Sean Marshall, Bumped From Start, Gets Win Anyway In Wild 5-4 Cubs Win Over Astros
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:06 PM CDT
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442 comments
Go figure, right?
Sean Marshall, originally scheduled to start today (and the reason his picture wound up in the First Pitch Thread is because I had scheduled that one early, and forgot to change it), wound up as the sixth Cub pitcher of the day, threw three pitches, induced Lance Berkman -- who had launched a rocket onto Sheffield already in the ninth inning -- to ground out, and got the win when the Cubs bailed out the bullpen and defeated the Astros 5-4 this afternoon at Wrigley Field.
This recap was going to have a completely different focus until the ninth inning, praising Randy Wells -- who has now thrown 16.1 scoreless innings from the start of his major league career -- for his six-inning, four-hit, three strikeout performance, and Angel Guzman and Carlos Marmol for shutting the Astros down to set up Kevin Gregg, who closed ...
Whoops. That last part didn't happen. Gregg was horrendous today, there's no getting around it. In addition to Berkman's bomb, Carlos Lee homered and the only Astro who didn't get a hit off Gregg, Geoff Blum, got hit by Gregg, at which time Lou said, "Enough" and brought in Aaron Heilman. Heilman, a bit shaky (only seven strikes in 16 pitches), managed to get two flyouts and Marshall got Berkman's groundout with the bases loaded.
Many in the crowd in the bleachers were chanting, "Woody! Woody!" while Gregg was imploding, but that wouldn't have helped matters. Gregg had actually been pretty good over his last few appearances. I take issue with his postgame comment that "it wasn't a save situation". That shouldn't matter; Gregg dispatched the Padres easily with an identical four-run lead on Tuesday night. Maybe the four-day layoff in between appearances for him could be blamed, but Lou said in his own remarks that "if we need Gregg tomorrow, he'll be back out there." Lou also commented that he had a few words with a fan near the dugout after removing Gregg, upon which he told the fan, "You enjoy the game and let me manage the team", only, as Lou said, "in more colorful language".
Laughter followed, and the Cubs can afford that after the ninth-inning comeback, particularly satisfying off ex-Cub LaTroy Hawkins. Hawkins walked Bobby Scales -- Scales' hitting streak ended at six, but that walk was an outstanding at-bat, and all the Cubs needed was for him to get on base. Aaron Miles sacrificed him to second, and then I think everyone in the house was stunned to see the Astros pitch to Alfonso Soriano instead of putting him on. They must have told Hawkins to "let him get himself out", i.e. give him pitches outside the zone and make him swing at the bad stuff he often offers at. Instead, Soriano flared an 0-2 pitch into right field and Mike Quade sent Scales.
This was an aggressive, Wavin' Wendell type move, and the result, obviously, won the game. If Hunter Pence had made an accurate throw, Scales was probably an easy out. But Pence's throw was high and the Cubs won.
All the bullpen histrionics ruined not only Wells' fine performance, but also excellent outings by Guzman (who looks more confident in his own abilities each time out) and Marmol, who looked great today, as well as a nice day by Micah Hoffpauir subbing for the suspended Milton Bradley. Hoffpauir made a couple of nice catches in RF and slammed a two-run homer off Roy Oswalt to give the Cubs a 3-0 lead, right after Derrek Lee had a really nice at-bat and singled in the Cubs' first run.
Nevertheless, wins are wins, no matter how they are obtained. The Cubs' fifth win in a row keeps them half a game behind Milwaukee and in second place ahead of the Cardinals after the Brewers' 1-0 win over St. Louis this afternoon.
Be happy. But fix that bullpen!
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Nice game until the ninth
But anyway, who goes to the pen when Z comes back? I say Marshall because Wells has just been that good, and that way we can let Cotts go. Thoughts?
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 16, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Marshall has also been good.
He’ll start Thursday vs. St. Louis. If he does well — well then, it’s a nice problem to have, right?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has but
Marshall is a lefty, who can get outs, unlike Cotts. He would be more valuable to the pen and Wells has been better than Marsh.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 16, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yabbut...
… how do you know Wells can keep doing this? Marshall, we already know, can start and do well on a consistent basis. If he is stuck in the pen as a LOOGY — and you know Lou will use him like this instead of as a long reliever — his talent is wasted.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great minds...
"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on May 16, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then insert him back
There is no guarantee Wells will continue, but if you don’t give him a shot how will you know?
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 16, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wells can stick in the bullpen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you'll never know
If he would’ve kept this up. That’s why I’m saying put Marsh in the pen for now. THEN if Wells does bad, he goes to the pen, or maybe even back down for Stevens, Reinhard, or Waddell.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 16, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno.
I just don’t see the point of disrupting the rotation which has done a good job so far.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rotation
has been the only dependable part of this team so far.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And why punish Marshall?
I mean Wells has been great, but I’d rather have the guy with the proven track record out there and has had a pretty good year himself. Wells can definately help us in the bullpen.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know based on his past performance, wrigleyrocker
The fact that he’s thrown 18 straight scoreless innings has very little correlation to what he’s going to do with his next 18. His minor league track record suggests that he’s not as good as Marshall right now.
David Patton could have thrown two scoreless starts too. The key word here is could. I don’t think anyone here would advocate that Patton should be starting games for the Cubs just to ‘give him a shot’
Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog
by berselius on May 16, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont think its proper to put wells and patton in the same sentence.. Patton has been total shit this year. Wells has not. If you want to be that way, lets send scales back to AAA and leave freel without question
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could all agree
that cotts should be removed. He hasnt been at all impressive in the games he’s played. Marshall and Wells sould both stay in the majors for sure. As for who is the 5th man, either one is impressive. I personally think we should give wells the start for now and move marshall to pen. If wells starts to perform poorly, then move him back, but if wells keeps up the way he’s been, it would be stupid to send him back down.
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cotts won't be removed.
Not that he’s been any good, but he has zero trade value, cannot be sent to the minors without his permission and they won’t eat his contract.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 16, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But using Marshall as a LOOGY would be almost criminal
He’s well set up for starts or long relief – using him as a replacement for Cotts wouldn’t do his talent justice.
"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on May 16, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what?
Waddell it is?
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 16, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question should be
Do we need a LOOGY? I think we can skate without one, but Lou apparently disagrees. Up to him, I guess.
"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on May 16, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou doesn't know how to use a LOOGY anyway
why do we need a token lefty out there?
by Allie on May 16, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe a 6 man rotation is a possibility?
it would certainly help the injury prone Harden, since Lou has indicated he wants to give him extra rest anyway. I dunno, just a thought..
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on May 16, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can the cubs support that with roster slots?
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also, has that been done before? It would help keep them rested, but could also throw off rhythm at what not
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe the bullpen has given away...
…two games that should be wins for Wells.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
At least they won this one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true!
Heilman should still by him dinner and a cocktail seeing how he’s been involved in both games.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg is the one that should be picking up the tab tonight for Wells and Heilman both.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said Heilman b/c he gave it away in Milwaukee...
…and blew the save today.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However...
… Heilman did get a pair of outs. That’s two more than Gregg.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, fine!
Heilman buys dinner, Gregg buys the drinks. Good?
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For all of us?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe an appetizer.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
technically gregg blew the save
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he did not.
It was not a save situation.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
meaning all 4 runs were greggs
and heilmann got 2/3 outs
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right but a pitcher cannot
Create a save situation for himself.
by Galvan316 on May 16, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol i know srry forgot it wasnt a save situation. Im just saying you cant blame heilman for making it a tie game, when gregg put all the scoring runners on base
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think we can
heilman’s job is come in when its nasty and get out of it w/o giving up runs.
both he and gregg stunk today.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no that is not what Heilman is good at
He is good or at least supposed to be good at long relief.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 16, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was a tiring win.
Low key until the 9th, then high stress, then pshew.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on May 16, 2009 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Al, what was the reaction like in the ballpark when Gregg came out?
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Loud, sustained booing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well deserved.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on May 16, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take full credit for Hoff's homer
A timely EA pic was all it took.
"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on May 16, 2009 4:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And since sanantonecub was bragging about it
I’m celebrating with a Chimay Red.
"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on May 16, 2009 4:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A win is a win is a win is a win
Cubs WIN!!!!!
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
by fischisgod on May 16, 2009 4:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed re: Gregg
Relievers have bad outings… Gregg’s gonna have to contribute to this team in order for it to be successful. The alternative is a major bullpen trade and thats unlikely to happen right now.
Scales would have been out easily had the throw not been so, well, Jacque Jones like. I was surprised how far up the line Scales was when the throw sailed well past the plate.
by dmlichte on May 16, 2009 4:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Said it before
Pence is not a good defender. I would always challenge him in that situation.
"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on May 16, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Berkman's HR . . .
. . . didn’t make it on to Sheffield. The replays showed it clearing the bleachers, but landing on the walkway behind them and bouncing back towards the field. Not trying to nitpick, just to be accurate. :)
by ErnieBanks on May 16, 2009 4:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Boy, that walkway is wider than I thought.
Sure looked like it cleared it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looked like it cleared it from my perspective easily.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 16, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way would it bounce back from the street to the stands
Not at that low of an angle, either
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 16, 2009 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets give Soriano some credit
0-2 for him usually results in an ugly stike out. It was good to see him go the opposit way to win the game. If he continues to go to right he will become a more complete/dangerous hitter!
We're born again, there's new grass on the field. -John Fogerty
by muehlman on May 16, 2009 4:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A little OT
But does anyone have vineline? I’m thinking of subscribing.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 16, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I used to get it.
I think it’s more marketing for the Cubs’ organization than it is worthwhile content. Just read BCB, GROTA, VFTB, etc. if you want content.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."
--Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 16, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get it, but only because...
… they send it automatically to season ticket holders.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More OT
Two pitches into the game, and fresh off the DL, John Lackey gets ejected for throwing two pithes behind the Rangers leadoff hitter. These umpires need to chill the hell out!
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 4:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No kidding
Blue has been out of control lately.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umpires or Blou ?
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 16, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haven't seen Blou much
the umps however have been everywhere lately.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A little rough on Sori, no?
They must have told Hawkins to “let him get himself out”, i.e. give him pitches outside the zone and make him swing at the bad stuff he often offers at.
Considering Soriano had a spectacular catch in the first and the game winning RBI, I wouldn’t have thought he would be taking shots after this game. How many game winning RBI does he already have this season? The guy has really been coming through for this team, so far.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 4:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't a shot...
… it does happen. Fortunately, it didn’t happen today… that was a really good at-bat and yes, he has contributed big-time all year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems like a shot when you say he swings at bad pitches and gets himself out. Especially, when he just did the opposite.
This was a case where he swung at a pitch out of the zone and got the game winning RBI.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he does do that at times...
… and that’s clearly why the Astros didn’t put him on.
However, today he did good, as you said.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you honestly...
…tell me you haven’t seen multiple flailings by Fonzie on curves and sliders no where near the plate? I have no idea why anyone throws him a fastball.
Kudos to him today for finally getting a hit on one….
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All his homers aren't hit on fast balls.
He hit a game winning homer in the bottom of the 8th against St. Louis on a low slider on April 17th. I can’t believe how many Cubs fans just love to trash this guy, especially on a day that he has the game winning RBI.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Soriano has been our best player
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
by fischisgod on May 16, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only dispute this
because I think Rami was better before he got hurt. But yes, Sori has rocked this year.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on May 16, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rami is always good
i respect ur
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
by fischisgod on May 16, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not trashing him....
but, come on, he looks great at times and he looks foolish when he flails on the outside pitch in the dirt for strike 3.
He’s carried us, and today he had a huge hit, but surely you see the other side, don’t you?
He’s the most exciting/frustrating ballplayer out there.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
Fonzie can be very frustrating to watch.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I define frustrating differently.
Soriano so far this season in relation to other NL players:
Runs Scored 2nd
Extra Base Hits 2nd (tied)
Home Runs 3rd
Total Bases 5th
At Bats per Home Run 7th at 12.727
Does he ever fail? Yes, but this season he has been one of the most productive players in the league.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does seem more attuned to the game so far
Last year it seemed as if he were daydreaming out in LF
by Emelie on May 16, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one's disputing that....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is in dispute is does he deserve to get cheap shots taken at him when he has the game winning rbi?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't a cheap shot.
It was simply stating that the Astros pitched to him because they thought they could get him out instead of putting him on in an obvious intentional walk situation.
You can call that a “cheap shot”, but you’d be wrong.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's what Cecil Cooper was thinking then Soriano proved him wrong.
So far this season Soriano has been the 4th best player in all of baseball in “clutch” situations. It was foolish to pitch to him with 1st base open and he showed them why. They guy may swing at bad pitches but he can also get hits off of bad pitches.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's kind of what I was trying to say....
… guess I didn’t say it very well.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you were clear
The Astros, not you, were disrespecting Soriano. They obviously thought they could get Soriano out by letting him swing at bad pitches. In the TV replay of the final pitch, the catcher set up quite low & outside.
by ChipSet on May 16, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I didn't see it as a cheap shot....
I saw it as reality. The man does strike out on a lot of curves and sliders outside the plate. He does. I don’t see how you don’t see that.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering his production it seems people put way too much emphasis on his failings.
I think it’s unfair to say the other team assumes he will get himself out when he’s been so good in “clutch” situations this season. I thought it was a cheap shot and that’s my opinion, you don’t agree and that’s that. I’ve actually tried to back up my point by giving what his production has been in the clutch as well as in comparison to the rest of the NL. I’m not giving strictly anecdotal evidence such as, “I’ve seen him strike out on bad pitches.” I can also offer up anecdotal evidence to support my belief, just off the top of my head, I can remember 2 game winning RBI hits that were on off-speed pitches outside the zone.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a baseball player
even the best fail at least 6 times out of every 10.
I’ve seen great hitters like Alex Rodriguez get themselves out. I just watched a game today where 3 gaints (none of whom are particularly great, but still) got themselves out.
None of that is a “cheap shot”.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a negative context to a positive outcome by Soriano.
I’ve already made the point that most players fail more than they succeed which is why I think it’s a cheap shot. It seems unfair to me when someone claims that Soriano “gets himself out” when in fact he got a base hit, on a pitch outside the zone no less. . It’s a matter of context and when I see a positive outcome I wonder why it was prefaced with a negative. You could just as easily say, “once again Soriano proves to be a very dangerous hitter.” When given the opportunity to beat the opponent that’s exactly what he did any previous failings aren’t really relevant.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Fonzie
He’s incredible when he’s on.. but when he’s off? he’s hard to watch.
Thats all I mean by frustrating.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+12
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point would be that he is "off" much less than other players.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree
All I was trying to say was that his off is uglier than most other players.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far, yes....
but you have to admit that he is very streaky.
I’d love to see him not get into one of those funks this year. We need him more than ever.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sori made that work.
It wasn’t the best pitch, he wasn’t going to get a homerun. He just saw something he could hit and drove it to the right spot for a single. It was great.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on May 16, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cubs
no ramirez or big z and the team is playing well.this is what needs to be done until the big guys get back. gregg??? makes you long for the dempster days. im sure this will be his 1 yr only with the cubs.
by NOMAR on May 16, 2009 4:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I've strongly disliked Gregg from the beginning.
Turtle from Entourage shouldn’t be on this team. It was a stupid idea to bring him over here and we should get rid of him before he destroys more games like this. I have 0% confidence in him when he enters a game.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."
--Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 16, 2009 5:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hard to believe he's making $4.2M
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES THAT IS ALOT OF $$$$$
Given the fact that Cubs Mgt won’t admit they made any mistakes..( Don’t be upset if he stays around ) .
by cubs north on May 16, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i personally would prefer marmol, but he isnt the greatest this year. HOwever, hes been improving much more than gregg has. IF marmol gets back into the zone he was in the last couple years, I dont see why he should be the closer. Then we’d have a set up man problem which is easier to handle.. I will admitt that i am very biased toward marmol though so there might be a better option… Hows K Dub doing in CLE ?
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHERE'S CUBBIE TIM?
CAN I GET MY BOBBY SCALES JERSEY YET??
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."
--Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 16, 2009 5:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Can I get in on the Scales Jersey biz?
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on May 16, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here you go.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks a little shooped just above the round part of the two
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nvm i see what you did there al. tricky tricky. why not just make a customized jersey with his name/number?
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you talking about?
That’s exactly what I did.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no luck so far with my suppliers
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 16, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg had a meltdown....
….but, jeez, anyone remember the previous 6 outings he had? 2 hits, 4 saves.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Still, an ERA over 6 just ain't cuttin it!
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A reliever's ERA doesn't always mean much
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT???
Care to elaborate?
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, due to one bad inning a reliever's ERA can skyrocket.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 16, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but over time...
…if he straightens things out, it comes back down. I hear what you’re saying, but Gregg’s stats don’t exactly blow me away. He gets into way too many jams
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
16 IP?
You’re expecting to be blown away by someone’s stats in less than 20 innings?
Alrighty, then.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I am blown away by his 4 homers and 10 walks
over 16 innings. You’re impressed by that?
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither's Marmol's +4.00
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aaaaand...
the 6 outings prior to that? 7 hits, 3 walks, 1 save.
by kanderber on May 16, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're overreacting
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, what?
What exactly am I overreacting to? You showed stats that suggest he’s been good recently… I countered with stats that suggest he’s been equally as bad recently.
by kanderber on May 16, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More recently, he's been lights out...
I thought, before today, he had turned a corner. You pulled up stats from the first part of the year. More recently he’s been solid.
But if people want to throw him under the bus again because he had one bad outing out of his last 7, that’s certainly your right.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 HR, 10 BB in 16 IP
These are hardly stats of an effective closer.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said....
Last 6 outings have been exactly what we needed out of our closer. So, yeah, I thought he had turned a corner.
Maybe today was an abberation, maybe it was exactly what he is, but I’m choosing to believe Gregg is the closer we saw in the previous 6 outings.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you honestly feel comfortable when Gregg comes in?
Because I don’t, and a closer should be lights out—ie, I should feel comfortable when he comes in.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on May 16, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many lights-out closers are there in baseball
Three or four, maybe? Maybe?
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And even they get lit up once in a while
Joe Nathan blew a gimme save the other day.
Rivera went through a patch a week ago where he couldn’t get anybody out.
It happens. And it sucks.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Technically, today wasn’t a blown save, but Gregg will blow at least one more this season. Anybody who finds that unacceptable better stop watching baseball.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure the DFA suggestions will be coming soon...
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More importantly...
How many teams have a guy that their fans are confident in? A hell of a lot more than three or four.
And there are far mroe than 3-4 lights out closers, by the way. Rivera, Hoffman, Papelbon, K-Rod, Bell, Franklin thus far… that’s 6 off the top of my head.
by kanderber on May 16, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they've never blown a save or looked like hot garbage?
by Allie on May 16, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NEVER!!!
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Gregg has as many blown saves
as Papelbon and K-Rod and Rivera, no?
Franklin is not a lights-out closer. His track record is too brief to make a judgment.
It appears Hoffman might have some of the old magic back this year. We’ll see.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To my knowledge, Papelbon has not blown any saves.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he blew one
earlier this month.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Here’s his stats.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are correct
here is papelbon’s line:
16 IP, 13 H, 10 BB, 19 K, 1.13 ERA and 9-9 Saves.
Gregg’s line:
16.1 IP, 15 H, 10 BB, 19 K, 3.86 ERA, 6-7 Saves.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aside from the ERA
those stats look very similar.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Gregg has allowed 4 HR...
…to Papelbon’s 1
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rivera has also allowed 4HR
it happens.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to mold reality to shape your view of it
go right ahead.
Maybe you should take a sedative before the ninth inning. That might make everything better.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch!
Why r u hating on me? I’m just frustrated w/ Gregg, no need to snap at me.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I think you're overreacting
Gregg and Heilman both sucked royally today… and we still won.
Winning ugly sure beats losing.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean to single you out
I think most people are overreacting.
Either that or I’m completely under reacting.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Closers blow saves all the time, and very few inspire confidence. Relax.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg's ERA isn't 3.86...
Today’s stats count in the discussion.
by kanderber on May 16, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok kanderber
You are Lou or Hendry you have Gregg on the team…what do you do with him? He’s obviously not worthy to close.
by jeff_pico on May 16, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what you do with him now...
I never would have acquired him to begin with though.
by kanderber on May 16, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we have, so what do you do now?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beyond the blown saves stat
Gregg gives up late walks/hits/etc. too often for a closer. It will come back to haunt him. He does not inspire confidence. A closer should.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on May 16, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
Even when Gregg escapes the 9th unscathed, he makes the last inning a nail biter way too often.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You never felt nervous
when Woody or before him when Demps came in?
I did. We could have Cy Young on the mound and I’d be nervous in the 9th. B/c I’m always a bundle of nerves in the 9th.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to HATE when Demp came in to close...
Ugh.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wood
Wood had a few awful games like Gregg had today. I’m not sure if he ever blew a 4 run lead but tthere were games when he would be hitting guys, walking guys, giving up hits. No closer or relief pitcher can have great outings everytime out.
by jeff_pico on May 16, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was a game at Wrigley last year agains the Brewers
Where Wood got light up like a Christmas tree with a 3 or 4 run inning in the bottom of the 9th. It was really early in the season and i believe that Wood hit the first two batters, walked another and Braun hit a bases clearing double or something like that.
by Galvan316 on May 16, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
last year when marmol or KW would ocme to the mound in the ninth id pretty much turn off the TV; This year i bite my nails when i see gregg get called to the mound
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's an improvement
At least you’re not turning off the TV anymore.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember you saying you were a new Cub fan…be glad you didn’t have to sit through the agony of some of the other closers in Cub history like Goose Gossage, Mitch Williams, latroy hawkins, not to mention 10 other guys who were all stars with other teams but sucked with the Cubs :(
Lee Smith and Randy Myers have been the only truly great closers the Cubs have had in my lifetime.
by jeff_pico on May 16, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does the name
Bruce Sutter ring a bell?
Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr
by bubbamike the one and only on May 17, 2009 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not the point.
Nowhere near the point, actually.
Sure these guys blow saves from time to time. But they’re so much better than Gregg. Gregg is probably bottom 10 closers in all of baseball.
by kanderber on May 16, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a stupid post.
What’s the point of just saying “whatever?” If you’re really incapable of adding something more intelligent than that, then just don’t bother.
by kanderber on May 16, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whats the point of just commenting on his whatever?
if you don’t have anything intelligent to add, why bother?
and i don’t see your point because i don’t think gregg is that awful.
today? sure he was really really really bad… but tomorrow he might not be.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Tomorrow he might not be"
Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a closer where your phrasing was “sure he was really really bad today… but tomorrow he’ll be fine like he has been all year” as opposed to “he might not suck tomorrow”
by kanderber on May 16, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure that'd be great
every team looks for that guy.
we can win with gregg. and we did.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I shared your positive attitude about him.
by kanderber on May 16, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One stupid post begats another
He has been fine for most of the year. I know every Cubs fan wishes every player on the team was a Hall of Famer, but it just doesn’t work that way.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 16, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg has been far from fine...
for most of the year. What on earth are you talking about?
by kanderber on May 17, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's been fine.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 17, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're wrong. Again.
An ERA over 6 and a WHIP of 1.776 isn’t fine. It’s trash.
by kanderber on May 17, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1, any confidence in Gregg is mind boggling
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every closer blows saves.
Gregg hasn’t been laser-beam tight. It’s a concern. But do you seriously think he’s going to be moved?
He’ll get his saves. He’ll help the team get to the post-season, and after that, it’s a crap-shoot.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if his ERA is over 5 in July
I bet he will not be our closer.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take that bet.
Kevin Gregg will be the Cubs closer for the full season. $20 to Project 3000. Do you accept?
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said he wouldnt be
you said “But do you serioulsy think he is goign to be moved?” My response was I do think Lou would move him if his performance is bad over the next few months, he does have the track record to be unmovable. Plus we have a guy named Marmol. I will take teh bet that if his ERA is over 5 in july he is not our closer.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i personally think that right now marmol should be the closer, but marmol is my 2-3 favorite player so im a little biased.
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol is more valuable
when he’s available in the 7/8 in “bases loaded no one out” situations
by Allie on May 16, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point, i wish he were used longer though. I know Lou wants to keep him relatively rested but marmol had 3 back to back Ks in the 8th. If hes hot let him go back out and see if he can do it again. If not then play roulette with Gregg
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol's performance
drops significantly when he’s used for more than one inning. We saw that happen last year, when he flamed out.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol in more than 1 inning
is bad.
3 outs is enough from him.
I hate when they use him more than 1 inning.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
like he coulda flamed any worse than gregg did today. However i understand what you mean and will concede to keeping marmol a set up guy.
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you kidding?
Do you remember that game, where suddenly, he couldn’t even throw it NEAR the plate? The bad throw to first, lots of walks… they didn’t hit any home-runs off him because swinging the bat at balls three feet off teh outside corner is useless.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
srry i worded that poorly. I wasnt saying that marmol can be shitty. Ill agree taht marmol has had his share of bad days. what i was more refering to was Gregg was pain to watch today, and in hindsight they shoulda left marmol in or used another pitcher. No offense intended
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, Done
IF Kevin Gregg’s ERA is over 5 and IF he is moved out of the closer spot before Aug 1, I will pay Project 3000 $20. IF Kevin Gregg’s ERA is over 5 and IF he is NOT moved out of the closer spot by August 1, you will pay Project 3000 $20. If his ERA doesn’t go over 5, the bet’s off.
I call for a witness.
I’m collecting quite the collection of bets on Gregg’s performance this year. :D
And by the way, I totally don’t want Marmol to be the closer. Who will come in with two on and no outs in the bottom of the 8th, when we’re up by one? Guzman’s not ready to do that yet.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guzman has shown amazing improvement, especially since he’s come back from tommy john. If he can keep improving he could be a setup man
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could
If he could become the backup setup man for Marmol by July or August, that would be amazing — we could use Guzman when Marmol had pitched hard the day before.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he could be
but he’s not ready yet.
he’s still getting used to coming out of the ’pen. let him get comfy before you throw him into the fire.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally agree
i was just saying. it sounded like you werent giving him enough credit though
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Gooze
He’s got sick and nasty stuff. He could be a huge key, if he’s healthy.
But let the guy get used to the role before you make his part bigger.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what does
TWSS stand for. I’m new to BCB so the acronyms are kinda confusing to me
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what
she said.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what she said.
its from the office, i believe.
just a fun way of making things sound way dirtier than they were meant. :-P
by Allie on May 16, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol. all those other threads make sense now.. lol
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol that was a really good one.
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But let the guy get used to the role before you make his part bigger.
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i guess you could actually take that whole quote if you wanted to stretch it a little
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
off topic: is that your dog in your picture, its really cute
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
Ur pic is just a red X
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was to cubsfaninwisconsin
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats weird it shows up for me
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
must be my computer
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the original file was like 2.7K by 2.7K so that might have explained it i changed it to be smaller just in case
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
shows up for me
but i have no idea what it’s supposed to be.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a blue guy
batting in front of a red C.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed Drew
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DC
I offer the same bet at Drew
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 16, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we had one last season
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't you remember
Woody blowing the first game? Or how many games he blew later in the season?
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster and Wood
both blew their share, hell Bruce Sutter and Lee Smith blew games
IT HAPPENS
relax everyone
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 16, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true. But woody rebounded and had a great year. I
i hope Gregg does the same, but nothing so far as led me to believe that the case espically after looking at Gregg’s #s last year.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And there was nothing to suggest
that Woody would rebound and have a great year either. There were NO numbers.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And a lot of people around here
were raising holy he11 about Wood after his early meltdowns.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg and Woody
had REALLY similar numbers last year. And Gregg was on a worse team.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except for the walks.
Gregg walked twice as many hitters as Wood in a similar number of innings. That’s asking for trouble.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 17, 2009 4:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is
but it’s also clear that Gregg was able to overcome that trouble, since all his other numbers were so close.
I’d love for him to reduce his walks.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 17, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wood was pretty good last year
That’s my problem.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on May 16, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but early in the season
he wasn’t. Remember?
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Nathan is probably one on that list
And he had trouble last night against the Yankees as well.
by Galvan316 on May 16, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been the last 6 games he's pitched, up until today...
And there are few “lights out” relievers around anymore.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeez
From some of the comments on here this afternoon, you’d think that the Cubs lost this game.
I
by Galvan316 on May 16, 2009 5:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
stay VERY clear of the game thread...
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure there was plenty of ledge jumping there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 16, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it actually wasn't as awful as you'd think
well, it probably was. But it had room to be worse.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just scanned some of it
Not a pretty sight.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't there, but did a glance of the "big innings" both good and bad...
like I do all games I miss. I wish I were surprised.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it wasn't ledge jumping it was facing an ugly truth: gregg
by Emelie on May 16, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES.....
But you were still able to put your W flag up right ????
by cubs north on May 16, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed it all
I was watching the score on my phone, and saw 4-0 in the bottom of the eighth, and then 4-4 in the top of the ninth and said to myself “the board must be committing seppuku with a blunt keyboard.”
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should folks be happy when thier team blows a four run lead in the ninth?
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course not.
but we did win.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know. I'm just sick when people get upset over posters venting a little
when things aren’t going well, I mean what the heck is wrong with that as long they don’t say anything inappropriate or insulting
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what isn't going well?
we’ve won, what, five in a row? We’re 1/2 game back on May 16th with our best hitter out, Lee is finally starting to see the ball, Soto looks to be improving (albeit slowly), Bradley is coming along quite nicely, we have Bobby Freakin’ Scales and Micah Hoffpauir picking up the slack, and Alfonso Soriano is hitting opposite-field singles to win the game.
Yes. Gregg blew the save. Yes, Heilman was shaky. But Guzman pitched well, Wells pitched very well, and if relief pitchers were really all that great, they wouldn’t be relief pitchers.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
reason to be happy
we gave up 4 not 5
sure the pen blew a lead, but the rookie has looked damn good in his two starts. no need to dwell on a victory IMHO
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 16, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Z returns
we have six solid to very-good pitchers, any of whom can go into the rotation.
That’s a GREAT problem to have.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love it
6 man rotation, allowing Z to PH with bunts five out of six games
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 16, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree, but were not supposed to comment on the fact we blew a four run
lead in the ninth. Despite all the other positives you mentioned, that is not good, and people have a right to bitch about it.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it becomes a habit
then it’s of real concern. EVERY closer has bad days.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree, but the bullpen ERA is something to be concerned with now.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On and on it goes ...
I swear, if Jennie Finch were standing naked in front of some of you guys, you would bitch that she had a pimple on her rear end.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
big legs on her
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the pimple iss off center
AUGH!
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 16, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you disagree with Al's above post
ending in “fix the bullpen”
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on May 16, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with the bullpen
revolves more around the consistency of Cotts and Heilman than it does around Gregg.
I think Piniella and Hendry in the process of addressing that. Ascanio already is up, and I suspect Wells will be in the pen when Zambrano returns.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to a point.
I prefer to look at it this way:
If we can be seven games over .500 without our best hitter AND the bullpen being shaky, think of how well this team will play when Rami’s back and the pen is settled!
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
amen, assuming that the rest of the team continues to perform the way they have been(excluding the bullpen) Also, thank god our rotation is doing its job. Hats off to Wells who has been an amzing sub to Z
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 16, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very well said!
There really is a lot to be happy about today — including the bullpen as you pointed out — and the fact we’re on a 5 game winning streak; going for a perfect (rain-shortened) homestand tomorrow!
However, while I admire optimism, you have to admit this team’s bullpen clearly has flaws that need to be corrected. Both Heilman and Gregg have showed ZERO consistency. Even when they do finish innings, it seems more often than not, they’re walking a batter here or giving up a base hit there.
Is it time to panic? Of course not. But it’s certainly something to be concerned about. Just sayin
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 16, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I recognize that the pen has issues. I’m not going to worry if Gregg walks a batter every time he comes out in the ninth.
The only stat that matters is Wins.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also Patton and cotts. thankfully they arent used often. I cringe whenever i see one of those two warming up in the ’pen.
by CubsFanInWisconsin on May 16, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many fans of any team
are perfectly content with their bullpens, do you suppose?
I’m guessing that number is pretty small.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 16, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad I wasn't
in there then today.
by sue369 on May 16, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No joke.
I’m reading this at the equivalent of 5AM my time (just flew from San Francisco to Philly), and I didn’t sleep on the plane at all…so I might just be tired and whatnot. But dissent is apparently very much not welcome in this thread….
:)
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 17, 2009 7:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that Bobby Scales pic above....
….would look great with a superman cape on it.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 5:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 16, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
9th inning aside ...
It was great to see DLee hitting, even Soto contributed, and Guzman looks stronger every game. Much to cheer. If only we could figure out the pen.
by Emelie on May 16, 2009 5:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I still like
gooze – marmol- gregg.
and less heilman if at all possible.
by Allie on May 16, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gooze has been impressive, would love to see him keep going...
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 16, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heilman is good for LONG relief
That should be his role.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 16, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has improved every single outing
And that is impressive as hell.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 16, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think people need to remember that this team
Has seen injuries hit: Bradley, Marmol, Lee, Ramirez and Zambrano and have had virtually zero production from Bradley, Fontenot, Soto and Lee yet this team is only .5 games out of first place.
The way people around here are starting to act you’d think the Cubs havent won a game all season.
Too those people who where chanting “Woody” at the game or on this site. You either baseball stupid, blind or both because Wood right now for Cleveland has a 6.00 ERA 5 Saves so explain to me how Gregg who coming into today had a 3.86 era and 5 saves is worse the the crap that Wood has does so far?
by Galvan316 on May 16, 2009 6:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There is a lot of over reaction positive/negative on this site...
…but that’s just part of the blog growing and i think a broader audience , some of it is related to fans’ expectations for the season, maybe more so the latter.
I don’t think fans are stupid for wanting Wood here, he was a special player for Cubs fans and many wanted him re-signed. In terms of in the moment chanting Woody, some of that is ignorance and some of it is related to Wood being the face of the franchise. I haven’t looked at either pitchers’ stats, but apparently both are struggling at times this year. I’d still prefer Wood on this team but at the same time it’s counterproductive to remind Gregg of that during the game.