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Is Lou Piniella Losing It? Cubs' 2-1 Loss To Dodgers Gives Clues

What's going through Lou's head?

More photos » by Nam Y Huh - AP

What's going through Lou's head?

Lou Piniella will be 66 years old in August and this is his 22nd year as a major league manager. Many of us who have followed his career remember his base-throwing tirade and his physical attack on one of his players (Rob Dibble) while he was managing the Reds.

Now he just seems tired and, at times, out of it. He's joked about having "senior moments", but in the course of managing a major league season for a team that purports to be a contender, you can't really do this and there seem to be more and more of these occasions.

Last night, Lou changed his mind about a pinch-hitter in the eighth inning and it denied him flexibility in the ninth, perhaps costing the Cubs the game. Koyie Hill had been announced as a PH for Aaron Heilman, then called back. Plate umpire Mark Wegner told Lou that Hill had officially been in the game. That meant that, with Mike Fontenot and Andres Blanco already out of the game, and Kosuke Fukudome, who batted in Hill's place, having walked, the only remaining position player was Micah Hoffpauir.

Hoffpauir could have been sent up to pinch-hit for Jake Fox in the ninth inning with the bases loaded (kudos due to Milton Bradley for his outstanding bunt single) and two out, but had Hoffpauir sent the game into extra innings, he would have had to go to left field and Alfonso Soriano to second base. That would have either meant Bobby Scales would have had to shift to third, or Fox would have remained at third. Either way, the way this team is constructed gives it very little flexibility in late-inning situations. (And did Lou forget about the possible Hoffpauir-Soriano switch? If so, he missed the chance to put the lefty Hoffpauir up to bat vs. Ramon Troncoso instead of Fox.)

Personally, I wasn't unhappy to see Jake Fox, who had already singled as a pinch-hitter in the 8th inning, at bat in the last of the 9th. Fox made the only defensive play he was asked to at third base, handling a grounder from Matt Kemp and attempting to start a double play, which might have been completed if Russell Martin hadn't tackled Bobby Scales attempting to make the relay (Kemp, who runs well, probably would have beat the throw anyway).

Look, I happen to like Lou and what he did for the Cubs in 2007 and 2008 -- the mindset of the major league team seemed to completely change from what we had known for decades, and the 97-win regular season result in 2008 was a season we hadn't seen in more than 70 years. But we have discussed here many times Lou's obsession with "making the team more lefthanded" because of his feeling that was the reason the Cubs lost the NLDS to the Dodgers. In so doing he and Jim Hendry also made the team less flexible, and it showed last night. Lou didn't attend the postgame press conference last night, either. I won't speculate on his reasons for that.

What more can be said? (And I don't have more to say about Carlos Zambrano's six-game suspension, either; all it does is push back his next start by two days.) The Dodgers are a good team and manufactured two runs early off Randy Wells, who had his fourth straight good outing and held on for a 2-1 win over the Cubs. All the Cubs can do is come out this afternoon -- the sun is out in Chicago at last, hooray! -- and try to even the series.

And I would expect to see more of Jake Fox at third base.

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Soriano...

Could use a day off. Your money players HAVE to deliver and he is not right now. Maybe an afternoon off would help. Not much more to say other than timely hitting is obsolete right now. They should have won this game. Too many left on base. Too many double plays.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 29, 2009 8:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Soriano is unclutch....

I dont know what else to say about him. I love the guy, and i think he has turned the corner big time this year, but he still cannot hit in the clutch.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 29, 2009 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His AB in the 8th was brutal...

took strike one on a fake bunt and then swings at 2 sliders low and away. With guys on 1st and 2nd with none out, you have to do better than that.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 29, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

That is the same swing we see in the playoffs too. And i really think he has done a better job this season of taking more pitches, but really when he gets in those need to do situations, that strikezone gets bigger and bigger for the pitcher. And clearly, the scouting reports show that.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 29, 2009 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right...

seems like the more intense the AB the more pressure he puts on himself, the more free his swing is. He’s not the confident hitter we see in the earlier innings with no one on… and I’m not putting this loss on him but your big guns have to deliver in those spots. I really felt they were going to win the game last night. Almost, like last year, just waiting for it… but this is a totally different team and feel. When you have the winning runs on with none and one outs in the 8th and 9th, how could you not feel like they were going pull it off?

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 29, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont remember...

But i think out of 4 chances we put the ball in play once in the 8th and 9th (during scoring chances), and that one time was a double play. That is stuff that cannot happen, and too me that is a case of putting pressure on yourself and not trusting it.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 29, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2wice...

Riot’s dp in the 8th and RJ’s groundout in the 9th that moved MB and Lee into scoring position but yeah, you can’t do that… and inexperience, also came into play.

As hot as Fox has been, it kinda sucked to have Scales and Fox hit back to back with the game on the line.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 29, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes that definitely didnt help...

But hopefully those guys take it as learning experiences, and not downers for them.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 29, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Higgy, don't you believe

the book on Soriano is hard sliders starting in the zone?

It seems pitchers who can execute this pitch own Soriano. I believe it’s time for Lou and the coaching team to help Soriano identify the guys who can hammer him so he’s watching for it.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

100%.

Honestly it blows my mind that pitchers “make mistakes” with fastballs over the plate to Soriano.

The pitch Soriano struck out on last night, was a good 6-7 inches outside, and terribly low. If you can throw that pitch consistently you got him dead.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 29, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, I believe any pitcher putting any fastball over

the plate to Soriano has made a mistake.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if we all know slider in the dirt is coming

why doesn’t he….put the bat on the shoulder for a few pitches.

by cozmotaylor123 on May 29, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL,

but it’s probably more wishful thinking. While looking fastball and wanting fastball, I’m guessing he doesn’t pick up the movement as quickly as some others.

Tough for me to be critical as at my age I’d have to start the bat around before the pitcher released, but then again, the Cubs don’t pay me to hit.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1000

heh. I had to do that in HS, let alone now!

by thermal54 on May 29, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree...

And the thing i liked abuot Soriano this year, is it seems he is taking more and more pitches, well at least seeing more pitches in his leadoff at bats, which is great.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 29, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree about that AB.

Alfonso seems to go through stretches during which he has the mental focus to lay off that pitch and stretches where he simply cannot. When he’s going through a bad stretch, he appears to be a very easy out.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh What?

Do Soriano’s numerous eighth and ninth inning clutch hits over the last three years need to be listed? He is probably our second best clutch hitter.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would say....

That the playoffs are a good measure of clutch hitting…?

The two trips to the playoffs for the Cubs that he has been a part of, Soriano batted, .143 and .071 with a OPS of .343, and .143. ZERO HRs, ZERO RBIs.

That is not clutch hitting.

(i know who you are thinking for clutch hitting as number one, i would tell you dont even look at his numbers for the playoffs either). Dont get me wrong i agree that he is our most clutch hitter as well, but when it comes playoff time these guys dont get it done, thus why we are 0-6 the past 2 years.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 29, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Without Soriano we never would have been in the playoffs

I don’t even get upset about Soriano’s struggles because he will come back and have a monster month.

Don’t worry about Soriano because next week we will all be bowing to his greatness after a 15-20 4 HR week.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hold on.....

I dont want you to be confused, i like Soriano, i am not a basher of him or anything like that. I just dont think he is as clutch as we would like him to be. I really would rather Ramirez (obviously), or Bradley at the play in clutch situations, over Soriano. And i think Soriano (read my posts from above), has revamped some of his approaches at the plate this season, which in turn will limit his streakiness. But i just think he puts WAY too much pressure on himself in those key sitations, thus swinging at many balls instead of taking the walk. A mistake from a pitcher is more likely to come when you make him work for the out.

Talk to annoying Yankee fans about Soriano, they hated him because he could not get in done in the playoffs, not sure if that is true, but that is what they say.

Getting to the playoffs is great, but at some point you have to do something with that, or else you will turn into the 10 year Atlanta Braves run.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 29, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok I get what your saying

Obviously Aramis is the ideal hitter when we need a big hit. I think the playoff thing gets placed on Soriano unfairly. Aramis didn’t hit for crap in the playoffs either.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sure he will

and that’s why this team can’t win the big one- TOO STREAKY. that streakiness, some months hot, some months cold, is what epitomizes this team….and ensure this team will never win the big one. SO WHAT if Soriano has a 20 RBI week next week- the ONLY thing that matters is October, and he’s never gotten it done there. And based on how he approaches his clutch ABs, it’s likely he never will.

by reedjohnson on May 29, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My guess from watching is that Soriano

can be clutch, unless he’s facing a right handed pitcher with the hard slider described above.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano...

… is a notorious streak hitter, and you never know when one of his streaks is going to start.

It could easily be today.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 29, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

8th inning

Two on and nobody out.

It took 4 pitches to get 3 outs. The ninth was exciting but that stretch with the top of the order killed us.

by Spydey on May 29, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe hypnosis therapy

followed by a massage with a happy ending will relieve the stress & solve Soriano’s unclutch batting behavior.

by JFCubFan on May 29, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok I like Lou as well

and I am not about to start a fire Lou campaign, but….

you cannot discredit how much a change could benefit the Cubs right now. Dont believe me, ask the Hawks how having Coach Q take over worked for them.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 29, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

it could, but it could also create a more chaotic atmosphere

allowing players to give up on the season, so to speak. For some reason, I don’t see Alan Trammell lighting a fire under this group any more than Lou has.

Yes, it worked for the Hawks, but for every Joe Quinneville, there’s a Bruce Kimm (though those situations are very different).

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on May 29, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand

and if a change is made, it would need to be from the outside IMO, Brenley would be the closest to the team I would consider, tho i would rather someone who has no connects with the current team or staff to keep personal feelings and personal ffriendships out of the situation.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 29, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Id love to see Trammel get a shot

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 29, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he will, the question isn't whether he will get another managment spot, it's

whether he will be a good fit for the Cubs when he’s needed. That said, I don’t believe his chance will come this year unless Lou walks away.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't have a problem with Brenly

I think he could ruffle some feathers, and that would be a good thing. Plus, he’s been around the team and probably has a decent idea as to the team’s personality. I would worry about someone who is completely unconnected coming in, just from a continuity stand point.

But as the same time, Trammel may be too close to the situation to manage effectively. Which is why I think Brenly is a good fit – he’s close enough, yet removed enough at the same time.

Though, all of this is just speculation, as I don’t think Lou is going anywhere this year. At the end of the year, maybe, but not now.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on May 29, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou is not going anywhere

you’re right Trey. This season is reminding me of the first year Lou was on board. We have done so much juggling of lineups, rosters and pitching that I feel once Aram comes back things will settle into place. I think there will be some players long gone. I think there will be a new face someplace. I think Lou is causing enough commotion that once things settle into place we’ll play ball close to last year. The big concern I have this year is the race with 3 other teams. We may dig too deep of a hole to get out after the all star break.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on May 29, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wells

has been extremely impressive. Such a bummer that we have wasted so many quality starts from him. Big game today. Go Cubs.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on May 29, 2009 8:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

reminds me of when we got Harden last season

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 29, 2009 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on May 29, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Got my first chance to watch him last night

He looks real good. Very good control (mostly) and kept the ball down. Looks like he has a hard sinker and a good slider that needs some work. If he can keep up his control, he’ll be a real asset. If he works on that slider, he could be a fine pitcher.

by dr stabbingworth on May 29, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A bunt single that gets...

into the outfield is just inexcusable to me. What a terrible defensive job that was.

by kanderber on May 29, 2009 8:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 29, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I replayed and watched that play and couldn't tell if it was a bad jump or if

he was just out of position for that hard bunt. On the other hand, I thought I heard Brenly comment that Furcal loves to use that hard bunt to get on base.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fontenot looked lost on that play

I wonder how Fox would’ve handled it.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on May 29, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather not think about it.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't get to the game, but watched every pitch

through the magic of DVR and watched innings 8 & 9 live.

Coming on the heels of the losing streak, this was a game possibly won and the loss is even harder.

However, if the team was over .500 over the last 15 games, I’m not certain a managment miscue would be such an issue. Len and Bob believed that Lou never signaled to the umpire that Hill was the next batter and the umpire had not signaled Hill was officially in the game and the announcer jumped the gun with Hill’s announcement.

The loss sucked, but I saw a great pitching performance out of Wells, saw that Fox’s bat made the trip with him, saw Bobby Scales tell BLou to stuff it with a great HR, DLee hitting the ball, a great at bat by Dome, etc. If that’s how they lose, I’m not leaping off any ledge just yet.

Additionally, I thought Fox’s throw to second was hung Scales in the air allowing for a big delay and time for Martin to roll and take him out long after the slide.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 8:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think

It was Fox’s throw that allowed Scales to get taken out. It seemed like Scales took an extra step before attempting to throw to first, and that was just enough time to let Martin take him out. At least, that’s what the replay looked like.

by hmlee on May 29, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al, I would agree that we probably will

see more of Jake Fox, which is fine by me because Fontenot is clearly not an everyday player. Until Ramirez gets healthy this team needs to hope the Cardinals and Brewers stay within their sights because they definitely miss him him in their line-up.

by cubdreamer on May 29, 2009 8:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's not about Fontenot being an everyday player...

…it’s about him being an everyday second baseman. And we still haven’t seen that because he keeps getting stuck at third base. I don’t necessarily blame Lou for putting LBR at third last night seeing as how Scales was still recovering from the flu (though he ended up playing in the field anyway).

At this point, I guess it’s looking likely that we will see Jake Fox at third base. That, quite frankly, chills me to the bone; but it’s not like Scales is a defensive whiz at the position either. Pray, Cubs fans, that Jake can learn to lay off the low-and-away breaking ball that he struck out on to end the game last night. Because that’s his only hope for making up for the defensive carnage we’re likely to see from him. The month of June should be reallly, really interesting.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why was Fontenot in there against Randy Wolf anyway? Wolf's numbers against

lefties are really nasty. Fontenot had no chance against him last night. Why does Blanco bat left-handed against lefties? Isn’t he a pinch-hitter. Those were for wasted outs. Couple that with Sori and Theriot and you can see why they only scored one run.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blanco

Turns out, he had a shoulder injury last year and still has difficulty hitting from the right.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by jkobus on May 29, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I just read that too. He was lost at the plate against Wolf.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which suddenly makes Scales that much more important...

as he’s now the only RH option at 2B (excluding the extreme scenario of Soriano).

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My only guess is...

…Scales didn’t feel up to starting because of his illness, and Lou didn’t want to give Fox a start at third. I would also echo and commend Bob Brenly’s question/comment about why the hell Fox wasn’t playing third base everyday in Iowa the moment word came down about Aramis’ injury.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One word as to why

FREEL!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, our stopgap third baseman has stopped playing.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, that answers the question as to why he didn't

play third after Freel was acquired, but doesn’t answer why he didn’t play in the gap between the injury and the Freel trade.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

Freel was/is a doorstop at best. He could’ve bought the organization more time to at least get Fox some live-game reps at the third base position. I’m honestly not sure how much difference it would have made, but it couldn’t have hurt.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I think you're dead-on

I’m just saying I think Hendry put too much stock in Fontenot/Freel and hoped Fox wouldn’t be necessary.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Kind of reminds me of when DLee went down with his broken wrist. The organization was kind of shell-shocked and never really recovered that year. When the team loses a big gun to injury, they seem to act like they want something to fall into their lap. You really can’t behave that way. When you lose someome like Ramirez, you need a definite plan. You can’t just hope the other players will pick up the slack. He carries too big of a load to react that way.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, I remember that, too.

It took them forever to pick up Phil Nevin (IIRC) and, by the time they did, the damage was already done.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was it Nevin?

Since that whole season is a big blank in my memory bank, I really can’t remember who covered 1B. All I remember is [Redacted due to System-wide ban on his name] playing SS.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on May 29, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, they picked up Nevin in '06 to, presumably, provide some offense in DLee's absence.

He didn’t play 1B, though. Just outfield and one game at catcher.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He started 33 games at 1B for the Cubs...

That’s actually where he played the majority of his starts as a Cub.

He just was too little, too late. That team had a number of problems – losing DLee just happened to be one of them.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

D'oh - you're right.

Completely misread his baseball-reference page. I should’ve trusted my own memory.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wikipedia says

Nevin just got hired to manage the Orange County Flyers in the Independent League out there. Good for him.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's a Grade A USDA Certified Asshole.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 29, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OKAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL - that's definitely his rep.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's earned it.

I have several friends that live in Poway where Nevin lives. He was nothing but a rude, arrogant asshole to everyone he can into contact with. ESPECIALLY when it came to the little league his son played in.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 29, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nevin was here...

He wasn’t horrid, though.

67 games — 12 HR/33 RBI

.274/.335/.497

Got him from the Rangers for the immortal Jerry Hairston and traded him to the Twins for Adam Harben… who HAS no page on baseball reference.com

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, OK

Adam Harben was DFA’d in September 2008 and is now in the Mariners system. He has never made it past AA..

Had a 4-9 record for the Twins AA team with a 3.96 ERA when we got him.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that was a good deal for the Cubs...

The problem was that we had so many other problems – most notably the starting pitching, which never had more than two remotely acceptable starters at any one time.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So the Pirates leave town and our offense goes away

Why am I not surprised. Though I loved seeing Bobby Scales get his homer and third(?) hit of the 5 BLou asked for.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 8:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ITS GONNA HAPPEN.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on May 29, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou

97 wins from a lefty deficient lineup….that should tell you enough that when you get older, you are often more set in your ways which alone can be detrimental to the team.

I too was proud of the work Lou did the last two years (though I didn’t like his ‘07 tirade and prefer even-keel managers and players, and was pulling for Girardi to get hired), but if there is any truth to the fact that he hated his time in Tampa bc the Rays were ’too young,’ well that doesn’t jive with me either.

Though, he’s our horse and we’ll obviously have to ride him through the rest of the year so here’s hoping he produces more common-sense game calling the rest of the way

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on May 29, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

It eventually catches up to you.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 29, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou is mentally checked out IMO

Its not just the lack of anger, its the mental lapses. I’ve said before and I’ll say again, Lou saw the crappy bullpen and decided that instead of getting angry he just won’t use anyone besides Marmol and Guzman. Then Aramis got hurt and I think Lou’s good managing took a two month vacation with Aramis.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 8:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe we should just let him drink in the dugout

Give him his margartia and let Trammel and Rothschild manage the team.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amazing how Fox ...

is good enough to think of playing at 3b in majors, but not good enough for the minors. I think the senior moments you speak of are not limited to Lou, the defensive preparation to get Fox major league ready was an organization-wide senior moment.

Also, where is Trammel on these in-game moves? Shouldn’t he be looking ahead and helping to antidcipate these scenarios?

by BatCubFan on May 29, 2009 8:45 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1000

Makes no sense he was not playing 3B down there

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 29, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brenley talked about this on AM1000...

He couldn’t figure out why the minute Ram got hurt why Fox wasn’t playing 3rd in AAA. Seems like a no brainer to everyone except management.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 29, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

That was the place for him to get reps.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Love the fact Brenley brought it up

Bob rocks.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 29, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Figuratively...

And literally.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on May 29, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

As soon as Aramis went down he should have been playing third everyday in the minors.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In any case...

… put him out there. How bad could it be? We need his bat.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 29, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the place to audition for the MLB job is not at Wrigley.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not

but that’s the corner the Cubs backed themselves into.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on May 29, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I know.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

On "the obsession"

This is getting tiring for me, the label that Lou was obsessed with making the line-up more left handed. Well if its an obsession its shared by every other manager and GM in the game. Almost every team has some focus on a lefty/righty balance in their line-up. It may not be strictly L-R-L-R down the line-up, but every GM focuses on having some balance in their line-up. The Cubs were so righty dominant that Lou felt he needed his team to have this balance and their performance both in the playoffs and over the regular season against really good pitchers and bullpens confirmed this.

So if you want to take Lou to task, take every other GM to task.

by dmlichte on May 29, 2009 8:48 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

True

What I found amusing was the press from the call up of Andres Blanco touted him being a switch hitter. Last night while facing a lefty, he took the at bat from the left side. Turns out, he had a shoulder injury last year and still has difficulty hitting from the right.

Looks like a lefty to me.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He batted his 1st AB as a righty v. Pitt,

then switched and has taken every AB as a lefty no matter who was on the mound.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 29, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know.

Hope he didn’t tweak in in that at bat.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the info on the shoulder injury.

I was wondering why a guy listed as a switch-hitter was batting only lefthanded. But I’ll bet Lou likes that.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 29, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can hear Lou now:

“ONLY LEFTY?…..” “perfect”

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point is...

… that management apparently felt the reason they lost the NLDS was the lack of LH hitters. That’s not why they lost to the Dodgers — they lost because the Dodgers pitched well and the Cubs were not properly mentally prepared.

In ripping apart a 97-win team the Cubs now have a less flexible bench. Great, so they have some LH hitters. How’s that worked out so far?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 29, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but it wasn't just the playoffs

The Cubs over the last several years have really struggled against certain types of pitchers. They also, even during their offensive output last year, have problems driving in runs, leaving a LOT of guys stranded.

I guess my point is that you can disagree with the assessment that the lefties were not the issue, however there was a reason for Lou and Jim to believe that it was. I happen to agree with them, many in the baseball media did, as do all the other GMs who have lefty/righty balance in their line-up.

by dmlichte on May 29, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soooo....

Management thought that bringing in Left-Handed bat would prevent the following:

Soriano batting .071
Aramis batting .182
DLee batting .545 (solid performance there – but what is a lefty gonna get that higher?)
DeRosa batting .333 (no longer with the team).

I just dont understand how a lefty changes that. Clearly we see the problem. Our two biggest hitters struggled last year. The only lefty that was available that would have made a difference was Texeria (who i wanted the Cubs to get – but obviously they were not).

I am with you Al, i am really not sure why they ripped apart a 97-win team. Personally i think they gave up on Fukudome too quickly, statistically other than ichiro, Japan players have a rough first year. I think the Bradley signing was one of protection just incase Fuku did not come to form.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 29, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

some of the changes

were just for the sake of making changes it seemed

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 29, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

first off...

… i don’t think that management thinks anything will change Alfonso.

But beyond that, yup, I think management expected adding a lefty would help and here’s how. First off, it makes a starter work to both sides of the plate. They can’t settle in and pound righty. It also makes the other team go through their pen instead of having one or two righties work the last few innings.

by dmlichte on May 29, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The obsession..

Do we really have to have a LH backup hitting catcher? The obsession came not from Bradley, but, Miles, Gathright, Hoff and Hill. All LH.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 29, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Role players

We’re not privy to the conversations regarding who wanted whom… You make a point about Hill, however he has been a nice addition. Aside from him, though, the other guys were role players who Hendry has always had interest in. I don’t see these guys being a part of the left handed conspiracy that tore apart the 2008 Cubs, they were role players that were added.

by dmlichte on May 29, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

just talkiing about the obsession.

Did it come from Lou or Jim, yes you’re right, we don’t know. I do like Hill but Hank White was signed for the same amount of money as Bako and was a good mentor for Soto last year.

Yes, they are role players, but every team needs good role players to make things happen in situations. I just don’t get why every guy we added have to be LH. That was the obsession

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on May 29, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, because Freel got hurt and went on the DL.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 29, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

“Options” are option YEARS, not specific times a player is sent up and down. During the three option years you have, you can be sent down and up as many times as the team wants.

Normally, if you are sent down you have to spend 10 days back in the minors. This is waived in case of an injury, such as happened to Freel.

You can find out lots more about this and other transaction mysteries at the ESPN transactions primer, which is always on the left sidebar of this site.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 29, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!!!

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 29, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stuff

I was at the game last night, first game of the year, and Wrigley looked beautiful. First time I have been there since the Winter Classic, which was cold, and before that game 2 against the Dodgers, so I might start calling myself “jinx”.

Anyways, not only was Sori’s AB in the 8th terrible (was he really going to bunt?) but if he would have thrown to 2nd base in the 3rd inning, keeping runners at 1st and 3rd, and not 2nd and 3rd, the next ab would have probably resulted in a double play and eliminating that run. I know he was trying to make a play at 3rd, but my point is I can handle is streaky hitting, just do the other things right.

What a great outing by Randy Wells after a few shaky innings. Let’s get a win today!

Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...

by slocs55 on May 29, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe when Lou signed with Chicago in the winter of 2006

it was for 3 years, which would make this the last year of his contract. Did he sign an extension at anytime?

by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 29, 2009 9:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Just before the playoffs last year

Idk how long.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe they just

exercised his 2010 option

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on May 29, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he comes back next year...

Especially if we have a rough and disappointing season, he looks tired of this at times.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on May 29, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randy Wells...

Pitched a great game last night, and has kept us in ballgames in all 4 of his starts. He definitely softens the blow of losing Harden.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on May 29, 2009 9:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I really like Randy Wells

Good solid pitcher, and I’m guessing with Rich Harden on this team and Sean Marshall probably needing a break in the summer, Wells will be around quite a bit.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kind of... but they aren't winning the games Wells has pitched anyway.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 29, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't Matt Clement have an epic run of this kind of luck

Back in 2004 or 2005? If I remember right it lasted like 2 months straight.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In 2004

Clement had a 9 start stretch where he went 1-6 despite having a 2.98 ERA over that period.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on May 29, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No. I didn't say that it was...

Just the fact that it may have softened the loss of Harden but they aren’t winning anyway.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on May 29, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Soriano is going to keep misplaying balls off the wall and in the corner

he better start hitting soon. Otherwise, he is useless to this team

by Mapmaker on May 29, 2009 9:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Late June of 2007...

Weren’t we about 8.5 back IIRC?

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on May 29, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We were 8.5 games out of 1st

As late as June 23, 2007.

"The finish line is just the start of the next race."

by Sobenergy on May 29, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

IIRC, this is the last year on Piniella's contract

I thought he signeda three year deal and this would be the third year. This team doens’t seem totally right and you can’t get rid of 25 playres. Trammel wasn’t the best manager with the Tigers, but he does have experience.

by jerry morales rules on May 29, 2009 9:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe they picked up the 1-year option

right before last year’s playoffs. Possibly right after.

Don’t think it will be a big deal either way. If they want him gone, they will buy him out. Cubs have had no problem throwing money away lately.

by salparadise23 on May 29, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al, I didn't like thew way Lou managed Monday night's loss...

And, I didn’t like the way Lou managed last night’s loss either.

We were in a close, winnable ballgame… and he sends Heilman and Ascanio out there? Are you kidding me? Are you trying to lose? Go with your best stuff… we need to win, badly.

Then, of course the Koyie Hill fiasco.

BTW, Al… did you leave your scorecard on your seat in frustration? There was one just sitting there when I exited the bleachers. Sorry, didn’t make it over to say hello.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on May 29, 2009 9:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Stop by any time.

Sorry I didn’t see this comment till now.

No, that wasn’t my scorecard. Don’t know whose it was.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 29, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This will be Lou's last season

Lou does indeed look tired. And he strikes me as a manager who is genuinelly depressed with the ballclub he has because I’m guessing he has determined in his own mind it can’t win. I think he doesn’t want this job anymore and will resign at the end of the season to become special advisor to the Yankees, a job that will enable him to spend lots of time at home in Temple Terrace Florida.

I don’t think Lou is the kind of professional who will simply play out the string and count the days off the calendar however. Fact is while some of his tactical moves can be questioned, it isn’t Lou who is the cause of this mess.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 29, 2009 10:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I missed the beginning of the game...

But all in all, I’m not gonna jump on the “if only” criticism train.

Sometimes you just lose games. No team goes out and performs every single play perfectly, every single night. We didn’t. The Dodgers didn’t. That’s baseball.

I think Lou is doing a fine job, all things considered.

Let’s get a win today! :)

by CubsWin!Oregon on May 29, 2009 10:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Chicago sports has a history of managers who use fear

and intimidation as a prime motivator. These tactics typically work for a couple years at a pro level and then the players become disinterested. Orval Tessier, Mike Keenan—Mike Ditka—Leo Durocher—and I now wonder if Lou is that type of mananger?

He’s certainly not a brilliant strategist or a particularly good handler of pitching staffs. Was anyone else surprised that Torre had NO ONE warming up in the 8th and 9th? He seemed to know Troncoso would get it done. I hate to turn on Lou—but this team is doing alot wrong fundamentally—moving runners to third with no outs—they are no where close to working counts the way last year’s squad did….hanging pitches up in the zone on 0-2 or 1-2 counts…..failing to have any control of their focus on the field—it’s a real sorry state of affairs right now and extremely painful to watch….I have no idea what it will take to fix it—but I’m not so sure Lou is able to…I pray that somehow—he can—cuz I like the guy!

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on May 29, 2009 10:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

we almost won that game

they got some good hits late in the game. Just couldn’t quite turn it up enough.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 10:32 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, tough end to the game for the "youngsters"

Scales and Fox had pretty good 8th innings, but just couldn’t quite get it done again in the 9th. We came really close to sneaking a win away.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was, indeed, a "competitive loss."

And that usually makes me feel better. I’m still reeling from the losing streak, though, and I always hate to see the Cubs lose the first game of the series. What’s worse, they face Billingsley today, who is a pretty damn good pitcher. On the bright side, for the last two games of the series, we’ll see Stultz and Milton, who appear to be pretty beatable. And Juan Pierre’s luck has to run out sometime. Maybe that double play he ran into last night was a sign.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

we have a shot at today. It’s lovely outside, it’s a day game, Scales’ bus-lag is gone, and Blanco is impressing. Put Hoff in left for Soriano, give him a day off, play Dome, put Fonty back at short (or even give him another day off too). Scales at second, Fox at third, see what happens…

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant second. :D

I’m not THAT gutsy.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean put Blanco at short?

I’d put Fontenot where he belongs – second base – vs. the RHP. I’ll leave it up to Lou as to what to do about third base. I guess if he’s going to put Fox there eventually, he might as well do it now. The Dodgers were hitting plenty of ground balls to the left side last night, so Lou may get several opportunities to see whether Jake can play the position ugly or simply not play the position.

Not crazy about Hoff in the outfield, but I guess Soriano could use a day off. Dome should defintely play.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

At least Dome can draw a walk against a lefty.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

Fontenot should play 2B and 2B only. And I’d be okay with him platooning there as well to avoid LHP.

I’d be okay with giving Theriot the day off and going with Blanco against the RHP, or just going with Theriot at SS and either of our three options at 2B. And Fox might as well get a shot at 3B.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's your lineup at that point, Drew?

You’ve got Soriano and Theriot out. Who is leading off?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant to put Riot

at short. Give Fonty a day off. Riot leads off.

Riot
Dome
Lee
Hoff
Bradley
Scales
Fox
Soto
Pitcher

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe switch

Scales and Soto

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Scales

is the real deal. I really do. It’s not an A+ Numbah One lineup, but it’ll do.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe in Iowa.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nah

I think it’ll do here. Once they hit the big leagues, they’re big leaguers.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a lot of hoping. I just wish Sori or Milton would start hitting

a few dingers. This offense can’t seem to generate a lot of runs. They need to hit some big flies.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotcha

So, the infield is (Left to right) Fox, Theriot, Scales, Lee?

I’m not sure I have Hoff in left backing up Fox. Singles could get turned into doubles that way. I know Soriano could use a break, but I’m not sure it should coincide with Fox at 3rd.

Other than that, it’s doable.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

play Reed

in Left, then, and use Hoff off the bench.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would work

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That definitely works defensively...

…which may be the way to go against this small-balling Dodgers team. If you buy into UZR, RJ’s best defensive position is, actually , left field.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a good point about Hoff playing behind Fox.

At least Soriano can get the ball in quickly when he bobbles it.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If by cleanly fielding his only chance you mean Fox picked up a ground ball

without booting it then yes, I agree. But his inability get the ball to second quickly almost got Scales killed. And Scales looked lost after stepping on the bag. He neither had any intention of throwing nor did he appear able to avoid Martin’s roll block. Pretty scary having two guys with so little skill at their positions in the ninth inning of a close game.

Len and Bob talked about Fox only playing one game at third in Iowa even though Ramirez got hurt three weeks ago. One game in three weeks! Now there’s an organization that gets it from top to bottom.

by the nth on May 29, 2009 10:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Fox's play was fine. Scales just mishandled the throw...

Yes, Fox hesitated for a brief moment. But had Scales handled the throw cleanly, he wouldn’t have been standing there to be barrelled by Martin.

He was certainly ABLE to avoid Martin’s slide, he just for some reason didn’t (perhaps because he was two feet to the 3B side of 2B at the time).

Fox had little to nothing to do with Scales getting bowled over at 2B.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh, I dunno...

…I’d have to see the play again. I thought Fox made an awkward (slow, offline) throw to Scales that caused The Substitute to get out of rhythm. That’s not to say Bobby couldn’t have done a better job of recovering – he seemed to just freeze up.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was slow, but Scales should have still made the play cleanly...

it wasn’t THAT slow.

Scales had plenty of time to handle the throw and avoid the runner. He mishandled the throw, and then stood still.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Fox's throw was high.

I need to look at it again.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please remember....

we are asking a bunch of guys who’ve never played together at these positions much to perform as if they have.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 29, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh I agree...

I’m just pointing out that Fox doesn’t deserve the blame for Scales getting barrelled over at 2B.

Fox almost certainly will prove to be terrible at 3B, but he wasn’t that bad on the one ball he fielded last night.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But we had FREEL!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way, when I say "FREEL!"

It’s best to imagine it being shouted by Mel Gibson as he is being disembowled on the torture rack.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And yet you do...

Do you shout “Thank you sir, may I have another?” when you read them too?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had actually assumed in was more like a...

“KKKKKHHAAAANNNNNN” ala Star Trek. But I guess Mel works too.

by CubsWin!Oregon on May 29, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know he's on the DL, right?

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes...

But I’m saying that’s why Fox wasn’t used at third. I truly believe Hendry thought Freel was the answer.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What the hell was the question?

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why wasn't Fox used at 3B in Iowa?

I say it’s because the organization put too much faith in Freel (and Fontenot)

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously they blew it on this one. As soon as Rami went down, Fox should have

been at third. Theb way he was crushing the ball should have told them that this could be a possibility. He has been a candidate for a callup for weeks now. They knew he had a hot bat and the Freel/Fontenot experience was a long shot at best. You’ve got to cover your bets in a situation like this. There slow reactions to these situations are killing the team.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I see what you mean.

Yeah, Freel’s career defensive numbers at 3B are pretty good, so it wasn’t necessarily a bad move. It doesn’t seem like there were many available options out there. I just wonder whether Hendry was aware of this hamstring issue. Maybe he was and he just gambled on it being better by now – another roll of the injury dice he’s lost this season.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The whole organization

is clueless on how to develop players. I mean come on, how many players do they have that can’t play defense?!

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soto, Theriot, Zambrano, Hoffpauir, Marmol, Marshall, Guzman, Wells

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And what exactly have they won?

Hoff can’t play a position, Theriot barely can field his own and should definitely play 2nd, Marshall is decent, Guzman has been hurt for a decade, BigZ’s ego/temper keep him from being a true ace, Soto could be a flash in the pan, Wells has three good starts (not nearly enough). Marmol and Z are the only consistent successes in how many years?

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree.

Hoffpauir appears to play an adequate play first base – and many minor league experts confirm this. Also disagree about Theriot – UZR shows him to be just above league average defensively. Also disagree about Guzman – he’s not hurt, he’s pitching well. Also disagree about Big Z – he’s ego/temper doesn’t keep him from being a true ace, his pitching does. But that doesn’t matter, because he’s still a very good pitcher.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point

is they have too many guys playing out of position, and not enough developed for “need” positions. Z has some of the best stuff out there, but can’t put it all together; it has more to do with his mental makeup and less to do with his pitching. Guzman is pitching well finally…it’s only taken five years or so. Also, Lee and Sori have basically blocked players deserving to come up from the minors. How about developing Fox as a 3rd baseman or a RF? If he can’t make it happen, trade him to the AL. What about Theriot’s range? What does UZR say about that?

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

do you use

a wheel of fortune, or do you have more of a dartboard approach?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You just seem to be making a point...

…I’ve grown increasingly tired of: That Big Z isn’t a “true ace”; therefore, he’s a failure. (Feel free to clarify if this isn’t what you’re saying.) He’s not a failure. He’s been one of the better pitchers in the National League for several years running now. I agree with you – he’s not a true ace. But true aces are a rare breed and in extremely short supply. Just let it go. Carlos Zambrano is a good starting pitcher. We should be grateful the Cubs have a good starting pitcher (a bunch, actually). That’s all that matters.

Regarding Lee and Soriano, precisely whom are they blocking? How is Derrek Lee, a player with a career OPS+ of 122, blocking anyone? How is Alfonso Soriano, a player with a career OPS+ of 116, blocking anyone? Who are these mythical minor league players who are going to save the Cubs season?

Oh, and about Theriot’s range, UZR combines a number of factors to rate players – range definitely being one of them. I’m certainly not saying he’s a perfect defender, but he’s far less a liability than many seem to believe.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Z is being paid like an ace

He should start by pitching like one. Tell me the last time the Cubs developed a CF, a true-SS, or a RF? Just about anyone can play the positions Lee and Sori play; it’s where you put your worst defensive players (no offense to DLee’s 1B prowess).

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He should start by pitching like one.

Because, you know.

It’s that easy. o.0

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What difference does it make to you what he is being paid? He is being

paid what the market will bear. There are plenty of over-paid and under-paid players in the league. It pertty much balances out. There were many years where he was performing like an 18 million dollar pitcher and getting paid a lot less. Did you complain then?

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

I understand he’s worth a good amount, but I can name you at least a dozen other top of the line starters I’d rather have as my #1 pitcher.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's fine. That's your list. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury

of picking and choosing who we want for an ace. I would love to have Halladay or Santana or Lincecum at the top of our rotation, but we don’t. We have Big Z. He’s a capable pitcher that can get you a win every time he takes the bump. The other stuff is gravy. Not every pitcher can fit into a pre-made set of requirements that makes them an ace. Every one has warts. You deal with it and move on.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL...yeah...and I'd love to find a million dollars in the trunk of my car.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

me first!

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh...the money thing again.

Here’s my mantra on that: Players get paid what the market will bear. If you’d rather face the New York Mets with Santana and Zambrano at the top of their rotation then, by all means, argue that Hendry should’ve let Carlos walk. Otherwise, he’s a good pitcher and it’s not our money he’s making.

About the Cubs developing players, I just had this discussion in a Fanpost yesterday. Yeah, sure, absolutely – they should do better. But MacPhail shortchanged the minor league system for years and it’s taking some time to make up ground. They tried to develop a CF in Felix Pie. Didn’t work out. Believe it or not, Ryan Theriot has given the team 2+ reasonably solid seasons of major league shortstop. You’ll forgive me if I don’t trust your eyes – or my own – over a detailed, well-regarded defensive metric.

And, sorry, but no – just about anyone can’t play 1B or LF at the major league level and put up the offensive numbers that Derrek Lee and Alfonso Soriano are capable of. It’s not that simple.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This keeps coming up and while people keep pointing out the money,

I believe the money is just an easy fallback argument.

Whether or not Z is the ace of the Cubs has nothing to do with the money. Hendry resigned Z for a below market deal and retained a very good pitcher.

If someones opinion is that every team needs an ace and listens to the crap spewed by Lou and Hendry that Z is that ace, then those someones frequently pull the money card in discussion.

The reality is that the Cubs do not have that one stopper to be the ace. They have two pitchers in Harden and Z with the talent, but each has a major flaw and doesn’t fill the ace role.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right.

It’s all semantics, really. Z is the “ace” of the Cubs staff, but that doesn’t mean he’s a “true ace” – at least not according to my standards. I’d still rather have a starting rotation made up of good-to-decent pitchers, which I believe the Cubs have, than be a team like the Mets with one true ace and four mediocre arms leading up the rear.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah....

For the regular season I completely agree. It’s the playoffs that the one superdominant pitcher seems more important, however, 1 ace followed by 4 schlubs doesn’t work in the playoffs either.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's more important to have two pitchers pitching well. It's almost impossible

to do it with one guy. If you look back at the teams that have won it, they usually had two really good pitchers, not necessarily one “ace”.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't the "ace" role a bit overblown? It's kind of like the "true lead-off" hitter.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a lot like that, yeah.

Although, yeah, a true ace is invaluable in the postseason.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rather have a "true" ace

They can shut down any team in the postseason, and possibly carry the team to a title.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But don't you really want a guy who is pitching well at playoff time? I

wouldn’t consider Cole Hamels a “true ace”, but he pitched like one last year. If Big Z is on his game come playoff time, he can dominate a lineup.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

but I don’t really trust him to live up to that. This is the same guy who hasn’t won a game in over a month.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really don't think you can go to the win stat when talking about

starting pitching with this team now. The starters have pitched a bunch of games that could have easily been wins. That’s exactly why people say that the W-L stat for a pitcher can be deceiving. Randy Wells should not be 0-2 right now, we both know that. You can’t drop that at a pitchers feet if the team hasn’t scored any runs for him.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a fair point...

though Zambrano is probably the one pitcher who that applies to less. He hasn’t had a particularly great start since all season. And his last good start (though his last against Pittsburgh was ok) was probably in late April…

by CubsWin!Oregon on May 29, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

W/L is deceiving

but Z was the recipient of 5 runs just the other day.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and the slumping bats

have nothing to do with that… right?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's pitched once during their slump

and he blew getting a win cause of his temper.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you don't know that.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What was it then?

Interference from the cosmos?

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he can only pitch

once every five days. Four excellent pitchers far outweighs one ace.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

two division championships in a row

including a 97-win season.

Go ask the Baltimore Orioles if they’d be happy with that. Or the Pittsburgh Pirates.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't compare

the eternal NL central “punching bag” Pirates to the Cubs. Apples to oranges to the extreme.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what?

are you kidding? You asked what they’d won. I told you, and then suggested that, for example, the Orioles or Pirates would be happy with contenting two years in a row. Sheesh.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

O's

They’re building a very competitive team, it’s something the Cubs won’t be saying cause they farm is pathetic. No one should ever compare the Pirates to another MLB team, cause it’s just not fair. They don’t even try to fake that they care about winning.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

give me a break.

I just put up a list of Cubs players that came from our farm system, and that doesn’t include the ones we used to get other players, like… oh… Ramirez or Harden.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aram

is a perfect example of how the Pirates should be a AAA organization. It’s widely known to be one of the biggest rip-offs in recent memory. We got Harden not because of our return of players, it was because his salary and durability concerns.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so

the As would have given him to us without a return?

Ridiculous.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Never said that

He was gotten for less cause he’s always injured, and the fact the A’s couldn’t risk paying for his high salary with those concerns. Is it that difficult to understand?

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what I understand

is that pieces of our farm system got him. Why don’t YOU understand that?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Valuable pieces from our farm system?

Yeah, and those guys traded for him are really “tearing it up” with Oakland and Colorado.

Gallagher- 8.16 ERA, with a 1.95 WHIP
Patterson- 2 games played (whoa!), .125 average
Murton- 36 ABs with a pitiful Rockies team.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your list notwithstanding...

I don’t think any experts actually think the Cubs have a good farm system…and that’s been true for some time.

(It’s especially glaring when you consider how our farm system used to be among the very best).

by CubsWin!Oregon on May 29, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know that

but it’s not the glaring bottomless pit of Hell, either.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I suppose not.

Though that would make for a great name for a band.

(to steal Dave Barry’s thunder).

:)

by CubsWin!Oregon on May 29, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the O's are building that competitive team...

…on the backs of their fans, who have had to watch them lose repeatedly – season after season after season.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, at least

they’ve finally recognized they couldn’t win with pricey veterans and a sub-par farm . On the contrary, the Cubs are always in a “win now” mode, but don’t have great results to show for it.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and if they were in rebuilding mode

and losing 80 games a season, you’d be shrieking about that.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope

I’ve struggled through 25 seasons of the Cubs, been through the ups and downs (mostly).

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes, and?

that makes my statement no less valid.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In other words

I’d be happy if the Cubs chose to rebuild, cause the last 25 years hasn’t been fruitful. Their philosophy has been the same forever, and it hasn’t worked.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We may start to see the "win now" stuff...

…going by the wayside after this season. But seeing as how they have won (the division) now for the last two years running, it’s understandable to a point that they’re going this route. You didn’t enjoy the 97 wins last season?

Again, yeah, our minor league system isn’t exactly tops. But improving it isn’t something the Cubs can do overnight. And, as Drew points out, I don’t think any of us want to endure four, five years of sub-.500 seasons just so we can get a bunch of high draft picks.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course

I enjoyed it, but what does it matter how many games they won in the regular season if they couldn’t come close to winning a playoff game? It’s a moot point.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Girardi

This is exactly why I wanted Hendry to hire him instead of another “retread” like sweet Lou. An infusion of youth is needed at manager if Lou can’t get it done this year. There’s no reason to go past three years if a senior veteran manager can’t win. Hendry should be fired too if the Cubs can’t come back and make the playoffs at the very minimum.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 11:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's what I wanted at the time.

Watching from afar, I’m not sure the Girardi we’re seeing in NY is what the Cubs needed either.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Evaluation

I’m not sure what to take from Girardi’s time in NY, but one thing is certainly true. The Cubs need a change in philosophy from top to bottom.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a GM thing...

our GM doesn’t seem to have a good idea of a system philosophy. The ML team’s philosophy is driven by the manager, and has changed repeatedly with each new manager. But the minor league philosophy does not mesh.

Hendry is more of a follower than a leader at the top. Good organizations frame their philosophy, identify players (both major league and prospects) that fit it, and then develop their prospects to fit the philosophy. With Hendry, there seems to be no such connection.

Part of that might be the choice in manager though. Piniella presents two problems with long-term development:
1. he appreciates plate discipline, which is in stark contrast to previous regimes
2. he brings a “win-now” manager who isn’t concerned about development, which means he won’t focus on instilling his philosophy downward.

That said, I think Piniella was a good hire in that he identified the value of patience, OBP, and cutting down walks by the pitchers. He also changed the mindset of the team and franchise. But I don’t think we’ll make the jump with him at the helm.

The key will be finding a younger replacement who ALSO gets the OBP thing and can help Hendry to refocus the minor league philosophy.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

to clarify on issue #1 with the Piniella hire...

I think it’s a good thing that Piniella values plate discipline and OBP. But the organization had been built for years around ignoring OBP and plate discipline, so hiring Piniella created an immediate disconnect.

The “problem” lies in the combination of the difference in philosophy AND the fact that Piniella is a guaranteed short-term guy. I’d like the next manager to have a similar philosophy to Piniella’s.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very good points

If Hendry stays around, he really needs to draft and develop better, or get new scouts.

"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

by propheteer on May 29, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It goes beyond Hendry.

The organization as a whole needs to add coaches and scouts to identify and then develop the talent from rookie league all the way up.

This is one of the areas I’m counting on new ownership (if/when they take over) improving the club.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Has there been any indication from Ricketts...

that he believes in a high OBP philosophy? I wouldn’t mind seeing a rational, sabermetrics-aware regime in Wrigley-dom…

by CubsWin!Oregon on May 29, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All that's been published is he's a fan,

used to live near the park, etc.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is a very poorly manged baseball team

1st off…………….I apologize for my profanity hurled at Lou in the game thread after last night’s game. (A few too many beverages)

No way should Hoff not come to the plate in the 9th. Why put Fox in that spot……….isn’t Hoff on this team for exactly that situation? Also………..in the 8th inning……..Soriano HAS to lay down a bunt to move the runners over…………is that his inflated ego or just poor managing? My guess is the latter. IMO Lou HAS lost it………..it all started with removing Z in game 1 of the 07 playoffs, saving him for a game 4 or 5 that never happened……..we should have known right then and there that this guy is done as a top-flite manager. The beat goes on and on and on and on

As for how to change things now. Why not move Soriano to 2B at least until Ramirez comes back? Put Fox at 3rd during that time as well. Deal with the defensive shortcomings in order to hopefully provide some offensive spark. Fontenot can NOT be in this lineup any longer……….it’s not like he’s better than average defensively anyhow. This way……you platoon Reed Johnson and Hoff in LF and maybe……..just maybe this team can hang in there.

As for Lou…………hopefully he will step aside and clear the way for Ryno time!

by plenz on May 29, 2009 11:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you really need to move Sori to second if you play Fox at third? That seems like

too many changes and to many iffy gloves. An infield of Fox, Theriot and Sori gives me nightmares. You better give DLee a flak uniform to play in with that trio.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fox had a hit off the exact same pitcher the previous inning...

No reason to think he couldn’t do it again. And if Hoffpauir walks? Then you have a truly awful fielding alignment.

There was minimal difference in the expected outcome of an at-bat by Hoffpauir or Fox there. Piniella made the right call there. The mistake was earlier in the game, when he bungled the PH situation.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fox was literally batting a thousand

I had no problem with him being the hitter with two men in scoring position and two outs.

Sometimes, you can get overly worked up over left-right and forget that good hitters can sometimes hit no matter who is pitching.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

The game was lost earlier. When Lou pot Fontenot and Blanco in the starting lineup.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

They looked way over-matched.

by dr stabbingworth on May 29, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blanco

had some great plays last night.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blanco is our best defensive middle infielder, and he showed it

but I’ll agree Fontenot had no business being on the field

by WanderingWanderer on May 29, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The combination of the two of them back-to-back in the lineup

was a killer. I hope we never see that again against a lefty.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

Going with Fox in that situation was not a mistake. Especially because if Fox walks, you’re going to have to have someone hit for the pitcher anyway.

Obviously, it didn’t work out. But I think Piniella made the right call going with Fox and Scales again. Had Hoffpauir come in and struck out, people would be moaning about how Piniella yanked Fox/Scales after their big 8th inning hits.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it’s not like he’s better than average defensively anyhow.

But Fox at third and SORIANO at second IS???

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO they certainly are not

But………….aren’t you tired of seeing Fontenot, Miles,Freel? We have no chance with those guys

by Cubz24 on May 29, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scrappy, but shitty.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So we should get shittier?

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

shittier

than Miles,Fontenot, Freel, etc?? Impossible

by plenz on May 29, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm still not going to call Mike Fontenot shitty.

Call me stubborn, but I’m just not.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not shitty. He's just hitting shitty right now.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's definitely struggling.

And I’m not opposed to Lou going back to limiting his appearances vs. LHP. Of course, that would leave us with either Scales (who’s probably not going to outhit Fontenot) or Blanco (who’s now essentially a LHH, too) at second base.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right now I would go with Scales against lefties. There aren't that many in

our division so we aren’t talking about a huge number of at-bats. I think that Fontenot needs to get comfortable at the plate now and get his stroke back. I don’t think he can do that against lefties right now. Especially the ones who get most left-handed batters out.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I agree.

Scales appears to be the better all-around athlete and he’s got good speed, which the Cubs are sorely lacking.

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by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Mike Fontenot

and I think he’s struggling playing out of position. Miles and Freel can be DFA’d. But they’re on the DL anyway. I still don’t think you can put Soriano at second with Fox at third.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Fontenot is great as a platoon 2B...

he’s strong against RHP and defensively at 2B. He’s not strong against LHP.

I agree about Miles and Freel. They don’t bring anything more to the table than Scales. But they’re on the DL anyway, hopefully not to return.

If Fox is at 3B, I don’t want Soriano at 2B.

by SouthernCub on May 29, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Fox is at 3B, I'm not sure Soriano lasts at 2B

One, MAYBE two double-plays and we’re back in calf-popping territory.

Guys, it’s fun to fantasize about opening the trapdoor on Miles, but there are 4 million reasons he’s staying.

Freel, on the other hand… is not long for this team

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am only

suggesting that as a temporary solution. We have lost 9 of 11 doing it the other way. It couldn’t hurt to score some runs!

by plenz on May 29, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Fonty can snap out of his funk if he’s benched and gradullay weaned back inot playing 2b against RHP…his game is suffering because of the mistake made in getting rid of DeRo…let Fonts play his regular position so he doesn’t take his defense to the plate with him.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like to him."
Solomon

by cubfever7 on May 29, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, Fox at third and Soriano at second.

The Dodgers BABIP would be around .500.

Oh, and by the way, Mike Fontenot IS better than average defensively at second base (per UZR).

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by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if Fox is at third

Then I think you have to go with your “best available” lineup around the rest of the horn.

And that means Theriot, Fontenot and Lee.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 29, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

but they’ll miss more.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not every play...

…but, at the risk of sounding overly pessimistic, I can clearly envision them missing key plays in key situations that will lead to runs and losses.

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by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As far as Fox is concerned, I can clearly enviosion...

Fontenot having terrible key AB’s in key situations that will lead to no runs and losses.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 29, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe against LHP...

…but LBR will likely still save runs in the field no matter who the Cubs are facing on the mound. And there’s no guarantee Soriano is going to produce offensively while dealing with the distraction of essentially relearning second base against live major league hitters. In fact, I’d bet against it. He’s already struggling right now.

It’s pick your poison at third base right now. Scales has looked relatively smooth in his few innings played, but he’s basically a second baseman. And Jake Fox is, well, Jake Fox.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Lou. Ane he could probably turn a double play every now and then.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 29, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Umm...hang on...gimme a minute...

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hoffpauir

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 29, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe it's not a Sr moment

maybe it’s ADD. I know he’s years older than me but since I started taking Fokolin XR, my memory lapses are a thing of the past.

But the overriding issue is roster un-flexibility. Jimbo has to get on his horse and ride in to the rescue. The problem for me with this whole issue is that prick Zell is costing them a chance to take on extra salary right now.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on May 29, 2009 11:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we need to be rescued from Hendry

he is, after all, the one who put this roster together, and who’s administration is failing at things like scouting our own minor leaguers, and preparing for the eventuality of Fox playing third. As others have said, the day Aramis went down, Hendry should have been on the phone telling Iowa Fox needed to start getting time at third, so the experiment didn’t need to START up here

by WanderingWanderer on May 29, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um, yeah, I like Al's game recaps, too.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou Too Old ?

AL ………… Come on … I’m 76 still working 40 + a week….. I have some people working for
me a lot younger …. clueless….. and some older people who are better employees.
I have let go a lot of 60+ people who were “Over The Hill” Its a case by case thing … Lou looks to me like he is thinking do I need this I could be in Tampa in a chair by the pool colecting a check from the Yankees……. If you want to point fingers ….. Jimmy H. is the guy who put this mess together.

by nimblenikelfoos on May 29, 2009 11:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I just can't believe

we lost to Randy Wolf, ugh…I’ve seen this guy blow 5 and 6 run leads before, sheesh.

by Ditka,Sausage,Bears on May 29, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm too lazy to check...

…but I believe Wolf has, strangely, been a much better pitcher over the last year or so.

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by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And sadly, he didn't suck last night either.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on May 29, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well I guess anything can happen..

I mean have you seen Juan Pierre’s BA lately lol

by Ditka,Sausage,Bears on May 29, 2009 12:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep, players can get inexplicably hot for no discernible reason.

Er, actually, I suppose Pierre does have a reason – he wants to stay in the lineup. But still.

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by dat cubfan daver on May 29, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou is not losing it

He had already lost it last year. He was terrible managing in game situations, particularly the bullpen but of course
he had more to work with. He has no ability to inspire a team only to try to intimidate them which I suspect he has lost.
Faced with injuries and a bunch of new players HE wanted, he simply does not have the flexibility to adjust. That said
I still believe the TEAM has the ability to turn it around.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on May 29, 2009 12:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes the Cubs have faced some good pitchers lately

But c’mon, you can’t win a division waiting for the Pirates to come to town every week. The Cubs offense has been horrendous against the league’s better pitchers, and for those that chime in “that’s why they are good pitchers…” no, that doesn’t mean a playoff team gets shutdown by every good pitcher they face. Once and a while a team needs to come up with a win against these guys.

by BeltwayCubsFan on May 29, 2009 1:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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