D-Lee Poll: What do we think about him now?

by adam316 on May 3, 2009 3:32 PM CDT Comment 38 comments

On Saturday, in the fourth inning, Derrek Lee pounded a home run on the first pitch. Sunday he hit a grand slam. There has been a lot of debate recently about the decline and such of Derrek Lee. Is he out of his slump? Is he still in decline? Were people too quick to say he's declining so early in the season? I have my own opinion, so here is a poll that should hopefully show what everybody thinks now. My guess is many people now realize that they spoke too soon, and some might even feel embarassed for the things they said about Lee. One thing is for sure, we definitley like the outcomes of these past few games, and we all hope it will continue.

Poll

Derrek Lee Hit a home run one game, and a granny the next. What do you think about his performance now?

I was completely wrong, Derrek Lee has still got plenty of power and potential.

5 votes

Those were suprising and all, but I still think Lee is in decline.

110 votes

I never doubted him a bit, he started off slow, but he is in his groove now.

59 votes

Derrek Lee, I want to personally apologize for doubting your awesomeness.

8 votes

182 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Comments

He's still a good player

And he’s still on the decline. He was in a slump that he has broken out of and he is still a 20+ homer and 280+ average guy. He is on the decline, but not as much as people think.

"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti

by wrigleyrocker12 on May 3, 2009 3:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

He is in decline but he is getting out of the slump he was in.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by jkobus on May 3, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is definitely declining

with that said I will take him being a .280 20HR guy because what he has lost with the bat he still makes up for with the glove

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on May 3, 2009 4:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It was rather meaningless...

to condemn Lee after 20 games. In the same regard, it’s meaningless to change opinions after two games.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on May 3, 2009 4:14 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs

am I recommending Kansas?

why yes,

Lee is not the Cubs best hitter to be at 3 and Piniella stated today he is going to make some changes to the lineup when Ramirez returns…

my guess is the Fonz, TheRiot, Fukudome, Ramirez, Bradley, DLee, Fontenot and Soto

lot of run potential near the bottom of the order.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on May 3, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

I think DLee is in decline and not a fit for #3 spot anymore. I am not going to change my opinion after today’s GS. I haven’t seen absolutely anything to prove otherwise. He is still tardy on fast balls, doesn’t have consistent opposite field power etc etc. He should bat #6 behind Bradley when Aramis comes back.

by cubsnlinux on May 3, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The question that needs to be asked

is if people think he is in natural or accelerated decline, and what their interpretation of decline is.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 3, 2009 4:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Nobody has said he was a bad player

The claim of his decline was never that he would never hit a home run ever again. The decline is that the numbers will be down from previous years. None of that makes him a bad player. It just puts him in a different role than one he has been in the past few years.

by Arbusto on May 3, 2009 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

So does anybody think that he could have a better year than last year?

If so, that would obviously debunk the decline theory since it would be an improvement. At this point I would say it is still possible. I was defintely too quick to judge, because somehow I could see that confidence in Lee today when the bases were loaded, that I’ve seen in years past.

With these last two knocks that he’s had, he had plenty of power. It doesn’t really seem like he is still hurt anyway.

by adam316 on May 3, 2009 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why would that debunk the theory?

Being in decline doesn’t rule out the possibility that a player could be slightly better or worse in any two years. There’s a lot of room for random variation in any given season. You can be in decline and still wind up with a slightly better season than the previous year by some good fortune.

Saying that he’s suddenly back based on two games is just as irrationally quick judgment as saying he was done after 20 games. Do you think Theriot is a super power hitter now? Because he hit home runs in back-to-back games too.

I tend to think he’s in a decline. I don’t think he’s fallen completely off the face of the earth though. From May 1, 2008 to April 30, 2009, Lee had the following stats:

592 AB, 156 H, 36 2B, 2 3B, 13 HR, 77 RBI, 63 BB, 120 K, .266/.334/.396 (.731 OPS). That’s the worst season-long stretch of his career since 1999. Now, I don’t think he’s headed for a sub-.700 OPS this year, either. But I think a .775-.800 OPS is a reasonable expectation. That would be a decline, considering he has been above .820 in OPS every year in the 2000s. But it’s not as dire a situation as some have predicted. And it’s certainly possible that he could sneak up and get to .825-.850.

by SouthernCub on May 3, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did I say he was suddenly back after 2 games?

No I didn’t. He showed us plenty of spark these last two games, so I wanted to see if that changed anybody’s mind. And if he puts up better numbers than last year, I have to disagree with you, that is proof positive that he is NOT in decline. Plain and simple, if you are in decline, luck can’t change that enough to make your numbers go up.

by adam316 on May 4, 2009 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree...

You can be in decline and have good fortune make your numbers look a bit better. I think you are underestimating the amount of variability from true ability players can have in a season.

And as I said, I don’t think two good swings of the bat should change people’s opinions. Just like I don’t think Theriot is suddenly a power hitter simply because he hit homers in back to back games. Just like I wouldn’t think he was useless if he had back to back 4 strikeout games.

by SouthernCub on May 4, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who cares if you don't think that two good at-bat's should change peoples minds?

Some fans are obviously more emotional than others and it does change peoples minds. Im not saying thats necessarily right, but it is what it is. For people that thought he was borderline DONE, he has at least changed their minds. Doesn’t the last two games show that he is at least seeing the ball better or doing something better than he has been? Or is he just in a lucky streak?

by adam316 on May 4, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently YOU care, since you specifically asked that question in your fanpost...

As for the rest of your last post, Lee has 4 Ks in the last two games as well. So does two good swings offset those 4 ABs? I’d say that it’s hard to tell with such a small sample size. That’s my point. The two HR could be evidence that he’s turning it around, or they could just be two lucky swings. Which is why, in response to your question, I think that two AB (more accurately, two swings) shouldn’t change people’s minds, one way or the other.

As I asked, do you think Theriot’s HR are evidence that he’s turning into a power hitter? If you don’t, then Lee’s two HR aren’t certain evidence that he’s turning the corner either. That’s not to say they certainly aren’t signs of progress (they could be); just that they aren’t conclusive evidence either way.

by SouthernCub on May 4, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 4, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's declining

Just hope we can milk him for the maximum production value he has left to offer while we tick off the days remaining on his big contract.

The window for winning a World Series may have waned.

by BLou on May 3, 2009 4:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you forgot the best option

…. two productive at bats is a small sample size, check back in a couple of months.

Just like it’s not really relevant to judge someone based on 20 poor games, it also makes no sense to judge someone based on 2 good at bats.

by polly on May 3, 2009 5:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No change in my opinion-

He is declining. If he hits .300 and 30+ HR’s, maybe I’ll change my tune, but he struck out 3 times yesterday and looked sick doing it.

I want him to succeed and admire his always top flight effort, but I still remain doubtful we’ll see “superstar” #‘s out of him over the course of a season. Hope I’m wrong.

"I still don't know what happened"- Fergie Jenkins on '69

by tommy veryzer on May 3, 2009 5:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Every player declines as they get older

especially past 30. However, he’s not in free-fall like some people on this board like to make out.

He’ll probably be moved down in the order, and we’ll see what happens, but two home runs in two days is clearly a demonstration that he still HAS HR power, he just has to bat well enough to show it.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 6:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you sure hedged your bet

If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.

by Clutche on May 3, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not hedging anything.

He clearly shows he can hit for power. I don’t know what hitting it out onto Waveland one day and then hitting it into dead-straightaway center is for you, if it’s not good enough.

Every player declines as they get older past a certain age. He’s not in free-fall. And he’s not going to just step aside to let your BFF take his place.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Is DLee supposed to defy nature? Any player past 30 is probably on the decline. A-Ram peaked at 38 home runs in ‘06 and is on a steady decline. The question is how you manage the player within the frame of the lineup. He’s off to a slow start. Last year he got off to a fast start. He could just as easily reverse the numbers he had from last year.

He doesn’t need to hit seventh. He may not be the best hitter on the team but he is certainly capable of putting up respectable numbers. There was no need to panic when he started slow slow and there is no need to proclaim he is the greatest hitter now. Baseball ebbs and flows, we all know that. Streaks come and go and you don’t get exited when they do.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 3, 2009 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sample size way to small.........

to conclude that his power is back. He’s declining, but not in a free-fall, is your opinion which I respect, although the next two months will determine to what degree he’s regressing. And no, he won’t be replaced this year because of salary and no trade clause, but if he continues to decline, as we agree as fact, then next year a replacement may be in order.

If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.

by Clutche on May 4, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Meh

Can’t get to good fastballs anymore. They will continue to hammer him middle in until he can show that he can.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on May 3, 2009 6:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The poll needs the following addition: "Next stop Cooperstown?"

by DudeVf11 on May 3, 2009 7:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

ugh.

I’m sick and tired of talking about this. I think D-Lee is fine, and I have no idea why people were on him so much. He’s fine at first base. As long as he doesn’t ground into 10,208 DP like he did last year, he’s one of the bright spots on the team — decline or not.

Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008

by Unique on May 3, 2009 7:48 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

This is what I was afraid would happen

Now we’re going to have to spend the next couple of months holding everything he does up to a magnifying glass. When he has two or three bad games, he’s in decline. When he hits homeruns a couple of days in a row, he’s back and better than ever.

I think it would be great if we could agree to not judge Lee one way or another until at least the all-star break.

by bluekoolaide on May 3, 2009 7:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

fine by me.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have posted a "where should D-Lee hit" poll on the front page.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 3, 2009 8:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Multiple answers can be true

He can be declining, but not as far or as fast as some thought. He may still be among the better first basemen in baseball.

The question will be consistency. After Al wrote that he thought Lee’s stance was more straight up, that’s what I’ll be looking for.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 3, 2009 8:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It's nice to see

him showing a little power. Let’s not forget he also struck out three times on Saturday, so I wouldn’t exactly say he’s on fire yet. I think he is still a good player, but he has probably dropped off to some degree. I’ve certainly not given up on him and I’m happy with him as our first baseman at this point in time.

by qccub on May 3, 2009 10:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

lee

its obvious lee is not as good as he once was.but he is still good. seems like the trend now has gone from bashing the riot to bashing lee.i have an idea .lets pick on milton bradley for a while.he certainly deserves it.

by NOMAR on May 4, 2009 7:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Soto is next in line after Milton.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 4, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The poll options are redundant.

How about, "I like what I’ve seen in the last two games, but it’s still too early to tell how DLee will perform this year or to declare him “in significant decline” – especially given his uncertain injury status."

In light of Derrek’s age, it seems likely we’ll see some fall off in his performance, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll free fall into wholesale embarassment.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on May 4, 2009 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...

it’s a very slanted poll. Three of the choices say basically the same thing (DLee is great and is clearly not in decline). Meanwhile, the only other choice can encompass those who think he’s not in decline but know better than to get too excited about the results of any two games, OR they may think he IS in decline and thus don’t see the two swings as evidence to the contrary. And among those who think he is in decline could include those who think he’s in a natural slow decline phase and those who think he’s falling off Andruw Jones-style.

Personally, I think he’s in a decline phase, but I don’t think he’s falling off the face of the earth. I do wonder if injuries are inflating the evidence of decline, which concerns me. I think that if he’s healthy, he’s still got ~.775-.800 OPS type talent. Of course, that could mean he winds up with a ..700-750 OPS or an .850+ OPS depending upon fortune/luck. Hopefully he has some good health and good fortune moving forward, and we get a couple of .825-.850 OPS seasons out of him this year and next.

by SouthernCub on May 4, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the entire decline or not is based on two things

1. ones definition for decline (natural or accelerated)
2. Interpretation of what decline is

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 4, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes I realize now that a poll answer should have been included

for those who think it is too early to make a decision on Lee. FWIW, that could also be N/A since you don’t have an opinion yet and the poll’s intent is to find out what people think about him right now.

by adam316 on May 4, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs