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In Ramirez' Absence, Total Team Effort Lifts Cubs Over Padres, 6-2

Milton hit this one a long, long way.

More photos » by Charles Rex Arbogast - AP

Milton hit this one a long, long way.

Be happy this morning -- not just for the Cubs' 6-2 win over the Padres, but for many members of the team, especially two I'm thinking about in particular.

Milton Bradley got booed after striking out in the fourth inning -- totally unjustified, I think. It's not as if Milton hasn't been trying, in fact, perhaps he's been trying too hard -- he even said so the other day -- and so I was really happy for him, not to mention the team, when Milton hit a home run that might still be going. If you saw it on TV, you never saw where it landed, because the cameras lost the ball -- it left the park and landed on Sheffield, just to the right of the center field bleachers. It was estimated in the park as 436 feet, but it had to be 460 or 470; I haven't seen a homer that long at Wrigley Field since the bomb that Sammy Sosa put onto Waveland during the 2003 NLCS. The Padres outfielders never budged, nor turned around to watch it.

Be happy also for minor league lifer Bobby Scales, who smacked his first major league homer in the seventh (giving the Cubs what Lou termed in his postgame press conference "one of those tack-on runs") and then raced around the bases in what seemed about five seconds. Scales is a nice addition to the Cubs; he'll never be a star, but as a switch-hitter with a little speed and a little pop in his bat, he will be a useful addition to the bench.

Rich Harden started out the game as if it wasn't going to be his day. By the time he had faced three batters, two of them had extra-base hits and the second of those, a homer by the Padres' one legitimate hitter, Adrian Gonzalez, gave San Diego a 2-0 lead. But then, Harden settled down and retired 14 straight hitters and left the game after six innings having allowed only two more hits, both singles, and a walk. He didn't strike out that many last night -- only five -- and maybe that can be more of a key to his success than blowing away hitters. He mixed up his pitches well and this was by far his best start of the year.

The beleaguered bullpen threw three scoreless innings in relief of Harden, and best of all, only one walk (by Carlos Marmol) was issued after Harden left the game. Even Aaron Heilman, who has been walking everyone in sight, managed 10 strikes in his 17 pitches. Marmol only threw eight in 16 pitches, but had enough to get out of his one inning with some good breaking stuff.

And, it wasn't just the homers from Bradley and Scales providing the Cubs with offense; Kosuke Fukudome kept up his hot hitting with three hits (including two doubles) and a stolen base, raising his average to .333. Alfonso Soriano matched Fukudome with the doubles and a single, and even Geovany Soto appeared to get out of his struggles with a single and a walk. But, Geo? Don't drop your bat at the plate when you think it's ball four. Let the umpire tell you to take your base. Umpires hate being shown up that way. (And you're more likely to get the benefit of the doubt on close calls if you don't do that.)

We are, this year, having actual spring weather, with temperatures neither scorching nor freezing, and last night was pleasant. The nice evening brought out a fairly large assortment of people who were ejected for underage drinking -- some before the game even started. The rest of the crowd greeted ex-Cub Henry Blanco with some warm applause when he was introduced in the lineup; after that he was treated like any other opponent. This was appropriate, I think, for the contributions that Hank White made while he was here. Blanco, incidentally, had a two-homer game earlier this year and has three homers in all -- but only three other hits, all singles, and is hitting .162.

Meanwhile, since Jake Peavy actually appeared in this game, you will hear more from me about him than you've heard all winter. He got a bit of applause from those who think he might eventually be a Cub, but was also treated like any other opponent. Peavy, usually a decent hitter, has no hits this year but hit two balls hard right at fielders. His 2-5 record reflects the fact that his team has scored only 22 runs in his seven starts, although his 4.30 season ERA is a run higher than his career ERA.

The win, combined with the Pirates' win over the Cardinals, moved the Cubs to within 1.5 games of first place (though they still must jump over both Milwaukee and Cincinnati, both one game out). The Cubs really ought to sweep the Padres if they are going to contend without Aramis Ramirez; last night's team effort was a great step in that direction.

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couple of thoughts

Like Al, Bradley’s missle reminded me of Sosa’s NLCS shot. I think it was Game 1. Thanks for pointing out where Bradley’s homer actually landed.

How do people under 21 obtain beer at Wrigley? And how do they get enough to become disorderly and ejected? My 20 year-old is coming home from school on Sunday, and I’m certain he and his cronies will attend some games. I don’t want them drinking.

by thermal54 on May 13, 2009 8:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Most of the time...

… the underage drinkers have friends who are 21 or over buy the beer for them. I’m not sure how that can be stopped; they try to do so by limiting the number of beers you can buy at a time (two), but that doesn’t always help.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At our local A team stadium

They only let you buy 2 beers and they require that the person that will be drinking the second beer be present with an ID. Bit of a pain but it keeps the trouble down to a dull roar on Thirsty Thursdays

If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.

by carolinacub on May 13, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to sound rude, but if you’re 20 years old and on a college campus, you can drink anyway you want. The hard part’s not finding the booze, it’s finding something to do.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."

--Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on May 13, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That doesn't make it any less illegal.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or worrisome

These guys (and gals) have to realize that when they come home, they’re not in Kansas anymore. And I do mean Kansas (Lawrence).

by thermal54 on May 13, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, well, I'm @ KU.

Bring up the big Kansan articles about a month ago with your son. That’ll jump-start some discussion. I believe we have had 3 or 4 alcohol-related deaths on campus—on campus!—in the last two or three months.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."

--Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on May 13, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm surprised with the amount of booze consumed @ the UW that

they’ve been lucky enough to not have to deal with that.

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on May 13, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Experience pays, I guess

"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on May 13, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

or it could be like Univ Texas

where anything negative is well hidden, and never spoken of, including by the Police.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 13, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless you're the student athlete

who had the DEA and other government agencies following him for dealing coke. When the story broke, I happened to be playing poker with a couple cop buddies, who said that in all the years, and all the drug busts they had been involved in, they have seen a fraction of the amount of coke this student had, or had dealt.

by Craig in South Bend on May 13, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know at Texas

Cedric Benson was a complete screw up. He had a target (bigger than Bradley with Umps) and that is why when he was no longer a student, he got busted twice in a short period. He kicked in dorm room doors as a student looking for his “stolen” items, that he bought with the “laundry money he saved”. He also got busted with drugs more than once while a student at Texas. While playing for Texas, these things made the news when they happened, but then disappeared just as fast.

I cannot comment on specifics about other schools, was jsut compaaring some similar incidents.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 13, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In my limited experience of a handful of midwestern colleges, you’re right, Madison somehow doesn’t have as much of a problem as I would think.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."

--Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on May 13, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not to totally OT the thread

but the amount I use to drink is surprising that I never ended up w/ alcohol poisoning.

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on May 13, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same

I always made sure to call a cab though, which came in handy for the times where I had difficulty getting to the cab, not to mention getting from the cab to my house.

by Craig in South Bend on May 13, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right. I know that.

I’m seeking my third degree from my third university, and as somebody that’s making a career out of a professorship in academia, I’ve seen this problem first hand, participated in it, deal with college freshman and sophomores that waste my time in my class talking about how drunk they were last night, and read in the Kansan a few weeks ago about a 3-part front page story on drinking, death, and binging @ KU. This is gonna turn into a civics discussion and I know it shouldn’t go there.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."

--Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on May 13, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they show up at class

stewed sometimes. I never had balls that big. Oh well.

I’m familiar with KU’s new alcohol policy. One strike, and I get a call.

Ok, I’m dropping this thread.

by thermal54 on May 13, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, new policy a few weeks ago.

If you’re interested, here’s the Kansan (student newspaper) special section on the topic. I found it interesting—written by students for students. I think it’s one of the best works they’ve done in the short time I’ve been down here. Rock Chalk. You gotta get down here for a game next year—we’re gonna be ranked #1!!

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."

--Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on May 13, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

heh

Just got the joke. My son almost was a Tiger.

by thermal54 on May 13, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ZOU!!!

Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.

by nji232 on May 13, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is a good read

I’m surprised good journalism can come out of such a bad place (I kid).

The problem is stupid people who don’t know what they are doing when they get to school.

Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.

by nji232 on May 13, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The alcohol sectin of the Kansan should be mandatory for all frosh, IMO.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."

--Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on May 13, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe people let the newspaper film a party

wow.

Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.

by nji232 on May 13, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For what it's worth...

… there are only four countries* (Ukraine, South Korea, Malaysia, and the United States) with a drinking age of 21 or higher. It has been pretty well debated that this rule not only does not help the 18 – 21 year olds of our country adjust to the responsibility of consumption, but may actually encourage them to make unwise and unsafe decisions.

Fact is, college students today are going to drink. I don’t condone getting it in illegal ways, as the law is the law, but it does seem to me that, at least in the college setting, it’d be better to have kids drinking in a central bar district with bouncers and adequate exits and bathrooms, professionally made (proportioned) drinks, well lit streets, and a smaller chance for other illigal activities taking place a room away.

Again, i don’t condone breaking the current laws in Wrigley or KU or anywhere else, but i believe the law in this case needs a second look. Having spent 5 years at a major party school has convinced me of this. The 18 – 21 demographic is going to drink, and it hasn’t been proven that there is any worse of a consequence for them as there is for 21 – 25 year olds. Legalize and regulate it and you’ll increase the safety with which they can do so.

*This is my best memory, based on a paper i wrote in college, and may be off by a couple… but its close.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 13, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I believe the drinking age in France is 9

Seriously kids there DO drink wine. Got to develop that taste early.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on May 13, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And i bet they have...

… less of a problem with binge drinking, alcoholism, and the problems that ensue…

Putting it at 21 puts its up on this pedestal as the “holy grail” of getting old. If the age was 18, most kids would still be at home. I’d much rather my future kids share their first beer with ME at Wrigley (where i can tell them about how to responsibly consume it) than with whoever they latch on to the first weekend in the dorms at KU or U of I or wherever else.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 13, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Completely agree...

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on May 13, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1 and rec'd

I went to a small school in Wisconsin and was a member of the Greek system there. The Greek system was the major player in the social scene because we had our own houses and could throw bigger parties. When I started we were allowed (maybe not allowed, but at least security looked the other way) to serve drinks at our parties. Sometime during my second or third year, the administration cracked down and we were no longer able to serve drinks at our parties.

After this crackdown, I noticed a serious uptick in the number of acquaintances and the like going to the hospital for alcohol poisoning. We always looked out for the people at our parties. When we were no longer able to serve drinks, people would spend the hour or so before the party making sure they drank enough to remain drunk through the entire party in a much less supervised environment.

I would also prefer to have them drinking legally and in more controlled and supervised environments.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 13, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno.

I’ve lived in Europe. It was not my experience that kids there were any more responsible when it comes to alcohol…at all. I asked some of the locals about the drinking age vs. the US (this was in Austria) and there remark was something to the effect of: “Instead of kids binge drinking when they’re early 20s, they binge drink when they’re 15 and then continue doing it into their early 20s.”

I don’t think you learn to be responsible with alcohol by trial and error…any more than kids learn politeness and respect by that method. I think you learn responsibility by having parents and adults provide you with framework of expectations (with consequences for failure) until you’re mature enough to understand why those expectations exist.

Lastly, I don’t recall the details exactly, but I believe the human brain doesn’t stop developing until the early 20s (it happens faster for women than men). Drinking prior to that point inhibits the proper development of the brain…which is one reason why the drinking age is where it is in the US. (or so I’ve been told).

by CubsWin!Oregon on May 13, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You say....
I think you learn responsibility by having parents and adults provide you with framework of expectations (with consequences for failure) until you’re mature enough to understand why those expectations exist.

Yet you “dunno” if the drinking age should be moved up to the point that those parents would still have the chance to influence? I’ve been to Euorpe as well, and it has always seemed to me that drinking was a BIGGER part of their culture while also being less of a detriment. Social drinking vs drinking to get drunk is very different. Under our countries current system, kids wait till they are 21 (or know somebody who is) and just RAGE. I’ve been there.

As far as alcohol’s effects on the brain… everything I’ve read claims the brain develops pretty much up to 40. 21 is an arbitrary number, and we all know 21 year olds less mature than 18 year olds both mentally and physically.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 13, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

I was going to reply because I think you’re logic is flawed. And at any rate, I’ve already noted that my experience leads me to a different conclusion. But really, who cares.

I’d much prefer to talk about the Cubs instead. :) So I guess we’ll have to just disagree on this one…

by CubsWin!Oregon on May 13, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is pretty easy

As long as you dont get rowdy. You can bring in any clear liquor no problem and just mix it in soda.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by jkobus on May 13, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Learned something new this year

At the last game I attended, I arrived pretty early, and out of all the empty seats in the section there was a guy sitting in my seat! We laughed about it, and chatted. He was a “spotter”, given free access to about a dozen games a year to watch for underage drinking. Actually, what they watch for is to be sure the vendors check IDs on every single sale, even to repeat customers. He moved around some, even coming back near me toward the end of the game after some folks had left. I got the idea he was a Chicago police officer working this duty for a chance to see the game free.

Now I’ve seen fans report underage drinking to the ushers before (in the bleachers) and the ushers ask to inspect drinks brought in from outside, if it looks like teenagers are getting tipsy off them, but I didn’t know there were plainsclothes spotters also checking on the vendors.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by zambranofan on May 13, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As you say Al

really nice to see bradley starting to come out of his slump. Even on all the replays I still thought Bradley’s homerun stayed in the park, nearly landing in the second level of bleachers in center field.

I was going to say that was the longest homerun I have seen hit at Wrigley that stayed in the park since Sammy parked one over the camera booth in center field.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 13, 2009 8:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Looked like it disappeared past the bleachers...

… as I said, the cameras appeared to lose it. I know ballhawk was around last night, if he was on Sheffield at the time maybe he can fill us in.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It stayed in the park, Al

If he hit it out to center like that, it would have to be a 600 ft HR to clear those bleachers

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on May 13, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only way it left the park was if some fan was so revolted at the idea of owning a baseball that Milton Bradley in some way touched and decided to throw it out of the park. The video shows quite clearly where that ball landed.

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on May 13, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

or bounced on the concrete?

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 13, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do believe they said it bounced

in the walkway between the lower and upper bleachers in right CF…. at that point maybe it bounced out of the park in right-center

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by tony412 on May 13, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Per Bruce Miles:

Bradley drove one well over the wall in right-center. The ball landed just below the second tier of bleachers, some 440 feet from home plate.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 13, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

600 feet?

No way. Home runs have exited the park to the right or left of the CF bleachers before without being 600 foot jobs. 600 feet would put any HR far across Waveland.

Where di you get that chart?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is that supposedly the track of Bradley's HR?

Because that’s not where it landed.

Also, the height given for the walls is wrong. The walls are 12 feet high, not 15.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know, Al

You had a good of a view as I did, and in person I recall it going up near (but not quite making) the walkway where the concession stand under the upper part of the bleachers is. Then I watched the replay, which seems to confirm that. I’m pretty sure it didn’t make it out of the stadium.

"You know, you should be a lot more careful crossing the street like that, otherwise you could die - if that bothers you."

by gauchodirk on May 13, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think you are misremember Al

That is pretty much where the HR landed.

I understand you think the camera missed it but the replay shows the fans pretty much all looking in that area.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK...

… it sure looked like it left the park. If that diagram is accurate, though, it definitely went more than 436 feet.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if you watch the highlight on MLB

it shows the HR ball in air between the 11th and 12th second. A guy from the second deck tried to reach over and grab it.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boy I love Milton Bradley

Love how he puts his finger to his ear asking the crowd where the boos are.

Also why does MLB think I need to watch a 30 second commercial of michael irvin yelling before i watch a 40 second highlight?

Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.

by nji232 on May 13, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

b/c they are clueless

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on May 13, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MLB is $$$$$$ hungry

how else does Selig make $18m

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 13, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland

by flachimesa on May 13, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remember thinking during his previous AB...

…that if he had connected on any of those swings-and-misses, he would have put the ball into orbit around Pluto. It was really nice to see that thought come true.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 13, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sad to say, Bradley's blast stayed within the Friendly Confines

It was close though. A little more to the right and it could have found enough concrete to bounce out and end up down by Murphy’s.

Now if only Gerald Perry would work with Milton on pulling the ball… ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 13, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the confirmation.

It sure looked like it left the yard from my seat.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

SD TV treated Bradley's HR

As this type of HR was commonplace at Wrigley. I mean, you don’t have to gush over an opponent’s HR. However, this type of blast…..was a monster. You just have to be breathing to formulate that thought.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 13, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not only a long HR

but I haven’t seen one go into that part of center field for a long, long time. I say Milton is heating up and what a six or seven game hitting streak?

I was hoping for a pretty good pitchers duel last night and I was not disappointed.

Scales will stay on this team if he just keeps doing things like last night. The way he ran the bases on the HR was like the anchor leg on the 4×100.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on May 13, 2009 8:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wait a sec....

Totally agree that Bradley didnt deserve the boooing…..

But really Al, if he does crap like he did last night – he is going to get booed. After he HRed he should have celebrated and been happy, instead he put his hand to his ear as he was walking into the dugout. And for that, he is asking to get booed.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 8:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't know if the finger to ear was bad

It seems to me that was a very low key way of celebrating and letting the fans know that he was enjoying thier pleasure of his performance

If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.

by carolinacub on May 13, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I took it as the Zambrano thing...

from a few years ago when he pointed to his head.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

for someone that wasn't at the game

what was the reception for him when he took his place in the field?

by socalbob on May 13, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcomed like any other Cub OF would be after a HR...

… with applause.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

great

I bet that makes him gain confidence and he will be blowing up offensively in a big way. Thanks for the update.

by socalbob on May 13, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

blowing up offensively in a big way

Sooo many ways to take that… :D

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see that

All I can say is that when I saw the replay and saw him do that I got a kick out of it and really thought it helped show him trying to bond with the crowd

If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.

by carolinacub on May 13, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

that is exactly the way I interpreted it

by CubFanInCanberra (9387milesfromWrigley) on May 13, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he was happy

to hear the cheers.

Dood had his second game winning hit in three days. He DOESN’T deserve to get booed at all.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I retract my thoughts....

about this – after reading his quote i understand why he did it. Thank you Milton for the explaination. You can have your stapler back.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley

I have not been a Bradley fan since his stint with Oakland. But I am still willing to give him a chance to see if he can fit in with the team and fans. Based on his past history, my bet is that he will be his own worst enemy as the season progresses. Hope not.

wccubfan

by wccubfan on May 13, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I didn't see that

as being “crap” at all. I thought it was a riot. Didn’t take it like he was being “dickish” towards the crowd one bit. The month or so that we’ve seen Milton in cubbie blue, even despite the struggles, I have found him to be entertaining as all hell.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark

by DamonBerryhillsMitt on May 13, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My take on booing...

… what’s the point? You think the player doesn’t know already? You think a mentally fragile player like Bradley is going to hear it and think more highly of the Cubs and their fans, and in turn want to try harder? If anything, the booing risks alienating a player that we NEED, now more than ever with Rami out, to play well.

If you screw up at work, do you need everyone around you telling you about it? If you have a string of bad luck, do you want the world encouraging you, or bringing you down?

At best, its a fruitless gesture. At worst, its detrimental to the team you came to cheer on. Boo the opponents. Boo the umps. Boo Denise Richards when she tries to sing during the 7th inning stretch. Leave anybody in Cubbie Blue out of it.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 13, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

In 14 PAs, Bobby Scales already has more TB than Gathright did, and is a few shy of Reed Johnson, Koyie Hill, and Geovanny Soto, whom all have at least 41 PAs. I don’t know enough about how call-ups and demotions work to make an educated guess about how Scales can stay up in the majors when Zambrano comes back, but I think Lou should STRONGLY consider it. The way the guys talk about him in the clubhouse makes it obvious to me that he’s a sort of sparkplug and energy this team has been lacking. I know a good story can get nostalgic after awhile, and in turn hurt our bench, but the guy is damn hot right now. And frankly, he’s got me excited, too, considering our best player and ace pitcher are both on the DL and 3 of our best hitters haven’t been hitting.

Dan

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."

--Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on May 13, 2009 8:26 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Scales...

…. is probably here until Ramirez comes back, at least.

When Z returns, either Wells or Ascanio goes back to Iowa.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Patton is let go

in some fashion

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by zambranofan on May 13, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Patton is going to be returned.

It’s tough to hide a guy all year. He looked great in ST but it seems like he’s a bit over-matched in the bigs.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 13, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe they can make a deal to keep him.

He seems to have a good arm — eventually, he might be useful.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i guess it would depend on the asking price

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 13, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Cotts goes . . . and Marshall goes to the 'pen

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather keep Marshall in the rotation.

He’s done an excellent job.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Cotts can't find it...

Lou may not have a choice. I’d like Marsh to start too but his hand may be forced. Seems like Waddell and Atkins aren’t really doing that well in the minors.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 13, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There has to be someone else.

Why hurt the rotation?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You would think, but then

they’d be digging pretty deep in the minors to find a guy that might not be ready. In Lou’s mind he may not think Wells starting is hurting the rotation.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 13, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he's done a credible job

I don’t know that I’d say a 1.35 WHIP is excellent.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's done what a fifth starter should do.

Take his team into the 6th or 7th with a chance to win the game.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, I'm not faulting him

However, I don’t think it would hurt the rotation that much to replace him with Wells.

Again, I’m not saying that’s the move I’d make; I’m not sure. I do think that’s what the Cubs will do.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you're wrong.

Nothing personal!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No offense taken

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A side note..

a bit in advance though.. If Jay Jackson has a good year, and the Cubs re-sign Harden — I wonder if he would take Marshalls spot in rotation and have him go to the bullpen?

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Harden as a closer is an intriguing possibility

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

(I realize that's not what you asked, but it prompted the though)

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah,

I think he’ll stick as a starter, IMO. Unless he has a serious injury that points him to the bullpen.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's how I feel

if he proves he can stay healthy for the majority of the season, he is too good to put in the bullpen.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 13, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aside from his last start, Marshall has been very impressive

Lou’s left him in too long in some of his starts, which are hurting his numbers a little bit

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on May 13, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And a couple times...

… relievers have let in baserunners Marshall put on base, inflating his ERA

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't consider ERA to be that great of a stat when evaluating pitchers

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not, but...

… Marshall’s ERA is not representative of the way he has pitched.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, I don't dispute that

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is another option, albeit slightly unconventional

Jeff Stevens. He might have had his best performance last night, but left-handed batters are hitting just .071 against him (1-for-14).

If Lou was willing to use Stevens to see if he can be as effective against lefties at the Major League-level, it might be another solution to the Cotts Dilemma.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on May 13, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's possible, yes

But I do wonder about all those BB’s . . .

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They definitely are

a 9:13 BB:K ratio certainly isn’t good, and it does need improving. The fact that 6 of those walks are to LHB doesn’t help Stevens either.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on May 13, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is there some way

to account for those walks. Above you posted that lefties hit .071 against him, but that is misleading in light of the 6 walks Is there a better pitcher stat (other than K:BB) that can account for the walks? Do they keep track of OBP against for pitchers, or something similar?

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 13, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They do. Here are his LH/RH splits

vs Left: .071 AVG, 1-for-14, 6 BB, 1 IBB, 6 SO, .381 OBP, .071 SLG, .452 OPS, 104 pitches, 62 strikes

vs Right: .135 AVG, 5-for-37, 3 BB, 0 IBB, 7 SO, .195 OBP, .162 SLG, .357 OPS, 157 pitches, 94 for strikes

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on May 13, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The OBP vs. lefties isn't great

Except for those walks to the lefties he looks like a very effective pitcher regardless of the handedness of the batter.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 13, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, if he cuts down on the walks

he should have a place in the Cubs’ bullpen.

By comparison, Neal Cotts’ line looks like this:
vs. Left: .308 AVG, 4-for-13, 6 BB, 0 IBB, 2 SO, .550 OBP, .538 SLG, 1.088 OPS, 89 pitches, 48 strikes

vs. Right: .385 AVG, 5-for-13, 2 BB, 0 IBB, 3 SO, .467 OBP, .462 SLG, .928 OPS, 58 pitches, 32 strikes

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on May 13, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

STEVENS

is a major league ready relief pitcher. I cannot say this enough. He looked years ahead of Smarge in just one inning and had a veteran’s control of his pitches, at least since the start of the season. I feel Patton is clogging things up here for Steven’s. I agree with Al, Patton has a great arm. We will just have to wait and see who goes where.

by Les Lancaster on May 13, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not voting on what they SHOULD do, necessarily

This is what I think that they WILL do

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remind me why Aaron miles is getting 4.5 mil

When Bobby Scales can do the same thing for 400K?

Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.

by nji232 on May 13, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So far he

is doing a better job than Miles but we shall see if he keeps it up.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The league

hasn’t had any time to really figure him out yet. We’ll see if Scales can adjust. Personally I hope he does, I like seeing this guy succeed.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 13, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I find myself thinking this a lot, too.

But we should bear in mind that, as great as Scales has been – and as great a story as he is – he still has a pretty small sample of ABs. That said, if he continues to succeed – which I really hope he does – it will get harder and harder to make sense of the Miles signing. Scales is far less expensive and appears to have far greater speed (along with the same basic set of skills as Miles).

What’s interesting is a look at the ZiPS (update) projections on Fangraphs. Miles is projected to put up a .626 OPS in 365 ABs. Scales? .764 OPS in 300 AB.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 13, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scales may have a small sample size of success...

but Miles has a very large sample size of being not good. The $4.5 million for Miles was a bad decision irrespective of Scales’s play. You can get a .675 OPS middle IF for less than $2 million per year.

by SouthernCub on May 13, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really makes ya wonder.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 13, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bobby Scales

It could just be that the league hasn’t gotten a look at him and no one knows how to pitch him yet, but right now he’s playing good ball. Regardless of whatever happens the rest of the season he can be proud of the fact that when he finally got his shot he made the most of it.

---AC 00 00 00 - Believe

by mjk83 on May 13, 2009 8:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

You’re not serious are you? Nobody knows how to pitch to a 31-year old rookie that has toiled in the minors for over a decade? If ever there was someone that should have a book as long as your arm, it would be Scales as I would guess nearly two generations of scouts have seen him play. He’s just swinging the bat pretty well right now, that’s all. No different than when Bradley was swinging it poorly. Same thing.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on May 13, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just going to say

It’s not like he came out of nowhere. People in baseball have known about Bobby Scales for years. Jake Peavy was probably a teammate of his in the minors. Other pitchers have pitched against him in the PCL. He’s not exactly an unknown.

by Josh77 on May 13, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That Bradley HR was absolutely demolished.

That ranks up there with Sammy’s 03 NLCS HR and Glenallen’s HR onto the rooftop. Wow!

by kanderber on May 13, 2009 8:32 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1000 and rec'd

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on May 13, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

...and now, advocating for the devil, jasoniniowa!

Don’t you think that, just maybe, the reason Milton was booed was because he failed to make contact with a runner on third and less than 2 outs? I know I was seething after Lee and Bradley both failed to put the ball in play. You usually have to take advantage of any opportunity you get against a guy like Peavy.

Of course in the end, thanks to a couple of bombs, it didn’t matter, but I can understand the disappointment after that at bat.

"I don't think anybody's paying attention to the Cubs." - Prince Fielder

by jasoniniowa on May 13, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean

he was facing Jake Peavy now. He isn’t gonna produce every single time in clutch situation.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read Al's story and was scanning through comments to see if anyone else said this before I typed it.

As much as they were booing Bradley, I think it was the combo of Lee and Bradley both failing to make contact with a runner at third and < 2 outs.
I know I was booing from my couch, figuring that, against Peavy, we couldn’t afford to waste those chances, especially from the two guys who are paid and positioned to be most counted on (without Ramirez) to drive in runs. If it was Hill or Miles, I would have been upset, but less so.
I don’t boo much at games, but when Patterson leads off the game by swinging at the first pitch in 45 of 50 games, Lee continues to try to pull every pitch on the outer third or we keep bringing in Remlinger to face lefties when he simply can’t get them out, I am inclined to voice my dissatisfaction. I don’t think I would have booed if I was at the game yesterday, but I sure would have let a few choice words fly among my ‘discussion’ with my neighbors

by JCD on May 13, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

There’s nothing wrong with voicing dissatisfaction when professional athletes (or managers) can’t make adjustments.

by elgato on May 13, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But why do it when it is your home team?

Staying SILENT would show your dissatisfaction just as well as booing.

In most cases the player knows (quite clearly) that they have screwed-up, and heaping boos on them will not help at all!

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on May 13, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally how I feel.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 13, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you'd rather have silence?

I was at the NLDS massacre last year and it was weird. Emotionless, flat, deflated, listless – use whatever descriptor you want but it was anything but alive. No sign of life at all.

I’d rather have a round of boos to let me know that somebody is still alive and cares than to have a park-full of “meh”…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 13, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be cool

to have some tetris or super mario bros music between batters now that you mention it

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on May 13, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or rally sounds when the visitors are up . . . or Vanilla Ice between pitches

Just like at Miller Park!

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last Friday...

… i’m almost positive there was a break where 45 seconds of Tim McGraw transitioned in to 45 seconds of Lil’ Wayne.

Yes. That really happened.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 13, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 13, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

just like the players

the fans were just wishing no to lose. Not a good recipe for success.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, you are inclined

because you’ve paid for your ticket. But what are you gonna accomplish? Is Patterson gonna stop being Patterson because you are booing him? Same for Lee, and Dusty (pitching decision)?

The fans are gonna do what the fans are gonna do. But if you love your team, why in the world do you think that booing them is going to accomplish anything but more stress upon the particular ballplayer?

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, wait a second ...

First you say the booing hurts the team, then you say it’s not going to change anything? Or are you saying that booing will only hurt the players’ moods and not change their approaches?

by elgato on May 13, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not gonna change

what the fans are gonna think it’s gonna change. They aren’t going to change their approach more often times than not because the fans are booing them. It hurts morale when you boo .. and it only causes the players to press.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think ...

you and I just disagree on the negative impact of booing.

by elgato on May 13, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree!

Booing just puts more pressure on them to perform. They start to question their own abilities and begin to alter the way the approach the game.

It (booing) hardly ever motivates anyone to do better.

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on May 13, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

catharsis?

Of course I don’t expect to change them.

But nothing I do as a fan affects the outcome (unless I reach over to catch a ball or forget to wear my lucky underwear)

You’ve never watched a game and said ‘WHAT ARE YOU DOING??!?’ or yelled ’C’MON BLUE, THAT WAS A TERRIBLE CALL’ at an ump after a bad call? You don’t expect a change, but you are invested so you have some degree of passion about it. I’m not there to drink the beer. I want them to win the game and I want the guys that are paid to drive in runs to do that- just like I want the guys who are paid to throw strikes to do that.

And, in my opinion, if the stress of a crowd’s boo is worse than the stress a ballplayer places on themselves to actually produce in that kind of situation, they should find another job. He’s not getting booed every time up. He’s not getting booed as he heads out to play the field. He got booed when he didn’t get the job done. And he’ll get cheered when he does.

by JCD on May 13, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Booing after one month of performance

is beyond ridiculous … do you expect him to get it done all the time, especially in 1 month? Let him freaking prove himself!

Of course if you are so thin-skinned that booing actually makes you worse then you should be playing a professional sport. But it cause players to press in certain sitations instead of being yourself.

Yelling “What are you doing?” when a man completely missing cutoff man and saying “C’mon Blue, that was a terrible call” is completely different than booing a player after one month that is new to a team and has a track record of hitting then let the man prove himself before booing him for not succeeding in situations you see fit. It doesn’t help.

Booing Derrek Lee who has had his best years in a Cub uniform — a guy that is clearly trying — that has hit every year he has been with us is crazy. He is clearly frustrated, and booing only compounds that feeling.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To his credit...

I’d predict that DLee would say that the fans can say whatever they want.

And if the ump is only one month on the job, his bad call less bad than that of a 20 year vet who has worked the World Series?

by JCD on May 13, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's saying that because that's true.

The fan CAN say what they want. But the guy didn’t even want to come out of the dugout for his curtain call because of the booing previously. He got booed in 2004 after one month because of the Choi trade and all that booing made no sense — because by 2005 all the fans looked as smart as a brick for booing him and asking for Choi back.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

EXCELLENT POINT!!!!

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree about booing...

when they don’t do their job. I mean come on, baseball is different than real life. A good batter is going to fail 7 out of 10 times, so why boo them when that happens?

Don’t you think they (the players) know when they screwed-up? I’m sure they feel worse about it then we, as fans, do, so what is the big deal?

Bottom line is DON’T BOO THE HOME TEAM!

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on May 13, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But honestly...

do you think booing helps the player? Does he say to himself, man these drunk fans are booing me, i gotta start playing better?

For the love of the game, baseball is a sport where you are basically a top 25 player if you FAIL 70% of the time. Think about it, batting .300 is pretty good in baseball, which means, that a player is failing 70%, how many sports can you say that about? So that means a player is going to fail more than he succeeds, so in all actuality we should be booing more than we cheer right?

Booing your own team is pointless, it doesnt benefit the player, the team, or the organization it only hurts it. Top players will not want to come here if we boo for a few bad outings.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

top players

will follow the money. And, frankly, I support the team by paying for seats and food at games, watching them on TV, etc.

And, again, this isn’t about “a few bad outings.” This is about repeating the same mistakes over and over. If Zambrano walks nine in one start and loses, and then allows 10 home runs in the next start, I’m probably not going to boo him.

But if he walks nine in one start and nine in the next, that’s worthy of a boo or two, don’t you think?

by elgato on May 13, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on....

That is horrible justification.

We are 1 1/2 months into the season, Bradley has 70 ABs – and he was getting booed? Same with Jaque Jones. To me that is a few bad outings.

Repeating the same mistakes – i dont follow. People dont boo because there is a guy on first with a right hander up no body out, and the hitter doesnt put the ball in right field. That is just bull. They boo because the performance on the field is not what they want. The fans expectation level is almost out of control, too high. Take jason Marquis for example. How many fans despised him? But he was a number 5 for crying out loud. The fans want a Zambrano type at the number 5 and teams just dont have that.

To me booing happens because expectation levels are way too high, it has nothing to do with doing the same thing over and over.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree

I think it is telling that Jacque Jones, Remlinger, and Patterson were mentioned in this thread. People are booing one player on account for their pent up rage over five seasons. Doesn’t seem fair to the player.

by TC Cubby on May 13, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jaque Jones....

took the brunt of the blame in 2006 for what was a very very bad team.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does he get booed at every AB?

or every time the ball is hit his way in right?

by JCD on May 13, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry

I meant to say that current players seem to be getting booed because some fan is frustrated all the way back to Remlinger, Jones, & Patterson.

by TC Cubby on May 13, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not at all....

but what does booing that situation do? Was that the first time it has happened? The last?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do you expect them to do?

Not slump? They are getting paid millions of dollars because of their talent… which will show back up at one point, more than likely right?

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I'm only speaking for myself

This is a problem with BCB of late. If I say “booing’s OK in some situations,” others assume that I would be OK with all of the booing that occurs.

I was just writing in another comment that I don’t think Milton has deserves boos. I said earlier that Jones shouldn’t have been booed so early for his plate performance — but in June 2006 (or so), when he made his 100th terrible throw, I think it was justified. I never booed Marquis either — and I think it was terrible that he got booed as a visiting player last month.

by elgato on May 13, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

If he was getting booed in every AB, it would be brutal.

he got booed in one AB yesterday where he was the second guy in a row to not make contact.

If Heilman came in and walked 3 guys on 9 pitches, pulled, then Cotts was summoned and he threw a first pitch ball or walked the first guy…he would be booed. It has less to do with Cotts (Bradley) for me than it does with the team’s inability to throw strikes or drive in the run.

by JCD on May 13, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley....

has been booed at all 7 games i have been too.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and uncalled for

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 13, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if anyone walks 3 on 9 pitches

I want the ump returned to Umpire School

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 13, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol...12 pitches

that would be boo worthy

by JCD on May 13, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry you are NOT allowed to argue balls and strikes

If an umpire wants to call a walk on 3 pitches ( two of them bouncing in front of the plate to Bradley) that
is at his prerogative . If you dare question that out you go and breath on his cap and you get a five game suspension .

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on May 13, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what if he calls three strike outs

on 6 pitches?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 13, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

it is a Cubs vs Cardinals game, and the ump is crediting the Brewers with the strike outs, and claims one of the strike outs is a dropped second strike and awards the Brewers a 1-0 victory based on that play.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 13, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

TECHNICAL BALK!

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you really think Z

could care less that he just walked nine guys in two straight games? It probably is tearing him up on the inside. Players do have off days occasionally. that’s baseball.

Every players at the ML level have enough pride in their performance to want to always do good (every time out there), but baseball is such a long season, that there are times when a player just messes up in spite of wanting to perform without making a mistake.

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on May 13, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a huge fan of booing

I’ve done it on occasion.

Conversely to your point — does cheering make them perform better? “Man, these fans cheered, so it must be good when I get a hit?”

I think they do both have some effect. But unless someone’s dogging it or making the same mistake over and over again, I don’t boo too often.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely...

What is the saying, confidence breads winning?

Who is going to have a better approach to playing, a guy who gets cheered every time he steps on the field, or a guy who is booed every time?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Higgy ...

This is essentially what I’ve been saying:

I think they do both have some effect. But unless someone’s dogging it or making the same mistake over and over again, I don’t boo too often.

Maybe SB was doing a better job communicating than I was.

by elgato on May 13, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand your point.

I think a Todd Huntley deserved a boo. He hated the fans, and booing someone like that deserves the booing.

Dogging it or making the same mistake over and over i can live with, but not getting a hit in a clutch situation, come on. It is a part of the game. Their pitcher is paid to get us out, and we are paid to hit, someone has to lose.

If we booed on clutch hitting, Soriano would be at the top of the list come playoff time.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have clearly defined the difference.

Hundley sucked and had a bad attitude about it. People were booing the attitude, more than the performance.

Bradley, we know, is trying and wants to succeed — maybe TOO much, which is probably one of the reasons he hasn’t done well; he’s probably pressing. Booing Bradley is completely uncalled-for.

Personally, I’ve liked what I’ve seen from him so far and think he’s on the verge of getting really, really hot.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 13, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I personally think with Ramirez out...

Bradley is going to love it. I think he likes the spotlight and Bradley feels that he is now the best hitter in the lineup. Yesterday could be the turning point for him this season.

(i also think his last ab where he walked got him all fired up – and we will now see the real bradley)

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

cool

One thing about clutch hitting …

If the TEAM fails to get clutch hits over and over, I’m OK with booing there, too.

by elgato on May 13, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean

is there a rule book on booing or something? The booing this year has been out of hand. Let the team play more than one month before we start booing them on their performance.

But hey let me shut up… I’m not paying for your ticket. You boo what ever the hell you want. Just my opinion.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, not a big boo-er...but will be a bit of an advocate here

1) I’m not drunk
2) If I was drunk, I may not have realized that the 4 and 5 hitters failed to make contact with a runner at third and < 2 outs
3) If I’m booing there, I’m not booing for change or expecting them to even hear what I say. I’d contend it is for ME. It’s a release. I might instead say ‘G- Dammit!’ or ’Can’t anyone on this team drive that guy in?!?!’ I’m certainly not demurely golf-clapping for the failure. To me, it’s the step reached when the collective groan meets the drama or intensity of a key situation.
4) Nobody would boo when a guy flies out to right.

by JCD on May 13, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

boo the situation and the team, not the particular player.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+ A Billion

and those booing, how many jumped on the Cubs train in 2003, 2007 or 2008 and have no clue what it was like losing with much less talent and less effort.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 13, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there's another situation where booing is justified, IMO

I’ve said this before in another post, but I want to mention it here. I don’t see anything wrong with booing a guy who’s making the same mistakes over and over, especially mental mistakes. For example, it wasn’t OK to boo Jacque Jones because he was slumping at the plate during his first homestand in 2006. It WAS OK to boo him when he missed the cutoff man for the 100th time.

by elgato on May 13, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How so?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 13, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

because ...

if more-than-casual fans are noticing the same mistakes over and over, the players should realize that booing comes with the territory.

by elgato on May 13, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said

Good job Unique.

wccubfan

by wccubfan on May 13, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm out in Cal, don't get a chance to boo them personally.

Now I do not advocate riding a particular person, but if the situation arises then I would boo them. For in stance with a runner on third with less than two outs, as was the case yesterday. I wouldn’t boo Lee nor Bradley particularly, but I would boo the team as a whole for not getting the job done at that point.

And if you say it was only one instance then I give you this. The Cubs are LAST in the league with a runner on third and and less than two outs. 14th in the league in productive outs. And 12th in the league with a runner on 2nd and no outs.

This shows me that some players are being selfish at the plate and trying to get a glory base hit/ homer instead of just advancing a runner and or least making contact to drive home a run.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So is there a different

boo for the team and another for an individual player? Can the players distinguish the difference?

by sue369 on May 13, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if they understand baseball, they should

a baseball-savvy player will understand that “hey – this was a critical situation and I didn’t deliver. Fans’ gotta right to be pissed.”

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 13, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, last out is made

and the team comes out to the field. Boo the whole team, they didn’t collectively get the job done.

I don’t expect perfection, all the players are going to fail more often then they succeed. But I do want them to do the situational hitting, putting the team first. Like not trying to pull the ball into the left field bleachers with two strikes and a runner on third with no outs. Just like Lee did last night.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meh. booing your

favorite team is just stupid. They don’t need the fans telling them they aren’t playing well.

by sue369 on May 13, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I think

accepting futility from your favorite team is just stupid.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So tell me

does the booing change anything?

by sue369 on May 13, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

I’ve paid part of your salary and I expect you to put the team first.

Heck if the Cubs were about league average in the categories I mentioned then I would say okay get it next time. But if they continually do the same thing time and again, then I have a right to voice my displeasure.

Kind of like when Cotts comes in and throws 8 straight balls, I’m gonna boo.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they continually

do the same things time and again then the booing is not working. I guess we will just agree to disagree.

by sue369 on May 13, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least

it’s unpleasant for them and they are complaining about it. That should motivate them to do better.

No problem with disagreement, makes life interesting.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what?

futility has nothing to do with putting the team first—that is craziness.

Do we get to go into every Ford or GM or Chrysler and BOO those employess? I doubt it, but didn’t you pay for part of their salaries too?

Booing is a choice. You choose to BOO. And your choice to BOO is meaningless and more likely hurting to the team you want to win. Rest assured, the players are trying very friggin’ hard to succeed.

by socalbob on May 13, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How to you know they are trying hard in every situation?

How about giving yourself up and grounding out instead of striking out?

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

do you really believe

a player is trying to strike out? Do you think giving yourself up is not as easy as you think?

I find it hard to believe you do not believe players are trying hard in every situation.

by socalbob on May 13, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe

they are trying hard. Just their approach is what I’m talking about. When Dlee comes up with a man on third and no outs, take a shot and hit a nice good liner. But when you have 2 strikes, don’t try to pull the ball, put it into play somehow.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they are trying to put it in play

don’t you understand that? They take BP everyday and go through the entire situational hitting “get ’em over, get ’em in” so their approach is correct. It’s the execution you are booing. Why create more angst or hostility in a player who you want to play his best?

by socalbob on May 13, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looked like he wasn't just trying

to put the ball into play, but trying to drive the ball out of there.

And if happens all the time, then yes I do want to let the player know how displeased I am.

Booing has been going on for years now, I don’t see Lee not coming to work every day.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

who is doing this?

what player? What player on ANY team?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if you ask JP Riccardi

/sarcasm

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what do you do when you have bad service at your favorite restaurant?

or you buy something that you find out later was broke/defective/didn’t fit from your favorite store? etc. etc.

Booing is not stupid. As long as it doesn’t get nasty/personal, it’s just a way of expressing dissatisfaction with the product/service you’ve paid money for.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 13, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nope

but neither does typing “poop” in game threads.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 13, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The players

don’t see that.

by sue369 on May 13, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so is booing in the solitude of your own home okay?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 13, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol, the collective wouldn't like that either.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but you type "poop" all the time

and on occasion have used stronger language to express your dissatisfaction in the game threads.

I just find it very interesting that a simple “boo” at the ball park creates such strong feelings, yet people (more than just you) have no problem letting it rip something fierce in the game threads.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 13, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

depends

what I have for lunch, and most times i don’t blog from the bathroom.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on May 13, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't type "poop"

all the time. Sometimes I type crap or shit. :P

by sue369 on May 13, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also,

“dookie”.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 13, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your missing the point.

We’ve got fans booing Derrek Lee and Milton Bradley off one month of performance. Derrek Lee has had career years in a Cub uniform, Milton Bradley has a track record of hitting. These guys have been booed EVERY time they don’t drive in a run or they strike out lately. We booed Kevin Gregg at the home opener as a introduction.

We as fans can express our thoughts in the way we see fit. But one thing we have to realize is that we aren’t helping the players one bit by booing.

You give the analogy of going to a restaurant and getting bad service/food. Booing Bradley is like going to the restaurant ordering your food and the SECOND after you order it you bitch and complain about how long it’s taking for your food to come.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Iagree with your points

then when you boo for your food taking long after one second, a bunch of idiots that don’t necessarily share your views as to why you are booing or why you feel justified in booing, start booing too for all the wrong reasons.

Then that, now large, group of people booing starts to grow and grow and eventually makes it seem as if all Cubs fans boo their own players.

Then people start making comments about how awful Cubs fans are. Then people start to believe it. It’s just not good. Period.

I think common sense should tell you when it’s appropriate to boo. Soriano hops and misses a fly ball because of it… boo. Soriano goes 0 for 4 with 3 K’s… be disappointed, but dont boo.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on May 13, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I wasn't missing the point

I wasn’t talking about the fans that boo on a moment’s notice. I was talking about booing in general. And the specific point I was making in the comment you replied to was my observation that a lot of people here seem to take issue with booing in general yet see nothing wrong with expressing themselves in terms far worse than “boo” in the game threads.

As for the restaurant service analogy… my point was trying to illustrate other scenarios where you could find yourself in a situation not to your liking, even though it’s your favorite whatever. Therefore what do you do? In a restaurant, I think most folks would complain to the manager/server/host. In a store, I think most folks would take the product back and either exchange or get their money back. In short, it’s a way of expressing your dissatisfaction.

btw – bitching a “SECOND” after you order food? methinks you went to the KOW school of hyperbole.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 13, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to get too much into this argument because it seems futile...

But I’m wondering why you feel that a ballplayer is required to perform at a specific level for your benefit?

Maybe we just look at the game differently, but to me the ballplayer is there to perform at a given level for his team. Fans aren’t involved in the equation.

I realize that it’s kind of a complex relationship between fans/teams so my phrasing here might be a bit clumsy. But…

By definition, fans are spectators. They are not customers. Your purchase of a ticket is not a contract guarenteeing delivery of a specific performance or result. You’re paying for the ability to spectate while a game is played out. The only people that are paying for a result (somewhat) is the Chicago Cubs franchise. So I’m ok if Jim Hendry wants to boo. He has a contract for performance. You as a fan, do not.

This is why the restaurant metaphor is so misplaced. A more accurate description would be that your booing is equivalent to you bitching when the guy in the next booth over gets food that is not prepared satisfactorily (ie you aren’t involved in the contractual exchange).

I understand the desire to feel like it’s “our” team. And I often say “we” when talking about the Cubs. But that doesn’t actually mean that I have the standing to actually demand results. So long as the guy isn’t literally preventing the game from being played (since that’s what fans are paying to occur), then I don’t have standing to complain about anything.

by CubsWin!Oregon on May 13, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're right - it is futile...

…as long as you equate booing with bitching.

And by saying “Fans aren’t involved in the equation”, well, you’ve taken this to a whole ‘nother level. If fans aren’t involved, then it shouldn’t matter what fans do, whether it’s cheer or boo. I don’t think this is what you meant, but you make it sound like fans should just sit there quietly and ‘spectate’ the whole game.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 14, 2009 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does cheering?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 13, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boooooooooo!

Boo to this post!
Booooooooooooo!

… Now, what are you guys talking about?

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on May 13, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cheering is a positive

booing is a negative. Does negativity get you very far?

by sue369 on May 13, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No they don't.

But you feel a lot better after cheering.

by sue369 on May 13, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some feel better after booing

Some feel better after a glass of scotch.

Wait, what?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

continued disagreement on the ticket

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on May 13, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Their party is in total disarray.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 13, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It depends on what you think the word change means.

It makes players feel better during slumps if they don’t have that added pressure of the fans booing him every time they collect an out. It makes a minor difference but still.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

do you really think

that booing affects the ballplayers? Are they 6 year olds or what? If Bradley was affected, why then did he homer the next time if he was affected by the booing.

I think when he steps into the plate the next time he is focused on what he wants to do at that time and he doesn’t even think about what the crowd is even doing.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They are humans

The desire for acceptance or to be liked varies from person to person, but most adults still have some degree of it.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so it's ok to behave like a six year old

and boo — that’s only human of the fans.

But it’s NOT ok for the players to behave like a six year old and be AFFECTED by those boos.

I see.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he was so affected, why did he homer?

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just trying

to get a handle on your logic, that’s all. I’m not suggesting that the players are effected or not effected by the booing. I disagree with booing for an entirely different reason — it makes the boo-er look like an utter fool.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if he's saying, "Boo-urns"?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

here's my logic on booing...

someone mentioned Soriano hops and misses the ball- boo

cotts comes in 2 games in a row and throws nothing but balls-boo

lee tries to pull every ball and strikes out with a runner on third with no outs, again not coming thru in the same situation-boo

Not every situation deserves a boo, and I don’t have a hair trigger boo either. Hell I’m in Cal and they couldn’t hear me if I did. And if I booed them in Dodgers stadium then I think the locals might get a little mad.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so name one situation

that doesn’t call for a boo.

You do realize that the other team is trying to get our team out, right?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe

I heard that Gregg was booed the very first game at Wrigley. He shouldn’t have been.

there’s one.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's actually a flawed argument

Some people respond better to being “called out”. I’m not saying that’s why Bradley homered, but it doesn’t prove or disprove your stance.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know

but many posters here seem to think that the booing will cause him to be less productive.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah -- got it

I guess the thread was too nebulous. I see where you are going with that.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 13, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do you mean?

I didn’t say the Cub players should get into the fetal position and start performing worse when Cub fans boo. I’m simply stating that you don’t boo a player after one month or in Bradley’s case 2-3 weeks when they have a track record.

I don’t care if you guys wanna boo, but all I’m saying is that your not helping. Some of the booers take it to the point that they believe these players need a foot stuck up their ass to start performing . If you are booing your hometown players — after only being in a uniform 25 games or so and you are actually trying and actually trying to help your team win AND you have a track record of picking it back up, WHY is it neccessary to boo?

Treat these guys like our own and support them because they need it.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not one of those

that advocated the booing of Bradley. That guy can rake and will hit this year, if he stays healthy.

I was just saying that the booing doesn’t affect them when they hit.

But if your saying that cheering for Bradley will make him hit .350 then I’ll be up for that if that’s what he needs.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No cheering doesn't affect a players numbers

but however if your in the midst of a slump and all this pressure is upon you to perform and you also got the fans at your OWN HOME PARK booing you after 1/6 of the season being done then you start to press and you start trying to hit a grand slam even when guys are not on base.

Booing just adds pressure that I don’t think is needed. Especially at your own park. And especially when your trying and it’s April & May for crying out loud.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 13, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then

how can any player ever perform on the road then? That’s all they hear there, including more derisive comments (I’m assuming) then at home.

It’s not as if the booing is going on during his at bat. Now then I would agree that would be distracting.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but wait.

your example above:

lee tries to pull every ball and strikes out with a runner on third with no outs, again not coming thru in the same situation-boo

Didn’t Bradley come into that same situation with one out instead of no outs, and do the exact same thing? Why are you booing Lee and not Milton?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm booing the situation

runner on third with no one out. I just used Lee because that was his situation yesterday. Didn’t matter who it was, not trying to call out Lee in particular.

And my point before was that the cubs are dead last in that situation. I want the team to be able to bring that runner home somehow.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so runner on third

with no outs is significantly different than runner on third with one outs.

One is boo-able, one is not.

Gotcha.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The club did not come through with a runner on third and no outs.

I am booing the team for not coming through in a situation that can affect the momentum in a game.

Not trying to heap more pressure on the sensitive players, let them take it as a whole.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

right

but you boo after one player gets out, and not the other, right?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I boo when the club doesn't come thru in that situation.

Hell maybe the Lee and Bradley strike out, but then if Fonty had gotten that hit, then I wouldn’t have booed at all.

I boo when the team doesn’t come through in a situation when they need to score.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey

if you got to third base and couldn’t bring it home. Then Boo on you.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no no

that’s NOT what you said.

lee tries to pull every ball and strikes out with a runner on third with no outs, again not coming thru in the same situation-boo

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then let me qualify then

for poor explanation. I am not putting the whole thing on Dlee’s head. Like I said if Bradley or Fonty had come thru then no problem in my book. No One is going to be successful 100% of the time.

But the last 3 years there is a 50% success rate in this category in the whole league. We are dead last as a team, we need to do better.

It doesn’t matter to me if the pitcher some how gets on third with no outs and then Sori, Riot, and Dome don’t come thru. Boo on the team.

Is it clear now?

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 13, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply