley approached the ump. The ump turned to face Bradley, that’s all he did.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
watch the video again.
the ump turns to face bradley and moves or leans towards him.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
you beat me to it.
the Ump did not back away, but moved towards MB
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did again
and see Bradley arguing right away. Bradley comes around, the ump turns to face him. Bradley still argues, the ump takes off his mask and throws him out.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best video
is the one of Lou talking about it and they have a clip of Bradley leaning into the guy and the hats clearly bumping.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but dont trust Video
your own words
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gamecast said Bradley got kicked out but
NEVER mentioned anything about brushing caps with the ump. Therefore, he shouldn’t get suspended. RIGHT?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure
as long as we cannot see the f/x of the bills making contact, then it never happened, bcuz video is not something to review or trust.
This is what I learned from ol Pete today. I feel much smarter now for it.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will probably watch the game on Gameday tonight.
Because I will be able to get a much better/accurate visual of the game.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I figure I will
wait for the F/X version of it to be released by MLB, since video cannot be trusted
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you talking about?
I’ll bet the instructions for umpires is the opposite of what you want and with good reason.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the ump is to difuse and retreat
not confront a player
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take that bet.
because you’re wrong.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley's rer gave him the 2 gamer, normally should have been 1 game
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
c'mon now, don't you think that Maddux got the benefit
from the umps because he was always close to the zone. Whereas another player would throw in the same spot and not get the call. It’s part of the game and life for that matter. Biases and predispositions are part of this game whether we like it or not.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
and i kind of like it that way. If some guy makes a great bang-bang play but the runner ties, well the runner is probably going to get called out even though ‘the tie goes to the runner’.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 12, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tie goes to the runner
is not a rule, written or otherwise.
by tootle on May 12, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not, I thought it was.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It most certainly is
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 12, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, actually, it's not.
There’s no written rule regarding “tie goes to the runner”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 12, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where does it come from then, just a little league thing then?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to admit, I thought it was a rule
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 12, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
It’s kind of a time-honored thing that’s been drummed into us by years of hearing it. But there is no such written rule.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 12, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess I can go home now
I have learned something new today.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
look in the official mlb or college rulebooks.
it is a judgement call whether or not the runner beat the throw to the bag. if you are sure the runner beat the throw, then he is safe, if you are sure the throw beat the runner, then he is out. please read the book
by tootle on May 12, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, I'll concede you may be right
But I have no time to look right now
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 12, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rule(s) in question are 6.05 j for the batter, and 7.08 e for baserunners
the batter is out…
(j) After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base;
the runner is out…
(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which he is forced to advance, and if he overslides or overruns the base, the runner must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the defense tags the base to which he is forced;
by tootle on May 12, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
I do have to say, the “before” part, the way it is written, does imply that the tie goes to the runner.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 12, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just because you infer that it implies something....
doesn’t mean that it does :P
by tootle on May 12, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed!
One could argue that it does mean that in this case, but I suppose you could argue the opposite, too.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 12, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that's the key.
It wasn’t a borderline call, it was a BAD call. Vanover should have known immediately that Bradley was going to be pissed and, when looking at in hindsight and on video, should know that his reaction was more than justified.
remember
Sammy Jankis
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Precisely.
At some point, MLB has to make their Umpires accountable on the field for poor calls. Now ball/strike calls are judgment calls, but none the less, with the QuesTec system in place, umpires should be held accountable for making the wrong calls.
If Larry Vanover butchers a 3-2, bases loaded pitch that is clearly a ball, he (and MLB) should be giving some leeway to the player who disagrees with the call, regardless of whom the player is.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on May 12, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bad calls happen all the time and to every team.
There is this little rule that you can’t argue balls and strikes. Bradley knows this and doesn’t have to get so close to the ump to make his feelings known about the bad call. He should have kept his distance while argueing. Sorry, but Bradley’s bad on this one.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except
that the Ump turned towards Bradley and initiated the contact. The ump should seek to REDUCE the confrontation, not increase it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry but Bradley came toward the ump and not the other way around.
I just looked at the video 5 times in a row and Bradley came towards the ump
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I continue to disagree.
Bradley walked around the plate, and towards the ump. The ump took off his mask and leans or steps towards bradley. THAT’s when the caps touch.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he took off his mask to throw him out of the game
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and he leaned or stepped in.
thus increasing the confrontation. He should have thrown him out and walked away.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he threw him out with his right hand. his shoulder was turned
Bradley stepped in while he was turned increasing the confrontation.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not even close to true
Bradley was coming at him and leaned into him.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are incorrect.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The video clip included with Lou's comments show it clearly
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they show clearly
that the ump initiated the contact.
Your brain deceives your eyes.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh-huh
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you care so much about Bradley?
I could give 2 $hits about any player on any other team other than my own. I wouldn’t even care about this scenario if it were a Brewer.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
go back and look at the gameday pitch track
It wasn’t a terrible call. It looks to be within the parameters of what MLB considers acceptable. Al should post a screen capture of it and set things right.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's been posted
the video has been posted. The reactions have been posted. It was a terrible call, and you know it, and the only reason you’re here is to still up trouble.
Go back to your blog and rhapsodize about Braun’s eyes.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is the screen capture of the gameday pitch track?
That shows a ball in the gray perimeter. Sorry.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gameday isn't accurate
go back to boohoocrewball
"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher
by The Lip on May 12, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's dependant on the pitch f/x technology
now, if the pitch f/x feeds the exact location of the pitch at the spot where it crosses the plate, then yes, it would be accurate to say that the ball may have been on the periphery of the strike zone.
However, if the Gameday software at the Major League-level still requires the inputter to mark where the pitch was, then there is the distinct possibility it was done wrong. In fact MLB.com encourages the inputters to make sure that called strikes are always inside the strike zone, so as not to show up the umpire.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on May 12, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good grief
Do I have to post the video again? Its plain and clear. He hit him because he was freaking out. He leaned into him not the other way around. Its not Vanover who is reacting.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, I thought I was a lonely voice here.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing isn't it
some people just see what they want to see.
"Blagojevich's telephone log shows several calls to members of the team, including manager Lou Piniella, coach Larry Rothschild and John McDonough," -The Chicago Tribune 3/31/09
by TheRamZamDLEE on May 12, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is the point I was making
about Bradley being on the Cubs and the fans coming to his defense. If Bradley was on another team then some would feel differently.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I have more invested cos he's on my team
but I wouldn’t. I’m not saying Bradley is the patron saint of arguing calls, but Vanover (and a lot of umps these days) do far too much showboating for someone who should be effectively invisible.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
have ^been^ more
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you are saying to hold it against Vanover
because of some other umps “showboating”. Kind of playing into the reputation thing.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point.
I still think he wasn’t holding to the rules of umpiredom. He didn’t blow up, no, and looks absolutely tame compared to Bradley, but he still did more than he should have.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
besides the bad strike call. I don't see what the ump did wrong on this occasion.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we agree to disagree.
Still love your avatar, though.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, my fav player was buckner
so when I saw the image of 22 on the girl, I said that was the one for me.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh...
There is a number on there.
Huh.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah 2 of them!
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they make a lovely pair.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
refused to defuse the situation
and then overreacted to the bills touching when he initiated the contact in the first place.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I just can’t believe this thing is still dragging out. Make the decision already, it’s almost been a month!
"Blagojevich's telephone log shows several calls to members of the team, including manager Lou Piniella, coach Larry Rothschild and John McDonough," -The Chicago Tribune 3/31/09
by TheRamZamDLEE on May 12, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the replay...
…..Bradley was headed to the bench. It was the umpire that took off his mask and took a step towards him, not the other way around.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 12, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
It seems that umpires want to get face time on ESPN and MLBN. If that’s their aim, it’s worknig.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 12, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
next
they’ll want to change it to MLU — Major League Umpiring. Baseball is just the background noise. Look at how gracefully Bucknor calls strikes!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The kids are already clamoring for trading cards.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
takes
K:BB rate to a whole new level.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And OPS means Ousters Plus Suspensions.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BA=Bawling Average
CS = Caught Smirking
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOB = Left On Bench
GIDP = Goaded Into Detrimental Posturing
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
very nice
HBP = Horrid by player
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna keep going til I run out.
WHIP = Wrongful Hindsight Is Provoking
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SLG
Slow lingering goombah
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AVG = Annoying Variations per Game
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GS = Games Screwed
POS = well, it’s obvious, isn’t it…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BABIP
Bolluxed
And
Bobbled
Innings
Percieved
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, I think you took the cake there.
I respectfully concede. I was stuck on LOOGY anyway…
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOOGY
Loose
Out
Offering
Gabby
Yahoo
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goddammit.
Tip o’ the cap.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought LOOGY was
Losing
Often
Offers
Girlish
Yelling
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
only when referring to actual pitchers
as opposed to umpires.
Can’t
Obviously
Throw
Strikes
Sheesh!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction - two t's:
Can’t
Obviously
Throw
Too many
Strikes!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 12, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
darnit
I knew I’d catch myself at some point.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Dome
Cotts is abbreviated. The full name is
Can’t
Obviously
Throw
Too many
Strikes!
Sad
Unfortunate
Cubs
Keep
Evaluating
(w)Rong
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well Dome?
lol!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meant Well Done**
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome?
Dude
Once
Meant
Excitement
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on May 12, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once?
Dude Owns My Excitement
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DOME
Dude
Over-reacted
Milton
Exploded
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GWRBI
Golly
We
Really
Balked
Intentionally
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the first thing I do every morning...
Check the umpiring assignments. Can’t miss the chance to see my favorite ump call balls and strikes.
Visit bloggingthebracket.com, SBNation's bracketology/hoops rambling site!
by Chris Dobbertean on May 12, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
darnit!
I can’t find the listing of which crew will ump the game tonight! HOW DO I KNOW IF I SHOULD WATCH?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you dont watch
just wait for the f/x later
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose
you have a point. Oh, the thrill of replaying Gameday!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Carmen
but just looked at the video and the ump made the bad call and was looking at first base side. Bradley gets upset and makes his way around to the ump to argue. Bradley approached the ump not the other way around.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is an important distinction
if the player approaches the ump aggresively, enforce the letter of the law. and hand out a one day suspension. If the ump is the instigator, then enforce the spirit of the law and no suspension. The message that you want to send is that you will protect the umpires, but not if they are instigating.
by TC Cubby on May 12, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umps need to be
help responsible for their faults, which they are not.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you mean bad calls, then I'm with you.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bad calls do not mean instigating a confrontation.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at the same time
they cannot think they are God, and continue to screw up. The Umpires Union needs to start fining or suspending Umps who constantly make bad calls or bad decisions, including a quick thumb or moving towards a player
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
turning towards a player
and leaning/stepping towards him does.
The ump should have stepped away. The call was made, he’d already thrown Bradley out of the game. The ump chose to create the confrontation.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup. The ump's point was already made.
It’s like a boxer knocking a guy out then continuing to gloat in his face.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Ump is not to bark back
but to walk away. If the Ump moved towards the player, he is wrong.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
He exasperated it plain and simple.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exacerbated
But his exacerbation sure exasperated the heck out of me! :D
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
great googlie mooglie
you are the master exaceraborator
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
careful
or you’ll go blind.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, it is not my day.
I new that two.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
precisely.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
would you
ever turn away from a person in a heated arguement?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
an Ump is supposed to
their job is not to be confrontational, but impartial.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's he supposed to do
see Bradley approach and give him his back? I think that would get Bradley even more riled up.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you walk away.
Bradley was not looking for a long argument. He got his point across and HE is the one who turned and walked away from the ump.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what exactly is your arguement here.
Bad call, WE all agree with that.
Can you say the ump was okay to toss him for arguing? I think we agree on that.
Then I think this is where we disagree, the ump tosses him with his shoulder turned and Bradley moves toward him. Bradley was the aggressor in my opinion.
You seem to think the ump should in one motion throw a player out and then continue with that motion walking away.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
I think the umpire shouldn’t over react, and shouldn’t increase the confrontation.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did he overreact?
Did he diminish or increase the confrontation? Seems like Bradley acted much better than several incidents in the past.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
the umpire increased the confrontation by turning towards Bradley and leaning in or stepping towards him.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure Drew
Poor Milton is a victim. He was just chatting. He didn’t lean into the ump who should act meek. And just because gameday says the call wasn’t “terrible,” they should get you to testify.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see the ump
leaning into him right there.
I don’t give a sh!t what gameday says. I saw the pitch, and it was bad. You know it.
The umpire is supposed to do their job. You may not care about it when a division rival is the one getting jobbed, but you can ignore the rules all you want — doesn’t make an difference. The ump is supposed to defuse the situation.
But you don’t care. You’re just here to rile people up so that they’ll go over to the other BCB, and you can ban them. Does that make you feel like a big man?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if I'm trying to
defuse the argument, yes. Are umps supposed to defuse arguments or ignite them?
Take your time with your answer. I want you to be REALLY sure.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
please read
i didn’t mention a call at all. The instigation is moving toward the player. So, tell the umps, we’ll protect you if you do not instigate a confrontation, but if you instigate, you are on your own if you get touched lightly.
by TC Cubby on May 12, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
turning toward an approaching player is not insitgation.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again,
I haven’t watched the video and I don’t take a position on whether the ump did or didn’t instigate here. I just think that the distinction is important.
by TC Cubby on May 12, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cool, just battilng a 3 front war here.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And especially with his reputation he shouldn’t even come close.
Wrong. When an ump screws a call, the player should have recourse.
I know Bradley is on our team and we should root for him to stay on the field, but the question should be if Bradley was on the cards or the brewers would your opinion change about the incident?
Nope. The play on the field should determine how the game goes, not bullsh!t suspensions.
And on a side note, what happens if they uphold the 2 gamer and he has to sit now. He was injured at the time and now without Aram this is the wrong time to lose his bat. He should have just accepted the suspension and sat out the 2 games since he was injured anyway. I know its about principle, but how about putting the team first?
0-3. If you let the umpires push you around, they become even more difficult to deal with. Bradley was not only justified in his reaction, he was RIGHT.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was right
but he should have just sucked it up and taken the suspension when he was limping around… he was right but do we really need to risk losing his bat now when he finally started hitting?
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 12, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't
decide to fight a bad call just because you’re limping. You stand up for your principles and what’s right. If he doesn’t argue with them, how often are they going to call that ball a strike in the future? Every. Single. Time.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
principles are great
but the reality of him getting suspended for two games is not great.
He made his point-, and was proven right by the replays. Hopefully MLB drops it since it was not serious.
I do not think every ump will now ‘take advantage’ of Milton because he doesn’t yell at one of them when they make a bad call.
If anything- yelling at at ump will normally get you worse treatment from other umps who think you won’t respect them.
Yep- if you argue with umps all the time and act like you are going to kick their ass they are going to have knee jerk crappy calls for you- even if it is in their subconscious.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 12, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if you have a knee jerk crappy subconscious call against you...
… you’ll probably want them reviewed and overturned. Or should we set the precedent that its ok to have those types of calls in baseball?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 12, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry but umps calls are never overturned by MLB
You can protest a ruling but balls n strikes calls are not overturned ever.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 12, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't mean that it's right.
It also doesn’t mean that the MLB shouldn’t look at a body of work by an ump and realize that he can’t accurately call the ball.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ump vs. team, ump vs. pitcher
Where do you draw the line?
"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on May 12, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
with the facts
the strike zone is a set thing. Use the technology to grade umpires on balls and strikes. We can see in the replay that the ball Dempster threw was, in fact, not a HBP, but a foul ball because it hit Braun’s bat, and not his head.
Make the umpires accountable for their actions, just like the players are. If a player makes an error, a run may score. If an ump makes an error, they’re effecting part of the game in which they are not supposed to.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are
so we are sort of arguing for something that is already happening
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 12, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously
they’re not doing a good enough job of it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
they use the results for
1. Off season training (not correction during the season)
2. to determine who gets post season Ump duties
correcting an issue from April in November is not going to work no matter what for anyone in any industry
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your logic and use of facts
are convincing! I would like to subscribe to your newsletter!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you did a great job
of showing me ANYTHING that corrects me if i am.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They already grade umpires using technology
The high def replay shows a change in trajectory at Braun’s helmet. If the umpire heard a double tap, what should MLB do? The preponderance of evidence would support the umpire.
Seems to me you don’t like facts.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, here we go.
the pitch didn’t hit him.
Your brain is deceiving your eyes again.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
like I said
They already grade umpires. My mind can tell a straight line. The hypothetical I posed may very well be true. You don’t answer… yet again.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the chancge in projection
if from hitting the bat not helmet. Had that hit his helmet he would not have been up that fast (history has shown that)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go Home...
Go talk about the game coming up against the Marlins or something. We already know from yesterday that you don’t think the ball hit Braun. Fine… We all think it didn’t hit him and hit the bat. You’re not going to change our minds with the trajectory tick argument.
As for Bradley. I am sure you didn’t watch the game or the pitch sequence to see that Strike 3 was the second bad call of the at bat.On 3-0 the first strike was bogus as well.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to see instant replay in baseball
I like having human umps on the field calling plays. Yes they make mistakes sometimes but most of the time the calls hold up and the game goes much smoother.
MLB is using the Questek system to evaluate umps- in the end it is one call over like 150+ calls an ump makes a game. Yes it was important but there are 161 other games to worry about.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 12, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it insulting
that fans in the stands have access to more information than Umpires on the field. I can pull out my phone and get a replay of a play, but an ump isn’t allowed to look up at the jumbotron to verify what they thought they saw.
I find that ridiculous. Give people the chance to get the call right.
by Allie on May 12, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you say it was a bad call?
The record of the event says it wasn’t. According to your logic, Bradley should never have said a word.
The idea that players should scream a few inches away from the umpires face because he doesn’t like the call is absurd. Your idea that the rule against arguing balls and strikes should be eliminated is a recipe for a nightmare.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the record of the event
CLEARLY shows that the call was wrong.
The idea that players should scream a few inches away from the umpires face because he doesn’t like the call is absurd. Your idea that the rule against arguing balls and strikes should be eliminated is a recipe for a nightmare.
I have suggested neither of these things.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you think the gameday shows clearly that it was wrong
you’re operating with a mistaken set of assumptions. I think what I wrote is a pretty reasonable inference based on what you’ve written.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the video
clearly shows it’s a ball.
I think you aren’t capable of making inferences that aren’t tainted by your own preconceived notions.
Don’t you want to win the RIGHT way? Shouldn’t it be enough for the Brewers to win based on the game-play, rather then trying to get the umps to job the call for you?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You haven't looked at the gameday record?
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've looked at everything
you’ve suggested, and find that it ALL supports the concept that the call was bad, the ump leaned into Bradley, and the suspension was ridiculous.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because gameday is the be all end all?
Not sure I get what you are saying. Is gameday what the umpires use to monitor the strike zone? Is that what MLB uses as their checks and balances?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is gameday 100% gauranteed accurate
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's usually quite close, but no
Harry P the pitch f/x guy could give a much better answer.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then stop pointing to Gameday
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
funny
you were referring to the video when you talk about the “change in trajectory” of the ball that clearly misses Ryan Braun’s inflated head.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't you think they're a bit different
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
video is video
or am I missing something?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One is a close up of an event. The other is an estimation of whether a pitch is a strike from a camera mounted askew and elevated in the back of the stadium.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so one video
is not video, but the other video is video, and we should selectively decide which video to trust and which not to trust? isnt that being prejudice against certain videos, which will make them upset and feel bad, leading to the million video march
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he does have a valid point here
I’m not saying I agree with his conclusions — but the point is valid.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 12, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been refering to
guidelines for an Ump, you seem to prefer to make up your own story.
An UMP is instructed to BACK AWAY, and NOT TO BE CONFRONTATIONAL. This Ump DID NOT do that.
A friend of mine happens to be an Ump in NCAA. He watched the footage and told me himself that this Ump was in the wrong. He did not follow the guidelines.
Is that enough for you, an Umps view on it:? I mean, he has only been umping for 20+ years, what does he know, right?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
meaning?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where "did"
has the meaning of “the opposite of what he was supposed to do”.
It’s grand living in ol’ Pete’s world.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because it's visual evidence?
I don’t think you should watch a game ever again. because what you are seeing isn’t quite true. Always trust a computer.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a computer that humans enter the data into
after all, there will not be any human error that way
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially when humans input info into a computer
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey
When I suggest people look at the alternate view of the confrontation, people don’t do it. You can make ridiculous extrapolations, but the visual evidence doesn’t support all the crying and whining about injustice.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure why you even care about this issue.
Has NOTHING to do with your team. You didn’t see the game. You didn’t see the full at-bat. You look at a computer picture to tell us what is right and what is wrong. GO HOME.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did see the game
Bradley looked psychotic.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bye.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he did
http://www.cubsfx.com/2009/04/miltons-eye-is-too-good.html
As Harry said, it was technically within what is allowed as a strike. according to Pitch f/x. But I don’t think anyone would say a pitch three inches off the plate is a strike.
Also, the first called strike looked way lower than Pitch f/x shows. So either it dropped precipitously after crossing the front of the plate or something was off.
by redward on May 12, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But was it 3 inches off the plate?
Using the CF cam is sure to give a distorted view. But thanks for posting that.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 inches is my guesstimate
Since the plate is 17 and the outside boundary is 24. 3.5 on either side and that ball was about a third over the line.
How does the CF cam distort the view (not picking a fight, genuinely curious)?
by redward on May 12, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thought the call was bad
but there is a point that the center field cam does obscure the view since it is off to the side.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would assume they would correct for that
Since they’re using fancy compooters and all.
by redward on May 12, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How could they?
Do a little experiment and put a ball just off the plate, clearly a ball. Then walk backwards and awayfrom the ball, the ball would appear to be over the corner, eh? It’s a perception thing, nothing they can do with a camera to negate that.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
zoom in
wouldnt that correct it, and arent the camera able to?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's still off center though
I don’t care how much they zoom in
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geometry
If you know the distance to the plate and the angle by which the camera is off, you can determine where the ball is.
Or something. Geometry was always my worst subject in math.
by redward on May 12, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats mathematical right
I was arguing against the visual evidence of watching the center field camera.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I never said it was the be all and end all, but Drew’s claim that it was a terrible call is contradicted by the record. Video is a horrible way to judge. You don’t know where the ball was when it crossed the plate, the camera’s elevation and offset from center make the ball look lower and further away from the plate than it really is.
All I’m saying is that a pretty good record of the event shows it to be within the parameters of what MLB says is acceptable and the wailing and gnashing over a “terrible” call isn’t supported by the record. Drew is clearly pretty wound up.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're pretty clearly
trolling.
It was a bad call. At this point, I trust Bradley’s eyes over the Umps’.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you care about this so much?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's trolling.
I should take my own advice and ignore him, but it’s very frustrating that a moderator of a division rival would come and troll here.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
with pure ignorance no less
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
everything it seems
you entire reason to be here seems to be to stir shit and troll. you are making arguments with false purpose and insufficient facts. you have made such great replies as “you are wrong” with no supporting facts or evidence. you say not to use a tool, that you continue to tell us to use at the same time.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially when the topic isn't related to his team.
If Bill Hall got thrown out of a game I really wouldn’t care what or how he did it. If he was up for a suspension I wouldn’t even care. Ridiculous.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
trolling?
Pointing out visual evidence? No matter how hard you try, you can’t overcome the facts.
by ol Pete on May 12, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're a Brewer fan...
You would NEVER agree with anything we are talking about anyway.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on May 12, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just catching up, but...
ol pete will never agree, not fair to say that’s because he’s a Brewer fan. Just seems that most Brewer fans that come to BCB come to stir the pot, ol pete especially.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on May 12, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
visual evidence
like video, that you said cannot be trusted
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
like visual evidence
of Bradley “behaving like a psychotic”? But visual evidence isn’t to be trusted when it goes against what YOU say.
You are a troll.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Recourse
Wrong. When an ump screws a call, the player should have recourse.
To what end? You seem to feel here that its always black and white, who is right and who is wrong and that the players, in the heat of a competitive game has the clear perspective to know when he is right or wrong. This isn’t the case. How many times have we seen a player or manager argue a ball or strike call or a safe or out call and find that the umpire was right? It happens all the time. So when you say that the player should have recourse and intimate that Bradley was right, you open up a can of worms that will lead to some very ugly behavior on the field. MLB and the Union should have (and I believe the do) some mechanism for dealing with evaluating umpires. Perhaps that should be modified, but giving players license to freak out whenever they wish just is not in the best interest of the game.
I understand why Bradley did what he did. I probably would have, too, but the ump then needed to kick him out of the game. What followed was extreme, however I do not believe that its right to give players free reign to unload on umpires.
by dmlichte on May 12, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to the end
that the umps know that they made a mistake and work harder to get it right the next time. When a player breaks the rules, it’s all over the news.
We have the luxury of seeing games on TV as they happen, and instant replay, and we can SEE that the umpire is wrong in a way that a manager or player on the field cannot. I would presume that the appeals board has that same luxury.
I’m not intimating that Bradley was right — I’m outright SAYING it. The call was terrible, and then the Umpire was the one who initiated the contact.
I seek checks and balances. I don’t want the players to have unlimited behavior on the field, however, SOMETHING must be done about these umpires. Their terrible decisions are affecting the outcomes of games, and umpires are SUPPOSED to try to NEVER do that. They’re not play makers, they’re play CALLERS. Right now, umps seem more interested in being play makers.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
Well while I prefer a sport where the umpires make the right call, I also prefer one where players are not constantly acting like two year olds. You decided not to respond to the bulk of my post, where I pointed out that players are often wrong in their opinions of ball and strike and safe and out calls and that allowing players free reign to act like children would not be good for the sport. But so be it.
by dmlichte on May 12, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I addressed it just fine
by saying:
I seek checks and balances. I don’t want the players to have unlimited behavior on the field, however, SOMETHING must be done about these umpires.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but the point is...
… that by saying what Bradley did was okay, you’re allowing that unlimited behavior.
by dmlichte on May 12, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not at all.
Bradley got thrown out of the game, and should have been. I’ve yet to suggest that Bradley should not have been thrown out of the game. The call was terrible — it was laughably, utterly, visibly, completely wrong — but it was the call, and that part of the game is over.
I am, however, suggesting that a two game suspension for this is another indication of how the umps are out of control.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 12, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most players also
deal with the press and their teammates expressing their fault in any mishap (error, strike out, etc). Umps hide behind a wall and you NEVER hear from them. I think if the Umps had to explain themselves to the press, that could force accountability.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so would you agree that a one gamer would be appropriate?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Half a game.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta pull him for Cliff in the fifth?
OK
"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on May 12, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe on his groundouts, he can run half as hard
oh wait…
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let him play
but he doesn’t get a glove.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has to throw left handed
and play 3B
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
on his knees
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With a uni two sizes too small.
Or big. Whichever’s funnier.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
clown shoes?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how about with Erin Andrews on his shoulders?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, I thought we were punishing him...
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
then Roseann Barr
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats not fair to anyone
that is beyond cruel and unusual.
maybe he jsut has to listen to CDs of Gilbert Godfrey
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah she can sing and everyhing
thus being one of the coming signs of the apocalypse
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She's definitely Famine.
Without a doubt.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Famine, are you sure?
nothing about her says famine, unless she ate all the food.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
Per Wikipedia: “Famine is portly – riding upon a black, sickly horse – representing gluttony and hunger.”
Fits perfectly.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just got an image
of Roseann riding a black horse, I think that would make him sickly.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on May 12, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or a gimp.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cruel and unusual
only applies to government action.
MLB can do what they want. Bring on Roseanne.
by Arbusto on May 12, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you want Milton
to flat out quit baseball?
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
We’ll get it to the point where Milton will go, “Jeez, just give me the day off.”
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, I thought we were punishing him...
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did not mean to reply to myself.
And I realize by explaining it I’m doing it again and I’m okay with that. I’ll reach 20000 quicker that way.
BSG Girls = Cubs Win! So say we all.
by neverAcquiesce on May 12, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
blindfolded
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 12, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs