Hey, Z! You Don't Have To Do EVERYTHING! - Cubs 6, Marlins 4
by Al on May 3, 2009 5:14 PM CDT
in Recaps
744 comments
Fergie Jenkins and Greg Maddux, at Wrigley Field this afternoon for the retirement of their uniform #31, appeared in a combined 703 games in a Cubs uniform.
I think I'm pretty safe in saying that neither one of them ever had an afternoon quite like Carlos Zambrano had today. In the top of the fifth, with one out and runners on first and third, Marlins pitcher Ricky Nolasco laid down a safety squeeze bunt... but Geovany Soto, instead of going home with it or trying to tag out Jeremy Hermida, calmly threw to Derrek Lee for the out at first. Hermida scored to tie the game at 2-2. Z looked at Geo, patted him on the butt, and struck out Emilio Bonifacio to end the inning.
It appears that Nolasco's bunt put an idea in Z's head, because on a 1-1 pitch, he laid down a sweetly-placed bunt that slowly trickled down the third base line. Bonifacio picked it up and Z, running hard, beat it out, to crowd cheers -- only to then walk around gingerly at first base. Turns out he strained a hamstring, and who knows what that'll mean for his next start. Z plays the game with passion and maybe this was an "I'll show you guys what a bunt ought to look like!" moment, but he really needs to exercise more caution, because what happens if this moment puts him on the shelf for two weeks or longer? After a couple of first-inning hits gave the Marlins a 1-0 lead, Z was mowing 'em down pretty good until Nolasco's bunt.
Lou came out and stalked around the field for a while, getting into discussions with a couple of the umpires -- it appeared he actually sent Mark O'Neal back into the dugout -- before taking Z out of the game. Z walked very gingerly back into the dugout and Rich Harden ran for him, after a delay of a couple of minutes.
Fortunately, that was the start of the decisive rally -- one out later, after another nicely placed bunt by Ryan Theriot and a line drive to right by Kosuke Fukudome that was dropped by Ross Gload, Derrek Lee decided to play one-up of his own, hitting a grand slam ("Take that, Theriot!") which gave the Cubs enough runs to overcome some sloppy bullpen work and beat the Marlins 6-4, winning their third in a row and winning the series over a pesty Florida team that has been slumping since an 11-1 start, but still has some very good hitters. Lee's slam was hit with authority, like his homer yesterday, and he seems to be having better at-bats and hitting the ball better (well, except for the eighth-inning strikeout at the hands of Kiko Calero). D-Lee also seems to like number retirement games -- on August 28, 2005, when Ryne Sandberg's number 23 was retired, Lee hit a pair of homers and scored four runs.
Angel Guzman gave up a run, in part because of a sloppy play by Lee on a ground ball (which Guzman then dropped), and Carlos Marmol allowed John Baker a homer that made it 6-4. He then walked Hanley Ramirez.
Maybe what the Cubs need to do with Marmol is tell him, when he comes into a game, that he's already faced two hitters, since it seems to take him that long to settle down and get to business. After the walk, he dispatched the rest of that inning easily, and Kevin Gregg finished up without incident for his third save.
Nice moment: Mike Fontenot hitting the ball a long, long way for his fifth homer of the season. That's now second on the team behind Alfonso Soriano. Not-so-nice moment: boos raining down on Milton Bradley after he went 0-for-4 and also was struck out by Calero. Bradley hasn't had enough consistent playing time to get into any sort of rhythm. Here's hoping he will, over the next couple of weeks, and start to hit as he did last year in Texas. Moment that drove us nuts: why on Earth did Fredi Gonzalez pull Calero with two out in the 8th? Sure, he was making his third appearance in the series -- a sure sign of overuse; Calero is leading the NL with 15 appearances -- but he had dominated, striking out four of the five hitters he faced. So, you're thinking, a lefty was coming in to face Fontenot? No, it was righthander Matt Lindstrom, who Fontenot greeted with a single. Sometimes managers can do a better job sitting on their hands than making meaningless bullpen moves.
Given the type of weather we sometimes have in Chicago in early May, the Cubs really lucked out by getting a gorgeous, 65-degree, sunny day for the #31 retirement ceremony. The obligatory speeches were made and then one flag for each pitcher was hoisted up the foul pole flagpoles -- Fergie on the LF side, Greg on the RF side. To which Howard said: "The rooftop owners just called and said they're not paying today, because the new flags are blocking their view."
We can afford such humor with the team now on a winning streak and looking a lot more like last year's model. Onward to the abbreviated two-game series vs. the Giants starting tomorrow night.
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Good series, 3 out of 4
however, I am concerned with Marmol right now. He’s able to get batters out but he is looking very shaky out there right now
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
by Chanman25 on May 3, 2009 5:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think id be more concerned
With Zambrano then Marmol at this point. Im pretty sure The WBC really didnt help Marmol in the long run. Lou, god love him but, Im not so sure Big Z should be called to be a pinch hitter after today.
by Galvan316 on May 3, 2009 5:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
IT'S LIKE WALKING THE PLANK.....
You are 100 % right …..You are asking for a major injury if you continue to allow the pinch hitting ….
by cubs north on May 3, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he laid down a sweetly-placed bunt that slowly trickled down the third base line. Bonifacio picked it up and Z, running hard, beat it out, to crowd cheers — only to then walk around gingerly at first base. Turns out he strained a hamstring, and who knows what that’ll mean for his next start. Z plays the game with passion and maybe this was an “I’ll show you guys what a bunt ought to look like!” moment, but he really needs to exercise more caution, because what happens if this moment puts him on the shelf for two weeks or longer?
My sentiments exactly!
While I admire his passion for the game, we signed him for 5 years and 91 million dollars to pitch every fifth day. Not to “play baseball” Anything he does outside of that is gravy & should error on the side of caution (see bunting,stretching doubles into triples,stealing bases and breaking bats over knees)
Dragging down a bunt is careless. Z doesn’t play everyday. He certainly doesn’t sprint out of the box every day.
We can not afford Z to miss any games due to a non pitching injury.
Today, we got lucky… the pen performed good, although he saddled it with a few extra innings today.
Let’s hope he doesn’t miss his next start and finds some common sense
flame away
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 5:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Signed to play baseball
What are you talking abut? This is the National League. Pitchers hit. It’s unfortunate Zambrano got hurt, but obviously the Cubs are pleased with his bat – that’s why Lou used him to pinch hit in the prior three games.
“We” didn’t sign Zambrano, the Chicago National League Ball Club did. And it’s obvious they want him to do more than merely pitch for them.
by Old Style & Ivy on May 3, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He got +$90 million for his hitting.
Right. Must be the reason.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he for +90 million
to be a BASEBALL PLAYER.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or, more specifically, a...........
………….???
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
baseball player.
Pitchers in the National League are expected to bat, hit, bunt, run, leg out grounders, field their position, and PLAY BASEBALL.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in your world they are…. please name a pitcher that lead his to to the world series title with his bunting & bat
NAME ONE PLEASE
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, Babe Ruth did a pretty good job of batting and pitching.
Not that Zambrano’s Ruth, but you asked.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 3, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'm willing to wager...........
………he never tried to leg out a bunt.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be willing to bet he legged out an IF hit at least once
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, missing the point.
Legging out an infield hit is, in some ways, simple good fortune, mixed with fundamentals of playing the game.
OVERTLY TRYING to bunt for a hit, is completely different.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see them as completely different
And I’m done talking about it.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um, isn't a bunt hit an infield hit?
It’s just an infield hit on purpose. Players hit infield hits all the time on accident. The result is the same, a player hits it on the ground and runs as fast as they can to first base.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
quite
you always leg the grounder out, whether it’s bunting as a sacrifice, bunting to get on base, or because you knocked it off the head of the bat — because you don’t want to lose the baserunner unless you’re actually thrown out.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
modern era - give me a break - last 20 or 30 yrs
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then that leaves out Drysdale in 1965
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And his............
……….0-for-5 with 4Ks?
Kinda supports the point.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read the question again
please name a pitcher that lead his to to the world series title with his bunting & bat
Soriano didn’t hit during the post-season either. That doesn’t mean his hits during the season didn’t help the team get to the post-season. But I digress. Soriano is neither a pitcher nor a WS participant.
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That cuts the AL out since they have the DH
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Forsch 1987 St. Louis Cardinals
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Twins won the 87 World Series
but Forsch was a very good hitting pitcher for the Cardinals.
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don Drysdale, 1965
Bunting? Maybe not. But hitting, yes!
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don Drysdale............
………..never had a post-season hit.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what?
did his hits help his team get to the post season? I bet they did. Do you think Zambrano’s hits DIDN’T help the Cubs get to the post season the past two years? I bet you do.
But you’d be wrong.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read the question again
please name a pitcher that lead his to to the world series title with his bunting & bat
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understood. My bad.
That said, I’m sure Walter Alston was far more impressed with his >20 wins than his <20 RBIs, and certainly would not have condoned DD trying to drop bunts for hits.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you have to get to the playoffs in order to get to the WS?
Why does that count less? Only 8 teams get to the playoffs in MLB, by far, the hardest of all the, major sports to get to the playoffs.
The last pitcher I remember with a hit in the WS is Jason Marquis (I think) in 2004.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, just last year in Game 4
Sonnanstine and Blanton got hits.
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were both...........
………successful attempts for bunt singles – right?
You see, this is the crux of the discussion. It’s not should a pitcher hit, but rather how they approach the at-bat.
Is it okay for a pitcher to lean into a pitch? After all, he’ll be awarded first base even if he can’t continue to take the mound.
Seems like a fair exchange to me, and after all, he was simply DOING HIS JOB AS A BASEBALL PLAYER!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My response was to cowsarecool220
who said Marquis was the last pitcher to get a hit in the WS.
Blanton’s hit was a HR. Sonnanstine’s was a line drive single to LF.
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, I forgot about that.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 4, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the National League they are.
that’s why they bat. That’s why they’re not treated like pretty-pretty princesses the way they are in the AL.
Baseball is a game played with nine players on a side. Pitchers bat.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are 100% incorrect on this… i cant believe I am saying this.. you obviously have never played baseball at a high level
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which has
nothing to do with anything. Have you played baseball at a “high level”? Who cares?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes… it has do to with your comprehension of the sport
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I comprehend
the sport just fine. I’ve been playing and watching baseball for over 30 years. I’m not denigrating your “knowledge” of baseball. I’m perfectly happy to disagree with you on this issue, especially since it would appear that Lou agrees with me, or he wouldn’t keep sending Z out to pinch hit.
No one wants Z to be hurt. Nine times out of ten, he makes that bunt and ISN’T hurt. Stop being chicken little.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just stop feeding the troll, drew.
It’s futile.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 3, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was reasonable last year.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, troll's a bit harsh.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I draw my line at personal stuff like “you’ve never played at a high level”, which is irrelevant.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 3, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is, but that's still not a troll
A troll is someone who has no rooting interest and is just here to cause trouble
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, wrong word. No biggie.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 3, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm flagging him.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your spelling is poignant and correct.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 3, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Thursday’s loss to the Marlins, Carlos Zambrano pinch-hit in the eighth inning and singled with two outs. Could Cubs fans see more of their ace in that role?
“I hope not,” manager Lou Piniella said
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what?
in THIS game, he was the starting pitcher, and is expected to play his position. that includes hitting.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m perfectly happy to disagree with you on this issue, especially since it would appear that Lou agrees with me, or he wouldn’t keep sending Z out to pinch hit.
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't even know what this means.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I could comment on this
…but i haven’t played baseball at a high level
by mic on May 3, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes one wonder
What exactly is “high level”?
Does that mean he was the backup catcher for your beer league softball team or the starting pitcher?
by northernsails on May 3, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh God
If I have to start reading threads about guys and their “high level of baseball” I’m gonna puke. Just b/c someone played college ball or even “A” ball doesn’t make them an expert.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Jerry Hairston, Jr , for example.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personal attacks are not allowed on this site.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
$90 million for his hitting
Of course he didn’t get that money just because he’s a good hitter. But if the Cubs – the people who signed him to that contract – didn’t like his bat, they probably wouldn’t be using him to pinch hit.
by Old Style & Ivy on May 3, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's cart before the horse thinking.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a tad confused...
…how dragging a bunt into a single is “careless”? If I remember correctly, it was Zambrano’s “careless” bunt single that started our grand slam inning.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 3, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pray he doesnt end up on the DL….
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he could've pulled his hammy
running on the warning track to warm or stretching out a double.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Because I have no problem with hustle? OR because I know muscle strains happen even when you didn’t do anything wrong?
Interesting.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is avoidable… do yo uactually think that we pay hime millions to bunt or for that matter to hit above .50?
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs pay him millions to play
And playing to Carlos, and millions of NL fans, means the pitcher hits when its his spot and then hustles to force the defense to make a play.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll save my prayers
for more meaningful things.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z could go on the DL after breaking a bat over his leg after a stikeout
or pull a groin legging out a double or walking into the clubhouse.
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he could hit a TV like Kahlil Greene did last year.
Or he could walk through a glass door. Or he could trip on the club-house steps.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or kick a fan like Kyle Farnsworth did during a playoff race.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
aw
I miss him. So MUCH.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What was it you called him?
Drunky McTightpants?
by Allie on May 3, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
but I wish I had.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone here called him that or something close
Daver maybe.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that's a guy teams keep paying millions of dollars to play
and I have no idea why. The Royals just signed him for something like 9 million dollars for 2 years. Shockingly, he’s stunk this year.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's got great stuff
Everyone keeps thinking they’ll be the team he’s different for.
He’s like that boyfriend you keep trying to change and all he does is ask you to bail him out… again.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
is he my ex-wife?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at that game
Very hot, humid, and miserable. Oh, and the weather was uncomfortable too.
by CaliCub on May 3, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or break a hand on Michael Barret’s face.
by Villeslgr on May 3, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The breaking of the bat...........
………is akin to the bunting for a hit.
Simply stated: Bad baseball.
The legging out of the double, depending upon how much “legging” was involved, might also be bad baseball.
There’s a way to play the game intelligently and to see the bigger picture. A pitcher’s contributions at the plate are miniscule in comparison to their role on the hill.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry, but that just doesn’t make sense. He’s supposed to get on base. He’s a BATTER.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he is a pitcher
He should just go up there and watch 3 strikes and sit back down.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 3, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe the best thing to do
is not even let Z take a bat up to the plate with him. He has to be a batter, but that doesn’t mean we have to let him swing anything.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the way up to the point..........
……….where he’s unable to pitch.
Why doesn’t that register with you?
Why would you DEMAND a person place himself in harm’s way while performing a role that is far down the list of his DESIRED contributions to the overall good?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's a baseball player
it’s his job to play baseball.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was probably Z's decision to bunt
So if we’re going to play the blame game, point the finger at him.
by CaliCub on May 3, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But for the record, I'm glad he did it
It sparked a rally and showed baseball smarts.
by CaliCub on May 3, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the bench.
Where he wound up.
Where he likely would not have been had he taken his normal at-bat.
His normal at-bat in which, by everyone’s admission, many times provides good results.
But instead the BASEBALL PLAYER cost himself his primary job, by trying to exceed at a role that is far down the pecking order of his priorities.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't you get it?
This IS his normal at bat — doing what he thinks he needs to do to get on base!
His priority is to play to win. I don’t understand why this is so hard to get. He didn’t try to steal home. He didn’t pull a Ted Lilly and ram into a catcher — how come people weren’t all up in arms over THAT one? He did what he thought was best to get on base. He got injured, which happens from time to time, and it sucks, but I’d rather he play hard and get hurt every once in a while instead of being a flinchy princess like they got in the AL.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see both sides of the argument....
But my take on the situation…..is WHY are highly paid professional athletes pulling/straining (muscles) running the bases?
It goes to show the attitude of the organization……
I can see it happening from time to time….
BUT this is the 3rd cub in a month (Bradley, Ramierez and now Z) to have “strain” running the bases……I think it say somethig about the day to day preparation and conditioning of the team…. that is what “bothers” me…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on May 3, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the perfect ? for Reed's to answer
With all his playing experience, that should be something he will easily know.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth..........
………..Lilly’s play was foolish, much for the same reason Zambrano’s play was foolish.
Lilly was lucky that he was not hurt; unfortunately we can’t say the same for Z.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess millionaire ballplayers should not give anything extra
at the risk of injuring themselves and possibly missing a few games. They shouldn’t run over a catcher to avoid injury. They shouldn’t dive for a ball. They shouldn’t run hard to beat out a hit. They shouldn’t “hop” when catching a flyball.
Hmmmm….web gem or play everyday? Can’t…get….hurt.
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't compare pitchers and position players
Don’t you know pitchers are not resposnible for anything other than what they do on the mound?
by Allie on May 3, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone should be able to play everywhere.
That sounds right. Someone better show Fukudome how to strap on the “tools of ignorance” because I doubt he knows how.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know
it’s arguable that, for example, losing a player like Soriano or Fukudome is just as bad as losing Zambrano. You think this team hasn’t felt the loss of Ramirez? Maybe our star third baseman and most consistent hitter shouldn’t have legged out that double he got injured on.
Face it. You have a double standard.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Double standard?
Can you point that out, more clearly, anyway?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you kidding?
you consistently say “don’t compare position players to pitchers”. As if, somehow, a Zambrano is worth more than a Ramirez or a Soriano.
You have a double standard. Position players are expected to leg things out. When Rami or Sori or Gameboard loaf on a grounder, they get crucified. Carlos Zambrano takes an opportunity to produce and makes the most of it, and you’re worried he’s going to crack like a porcelain figurine.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I said that where?
Or even implied it?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
busted.
at 6:56pm on May 3, you said:
There are functions fundamental………..
………..to the roles of each player on the team, so your "apples and oranges" comparison really doesn’t hold water.
at 7:11 pm on May 3, you said:
The result of the play is meaningless.
The point of the play is foolish for a player in his position.
at 7:30 pm on May 3, you said:
In this case………
……….."someone" = the starting pitcher.
If "someone" was a speedster who has the skills and abilities to execute this play, then I have no problem with such actions.
At 1:19 pm on May 4, you said:
We’ve fleshed out…………
…….the apples-to-oranges comparison previously. Unfortunately it remains at the core of the discussion and apparently can’t be absorbed by some.
At 9:25 pm on May 3, you said:
But if a pitcher is reaching outside his bounds at the plate (a la trying to bunt for a hit), that’s not meeting his intended purpose in the game.
And then at 10:32 pm on May 3, you said:
Why do you compare position players to pitchers?
You are doing yourself a tremendous disservice by attempting to draw such parallels.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In what way is it a double standard?
There are standards for position players and standards for pitchers.
That’s not a double standard, it’s a distinction by role on the team.
If you think that is a double standard, then yes, I’ve been espousing a “double standard” the entire time.
You can’t seem to grasp that a pitcher needs to be thinking of his pitching ABOVE ALL, and therefore relegating his hitting to the back seat.
I AM A BASEBALL PLAYER. I HIT THE BALL. I PLAY HARD.
But that’s not the case. They have to protect their role as a pitcher first.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, they don't.
They’re national league ball players. That means they play their position and when their turn in the lineup comes up, they go and they bat and they dig out every ground ball.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
unbelievable.
Lilly did exactly the right thing at exactly the right time, and he is LIONIZED for hit.
Have you no passion for the game? Do amazing plays not give you a rush to watch?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing plays do.
Dumb plays don’t.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good thing
that Lilly’s bum-rush of Molina was just as amazing as Z’s bunt.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
W FLAG IS UP.......FISH are FRIED.....
Hope Z is o.k. we had just got done talking about injuries…….D. Lee hit like we know he can . Made the differance today . Todays game was not error free and that is something that can haunt a team,,,,,,Can’t help to wonder why Soto did not opt to get the runner out caught between home and third….Len and Bob were talking Saturday about the WBC and it’s effect on players …Gotta Make you wonder…..Cubs take the series…..
by cubs north on May 3, 2009 5:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Soto just didnt see him
The minute the ball left the bat soto had his eye on that ball and getting it too first. What should have happened is Z should taken a quick look up and alerted Soto to the runner.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 3, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could Soto have thought there were 2 outs in the inning?
by Employee22 on May 3, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Soto
was just pressing as much on D as he was on O. He seems very stressed.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not overly concerned about either one
By comparison, Brocail strained a hammy today for the Astros, was on the ground for a while and had to be helped off the field. If Z misses a start, so be it. Looks like if he misses any time at all, it won’t be much more than that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 5:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We should be worried if Z misses a start
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 5:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, we should.
But we don’t know yet what will happen. I’ll reserve judgment till then.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 3, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do I want him to miss a start? No
But it wouldn’t be the end of the world if he did.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d consider even if he could pitch Friday skipping him anyway to be safe.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by cubstoseriesby100 on May 3, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we don't even know the results
of the MRI yet. Let’s not worry about something till we know it’s an actual problem.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MRIs are routine in that situation, I think
Ramirez had one on his calf, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever the outcome, don't rush Z back
I’ll not forget when Sutcliffe was rushed back from a hamstring pull in May 1985 – he changed his motion and screwed up his shoulder for two years.
by CaliCub on May 3, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets just remember the "wonderful" start the 2008 World Series paticipants had
On May 3rd 2008.
Tampa Bay 16 -14
Philadelphia 17-14
2009
Cubs
13-11
Yes the Cardinals are playing wonderful ball right now… Great but turning the Calender back to 2008 we see The Diamondbacks where 21 – 9 on this date in 08, and they didnt even make the playoffs.
So what does this mean? Lets not get anywhere near the ledge yet
by Galvan316 on May 3, 2009 5:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Aww well thank you :)
I appreciate it very much
by Galvan316 on May 3, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's in the water witht the Cubs----leg muscle strains pandemic
Bradley, Ramirez, Marmol, Zambrano and a neck for Lee.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on May 3, 2009 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is almost like
watching an old episode of “Marcus Welby, M.D.”
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love
that Brolin charecter
"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"
by wild bill on May 3, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was a big fan
of the secretary, myself.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consuelo Lopez???
played by Elena Verdugo?
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
urns out he strained a hamstring, and who knows what that’ll mean for his next start. Z plays the game with passion and maybe this was an “I’ll show you guys what a bunt ought to look like!” moment, but he really needs to exercise more caution, because what happens if this moment puts him on the shelf for two weeks or longer?
We deal with it. Zambrano is paid to play baseball. This is the National League, and pitchers are expected to play just as hard as position players. They bat, hit and run. Zambrano is a ball-player. There’s no use in trying to keep him down; he won’t do it anyway. It’s like wrestling a pig.
Besides, I like having a pitcher who is such a competitor.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 5:57 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Overall, I was much, much more concerned about Z’s shoulder issues last year than I am about this.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
He is a competitor and I expect this from him, just gotta hope it doesnt shelve him for long if at all.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 3, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's one thing to play hard...........
………..it’s another thing to play stupid by trying to make plays that are not within the realm of reality.
There’s no reason Z should be trying to lay down a bunt for a hit. This is foolhardy on his part, and in his zeal to “get another hit”, he may have cost himself a start (or more). Whether he actually misses time or not, is moot, in my opinion, because it’s only a matter of time before this idiot hurts himself trying to do more than required FOR HIS POSITION.
Too bad he doesn’t try as hard when he’s called upon to SACRIFICE BUNT, a role that he should be routinely preparing himself for.
I’m all about having a pitcher who is competitive, but show it on the mound. He sure could have taken a lesson from either of the #31’s today.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll continue to disagree
he wanted to get his team fired up, and he got the job done.
And I don’t cotton to calling him an idiot, either.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he fired the team up?
And you have proof of that?
Ah, Lee’s granny was a direct result of Z’s lunacy. Shoulda known.
Far more likely the players in the dugout felt depressed watching their ace waddle off the field.
I’ll back away from “idiot” if you accept “4-inch thick cranium” in its stead.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
no deal. Zambrano is a competitor and a player. The double-standard around here is a amazing. If Bradley or Soriano had laid down that bunt, or hit a dribbler up the third base line and NOT legged it out, everyone would be screaming, even though a tweaked leg would be a BIGGER deal to a position player’s ability to play.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Monday-morning quarterbacks
always are right, drew. You must not have gotten the memo. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are functions fundamental...........
………..to the roles of each player on the team, so your “apples and oranges” comparison really doesn’t hold water.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, there are
fundamental functions to the roles of each player on the team.
In the National League, one of the functions for pitchers is HITTING.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that's true.
Risking injury to beat out a bunt when baserunning is not one of your best skills is, to me, not the best idea.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 3, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, ok.
I don’t disagree with that. But he was just legging out a bunt. Every player is expected to do that.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every player?
Even those without good baserunning speed?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 3, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ortiz
Didn’t Ortiz bunt for a base hit in response to the shift a couple of years ago? If David Ortiz can do it, anyone can.
by Old Style & Ivy on May 3, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHEN NO ONE IS FIELDING THIRD!!!!!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they're expected to leg out
ground balls. Milton Bradley took flak for NOT running out ground balls when he was injured, for pete’s sake!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, every players is exected to run hard to 1st base.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what a different tone you use with Al
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on May 3, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes.
perhaps you could learn something from that.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
that you can be decent occasionally?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on May 4, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that respect engenders respect.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
only if you show repect to all, not selectively
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on May 4, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you're still not getting it.
you reap what you sow.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I fully understand.........
but my point was your respectful response to Al differs from your normal responses to others.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on May 4, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone
gets the response they deserve.
I think it’s interesting that you’re constantly clamoring about the Commenting Police, but you’re spending most of your time talking about other people’s comments, and not the substance therein.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is obvious..........
EVERYONE that disagrees with the you and the establishment are met with disrespect and ridicule. And yes, I respond to other people’s comments, and agree or disagree with the substance within, so what’s so horrible about that? If I’m in agreement all is well, but dare to disagree and the Commenting Police come out of the woodwork.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on May 4, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
once again
right over your head. I disagree with Worf in the other thread, but he’s questioning if I have enough “high level” baseball experience.
I disagree with other people all the time.
And lately, all you’ve BEEN is Comment Police. “Well, that’s not what you said to X”. Get over it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think my initial point went over your head....
disagreement is Ok, in fact, if we all agreed it would be boring as hell, but it’s the disrespect and ridicule a newbie receives from the establishment that gets old, and quite frankly, stirs the pot. As to my comment you quoted, it was a debate among many and it was my opinion/comment that X contradicted him/her self. What’s so horrible about that?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on May 4, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
plenty of newbies get along just fine here.
I was one two years ago.
You’re still not getting it. You’re not discussing a possible contradiction between two posts. You’re harping on your perceptions of who is being nice to whom.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not perception dude........
it’s reality, and I refuse to drink your kool-aid.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on May 4, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not offering you any.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, by the way, one of your buddies, Cubbie-Tim.........
is the consummate Comment Police. So why is he not wrong for doing so?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on May 4, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Legging it out
I can think of a number of instances where Zambrano has tried to beat out infield hits without incident before.
Look, it’s unfortunate that he tweaked his hamstring, but I don’t think there was any real good reason to think it would happen. It’s an occupational hazard.
by Old Style & Ivy on May 3, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds about right to me.
Of course, I’m also a person who thinks that the hyper-specialization in baseball, while rational, is a bad thing for the sport.
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 3, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude we are on the same page :)
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
difference is they play every day and are expected to be quick down the line
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so are pitchers.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
only in your world...not in lou's or jim's
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
you’re free to disagree. But Lou values hitting. You cannot pretend that this is not the case. If it were, he wouldn’t use Z as a pinch hitter.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please..........
…….enough. Keep your opinion, but it differs greatly with the experts (and I’m not claiming to be one)
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is Lou an expert?
national league pitchers are expected to bat, hit, bunt, and run to first base.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your really obsessed with this aren't you
Would have you felt this way if he hadn’t pulled his hamstring?
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he hadn't pulled his hamstring
everyone would be applauding his aggressiveness.
It’s amazing to me. A thoughtless or “egotistical” Zambrano would have refused to come out of the game when he realized that he was hurt. Z made the play, thought he was ok, took his lead and realized he wasn’t, and came out of the game to reduce the chances of worsening his injury. His bunt directly led to the rally that won the game. There’s absolutely NOTHING to question here.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong.
Again.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously
I disagree.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't noticed!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except when Al said it was a bad idea.
You agreed with his position that Z should have not been making that kind of play.
Hmm………Al, how do you do it?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, I didn't.
in fact, I clearly disagreed with him.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Al says..........
“Risking injury to beat out a bunt when baserunning is not one of your best skills is, to me, not the best idea.”
To which you respond………
“Well okay. I don’t disagree with that”
Sorry I had to confront you with your own words.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I -don't- disagree with it.
But I disagree that this was a bad play to make. And you’ve quoted only one part of the conversation, thus leaving the context in the rubble. Very well played, Comrade Stalin, but I don’t subscribe to Pravda.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad.
Yah, you really laid into Al with your reubttal.
Joke……….
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagreed with him
If you don’t like the tone of responses to your comments, perhaps you should think about why that happens.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes... every time he does something outside of throwing 8 strong... i worry bout him
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow you must worry a lot then.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's unfortunate...........
………..because we all should.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
yeah, ok. In the end, it’s baseball. We’re not talking about supplies not getting to troops in afghanistan if Zambrano misses a start.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry if I wasn't clear.........
……….but we should all worry about Zambrano.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my previous
statement stands.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow you must have a very easy life
If worrying about Z takes up that much of your time.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oddly enough..........
………..it doesn’t occupy that much of my time, but as a fan, which I presume we all are, we should be worried.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You worry too much. Life is too
short to worry about what happens on a baseball field. It’s a game. It’s just entertainment. Worry that your children might get killed by a drunken driver. That’s what I worry about. That’s important.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 4, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've got better things to worry about
than Zambrano’s health status minute by minute during a game.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too
damn I’m agreeing w/ you twice in one day.
Now I might start worrying about that LOL
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unequivocally YES.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
31s
One of those two 31s hit 13 homers in his Cubs career. He wasn’t exactly averse to trying to hit the ball out.
by Old Style & Ivy on May 3, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, but............
……….how many times did he try to bunt for a hit? That’s what’s on trial here.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers bunting for hits
Pitchers try to bunt for hits all the time. Harden and Dempster have both tried to do it this very season. Because they practice laying down bunts and they’re fairly good at it. It’s not uncommon, and it’s not a sign of immaturity.
by Old Style & Ivy on May 3, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z fakes bunt all of the time.
He draws the infielders in (and lessens their range) and if they don’t, he bunts.
Sounds like a good strategy to me.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fakes make sense.
No problem trying to get the defense on edge, but risking your next start as a pitcher for a base hit really lacks forethought.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How would the fake work...
if he never actually bunted?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 3, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's mental.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the threat of a fake bunt
doesn’t work unless you actually bunt from time to time.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BINGO!!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i seem to remember
Maddux laying down surprise bunts for a hit on several occasions
by kodypuckett23 on May 3, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it wasn’t in the realm of reality how did he get on base?
by Villeslgr on May 3, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why don't you tell us what you really think of Mr. Zambrano?
Whether he actually misses time or not, is moot, in my opinion, because it’s only a matter of time before this idiot hurts himself trying to do more than required FOR HIS POSITION.
tville, Al has an interesting request of people that comment, don’t say anything you wouldn’t say to someone’s face. I would really enjoy watching you say this to Carlos’ face. You’re opinion of what happened in today’s game is obviously prejudiced by how you judge him as an individual. It’s really unfortunate to see a Cubs fan have so little respect for a player that obviously loves to play the game and gives his best effort every time he takes the field. The next time you do something at your job, if you have one, that results in a different outcome than you would have liked I hope someone comes up to you and screams in your face that you are an idiot.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 3, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have little respect.............
………..for some of the decisions Zambrano makes on the field.
Candidly speaking, I would have no problem raising these points directly to him because if no one has so far, someone really should.
That said, I have respect for the man, the person, his accomplishments, and thus my only criticisms of him are based upon his actions in the public eye while playing for the Cubs.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually calling someone and idiot is not criticism based upon actions in the public eye, it's name calling.
To engage in this sort of name calling simply demonstrates that a person lacks information to back up their opinion. Frankly, I don’t see any point in even debating the opinion of someone that has such an obvious prejudice against a player like you evidently do with Zambrano.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on May 3, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nonetheless.........
……….I’ll stick by everything I’ve said, and trust me when I say I have more than enough info to formulate my opinion, an opinion shared by others who cross this site.
After all, you should have the same inf on Zambrano: Shows up own players during the game if he they make a bad play, snaps bats over his legs, spontaneous fits of rage, striking teammates in public, and now careless hitting/base running. All of these things reflect his poor style as a player and all have taken place on the field.
So if anyone is prejudice it is you, ATP. You can’t see the truth, apparently.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
showing up players during the game?
what are you TALKING about?
Arguably, that punch to Michael Barrett’s face helped turn that team around. And it takes two to tango. Didn’t Prince Fielder go off on one of his co-players in a Cubs game last year?
Snapping the bats, eh. It’s not the best thing he could do. I’d prefer he do that than punch walls.
Zambrano has exhibited neither careless hitting nor careless baserunning.
Let’s see. Aramis Ramirez is prone to slamming his bat to the ground when he strikes out in a clutch position. And he injured his calf legging out a double. I know you’re going to bring the false double standard of position player vs. pitcher to the table, but that doesn’t cut it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haven't you claimed to watch Cubs games?
Are you telling me you have never seen Zambrano storm around the mound after a bad play in the field. Are you saying you’ve not witnessed him staring out towards a player who’s make a fielding blunder.
Bury your head in the sand if you wish, but these are FACTS documented on film.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course I have.
and if you watched last night’s game, you’ll see that he did neither of those things.
He talked to Soto about it in the dugout, and then went out and got on base, which started the rally that won the game.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice of you boil down the "Z".........
………to one game.
When weak, grasp at straws.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
because progress isn’t visible when you don’t want to see it.
Talk about grasping at straws.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good one..........progress!
Well he didn’t “call anyone out” (and now likely won’t for several weeks), but his bonehead play is now proving to be very boneheaded.
And please, remember, I’ve clearly stated his bunt play would be wrong all the time.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But film of same does.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, I actually agree on some points
Zamrbano has a lot of growing up to do.
I disagree regarding the bunt, but the larger point is, all the hositility that went on in this thread is going to obscure any point that ANYONE is trying to make.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 4, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
There are 2 sides of this argument, and at this point there isn’t much left to argue about cause neither side is going to budge.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 4, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Badger/jkobus.........
………..I agree fully.
I’ll attend to any remaining slams and then I’m out.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Getting onto a player for, essentially, hustling seems very silly to me.
by kanderber on May 3, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's put things into context.
It’s one thing to hustle down the line on a “routine” ground ball. That’s playing the game hard.
It’s quite another thing to force the situation through a play that will assuredly lead to exertion beyond the norm.
Further, did anyone ever notice Greg Maddux charging down the line on ground ball outs? Rarely. He was smart enough to understand his role, and to exert foolish energy running the bases (to say nothing of trying to bunt for a hit) was not the reason he was on the team.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me get this straight
If Zambrano doesn’t beat out the throw, then it’s playing the game hard. But since he did, it’s “forcing the situation”? You’ve got to be kidding me.
"Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them, well, I have others." - Groucho Marx
by Keith on May 3, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The result of the play is meaningless.
The point of the play is foolish for a player in his position.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
“The result of the play is meaningless.” Let’s just stop playing baseball, because the result of the play is meaningless! Everything is meaningless! You’re such an existentialist, Albert Camus trembles in your presence!
"Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them, well, I have others." - Groucho Marx
by Keith on May 3, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you would prefer...........
……….to exchange a 5th inning bunt single for your ace starting pitcher, I’d appreciate you getting a managerial gig with any NL Central team.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems to me
You think that every time someone runs out a bunt single, they’re going to get injured. Of course I don’t want to exchange a 5th inning bunt single for a good pitcher, but you have to take risks in baseball. Every time you step into the batter’s box or onto the field there’s a chance of injury, and the same thing applies to legging out a bunt single. 99 times out of 100, there won’t be an injury. This was the 1 time that something happened.
"Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them, well, I have others." - Groucho Marx
by Keith on May 3, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this case.........
………..“someone” = the starting pitcher.
If “someone” was a speedster who has the skills and abilities to execute this play, then I have no problem with such actions.
As Harry Callahan said, “A man’s got to know his limitations”, but alas, our Mighty Z may never come to grips with that.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's why
as a starting pitcher, last year he batted .337, with 4 home runs and 14 runs batted in.
THAT, my friend is a starting pitcher in the National League.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must really dig............
……….Rick Ankiel.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he used to just pitch.
But now he’s a complete BASEBALL PLAYER!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tville
is being a dork.
There’s nothing to understand.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe not
but I was trying.
And instead I got snippy answers or called a martian.
This place is so FUN after a win.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's usually not like this Allie
wasn’t like this yesterday, for example… :)
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Usually the borg.......
………goes uncorrupted with all participants viewing things in the same fashion.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're not reading this site
with any kind of discerning eye if you think there’s group-think going on.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our mighty Z has always shown that he wants to win. If there was a problem with him trying to bunt himself on I would suspect that Lou would talk to him about it so that it doesn’t happen again. I however can’t fault a guy doing his hardest to help his team win.
by Villeslgr on May 3, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect Lou will have that conversation.........
………in private.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have no
clue if Lou will talk to him.
by sue369 on May 3, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you do?
Well, since you do, what do you think?
I’m on pins!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not the
one claiming to know what Lou will do.
by sue369 on May 3, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the result of the play
is a two run lead at the end of the game instead of a one run lead at the end of the game. Z had just seen the score tied. He was looking to give his team an advantage. He did that, and it paid off.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said previously.............
…………I realize he triggered the entire inning, propelling DLee to clout a grand slam, a feat he likely would not have accomplished had he not seen his team’s ace leaving the field in injured fashion.
Z’s play also caused Gload to make the error on the Fukudome ball allowing the bases to fill for the granny. Truly amazing!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're being silly.
Lee might have hit that home-run, he might not have. But the fact that it was a grand slam, rather than a 3-run home run is rightfully to Zambrano’s credit.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am being silly, but..........
………..you’ve painted a picture of Z firing up the team and leading the charge to victory. I think that’s far, far from the case.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he started the rally
that won the game. I don’t see how you can argue with that.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs did win.
That is true.
But Z put his team in peril because he had to leave, and he might have done greater damage if he misses starts or this crops up later in the season.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you make it out
like he intended to get injured.
You leg out grounders. It’s one of the fundamentals of baseball that we teach in little league. Where even the pitchers bat.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Legging out a routine ground ball...........
………..is not the same as trying to bunt for a hit.
How is this concept lost on so many?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
playing the game
with intensity and on both sides of the plate is a requirement in the National League.
That’s the only concept necessary.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In your dictionary............
………..there must be a fine line between “intensity” and “stupidity”.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's times like these
when I wish that people on this board were forced to defend their opinions about the players to the players. I’d love to see you call Zambrano stupid to his face.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
too bad you'll
never get the chance.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's easy to say you will.......
when you won’t get a change. Put him in the players parking lot w/ “his high level of baseball experience” and I bet things are a lot different.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whatever …. sorry to point out a fact that people who have played at a “high” level look T THE GAME A DIFFERENT WAY than those who havent
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then what's your "high level" experience
that I should be so impressed with?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure he's a former major league player
b/c what else could be high level expeience. Or maybe he’s a b aseball scout.
LOL
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i forgot i am dealing with experts
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one has called themselves an expert here
I’m just a fan.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no your the one who said you had
the high level experience…. none of us have said that. We are just curious what your high level of experience is?
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
played in college with against major leaguers
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
played in MLB sponsored wood bat leagues during summers
played with coaches who have won championships
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB sponsors Little League, too
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what major leaguers
play against college players?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here we go again....
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dood
YOU are the one who is bringing up “qualifications”. I haven’t said I know more than you. I haven’t called you a martian. I haven’t called you an idiot, I haven’t called you stupid, I haven’t called you unqualified. We disagree about how the game should be played, apparently, but don’t make this out like we’re somehow on equal sides in how we’re treating the person on the other end of the conversation, because we are absolutely, unequivocally NOT.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reed's Johnson
With a name like “Reed’s Johnson,” I’m really doubting that he is any older than 15… I am not so sure I can believe the “high level of baseball experience”
by mic on May 3, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, Jerry Hairston, Jr
One of the most lacking in baseball smarts I’ve seen. And his father was a big-leaguer, too.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Ben, too
This isn’t rocket science. I can see from repeated head-first dives into first, running bases poorly, etc that he’s not skilled with baseball smarts.
Depsite what you may want to believe, physical ability doesn’t translate into mental acuity concerning that with which you may have physical ability.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously you have never met him… but thinking you know him.. all athletes are dumb jocks
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did he say that?
no, he did not say that.
Physical ability does not automatically equate to mental ability.
THAT’s what he said. Kyle Farnsworth can throw faster than Greg Maddux. Ronny Cedeno can run faster than Greg Maddux. Neither are smarter baseball players than Greg Maddux.
And Greg Maddux bunted LOTS of times, and he legged them all out.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sums it up nicely, actually
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like to give myself a hand
from time to time. Not that there’s anything WRONG with that…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't usually admit that in public....
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We feel the times call for it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hello, Mr. Strawman!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you beg for a situation..............
………only to throw back that someone will never get the chance?
He was an idiot for doing what he did and his teammates know it as well. But there’s no point saying something to this guy because he’s unwilling to accept criticism from anyone on anything at any time.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they never had team mates..wouldnt know this
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because saying
that I haven’t played college ball means I’ve never been on a team?
Sure, THAT makes sense. Not. As a matter of fact, I’ve been on many teams, and I’ve had to make tactical and strategic decisions of my own, for my team, on the fly, without being able to take advantage of a time-out. So really, I don’t think you’ve got anything on me here.
Support your opinion without denigrating other people. You’ll do better.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you have denigrated my opinion on z from the start – practice what u preach
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not at all.
I disagree with you. I think that you want to treat pitchers like they’re china dolls. I disagree with this. I think you think that Zambrano is mental, and incapable of being a team player. I disagree with this.
But that’s based on what you’re SAYING. You suggesting that I’m not capable of commenting on this because I didn’t play college ball, or because I’ve never known what it’s like to be on a team is based on no knowledge on your part.
They’re two different things. I trust that you will take this into consideration moving forward.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, i think our opinion differs greatly becaase of our backgrounds
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
find a way to explain that, then
without making it sound like you think I’m less of person for not having participated in MLB charity games.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would be easier if you didnt attack every opinion that was not yours from the start
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would be easier
if you recognized that I don’t.
HOW you say something is just as important as WHAT you say.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oy vey iz mir.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, he compared you to a martian
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well maybe
but still kinda rich for him to claim being attacked while he runs around saying people are from another planent.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, don't get me wrong
I think he’s way over the top with this, and the “I played ball so I know better” crap is incredibly arrogant — and misguided.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL… at least i have solid basis for my opinion
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, you really don't
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont you recognize that line from bull durham?
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
does that make us bad fans too?
if we don’t get Bull Durham quotes?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no it makes you bad fans if you think that z’s role is to be a complete player…
we will win the division on his arm not bat
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
every player
in the National League is expected to be a complete player. That is why we we not have the DH. Every player bats.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
please … are we expecting harden tto hit?
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes.
that’s why he bats.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes yeah
I’m expecting Harden to put together a decent AB where he doesn’t hurt the team doing whatever he’s capable of doing, whether thats sacrificing a runner over or hitting a bomb to CF…
by Allie on May 3, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's been a while since I've seen it
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the worst you have been called is a martian,, you are having a good day..
you probably think dodge ball should be banned in school too
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you getting personal?
Seriously. Knock it off.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are redicluous
that line is from bull durham
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, Allie you
Sue has a Hawkeye icon
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
maybe its YOUR funny thats broken.
LMAO
by Allie on May 3, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bwa ha ha
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are
You are calling people names, you are belittling other opinons and you are generally being rude.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only people who are rude here are you guys who dont agree with tville and i so you attack
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait
it’s rude for us to DISAGREE with you???
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"You guys"?
Go and read all the comments I’ve posted in this thread. Most of them have been stupid jokes in an attempt to diffuse the tension.
I really don’t know why you are taking this so personally.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know maybe
since we are obviously not to your level of baseball expertise… you should call some of your major league buddies and ponder it with them.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what the heck
does dodge ball have to do with anything?
Besides, if Z was caught playing dodge ball, you’d have a coronary.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again a joke... no sense of humor from u
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
say someting
that’s actually funny, and I’ll laugh.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if your "humor" read any differently
from the other stuff you say we might recognize it.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of it is the tone where this has already gone
It’s all coming across as serious
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
is
getting
hard
to
read
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 3, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's simply no reason
to criticize Z for playing to win.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why doesn't he?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
!!!!
that’s precisely what legging out a bunt is DOING.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As he staggers......
………off the field, unable to continue.
Tell me, how does one win when one does not contribute?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he DID contribute.
“[Zambrano] laid down a perfect bunt, and he was motoring to first,” Piniella said. “That’s one of the reasons we scored four runs that inning.”
On Saturday, Piniella defended using Zambrano as a pinch-hitter, which he did in both Friday’s and Saturday’s games, because the team is shorthanded.
“What are we supposed to do?” Piniella said on Sunday. “He laid down a perfect bunt. He hurts his hamstring, but what can you do? I thought it was a really good play. The third baseman was giving him a base hit, and he dropped it down.”
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He threw 5 decent innings
and score one of the runs from a grand slam.
how does that = contribution?
by Allie on May 3, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh??
I’m thoroughly confused. You’re saying that had Z hit a chopper to the SS, you would be fine with him busting it down the line. Yet by “forcing the situation” by laying down a bunt, his hustle is somehow not justified. Am I reading that right? That’s some awful logic if so.
by kanderber on May 3, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not what I'm saying.
Read further to my Maddux comments below.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tville...
- notice you are the only one arguing this point right now
by kodypuckett23 on May 3, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So?
If you could get all 30 MLB managers – or for that matter a dozen minor league ones – they’d be supporting my point as well.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1000% - true - to think other wise is idiotic
Q – would you rather have your all star pitcher make 35 starts or mess around pitch hitting and dragging bunts?
Hmmmmmmm…..
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
These are not mutually exclusive.
In fact, they’re done every day by players across the country without injury.
by redward on May 3, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Piniella's postgame comments disagreed, if I heard correctly
So, maybe 29 managers. I doubt it, though.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO SAY PUBLICLY?
As a former player do you really expect Lou to call him out?
C’mon. No chance.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
He’s called out players before.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But this is a bit different.
I think to call Z out on this one would really question Z’s smarts, and I’ve not seen him challenge guys like that. Maybe he’s done it, but I’ve never seen him do it publicly.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's commented when he thought decisions were questionable
Fontenot out at third last month in the 9th, IIRC
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently we're psychoanaylizing Z again
He couldn’t “handle” it if Lou called him out.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noted, but..........
………..there’s more at play in this case then basic right/wrong. Lou feels the need to play this down because Z is involved.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so
you know Lou personally? Gonna get together after the game for a coupla brewskis? I know, you were introduced by reed’s johnson, who met Lou while playing an MLB charity game in Topeka.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I said I do......
……..you wouldn’t believe me, so I won’t bite on your comments.
But earlier it was okay for you to know the ENTIRE CUBS TEAM because you’ve been all so sure that Z’s bunt fired up the squad.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
once again
you can SEE how his bunt helped. The guy who pinch ran for him was knocked in by a grand slam home run. Thus, it was part of the game-winning rally.
Visible evidence is very helpful.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It got them a run....
…….but may have cost them an arm.
You do the math. In a game where they would have won by a run without “Z’s run”, would it be better to see The Shark trotting out for Zambrano’s remaining starts?
It’s all about risk and reward and you simply don’t want to acknowledge that point.
Just like you won’t acknowledge how you knew Z sparked the team rally. C’mon, give us the secret.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't know that they would have won without the bunt.
we DO know that they won the game WITH the bunt and WITHOUT his arm.
Remaining starts? Do you think you could scream Chicken Little a bit louder? They can’t hear you in Topeka.
Zambrano MAY miss ONE start. The results of the MRI aren’t back yet.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
An MRI is not needed...........
……….to confirm the absurdity of his actions.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oboy.
you really are pinwheeling now.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should we just forfit all runs..
… that may result in a player being injured?
Blah blah blah, pitchers vs fielders… you tell me the loss of Fukudome or Soriano right now wouldn’t result in as many W’s or L’s as Z’s injury. Should THEY not run hard?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've fleshed out............
…….the apples-to-oranges comparison previously. Unfortunately it remains at the core of the discussion and apparently can’t be absorbed by some.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've acknowleged the other side.
Repeatedly. Many here think it was a wise play. I disagree.
In fact, I’ve said, repeatedly, it is not a wise play – EVER – and supported it with valid points.
And I get in response ME BASEBALL PLAYER; ME HIT BALL; PLAY IN NL; EVEN PITCHER HIT BALL: ALL RUN HARD.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
valid
that word doesn’t appear to mean what you think it does.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please stop acting
like you know what Lou wants. You are just ridiculous.
by sue369 on May 3, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Drew knowing..........
……….what the players all feel, I thought I’d jump on the side of management.
If you have something meaningful to add, I’m all ears (or eyes in this case).
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You also said
you know what his teammates were thinking too. Care to share how you know that as a fact?
by sue369 on May 3, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drew told me.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um
have you watched many of Lou’s post-game conferences? When he has a problem with a player, he doesn’t hesitate to talk about it. Many people noted how he spoke about his conversation with Milton Bradley — particularly, how Bradley was expected to leg out grounders.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like to say things that are 100%
impossible to prove as well.
For example, the people of Jupiter find me more attractive than most humans.
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 3, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you mean
that fewer humans find you attractive than Jupiterians, or you’re REALLY what they’re looking for? :P
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drew, I think that's "Jovians" . . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, sure
get all classist on me.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We usually call ourselves Floridians
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on May 3, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if you're from Tampa???
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hope there's not a butcher around....
or you’ll have a bunch of bloody…..
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on May 3, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah touche.
That explains why Venutians often criticize my sentence construction.
I think the Jovians think of me as Fabio…but smaller and more Irish.
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 3, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least they don't think you're Vanilla Ice
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ooooh
Aye, I lurve Teeny O’Fabio.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HEY....I'm from Jupiter!
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on May 3, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like a pitcher that makes 35 dominant starts – not one that bunts for base hits
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon. Don't be silly.
We need BASEBALL PLAYERS, not pitchers!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes for a NL pitcher to have a
“dominant” start they have to help themselves by handling the bat. Whether thats getting on base for the big guns or getting a bunt down to move runners…
by Allie on May 3, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Santana won a tight game late last season by hitting a double to drive in a run
And in the National League when you have a spot in the lineup, you need to be able to do SOMETHING otherwise you don’t stay in the game very long.
Yolvani Gallardo (who has dominant stuff) won a game just last week by hitting a GW HR to break a score less tie.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does no one see the difference............
………..in hitting a double or HR versus trying to leg out a bunt?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z got on base
Doing what a guy with a bat in his hand is supposed to try to do.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Missed the point completely.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your first miss............
……….was that Zambrano had to leave the game all for the sake of trying to reach base.
But the bigger miss will come when he has to miss starts because of such foolishness.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+10000000000000
but lets get one run instead of make the next 5 starts
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you play the game you're in
not the game in the future. Remember when Lou pulled Z in Game 1 of 07 to “save” him for Game 4, except there WAS no Game 4?
Yeah, I remember it too. I bet Lou does.
You play the game you’re in.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
playoffs vs 162 game season… again you think small picture
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playoffs would be the biggest picture
right?
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you play the game you're in.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to get to the playoffs.
I have an idea. Let’s keep Z cryogenically frozen until October so he’s in pristine condition.
by redward on May 3, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand why you're so outraged
that a major league baseball player… got hurt playing baseball.
If he’d pulled a Harang and missed starts because of Guitar Hero, THEN be pissed off. But he tried to do the right thing.
And I hope he doesn’t miss any time… but if he does, I hope he comes back and plays just as hard.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope he doesnt hurt himself trying to be a hero in any hitting situation… he gets paid to pitch …if he doesnt pitch he is useless
do you really think we pay him to hit in any capacity?
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we pay him to play
And his main job is pitching… but you stay in games in the NL by being able to add to the offense in a meaningful way.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again go ask ANY NL GM
you pay him to pitch …. that is IT!
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AND he continues to pitch in a game when
he didn’t have his best stuff by being able to do SOMETHING with a bat.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
when he doesnt have his best stuff he gets pulled and a pinch hitter comes up
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
arguing with you is like trying to explain a fungo to a martian
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of curiousity...
Why would a martian have more difficulty understanding what a fungo is than anything else?
by CubsWin!Oregon on May 3, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good question
I would think the Martian would have more trouble with the balk rule.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
personally THIS martian has a bigger problem with Dick Stockton still getting announcing gigs while everyone else gets laid off.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But do you have an X-24 Space Modulator?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where is the giant KABOOM?
There’s supposed to be a giant KABOOM!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
naw
infield fly rule. That sucker makes NO sense. :P
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost went with that one
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now you're losing it, Allie.
ABSOLUTELY NO MANAGER KEEPS A PITCHER IN THE GAME IF HE’S THROWING POORLY, BUT MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE A GOOD AT-BAT.
That just doesn’t happen. Not on this planet.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
So 6th inning. Trailing by 1. Tough pitcher on the mound for hypothetical other team. Tying run on 2nd. Your pitcher AB with a PC of 88. You can PH for him there and maybe get that run in and have to go to your pen for the rest of the game, or you can trust your pitcher to put the ball in play.
Which do you think most Managers do?
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
depends if the game is 1-0 2-1 3-2 -4-4 5-4-67-7-8
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it does
its a 1 run game.
Does your pitcher’s ability on offense matter then? or do you burn him and go ’pen?
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it sure does matter
4-3 and above he is gone likely
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No it doesnt
He’s at 88 pitches. You could get another inning at least out of him or you could burn him b/c his offense ability doesn’t matter.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Johnson.............
………is a career .125 hitter, but I suspect he was able to last late into ballgames because of his pitching ability.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we pay him to win games...
… and while pitching is the main way he can help, he’s a pretty darn good batter as well. Yesterday, he used a secondary tool to help win a game. The fact that ANYBODY is begrudging him for that is absurd. He HAPPENED to get hurt doing it. So be it. He, lou, and most of the rest of us wouldn’t have it any other way.
They second you stop working hard at ALL aspects of your job is the second you aren’t earning your paycheck. I’m damn good at using MS Excel, and i make documents my entire organization finds useful… should i stop using Photoshop as well, just outright refuse to do that part of my job, because its a smaller part of my job and all that clicking and all those shortcuts MIGHT give me carpel tunnel?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. Use it all.
But would you endanger your Excel skills at the expense of handling Photoshop, something that is marginally important to your tasks?
That’s the point. Do what you can do, but don’t lose sight of your primary objective.
Zambrano’s prime objective is to pitch, but he couldn’t answer the bell in the 6th. Seems like he missed the point on doing his job properly.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again
you appear to be assuming that he went out of his way to get injured. That’s not the case. Usually, he makes that run just fine. Carlos Zambrano runs to first a LOT. He does it on defense, he does it on offense. He just happened to tweak himself this time. If he’d done it on a defensive play, would you be saying “wow, I wish he didn’t have to run to first?” Of course not.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you can find any reference..........
……….of mine reflecting Z trying to get injured, I’ll buy you a beer – or a dozen.
Poor judgment is what’s being discussed here.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the poor judgement
of a batter trying to reach base?
Come ON.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he should lean into pitches.........
……….especially when hitting from the left side?
That would be good judgment, if I ready you correctly.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he should play
to win. that means getting on base, pitching well, running well, hitting well.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you answer my question?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have answered your question.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you feel he should lean into a pitch?
That is the question.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Asked and answered.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess my ESP skills.......
…………are lacking.
Simple yes or no would suffice, but since your position is indefensible, you’re left to pathetic replies.
I know “uncle” when I hear it.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
only because you're saying it.
You asked your question. I answered it. I’m certainly not surprised that you don’t like the answer.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go getting on base.......
…….by leaning into a pitch is okay and something he should do.
Please confirm.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
asked and answered
over and over again.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said.........
…….I know uncle when I see it.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really
should get your eyes checked then.
by sue369 on May 4, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
those are in frequent – name a pitcher in the last 30 yrs that has one a world series wit his hitting
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
won a world series?
you’re asking about thirty pitchers. At most. Give me a break. You have to GET THERE FIRST. You GET THERE by WINNING.
This is, in the end, a really stupid conversation. If he hadn’t gotten hurt, no one would be complaining. Except you, I suppose, because you worry when he doesn’t go 8 innings, and he hasn’t gone 8 innings since, I believe, last year during the no-hitter.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know tickets stuff is supposed to go in the ticket exchange threads but...
…the comments are closed for the Ticket Exchanges: April 30-May 5 Homestand exchange thread. Al, can you re-open them?
And when comments are re-opened, I’ll be posting that I have at least 2 bleachers (maybe 3 or 4) available for the Tuesday afternoon game against the Giants. Trade for another game later this year or sell for $25 face (plus conv fee). I’ll also be posting that you can e-mail me at vangeloff (at) hotmail (dot) com. Or you can beat the rush and e-mail me now. I’m heading out for awhile but will respond to any takers late tonight.
And yes, I wore my Cubs hat again today (I’m 3-0) and will wear it again tomorrow, even though my Indians have lost two in a row. But Al says I have to take one for the team, so I will.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 3, 2009 6:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll reopen the comments.
And keep that Cubs cap on!
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 3, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Per ESPN
Zambrano was taken to hospital for MRI. Results will be known tomorrow.
What I don’t understand is why Lou came out, talked to the trainer, went back in, then took Z out and then sent Harden—who was as ready as my wife to enter the game—to pinch-run. Looked confusing.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on May 3, 2009 6:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
heh didn't want to use
an actual position player, since the bench is so thin.
On the other hand, he could have used Gathright, who is hitting worse than most of our pitchers, right now, with a batting average of .111, and and OPS+ of… -16.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pardon
not -16. -18.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
But did Lou think Z was OK? Whatever did O’Neil say to him? Why the confusion?
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on May 3, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
I was at the ballpark w/o convenient explanations from Pat or Len.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on May 3, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
word from len & bob
was that Z thought he was fine until he tried to lead off with the next pitch, and couldn’t get a good jump. You could see him motion to the dugout that he needed to come out of the game.
by TC Cubby on May 3, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately the radio............
…………was being broadcast by Dumb and Dumber, so ZERO information made its way out over the air waves. Thanks for the insight, TC.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Listening to Judd Sirott can drive a person over the edge.
Name calling isn’t necessary but could we please just get a clear description of what is happening on the field?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I called them by their given names...........
………..I’d still be calling them a name.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly more clever...........
……….than your witticism.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't know.
Maybe O’Neil said “he says he’s ok”, and Lou wanted to make sure. Lou was going to leave him in, and then Z pulled himself after the next pitch.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looked to me like Z thought he was really just fine
until he went to take his lead toward 2nd… then he felt like it was too much and said he should probably come out.
Thats just how it looked to me anyway.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was also wondering why another pitcher comes
in to run, since there was the chance we were (now confirmed) about to lose a starter. Hell, just let Gaithwright rust, right???
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 3, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't score there and you need more bench players who contribute
b/c its a tie game
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
problem is z has been fragile…. i wouldnt have run harden…
marquis was at least used to the role last year..plus he sucked at pitching
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
Perhaps it will help clarify the entire situation for some.
I’m fairly certain Harden’s instructions were to run the bases. He was not supposed to be STEALING bases, but simply get station-to-station and watch the coaches.
Parallel this to the bunt-for-hit mentality. If Z can reach base by going through the regular steps of being a hitter, that’s great. That certainly helps the team.
But if a pitcher is reaching outside his bounds at the plate (a la trying to bunt for a hit), that’s not meeting his intended purpose in the game.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bunting for a hit
is hitting. Hitting for a hit is hitting. When Fukudome tries to bunt for a hit, we applaud him. When Pie used to try to bunt for a hit, we applauded him. When Riot does it. When Fonty does it. When (ironically) Reed Johnson does it. Anyone remember that game last year? He was the last out of the ninth, and had he made it, who knows?
You play to win. The infield plays Z back, because they know he’s a pitcher who hits well. He faked them out, but good, and he got on base, and his bunt started the rally that won us the game.
This isn’t the AL. Our pitchers are expected to play on both sides of the plate.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you compare position players to pitchers?
You are doing yourself a tremendous disservice by attempting to draw such parallels.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's a baseball player
he’s in the national league. Pitchers are expected to hit. Z does a very good job of it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are confusing the leagues...
… we are in the one where pitchers hit, too. And if they want that win, they are not only responsible for pitching, but for contributing 1/9th of the offense. If you wanna get pissy for Z hurting him self throwing a fit or tripping over his cat, so be it. He was doing his best to get the cubs a W, and believe it or not, did contribute.
Hindsight is 20/20, sure. We’d all prefer to take that run off the boards in exchange for a fully healthy Z. But if we’d lost by one, then what? Or if he’d not been injured, would you care? Rules dictate he comes to the plate. Common sense dictates he try his best while there.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou doesn't
trust him. We’ve seen it before. Also, it was rather early in the game; he can use a pitcher off the bench and not have to make a double-switch or lose that utility player.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of the skull or hamstring
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
by Clutche on May 3, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The MRI of Zambrano's skull.............
………..showed nothing.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice.
how respectful of your ace pitcher.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also I think people are reacting a bit much to taken to the hospital for an MRI.
They always MRI these things and where else would one get an MRI at the coffee shop?
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by cubstoseriesby100 on May 3, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I keep one
in the shed out back. For the dogs and the little woman. :p
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually have a test results sheet of a brain scan taken when I was having extreme headaches in the 90s and they were checking for a brain tumor. I have a sheet of paper that says “Scan of cubstoseriesby100s reveals notnhing”
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by cubstoseriesby100 on May 3, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's hard core
registering under your Cubs fan-blog user-name. :P
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially since it was 15 years before I even heard of BCB.
By the way as fast as those headaches started they went away. Never found out why I was having them. Maybe watching the Cubs of that era made them.
Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.
by cubstoseriesby100 on May 3, 2009 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Zambrano because he is a baseball player.
He loves the game and it shows. He brings enthusiasm every day. He was trying to help his team win. I, for one, will not be critical of a guy that gives 100 % every day. He was trying to get on base. This is not the American League.
by Rick B on May 3, 2009 6:46 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
-1
his job is to pitch… that is it!!!!
if he is the dominant pitcher we paid for – we win… he does us know good if he legs out a bunt and then spends 15 days on the dl
by Reed's Johnson on May 3, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he on the DL yet?
Not that I’ve heard. Jeez. WAIT UNTIL he’s shelved to worry about him being shelved.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's actually incorrect,
The Cubs are in the National League.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I recall a while back a poll on "Most frustrating Cub"
For me it was an easy call-Big Z. He does not appear to play the game with his brain.
If the Cubs had a better bench and Z were not being used as a PH, he might not do stupid things like this. Who am I kidding? he’s always going to do stupid things like this.
by DudeVf11 on May 3, 2009 6:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
You realize Z was the starting pitcher today, right? This had nothing to do with him pinch hitting.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z's repeated appearances at the plate..........
……….continue to fuel his ego as a hitter, leading him to believe he’s as gifted offensively as any other player in the ballpark.
And while I can accept Lou giving him the PH opportunities due to a short bench, this type of stuff really has to subside else Z will spin (further?) out of control.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, for heaven's sake
This is ridiculous.
I didn’t realize you had a psychology degree.
Again — maybe some people have a point when they say Cubs fans are dumber than dirt.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please
You can tell he’s immature. What with the way he tried to and succeeded in getting on base when he was up to bat. And then took himself out of the game when he realized he was hurt. The man is a menace.
by Old Style & Ivy on May 3, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. Supposedly the Ace of the staff perceives that...
…he should beat out a bunt hit? At the very least it’s dumbass decision on his part. I went one step more and assigned motive as immature Z and his ego. It’s not a reach.
by DudeVf11 on May 3, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is all great satire
but if it isn’t and you really mean it, I weep for you.
Deliver me from stupidity!
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it's a reach
You’re assigning motive to someone you’ve never met. It’s a special kind of arrogance to do that.
His job in that situation is to get on base. He played hard and did his job – we ought to be applauding him for that, not making rather mean assumptions about his psyche.
by Old Style & Ivy on May 3, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
I didn’t know there were so many Cubs fans who were armchair psychiatrists.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right...he should just go up there an flail at pitched balls like any other pitcher...
What’s he thinking? Pitchers can’t hit!
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 3, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, since he is a good hitter he should go up there to hit--not to leg out a bunt.
by DudeVf11 on May 3, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WE HAVE A WINNER!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
chosing to bunt to hit
IS hitting.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's why they call it a bunt HIT!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And penguins can't fly
Wait, what?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 3, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you read the rest of my post...
…you’ll see that I reached the conclusion that even eliminating Z’s PH fun times he’s still likely to do stupid things like this.
I don’t have nor need a psych degree to tell that Z is immature. His actions throughout his career speak for it.
by DudeVf11 on May 3, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're (conveniently) forgetting
that in the prior innning he reacted calmly to Soto’s failure to get the tying runner out at the plate, something he might not have done in years past.
So, he stays under control to finish the inning, legs out a bunt single to start the game winning rally, and now he’s immature and selfish?
by TC Cubby on May 3, 2009 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not forgetting that at all.
One doesn’t cancel out the other. Since he reacted well in one situation is he now permitted to start screaming his head off and losing his cool later?
by DudeVf11 on May 3, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and he did that?
wait — no, he didn’t. He caught the infield off guard by bunting, and got on base. When he figured out that he really WAS hurt, he took himself out of the game, right away.
THAT is a measured, reasonable response. No screaming. No losing his cool. I want THIS Zambrano to play EVERY start he gets.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who needs a psyc degree............
…………to figure out Carlos Zambrano? Are you kidding me? Have you watched this guy play over the last few years?
And besides, he overtly gloats about his offensive prowess in the media. What more do you need to know?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
other then
you should be rooting for an AL team? One that treats it’s pitchers like the pretty-pretty princesses they are?
Cmon. This is the NATIONAL LEAGUE. Baseball is a game with NINE PLAYERS on a side. Pitchers are supposed to hit.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's correct but it isn't meaningful if you want to use the entire NL for your point.
The league in general, in overwhelming fashion, places no emphasis on pitchers having hitting skills. Z is the rare exception and he is a good hitter. I’d rather see him swing away than Gaithright any day and I’d rather see Z swing away than Z bunt.
by DudeVf11 on May 3, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z's a damn good athlete
who enjoys doing his job… all of his job. On the mound and at the plate. Why on earth would that be something offensive?
by Allie on May 3, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not offensive to me.
But I think what he tried to do today was stupid baseball on his part, possibly from an inflated ego about his athletic ability.
by DudeVf11 on May 3, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z's a good athlete
and he was safe.
So it was within his ability.
I think most people are just pissed at the fact he got hurt.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he was didnt get hurt
No one would have mentioned this. But we know have to be obsessed with a single play and not be happy that they actually won 3 outta there last 4. B/c we have to keep fiinding things wrong with this team. Obviously that is this years theme.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And there are nits to pick...
but hustle shouldn’t be something you find so objectionable.
by Allie on May 3, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Had he not run out it, and not gotta hurt I guess they would then complain about how this team isn’t competetive enough.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my biggest problem with this site sometimes
A lot of people are looking for reasons to complain. During the course of a season, there will be plenty of legitimate complaints. But complaining about something like this is downright stupid.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 3, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok thats 3 times in one day
:)
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 3, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you agree.........
………with people who call others names?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
reading komprehenshun is gud.
He didn’t call you stupid. He called complaining about something like this stupid. There’s a difference.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agreed with
his comment. He didn’t call anyone a name in that comment. Why do you use so many………….?
by sue369 on May 4, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason
a lot of people want to complain just to complain
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 3, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
My God I feel so sorry for their families. I can’t imagine getting so upset over something you have no control over.
by sue369 on May 4, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
After I beat the wife and kids...........
………..I feel much better.
They weren’t around this weekend so I turned to BCB.
Meanwhile, curl up with your kitten and pull grammy’s blanket over tight. It will be over soon.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 4, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't have a kitten
and grammy has been dead for years.
by sue369 on May 4, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here ya go, Sue
That cat better stop doing that soon, or it’s gonna pull a muscle.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
his ego as a hitter?
hitting is part of his job description.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why he got such a big contract.
If his hitting has not been so good, Hendry would have never given him that much money.
And the flip side applies to Aaron Miles. Hendry had to overpay for him because he tossed a few good innings of relief last year for the Cards.
These agents never miss a trick.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on May 3, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is it so hard for you to believe
that Zambrano is a hitter as well as a pitcher?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cause apparently you can not be both
One has to far outweigh another.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 3, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand why some people
are so against a pitcher being a complete player?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a knee-jerk reaction
to Z getting hurt.
Like I said earlier, his shoulder problems last year gave me much more cause for concern than this does.
The thing I love about the Cubs’ starting pitching staff is that they think of themselves as complete ballplayers, not pitchers. Look at Lilly getting the two-run double Saturday. Look at Harden’s running ability. Look at Dempster’s bun