DeRosa trade was good?
Here is an update on what we got for trading DeRo
Early returns: The widely panned Mark DeRosa trade netted the Cubs three unknown relievers from Cleveland. But thus far, all three are faring well in the Cubs' system. Right-hander Jeff Stevens has a 2.04 earned-run average at Triple-A Iowa. Left-hander John Gaub is 2-0 with a 2.77 ERA at Double-A Tennessee, with 22 strikeouts in 13 innings. And right-hander Chris Archer is 1-0 with a 1.80 ERA at Class A Peoria, with 30 strikeouts in 25 innings.
from http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-22-cubs-bitsmay22,0,2542428.story
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
4 recs |
146 comments
Comments
Someone please stab me in the face with scissors.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 22, 2009 1:26 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Only if I can run at you while doing it.
Judd Sirott is responsible for EVERYONE'S injury. And all the current slumps.
Bradley watch -- out 10 games of 39
by znohitter on May 22, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got a snazzy Spork
will that work?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 22, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sporks rule!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 23, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats nice and all but...
can we please just place a lifetime banishment for anyone that starts a post with his name in it.
by Maefster88 on May 22, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as you send the Peavy and Roberts people there, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 22, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great.
Three minor league pitchers who might be helpful in a year or three.
Meanwhile, the Cubs could use DeRo.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 22, 2009 1:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Future Is Now
The Cubs have a window of opportunity to win a championship now. Yes, those minor leaguers may help down the line. With the Cubs still having a chance this season, I’d rather have DeRo than those pitchers.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on May 22, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In reality
It is plausible that 2 of these three could potentially help us as we near the end of the season and if our bullpen woes continue.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
by hansman1982 on May 22, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stevens, maybe.
The others, no way. We could use DeRo right now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 22, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CALL 'EM UP! DEPLETE THE FARM SYSTEM MORE!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."
--Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 22, 2009 1:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe they can play
back up all over instead of DeRo
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 22, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does calling them up
deplete the farm system? They’re still in the organization, and they can always be sent back down.
by Poloplaya14 on May 23, 2009 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not a big fan of calling up guys that are in A and AA ball?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."
--Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 23, 2009 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol came out of AA
He obviously struggled at first, but it seems to have jumpstarted his development.
by Poloplaya14 on May 23, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the reason Marmol struggled....
… was that he was miscast as a starter. Take a look at his starter game log — he usually had a good first 3-4 innings, then ran out of gas.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 23, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone considered
that if we had DeRosa right now, with the way DeRosa is hitting, there would be people calling for Lou to bench him to give Fontenot more playing time? I don’t get how the same people who are certain Fontenot is over-exposed just know that Hoffpauir won’t be, should he play everyday.
It was a decent gamble to give Fontenot a shot. We got a better return that we thought. We made a big mistake in not having a legit backup 3B/SS. That’s what Jim needs to fix. We don’t need a guy who can play OF/3B/2B. We need a guy who can play 3B/SS.
I was a huge fan of DeRosa as a Cub. I didn’t think we got enough for him in return. I’m glad to see that maybe I was wrong.
I don’t think we need him now.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 22, 2009 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I'll bet DeRosa would be hitting better...
…if he was still a Cub. After all, he did go to a new league with different pitchers to adjust to. Also, you never know if going to Cleveland affected him mentally — He seemed happy with the Cubs and he meshed well with the players.
What bugs me is that DeRosa was basically traded for Milton Bradley. IMO, Hendry jumped the gun — He coughed up $30M for a corner outfielder about a month before the other prized corner outfielders, Abreu and Dunn, signed for WAY less.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 22, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa played in the AL in 2005 and 2206 with the Rangers.
He played quite well, hence why the Cubs signed him to a 3 year contract in 2007.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 22, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yabbut 2 years removed from the AL...
…is quite a while for a hitter, don’t you think?
2206? Who won the WS in 2205? lol
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on May 22, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, before that he played for the Braves.
I’m a terrible typist. Maybe I can use my magic 8 ball to predict who will win the WS? I’m thinking the Las Vegas Snake Eyes (formerly known as the Nationals).
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 22, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa hit very well in Wrigley Field.
Think the ballpark might have something to do with it? I do.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 22, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes and no
IMHO with inter league play, trades, and free agency, you see a lot of the same pitchers no matter if you play in the NL or AL. 30 years ago it would have been a bigger challange.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 22, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy that.
First off, as others have mentioned he played in the AL fairly recently.
Secondly, the whole “adjusting to the pitchers” thing seems silly to me. It’s not like pitchers in the AL are complete opposites of pitchers in the NL. They all throw the same pitches. And they all use the same type of motion to throw those pitches. It’s not like a guy’s going from American pitching to Japanese pitching. Hitters adjust to a new pitcher every game, usually multiple times.
by kanderber on May 22, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa
.253, with 51 runs produced. How many runs have Fontenot and Miles contributed,? or in that case add Bradley.
DeRosa probably has them all beat combined.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on May 22, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wrong
Bradley, Miles and Fontenot have 57 runs+RBI’s combined, the 3 of them have DeRosa beat by 6.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on May 22, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
If one of the pitchers comes up and has 3-4 good seasons as a reliever, it’s a great deal. Which would you rather have: DeRosa for one year, or a sub-3 ERA reliever for 3 seasons?
by Poloplaya14 on May 23, 2009 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt any of those guys are sub 3 ERA pitchers
Also, relievers are inherently not that valuable. The league average reliever in the NL had a 4.10 ERA. A reliever with a 3.00 ERA would only save 7 more runs than an average reliever would. Over 162 games, 7 runs isn’t that important. It’s worth less than a full win. DeRosa on the other hand is a 3-4 win player.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 24, 2009 3:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
7 more runs than an average reliever would
per 60 innings.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 24, 2009 3:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The return was good
but the question is more whether it smart to trade him when the Cubs window for winning is this year?
by rlpete on May 22, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Someone please bludgeon me with a heavy object
Cubs window of opportunity to win is NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark DeRosa was enormously valuable and is enormously missed. There is little solace knowing that three pitching prospects are doing well in the system.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on May 22, 2009 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Haven't you criticized the Cubs for the lack of talent in the minor leagues?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 22, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're trying to WIN
Losing Mark DeRosa was the dumbest thing every done by Jim Hendry. And we are paying a dear price for it.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on May 22, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can almost see the answer to cows question in that response...
if I rearrange all the letters.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 22, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes because Hendry KNEW Aramis was gonna get hurt.
Hindsight makes everyone a genius.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on May 22, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ARam
Cubswynn- while he’s played in the majority of games with the Cubs, he’s been very injury prone. Add that with him getting older, then you have a great risk by trading him without a true backup plan.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
by propheteer on May 23, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you out of your mind?
Wait, that’s redundant.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 22, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not hindsight when you're talking about a guy like Ramirez
who has always had injury problems throughout his career.
When DeRosa was first traded on New Year’s Eve, that was the main thing that most people were worried about back then; what did trading deRosa do to our depth, esp. considering A-Ram’s injury history.
Nothing to do with hindsight-just a decent grasp of recent Cubs’ history (that Hendry apparently wasn’t paying as much attention to as a lot of us)
by bluekoolaide on May 22, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
100 % RIGHT .....
Based on past injuries to some key players..It made to sense to deal DERO then and it makes no sense now…..
by cubs north on May 22, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how did it make sense to deal DeRosa then?
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 24, 2009 3:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Completely. I’d give back Stevens, Gaub and Archer in a heartbeat to have DeRosa playing 3B right now for the Cubs. In addition, if Gaub isn’t ready to be a LH reliever out of the pen in the majors right now, or least can do the same job that Neil Cotts is doing (or not doing) then his value is zero to the Cubs. If the organization has its mind set on developing a LH reliever, it has bigger problems to begin with. Call him up and let him fail. At least there would be some merit to the DeRosa deal….and no I don’t count the ridiculous contract of Aaron Miles as meritorious.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on May 22, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that window was 2003, 2007 and 2008.
and the Cubs didn’t seal the deal. I think the window’s beginning to close, Blue Mike. This team has more problems that just missing one player, and in your most critical, negative points, you’ve offered that same line of thought.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 23, 2009 2:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Fontenot needs to be sent to Des Moines
There, I said it. He needs to completely regroup and get back to basics. Hopefully in a several weeks he can be ready to reassume a big league job, but NOT in the manner in which he has been expected to be an everyday player this season. Fontenot needs to be a 200 or so at bat type of a guy. He can be valuable to a team if the luxury exists to use him properly. Like it did last year but like it doesn’t this year.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on May 22, 2009 2:40 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Well
Fontenot is struggling indeed, but a trip to AAA isn’t going to help him. Plus, I’d rather see 600 AB’s of Fonetenot failing before I have to watch one more AB of Aaron Miles desperately trying to get the ball out of the infield.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on May 22, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fontenot is real messed up and real, real, real bad right now
Best thing for him and the ballclub is to ship him to Des Moines and let him get his offensive game back together. Then call him back up in several weeks and find a way to start using the right way. We can’t have an automatic out in Fontenot’s spot in the lineup anymore. The luxury of letting him work things out with the Cubs doesn’t exist right now.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on May 22, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he does appear to have an option left.
But, as krummy pointed out, then the Cubs are stuck with Miles/Scales at 2B, both of whom are less effective defensively and would probably leave the Cubs just as bereft of offense. Maybe Scales could continue to surprise us for a while – and he does offer far greater speed than Miles – but I doubt Lou would give him most of the playing time over Miles.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 22, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold on people...
…of course we all know the Mark Derosa deal looks bad now that Aramis got hurt. Can we all agree to that? However I read on BCB all the time about how bad our farm system is and how badly Hendry has messed it up. Yet those same people are bemoaning this deal??? You can’t have it both ways.
And please don’t forget, Mark Derosa isn’t lighting the world on fire. Could the love affair please end already?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on May 22, 2009 3:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I third this 1,000 percent
The amount of teeth-gnashing and breast-beating and ridiculous hyperbole about Mark F. DeRosa is ridiculous, and so uniquely Cub fan.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 22, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find if hard to believe
that people don’t think that this team would better off with DeRosa. Goodness, what did the Cubs get in return that is helping this club RIGHT now? Nothing. They have Miles and Fontenot who are doing nothing. Zero. As I stated above, DeRosa has 51 runs produced to Miles, Fontenot AND Bradleys 57, So he wouldn’t help this team?
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on May 23, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's do a head-to-head comparison.
Against right-handed pitching,
Fontenot is hitting .214/.319/.408 with 5 HRs.
DeRosa is hitting .234/.309/.355 with 3 HRs.
Against left-handed pitching,
Miles is hitting .333/.375/.533 with 0 HRs.
DeRosa is hitting .317/.349/.610 with 3 HRs.
So, is the Fontenot-Miles platoon really that much worse than Mark DeRosa?
Yes, Milton Bradley has been a big disappointment. But there’s reason to hope he’ll find a way to be productive.
Meanwhile the three guys can help this club RIGHT now in a trade if Jim Hendry wishes to trade them. Their value has gone up while DeRosa’s has gone down. We could not trade DeRosa right now to help the team if we still had him. We can trade them.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 23, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
I just look at what wins games, Runs produced. DeRosa is better in that department
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on May 23, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hah, okay.
Runs produced is a team-dependent stat because it relies on the production of others. You may as well be using RBI to back up your opinion because it really doesn’t hold any merit if you claim that “Runs Produced” wins games.
"Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them, well, I have others." - Groucho Marx
by Keith on May 24, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not give Adres Blanco or Starlin Castro a chance?
Is that too big of a jump for Castro? The guy has a 1.000 OPS against lefties. Or does that burn an option year?
I just don’t see DeRosa coming back, as badly as I want it.
by dr stabbingworth on May 22, 2009 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Waay to big a jump on Castro
Castro is 19 years old and in the Florida State League.
Blanco could get called up, except that Blanco played three seasons in Kansas City and was awful. I don’t know why we would expect him to be better now, although he is only 25.
by Josh77 on May 22, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm very happy with the pitchers we got..
If you look at the farm teams, Stevens (24), Gaub (24 – LH Reliever), and Archer (20) are amont the top 2 pitchers on the team at that level. It’s a huge relief knowing that some legitimate talent is there. If they keep it up, Stevens and maybe even Gaub will be ready this year.
Also, considering the rationale that DeRosa’s salary was moved so we could sign Bradley, and looking at Bradley’s sensational 2008, it made a lot of sense at the time. If I was a GM before the season, and you told me that I could get Bradley’s bat and thee young arms in exchange for DeRosa and the salary difference, I would have jumped at it. If Bradley stinks it up the rest of this (still early) year, I think it’s bad luck over bad GM’ing.
P.S. My first BCB post (woohoo!)
by DisCUBbobulated on May 22, 2009 5:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the site.
I hope Bradley produces. If he does, the deal looks a lot better. Obviously, we couldn’t have anticipated Ramirez’s injury and thus the need for someone like DeRosa.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 22, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a bad deal
even if Bradley produces. Between Ramirez and Bradley, you could have easily predicted 80 or so games missed because of injury or prevention of injury. Add to that starts at second against left-handers, plus the occaisional start in left to rest Soriano, and there could easily be 400 at bats for DeRosa even with a producing Bradley.
Instead, those at-bats are going to Aaron Miles and Ryan Freel, which is probably a drop of 100 points off of DeRosa’s OPS.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on May 22, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
great user name. welcome.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 22, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree about anticipating Ramirez's injury
How many times has he been on the dl since he came to the Cubs? He’s a great hitter, a solid fielder and probably our best player but durability has never been his strength.
True, we might not have been able to anticpate an injury of this magnitude but, given his history, there was no reason to believe he’d make it through the season without one or two DL stints, hence the value of a guy like DeRo.
by bluekoolaide on May 22, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree with you replying to bluekoolaide
as I believe you meatn to reply to Al
(smart a$$ Cubbie-Tim alert)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 22, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I agree with you on the value of DeRo.
However, the team probably could have weathered two weeks without A-Ram, without DeRo as well.
Two months, not so much.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 22, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Value of DeRo to Cubs in 2008 which was a career year for him.
Last season when Soriano was out of the lineup and the great Mark DeRosa was on the team the Cubs were 28-26, just for relevance the Cubs were 69-38 with Sori in the lineup. So, the Cubs were only 2 over .500 with DeRo in those 54 games without Sori. How could this be? Do you think that DeRo would make a significant difference in A-Ram’s absence this season when he’s actually having a worse year? When a team loses a significant player like Soriano or Ramirez they are most likely going to have some struggles. There is no reason to believe that right now this team couldn’t be at least 2 games over .500 while Aramis is out and that’s without DeRo.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 23, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're making irrelevant comparisons.
DeRosa didn’t replace Soriano in the lineup — Reed Johnson, Eric Patterson and others did.
FYI, the 2008 Cubs were 88-55 with DeRosa in the starting lineup, 9-9 without him in the lineup.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 23, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without DeRo in lineup is a sample size that's not comparable to Soriano not in lineup
It is fair to compare how the team would do without Aramis as to how it did without Soriano. My comparison may not fit your narrative but it’s not irrelevant. I illustrated how this team did for a prolonged period of time without Soriano but with DeRosa and how it is probably similar to what we could expect from this team without Ramirez and without DeRosa. DeRosa did not keep our team from struggling without Soriano and would not keep this team from struggling without Ramirez, there is your relevancy.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 23, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Supposedly
the Indians want pitching for DeRosa. Maybe they’d take their pitchers back, and everyone would be happy. I still think the only reason we made the trade in the first place was because Hendry thought he needed those guys for a Peavy deal. We need DeRosa more than we need Peavy (though if we got Peavy, I wonder if Harden could close and move Gregg to the 7th inning.)
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on May 22, 2009 8:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd send those pitchers back.
Yes, they might be good later. But what if DeRo comes back and the Cubs win in part because of that? We’d all take that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 23, 2009 5:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But why
should we have to give up all three? Hasn’t their value increased and DeRosa’s gone down?
I certainly wouldn’t give up Archer here. That guy looks like he could be something special.
by Josh77 on May 23, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I absolutely agree
Even if I wanted to redo the trade (I don’t), there is no way DeRosa is as valuable as he was when Hendry traded him.
Censorship of anything, at any time, in any place, on whatever pretense, has always been and will always be the last resort of the boob and the bigot.
—Eugene O’Neill
by 14theofleury on May 23, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you'd rather have Aaron Miles and not win this year?
I’m not saying DeRosa is “the” answer. But he is “an” answer to a pressing problem, which the team wouldn’t have had if they had kept him.
WIN NOW.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 23, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But shouldn't
Cleveland be willing to trade DeRosa for less than they got him for?
by Josh77 on May 23, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends what they are looking for.
If they’re looking to clear some salary room and get prospects, maybe.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 23, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody's mentioned
that the guys we picked up for DeRosa could be shipped at the trade deadline for an even better player in what will be a great buyer’s market due to the recession.
by Poloplaya14 on May 23, 2009 12:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Like who?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 23, 2009 7:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ted Williams is available
Sure, he’s a little cold right now.
by Josh77 on May 23, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Peavy for starters
But since the Cubs are desperate for a bat now, they’ll probably look for a hitter. It’s been said , but Brian Roberts looks real nice right now. You’re not hearing the rumors yet since it’s still May, but as we get closer to July, teams out of the race will be desperate to cut costs in this economy and a lot of good talent will be made available.
by Poloplaya14 on May 23, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Papelbon for relievers.
Censorship of anything, at any time, in any place, on whatever pretense, has always been and will always be the last resort of the boob and the bigot.
—Eugene O’Neill
by 14theofleury on May 23, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And not the crappy ones in our farm system.
Censorship of anything, at any time, in any place, on whatever pretense, has always been and will always be the last resort of the boob and the bigot.
—Eugene O’Neill
by 14theofleury on May 23, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
was that a typo?
or do really have more than one Papelbon in the Cubs farm system?
by CubFanInCanberra (9387milesfromWrigley) on May 24, 2009 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest, I am beginning to think that window
of opportunity has closed. So, if the minor league system can improve a bit, I’m all for it.
We need to stop looking backward at “100 years.” The team is competitive, and has made the playoffs 2 years in a row.
Things just may not fall the Cubs way this season. Nothing seems to be goiing right, rather every little thing seems to be happening, (just like the 2008 Cardinals) and injuries are piling up.
Maybe it’s time to rachet back expectations, and make sure the club stays competitive. If that means planning for the future instead of today, so be it.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 23, 2009 2:12 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Such an even-keeled, rational post
…is a real breath of fresh air. More of this and less chest-beating, hair-pulling angst, please!
Oh, and rec’d and greenified…
by CubFanInCanberra (9387milesfromWrigley) on May 24, 2009 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
I thought the Cubs were done in 2003 when Patterson went down. It’s early, and the Cubs have a lot of talent to be thinking about the future. There are no great teams in the NL, just make the playoffs.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on May 24, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
derosa
anyone that would rather have scales/fontenot/freel at third base raise your hand.hendry has done a lot of good things over the years but trading a valuable player like derosa was idiotic.
by NOMAR on May 23, 2009 11:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nomar -
We’d all rather have DeRosa at 3B, but DeRosa wasn’t going to sit on the bench waiting for Rami to get hurt. I think the question of DeRosa is confused by three things right now.
1) We wish we had a 3B, but no one has a bench player like DeRosa waiting around for injury, unless they have one of the handful of top 3B prospects ready to go at AAA.
2) Miles and Fonty’s overall lines look bad; and yet taken as a platoon, they actually exceed DeRosa’s production.
3) Hendry suggested moving DeRosa was about saving money for Bradley and Bradley hasn’t hit; except that DeRosa’s money went mostly to Miles and Bradley should be able to turn this season around unless he’s playing through injuries.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 23, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet you have credit problems.
Why save money that you could be spending today?
Censorship of anything, at any time, in any place, on whatever pretense, has always been and will always be the last resort of the boob and the bigot.
—Eugene O’Neill
by 14theofleury on May 23, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Need momentum
The team could definitely use a player like DeRosa right now, but this is indeed hindsight. He might be hitting better than he is now if he was on a different team and facing different opponents; we’ll never know.
Last season’s Fukudome flop and the failure to hit RHPs in post season had a huge impact on personnel decisions. While I think Marquis and Wood were the biggest money moves, DeRosa was also a part of making room for Bradley money. It is good to get something for players instead of letting them become free agents and getting nothing. So, the problem is filling-in with what now seems less capable or less proven lefties.
Losing Ramirez to injury is significant. Bradley might still come around and we need more from Soriano. If the momentum is going to swing in a positive direction, Bradley, Soriano and a strong Ramirez return have to be involved. I would play Hill and Johnson more. Use Scales at 3rd for now, Miles / Fontenot at 2nd and hope Theriot can keep playing everyday. Not at all ideal for an infield. I don’t know about Lee. If he doesn’t come around soon, then he should come off the bench or go on the DL for a spell if they want to call-up somebody else like Fox. They should do something about Cotts.
by AboutTheCubs on May 23, 2009 1:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I am surprised
no one is blaming the WBC for DeRosa yet
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 23, 2009 1:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It appears Soto
didn’t get the reps he needed to prepare for the season. Some teams from South America didn’t even have places to get their act together. They just came and played. Combine that with the fact that Soto seems to have gained 15 to 20 pounds since last year…
I think you can make a case that the WBC didn’t help a young player who may not have learned good work habits yet. Next year will be the real test for Soto to prove he’s the real deal or a bust.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 23, 2009 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Interesting. I’d be glad to have a full citation for that story and wonder what Soto would be willing to talk about in regards to his struggles if he was interviewed. Does he feel like he needed to do more to prepare?
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 23, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Puerto Rico in South America now?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 23, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 23, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Iam sure Puerto Rico
had places to get prepared, stop making insane b.s. excuses for Soto. The WBC is not why he is not playing well in MAY. If he was not in shape because he did nothing to prepare from Late October until February, that is not the WBCs fault, that is Soto’s fault.
and Puerto Rico is not part South America
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 23, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the players on the Mexican National Team
told a local sports station that they didn’t have a dedicated practice location. Some worked out on their own — and just entered the tournament with no real preparation.
I think it was Scott Hairston who made these remarks, but I don’t remember for sure.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 23, 2009 2:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Scott Hairston
is having a great season.
by Josh77 on May 23, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say it again ..
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
by cubnational on May 23, 2009 7:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs will rue the day they let Mark DeRosa go
And they are doing the rueing NOW ..
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
by cubnational on May 23, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another brain stem
How about the day the Cubs let Maddux walk? Does trading DeRo come close to that?
Unbelievable. Un-freaking-believable.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 23, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 1993 Cubs...
… without Greg Maddux, finished 13 games out of first place. Maddux alone wouldn’t have made up those 13 games.
Mark DeRosa could help this team, right now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 23, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The long-term
effects of losing Maddux were devastating to the Cubs.
The long-term effects of losing DeRosa won’t be.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 23, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to believe that you have to defend your point that Greg Maddux's departure was more significant than Mark DeRosa's.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 23, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never seen anything like
this DeRosa-fest. Like I said, maybe Cubs fans deserve the reputation they have sometimes.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 23, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if DeRosa was not traded
the Cubs would be undefeated with an ERA of 0.00, dont ya know?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 23, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Al, the more I think about it,
the more I simply can’t believe the comparison you drew. That’s breathtaking.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 23, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we can use those prospects in our system
to acquire a particular pitcher from San Diego
Don't assault me and I won't assault you, because you don't know what I will, or won't, do. I'm going to end it with that. - Milton Bradley 2003 to Paul Lo Duca
by SouthsideCUBSfan on May 24, 2009 3:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How is this a recommended FanPost...
…talk about a broken system.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money."
--Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 24, 2009 3:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
At least it's not about
a bird pooping on Rich Hill.
by Josh77 on May 24, 2009 5:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That post, at least, was a bit of fun.
Unlike the last six games.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 24, 2009 5:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The same way
there were THREE Peavy/White Sox posts up there just yesterday (two still remain). That’s just silly.
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
by Goodie1969 on May 24, 2009 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay, I'll admit it...
I was one of the ones that recommended this FanPost…
and a big reason I did was to try to move those damn Peavy posts off the list…
by CubFanInCanberra (9387milesfromWrigley) on May 24, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see someone de-rec'd this post, so it dropped off the rec list.
I’ll add mine to get it back on and get at least one of the Peavy posts off the list.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 24, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I rec'd and de-rec'd.
I rec’d because I thought an interesting conversation was starting. I de-rec’d because I thought it really hadn’t gotten going as I had hoped. It was a tenuous rec at first, too, because I’d really have liked to have heard some more analysis from Hoosier Fan in the original fanpost. I’d still like to hear more of what he/she thinks.
I’m interested in this subject because I think my views on this trade have headed in the opposite direction of most of the rest of BCB. I didn’t like the trade at first, but have grown to appreciate it more. Others seem to be on the opposite path.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 24, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your reasoning.
I also understand the reasoning behind wanting to get three separate Peavy posts off the rec list.
This is an interesting topic, because it does appear DeRosa is on the trading block and I (along with some others) think he’d be useful to the Cubs. You disagree. We’ll see what, if anything, happens.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 24, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree that he'd be useful.
I think we really need a legit 3B. And I think the mistake in the offseason was not in moving DeRosa, but in assuming Ramirez could stay healthy 155 games.
I think it’s no less of a mistake to assume that Theriot can stay healthy 155 games.
That’s why I’d prefer to use our limited trade chips on a player that can be useful in different ways than DeRosa would be.
That said, as a fan, I’d be really happy to see Mark DeRosa back in a Cub uniform.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 24, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What different ways?
If you are worried about Theriot playing that many games — then, well, wouldn’t DeRosa be valuable there as well?
What other player(s) would you suggest looking at?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 24, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou has shown no interest in playing DeRosa at SS.
I think we need a player who can play a strong SS. I like the options the Angels have, Izturis and Wood, the best. You’ve suggested Izturis before and Wood has an active thread right now, so no need to go into that.
Then, not considering current availability or cost so much, at one point I thought guys like Bartlett, Lugo, or Scutaro might be options at some point. None of those three are exciting options, but where are we going to be if Theriot’s back acts up again?
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 24, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey DGU
I’m still new to the FanPost game and next time I’ll throw in more analysis. I just threw this up because I knew BCBers are missing DeRo and I had no idea that the guys were got for him are doing well, so I thought some other people might not know that too. So I thought I was contributing some new information to the DeRo discussions.
Some people didn’t see it that way and don’t want any more DeRo posts, which is fine. I guess they already knew what we got for DeRo, I don’t follow the minor leagues very closely, just the major league Cubs
by HoosierFan on May 24, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HoosierFan
It was good info and I’m glad you brought it to our attention. Obviously it sparked conversation.
I look forward to hearing more from you.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 24, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the time...
The trade looked horrible. Give these guys one or two more years, and they might be in the Major League roster or good trade bait. All DeRosa is doing is calling a lot of attention to give the Indians some more prospects.
by JackofAllTrades on May 24, 2009 6:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And in a few more years...
…if those guys had all panned out for the Indians (unlikely), then the Indians couldn’t have afforded them anyway and we could have picked them up then.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 26, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs could have formulated a plan to get DeRo a start almost every day
Especially since Bradley and Aramis are so injury prone. Could have started him at third once a week, right once, first once, second two or three.
These pitching prospects might be nice, but it also might have cost us our championship window. Long-term I can see why people are happy DeRosa got traded, but this isn’t about the long term. Screw the long term, three middle relief pitchers don’t mean jack in AA when the big club is trying to win it all. Anybody who wouldn’t trade a championship this year for 5 crap years after is an idiot.
Oh Mark DeRosa how we need you at third base.
by nji232 on May 24, 2009 6:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
derosa
there is no bromance going on here.the reason dero is missed???he played anywhere you asked and usually did the job.one thing cub fans appreciate is a player who gives his all. you cant tell me this is a better team without him.
by NOMAR on May 25, 2009 8:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I think the Cubs will make out on this deal when it is all said and done.
As much as you guys love DeRo, he is not the difference maker between making the playoffs or sitting at home in October this year.. He is just a depth guy with a knack for some big hits.
It’s pretty good odds that he will get traded this season to a contender (which the Indians hope will net them a Casey Blake-type of haul) and be available to sign for 2010 year (probably at a reduced cost).
Stevens, on the other hand, has the potential to be a major league set-up guy. Especially if he can get his control issues in check.
by Toxicadam on May 25, 2009 11:53 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
"A depth guy with a knack for some big hits".
Gee, seems to me we could use someone exactly like that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 25, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt DeRosa is going to be signed at a "reduced cost".
As it stands now, he’s making $3M more than Aaron Miles. There’s no way that gap is going to get smaller after DeRosa finishes his (very productive) contract that Hendry gave him in 2007.
The idea that the Cubs, a rich, big market team, should be trading their key contributors for guys whose upside is “MLB middle reliever” is kind of ridiculous. We can buy MLB middle relievers (and have, repeatedly.)
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 26, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a considerable difference..
between a “MLB middle reliever” and a “MLB setup man”. You’re talking about the difference between a Heath Bell and a David Riske.
If you haven’t noticed, the going price for a proven, big league setup guy is Scott Linebrink. Not someone that is just readily available on the market every year.
DeRosa is not a key contributor. He is a super utility guy. Aramis Ramirez is a key contributor. Victor Martinez is a key contributor. DeRosa is a luxury item for most playoff contending teams.
You’re also talking about a guy who will be 35 years old and will (most likely) be coming off a season that will statistically be less significant than his previous two were. He would be fortunate to find a team that would take him at 3yrs/12.x million.
by Toxicadam on May 26, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats' a fair point.
Of course, I don’t see why the Cubs can’t just address that need as it becomes apparent, acquiring the Kevin Greggs and Bobby Howrys of the world as need be.
And yes, DeRosa was a key contributor to last year’s team. There is no other way to spin it. A 118 OPS+, 21 HR, 103 runs scored and 87 driven in, while logging time at 4 positions (and one time at SS and 1B) – that’s a key contributor. Utility guys – even “super” utility guys – don’t get 600 plate appearances, or start 143 games.
Finally, the Cubs fancied themselves a contending team. They should have “luxury items” like a Mark DeRosa – especially considering his moderate cost and expiring contract.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 26, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea who cares derosa or aaron miles? i would say derosa
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 25, 2009 8:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In order of preference
1. Keep DeRosa, pay him $5.5M in ‘09.
2. Trade DeRosa for 3 Indians prospects, *don’t* sign Miles, go into 2009 with Cedeno backing up the infield at MLB minimum.
3. Trade DeRosa for 3 Indians prospects, pay Miles $5M over 2 years.
Losing DeRosa and giving his $$ to Miles is the worst of all worlds.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 26, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if we didn't trade Cedeno
we wouldn’t have Aaron Heilman locking things down in the bullpen.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on May 26, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how Hendry gets about certain players.
Hendry gets tunnel vision for the most random players sometimes.
Michael Barrett, for instance, was eventually acquired at the end of a multi-year quest.
It seems like Hendry’s had his eye on Aaron Heilman ever since Maestri said something good about him one time at Notre Dame 8 years ago.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 27, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have the answer
Instead of this back and forth over DeRo, let’s try something crazy….
Trade for A-Rod. Now wait for it. Think about it, he’s hitting like .250 in New York, he’s had all this bad press about Steriods and he never really fit in there with Jeter. Let’s ship them Big Z, send Sori back to the team that brought him into the bigs, Lee and Soto.
There I’ve solved all our problems:
1) We have a hitting 3B
2) Wells stays in the rotation
3) Hoff get’s to play LF
4) Fox gets called up to play 1B
5) Hill gets to bat everyday
That should take care of all the Cubs problems, what’s next?
(Where’s that sarcasism button on this dang keyboard)
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on May 26, 2009 4:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like it
but only if we eat a lot of the contractsw, since we dont want to be unfair to NYY with the price tags. Can we also get a PTBNL in the deal?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 26, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now you getting pushing
A PTBNL? I don’t you are asking for a lot there.
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on May 26, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would just worry
that A-Rod would have trouble adjusting to all the attention Theriot gets.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on May 26, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what do when A-Ram comes back...
Shift A-Rod to SS (his natural position)
Install A-Ram at 3B
Shift The-Riot to 2B
My concern is with can we replace The-Riot’s power numbers with A-Rod? As of right now T-Rio has 5 Homers and is Slugging .455 while A-Rod only has 7 Homers and is Slugging .672 has lost a step.
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on May 26, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe once Rami is back
we can move ARod for DeRo?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 26, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
THE TRADE WAS A MISTAKE ...
Then and a mistake now ……Lets hope the club can bounce back from this whatever they are in……
by cubs north on May 26, 2009 5:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As much as
I think DeRosa brings much of what we need (aside from pitching out of the pen), I don’t see how we could realistically get him back.
The egos of the GMs involved would get in the way. If Hendry doesn’t steal him from the Indians, he looks like a fool for losing DeRo when we needed him in April and May, AND he overpaid to amend his mistake.
If Hendry gets him back, and the Indians don’t get close to what they gave up back, then the Indians GM looks stupid for sending well-performing prospects to Chicago for a 2 month rental of a guy who didn’t hit well, AND he doesn’t get the draft pick when DeRo becomes a FA.
I don’t see this trade happening unless the Indians want Jake Fox desperately.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on May 26, 2009 6:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And...
I think this is right on the money.
I hated the DeRosa trade and still do to this day. He was my favorite Cub in a long time because he added a lot to this club. A leader, diversity on the field, very solid and reliable hitter. We need all three of those characteristics right now.
And Cleveland will willingly deal DeRo, sadly it won’t be to the Cubs. I don’t think Hendry’s ego can handle being wrong, which is why I feel when DeRo is “officially” on the market he’ll let someone else pick him up and he’ll settle for the second best utility man to DeRosa. That’s what he did the entire offseason, and that’s why we’re not the kind of force we should be in this division. It’s not just DeRosa. Hendry missed a lot of good chances this past offseason and made some pretty horrendous trades.
Guess who needs an infielder? The Cardinals need a third baseman (according to MLBTR) and the Brewers need a second baseman. If Hendry were smart he’d bring DeRosa back before those teams get at him, because I can almost guarantee one of them will pick him up. But I have a feeling all Hendry will do is sit on his hands and wait too long, maybe make another unnecessary attempt at Jake Peavy.
It sounds silly, but given Hendry’s track record, would you be surprised?
by AeroZach on May 27, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's ego at all.
It’s money.
One team that could use DeRo is Tampa Bay. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 27, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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