Zambrano remains an idiot
by BLou on May 27, 2009 3:46 PM CDT
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PrintCarlos Zambrano is an immature jackass. I've resigned myself to the fact that he is never going to grow up. While he is a true workhorse and invaluable member of the Cub pitching staff, he also is unfufilled potential year in and year out. His latest antics today against Pittsburgh are inexcusable and embarassing for the organization. Grow up Carlos and stop being a self-absorbed jackass. Your act has gotten very, very tired. If I were Lou Piniella and Larry Rothschild I'd grab you by the neck and scream until my voice was hoarse.
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Its hard to blame a guy for being a natural competitor. He has also been like that and will continue to be like that. We all know that these umpires don’t do a whole lot to help the situation. It was obvious that the umpire moved into Carlos which caused him to bump him a little bit. If Lou isn’t going to throw a tantrum at this time, then Z would be next in line to do so.
Len said he bumped the ump...
…but it didn’t look like it to me on TV. While I agree he’s an idiot, I’m not so sure this wasn’t a little bit calculated. His day was just about done. The game had just been tied because of a miscue. Maybe this is the kick in the ass this team needs. The bats sure seem to be responding.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
You're blind !!
ZAMBRANO’S ARM TOUCHED THE UMPIRE !!! My God do we need to live through the semantics of the rule again like we did with Milton Bradley?!?! YOU CAN’T TOUCH THE GOD DAMNED UMPIRE !!!! Zambrano is a guarantee for a SUSPENSION. This is inexcusable. Then to run into the dugout like a little girl and brush off Larry Rothschild’s attempt to calm him down???
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
So what if he's suspended
He misses 3 games….won’t miss a start and Jake Fox can PH instead.
I’m sure that’s the last time in a while he’ll do that to an ump.
They suspend pitchers long enough to miss at least one start
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I think we're looking 5-7 games
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 27, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Ya know........
….. I actually agree with you. I think Zambrano is all the things you said. But you say it around here in such a way where I now want to take a shower for admitting it.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I was watching the replay on my iPhone.
I know what the rule is, I was just saying it didn’t look like it to me.
You know what else is inexcusable, is your language. I gurantee you don’t have the balls to talk to people like that on the street. Keep hiding behind your keyboard tough guy.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Completely agree
Zambrano touched the ump AFTER contact was initiated by the umpire. Umps can apparently bump a player and get him suspended and that’s ok, but as soon as a player does it he is vilified. Perfect example is the ump that touched Magglio a few weeks ago. Ump issued an apology, yet the MLB did and said nothing! I know the ump didn’t touch Magglio with the intent of injury, but if a player can be suspended for brushing the ump’s cap, why aren’t umps suspended when they do wrong?
It’s a complete double standard, and it is making things worse as long as Selig and Watson do nothing about it. One of these times the ump is gonna initiate contact and get worse than a bump back.
When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch. -Ty Cobb
oh come on
cut Larry some slack. Zambrano had a bat and was determined to f**k that Gatorade cooler up. I wouldnt get in the way of that.
The umpire does lean into him.
And history has shown anything from you must be considered with a grain of salt.
What Zambrano does do is push with the obverse side of his forearm after the umpire made the first contact — so that would get him suspended. But the video clearly shows the umpire touches him first. Undeniably.
Make it happen baby: Cubs, Jaguars, FSU, Jazz, Thrashers.
B Lou
you are flat out wrong. the umpire made first contact. 10 years ago, umpires would have never come close to confronting a player like this (same goes for what happened to magglio ordonez this season). umpires today are far too confrontational and way too aggressive. you can blab on and on all you want about the rule concerning players making contact with umpires, but it all changes when the ump makes the first move towards contact. i do not in any way support the kind of act zambrano displayed after being ejected, but please look at the video tape
+1 on the calculation...
… as i said in the game thread, people were calling for a good old-fashioned Lou blow-up this morning. Why can’t a Z blow-up have the same effect?
His day was over. He may lose a start because he took it too far, but the rest of the team seemed to respond.
If this is what it takes to put some passion in to those bats we were all lamenting as “lifeless” a week ago, so be it.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
What in Zambrano's history
Tells you he has that kind of premeditation capability?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Who cares?
I’ve done more than one thing today that i hadn’t thought of doing yesterday.
I’m not saying he FOR SURE decided in advance to throw the fit. I’m saying the second that run scored he likely knew his afternoon was over. This team has lacked fire, and he showed it.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I refuse to believe
Jake Fox and Andres Blanco and Reed Johnson, who put the game away and bailed out Zambrano and Soriano, were “inspired” by Zambrano behaving like a three-year-old
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I don't think
either Z or Soriano were “bailed out”.
The team won a game today. We, maybe, got stiffed on some calls, but we rallied and won. That’s what’s important.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
There was an energy after that wasn't there before...
… just because there isn’t a stat for team moral doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and can’t be affected by things like this.
Zambrano showed more fire and passion in those 30 seconds than we’d seen from the entire team the week prior. Its an intangible, sure. But its something.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
exactly
maybe they need to feel it’s them against the world. Light a fire, just don’t bump the ump.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Exactly...
… it wasn’t handled well. That Gatorade machine didn’t deserve what it got (for the second day in a row no less!), but a small part of me thinks he might have been slightly more measured in his response if his pitch count wasn’t already at 114. He was coming out anyways. He over-reacted, sure. But maybe, just maybe, this blow-up can substitute for the Lou one some were calling for this morning.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I kind of like the fire.
In terms of personality, I’d take Bradley, Z, and Lilly any day than good guy Lee.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I like the fire, too,
but think it selfish for him to be so out of hand that he will likely miss 1-2 starts. This team can’t afford to lose its best players unnecessarily. And that kind of display, coupled with Bradley’s conspiracy theories and Lilly’s outburst the other night, won’t win many close calls for the Cubs.
we have no idea how many
if any starts Z will miss.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you really think the league will let him
get away with what he did with no missed starts? If so, let me show you this ocean-front land I have for sale in Dallas . . .
what he did?
what, get bumped by the ump?
We just can’t suggest that he’s going to miss two or three. He’ll likely miss one. If the ump is suspended for as many games, then it’s fair.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree with how they argue,
shouldn’t get anywhere near the umps and risk a suspension. But I like the fight. There will be close calls against every team, do you think the umps are thinking the Milton is coming from home on a close play so if it’s close I’m going to ruin him? I don’t think so.
The only problem I see with Z, Bradley and Lilly is to channel the fire onto the field.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
With Z especially, we HAVE seen that fire on the field.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
That is part of him.
I’d rather his passion rub off on the others rather than the other’s calm approach rub off on him.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Lets talk about the missed starts...
… and the chance that we’ll lose those starts due to his absence, once we know how many starts he will miss and how they’ll turn out.
I’m talking intangibles here. I understand that in this stat obsessed game they are often overlooked, but look at what the Red Sox did as “idiots” in 2004.
We were lamenting the “lifelessness” of this team a week ago. We’ve been “lovable losers” for as long as i’ve been alive. You can’t keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. We can’t possibly know now, and will probably never be able to put a number on it, but maybe, just maybe, the “angry, chip-on-the-shoulder cubs” can do something with the rest of this season. And maybe, just maybe, this blow-up (which we would have expected of Lou) will be the spark that unites.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We're on the same page.
You just can’t measure intangibles.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
+1 recd
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
This would make a great poll -
Did Z’s antics inspire the team? Or are his antics a drag on the team?
Is the team gelling around frustration with the umps? Or are they distracted by their frustration with the umps?
Derrek Lee is good.
I'm sick of these guys blaming the umps.
How much longer before someone calls Len/Bob up in the booth? They had better watch what they say.
Ridiculous and petty. The boys need to grow up quickly because it’s not going to get any easier.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 27, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hadn't thought about the lifeless aspect...
but if he loses a start then maybe it hurts more than it helps.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
What did he do to you blou?
Your pure unmitigated hate of this man is getting ridiculous Blou. I even wonder if you hope the Cubs lose when he pitches.
It’s obviously personal.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
Pound sand up your ass
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
Sweet!
It’s been a while since someone got into a fight with cubstoseriesby100 and I’m on the board to see it. Need the entertainment :)
I really
I really should ignore it. He proved what kind of person he is by the end of his sentence.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
When it’s full of hate and personal like Blou and worf’s post it’s different than just saying he needs to calm down.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for your response which proves my point with one word.
I knew the minute this happened you’d post a hate filled diatribe. It’s personal and again I wonder if you hope the Cubs lose when he pitches.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
your vague responses
are obviously due to a lack of statistical knowledge.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
of course
I’ve read this book before.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I will want to see the replay for 1,000 different angles
Before I address the bumping thing again. Enough people I respect on the game thread said he was bumped.
However… throwing the ball into the stands is another matter entirely. That’s worth a suspension as well.
And not for nothing, Zambrano has a history. He was suspended for throwing at Edmonds.
I truly believe this man is on the verge of taking away more than he brings. I stand by my earlier comparison to Sosa.
He’ll bring a lot to the table. But is he a guy you can win with? I say no.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
We've won a division title 3 times with him.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course...
He’s 0-2 with a 4.34 ERA in the playoffs and his WHIP and Hits Per 9 are both significantly higher than they are in the regular season
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You are another one I wonder what he’s ever done to because of your deep burning hate.
Maybe you don’t want the Cubs to lose when he starts but you’re like the “people” that booed Grossman at the NFC title game AFTER THE BEARS WON!
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
...
WHIP and Hits Per 9 are dramatically overlooked numbers, too. They tell a story record and ERA simply will not.
Another person who blames the playoff failures on him.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't blame them on him
But today his actions were uncalled for.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
the whole team
has stunk in both post-season appearances.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
And the #1 starting pitcher, the ace, the lead guy
Is always front-and-center of what happens.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
ok.
I’m sure he’d be the first to take responsibility. But he WAS pulled in that first game in 07.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I know how much you hate him but I hate to point out facts but Dempster started game 1 in 08.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes he did
And he did because Zambrano has shown he couldn’t be trusted with it.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
that's stupid
that’s ridiculous. Dempster started game 1 to start game 5 if necessary because of his home/road splits.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
It should be a no-brainer
That your ace starts Game 1. You want 1-4 and possibly 7.
Zambrano should have had that ball. It speaks volumes that another pitcher was trusted with it
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
um
except that Dempster was just as good, if not a better, pitcher than Z last year.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
BINGO
So Z is not the ace, even though he’s paid like one and is deferred to as one.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
he's paid
what the market will bear.
Honestly — I simply don’t care. He pitches very well. That’s what I care about.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Worf
Seriously I want to not agree w/ you…. I really do. This pains me to agree somewhat with you.
I don’t hate Z at all. But I must admit you got a point about him needing to grow up some.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
He's needed to grow up for four years
And we keep waiting.
I defended him after he threw at Edmonds, saying he was young. I defended him after he broke his bat across his knee, saying he was passionate.
I defended him during Barrett-Gate, because, well, Z is more valuable than Barrett.
But he’s almost 28 years old. He should be at his absolute peak right now, a threat to win 18-22 games.
He’s not there.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Again spewing hate.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude... read the thread
It’s not just me and BLou this time
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
She's a dudette.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
How is that spewing hate?
Honestly, so many people (not just you) look at the poster’s name and allow that to influence what they read in the comments. Nothing Worf said in the comment you responded to was “spewing hate”. They were observations. Ones that I happen to agree with, by the way.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
oops...
I should’ve scrolled down before I posted. You already covered my point. :)
(Hope China is treating you well, btw! :))
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions
That's ok -- I think she needs to hear this a few times
Some others do, too.
And the vacation has been great so far – thanks!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Hate?
How is that “hate”? Are we defining “hate” as simply disagreeing with you? (I’m not being snarky here. I’ve enjoyed reading your comments in the past. I’m just a little confused by your stance here…)
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Where is the hate
in the post above. Z has some issues that should be apparent to anyone fan of his or not. Luckily he had his emotions under control enough to use a bat on the Gatorade machine and not a hand.
Honestly the first few times I saw it i thought Z tossing the ump and smashing the G machine was pretty hilarious. Then I realized he is being paid millions to pitch and I began to wonder why he was behaving like a guy at the local Y.
Fair or not these guys are PROFESSIONALS. It’s possible to play with passion and emotion without going apepoop when you get upset at a call. The problem with Z is when he loses it, he looks like he is completely out of control of his actions. That’s a dangerous and scary situation for all involved.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
If Z is so scary
why did the ump approach him?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I'm not one to get involved in silly I'm wittier than you arguments.
Watch the tape. Z approached the ump first. I assume you meant to somehow refer to the bump that came later. Unfortunately, in your rush to make a funny you confused yourself. The initial confrontation was Z approaching the ump while the ump was on his knee. The ump then stood up as Z was standing over him.
My point was that if you have a guy who loses his temper as much as Z and when he loses said temper he is so obviously out of control, it could lead to a dangerous situation.
And for the record I’m a Z fan. However, when I watch that replay the first thing that pops into my head is what if that ball slipped out of Z’s hand when HE initially approached the ump who was kneeling on his knee.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
However, when I watch that replay the first thing that pops into my head is what if that ball slipped out of Z’s hand when HE initially approached the ump who was kneeling on his knee.
It would drop to the ground?
Gravity works.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously?
He swung his arm. A swinging arm does not make a ball drop to the ground.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
depends on where it's pointed.
Z wasn’t making that kind of aggressive move towards the ump. Come on.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you might be missing my point
I’m not saying Z was or would purposely attempt to harm an ump. I’m not saying he attempted to strike the ump.
When he got upset part of his reaction was to swing his arm. The ball was in that hand and I’m just worried with such strong reactions and intensity that an accident might occur.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
you seem to think
that he’s a lot less in control than I think he is.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
However I just started to feel this way.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
Yes, talking about after the first exchange.
Z argued the call, nothing malicious or bad about the first approach.
What set him off was the approach of the ump, he pushed him away to prevent the ump making contact with him.
I don’t agree, he didn’t lose control until the ump approached him. And that’s what really set him off. My point to your post was that at no point did I feel that Z was going to do something dangerous to that ump.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I see your point on
there being nothing malicious about the first approach and I agree.
I don’t think he was malicious in what he did, I just worry that Z might dangerously lose control of his emotions. I don’t think Z is a malicious person, but if you lose control accidents can happen.
As I said I love Z and his fire. But you know what they say about playing with fire.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
I'd love for the good guys
Cubbies to win, but I think this team needs a little fire from some of it’s players.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I'm a huge proponent of intensity
and the like. But today I just got a bad feeling watching Z explode like that.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
Not the final one...
but it’s damn sure one of the steps you must make to get there.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
And when was the last time...
…we won a playoff series?
A division title doesn’t mean very much if you can’t make the most of it when it actually matters. Maybe that’s just me.
Let’s see game 1 of the 07 playoffs he was pulled when he was clearly doing well. In 08 he had 100 errors behind him in one inning.
In 03 he was 22 years old and yes he lost twice in the playoffs but Greg Maddux was a complete failure in his first playoff series.
Actually MAddux was never a great playoff pitcher.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Maddux and Zambrano
Those two will never be the same pitcher. Ever. Zambrano at this rate probably won’t ever win a Cy Young, Maddux has won a handful. I think we hit Zambrano’s peak from 2003-2006 and his ego has gotten the best of him since, ever since he got that contract.
An ace doesn’t put up an ERA between 3.80 and 4.50 when he’s getting paid $92 million. Just doesn’t work that way. An “ace” also doesn’t win 12-16 games a year either. An ace doesn’t let his rage get the best of him and may risk missing a start because he couldn’t control himself.
Z’s act has grown real tired lately.
Wins and ERA are not the best measure of a pitcher's performance.
Wins are team dependent so Z doesn’t always have control over whether or not he wins a game even though he often helps himself with his bat. You said yourself in a previous comment that ERA doesn’t tell the story so you are contradicting yourself. I mentioned this the other day and I will ask again. How much better is Zambrano supposed to be? People talk all this nonsense about potential but Zambrano has been one of the best pitchers in baseball over the last 5 seasons.
There is no pitcher in baseball that has thrown at least 100 innings over the last 5 seasons that has a lower slugging percentage against than Z does. That’s right batters have a lower slugging percentage against him than any other pitcher in the game. Over that same period of time he ranks 6th in limiting opponents OPS. So, he has demonstrated effectiveness and durability that rank him among this game’s elite. He has been an elite pitcher even if he hasn’t won 20 games or a Cy Young. It’s just silly to say he hasn’t reached his potential when he’s gotten these type of results.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
That’s pretty silly considering of the 8 and a half full seasons he’s been in the bigs they’ve been over 500 5 times with 3 division titles.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Amazing so you blame the 07 08 and 03 playoff losses on him?
You’re absolutely right he made every out as a hitter and gave up every hit as a pitcher.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
And yet you somehow seem to
Insinuate that he has gotten every hit and made every out as a pitcher.
That’s pretty silly considering of the 8 and a half full seasons he’s been in the bigs they’ve been over 500 5 times with 3 division titles.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I dont' think
he actually threw it into the stands. He threw it towards the outfield. The video shows that pretty clearly. This isn’t an instance of him hitting a spectator or anything.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
That would've been something to brag at the bar about..
if you were to get hit by Z there. :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Well when Ron Santo says he's bumped the ump
I’d say it’s a safe bet. B/c if there was even a possiblity he didn’t I’m sure Ronnie would have totally defended Z.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
You know I am almost always someone who doesn't rip players
But even if he didn’t bump him…………….. this isn’t behavior that is good for a team that is struggling anyways.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
but then why can't I express my disgust about it?
If Geo did that (and I would be president of his fan club and follow him if he went to another team) and if he did that I would also be disgusted.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
oh ok
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
without the bump and the maybe suspension
maybe these Cubs need a little fire under them
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
He is who he is. We're not going to change that.
200+ Ks, 12-16 Ws, 10-15 blow-ups per year. I’ll take him.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Doesn't spell "A-C-E" to me
And not worth the money he’s being paid and not worth the baggage.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
well
write a letter to Hendry, I guess. But he’s under contract, and we’re not likely to trade him.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah but...
….He’ll always be an inconsistent pitcher from start to start, Inning to inning and pitch to pitch, if he doesn’t learn to keep his composure. He is a good pitcher overall, but he’ll always be inconsistent and never the ace that he’s capable of being if he keeps letting his emotions get the better of him. here’s just to much stuff that goes on during a game that will bother him and throw him off his game.
Carlos is his biggest enemy.
Over time, your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face - Al Swearengen
by lemon20pie on May 27, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
The last line of your post is right on target sadly
Again don’t want to be agreeing… :(
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
+1111111111111111111111111111111
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
WHY THE HELL IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO YOU THAT HE BE AN 'ACE'?
Really man, it’s like your soul hinges on Zambrano being “the man”.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Because he's being paid like one and treated like one
How’s that?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
So making your same point over and over is going to fix this?
We’ve all heard this from you more than once. We get it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I'm really confused
as to why people don’t want their ace to be an ace.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Nobody here wants him to not be good....
but he’ll never be an ace. I’ve come to terms with that, you should too. It’ll help your blood pressure.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
from a purely financial standpoint...
That seems a bit strange to accept, given his contract. At least, that’s assuming that we judge payment based on expectation of performance.
I know I do, anyway. (Isn’t that the complaint about Miles? Or Marquis in past years? He received a contract that exceeds his potential, which while not his fault, is nonetheless extremely annoying since we could pay less for the same “service”)
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
what is there for us
to accept or not accept? We don’t work for the Cubs. We’re not Jim Hendry. We’re not Lou Piniella.
We root for laundry. But I love to watch Z play.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions
That may be more or less true...
But if the Cubs signed a Twinkie for $100 million dollars, I imagine that you’d have an opinion about it….despite the Twinkies mini-Cubs jersey.
It’s that type of opinion that I was referencing. I’m not the GM and so I don’t say too much about personnel decisions, but I still assess the kind of job I think the GM is doing. And I assume that the contracts given are rationally based on some kind of performance expectation.
It’s my estimation that the size of Z’s contract was given on the assumption that he’d be our Ace. That he doesn’t live up to that in temperment/performance (even though he’s still pretty darn good) is cause for consternation, I think.
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions
if the cubs signed a twinkee
to a $100 million contract, the players’ association would go ape.
The size of Z’s contract is the size it is because that’s what his agent and Hendry negotiated. He’s an excellent pitcher.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I'm not being clear.
My twinkie idea was supposed to be an extreme example to illustrate that while most of us might generally get that we’re not GMs (and so shouldn’t be complaining about contracts and their meaning, etc.), that nonetheless doesn’t mean that most of us avoid having opinions about those contracts, and relatedly how we perceive the players under them.
Maybe a more concrete example is to look at Barry Zito’s contract and the resulting opinions of Giants fan vis a vis his performance.
Anyway, I guess this is mostly an ancillary point…
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Players get paid what the market will bear.
And I’m not sure he’s really treated like an Ace – just an important part of the starting rotation.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Z is more than an important part, but
not consistant enough to be the ace. Too many bad games. However, when the man is on he’s as good as there is.
Harden is sort of the same, when he’s not injured there are few better. Because of their issues, i view neither is an ace.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I think you and many other Cubs fans...
…are hung up on this idea of an “Ace.” Carlos Zambrano isn’t really an Ace – I’d say he’s more a high No. 2. Bu that’s OK – true Aces are a very rare breed, and he’s still a really good pitcher. With a temper.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
and he is who he is
you aren’t going to get his intensity without also getting his temper. That’s just the way it is.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
What's frustrating is that he could be an Ace.
And what’s further frustrating is that everytime you think he’s figured it out, he loses it after 4-5 games.
Derrek Lee is good.
And I disagree that he shouldn't be one
It’s alarming, the way people have expected the guy with the most raw talent on the staff as “not really an ace.”
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Yeah, he could be.
But only if he became a completely different person. And that’s pretty unlikely to happen.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I believe people can learn to control and harness their emotions.
For Z to learn this, he’ll have to be motivated to do this and he hasn’t been motivated to do this. I for one do not buy for an instant that he has to be intense or emotional to pitch well.
Derrek Lee is good.
He said a lot of right things after the Barrett incident.
And Carlos restrained himself with the ump to a degree – until he thought the ump bumped him and that’s when he exploded, no doubt thinking that they were doing it to the Cubs again. That’s why he made the “No you’re out of here” stuff.
Re-watching it, Carlos looked to me to be trying to avoid contact; his posture suggests that to me.
Derrek Lee is good.
the ump
was very aggressive.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know.
That was my first reaction when I saw the replay the first time. I thought this is retaliation for the Lilly stuff if the umps believe Lilly lied.
I think I was probably overreacting. I’d really like to hear what Lou says about it.
Derrek Lee is good.
I must have somehow missed the whole Lilly thing...
Lied about what?
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
When Marshall was pitching? (I missed part of the game so I guess I didn’t hear that part…)
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
He was
Lilly apparently stormed out the dugout and told the umpire he wasn’t very good at his job.
They didn’t show it on TV. But L&B said Lilly was no longer in the dugout.
Its been a strange couple of days.
Right, but then it went a step farther.
The ump in question said Lilly lied to the press about what had really happened. I can’t remember where I read it….
Sean Marshall is a good starter.
It was Dempster's start in the first game of the Pittsburgh series.
Lilly charged out of the dugout and yelled at the home plate ump for what he thought were bad ball/strike calls.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
JUST WONDERING....
Wasn’t LOU standing next to Lilly ??? What was LOU’s take on the thing ?? Something does not sound right to me ….The next thing Lilly is tossed …..And the press ran to Lilly first ,,,,
Maybe typical, everyday people can...
…but I think it’s easier said than done with athletes playing a very frustrating game in front of 40,000 people. And given how many games this team has lost lately, I’m almost glad to see someone lose their cool a bit. Carlos can mellow out when he retires from baseball. For now, I’ll take the passionate outbursts with the desire to win.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by daver on May 27, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's a good point.
Is still think, whoever you are, you have to learn to control yourself in teh environment you are in.
Derrek Lee is good.
The issue that I have is, he is deferred to as an ace
The rotation is “his house” . . . he hasn’t earned that.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I would ask
exactly what that means. Because I don’t really know.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
He is coddled
Piniella’s vague comments when awarding opening day to Zambrano is an example of it. It sounded like they did it because they knew Dempster would respond more like an adult to not getting the nod.
He hasn’t earned that deferential treatment because of his antics. I really thought that he was growing up this year — one example in particular is his response to Soto’s misplay in the game that he got hurt. Rather than pitching a fit, he got on the mound and retired the next hitter. There needs to be more of that from him.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought he did very well today. He wasn’t 100% on his game, and he went out there inning after inning and made his pitches. It was the 7th inning, he was at 110 pitches, he knew he wasn’t going to be out there for much longer, and he thought he’d made the play.
I don’t see him as being coddled. And IIRC, he DIDN’T open at Wrigley this year.
I want him to get the job done, just like you. I just don’t see what happened today as an impediment to that.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Full disclosure, I was asleep when the incident occured, since I'm in China
So I didn’t see the game. If he pitched well without his best, that’s a good sign.
He got the start in game 1 of the season — that’s what the “ace” gets. Teams don’t shuffle their rotations to give #1 the home opener, too.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
ok
he didn’t have his best stuff, and he gutted it out. Didn’t give up with multiple men on base.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Totally agree.
Me too.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Before the umpbump (whoever's fault it was)
I was frustrated with Carlos in the 2nd inning. I was thinking then that Carlos’ antics were getting tiresome. I was warming to the idea that trading him could make a statement (of course the NTC is an issue) and help to define this club’s personality in a positive way.
Now Lou needs to speak to this issue of the umpiring. He needs to side with Carlos and Bradley, or he needs to shut it down and get the team focused. Trying to set emotions aside, I think the latter is probably the way to go here.
Derrek Lee is good.
It's a tricky thing
Lilly and even Bradley would probably get that Lou isn’t selling them out, but is rather trying to move on.
I’m not sure Zambrano will get that. He could mega-sulk.
The Red Sox traded Nomar, who was the face of their franchise and won a championship. There is nothing Zambrano has done this year that I’m not sure Wells and Marshall couldn’t do (not to mention whoever we’d get for him)
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You keep going back to your trade idea. I really doubt that the Cubs are going to
trade him. They have a lot of questions in their rotation now and Marshall and Wells don’t have the track record that would warrant getting rid of Zambrano.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
the Ump
initiated the contact. It’s TOTALLY on the ump. I expect the ump to be suspended for this.
The rest of it… it’s Z being Z. If you want the fire, you gotta take the heat.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
Expect all you want
It won’t happen. And there is still the small matter of the ball in the stands.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
didn't go into the stands.
not unless he can throw a LOT farther than I think he can.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Stop confusing a person full of hate with facts.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Stop hating on people
just because of their screenname. It’s ridiculous..we get that you don’t like Worf and BLou…how about you move on already.
"Why do you always point to the sky when Zambrano starts?" My girlfriend.
"You just wouldn't get it...it's a Cubs thing..." Me.
by cubs2k8isnxtyear on May 27, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I didn't see it but my opinion if Ronnie is upset about how Z is acting
(he being the biggest homer there is) It’s ok for me to be upset at it.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I haven't seen a response to that yet
Tricky for people to defend Zambrano and throw Ronnie under the bus
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Ronnie
was upset because he felt Z was going to get suspended. I’m not sure Ronnie saw the complete replay.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Pat said they did
Pat thought the Pirate was safe at second look. I can only take their word for it
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh come on
The radio broadcasters don’t see the replays???
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
your right about this
Pat and Ron often talk about watching the replays.
If the Cubs were an international soccer team they'd be called Scotland.
When Ron made the comment
I’m not sure he’d had a chance to see all of the replay.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Hate
The absolute hate of Lee and Zambrano here is getting ridiculous and is exactly why you can’t blame players who hate or feel ambivalent about the fans.
There are people in this thread that have made it clear they don’t root for Zambrano to win games. They hate him more than they like the Cubs.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
Show me where I'd rooted for Zambrano to fail
I want him gone, but as long as he’s here, I want him to sack up, shut up and pitch.
And by the way, I’m a Lee defender.
I’m sure you think it’s more efficient for you to lump me in with BLou, but it’s not accurate.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Sorry with all the hate you spew it’s obvious you want him to fail.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Someone get this man a thesaurus
His needle is stuck on the word “hate”
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You’re stuck on your hate of Zambrano.
your hate spewing which has gone beyond criticism of his play is getting riduclous.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Ahem, woman.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I don't hate Zambrano at all.
I’ve been a big fan of his and still am in many ways. But today’s stuff is on top of him not being ready to hit last night. Maybe how I’m feeling now will pass, but I think there’s reason to consider some of what’s being said.
Derrek Lee is good.
Exactly my thought
It’s one thing to cheer for your team, but we can’t close our eyes and say anyone (Z or anyone else) can behave like that and it’s ok b/c they are a Cub. I am blindly loyal to the Cubs, but I don’t have to be when someone makes a mistake.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Slow down there
It’s safe to say people don’t like the way he loses his temper on a semi-regular basis. This is the guy, after all, rightly or wrongly, who punched out his catcher on national TV. As he ages, we’d like to see him mature. It just isn’t happening.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Ted Lilly punched his manager when he was in Toronto.
In the 07 playoffs Lilly totally lost it on the mound and threw his glove down. He totally lost his cool in a playoff game. Two days ago Lilly charged out of the dugout after an umpire when he wasn’t even in the game. Why aren’t people criticizing Lilly and saying he needs to mature and grow up? He has exhibited rash and irrational behavior many times and yet nobody calls him crazy, out of control, or immature. It’s funny how people characterize certain players.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Whether or not Lilly does or does not need to grow up...
(And actually whether or not anyone is saying one way or the other)…has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not Z needs to grow up.
Unless you’re suggesting that Z’s critics have ulterior motivations for their complaints….?
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm saying Z gets criticism for actions that are similar to other pitchers that don't receive that criticism.
I don’t know what anyone’s motivation for calling Zambrano an idiot might be, other than they themselves have questionable judgment. If you don’t see a double standard in the name calling and criticism that Zambrano gets then you haven’t been paying attention. Lilly doesn’t get called immature and irrational or idiotic when he has committed acts that would warrant it. I don’t know why Lilly gets a pass and Z doesn’t. I’m just asking the question and pointing out the hypocrisy.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Right...
but my point is that even if I grant your point that Lilly should also have been called out…
…it doesn’t impact whether or not Z deserves to be criticized. In other words, for this conversation Lilly is irrelevent.
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not irrelevent because I'm trying to give context to the discussion.
I’m saying if we aren’t going to call others idiots and crazy then we shouldn’t do the same to Z. Do you not get that I’m trying to say he deserves the same respect as Lilly or Dempster or anyone else on this staff?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
At the risk of going in circles...
what I’m saying is that I agree: he should get the same treatment as Lilly and Dempster.
But…it sounds to me as if you’re saying that by giving them the same treatment, we therefore shouldn’t criticize Zambrano because we wrongly didn’t criticize the others. What I’m saying is that we SHOULD criticize Zambrano because his actions warrented it. And if we start a different thread about Lilly/Dempster, then we can criticize them there. But their misbehavior has no relevence to judging Z’s actions.
Failing to correctly criticize one person doesn’t mean that we obligated to fail to correctly criticize everyone else as well.
(In logic terms, your argument about Lilly/Dempster are non-sequitors.)
Anyway, there’s isn’t much point in my belaboring the argument. But I’m happy to read your reply should you choose to write one. :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
My comment was precipitated by someone saying Z needs to mature.
Saying a player “needs to mature,” is not really adding insight to the behavior or the incident. I’m also tired of hearing this generalization about Zambrano when we don’t hear it about other players when they exhibit similar behaviors. You may not agree with me that Zambrano is not accorded the same respect as Lilly or Dempster but I’ve offered examples.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions
To shift away from my previous post a bit...
Unless I’m not understanding, I don’t see anywhere in your post where you actually take a stance on Z’s maturity level.
While I understand that you don’t feel it’s pertinent, I’m just curious:
Do you feel that Zambrano is immature?
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Since I don't know him personally, I'm in no position to judge.
I believe he has exhibited behavior that’s inappropriate but that doesn’t mean he’s immature, an idiot or stupid, like some here have claimed. I do believe people can have emotional outbursts and lose their temper and it doesn’t automatically mean they lack maturity. I will say that one sign of maturity is admitting your faults and mistakes and apologizing for them. I have seen Z demonstrate remorse for his actions when he loses his cool. In the past he has even talked about discussing it with his little girl and it’s not the example he wants to set. He’s aware that he loses his temper and it’s not the right thing to do. I also believe he wouldn’t have lost it the way he did had the umpire not initiated contact with him. He was actually walking away and the umpire walked toward him and leaned into him. I believe MLB should give the umpire the same suspension as Z for instigating and inflaming the situation.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 28, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Here is...
… the complete story on the Gibbons/Lilly incident. It was generally acknowledged at the time that Gibbons was at fault.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So, it's okay for a guy to punch his manager? You can't be serious.
Barrett may have been at fault when Z punched him but it still isn’t right. Punching someone’s boss or co-worker is just never acceptable. I just wonder why Lilly doesn’t get the same kind of heat for his actions. Had Zambrano charged onto the field and confronted the umpire on his day off people would be roasting him. The incidents this week prove my point. Lilly and Dempster haven’t been called, idiots, immature, and selfish. Evidently you endorse this name calling because you leave up posts that call players idiots. It’s really ridiculous. If people want to criticize the actions of a player fine but this kind of name calling is absurd. It’s petty and makes the site look juvenile. I thought people weren’t supposed to be posting things they wouldn’t say to someone’s face. I guess that only applies under special circumstances.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions
to use your own words...
you can’t be serious. that entire article defended the position of no punches being thrown at all. did you actually read the thing?
It's been well known that Lilly did in fact throw a punch at his manager.
Not only that we’ve seen emotional outbursts from him here in Chicago. Did you forget the 07 playoffs when he totally lost it and threw his glove down on the mound? He went after an ump on his day off. The dude has some issues but nobody calls him an idiot or crazy. Wonder why?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
in case you didn't read the article the whole incident happened because Lilly wouldn't give the manager the ball when he came out to the mound.
That’s not exactly the act of a guy that is composed and without fault. If you read the article you will also notice that witnesses saw the manager with a bloody nose. Please, Lilly has a history of emotional outbursts and losing his cool on the mound and off apparently.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
You've been saying all year that Z is immature
As well as last year. And probably the year before. May I suggest that you just let it go.
His behavior is not going to change, much like yours.
But Blou and Worf are the moral standards we should all strive to be...
…right?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
The ump definitely instigated contact
I don’t really think that can be disputed.
But the point is not the possible impending suspension, regardless of who instigated the umpire – player contact.
The point is that Zambrano’s behavior is embarrassing and inexcusable for a human being, let alone a professional baseball player.
The man is going to be turing 28 in a couple of days, yet I’ve met 12 year olds with better composure and professionalism.
I tend to agree that he has a tendency to make himself bigger than the team. I don’t know that I’d go so far as compare him to Sosa, but I can’t denounce such a comparison either. It’s also fair to note that occasionally it can benefit the team for a player to take the focus upon himself. But clearly there are no calculations involved with Zamrbano’s explosions.
He has great stuff, and he has power from both sides of the plate. But his immature attitude will continue to hold him back from ever being a legit Cy Young contender, and will thus prove to always disappoint. Despite his personality, he still makes for a great #2 starting pitcher.
by WittyUserName on May 27, 2009 4:25 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
I think that a trade of Z
may be good for Z, too. His lack of maturity is holding him back. Why doesn’t it frustrate Z?
Derrek Lee is good.
But what ace are we going to get in return? Not gonna happen.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
That would be blockbuster
But I would rather add that unnamed ace rather than exchanging.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Peavy.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I totally distance myself from your comment
and from any pictures you may or may not post.
Derrek Lee is good.
I laughed at the second clause of your statement.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
But how would trading him improve his maturity?
He is who he is. That’s not going to change in San Diego or New York or anywhere else.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Once he's traded
His immaturity is someone else’s problem
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
dood
he’s not going to get traded. Cmon.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, it's really hard to picture a feasible trade.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Do you dare suggest a scenario?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Ah, I see what you're driving at.
Well, we’d need to replace a key part of our rotation. So who would you ask for? Floyd? Danks?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Depends, is it 2008 or 2009?
In 2009, neither comes close to replacing Z.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Gordon Beckham?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Oh, so this is ultimately headed toward Peavy?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I will have no part in promoting rumors about that man.
But let’s say a three-way trade could be worked out where the Cubs replaced one ace with another. Would it help the team? Would it change the Cubs’ team character in a positive way? I think that question is worth considering and I don’t think I have the answer.
Derrek Lee is good.
Well, from a purely practical perspective, I wouldn't be opposed to that.
Still seems unlikely, though. And, yeah, it’s hard to say just how it would affect the team’s character or, ahem, chemistry.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Yeah, really.
It would probably just create a lot of awkwardness.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Like your college hookup...
… that started showing up in the dorm room across the hall after you blew her off one night.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
More like
In the bed next to yours.
Or would that be Milwaukee.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
Really - it's all about two things -
1) Do the Cubs believe Z is worth it?
2) Could they convince him to waive his NTC?
I think Ozzie could be good for Z.
Derrek Lee is good.
That would be a bold move...
…and I’m not sure Hendry has it in him.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Well, Z for Peavy.
One really good pitcher for another. Less hassles like the disciplinary hearings that are sure to arise from this incident.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
He's got to want to be traded
He’s a hothead. If he doesn’t feel the love and protection over this, he’s going to simmer.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
TWSS
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
It's already complicated, baby.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
That is going over the edge
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Z has never had to respond
to his team saying, “We think we’d be better without you.” He hasn’t had to interact with a different organization that may respond more strictly to him.
Derrek Lee is good.
Would the Cubs really say that too him, though?
And if Z went to another organization that tried to control him, wouldn’t he just rebel more?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Again... that wouldn't be our problem
In fact, if he stays in the NL, we’d WANT him to stay immature and rebellious and damage some other team
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
There's no telling how Carlos would respond.
Some people are humbled by these things; others are outraged. Some of the things that Carlos has said, I think it’s possible he could be humbled.
Derrek Lee is good.
why the hell
would the cubs say that to him? It’s not TRUE!
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, that's the question now isn't it.
And I don’t presume that I know the answer. Is all this anger and hostility towards the umpires motivating the Cubs or distracting them?
Derrek Lee is good.
Well, they have won two in a row now...
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
2 arguements with the umps
and 2 wins, let’s unleash fonty on them tomorrow.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Kneecap them with his helmet.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I don't know
but this team needs Carlos Zambrano.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Probing my point. But who cares about it hurting the team you just want to get rid of a player you don’t like,
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
He may be an idiot..
But he’s our idiot. This is, like it or not, a part of what makes this team click.
It was hilarious listening to Lou try to keep a straight face talking about it afterwards, saying.. “Jeez, I’m the only calm one around here.”
I guarantee this is a great problem to have.
by DisCUBbobulated on May 27, 2009 4:26 PM CDT reply actions
I was a cheerleader for Zambrano for years but, lately you can
…count me in with the ones who have gotten completely sick of his act. And is it me or has he actually gotten worse over the last few years. Some people mature as they grow older but it appears Carlos is stuck in perpetual childhood. Scratch that. I actually know tons of kids who are much more mature than Z.
I honestly think he could use professional help-too bad that teams nowadays don’t have the leverage to make a guy go to a sports psychologist.
So you say the same for Lou?
I’m not sure why people give Lou a pass, but not Zambrano.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
i don't see Lou having meltdowns like Zamrano
maybe back in the day he and Z weren’t that different but Lou has definitely calmed down in his dotage.
by bluekoolaide on May 27, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Pass for Lou?
Lou has an entirely different role with the team.
It’s not accurate to compare their status.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
It would be accurate to compare Lilly and Dempster's actions though and nobody gave them this kind of grief.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
They certainly deserve it.
Their behavior, especially Lilly’s, was completely apprehensible.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
you mean
“reprehensible”.
And no, they don’t.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Proof that.......
………drinking at lunch is not always a good thing.
Yes, reprehensible is the proper word choice.
From what I saw of Dempster’s actions, they were fairly sedate, but Lilly leaving the dugout is entirely inappropriate. On what basis did he think he should have been on the field? That’s wrong 100% of the time.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
he got tossed out of the dugout
in a game he wasn’t even playing in. You BET he gets to argue his point.
Somewhere, we have to stop thinking that the umps are god. they’re not. They make mistakes, and SOMEONE has to take them for account.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
See previous remarks............
………..regarding Lou’s role. That’s on him.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
perhaps.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Again
Again this thread is exactly why players hate the fans.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
Aw jeez.....
….listen to yourself, will you? Players hate the fans? How many of the players are thrilled with Zambrano right about now?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
by BeerCub on May 27, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hate is the only thing you know.
And for your information you obviously only come here to spew hate towards players as anyone who follows this blog except for just posting hate would know I am female.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
OK, so you're female
My apologies. I’ll make the proper pronoun references from now on.
That doesn’t change the fact that you’re mistaken about me and you’re lumping me in with people you’re listening to on the radio.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You sound exactly like them that’s the point.
If this was the first time you’ve gone into a diatribe against him it would be different.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
No, it's not the first time
I’ve long found him to be tiresome and not worth the trouble.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
There are others...........
………who agree with this assessment.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
No the amount of personal attacks on players and the ridiculous things fans say is why players would have every reason to hate the fans.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Not the players I know
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Some players do and I don’t blame the ones that do.
I lost all respect for Chicago fans when Grossman was booed at the end of the NFC Championship game in 07.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
what does Grossman have to do with the Cubs
Just b/c one is a fan of one Chicago team, doesn’t mean we are fans of all Chicago teams.
That is apple and oranges.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Please stop throwing incomplete analogies?
Just like Grossman?
Sorry. Couldn’t resist.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Agreed.
Seems like all the ones I’ve met in the past genuinely like us.
Look, people will like ‘em, and people won’t. That’s just how it’s gonna be. Pros could care less because they have just as many that like them as they do who don’t like them. If you can’t handle that, that’s your own problem and you obviously don’t understand the politics behind sports.
Including Zambrano who spends 15 hours on planes in the middle of winter to come to the convention.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
That really helps raise.............
……….the “W” flag at Wrigley.
Geez………
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
today
they raise a W at Wrigley.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
But because Z attends the Cubs Convention?
I think not.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
no
because Z pitched a great game.
The fans LOVE him, in part, because he attends the Cubs Convention.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think he got the win..........
……….his efforts notwithstanding.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
I think he did.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Marmol
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
you misunderstand
I believe Z DESERVES the win. I know that by the rules, Marmol gets the win, but that doesn’t change that I feel that Z did more to help win that game.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
true dat.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Apologies
I completely missed that. I thought you were unsure of the stat line. Sorry about that.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
no worries.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
According to you...........
…………just how many wins SHOULD Z have this year?
What a pity the rules of the game don’t support your end.
Can’t believe you have the gall to jump others on this post about opinions/views/etc.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
I feel
that Z did more to win that game than anyone else.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd bet
that several of them are.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Players hate fans? Maybe but they sure LOVE our money.
by bluekoolaide on May 27, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Just like politicians and voters.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
no,
happy with Z.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, I'm sorry.
Sorry some of them getting paid money every game that we’ll never get paid in our lifetimes can’t go out there and just play the game, but instead have to make asses of themselves and possibly miss games because of inexcusable behavior…
Please explain how any player's salary in comparison to what you make is relevant?
I don’t get why fans want to say that because a player gets paid more than I will ever see then ….(fill in generalization here.) Players are paid to do a job you can’t do and a job that very few humans are capable of doing. Their play generates millions of dollars in profits of which they rightly share. They are paid millions because they are capable of athletic feats you are not, it’s that simple. No more or no less. Salary is not relevant to this debate or many others for that matter.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Really???
Me thinking that his behavior was wrong… is the reason why players don’t like fans opinion. Now granted there is some Z hate here. But there are some of us, that are just frustrated at someone doing something we consider not apprioate.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Calling him an idiot and the like is personal attacks. That’s the difference between criticism and worse.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
but you are putting ALL CHICAGO SPORTS FANS
in same boat. How many of us are calling him names?
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 27, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
His behavior was certainly idiotic
And by extension if that makes him an idiot, so be it.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
There is a difference. It's like saying someone exhibited stupid behavior or calling
someone stupid. There is a big difference.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
When/if someone has the link to Lou's postgame press conference
please post it. I think how Lou responds is significant.
Derrek Lee is good.
I heard it on the radio..
He could barely keep from laughling. Why? I think because Lou knows that’s exactly what he would have done at the same age, but that it’s probably not the best choice. He also said the Z’s gotta be smarter about that stuff and got back out and pitch the rest of the inning.
by DisCUBbobulated on May 27, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting. WGN cut out.
And gameday audio wouldn’t let me access. Was he asked what he thinks about the umpiring?
Derrek Lee is good.
He said he thought it was a really close play at home.
Then paused for awhile, trying to pick the right words, chuckled again, and finally said that him an Carlos were going to have a long talk tomorrow. Oh boy, to be a fly on that wall eh? How do you discipline someone when you really don’t think they did anything wrong and you know they know that?
by DisCUBbobulated on May 27, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Disagree.
Z will say all the right things, apologize to his team and the umpire. He usually knows the right thing to do when it’s not in the heat of the moment.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
He won't say such things...........
………without being coached.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
What does it matter if he's coached or not?
I honestly do believe Z will regret this incident, especially if he gets suspended.
I understand what it feels like to overreact in the heat of the moment. Not saying it’s right, but I think when he has time to reflect on it he’ll realize it was silly.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Sincerely.....
…. I wonder if the opinions expressed here are generational. I could be wrong, but I wonder how the opinions break down, age-wise. Are the old farts fed up with him for th emost part, and are the younger ones willing to continue to cut him some slack?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Sounds like a poll in the making!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Speaking as an old fart - I have absolutely no problem with Big Z.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
what's the over/under on farts?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
cool a jacuzzi.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I love that expression after she rips it. Very familiar.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Now we have to define old fart I suppose
I’m 51.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Me too. We qualify.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Strange........
……..but I don’t get the feeling Carlos Zambrano has ever regretted a single thing he’s done on the field. Not today; not yesterday; not in the future.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Yeah, he laughed about the incident and promised he'd talked to Z.
I think Lou wishes Carlos wouldn’t do stuff like this but understands why he does.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by daver on May 27, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He make a joke about being the most calm and collected one on the team,
but said he would have to have a lengthy and serious talk with Z tomorrow because what happened isn’t okay.
I have to have grown tired of this act.
Every year it is something with “Z”. He is not an ace, he is a No. 1 1/2 starter. Walks to many, has more blow ups than a so call ace should have.
But to wait around for him to change, aint going to happen. “Z” is an overgrown child, time to put the act to bed “Z” After you get suspended for 5 games, and the Cubs have to jack up the rotation again.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
No. 1 1/2 starters are still pretty valuable.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
part of the problem
Is fans whine about the lack of fire and passion and then when a player blows up out of frustration (and he did go too far I am not doubting it) make hate filled nasty attacks on the net and on the radio.
If you tuned on the radio right now you’d think Z had gone out and shot up a school.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by puckishcubsfan on May 27, 2009 4:34 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
+38
this team NEEDS a vocal leader…sori has done his part and DLEE is a calming force…
Z isn’t a cancer…his passion is necessary, IMO
Everyone Calm Down
Neil Cotts has been demoted, Aaron Miles is gone for 15 days, and Fox is finally in a Cubs uniform. NO WORRIES FELLA’S
Blou remains an idiot
thanks for the insightful post. He got into a fight with an ump, big freakin’ deal. Yeah, the ball throw was stupid, but sometimes people do stupid things when they are pissed off. This does not make the organization look bad, give me a break. You make NIU look bad.
We won the freakin game, largely in part to the contribution of Zambrano. He didn’t get thrown out in the 1st or even 5th inning, but the 7th, when pitchers are usually taken out anyway. He was at 110 pitches and probably was going to be in there much longer anyway. He did not cost this team a win, but rather kept them in the game with a very good pitching performance.
My god, you are the one who needs to grow up BlueMike/MDBNIU/Blou.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
by DTJchris on May 27, 2009 4:48 PM CDT reply actions 10 recs
wonderful response
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
I find it sad that this...
warrented a “greening”, especially with that kind of subject line.
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Yeah...
Because calling each other idiots makes for real incisive commentary, worthy of recognition.
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
It amazes me that people come to this guys side.
Sorry if the guy comes on here and talks the way he does, he deserves everything he gets. He’d never talk like he does on here to people on the street.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Agreed. And I'm recommending you for this.
This is why, for the umpteenth time, SBN needs to implement something akin to Digg’s +1/-1 system. The value of the recommendation is really a dichotomous, all-or-nothing system if I cannot de-recommend a post. I’ve emailed SBN two or three times, but I don’t think there’s much they plan on (or can) do about it at this point.
I like DTJchris, and I think BLou does bring interesting analysis to the table, but there’s no need for the attack. I think the commentary is fine, but I don’t think the personal attack is warranted. Just because everyone like to bitch about Mike doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to let that pass—and not from a troll or other person. It should be fair for everyone.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 27, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
I’ll sign your petition on de-recommendations :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm also rec'ing this
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
BlueMike
reaps what he sows.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure, but he doesn't attack people unless provoked, at least that's my viewpoint.
You’re here more than I, but I’m here quite a bit. He’s blunt and overtly forceful, but not attacking someone. He just doesn’t turn my crank like he does yours. Ignore him if you don’t like him drew, com’on.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 27, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Another rec
FWIW Drew, you really do seem to have a Brewer-fan sized chip on your shoulder when it comes to him.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Who provoked him to title his post "Zambrano remains an idiot?" That seems like name calling to me.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
So then Carlos should feel free to respond
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Carlos had some thumb problems a few years back...
…from chatting online in the off-season, if I remember correctly.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yeah, he gave up the internet for the team. Heh. See, he's not so selfish after all.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point . . . carry on
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
You fail to address the point that it's name calling even when directed at a player.
There are adults here that get tired of this kind of childish behavior.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't feel the need to address it
There are adults here that are tired of a handful of people blasting everything that a different handful of people have to say for no other reason than their user names.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Anyway, I'm bored with this thead by now.
What do you do in China, if I may ask? I thought you visited there…thus the UW+China moniker. I must be wrong!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I used to do project management / business development
But I don’t have that job anymore….I’m here on vacation, using up miles and extra vacation days (kind of a floating furlough, if you will).
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm responding to your earlier comment about...
…BLou only responding when provoked. That’s simply NOT true. Read the way he responded to the second comment (my comment) on this post. Absolutely ridiculous.
Frankly, I’d much rather come on here and only talk about sports. I hate that a fair amount of time is spent on guys like Worf and Blou. But when they command so much attention, something’s got to be said.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I really can't answer to that as it makes no difference to me as I disagree with content.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 27, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Which is fair
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Blou gets under my skin
I used the title of his post, stuck his name to it, and than used basically the same references BLou makes towards Z and used that in my response.
If some random poster comes on here and does the exact same thing, we basically ignore the thread and move on with our lives. I leave those posters alone, though some people go off on them. BLou is different, he attempts to irritate people, why do you think he’s changed his name so much? But BLou/BlueMike/MDBNIU constantly posts completely outlandish statements just to get under people’s skin… IMHO, so it irritates me, I’ll admit it.
I also didn’t mean for there to be a “green” comment controversy surrounding my post, lol
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Oh, I know.
I was speaking more to the general attitude that a few have around here, not necessarily you.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 28, 2009 6:04 AM CDT up reply actions
no
he attacks at random. And I’ll challenge anyone to look at this entire post and see where I’ve gone beyond mild snark in responding to him. I didn’t call him an idiot above.
He’s offensive, sexist, racist and libelous. You can’t ignore that away.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Seeing...
Zambrano give the ump the ejection sign was one of the funniest things I’ve seen in awhile! Love it!
I couldn’t tell… does anyone know exactly what Z said when he got in the ump’s face prior to “tossing him?”
There was a bump
either instigated by the Ump or Z, its up in the air. Don’t think it was anything he said.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
No, I'm talking about after he got tossed.
Just prior to Z throwing the ump out, he got in his face and said something. I’m curious what it was.
Z said in the post game interview that he said no "bad words"
If the Cubs were an international soccer team they'd be called Scotland.
Z was also contrite in the postgame interview.
None of this was an act – he reacted, lost his cool, and felt bad about it afterward. In other words, he’s a flawed human being like all of us.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by daver on May 27, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's funny
how we perceive things differently . . . I didn’t think he sounded contrite at all, but that he did sound measured, laying the groundwork for his appeal of the coming suspension.
But he's not an Ace!
But he’s not an ace!
But he’s not an ace!
Blah. blah, blah……….
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
that was great
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
It was kind of like Pacino in "Absence of Malice". "You're out of order!"
“No, You’re out of order!”, “This whole courtroom is out of order!”
Umpire:“You’re out of the game!”
Big Z:“No, You’re out of the the game!”
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I wonder
I wonder who the fans and media are going to compare him to this time.
In 07 they compared his blow up to Michael Vick.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
Did anyone else
think of that scene in O Brother Where Art Though when George “Baby Face” Nelson starts shooting the cows when Zambrano beat the Gatorade machine?
“Oh George, not the livestock”… “Oh Z, not the Gatorade again”
by AGC on May 27, 2009 4:55 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of Z's expertise at gatorade cooler-bashing
This is pretty good.
by DisCUBbobulated on May 27, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Most of the comments here
are as silly and immature as Zambrano, but that made me laugh.
well played.
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on May 27, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
There was nothing ambiguous about the bump
The umpire subtly provoked action which is the opposite of what they are instructed to do and Z took the bait and instigated aggressive contact. To be honest, the whole Z maturity thing is focused in the wrong area – I find the tirades better than the walking zombie Dusty Baker administration. The maturity that everyone should be talking about is Z’s lack of growth as a pitcher. His ERA has been about 4 for three straight years and he still can’t get into the 7th inning without a pitch count in the stratosphere.
Zambrano is a strikeout pitcher....hight pitch counts in the 7th innings are typical.
Would you prefer he try and be a finesse pitcher and always give us at least 8 innings of worse pitching?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the most ridiculous post I've ever seen
funny, but ridiculous
by BeltwayCubsFan on May 27, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
You have obviously not followed my posting on BCCB very much.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
you've redeemed yourself
with your humor. Listen, I get what you are saying but your point is kind of the one I’m trying to make. A maturing pitcher learns how to get batters out more efficiently. His ERA the past several years is 4, not 2. If Roy Halladay really wanted to be a strikeout machine he probably could be – but he throws 8-9 innings a game.
by BeltwayCubsFan on May 27, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Roy Halladay is redheaded. Lest we forget.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
can he ride
a unicorn?
Are we really complaining about how Z gets batters out now?
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions
But
he’s got great movement on his p[itches and he always tries to nibble instead of trusting his stuff in the zone. And if he pitches from behind the hitters can sit on certain pitches. Pitching ahead in the count is very valuable. Z tends to nibble, that is why he has high pitch counts.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Hate the sin, not the sinner
I hate it when Zambrano blows up. I think it’s childish and embarrassing to see a grown man act that way. I desperately want him to grow up. But I also know that he loves the team, loves the city and loves the fans. So I take the bad with the good.
He gives us his all, and sometimes he gives too much. So you can blame him for rash decisions, for taking unnecessary risks. But please stop calling him selfish. Proud? Yes. Immature? Often. But he never holds back.
Either way, he’s here. He’s got the Hendry NTC, and I don’t see him waiving it. So you can talk about getting rid of him all you like, or you can accept that he’s ours for the foreseeable future.
You can lament his antics, and I often do, but you’re really just beating a dead Gatorade machine when you do.
by redward on May 27, 2009 5:07 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Having seen the video...
…I just don’t think Z’s outburst was that big of a deal. Well, aside from the fact that, in today’s hypersensitive MLB environment, will probably face some sort of disciplinary action – or at least a lengthy battle. But no punches were thrown. No one swung a bat at anyone’s head. No one got hurt. It was more theatrics than anything else. Seems to me there was a time when stuff like this would happen in ballgames all the time and no one freaked out about it.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
That was because back then the people in charge of baseball were men with beards and chest hair.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
When men were men...
… and women were men.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
And the sheep were nervous.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Not a big deal at all.
He thought the guy was out, so he let the ump have it. I WANT to see that out of players when they feel a call was blown.
And yeah, that ump definitely leaned into Zambrano. Z just backed him off. I know it’s illegal to touch the ump, but the f’ing ump shouldn’t be allowed to instigate!
Awesome point
If no one believes it, read the book Cobb. Ty Cobb was one of the best players ever, but was also mentally unstable. The things he did on and off the field make Zambrano look like an angel (like running into the stands and pummeling a heckler that was in a wheelchair).
When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch. -Ty Cobb
My big regret
is that Z doesn’t get the win for this game. He certainly deserves it.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
Yep, and I believe it would be his 100th as a Cub.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
So......
Blou has disappeared after serving as the arsonist for the fire that is this thread.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
the first third was fire
the rest is good debate.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
It's entirely possible that he was warned off or worse due to language
This isn’t Pittsburgh. You can’t talk to people like that here.
rofl
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
So much for this
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
For the record......Zambrano produces pretty close to how an ace should.
He is a career ERA+ 127, meaning his ERA is 27% better than the average pitcher during his career. And Zambrano’s WAR, in his 8 full seasons, has ranged between 2.8 and 4.9. Pretty good.
By comparison, someone like Roy Oswalt, whom entered the league at almost exactly the same time as Zambrano (and has stuck with the same club, too), is a certifiable ace. His career ERA+ is 137, and his WAR has ranged between 2.7 and 6.6.
For those that are bitching about Zambrano being overpaid ($17.75M), a peer like Oswalt ($14M) is a comparable measure of Carlos’ performance, in my opinion. Carlos appears to be overpaid a bit, but IIRC, 2008 was a big off-season spending season, and we wanted to keep our guy. If Zambrano isn’t a #1A, he’s a #1B.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 27, 2009 5:14 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
now that is a very interesting and debatable statement
His ERA has basically gone up every year since 2004 (it was basically the same in ‘07/’08), and it has hovered around 4 since 2007. Now that ERA may qualify as ace material in the AL, but I don’t believe it does in the NL
by BeltwayCubsFan on May 27, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Feel free to find me another comparable peer.
Perhaps a #2 with comparable statistics would suit you? This took me 10 minutes, I think it’s pretty damn telling.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Full disclosure...
…Oswalt has the 19th highest career ERA+ of any pitcher, ever, so maybe I didn’t pick the BEST comparable peer. That’s what 10 minutes of research does to ya.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
His numbers are better than Carpenters
over their careers IIRC, and if not better, very close.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
But an Ace should be loyal, kind, trustworthy, walk old ladies across the street
and rescue cats from trees.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Or perhaps.............
………an ace acts like an adult and a professional when seeing to his tasks.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
And everyone should adhere to your standards? Baseball players are individuals with warts just like everyone
else. You take the good with the bad. While you would prefer that he wouldn’t exhibit the kind of behavioh he did today, I don’t think it detracts one iota from his ability to pitch. In fact I think it enhances it.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Well then what are Zambrano's standards.........
………assuming he has any?
They certainly lack professionalism and I fail to see how they improve his performance on the field (kinda hard to do from the locker room – or the DL).
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
You really don't know if he would be as efective if he didn't have the fire he has. People
assume that if he would just behave, he would be a much better pitcher. You really don’t know that. It would make you feel better, but I doubt it if it would improve his performance. As far as professionalism is concerned, they are playing a boy’s game. I really fail to see the need to get worked up over the actions of one individual. It may detract from what people think of him, but in the final analysis, I say he is who he is.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Playing a boy's game............
……..in front of boys (and girls) and being paid handsomely to perform.
But if he feels the need to “perform” as he did today, perhaps he should run over to the local theater troop. There’s no place for this (repeated) garbage in the game.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Opinions vary.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
his tasks?
he kept us in the game. Of course, I’m sure there are those who think that he shouldn’t be covering the plate anyway, seeing as how it’s not directly related to him pitching…
He accomplished his tasks. He was going to face one more batter, maybe two at the most. He DID his job.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
And Z got the "W" in your book.
Doubleday rolls in his grave every time you type.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
you need
to get a better attitude.
Z did what he was supposed to do in the game. He did his job. It was a quality start and then some.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
My attitude will improve...........
……….once I get the same mind-numbing prescription that you and Carlos have.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Why would a Civil War General care about baseball?
If you want to make a better reference, try Alexander Cartwright.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
True or otherwise.............
………….Doubleday’s name is synonymous with the baseball.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
And again -- why would he care?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 28, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
You must understand............
………..else why did you suggest “a better reference”?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Remember this, Cubs fans...
…someday Carlos Zambrano will be gone and then we’ll really know how we truly feel about him. I’m pretty sure that I, for one, will miss him.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
we all love Z
I think we do, but I do think we suffer from a little bit of romanticism with his actual stats much like with Kerry Wood. We think of the 18 strikeout guy and 5 years later you look at his career and realize he was basically a 12 win pitcher. Z obviously outdid that but his ERA has not been ‘ace’ material the past few years
by BeltwayCubsFan on May 27, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
err, 20 strikeouts
not sure why i said 18
by BeltwayCubsFan on May 27, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't really consider him an Ace, not sure I ever really have.
He’s still a good pitcher and fun to watch play the game.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Who cares what he's called
just win some games.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I'll hold some memories fondly..........
………but miss him?
Err, no.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Not to be a complete dummy
but with ERA+ is higher better or worse?
Thats not a stat I’m really familiar with.
The higher, the better.
100 = league average. So anything above that is better than average.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Sorry, HBCG...
…it’s a weighed ERA value that is much, much easier to interpret than just the ‘ol ERA. Just like an IQ test, 100 is the average—take Joe Schmoe, and he’s a career 100. Anybody 5 points higher, he’s 5% better than Joe Schmoe (in this statistic, at least), and 95 would be 5% worse. It’s my favorite quick-n-dirty pitching statistic. I don’t understand pitching stats as well as I do hitting (yet), but I like it thus far. The big problem comes into play when you compare pitchers across different eras or generations, but I’m not doing that here.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Rec'd...
… literally. Wonderful breakdown. Thank you.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I couldn't pass up the irony here
[BLou/BlueMike/xxxNIU] is an immature jackass. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that he is never going to grow up. While he is a [provactive member of BCB], he also is [pompous and bombastic]. His latest antics today [in his fanpost] are inexcusable and embarassing for the [blog]. Grow up [BLou/BlueMike/xxxNIU] and stop being a self-absorbed jackass. Your act has gotten very, very tired. If I were [Al Yellon] I’d grab you by the neck and scream until my voice was hoarse.
"This is an environment of welcoming, and you should just get the hell outta here." --Michael Scott
by Reddevil on May 27, 2009 5:21 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You forgot.....
… he can go pound sand blah blah blah……
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I'm glad I'm not the only one
who read it that way.
by chitownhawkeye on May 27, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Unbelievable...
Zambrano is facing a 7-10 game suspension and he’s being painted as the guy who inspired his team. So when the Cubs feel the affect of losing their workhorse for a start or two, what will be the response then?
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
Life goes on.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking from the perspective of liking the fire
and like Bradley’s thing, I just wish they kept their distance not to lose that start.
And besides Wells came out of nowhere to help the team when Z went down with injury, teams can overcome adversity.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
It's time for you to grow up too BLou....and accept Z for who he is. A psycho that can dominate a baseball game from the pitchers mound.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Zambrano has put his team at a disadvantage for one and maybe two starts
His antics were inexcusable. He can holler and scream at the ump and get ejected. I have no problem with that. But you DON’T bump an ump when you know damned well from the recent Milton Bradley Affair that it will result in a suspension.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
The ump stepped into Z.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Here we go again
It doesn’t matter how the contact happens. It matters that there was contact. Zambrano is going to be suspended and suspended big time.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
Of course it matters. What if the umpire took his mask off and hit the player in the head with it. Would
the player be suspended? Of curse not. It always matters who initiated the contact. The league may say that after the contact that Z extended his arm and therefore made contact, but it does matter who initiated it.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 27, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
bull
neither umpire nor player are supposed to initiate contact. If the ump does it, that’s ON THE UMP. The umpires are not kings! They are not popes! They’re not the empire of china!
If they make mistakes, THEY should pay the price, not the player who happens to be on the other end of it. This ump DELIBERATELY stepped into Z, and Z moved BACK.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I posted before the rules
and the ump is to WALK AWAY not walk towards the player.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
We'll put you in......
…… your temper seems to be as bad as his is, but since you’re giving lectures on how to handle it we presume you can harness it all and throw two no hittters.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
My temper and immaturity doesn't compromise the Cubs !!!
Zambrano bumping an umpire when he knows it will result in a suspension does !!!
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
So no pitch for you?
It’d be the fulfillment of a dream…….
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Erm, go Randy Wells...?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Effect, not affect.
Effect = result, noun
Affect = verb, action.
Zambrano affected this game with his BADASS pitching.
The effect of Zambrano’s actions may result in a suspension.
Class dismissed.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
well done
as an English Major (squared), I salute you.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
As i said before...
… lets talk about how many starts he misses (and how many of those result win losses) when we KNOW.
There was something intangibly inspiring by what he did. This team went from lifeless to playing with fire. The Iowa call-ups helped, no doubt, and you can’t put a stat on what Z’s fireworks did for the team… but i’ll take a one game suspension (that’s a missed Z start, NOT a loss… a loss isn’t assured, which should go without saying but for some reason doesn’t here) if that outburst is what it takes to get ride of the “lifeless” we were all lamenting last week.
I would happily do away with the “lovable” moniker if it also rid us of the “loser”.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
you've no idea
how many games he’ll lose. And he was just on the DL a few weeks ago, we survived that.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't get why so many people hate this
This team was dead in the water, even after yesterdays win we were still asleep at the wheel, Big Z was pitching a great game and it was time probably time for him to leave anyway.
Lou has been asleep in the dugout for some time now, Z stepped up and lit a fire, I’m just happy that the players still give a crap.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
He bumped an umpire and is facing a significant suspension
I don’t want to hear that he “inspired” his teammates. That is a load of hoey. A pitcher bumping an ump, throwing a ball to the outfield and destroying a Gatorade cooler doesn’t inspire teammates. You live in an incredibly naive world if you think the immature and selfish antics of one inspire 24 other professional athletes.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
So tell us...
how did you inspire your teammates @ NIU when the chips were down?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Grabbed and yelled until he was hoarse?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
You're such a jerk, I lol'ed.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
You didn't bump an umpire
And in the collegiate game if you ever got into it to such a degree with an umpire then you might as well walk back to your dorm room and pack up. Manager Walt Owens had a rule….I the manager argue with the umpires when/if called for. You the hitter or pitcher say your peace in a few words (no swearing, no name calling) and walk to the bench, period. If one of us violated that principle then Owens would suspend the us. Not one player was ever suspended by Owens because we understand how things operated.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
Nice anecdote...
and now that we know what you DIDN’T do, could you answer the question?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
You performed
You busted tail around the bases, you slid hard, you took the extra base, you pumped your fist on the bench while your teammate did something good in the field
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
Here's the problem BLou...
for the better part of the last 2 weeks, no one on the team has been “performing”.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Too little fire last week...
… too much this week.
It must be sad to live life perpetually unable to feel good about anything.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
So getting suspended is the elixir????
On a team already feeling the blow of having key players on the shelf or ineffective??? AGAIN, I do not object to the tantrum. What I do object to is the immaturity that led to bumping the ump and all that other crap that WILL lead to a lengthy suspension.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
You've got to break a couple egg yolks to make an omelet.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
then talk to the ump
because the ump bumped Z, not the other way around.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I call shenanigans
When Z was busting tail to get to base on a bunt you also criticized it.
You want him to perform in the way you expect. He’s performing in the way that he always performs. You get that fire and 100% effort and in exchange you also get some dumb moves. That’s who he is. So far, the good vastly outweighs the bad.
by chitownhawkeye on May 27, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
So Walt Owens is more intimidating than Lou Pinella?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I know of not a single college baseball player who bumped an umpire that I ever saw
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
Who in God's holy hell name is Walt Owens.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
A god among men.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
a man who can intimidate any baseball player
So much so that he is afraid to ever question an umpire.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I've done the Walt Owens leg work
The Negro League Museum is in KC. I'm planning on going this summer.
It’s supposed to be a very special museum.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Definitely worth the visit
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Who cares about the suspension
I thought the window for winning was closed? (For the record I also believe that, and remain believing that) Who cares if he misses some starts, as a fan I’m just happy to see the players giving a crap even as Lou sleeps through another game.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I don’t want to hear that he "inspired" his teammates.
Then don’t listen. You’re good at that.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't get why so many people hate this
This team was dead in the water, even after yesterdays win we were still asleep at the wheel, Big Z was pitching a great game and it was time probably time for him to leave anyway.
Lou has been asleep in the dugout for some time now, Z stepped up and lit a fire, I’m just happy that the players still give a crap.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I really wish Z would've walked away
when Lou got out there and told him too.
I’d feel much better about it. I guess we’ll just have to see how the discipline committee falls out.
The incident had already happened when Lou goit out there.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Had it?
Still. Z could’ve saved himself some money prolly by just walking up the tunnel at that point.
Well the ball toss did happen
on his way off the field.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Lou is guilty of not getting his ass out of the dugout quick enough
He knows Zambrano and his modus operandi.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
I do agree
the manager has to get out right away and protect the player.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
are you disagreeing
with how Lou did something?
Are you a woman?
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What I don't get
is Lou’s ambivalent response to this. He didn’t seem to try very hard to stop Z from arguing. And in the reports of the post-game presser it sounds like he said he’d talk to Z, but didn’t seem disappointed with Z.
Maybe this is exactly the fine line he should be walking, but I’d prefer him to take a stand on the umpiring issue which is starting to over-shadow the Cubs’ season.
Derrek Lee is good.
Then Lou is an idiot
Again, I have NO PROBLEM with Zambrano arguing a bang-bang call. Or in getting kicked out of the game for arguing, especially given that he was at the end of the game for him.
But BUMPING an umpire and engaging in all that other horsecrap on the way back to the dugout that WILL lead to a suspension?!? Inexcusable, especially for a team desperately trying to get its mojo finally.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
The problem with your argument is that Z didn't get tossed for arguing...
Watch the video, after Carlson made contact with Z- Z brushed with arm away, and immediately Carlson ejected him. It was only AFTER Z brushed Carlson’s arm away that Carlson ejected him. After watching the video numerous times, I have come to the conclusion that Carlson bumped Z intentionally, and Z then intentionally made an issue of it. If players are not allowed to make contact with umpires, then umpires should not be allowed to make contact with players. PERIOD.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 27, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sure
with Bradley, Lilly and Z now that Lou is going to talk to the whole team. I’d love to be a fly on that wall.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
As mentioned previously in this post...........
………..BB and the other boys in the booth better watch it or calls will be coming up from the dugout.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
not the same
we are still arguing about on the field matters.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Maybe he was jealous that Z got to have all the fun...
… have we seen a Lou blow-up yet this season? Maybe his 65 year old heart can’t handle the rage and he’s content to let more healthy individuals throw the tantrums he wishes he could…
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not about the tantrum...its all about the other crap that shall lead to a suspension that puts the Cubs at a disadvantage
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
What suspension?
I hadn’t seen once announced yet.
What disadvantage? I’m not sure how this has affected W’s and L’s yet.
If dude misses a game, and his replacement loses it, than YES, that loss is on Z and his bad attitude (although we certainly can’t know that Z would have won the game if he’d started). But neither of those things have happened yet.
What has happened is that “lifeless” team from last week is now showing a little passion.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
"Passion" ????
Is that yet another one of those useless catch phrases that some fans like to mutter about like “chemistry”…“playing with fire”….“winning one for the Gipper”???
Crikey.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
I wish i had the time and / or patience...
… to pick through your garbage comments and find something to the effect of you saying “this team is playing flat / lifeless / without passion” in the last week or so.
I don’t. And it doesn’t matter anyways. If you are too blind to at least see the POSSIBILITY that this could result in very little tangible loss while also helping this team gain an identity, than you can’t be helped.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
And it doesn't matter
When people prove him wrong (i.e. all the time) he runs away like a scared little girl and never responds back.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
We're like umpires to him.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Blou will just keep making great posts
you don’t want to fight with other posters after they show you up, Blou just uses that to write better posts that will then inspire others.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Again, i don't have the stomache to pick through everything...
… but i’m fairly certain he was crucifying Z for not legging out that bunt too. Its a no-win.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
words like
sparkplug?
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
you never know
maybe he gets 5 games and with off days he misses exactly no starts.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
That might be the answer Andrew...
Lou might have been waiting to pick his spot to unleash hell on an ump and Z stole his moment.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
"YOU ARE STEALING MY THUNDER"...
… says Lou’s smirk.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Look at Lou's smile.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Smile came pre-all the bumping and other crap
The tantrum was great. The rest of the story horrible.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
No it wasn't
you have no clue what you are talking about. That picture was taken when Z was throwing the Ump out after he bumped Z. Seriously, do you ever have any clue what you are talking about?!
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Of course
you go running for the hills after you are proven wrong. Is that how you handled things on the baseball field? When you struck out you go scurrying off to the showers to sulk for someone making you look bad?
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Good lord...
This isn’t a gladiator ring. We’re not required to sit around our keyboard waiting for a reply from an antagonist just so someone we don’t know gets some feeling of closure about our internet post. Geesh…
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Wrong, do your homework...
The smile came AFTER the contact initiated by Carlson.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 27, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
so
this proves you didn’t watch the game. This is AFTER he’s been thrown out. In fact, Z has just thrown the UMP out of the game there.
I’d love to have a picture of Z throwing the ump out.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Lemme figure out my DVR...
… and i can make that happen for you i believe.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Here you go...
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9356/picture1tqe.png
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Aaaaandddd....
second try is a charm.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
sawheet!
thankee for the email!
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
That's exactly what I was talking about.
Where’s Lou getting between his player and the ump? That’s Lou ambling up to get the front row seat for the show.
Rec’d – thanks for finding that AJS.
Derrek Lee is good.
perhaps
he agrees with Z.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
And lets not act all surprised when MLB umpires have bias against the Cubs anymore
Milton Bradley? Carlos Zambrano? Yeah, we sure are winning over the umpires. Lord knows they are a band of brothers with long memories. That’s the other thing that is so damned frustrating about Z bumping the umpire. He took it too far and he knew it. This was premediated, and it will lead to suspension and every damned umpire not giving us a break on anything.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
Its like the butterfly effect!!
When Z threw that ball, it caused a change in freakin wind patterns that resulted in a hurricane in India!!! That hurricane will result in a total collapse to India’s economy and the world will fall into utter disarray, chaos and anarchy!!!
Give me a freakin break, how do you know exactly how the umps are going to react?! Cause we are the only team in the majors who fights with umps huh?! My god.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
So now Z had this whole thing planned from the start?
You never cease to amaze me.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
we're not supposed to have to
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
dammit.
we’re not supposed to have to “win over” the umpires. The umpires are paid to be impartial, to NOT be aggressive and to NOT start stuff with the players.
If you’d watched the game (and it’s clear you didn’t) you’d know that the ump moved aggressively towards the ump and caused the contact.
There should be a suspension. The ump.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you thinking............
………..this stuff doesn’t weigh in the minds of the humans officiating these games?
That’s a bit naive. Like all of us, they can be influenced, and these events can linger.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
they are paid
to be impartial.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I never realized that.
Nonetheless, it doesn’t change the human element.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
but somehow
Z’s contract does?
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Uh??????
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Z is, apparently, a big baby for reacting
but the Umps, who are PAID to be impartial (and Z is NOT) aren’t subject the same rules, right?
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Umps are like DMV employees
They have jobs for life and can’t get fired, so they throw their weight around and bully people and apply themselves only when they feel like it.
On top of that, Fudd Selig thinks of umps as some kind of extension of the league office, like they were representatives of his on the field. So they never get called on for poor performance and antagonizing players.
Nice work if you can get it!
Note to Blou
Zambrano could get suspended for a MONTH and he will still pitch more innings MORE effectively than Rich Harden
barring a miracle. You freak out because Z allows himself to get baited by an umpire but keep insisting that is fine that Harden may miss half the games because he will be so lights out when he does pitch. For now he is succeeding at the first and blowing the 2nd. I will take Z over Harden any day.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
I think both are at fault
Umps like confrontation, the ump leaned in, he made contact — and the rest could be predicted. The modern-day ump wants in on the action. They want to make Sportscenter now. How many times have we seen an ump follow a player back to the bench after a disputed strike 3 call? These guys are itchin’ for a fight.
Everybody knows Z’s a loose cannon…. This ump took the opportunity for some extra face time on TV, and baited Zambrano.
And Z let himself get caught up in it. I don’t know how you change his personality.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 27, 2009 5:57 PM CDT reply actions
Exactly.
Everyone is saying Z is 28 years old and should grow up, but how old are these umpires?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish Blou
would say these things to Z’s face. That would take care of our problem here at BCB at least.
Just sos you know Blou, your post is AN EXACT PARALLEL TO Z’S BEHAVIOR TODAY. SO ARE THE VAST MAJORITY OF YOUR POSTS HERE! GET A CLUE MAN. YOU ARE IRONY: FORM OF BLOGGER!!!!!!!!!!!
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
TW...S...S?
Sorry. I’m new to this game.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 27, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, there sure
looked like a lot of laughs in the dugout over the Gatoraid dispenser….so I don’t think anybody realy took this that seriously, except Zambrano.
I should have posted the over/under on that new vending machine — when I saw it on opening day, I wondered who the first player to smash it would be…. all the way to the end of May! Quite a while, really, until Dempster struck it.
It’s really more fun to see juice jugs flying out of the dugout, though. However, Gatoraid sure gets plenty of camera time out of these hijinks.
Yeah, it’s a bit silly, but the huffing and puffing over this is also quite entertaining.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 27, 2009 6:05 PM CDT reply actions
Hell no, I want them to duct tape it up.
A running, season-long joke. I would love it.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I want them to just tie the broken top up with one of Z's jerseys.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 27, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
When it finally breaks down completely
hold a memorial service for it.
I love the idea :)
Jackie likes the smell of cut grass, he used to play ball on Saturdays, Playin in the sun...
You must admit
those dispensers seem to be better made than most automobiles these days…..pounded twice in a few days, keeps on givin’ up Gatoraid slurpees…
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 27, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember when Maddux attacked the water cooler
( Perhaps teh Gatoraid was on the DL) He obviously felt a bit sheepish after the game and when a reporter asked about it he asked
“was it funny ?”. I am sure Z will get over it.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 27, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
300+ comments from this fanpost?
DEJESUS!!!
For video:
If you can deal with the espn.com ads.
Looks an awful lot like the umpire just keeps getting closer, but Z definitely forearmed him away. Can’t do that…. BUT, who is training this bunch of umpires to confront players and walk towards them, nearly to the point of being the aggressor?? There needs to be something done, and fast. I’ve seen this kind of hardass behavior several times with several players and teams over the last few years. Nobody needs it. Stand your ground or walk away – NO ADVANCING. You are supposed to be the bigger person!
Jackie likes the smell of cut grass, he used to play ball on Saturdays, Playin in the sun...
It was only after the Ump bumped into him
and Z gave a little forearm to push him back.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
that's awesome
but it’s also cut.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
and when did umps turn into glass
I mean in understand a suspension on any meaningful contact, but a slight brush?
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Note to BLou and Worf
You’ve made your points, over and over again. Enough already.
just so i'm clear
you berate Z for his lack of self-control and immaturity….then come on the internet and….wait for it…..wait for it….show a lack of self control and immaturity.
if this is performance art, bravo! if not…well. i think you’ve earned a 3-game suspension, sir.
So internet blogger = paid professional ballplayer?
I don’t really see that parallel.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Cubs Win
Get over it…..“Z”- is the same player he has always been and probably will always be. Accept it…or better yet go jump on the Brewer / Cardinal band wagon. My God, this is the same “Z” that punched a member of his own team. What he did today was mild by comparison.
In other words, he didn't kill anybody, so it's ok?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 27, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
So does this mean we need to trade for DeRosa?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
that's actually what made Z so angry.
Either that or when the ump told Z to pound sand in the dugout. To which Z responded, “What?!? Me?!!? No you pound sand!”
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
BLou = Big Z
They are both crazy and drive their teams to show up and produce.
If you don’t believe me just look a the amount of posts on this fan post.
I WIN!
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 27, 2009 9:45 PM CDT reply actions
Ahhh! Welcome to BCB and your first post!
THE PROPHET HAS SPOKEN. CLOSE THE POST, IT’S BEEN DECIDED BY THOSE AT VEB.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Can
someone show me a correlation between a “mature ace” and a team’s ability to win ball games? to win playoff games? to win a World Series?
I would think the more pertinent questions are...
1) Do you believe that the (ostensible) best/longest serving pitcher on a team plays a leadership role?
and then 2) Do you believe that leadership is necessary for a team to succeed?
I would say yes to both…your question would lead me to think that you disagree.
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 27, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Let me put it this way
do you think this season is hinged on Zambrano’s actions this day?
How about the following?
1) 0 wins when scoring less than 4 runs
- Thus far, which is enough to show at least the beginning of a trend
2) 3 wins when committing an error
- Same as above
3) Losing Aramis Ramirez for two months
Control the things you can
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 28, 2009 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions
AL take charge of this site man
Fuck subtlety, ban Blou already.
He’s like the Aaron Miles of BCB, he has no purpose here and takes away from the community more than he contributes.
It wouldn't matter, he always comes back even though no one wants him here
He’s not the Aaron Miles of BCB, he’s the herpes.
by Wreckard on May 28, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
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