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Umpires Gone Wild

This part of the "General Instructions To Umpires" that appears in MLB Rule 9 has been quoted on this site before, but this morning it bears repeating:

You are the only official representative of baseball on the ball field. It is often a trying position which requires the exercise of much patience and good judgment, but do not forget that the first essential in working out of a bad situation is to keep your own temper and self-control.

Many major league umpires seem to have forgotten that simple rule. It's a rule of courtesy and professionalism, more so than an "instruction". Instead, umpires seem to go out of their way to be confrontational; the Cubs have been involved in several incidents with umpires already this season. The players involved -- Milton Bradley, Ted Lilly and Carlos Zambrano -- are not blameless, certainly; but all three incidents could have wound up with different resolutions had the umpires simply walked away, at least until a coach or Lou Piniella could have come out of the dugout and helped defuse the situation. Does it seem to you as if Lou doesn't get out of his seat as fast as he used to? In an incident like yesterday's, the manager or a coach has to be in the player's face right away to help prevent things from escalating.

It's as if the umpires want to head home and watch themselves on "Baseball Tonight" or the MLB Network. Umpires are best when fans and players go home from the game and don't even think about them. They should be invisible, simply making their best decisions. Granted, some close calls are going to go against one team or another and arguments, like yesterday's, are going to ensue. When that happens the umpire has the responsibility to not allow the situation to escalate.

Mark Carlson failed in that responsibility yesterday. The video replays are clear. Carlson turned his arm into Carlos Zambrano almost as if to say, "I don't like what you're doing and so I'm going to initiate contact so I can file a report that will get you suspended." That's what set Z off -- I can't read lips, but if any of you can, take a look at the video. It appeared that Z said to him, "YOU touched ME -- I'm going to throw YOU out of the game!"

As Cubs fans, we don't see many of the close calls that involve other teams, so I can't say how many similar incidents there have been in recent years. We all did hear, though, about the incident involving umpire Paul Schrieber and the Tigers' Magglio Ordonez in which Schrieber put his arm on Ordonez after calling him out on strikes and Mags argued. Ordonez was at no time combative, as you can see in this video:

Schrieber was forced to apologize. This would have been a perfect opportunity for someone, anyone (I wouldn't expect the feckless Bud Selig to do it) in the commissioner's office to stand up and say that they weren't going to tolerate bad umpire behavior any more. They did so in the incident involving Bradley and umpire Mike Winters two years ago after which Winters was suspended for "escalating the situation". It seems to me that Mark Carlson "escalated" yesterday's "situation" by deliberately bumping Z so that he could file a report recommending a suspension. Even though Z himself admitted he shouldn't have done what he did:

"I apologize to [Carlson]," he said. "After he kicked me out, I should've gone to the clubhouse and kept watching the game."

... I believe the incident was made worse by Carlson. The last sentence of the "General Instructions To Umpires" linked above says:

Finally, be courteous, impartial and firm, and so compel respect from all.

Was Carlson firm? Yes. Was he courteous and impartial? I think not. This is a good moment for baseball to get umpires back on that path. Let's hope they take the opportunity.

Comment 528 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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Its unfortunate

but nothing will be done until there’s a “serious” situation between a player or coach and an umpire. Instead of being proactive, most of society today is reactive.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 9:03 AM CDT reply actions  

YES AND SOONER THAN LATER....

There is going to be a major incident that occurs on the field . It’s a fine line for both umpires and players and the coaching staff . I would have thought that Soto could have got between Z and the ump before he did…..

by cubs north on May 28, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

HEY!

I thought this was going to be a post with pictures of UMPIRES taking their shirts off.

“Umpires GONE WILD!”

by TheHawkRules on May 28, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

um

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

HAHA!

There you go… need to post some more pictures and have everyone vote on worst UMPIRE picture.

by TheHawkRules on May 28, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

gee, thanks Al

that helped. :P :P :P

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd

just for the hell of it

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about this one?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess

when I looked at that one on google image search, he didn’t look so big. Darn thumbnails…

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

damn kids!

GET OFFA MY LAWN!

(those are the fielders, man)

DON’T CARE!

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

If memory serves correct

There was a game, where somebody put a hamburger down on top of 3rd base, or home plate for him…

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on May 28, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Bradley incident when he was with the Pads wasn't serious enough

Nothing will be.

MLB doesn’t care, they keep getting the exposure from ESPN and stuff when their umps are out of control. They have no incentive to fix it.

by Allie on May 28, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

You hit it right on the head.

Visit bloggingthebracket.com, SBNation's bracketology/hoops rambling site!

by Chris Dobbertean on May 28, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm more concerned

with the attitude of these gatorade coolers…

by cozmotaylor123 on May 28, 2009 9:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Hey...

The only things we’ve actually hit in the last 9 games, are the Pirates and that Gatorade cooler. I say we take that thing on the road.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on May 28, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ha ha ha ha ha

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on May 28, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I saw that in

the trib this morning. pretty funny stuff.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Outstanding!

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I feel so special to have 7 recs :)

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by jkobus on May 28, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

OR...

Players can shut up and play.

Carlson made the RIGHT call and he had to stand there and watch an overgrown brat charge him and yell at him. And not only was the manager pretty slow the respond, but the catcher was completely uninterested in helping.

How about we expect better of the players?

I do think Carlson overstepped, but I’m not interested in some clarion call for change, not when you have a sport that even allows Ted Lilly to hop the fence in the first place.

Baseball is the only sport that tolerates abuse of officials.

So here’s the deal. I have no problem suspending umps who don’t walk away.

But that MUST come with greater penalties for players and managers. In football and basketball, there are penalties for even stepping over the out-of-bounds line.

Give the umps less to walk away from before you suspend them for not walking away.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 9:09 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

What does this mean?
Baseball is the only sport that tolerates abuse of officials.

First, what exactly is “abuse” to you? And how does baseball tolerate it in comparison to other sports?

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on May 28, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

The other major sports

have rules governing where a player not involved in a play can be at and what they are allowed to do. Also with basketball a ref has the recourse of a technical foul and in football the ref can call an unsportsmanlike penalty. As far as I know, there isn’t much an umpire can do to a player who oversteps boundaries aside from tossing them from the game.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 28, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hockey has a half circle

and only the Capt or Asst Capt can talk to the ref when he is in it

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

in a word

no. The umps already have too much power. Being able to eject Ted Lilly from the bench in a game he’s not even playing in when he didn’t come onto the field is utter crap.

The ump has a job — be impartial, don’t create situations, remember that the game isn’t about you.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

So, basically

The umps should shut up and take it while overgrown brats scream at them, and if they don’t walk away, then they get suspended?

No.

So basically, the umps have to be inhuman robots.

And I’m not saying Lilly should have been ejected from the bench.

I’m saying that hopping the fence should be an automatic, no-doubt about it suspension.

The umps will walk away a lot faster if they know the league has their backs.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

the umps have to be

IMPARTIAL and NOT CAUSE INCIDENTS.

The league has ALWAYS had the umps backs. Bud will NEVER take his umpires to task.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

John Hirshbeck would like to disagree with you

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Know this

This incident does not happen if Zambrano doesn’t charge the ump like an idiot.

The incident was CAUSED by Zambrano. You can argue that the ump either didn’t defuse it or escalated it.

But this incident was NOT caused by the ump.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Can we agree on this?

Zambrano initiated the argument. The call was close and the call was right. Z had a right to argue the call, but needed to settle down or be pulled away, neither of which happened. That’s on Z and the Cubs.

The umpire did not turn away from Zambrano. Had he turned away and Z continued to follow, and no Cub players stopped Z, then the umpire would be right in throwing Z out. Instead, the ump turned into Z. That’s on the ump.

After the ump threw out Z, Z’s act was childish, which Z himself acknowledged.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's fine with me

But where is the “right” to argue calls?

Seriously, where is that “right” in the rulebook?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Every

“right” does not have to be in the rulebook, that would be ludicrous and lead to a rulebook that was impossible to manage.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

So, there is no right

So in theory, they can be thrown out immediately?

Basketball players get technical fouls and football players get unsportsmanlike conduct for less than was Z did BEFORE the ejection.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Balls and Strikes

I would say that indeed it is implicit in the rulebook. A player CANNOT argue balls and strikes – doing so is grounds for ejection.

If it is specifically noted that they CANNOT argue a specific type of call, that seems to fairly clearly imply that some degree of arguing other types of calls is to be tolerated.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on May 28, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good reasoning

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do you watch the NBA or NFL?

They argue just as much. They come running up to refs, yelling, waving and making all sorts of gestures. Coaches stand right behind refs on the sidelines and scream obscenities directly into their ears.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a ref in those sports argue back. I rarely see them even acknowledge the tirade of which they’re on the receiving end.

by Arbusto on May 28, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Add the NHL to that

Forgetting the fact a coach goes out onto the ice during a period, but none of the refs ever get in the face of a player.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

It just seems reasonable to me

that a player can be allowed momentary and brief vocalization when a close play goes the “wrong way.” It’s a tense game.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sure...I'd agree with that

But to charge the kneeling ump with fists clenched?

He could have been ejected for that alone. But then we’d have 1,000 posts bemoaning a quick trigger.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

the ump

was standing up as the play completed. He wasn’t on his knees like a guillotine victime.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Z was already in full rant as the ump stood up

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

you're talking about

two seconds span of time. Maybe three at the most.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd have to re-watch the video for the "clenched fists."

I know he was holding the ball in one hand which would look clenched.

Anyway, I agree that Z is intimidating whether his fists are clenched or not.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

the ump

initiated the contact. Had he done his job, Z would have gone back to the mound, pitched to another guy, and been done for the day.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's too far.

We have no idea that Z would have calmed down eventually. There was definitely stuff brewing between the Cubs and both the umps in general and this particular crew.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lou and Larry were on their way out at that point.

Had the ump not initiated contact, had the ump not continued to move in towards Z, there never would have been contact.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lou showed no interest in

1) stopping Z
or
2) seriously reprimanding Z for what he did.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

neither would I

had I seen an umpire bump one of my players.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do you really think

1) that the umps are out to get the Cubs?
2) that the Cubs are well served by making the umps the enemy?
3) that they’ll play better distracted by thinking the umps will still be out to get them each game?

Lou has a leadership role to take here that I’m surprised he’s not taking. There may be something to this, but I’m not seeing it yet.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think

that THIS umpire BUMPED Z. I think that in general, a lot of umps are missing a lot of calls.

That’s all I think.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I saw a video view

where you can see him walking in the background.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Had Z done his job

He’d have been out of the inning

His job is to block the plate

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

well

he tried to do his job. It’s the runner’s job to evade the block. Both are trying to get the runner out.

The UMP however, is supposed to call things impartially and fairly, and not instigage contact.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

The ump DID make the call

impartially and fairly

Z couldn’t handle it and had to charge the ump like a punk

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

you left out the part

where the ump isn’t supposed to initiate contact.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

He didn't

He did turn toward Z, which he shouldn’t have done.

But Z took the bait perfectly. Not surprising, considering that Z has the brain cells of a trout.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

it doesn't matter if Z

is an autistic down’s syndrome child or not.

The umpires ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BAIT THE PLAYERS!

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Please

let’s not talk about those maladies in this way or context.

People with autism and down’s syndrome can both show quite a bit of intelligence. I am glad to call people with both disabilities my friends.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Initiating the argument

and initiating the contact are completely separate and need to viewed that way. the ump did cause the contact, worf. have you not watched the video?

by murphymj on May 28, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zambrano was walking away when the ump stepped toward him and leaned into him to provoke contact.

Your arguments conveniently ignore the actual facts. Z was walking away and the ump followed him in order to continue the conflict and that’s just plain wrong and the opposite of his job. Had the umpire not provoked contact in order to throw Z out this whole incident wouldn’t have continued to escalate. The umpire is just as much at fault if not moreso because it’s his job to keep his cool and not escalate an altercation. Carlson deserves as much of a suspension as Zambrano.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 28, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

rec'd

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fine..

I’m all for umps doing that.

IF players and managers are given harsher punishments for acting like idiots.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rule against Idiots

Section 1: act like an child get fined
Section 2: act like an idiot get suspended
Section 3: act like an a$$ get suspended and fined.

by Arbusto on May 28, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guarantee you that umps would be a lot different today

Had Robbie Alomar gotten 30 games instead of 5.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Alomar was a much different situation

and what he did, you dont do that to ANYONE.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

And baseball spat on the umpires all over again

By giving him 5 games and then letting him play in the playoffs.

But in drew’s world, the ump is supposed to say, “Thank you sir, may I have some more spittle!”

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

No

the ump is supposed to eject him from the game and not let the situation escalate.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

And if he would have ejected Z

There would be 1,000 posts on here talking about how the ump had a quick trigger and the fans didn’t come to see the ump and all that bull crap.

Fine, you’ve set the standard. The umps should just throw players out instead of letting them scream. Good to know where you stand.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

You are twisting what I said

I was responding to your comment that an ump that get’s spit on should take it and ask for more. In that situation, the ump should eject the player and be done because that is his job.

There are plenty of civil (and some that go slightly beyond civil) arguments between players/coaches and the umps where no one should get ejected.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Zambrano was in full rant from the beginning

By YOUR standard, he should have been ejected almost immediately.

Zambrano was nowhere near civil.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

And maybe he should have

but that doesn’t mean the ump should initiate contact with the player

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

And I'm saying that if the ump throws him out

Then the argument is, “The umps have too quick a trigger!”

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

That reaction

depends entirely on how the player is acting before they get kicked out.

If the player asks a simple question and gets tossed, yes that is too quick a trigger.

If the player throws a number of choice words at the ump, then he probably deserves to get tossed.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ejections vs. Contact

We are really talking about 2 different things here. Having been an umpire, I don’t have any problem with an umpire making ejections. This is the one true judgement call umpires are paid to make, so on some level we need to allow them to do their job. Frankly, I think that umpires allow more arguing and screaming than perhaps they should.

That said, I was always trained to step back. It isn’t a matter of ignoring or taking the yelling, but it is the umpires job to avoid confrontation. To me, there is a higher standard for umpires in a conflict.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on May 28, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right on - A higher standard

We as fans pay to see these idiot num-nuts play a game that we love and they happen to be great at, not because they are intelligent, polite and well spoken. The rule book for the umps states what his job is, period. Maybe there should be a rule book for the players, but I haven’t seen one. And maybe because their job is to just go out there and play. They act up, they get tossed, fined and suspended.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on May 28, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

not at all

stop putting words into my mouth. That situation is not this situation.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

But if that situation is handled better

A whole generation of umps are different.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

maybe,

maybe not. I think the umps have too much power already. Changing the reaction in that situation isn’t going to make a difference.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right . . .

 . . . and we’re seeing here a good example of how hard it is to walk away from someone and just diffuse a situation.

It’s human nature to get wild, to get crazy, and to want to be right at all costs. Right, guys?

How many BCBers would make good umpires? :-)

"From childhood's hour I have not been as others were - I have not seen as others saw." - Alone, Edgar Allan Poe

by Edgewood on May 28, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

If Lilly is screaming things from the dugout, the ump was perfectly within his rights to eject him

it’s not like it’s the first time it’s ever happened. You are not allowed to show the umpire up, it’s been the rule for a LOOOOOOOOOONG time, screaming crap at the ump from the dugout falls in the “showing them up” category

by WanderingWanderer on May 28, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

and I don't mean it's happened with Lilly before

I mean someone being ejected for yelling things from the dugout

by WanderingWanderer on May 28, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's still crap.

be the ump. focus on the damn game.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

WRONG

totally ignorant statement saying baseball is the only sport that tolerates abuse of officals.

Football coaches go berserk every Sunday on officials. Ever watch an NBA game where almost every calls is debated? Did you see Coach Q during Game 4 vs. DET?

Arguing with referees or officials is inherent in every sport. C’mon Worf, you are better than that.

by socalbob on May 28, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zambrano's behavior was inexcusable

Again, no problem at all with the tantrum and getting kicked out of the ballgame for arguing a bang-bang call at the plate. But that contact with the umpire is inexcusable. And lets be very honest here….Zambrano was acting in premeditated fashion and was loving every minute of his acting sequence out there.

1. Is it any wonder why the rest of the baseball world thinks Zambrano is an assclown?

2. Do the Cubs realize that they are increasingly pissing off an umpire union that is a band of brothers and known for metering out their own form of justice?

VERY disappointed with Lou Piniella yesterday. He let all of this unwind out of control without thinking about the consequences.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:10 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm disappointed in Soto

The catcher’s job is to control the pitcher. He must have been scared.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

His mind was on the post-game spread in the lockerroom

Fat ass Soto doesnt’ walk out to the mound as many times as he used to. They need to put a rest station in between the mound and home plate. I can’t wait to see how Soto deals with the summer heat and humidity.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

MAYBE HE SAW WHAT

Michael Barretts face looked like after his incident with Big Z…….

by cubs north on May 28, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

If there's one guy that can control Z its Geo

Last season, about the same time IIRC, Z was starting to come unglued. Geo grabbed him by the jersey near the first buttoned button and said something that shut Z up right away. Can’t remember the game but it was at Wrigley.

That’s was I hoped Geo did and I can’t explain why he didn’t yesterday. Unlike Barrett, I think Geo can stand his own to Z and his crazy antics.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think

partly, it’s that Z didn’t really become unhinged till he was bumped by the ump. One thing that’s getting lost here is that Z didn’t have his best stuff yesterday, and struggled — and DIDN’T lose his sh!t. There was no way Soto would have been able to get between Z and the ump in the time between the ump bumped Z and Z went off.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again...

…the umpire is the one that initiated contact. What is so hard to understand about that?!?!

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Amen...

But then their flawed logic would be, well… flawed.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on May 28, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Premeditated?

really?!

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Today, yes...

… yesterday, according to BLou, there was NO CONCEIVABLE WAY Zambrano had the mental acumen to premeditate something of this nature.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he does either

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Take it up with BLou. :-)

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, I don't think Zambrano

has the sense God gave a turkey

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good thing he was blessed with a strong arm then, huh?

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

who was it who called BLou

“blunt but honest”? In this thread alone, he’s called Z an “assclown”, suggested that his reaction was “premeditated”, called Soto a “fat ass” and said that his mind wasn’t on the game.

It’s like listening to WGN PostGame. :(

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Does BLou like

any of the current Cub players other than Theriot and Harden?

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on May 28, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

BLou also skips facts

And when given links and facts, he skips that as well.

He is not a waste of a post, but his post will start with one idea, and then veer into insulting people, stealing credability from a decent post.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by jkobus on May 28, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just for the record...

… i grew to hate my beloved Iowa Hawkeye basketball team a few seasons back. In that case, players were being picked up for rape (repeatedly) and assault and credit card theft and on and on…. the coach was a slime ball, the athletic department was ignorant, and the play on the court sucked. I was done with it, and stopped buying tickets, paying attention… anything.

It wasn’t fun anymore. It wasn’t healthy. I focused on other pursuits, and fully intend on getting back in to them this year now that the coach has been replaced with a seemingly good guy and the team has been revamped to make me proud.

If you can’t support a team, why call yourself a fan?
Why not just step away and find something you don’t hate to fill your free time? Seriously.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not to nitpick...

…but the credit card theft was a football team thing. Dominique Douglas and Anthony Bowman were the guys that got caught up in that scandal.

OT: The Hawkeye football team this year is going to be good, REALLY good.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

That WAS the football team, a couple of years later...

… and the reason i’m still a fan is Feretz kicked those players to the curb faster than you can say Nile Kinnick.

There was a credit card incident with some basketball players or recruits as well i believe, back in Alford’s heyday. Couple that with Pierce (twice!), and the general lack of good play on the court, and i was done.

Agree on the football team looking huge. Tough road schedule though.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

You and a lot of people stopped following our Hawkeyes bball team.

Just when they looked like they were turning it around, everyone left the team. Pretty sad.

I don’t remember the credit card scandal with the bball team. But I don’t doubt it happened.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll try to dig through the Daily Iowan archives and see if i can find it...

… and to be honest, giving up Iowa Basketball was a harder decision than i thought it’d be. I enjoyed going to Carver, even though the vibe there generally isn’t great like it is for football. I thought there were a lot of stand-up guys on the team, and i honestly believed the guy in charge (Alford) was ruining it. Now that he’s gone and things look to be turning for the better, i’m back in.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's funny because Iowa use to love it's bball program.

Back in the days with Dr. Tom. When they use to play the theme to the exorcist before the tipoff. Those were the glory days.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

The full court press was brutal.

As a Des Moines native, it broke my heart to see it at Drake. It should have been Dr. Tom in Iowa City till he wanted to leave, and Alford should have never stepped foot in the place.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bowlsby was too concerned with..

…making his mark at Iowa. He introduced three new coaches in the same year, Ferentz, Alford and the wrestling coach who I can’t think of.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those were good days...

The truly glorious was when Lute Olson was coach, and had unbelievable players like Ronnie Lester. Ronnie Lester is still the best basketball player I have ever seen. If not for his knee injuries his senior year, I am sure he would have been one of the 50 greatest NBA players of all time, and headed for the Hall of Fame soon…

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on May 28, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep.

Remember when we could recruit the all stars from Chicago to come over and play for us, like BJ? Now we can’t even get Jordan’s mediocre son to sign a scholarship.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I never saw a 10-rec

before until today.

Excellent!

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Love that sig

I have it up in my office.

It’s supposedly a definition contest won at Tex A&M a couple years ago.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

In a twisted way, it really is the best way to describe it.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you Andrew

for saying this. He is beyond ridiculous.

by sue369 on May 28, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not defending Blou

but soto has put on weight.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

yes, and?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

and maybe he should have said it in a different way

but that doesn’t change the fact that Soto is overweight. Z also behaved like a child.

It seems far too often that a comment can be judged based on who says it. I don’t even know why I bothered to say that I wasn’t defending Blou. That was my fault. It’s my opinion and I stand behind. If it gets lumped in with things he says guess that’s how it has to be.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 28, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

A comment WILL be juged on who says it...

… if you have a history of thoughtful, productive comments, people will approach them with an open mind.

If not… well… think of that dude in your office who treats everyone like crap. You reap what you sew.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

that is how it should be. Unfortunately it doesn’t always work that way. Which is why my initial reaction was to distance my comment from his comment.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 28, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

So have i...

… care to call me a fatass?

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

FAT ASS!!!!!

I’ve put on weight too!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

If people are going to comment on the appearance of other by calling them ugly or fat then they should post a picture of themselves.

You have called Z ugly and now you are calling people fat perhaps we could see a picture of you in order to judge your appearance. If you are going to dish it out, I’m sure you won’t mind taking critiques of your looks. You seem to think it’s somehow relevant to a baseball discussion so if we are to properly judge your opinions we should see what you look like regardless of how painful it may be for the rest of us.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 28, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did I call

anyone a fatass? No I did not. Why would I call you a fatass? I don’t know you. Honestly I wouldn’t call anyone a fatass.

However weight is a relevant concern when it comes to a professional athlete.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 28, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Weight is relevent to a lot of things...

… including Soto’s performance. I’m not ignorant. It’s affected his game. I get that.

BLou had the option to call somebody a fatass, or say what YOU did…

but soto has put on weight.

You did a much more measured job, and he could learn from your example.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's the internet.

No need for the macho posturing.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 28, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't even know what you are trying to communicate here.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was referring to the

“so have I care to call me a fatass”

No I would not care to call you a fatass. I’m not calling anyone a fatass.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 28, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

he was

referring to BLou’s comment about Soto.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Except

he replied to my comment.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 28, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe the thread was hard to follow...

BLou called Soto a fatass. I felt it wasn’t justified, even IF (and yes, i agree he has) he’s put on wight. Why go from stating the facts (“dude is a few pounds heavier”) to insulting (“fatass”)?

It wasn’t macho posturing… it was trying to bring to light his ignorance of Al’s “don’t say it here if you wouldn’t say it to their face” rule.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Apologies

I was just confused as to why it came under my response. As I have said I wouldn’t call anyone a fatass.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 28, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

And i appreciate that...

… i wish BLou would learn from your example. THAT was my point.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Girls....

You’re ALL pretty, OK?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did it hurt?

The surgery you had to remove your sense of humor. Did it hurt?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh please

You guys spent 30 posts debating who had a fat ass, who was responding to who and whether that was out of line.

I have a 10-year-old niece. I’ve heard her talk to her friends.

You guys nailed it.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

You seem to be claiming that this conversation is beneath your maturity level yet you hurl insults in every direction.

You seem to find it acceptable to insult people by calling them fat, ugly, stupid, and now female. On top of all of that you just insulted your 10 year old niece, who I’m willing to bet could carry on a more intelligent conversation.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 28, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow...

You’re seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, aren’t you?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

over the line, dood

quit while you’re ahead. Or at least even.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't get sanctimonious with me, drew

I have a nephew with autism and I ignored your silly and offensive comparison too.

One, I didn’t think you meant it like that and two, outrage bores me.

But you might want to take a look at the line you’re yapping about.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

you doth protest

too much.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, now maybe I DO think

you meant it that way.

That tells me a lot.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow
You guys spent 30 posts debating who had a fat ass, who was responding to who and whether that was out of line.

I have a 10-year-old niece. I’ve heard her talk to her friends.

You guys nailed it.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 29, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you, Worf, need to drop this right now.

You’re pissing people off.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough Al

I respect your wishes.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I don't think it's funny to put someone down by calling them female.

If that’s your idea of humor then maybe Zambrano isn’t the only one with maturity issues.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 28, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh.

Just when Villeslgr and i had figured it out, reached an understanding, and moved on…

Oh well.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was a bit of a suprise

to see when I came to the site. Oh well. Atleast we’re pretty.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 29, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Come on don’t you know it was all premeditated?

Carlson, all the Pirates, Soto were all in on it.

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by puckishcubsfan on May 28, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

The way Zambrano immediatly reacted he was heading for an ejection

how would you react if you had him in your face like that. The ump made the call and Zambrano just went nuts. Plus he post ejection scene, if I were the Cubs I would suspend him for his actions with the bat in the dugout, he was swinging a bat rather close to Larry Rothschild’s face. For his post ejection antics I’d suspend him for 10 games (2 Starts).

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 28, 2009 9:12 AM CDT reply actions  

I would think Larry Rothschild is very pissed off and for good reason

Lou Piniella should internally punish Zambrano for his actions that were in defiance of Rothschild and put Rothschild in significant harm’s way.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

a few times he came close to catching one

does being a Cubs Pitching Coach come with hazard pay?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's when the nonsense will end

When Zambrano hurts someone else. Or breaks his own hand.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's already hurt someone.

And we traded that guy away.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

...and that

helped the Cubs.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Z was just doing what everyone else wanted to...

… or, would you rather forgo last season’s performance by Soto and hold on to Barrett?

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying anyone wants Barrett back.

I’m saying Z hit his starting C.

Is Sean Marshall our most dependable starter?

by DGU on May 28, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think

either Z or Barrett would say they were particularly proud of that. On the other hand, Prince shoved one of his teammates across teh dugout last year, didn’t he?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another

Another so called Cub fan who hates Zambrano so much they want the Cubs to lose.

Soto and Zambrano and there’s a lot of people here who trash Soriano and Ramirez here while letting others slide.

Pattern perhaps?

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by puckishcubsfan on May 28, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I bet a good portion of the black and hispanic outfielders...

… both Cubs and otherwise, would agree.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'm actually a reds fan dropping by

and i would love for Zambrano to pitch for Cincinnati, but i think what did was totally out of line.

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 28, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would suggest

that you watch the videotape again. Note where the ump bumps into Z.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

if i were the ump

i would have ejected him right when he got in my face, no need to react like that. I don’t think he should be suspended for bumping the umpire, and perhaps the umpire should be reprimanded for that, I think he should be suspended for throwing a ball to the warning track, throwing his glove, and taking a bat to the Gatorade dispenser. Regardless of who made contact with whom Zambrano should not have reacted like that.

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 28, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure

the ump has no say on what Z does to the gatorade dispenser.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

That dispenser needs to go on the DL, though.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too true.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on May 28, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can see Gatorade

maybe doing a commercial from these last couple of games. It will be interesting tonight to see if the machine is fixed.

by sue369 on May 28, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

670 the score just had the guy

who repairs the Gatorade Machine on. He explained that he is an employee of Pepsi Co not the Cubs, and that Dempster did a lot less damage than Z (no doubt) and it will be functional tonight, but will be without a top since he had to order a new one.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh for god's sake. Race baiting? Really?

I’ve seen plenty of hate for Theriot, and Fontenot, is there some racism against Cajuns going on?

How about the hatred for Cotts, Heilman, Howry, Eyre, Gregg, Freel, Miles, and Barrett. All white last time I checked.

I’m not naive enough to think there’s no racism in this country, and certainly there are SOME Cubs fans who hate certain players because of their ethnicity and skin color, but I think we can all do without the blanket statement and generalizations

by WanderingWanderer on May 28, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

There’s a lot of personal attacks against some of these players I mentioned where the attacks on others focus on their play.

And there are a few here that tend to focus their attacks on certain players.

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by puckishcubsfan on May 28, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

The cubs fans have a history of it...

… not saying its relevant in this conversation, as Z’s behavoir is enough to turn some off no matter his ethnicity, but:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

hey!

don’t lump us blind ones into that.

by Allie on May 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

aw hell

i can’t reply today. darn.

by Allie on May 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, that didn't work...

… 2nd try: link

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're far too lenient on Big Z

In the post yesterday, you rightly called out Z for being a baby. Yes, the umpire could have done better – but given Zambrano’s reputation, would you expect anything less than a complete meltdown from him, if you were an umpire?

People like Zambrano and Bradley need to realize that yes, they’re going to get the short end of the stick on stuff. Umpires are people too – offend them enough and they’ll certainly remember it. Little angelic kids get away with a lot more than the true brats do.

by rencelas on May 28, 2009 9:15 AM CDT reply actions  

Z did act like a baby...

… AFTER Carlson’s bumping of him.

Neither person is totally blameless. But the umpire is supposed to be in control of the situation and calm it down, not make it worse.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

how can you calm an *adult* down in that situation when he doesn't want to calm down?

You can wake up a person who is sleeping but not one who is pretending to be sleeping. We should accept that Umpires have the final say on all the calls and most of the time they are right and being human sometimes they are wrong. If you don’t like that then replace umpires with technology. But if you want it the traditional way then you got to accept that umpires are also humans. Expressing your displeasure at a call is one thing and throwing wild tantrums is completely different be it Bradley, Z, Lou, Lilly or whoever. What other sport allows/condones you to climb fences and run into the playing area to throw a fit when you are not even in the starting lineup?

This is simply highly paid grown up athletes acting like unruly kids. For this same reason I think managers it BS to allow managers and coaches to run onto the field to argue calls.

by cubsnlinux on May 28, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

He’s not supposed to calm Z down, he’s supposed to calm the situation down by being in control and staying cool. Basically being the bigger person because his call will ultimately stand and that is his only job…to make the calls.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on May 28, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Correct!

If Carlson had walked AWAY from Z instead of toward him, maybe Lou or a coach could have kept Z out of harm’s way.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

or Z would have been bored

jumping up and down without an Ump in his face, result:

Z doesnt have a tirade to this escalated peak, and its not as big a deal now

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

and my comment

was what might happen if the ump was not in his face, not about what did happen with the ump in his face.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

its cool

no worries

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know

that I could expect an umpire to walk away, but they certainly shouldn’t approach the player. Z said his piece and was preparing to walk away when Carlson bumped him, which escalated the situation.

I think as long as the ump does not approach the player, or follow the player to the dugout after tossing him as some are want to do, the ump is helping gain control of the situation.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd agree with that.

Carlson did not have control yesterday.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Z also did not have control yesterday

The Ump failed in his duties of defusing the situation however it’s far too easy to simply blame the ump for his failures. At some point adults must take responsibility for their actions. I find it hard to believe that a player should be allowed to behave like a child and be held to a lower standard of responsibility than the umpire.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on May 28, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

they are to walk away

that is EXPECTED per their guidelines. they are not to be confrontational

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I read it

as they are just required to keep their own temper and self-control. IMO that doesn’t require walking away. I recall seeing a lot of umps walking away after tossing a player and I think that is the right thing to do, but I don’t think they have to walk away right away.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

They are?

I wouldn’t say the umpire was hostile or argumentative either.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

that's because

you can’t see the hand in front of your face that’s blocking your ability to see the video.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah,

I remember your argument that Bradley’s hat didn’t contact the ump’s hat. I posted a link to the video and it seemed to have no effect on you.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

the hats did contact

the difference is that you think Bradley made the contact happen, and the rest of us (bluemike excluded) know the truth.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

you can't blame me

for something I haven’t done, just like you can’t blame Bradley for instigating contact in his situation, when he didn’t.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

The ump didn't need to walk away, thought it would have been nice.

The ump should have stood his ground and not made any move at all toward Z. By getting closer to Zambrano, the ump escalated the situation and caused the intial contact. Z then made matters much worse by using his arm to clear space between Z and the ump.

I predict both will see some suspension.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 28, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Doubt it

MLB never seems to publicly reprimand their umpires.

by Allie on May 28, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

MLB does not "allow/condone"

climbing of fences and running onto the field to throw a fit. Lilly will be fined, as he should be, as are other players/managers that go overboard. The difference with MLB versus the other sports is that in the other sports, the players and coaches can argue with the refs without interrupting the play of the game. In the NBA and the NFL the refs are right next to the coaches or can be with little effort by the player/coach. In MLB, the only reason we notice is because the game is paused while the manager/player argues and the only thing to watch is the argument.

Have you ever seen replays in football where the coaches is laying into the ref on the sideline? It’s at least as bad as what Z did or Lou tends to do.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here's how I saw it

FROM THE TOP:

The ump is on one knee when he made the call (Correct position — correct call)

Z charges him while he’s still on his knee and is already in full rant — yelling, fists clenched, etc…

The ump stands up, which he has every right and reason to do. There is no way he can get control of the situation from his knees. He also can’t be expected to scoot away from the situation. (Although I guess some would expect that)

Z is arguing and the ump is pointing at the plate, a clear “He got the plate” gesture. (Again, the CORRECT call — funny how no one blames Z for not blocking the plate enough)

Z won’t let it go. Soto and Pinella are nowhere to be found.

The ump turns toward Z, but DOES NOT MAKE CONTACT. I can buy that he was hoping Z would touch him. It was unprofessional and immature by the ump, almost a “put your hand two inches from someone’s face to see if they will snap” routine.

Then Z fulfills everyone’s expectations by brushing the ump and he’s ejected. Lou and Soto just then appear in the video.

Z goes into his histronics, which I don’t believe for a second are premeditated. We’re not talking about someone who has shown a lot of control, folks.

Conclusion:

Z accelerated the situation, charged the ump and the ump did not have much of a chance to walk away. There is a fine line between walking away and backing down.

The ump, when he had the chance to walk away, did not.

Z behaved like a brat BEFORE AND AFTER the ejection.

10 games for Z, knocked down to 7 or 8.

Nothing for the ump except a private talking to and double-secret probation.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

You are definitely incorrect when you say the ump "DOES NOT MAKE CONTACT."

The replay from behind home plate shows the ump clearly brushes up against Carlos before Carlos gives him the shrug off gesture. Had the ump not touched him Z wouldn’t have shrugged him off. That’s why Z gave pointed at the ump and gave him the ejection sign. Z knew the ump touched him first which is why told him I’m ejecting you. The umpire clearly was following Z as Z was walking away when the contact was initiated, it should also be noted that the contact escalated the whole incident. The ump is as much to blame as Z.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 28, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's repeated that same

comment in almost every thread. I think he thinks if he repeats it oftern enough it will be the truth when it’s not.

by sue369 on May 28, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

We're also talking about a sport, Al

That suspended a player a measly five non-playoff games for spitting in an umpire’s face.

Baseball has NOT shown that it will protect umps in arguments. It has no interest in limiting idiocy from players and managers.

Back in the 80s, the umpire’s union head announced that there would be a no-tolerance policy for Billy Martin. He’d gone too far in an argument and was suspended some joke amount.

They were going to eject him the moment he stepped onto the field.

Baseball slapped it down.

DO NOT make this a one-sided change. You want umps to walk away? Fine.

Tell players and managers to do so as well.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 9:17 AM CDT reply actions  

A bit of perspective

The MLB has a fair share of its umpiring issues, but look at the NFL and NBA. In the NFL Ed Hoculi blew a call and forced a rule change, that call cost a team a win, which means an official was responsible for 1/16 of two teams seasons.

In the NBA the officiating continues to set all time lows. Everybody knows that David Stern has been ordering his officials to put certain teams in the finals, and in one case completley decide the finals. It is horrible again this season, last night the Lakers were probably given a few gift calls, the night before LeBron James was given calls that no other player would have gotten. I haven’t seen an umpire ignore a fastball down the middle for strike 3 just because Albert Pujols was batting.

The MLB umpiring can be improved, but if you look around there are leagues that are much worse off.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 28, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions  

You are right about that

despite our complaints, I think the MLB umps do the best job of all of the major sports’ officials, except maybe hockey, you never hear anything about hockey officials.

It seems like Stern is turning the NBA into the WWE, setting up matches and all.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hockey used to be horrible

until the league finally took a stand (in the rule book) about 3rd man in, leaving the bench and a significant suspension for stick-related incidents. Before that took place, individual refs’ thinking held too much of a variant from game to game and also from the beginning of a game to the end of a game. What also improved hockey’s calling of a game was the 2-ref system implemented more recently.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Very True

Although I love to complain about the 2-ref system whenever a call doesn’t go my team’s way.

by wallrock on May 28, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

They haven't mastered it quite yet

There’s a couple more – relatively minor IMO – rules changes that would make it better than it is today.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

sadly, I truly believe one reason you don't hear as much about hockey refs

is because it’s the least popular (ratings wise) of the four major sports. Less people see a ref screw up, there’s less complaining.

Every hockey game I’ve ever gone to, there has been a perceived “terrible call” by the crowd.

by WanderingWanderer on May 28, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

At least the NFL will publicly

talk about the officiating/rule changes.

MLB is hopelessly backwards on everything.

by Allie on May 28, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

but MLB is worlds ahead

in their blackoput policy

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trendsetters.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 28, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Umps are not to approach the argument with guns blazing

they are to defuse and walk away. Umps do not seem to understand that. Their egos are getting in the way of doing their job. MLB Umps need to remember they are there to be invisible and impartial, not to be the side show.

I agree Z was wrong, but so was the Ump, and BOTH should be suspended for their actions (if Z cannot touch the Ump, same goes with the Ump touching Z).

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 9:22 AM CDT reply actions  

How was the umpire wrong ?!?

He let Zambrano argue then rightfully tossed him from the game and turned away. It was the assclown immature baby Zambrano who took things to the next step. And it was Zambrano’s actions that led to the contact of the umpire as the umpire tried to point Zambrano off the field.

The umpire did nothing wrong in this circumstance.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

two things

1. he touched Z (they both touched each other once)
2. he went towards Z didnt back away, which he is to do per Umpire regulations

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not going to argue with you on this

When Zambrano is suspended for makign contact with the umpire you get back to me. The umpire was standing his ground and trying to diffuse the situation while Lou Piniella inexcusably sat in the background with a shit-eating grin on his face.

The umpire did nothing wrong and will be vindicated. You are wrong.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do you deny

That the umpire touched Zambrano?

by Old Style & Ivy on May 28, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

WATCH THE REPLAY

The reason why there was contact is because the ump bumped into Z. Stop making things up.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here we go again

The rules are explicit. A player may not come into physical contact with an umpire. When contact happens the player is always in the wrong. Zambrano did not back down and did not start heading off the field when the ump turned around to show him out. Zambrano is more guilty of the crime then Drew Peterson. And the suspension is a coming boys and girls.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

So let's see.

The umpire initiates the physical contact and it’s the player’s fault? How does that work?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al

I have posted a link below, which explains quite a bit about what is expected from an Ump. This is the same link I provided during the MB saga. BLou ignored it then, and will probably continue toignore it now. This link explain where (in both situations) the Ump was wrong.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Initiate: cause a process to occur

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

which, if you review the play

IMHO the UImp INITIATED the contact with Z

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

You don't think El Toro charging and screaming

a few inches away from the umps face caused anything? Initiate and initial are two different words. If you want to argue that initial contact was made by the umpire, I’ll agree, but I don’t agree that the ump initiated contact.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh c'mon.

There was no reason for the ump to bump into Z. Get real.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes and it's ridiculous.

Since when is it okay to escalate a situation by getting physical with a player?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Haha okay.

I must not understand what the reply but means.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

You are being thick headed

Sure, Z shouldn’t have thrown the initial fit.

No umpire, with a screaming pitcher 12 inches away should take TWO STEPS towards that person and nudge them with his shoulder. Duh.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on May 28, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

And that is a response to pointing out that Z charged him screaming how? Is it a response to the distinction between the words initiate and initial?

I guess you think that Z wasn’t charging and screaming.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Are we back in middle school?

Words are words, they don’t deserve a physical response. It’s pretty simple.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

sticks and stones

may break my bones, but names will never hurt me

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

So, uh...

are you saying initiate and initial don’t have different meanings? Or that Z never charged or screamed?

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Give it up.

The ump could stand there all he wants and scream back at him. There was NO REASON to bump Z. None. You are simply wrong on this.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why don't you respond

to what I wrote? Even worse, you make up something to attribute to me.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have responded.

You aren’t listening. Z started the argument (words), but that does not mean the ump should have escalated it to the next level by getting physical. What about that doesn’t make sense?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

no you haven't

I never attributed anything to the contact between the two. I talked about the different meanings of two words. I pointed out that Z charged the ump screaming.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

You said Z charging and screaming

caused the bump. You are WRONG. It’s not Z’s fault.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

You said

and I quote…

“don’t you think el toro charging and screaming a few inches away from the umps face caused anything?”

Case closed. Haha you’re a joke.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's roid rage for Mr Zambrano

"Chemistry is a class you take in high school or college, where you figure out two plus two is 10, or something."
- Dennis Rodman

by Shifty1 on May 28, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

glad you Dodger fans can appear

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

and the ump

couldnt step back, instead of forward? He should have stood there, let Z rant, then move on with the game (like Umps used to) instead of feeling the need to get iinto it with Z.

Again, Z is wrong, I am not arguing that point, but the Ump was out of line as well.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

The ump was on his knee and stood up

It’s hard to back down when you’re trying to stand up

Z was on top of him VERY fast and he was already in full lather.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

crap

he could have stepped back. He could have refused to engage. He didn’t. Instead, he stepped INTO Zambrano and initiated contact.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

he could have laid down, and made dirt angels

instead of moving towards Z

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

SAND CASTLES!

And on that note… I HAVE to get some work done today.. Adieu

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

only if there is a kid to run thru them and SWL can make a picture of it for us to enjoy

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

nice racist

name there.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Where?

El Toro is Z’s nickname.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right.

Not only that, he has “TORO 38” on his license plate.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Too quick to point

that’s not racist, it’s his nickname.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's BLou's

laws of motion. His petition finally was OK’d by the Nobel Peace Prize Committee and Sir Isaac Newton’s laws have now become illogical, defunct and completely impractical.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al...

It’s like officiating in basketball where a guy can move into someone to get a foul called on them.

Visit bloggingthebracket.com, SBNation's bracketology/hoops rambling site!

by Chris Dobbertean on May 28, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Different kind of sport, though...

… where there is a specific in-game penalty for doing something wrong. In baseball, it’s more of a judgment call.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Z is going to get suspended.

No one is arguing that. But you cannot deny that the contact was caused by the umpire leaning into Z. That is a fact and you cannot change that.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why?

I have trouble seeing why Z should be suspended. Fined for throwing the ball and his glove- yes but suspended – no. How about this – Z gets suspended long enough to miss a start and the umpire is suspended for the same number of games. Z because of his antics and the umpire for initiating contact. This sends the message to the players – “calm down and stop acting like pre-schoolers” and the umpires – “do not, DO NOT make contact with players.”

Al to ESPN on Opening Day: "Hey. Guys. PSST. The 100-year thing? We know. WE KNOW. WE FREAKING KNOW. Can you guys knock it off now?"

by CubSteve on May 28, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then that door should swing both ways.

Al to ESPN on Opening Day: "Hey. Guys. PSST. The 100-year thing? We know. WE KNOW. WE FREAKING KNOW. Can you guys knock it off now?"

by CubSteve on May 28, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure

Let me know when that happens.

by Allie on May 28, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awww, don't crush my dreams!

I also believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and honest politicians.

Al to ESPN on Opening Day: "Hey. Guys. PSST. The 100-year thing? We know. WE KNOW. WE FREAKING KNOW. Can you guys knock it off now?"

by CubSteve on May 28, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think you're wrong in principle

but the MLB isn’t going to operate with principles. I hope I’m wrong and you’re right.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Sorry that sounded so snarky.

I just don’t have a lot of faith in MLB to act with transparency.

by Allie on May 28, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sadly, I agree with you.

Baseball should be one of those pastimes that allow us to forget day-to-day issues. We have to deal with all kinds of daily stresses be it the idiot boss, wishing we had a job in order to complain about the idiot boss, school finals, paying the rent/mortgage, if the kids are going to land in jail, etc, etc. Baseball should be a place we can forget about those things for 2 1/2 hours (or 3 1/2 hours in the AL). Sadly we end up stressing about how many games the ace of the staff will be suspended because he may or may not have bumped an umpire who may or may not have initiated contact.
Makes me wish for the days when my sons played T-ball and the biggest thing we worried about was DQ or TCBY after the game.

Al to ESPN on Opening Day: "Hey. Guys. PSST. The 100-year thing? We know. WE KNOW. WE FREAKING KNOW. Can you guys knock it off now?"

by CubSteve on May 28, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Under your description of the rules

an ump could punch a player and it is the player’s fault. That is ridiculous.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wrong.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

So, by your logic, all the umpires have to do is make contact with a player, then the player is immediately ejected. Don’t try to wiggle out of it, you said it very clearly. To quote, “when contact happens the player is always in the wrong.”

Stop with the inane analogies, to bring a man accused of murdering his third wife, and suspected in the disappearance of his fourth wife, into the conversation is juvenile at best, inflammatory at its worst. As is calling all of us boys and girls. I hazard a guess that you are younger than many on this site, and we don’t need you to “explain” things to us as if we are ignorant children.

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on May 28, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

from what I have gathered (reading, seeing replays, etc)

the Ump initiated contact once and Z did so once, they BOTH are wrong and BOTH should be suspended for making contact.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree Z should be suspended.

But not for the contact.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn't work that way Timmy

Acquaint yourself with the major league rulebook.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cite?

What part of the rulebook is he missing?

by Old Style & Ivy on May 28, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Knucklehead

I have posted the umpire rules before (which, as usual, you neglected to read) and will give you the nlink again. Take some time, actually read something (other than your opinion) and you will see that there are standards that the Ump (both in MB and now with Z) didnt meet.

Here are just some

http://baseballumpires.com/dspdocs.cfm?docid=1

1. Get the call right!

If you have to sell the call, then you probably didn’t get the call right. I don’t like hearing from association presidents “if all else fails, sell the call.” It is better to stop and discuss the situation with your partner, and even get the rule book out if necessary, and ultimately get the call right, then to decide something on the fly and have it come back to bite you in the end. Our job as umpires is to be the final authority during a baseball game, and that requires for you to get the call correct at all costs. Use your keys of understanding the rules, correct positioning and proper mechanics to put you in the best frame of mind and best position to make the call and to get it right.

2. Competitiveness

Accept the fact the every player is giving their maximum effort, you should too. Being lazy will let the game slip away from you. As an umpire you have to be willing to call the first pitch of the game the same way you call the last pitch of the game. If you don’t your going to be in trouble. Realize that every pitch means something to someone on that field, and it should be important to you also. That 0-2 pitch, in the bottom of the fifth inning, that is low and outside may mean you get to go home if you call it a strike, but it may be the only at bat this player gets all month long. If you call a strike because you want to go home, you have done yourself and those players a disservice, you should have found somebody else to do the game for you. That pitch is important to that player, and it should be important to you.

3. Every blue shirt doesn’t come with a license for respect

Just because you wear an umpire uniform doesn’t mean you deserve respect. You don’t deserve anything until you earn it. If you walk onto the field with the attitude that no matter what you call you are always right, then you do deserve something. You deserve to have that manager stapled to back riding you the entire game. Earn your respect with confidence, your knowledge of the rule, correct positioning, and proper mechanics.

4. Don’t be afraid to answer questions

Answer all reasonable questions with reasonable answers. If a manager has a reasonable question, then tell him why you made the call the way you did. Don’t allow a manager to use this chew on you, but use it as a tool to diffuse a situation and regain the confidence of players and managers. Remember, if you don’t give a reasonable answer your not going to get a reasonable response.

5. Don’t be the judge, jury and executioner

Your job is to umpire the game, not to pass judgment on individuals. Some players may not be the most outstanding of individuals, but don’t let that distract you from what your job is. Accept the players for what they are, baseball players, and do your job, umpire the game. Control the game as necessary, and never pass judgment on players.

6. Most importantly, leave the game on the field!

Once the last strike is called, leave the baseball game on the field. Use the situations that happened during the game to make you a better umpire by going back and reading your rule book or asking another umpire, but that is as far as it goes. Managers that ate you up during that game are just regular people outside the diamond, as are you. Don’t let a situation that occurred during the game relive itself somewhere else. Decide how the situation could have been handled better, learn from it, and let it go.

If you as an umpire can combine all these elements into your job, that is when you are a professional. We all have fell short at one time or another during a baseball game, but use those situations and these keys to continually improve as an umpire, and each time you walk onto the field think of yourself as a professional and your job as an umpire will become one that continually is filled with satisfaction.

and here is more details for what an Ump should do

GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS TO UMPIRES
Umpires, on the field, should not indulge in conversation with players. Keep out of the coaching box and do not talk to the coach on duty.
Keep your uniform in good condition. Be active and alert on the field.
Be courteous, always, to club officials; avoid visiting in club offices and thoughtless familiarity with officers or employees of contesting clubs. When you enter a ball park your sole duty is to umpire a ball game as the representative of baseball.
Do not allow criticism to keep you from studying out bad situations that may lead to protested games. Carry your rule book. It is better to consult the rules and hold up the game 10 minutes to decide a knotty problem than to have a game thrown out on protest and replayed.
Keep the game moving. A ball game is often helped by energetic and earnest work of the umpires.
You are the only official representative of baseball on the ball field. It is often a trying position which requires the exercise of much patience and good judgment, but do not forget that the first essential in working out of a bad situation is to keep your own temper and self-control.
You no doubt are going to make mistakes, but never attempt to "even up" after having made one. Make all decisions as you see them and forget which is the home or visiting club.
Keep your eye everlastingly on the ball while it is in play. It is more vital to know just where a fly ball fell, or a thrown ball finished up, than whether or not a runner missed a base. Do not call the plays too quickly, or turn away too fast when a fielder is throwing to complete a double play. Watch out for dropped balls after you have called a man out.
Do not come running with your arm up or down, denoting "out" or "safe." Wait until the play is completed before making any arm motion.
Each umpire team should work out a simple set of signals, so the proper umpire can always right a manifestly wrong decision when convinced he has made an error. If sure you got the play correctly, do not be stampeded by players’ appeals to "ask the other man." If not sure, ask one of your associates. Do not carry this to extremes, be alert and get your own plays. But remember! The first requisite is to get decisions correctly. If in doubt don’t hesitate to consult your associate. Umpire dignity is important but never as important as "being right."
A most important rule for umpires is always "BE IN POSITION TO SEE EVERY PLAY." Even though your decision may be 100 percent right, players still question it if they feel you were not in a spot to see the play clearly and definitely. Finally, be courteous, impartial and firm, and so compel respect from all.

And this link I was refered to by an Ump with over 20 years experience in NCAA who happens to be a family friend. He has Umped games in MInor Leagues. So, I will take his word over yours, since he ACTUALLY is an umpire.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

PAGING BLOU...PAGING BLOU

you said

It doesn’t work that way Timmy Acquaint yourself with the major league rulebook.

now you ignore the details posted….where are you

(crickets, crickets)

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I read it

where is the part where the ump is supposed to retreat in the face of a psychotic player?

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

as I said below

not sure he should have stood his ground
based on this

You are the only official representative of baseball on the ball field. It is often a trying position which requires the exercise of much patience and good judgment, but do not forget that the first essential in working out of a bad situation is to keep your own temper and self-control.

I didnt see this ump keeping his own temper and self control (not saying Z did either). meaning that if the Ump is being hot headed he NEEDS to back off, and be NON-CONFRONTATIONAL, instead of INSTIGATING and causing the situation to further escalate

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well at least now you're saying "not sure"

The umpire didn’t lose his temper or self-control. The ump wasn’t hot-headed. Z instigated a confrontation. The ump really did nothing initially. You’re absolutely dreaming if you think that will all be interpreted as the umpire should walk somewhere else while Z is acting psychotically.

Let’s say that umpires began acting submissively like you want. How long do you think Z’s rant would go on? How long should umps have let Lilly lecture? If Bradley acted like he did and the umpire just walked somewhere else, do you think he might do it more often?

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

you toss em

let them throw their fit, move forward. that worked for how many years?

Iand i said i am not sure the ump should ahve stood his ground based on the quoted text. if the ump cannot control his temper, he should not be there to begin with. it is written into the code for umps to go by for this exact reason.

again, the link and information I base my view about this on most of all is an Ump I know personally in NCAA who has 20+ years experience. I take his opinion about something like this over anyone else here for one simple reason, he is an Ump, we are second guessers about such an incident.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

First, you’re not moving forward. There is no telling what will happen or how long it will go on if the authority figure acts submissively. And the ump didn’t lose his temper. I’m not even sure where that’s coming from. It reminds me of Drew saying that the ump was charging and Z was retreating.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

watch the video

except it won’t help. You simply refuse to see it.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I did

I was the one who dug up the video of the second view of Bradley and you refused to acknowledge that.

Am I reading you correctly that the video shows the umpire losing his temper?

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

the video

clearly shows the umpire leaning into Z. Just like the Bradley video clearly shows the umpire turning into Bradley’.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

so you are more knowledgable

and know more about umping, vs an ump with 20+ years of experience?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Have the guy post here

I’m sure there are plenty of umpires with more experience who will agree with the umpire in the game. Does that trump your umpire if they have more service time?

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm just waiting...

… until a Brewer gets into a situation like this and you try to defend his actions.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

You'll wait a long time

Prince got raped by Wendell what’s his name and I have no problem with his suspension.

Not the same, but I find some of their post-K actions extremely objectionable. Throwing your bat and helmet is bad and I suspect it has stopped because of Macha, The thing I find really bad is hollering the F word at the top of your lungs. I hope Macha told Hall, never do that again or you’ll sit out a few games.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

it won't matter anyway, Al

Pete will say what he wants, and anyone who argues will get banned from the other BCB.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

You really are on a roll. Some day you should have a top ten “Drewisms.”

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

do you deny

that people who disagree with you get banned from the other BCB? Because there’s a WHOLE PASSEL of people here who will argue that with you, troll

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

I emphatically and with complete confidence argue that you are completely and totally wrong.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

and with that

whatever small shreds of credibility you might have had are whisked away in the breeze.

See ya, troll.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am not saying he is the end all

but that his experience and knowledge of being in similar situations trumps your opinion. You seem hellbent on making the Ump out to be a victim here, which is not close to true. Z was wrong, sure. But the Ump DID NOT handle it correct (and this seems to be a trend thru MLB).

Did you go to the Tigers site and justify the Ump and his actions towards Maggs as well?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll bet the ump handled it

how the MLB wants them to. The idea that umps should act submissively and allow extended theatrics is no doubt explicitly contradicted by the instructions they receive. They have to control situations with fruit loops like Z and guys like Bradley who choked his pregnant wife.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

the Ump put his hand on Maggs

unwarranted and pushed him out of the batter box. You skipped that question all together. Did you go the Tigers site defending the Ump there as well?

The Umps have gotten too big for their own good. Their actions are just as guilty as the players at times (which should NEVER happen if they are to remain impartial).

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

and in response to this
If Bradley acted like he did and the umpire just walked somewhere else, do you think he might do it more often?

what happens when you ignore a kid throwing a fit? they cry themselves to sleep…….same basic concept could work here. they throw a fit, and if no one pays attention, the fits start to disappear

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

3, 4, and 5

are excellent and it appears many umps are disregarding those instructions

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

and 6

too many times the play in a game carries over to another series (like the “rep against MB” with umps)

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

very true

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hence this post by Al

The Umps seem to think we’re there to watch them.

Ump incite players all the time. They posture knowing they have the upper hand. Its high time one of them pays the price.

But like I mentioned before, nothing will happen until there’s a “serious” incident.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe this one...

… where video pretty clearly shows Carlson making first contact, and Z’s reaction is clearly, “You bumped me so you can file a report suspending me”, will be the trigger for changes.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry...

…but BLou’s account of yesterdays events are MUCH more accurate than the ACTUAL video.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Apparently so.

:-)

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I say let BLou

be the judge, jury and executioner on all problems in MLB

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

specially when managers

don’t protect their pitching coaches

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on May 28, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Watch out

the wild claims about Milton Bradley turned out to be false when the video was examined. You can get all excited about a slight movement by the umpire, but it really doesn’t prove much. Z flipped out.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I dont think anyone here is saying Z

acted in a proper manner, it is more how the Ump handled the situation that is in question. Z threw a fit, no doubt, and that was not professional of him.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think very few people here

believe Z won’t be suspended for a number of games. But most of us are fearing that the umpire will not receive any sort of punishment. If what Z did is wrong, how is the umpire not also responsible? That seems to be what we are debating here.

by madcow256 on May 28, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

that is my argument with Ol Pete

the Ump was in the wrong as well and both should be punished accordingly.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Further evidenced by the Magglio incident. Even though the ump didn’t touch him in a hostile way, nothing came of it. The ump in that game was completely in the wrong, as was the ump yesterday (Z was in the wrong too, don;t get me wrong).

Imagine what would happen if an ump came to the Cubs dugout to argue with Lou, and afterwards looked pushed him back towards the plate like the Magglio incident. Instant fine and suspension.

What most are saying here is that Z is at fault too, but this is a good example of how the umps are stpping out of their bounds and not being punished for it.

When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch. -Ty Cobb

by SotoRiot on May 28, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes Z flipped

but he was incited IMO. In my world of hockey, the ump should get 2 for institgating and a 10-minute misconduct penalty….at thirteen twenty (time of this post).

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not only are you

wrong but you must be blind too.

by sue369 on May 28, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

what part of

defusing and non-confrontational includes barking in someones face in an obvious heated argument?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed, but that phrase does not say walk away.

The ump at worst should have stood his ground.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 28, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

not sure he should have stood his ground

based on this

You are the only official representative of baseball on the ball field. It is often a trying position which requires the exercise of much patience and good judgment, but do not forget that the first essential in working out of a bad situation is to keep your own temper and self-control.

I didnt see this ump keeping his own temper and self control (not saying Z did either)

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

The ump definitely didn't keep his own temper and self-control

but, keeping your temper and self-control doesn’t necessarily require the ump to walk away, IMO.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say he did

He didn’t lose his temper and I find the argument that he lost control a stretch as well.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say compared to the ump in MB's case...

…this ump kept his self-control pretty well.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

compared to that

sure, but that isn’t the standard

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

The umpire didn't get in Z's face...

…even after he tossed him and then Z “tossed” him (w/ a ball in the same hand he was pointing with, no less).

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I read it and standing his ground does not

have to involve arguing back. Standing stoic and letting the situation diffuse would have been the appropriate choice. At that point if Z bumps him its on Z.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 28, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

old school umps

used to stand there, arms crossed, and almost laugh at the arguing player/coach. today the ump seems to believe it should look more like a WWE scream-a-thon before a PPV Main Event

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Umpire response should not be insulted by the arguing and stay out of things. Players/Managers disagree, the rules even mention that mistakes will be made. If the player/manager reaction is over the top, toss ’em.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 28, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right, I remember that, too.

I remember the umps standing there impassively and I remember them turning away.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was before

The league let players spit in their faces

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

You go to games to cheer the umpires. We go to cheer the Cubs.

One incident and yes it was handled wrong but its been about 14 years (I remember it was the mid 90s forgot what year).

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by puckishcubsfan on May 28, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

i remember

when umps walked away, as well as when umps would cross their arms listen to the barking without barking back

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep.

So do I.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep... they used to

And then Robbie Alomar happened.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

absolutely not

umps walked away all the time. And Roberto Alomar is ONE instance, and if the umps don’t like the decision MLB made, they should take it up with Bud, not take it out on the players.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Look on Youtube

for the video of Earl Weaver arguing. Yes, the ump does confront Earl, but then strolls around the infield. Yes, he was talking back to Earl, but I believe that Earl was calmer than he would have been had the ump been in his face. And remember, if an ump would get in anybody’s face, it would be Weaver’s, as he had a reputation for arguing. I believe that ump handled the situation correctly.

Not safe for work, btw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-4FSRYagc&feature=PlayList&p=A95FA10DC11CB783&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=5

When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch. -Ty Cobb

by SotoRiot on May 28, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stop using facts

Especially against Blou who clearly lied over and over again yesterday and said Z threw a ball into the stands which was very irresponsible and they knew a lot of people during weekday games only have it on the radio or even follow it in the game threads or online.

Blou and Worf root for the Cubs to lose when Z starts because of their deep seated hatred of him.

Same kind of so called Bear fans who rooted against the Bears when Grossman started (even in the NFC title game in 07 he was booed during the postgame by some fans)

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by puckishcubsfan on May 28, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Better than it used to be

While Al has a valid point, I think overall, MLB umpiring is way better than it was just a few years ago. I see umps seeking help from the other umpires more frequently than they used to. Questec has obviously improved ball/strike calling (remember Eric Gregg in the 1997 World Series?) and the umps are in better physical condition, with a few exceptions. I even think there is less “escalation” than there used to be, although there have been a few high-profile exceptions, most involving Milton Bradley, it seems. So, while I think the umps could do better at walking away, things are way better than they used to be with umpires overall.

by raisin1 on May 28, 2009 9:24 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

correction

It was the 1997 NLCS when Eric Gregg gave Livan Hernandez half the batters box as a strike zone.

by raisin1 on May 28, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Zambrano

is our paisano. Blou may call him an assclown, but he’s our assclown. Baseball season is long; every time he plays, he entertains with his arm, bat, hustle, and passion. Sure, he overreacted, not a big surprise. Can we win with a whole team of Big Zs? Probably not. Does he make every season more interesting and entertaining w/ his antics and ability? Yes. Watching him eject the ump was hilarious. The throwing and bashing, not so much.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on May 28, 2009 9:24 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Luvable Loser syndrome all over again

Hey, we’re at Wrigley for the colorful entertainment value of Zambrano !!! This is just like those sickening days of the one-man carnival act Sam-ME Steroid who used to blow kisses and bunny hop in the batter box !!!!

Pass the barf bag. I hope and pray someday that the Chicago Cubs and some of their fans will be exorcised all this bullcrap that perpetuates the Luvable Loser syndrome across baseball.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sammy Sosa

was one of the best players to ever wear a Cubs uniform, and if you think otherwise you don’t know baseball.

by Old Style & Ivy on May 28, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Your honor, I submit this as Exhibit A in my case

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Explain to me if you will

How Sammy Sosa’s “antics,” which included hitting 40-60 home runs a year on teams with very few other decent offensive players, hurt the team.

Oh wise and great baseball God BLou, I am giving you the chance to educate me. Please, please, don’t let me wander in the darkness of my unenlightened Cubbie Kool-Aid drinking any longer.

by Old Style & Ivy on May 28, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Your honor, I submit this as Exhibit B in my case and will now move directly to closing arguments

Sammy Sosa was poster child for steroids. Sammy Sosa used a corked bat. Sammy Sosa was widely despised by the majority of his Cub teammates. Sammy Sosa walked out on his teammates in 2004. Sammy Sosa was a one-man carnival act who played for the TV cameras and himself.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sammy Sosa

Also was a key part of the team that got closer to the world series than any Cubs team since I was born.

I don’t care about corked bats or steroids or any of that crap. You do. I just care about seeing Cubs teams that are good at baseball, and Sammy was unquestionably that.

Which one of us wants to see “luvable losers?” The one arguing against the greatest Cubs hitter of a generation, or the one arguing for?

by Old Style & Ivy on May 28, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

or figure skaters

Katarina Witt….

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Corked bat BS again?

I believe it was a screw up, for two reasons

1. had a big C on the top of it (duh moment)
2. No other bat was found with cork

Does that mean it is right that it hapapned, no but guess what (just like everyone else in the world) that was a mistake, and I believe was an honest mistake. Atleast he also stepped forward and accepted fault and explained it, and did so quick enough that I do not see how a story could have been written for him to memorize about it (he was on ESPN talking about it and saying sorry BEFORE the game ws over for Gods sake).

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

So you never cheered any of his HR's right?

Yeah, right. The Tribune Co. built the monster, we fed it.

The problem with this whole thing – in hockey terms, which work best for me – is the ump gets 2 for instigating and a 10-minute misconduct. These clowns know Z is high strung, but like Al quoted in his post about the umps decorum, they simply do not always follow it, and of most importance, they look for a fight.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Blou

I wish you were a more loveable loser.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on May 28, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Me too

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Blou

is simply a loser

"I still don't know what happened"- Fergie Jenkins on '69

by tommy veryzer on May 28, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zambrano initiated the contact

He gave him a “come on, man” bump like you’d give a buddy you’re arguing with. The ump had nothing to do with it.

by Ryan D on May 28, 2009 9:31 AM CDT reply actions  

No...

Watch the video.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on May 28, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Umps

I agree with Al all the way. I think the umps have been more aggressive over the last two or three years. I live in NW Wisconsin so I see a lot of Brewer games and the announcers have noticed it and commentated on it also. It’s not just the Cubs.

by Jasely on May 28, 2009 9:39 AM CDT reply actions  

This blowup was

as planned as Lou’s last year…..

watch Lou’s facial expression as he is coming out of the dugout…he wanted this to happen by someone other than him…..lets see how the next 10 games shape out..

by cozmotaylor123 on May 28, 2009 9:39 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't see it...

Z “planned” this? Come on. You think he’s thinking “okay, if there’s a close play at the plate, I’m going to get tossed”?

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Probably not but...

…..I do think he thought “well I’m already tossed, let’s get my moneys worth. This team needs a kick in the ass.”

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

it if wasnt this play it would have been another one

Just look at Lou’s face during the video…..he couldn’t care less Z was blowing up..

by cozmotaylor123 on May 28, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Lou's reaction was more....

…“I can’t believe he got tossed before I could even get out there…” Not caring? That’s a stretch.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

MLB umpires should watch

a couple soccer games where players question a ref’s call at least 30 times a game. Very rarely do you see a ref even acknowledge the players argument. His call is his call, end of story. If such is the case in baseball, why not walk away and let the player make a damn fool himself. By simply taking one step back, you put it all in the players hands as to how the rest of the tantrum is going to go. Even basketball ref’s use the technical foul and very rarely do you see a ref stand in the players face after calling a T or a second T on him. It’s just insane that something so simple can’t be addressed by MLB.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on May 28, 2009 9:41 AM CDT reply actions  

MLB could benefit from ayellow/red card

system like soccer utilizes.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 28, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Contact would not have happened if Lou Piniella intervened like any good manager should have

Instead he stood in the background with a shit inning grin and let the situation escalate to the point that he will now be without his workhorse starting pitcher for one or two starts. Which puts even more pressure on a wretched bullpen situation. And what would have happened if the pyschopath Zambrano hauled off and slugged the umpire?!? Zambrano could be sitting in a jail cell right now.

So yeah, Lou Piniella is squarely to share in the blame. And if I am Larry Rothschild I tell Lou Piniella to pound sand for not getting himself involved and also putting his pitching coach in sigifnicant harm’s way.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 28, 2009 9:42 AM CDT reply actions  

Lou stopped caring a while ago

He’s just enjoying his time sitting in the dugout dreaming of his post game margarita. Something switched in Lou’s mind these last few weeks and he just isn’t the same guy.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 28, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not all true

I agree about the drink part right now. But to think he won’t blow a head gasket any time this season is going out too far on a limb.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

He doesn’t even stalk around the dugout in anger anymore. We are dealing with a new Lou, and I don’t like it.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 28, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

I still think he kicks a few butts

behind the scenes when there’s no reporters around and the clubhouse is closed.

It’s a matter of time before it comes out to the field/dugout.

BTW, nice sig…..

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Slugging the umpire?!?!?!?!?!?

You are ridiculous. What on earth have you been smoking this morning?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 28, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lol...

He’s out of his damn mind.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on May 28, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not Lou Piniella's job

to keep the umpire from bumping Carlos Zambrano. The umpire is supposed to know to not initiate contact.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Wrong. The situation happened so fast that no manager had time to get out there before the ump initiated contact with Z. You act as if Lou and Larry don’t have a long history in MLB, I am sure they have seen much worse than yesterday. Just for the record, you are not Larry Rothschild, (thank goodness).

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on May 28, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

This argument is ridiculous. Fun to read, but some of the points made are completely asinine. Keep it up for my work entertainment. Thank you

This is starting to remind me of the “Zambrano shouldn’t run hard after a hit because it’s not his job” BS

by chiavsfan on May 28, 2009 9:48 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Maybe the ump leaned into him, maybe it was "incidental" contact....

 …..but he was no where near as aggressive as the ump in Bradley’s case.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 9:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Which is why...

… the rule mandating suspension for ANY contact is ridiculous. Each situation should be examined on its own merits.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agree....

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

The sad part in all this...

What’s really sad about this is we should be talking about Reed Johnson’s heroics in the field and at bat, as well 2 of our call ups making significant contributions to give the Cubs a win. But instead Big Z is the story.

Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go!
Hey Chicago what do you say,
The Cubs are gonna win today!

by revtrh on May 28, 2009 10:03 AM CDT reply actions  

Wait....

we won yesterday?

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

the ump

is the story.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is a post about umps

So we should be talking about umps.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by jkobus on May 28, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Excellent post, Al, and kudos for tact in a potentially divisive situation

Looking at all of the factors at play, here’s how I see things.

Z should miss a start. That said, I personally think that his “antics” are part of something larger that immensely helps the team – passion – and a couple of suspensions here and there will not hurt. Better to have z pitching most of the time when he does care than all of the time when he doesn’t. That said, MLB has every right to discipline Z for that outburst, contact or not – but anything more than 10 days would be ridiculous (5-7 seems about right)

The Ump should be disciplined. He is clearly part of a big problem for MLB that is just as destructive (more?) than Z’s outburst. He did go “looking for trouble” in that incident and had several opportunities to disengage rather than bair. He chose not to, plain and simple.

Regarding the poster “BLOU” – He’s a hardened Cubs fan who cares about this team just as much as big Z. Cut him some slack, and if you don’t like what he says, um… don’t respond to him and bait him (that’s what I do). If you do like what he says and want him to say more, then keep doing what your doing and reply to everything he says to engage him.

by DisCUBbobulated on May 28, 2009 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

How to confront an umpire

Ok I admit my baseball view is often six degrees of Greg Maddux but I think he had one of the all time best “confrontations” with an umpire. I was once able to post the actual link here but of MLB had it removed. 2 years ago in a nationally televised game against the Braves he was clearly unhappy with our favorite umpire C.B Bucknor who was shall we say calling a rather small strike zone. While Maddux’s displeasure was evident on the mound he is far too smart to pick a fight with an ump ( in the old days he had Bobby Cox to do that for him) . When he came to bat the mike ( which I am sure he did not realize was picking it up for broadcast) caught Maddux’s “discussion” with Bucknor. Maddux says " I am just not a good pitcher anymore" Bucknor says " Huh ? " and Maddux tells him " I just can’t throw four strikes anymore" . That’s it . The guys in the booth crack up and Bucknor looks annoyed. Again I wish I had the think because it was very funny to watch.
The point is Maddux had enough control and smarts to get a dig in at the umpire without in any way giving the ump an excuse to get angry and eject him. More players should try this.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on May 28, 2009 10:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Maddux is/was a much different player

from, well, EVERYONE. He was special, and I doubt we seen anyone like him for a long time.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

And he was 100 times the pitcher

Zambrano can ever dream of being

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

he is 100 times the pitcher

most the league has been and will be for years to come

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

slippery slope

Umpires should walk away when a player is throwing a tantrum about a call that he didn’t like (and one that it doesn’t seem like anyone here is saying was wrong)? While I agree that each situation should be looked at separately – calling for a suspension the ump in this case seems to be an attempt to make that a precedent for contact made when an ump doesn’t walk away – what if the player follows him? Should he start running?

by doofus cubs guy on May 28, 2009 10:29 AM CDT reply actions  

the ump

created the situation. He should have been impassive and unemotional and let Z do all the yelling and gesturing.

Not bumping a player first.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

they are both wrong

the difference is Z will be punished and it will be known what he did wrong, and what his punishment it for it. The Ump, puinished or not, will never be said to have been wrong, and if punished will not be made public knowledge. This will continue to draw the problems about it

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Give me your home address

I’ll come and stand two inches from your face and bark at you. See how impassive and emotional you are.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you cant walk away

From someone barking insults or anything at you, then Im sorry but you are a very confrontational person. It really isnt hard to just say “well this is stupid” and walk away

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by jkobus on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

you'd be surprised

what I can or cannot take.

However, it’s irrelevant. IT IS NOT MY JOB TO BE IMPASSIVE OR UNEMOTIONAL.

It IS the Umpires’ job.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Those Umps...

…need to stop listening to that evil 90’s rap music before a game. Junk like Tupac, NWA, etc… needs to go man. It’s ruining the mind of our umpires.

by TheHawkRules on May 28, 2009 10:36 AM CDT reply actions  

Umpires

Baseball probably should have some kinda of updated meeting… reminding umps of the performance of their jobs…especially in this area. I just don’t think the Chicago Cubs are going to be able to “change” anything. The thing we need to worry about is to make sure this doesn’t escalate any further. We don’t need a full-blown Umps vs. Cubs battle because we won’t win. We need to chill toward the umps… and concentrate on just winning. If we don’t, the season of ’09 will be labeled as the season the “umps messed us over” and that is nothing more than an excuse NOT to win.

my opinion

by TheHawkRules on May 28, 2009 10:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Those are good still pics.

However, the comments from Bruce Weber on that link are interesting. He’s got a new book out about umpiring. I have been meaning to get it — maybe now is a good time.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

The pics do show that

Carlson initiated the contact, but I agree Z’s retailitory shove, even if it was to clear personal space, will cause a suspension.

Both are in the wrong and should be dealt with.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 28, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Weber's comments...
UPDATE: I asked my friend Bruce Weber of the New York Times to reply to this post and this incident. Weber went through umpire school and spent two years interviewing umps at all levels as well as umping some games himself for his recent book “As They See `Em — A Fan’s Travels in the Land of Umpires.” He wrote:

Oh, for pete’s sake. Still pictures, like statistics, can prove anything you want them to, but if you actually watch the videotape, it’s pretty apparent that at the very least, after the initial and entirely inconsequential contact, Zambrano gave the umpire, Mark Carlson a little shove.


But that isn’t even the point. Because of a close call at the plate, because the umpire simply did his job, the pitcher completely lost his cool the way a child does when he doesn’t get his way, exposing the umpire to humiliation just the way a child does to his mother when he explodes in a supermarket aisle.


Was it entertaining? Yes.


Is this kind of behavior part of the game, at least by tradition?

Absolutely. I don’t object to it. I even like it. But Zambrano deserved to get tossed. Carlson handled the situation entirely properly.

That’s what I’m struggling with….was the contact by the ump inconsequential? I keep comparing his actions to the actions of the ump vs. Bradley, and am not seeing the umpire do much wrong. But maybe that’s the wrong way to look at it.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

If you go by the Bradley ruling

it doesn’t matter. Contact is contact.

by redward on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not arguing contact by our players....

because obviously they both made it. I’m arguing if the ump initiated it. Not going to change the penalty, just curious to see.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bingo

The ump did his job. He did it perfectly. Proper angle, right call, went against the “easy and obvious” call.

And Zambrano, who failed twice on the play — he made the wild pitch AND didn’t block the plate — acted like an idiot.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

and then

the ump broke ALL THE RULES by bumping Z.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

please

bumping – (from Bruce Weber above) the initial and entirely inconsequential contact,

by doofus cubs guy on May 28, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

doesn't matter

if the rule is no contact, then the rule is NO CONTACT. That rule applies to the umps just as much as it applies to the players. If you’re going to suspend Milton Bradley for a game because of two cap-bills brushing, you MUST suspend this umpire for a quite intentional bump.

Furthermore, it’s quite clear that the umpire was TRYING to get Z to bump him so that he could throw Z out. Go back to the video capture, and you can see that.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm thinking it's not so black and white...

…on the umpire “trying” to get Z to bump him. Hard to tell.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

If Z gets suspended for contact because “contact is contact”, I can see that, and fully understand that because that is the rule. He did touch the ump. But when an ump does the same, even if it is meant in a non hostile manner (see Magglio case), he should be suspended too. Remember, contact is contact.

When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch. -Ty Cobb

by SotoRiot on May 28, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Worf...

Were / are you an umpire?

I am trying to understand why you continually defend this umpire. As mentioned below – the majority of people here think BOTH Z and the ump were in the wrong. Z absolutely over-reacted and could hurt the team if he misses a start.

“The ump did his job. He did it perfectly.” Nope. He initiated contact. Get over it.

by 10 14 23 26 on May 28, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

He gets kickbacks from the umps union

for his generous annual donations.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

Thanks for posting this. In a long thread, this is definitely worth reading.

Let’s add this, though. There was a context to the whole blow up that goes back to the umpire going to the press and calling Lilly a liar. He didn’t wait until they had left town to “correct the record.” He didn’t even need to “correct the record.” There was bad blood between the Cubs and this crew and this crew perpetuated it while they were still working the games.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

good call

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Let's take the ump at his word.

Let’s say Lilly really did lie in the press about what happened between him and the umpire. I think the best thing for the ump to do is let it go. If it’s really bothering him, the next best thing to do is to wait until he leaves town and then correct the record.

The umps all know that the Cubs are on record multiple times complaining about how they are being treated. There’s no reason to respond to players, giving them the impression that things aren’t square.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

rec'd as well

good read

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on May 28, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

The comments are interesting,

but I disagree with Bruce Weber. The ump initiated contact and he should be suspended. The contact isn’t “inconsequential” under the rules and it wasn’t viewed as “inconsequential” when Bradley recently had inadvertent hat brim contact with an ump. It’s natural for Bruce to side with the umps after spending two years with them, but come on . . .

by dfrancon on May 28, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

good stuff

And I stand by my prediction that MLB will side step the contact issue and fine Z for the ball throwing and related histrionics.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree...

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

yep.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ol Pete

Please tell me, do you truly feel that the Ump in this incident (as well as the one with MB and Maggs) that the Umps involved followed the following

3. Every blue shirt doesn’t come with a license for respect

Just because you wear an umpire uniform doesn’t mean you deserve respect. You don’t deserve anything until you earn it. If you walk onto the field with the attitude that no matter what you call you are always right, then you do deserve something. You deserve to have that manager stapled to back riding you the entire game. Earn your respect with confidence, your knowledge of the rule, correct positioning, and proper mechanics.

4. Don’t be afraid to answer questions

Answer all reasonable questions with reasonable answers. If a manager has a reasonable question, then tell him why you made the call the way you did. Don’t allow a manager to use this chew on you, but use it as a tool to diffuse a situation and regain the confidence of players and managers. Remember, if you don’t give a reasonable answer your not going to get a reasonable response.

5. Don’t be the judge, jury and executioner

Your job is to umpire the game, not to pass judgment on individuals. Some players may not be the most outstanding of individuals, but don’t let that distract you from what your job is. Accept the players for what they are, baseball players, and do your job, umpire the game. Control the game as necessary, and never pass judgment on players.

6. Most importantly, leave the game on the field!

Once the last strike is called, leave the baseball game on the field. Use the situations that happened during the game to make you a better umpire by going back and reading your rule book or asking another umpire, but that is as far as it goes. Managers that ate you up during that game are just regular people outside the diamond, as are you. Don’t let a situation that occurred during the game relive itself somewhere else. Decide how the situation could have been handled better, learn from it, and let it go.

If you as an umpire can combine all these elements into your job, that is when you are a professional. We all have fell short at one time or another during a baseball game, but use those situations and these keys to continually improve as an umpire, and each time you walk onto the field think of yourself as a professional and your job as an umpire will become one that continually is filled with satisfaction.

as well as this

You are the only official representative of baseball on the ball field. It is often a trying position which requires the exercise of much patience and good judgment, but do not forget that the first essential in working out of a bad situation is to keep your own temper and self-control.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:07 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm just happy I can now cut and paste and print...

..and have a copy of the umpires rulebook for my very own.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

since the above does not support your argument in favor of the Ump

you decline comment?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

You posted the same stuff and we had some dialogue after that

Posting some long passages and asking a question again that we already talked about is confusing. The above does not support your argument.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

it directly supports

what the Ump is to do, vs. your argument, basically making the ump out to be a victim.

again, did the ump in each of the three situations practive the above guidelines, or did the ump(s) not do so, opening themselves up to such debates, and cries for the Umps to be reviewed as well as punished for such incidents.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

You just go ahead and cut and paste some phrases

Putting sections that don’t seem responsive doesn’t help.

I guess someone could argue that it supports your argument, but in no way does it “directly” support your argument or else you could just cite a rule or phrase rather than pasting large generic discussions. I’m not sure what the 3 situations are you’re referring to. Other than the Detroit incident, the idea that umpires should be punished for doing what they are most likely required to do is silly.

by ol Pete on May 28, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

you have commented here on two of the three

MB and the Ump
Z and the Ump
Maggs and the Ump

You are so full of it, saying

I’m not sure what the 3 situations are you’re referring to.

seeing as I start me comment with

Ol Pete Please tell me, do you truly feel that the Ump in this incident (as well as the one with MB and Maggs) that the Umps involved followed the following

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

between her upper and Lous gut

they make a nice ying yang

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

ew

Lou’s face makes him look like a friggen zombie…

by TheHawkRules on May 28, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh you people.

Sorry but Z’s outburst was awesome. Sports is entertainment – this won’t materially hurt the team in any way, and meanwhile it was entertaining as hell. Sports is entertainment after all.

by Wreckard on May 28, 2009 11:27 AM CDT reply actions  

You're right ...

…. if you just see the incident in isolation.

But because of the way these things are adjudicated, this MAY wind up hurting the team if Z is suspended.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Assuming it's more than 5 games, sure.

That just doesn’t seem likely. Worst case, he gets suspended, appeals, and drops his appeal during a week with a day off so that all that happens is he starts on 6 days rest instead of 5.

Best case, he draws some attention to the seriously unprofessional manner in which the umpires have been acting and gets one of them suspended. As much as people love to tell Bradley to “shut up” when claiming bias, I don’t see how anyone who’s been watching the Cubs this season can claim otherwise. Maybe it’s a vicious cycle started by the Cubs bitching too much about bad Cubs, but something needs to break the cycle and maybe this is it. Both sides get scolded, admit they were wrong, and kiss and make up.

by Wreckard on May 28, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kurkjian thinks he'll get 10 games

Heard him on mike & MIKE this morning.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Worf

are you a retired umpire? perhaps a current beer league and/or little league umpire? The reason I ask is you seem so intent on proving that the Umpire had nothing to do with that situation at all, when in fact he walked/bumped into Z rather than walking away at any point.

by CubsFan87 on May 28, 2009 11:35 AM CDT reply actions  

No, he just

likes confrontation and to bait people.

by sue369 on May 28, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Call was right!

But the ump was wrong for bumping into Z

by Ditka,Sausage,Bears on May 28, 2009 11:45 AM CDT reply actions  

the umpire

is not allowed to make contact with the player. That’s just as much a rule as the player is not allowed to make contact with the ump.

This is “all about” how the rules should be applied equally and fairly.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Drew,

I know there is a rule that a player cannot contact the ump, but is it written the ump can’t have any contact with the player?

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 28, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can't find one

I thought Tim had linked to it at one point. FWIW, when I looked at teh Umpiring section of the MLB Rules on MLB.com, I didn’t see ANYTHING about touching, either way.

However:

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/yell-but-dont-touch/
http://bases.newsvine.com/news/2009/05/14/2816503-umpire-paul-schrieber-should-be-suspended?category=sports
blank">http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/11746268/rss

All seem to make the case that the touching rule goes both ways.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

the call was right

and the ump and Z were both wrong for their actions that followed

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

Let me add on #5 – to be an impartial judge, i.e. to be an umpire, means letting things go ASAP, forgiving, forgetting and moving on to just calling it like you see it. That’s part of why I didn’t like the ump calling out Lilly while still in town.

Sean Marshall is a good starter.

by DGU on May 28, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

One of them is at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.

Ah, another former CME employee. :D

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

well said

and #5, I am a boll collector, you can add my profession to that list

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

bill collector

not a typist as you can tell :=)

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your lunch tomorrow...

Given how misguided and off-base you are is probably going to be crow. That’s just a guess. I’d say you get it at least twice a week.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 28, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Umpiring

Is a difficult job. I used to umpire. An ideal umpire has a thick skin and deaf ears. Many more times than not, the umpire gets the call right.

I have had Tiger season tickets. Not so much because I am a Tiger fan, but because I am a baseball fan. So when there is a call that is not favorable to the home team, I take a more dispassionate look at the call. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I do not.

The problem is that recently some umpires, not all, seem to feel that people are paying to see them. Some umpires do appear to go out of their way to antagonize players and or managers. Some umpires have very short fuses, e.g. Joe West or Bob Davidson, who will eject players who dare question their authority.

An umpire, in some case cases, can diffuse a situation by walking away. If Carlson walks away yesterday, Lou may get there before the situation gets worse. But today, umpires do not walk away, they stand there and argue. Think back years ago. Players and managers have argued for years. But how many times, in the old films, do you see the umpire screaming or arguing nose to nose with a player or manager, unless it was Earl Weaver.

Yes, umpires are the representative of MLB. Sometimes they have to be the better man and walk away from an argument.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)

by cubfred on May 28, 2009 11:52 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I disagree that nose-to-nose arguments are a recent phenomenon

We always remember Earl Weaver first and foremost because he would turn his hat backwards to get as close to the ump as possible, which made for high-comedy. But there was also Billy Martin. And I doubt Cub fans have forgotten Leo Durocher. Even Stengel, who we remember as more of a clown, had a reputation for going crazy during arguments. Stengel learned from John McGraw, who, until recently, held the all-time record for times ejected. In the bad old days of the early 20th century, there were lots of examples of arguments escalating into fist-fights. Sure, Connie Mack was the consummate gentleman, but he was the exception rather than the rule.

Moreover, there have always been showboating, flamboyant umpires. Does anyone else remember Dutch Rennert screaming “hee-yah” at the top of his lungs for a called strike? Bill Klem, who’s in the Hall of Fame, was notorious for ejecting players simply for calling him by a seemingly innocuous nickname, “Catfish.”

The umpires, players, and managers are not behaving any worse than they ever have. Rather, what’s changing is our perception of their behavior. As a result of the information available to us via cable TV and the internet, fans and the media are scutinizing actions on the field more closely than ever before. Thirty years ago you’d have to wait around to watch a brief highlight of Earl Weaver’s antics on the evening news whereas, today, you can see it three times on ESPN, review it for yourself a dozen times on youtube, and then argue about it with other fans on sites like this. What’s changing is our standards and if we’re less tolerant of grown men acting like spoiled children, so much the better, even if some entertainment value is lost in the process.

"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko

by LaddieRenfroe on May 28, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

cards fan here, but i love zambrano's antics

big z knew exactly what he was doing. it worked. the cubbies picked up a win and we move on. he shouldn’t be suspended but deserved to be thrown out.

that umpires have turned into massive, attention-loving jerks is at most tangential to the circumstances.

i hope the small bears right the ship and make the central more interesting. anyone but the brewers.

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on May 28, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.

You’re alright Cards fan.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on May 28, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

With all this arguing over Z

Don’t forget this guy has overseen one of the best stretches of baseball in Cubs history.

Since 2003 he has gone 94-53 with a 3.42 ERA and the Cubs have been above .500 all but two seasons. 2005 we were barely below .500. In only one of his full seasons as a Cub has the team truly been awful.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 28, 2009 12:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Plus IIRC

his record in ’06 was quite good for a team 30 games under .500.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

16-7 33 Starts, made ASG and won Silver Slugger in 2006

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=407296

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 28, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I LOVE that the used that photo...

… we talked yesterday about Lou’s bemused face. Hilarity.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love the look in his face

that’s the “wish I thought of that” face.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 28, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth

I’m listening to the Red Sox-Twins game and the home plate umpire has ejected both starting catchers and both managers in the last inning. It sounded like the Twins catcher made some contact, but I don’t think the other three did; they were just arguing. Umpires seem to have an itchy trigger finger of late.

"You know, you should be a lot more careful crossing the street like that, otherwise you could die - if that bothers you."

by gauchodirk on May 28, 2009 2:29 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm watching that game on EI.

If Redmond made contact with the umpire, it was completely incidental and minor. The rule mandating ejection/suspension for ANY contact MUST be changed to reflect the situation and common sense.

Even the Red Sox announcers on NESN felt that the umpire blew the call.

BTW, it was Mark Wegner, the guy who Lou got into the tirade with two years ago.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you sure?

The Red Sox radio guy said that it was Todd Tichenor, who they said was young and presumably new.

I agree fully with the above posts saying that umpires don’t seem to be willing to listen to players/managers argue for very long. In the NFL, the side judge has to deal with coaches barking in his ear all game long.

"You know, you should be a lot more careful crossing the street like that, otherwise you could die - if that bothers you."

by gauchodirk on May 28, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Confirming myself

The box score indicates that Tichenor did the ejecting; Wegner isn’t even working this series.

"You know, you should be a lot more careful crossing the street like that, otherwise you could die - if that bothers you."

by gauchodirk on May 28, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right.

I thought I saw #47 on one of the umpire sleeves; that would have been Wegner.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also, gaucho...

… check your email. I sent you a question to which I could use a quick response.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 28, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

So we're almost on target for Lou to launch

a tirade. It was like June 2nd, right? IIRC the fight was Fri the 1st, Lou’s rant the 2nd (they lost both games to the Braves). The 3rd they won in a blow out and I only remember that all because Monday the 4th, we had a large group tailgate in Milw to see the Cubs come from behind.

So…we’re only a few days away from Lou’s 2nd yr anniversary of what many people thought took pressure off the players, put all the attention on Lou and the Cubs began their comeback from some 7-8 games behind in the “L” column.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 28, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wait a minute...

I’m not going to argue Z’s behavior yesterday. I couldn’t tell from the video I saw whether Z or the ump was more to blame for any contact (though I think suggesting that the ump deliberately initiated contact so he could later ask for a suspension is a bit strong; unless you’re clairvoyant).

But, if you want the umps to use restraint and common sense, isn’t bringing up the Ordonez incident the opposite of that? I mean, the ump shouldn’t have done what he did, as he admitted, but that was about as non-aggressive and innocuous a touch as I’ve ever seen. Suggesting that that incident serves as an example of how the umps are out of control is pretty ridiculous, in my opinion. I’ve seen umps follow retreating players back to the dugouts to continue arguments, which I think is out of line, but the Ordonez incident isn’t even in the top ten incidents I’d refer to if you’re trying to present evidence of bad umpire behavior.

That said, I always enjoy watching a good Leyland explosion… though he still isn’t as good at it as Earl Weaver was. Not even Lou can match Weaver’s tantrums.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 28, 2009 3:51 PM CDT reply actions  

Union

I wonder if it’s time for the player’s union to make some noise.

I hear all the time how the players should be examples for little leaguers and them being role models (personally when dealing with this I tell my kids sometimes people do dumb things and they are wrong to do them) but what about the umps setting the standard for little league umps to follow?

My brothers and my husband all umped little league in college. If they behaved like Carlson they would have gotten fired.

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by puckishcubsfan on May 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT reply actions  

And can we say this has gotten ridiculous

Someone actually compared him to Michael Dog Killer Vick?

People saying he aimed his bats at Rothschild?

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by puckishcubsfan on May 28, 2009 4:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Z just got suspended 6 games

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on May 28, 2009 4:21 PM CDT reply actions  

Now comes the mandatory appeal

that’ll take a week, he’ll start and then sit and he gets pushed back a day for a start.

by Allie on May 28, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fanshot...

here.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

And that's exactly why I merely submitted a comment

Cause we don’t need 5 fanshots made in 2 minutes on one topic.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on May 28, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't make the fanshot. I just linked to it.

And i did that because i kind of sort of hoped all the post-suspension announcement conversation would end up there, instead of spread across this Al post and multiple other fanposts.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Plus, i think our "ace" pitcher getting suspended is worthy of greater attention than a comment buried 600 deep in an hours old post.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 28, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, that makes worst case 1 start.

This could be much worse.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 28, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

No appeal planned

just be done with it. Before BLou jumps on it again and it becomes murder II

"I still don't know what happened"- Fergie Jenkins on '69

by tommy veryzer on May 28, 2009 5:12 PM CDT reply actions  

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