No trade clauses

by reedjohnson on May 30, 2009 11:50 AM CDT

As many of us have realized, this edition of the 2009 Cubs can't really be dramatically changed due to the overabundance of no trade clauses on our team. As I reckon it, Soriano, Lee, Bradley, and Ramirez all have no trade clauses. Given this reality, the only places we could really improve are SS and 2B (we seem set in CF, and there's no real offensive catchers available or that make sense for us as far as I know. As an aside to that, I was at the games in SD last weekend, and boy is Soto's bat speed slow.) . That said, other than Ramirez's eventual return, what you see is probably what you get with our lineup.

The same goes for our pitching staff, though that hasn't really been a weak spot this season: to my knowledge, both Zambrano and Dempster also have NTC's.

Here's my question that I pose to all of you: how normal is this situation where abundant no trade clauses handcuff a team? Is there any team out there with nearly as many NTC players as us? How often is that used as a negotiation tactic in free agency? Is Hendry's doling things out like Halloween candy the main reason we've been able to retain most of our free agents? If this is a common problem for teams, perhaps Hendry isn't as much to blame as we think; if it's an unusual problem, though, Hendry should be run out of town on a rail when the new ownership arrives. I'm curious to all of your thoughts on these things.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Wait... Bradley has a NTC?

I never realized that. God what kind of awful negotiation was that by Hendry?

by kanderber on May 30, 2009 11:56 AM CDT reply actions

I don't think he does.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 30, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions

to my knowledge

he doesnt have one

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 30, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Don't worry

I can’t think of a single team that wants him right now anyways with how he’s playing.

by ak123 on May 30, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions

The main rationale for a "no trade" clause

is based on the idea that the player is signing for less money to play in a certain place. He wants to be assured that after he gives agrees to a "home town’ discount, that the team won’t then trade him and he’ll end up somewhere he didn’t want to be for less money than he might’ve gotten initially.

That being said, I have no idea if Hendry was getting these players at “bargain” prices and so he had to add the “no trade” route. The only one I did hear sign for less to stay with the Cubs was A-Ram-and he’s probably the last guy we’d trade anyway.

But, yeah, “no trade” clauses for guys like Bradley and Soriano don’t make a lot of sense to me-esp. when Bradley was, supposedly, pretty desperate to come here.

by bluekoolaide on May 30, 2009 11:58 AM CDT reply actions

Big Z also signed for less

But we wouldn’t trade him either unless we got Lincecum or someone like that.

Bradley does NOT have a NTC, as shown here. NTC’s are listed for Zambrano, Soriano, Ramirez, Lee, and the Shark. Lilly and Fukudome have no trade protection, which IIRC means they can choose what teams they want or don’t want to be traded to.

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on May 30, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Lincecum?

I think the Giants would slap us in the face if we offered them Z for Lincy.

I’d trade him for Halladay, Lincy, Greinke, Hernandez, CC, Beckett, Peavy, Josh Johnson, Billingsley, Haren, Webb, Cain, Verlander, Wainwright, etc… all in a heartbeat. I don’t think Z is an elite ace because he’s WAY too streaky. He’s sort of like Soriano in pitching form except he’s not completely inable of doing something like Soriano is with hitting breaking balls on the outer half.

Get Peavy already! I want my #44 jersey!

by Cub Style on May 30, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions

Oops I forgot Johan

Get Peavy already! I want my #44 jersey!

by Cub Style on May 30, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Dempster signed for less than we THOUGHT he would

but then the market collapsed.

I didn’t think Bradley had an NTC.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 30, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Not surprised that Bradley doesn't have one

But it blows my mind that we had to give a “no trade” clause to a completely unproven commodity like Shark.

by bluekoolaide on May 30, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions

it was to keep him

from going to the NFL. Dood was a star quarterback for Notre Dame.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 30, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Dood was actually a receiver

And who exactly was the last Notre Dame “name” player to do a damn thing in the NFL?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 30, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions

that's right

DeRosa was the quarterback.

The point is, he was expected to sign a big contract with an NFL team. No point in signing him to a contract in MLB for the minors if he’s going to go off and break his arm playing football.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on May 30, 2009 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions

John Carlson was pretty great last year-

Ryan Grant, Julius Jones to some extent. Definitely Anthony Weaver.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on May 31, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions

No trade clauses are common

with big money players. They have the upper hand and would like to control where they go. Jake Peavy did give the Padres a significant below market deal but in return he wanted absolute control of where he went. There was a very detailed analysis of this on The Cub Reporter blog about two weeks ago. It showed that the Yankees with 9 players with an NTC are the only team with more than the Cubs (8). In general it concluded that NTCs are common with big market, high payroll teams and did not drag teams down. You should be able to google it.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on May 30, 2009 12:18 PM CDT reply actions

How did it come to this conclusion?

by Glacier on May 31, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Here is link

http://thecubreporter.com/2009/05/15/no-trade-clauses

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 1, 2009 2:12 AM CDT up reply actions

NTC

is helpful with signign players from other teams, but in a case like Lee, there is no need for one anymore (he has the 5/10 rule in his favor now)

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 30, 2009 1:20 PM CDT reply actions

Im sure the Yankees have their fare share

Like mentioned above, its simply another carrot to lure a top player to your club as opposed to another, and as we’re seeing, its a dangerous way to do business, especially in the long term

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 30, 2009 1:41 PM CDT reply actions

Dempster also has a NTC, right?

He’s a 10-and-5 player I believe. Zambrano will also become a 10-and-5 in 1 or 2 years. 10-and-5 rule would also give Ramirez and Lee NTCs if they didn’t have them already, so there’s no sense blaming Jim for that.

by Poloplaya14 on May 30, 2009 1:52 PM CDT reply actions

Jim Hendry

hands them out like tic tacs…

the big problem is that big market teams don’t place a value on the NTC because they view it as such a small piece of the negotiation and don’t place any true weight on it. I guess this is partially because the massive contracts they’re signing guys to are in a sense ntc’s anyways since it limits half mlb anyway from being able to afford the player

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 30, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Good point

by bluekoolaide on May 30, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Rec'd

When Texas sent A-Roid to NYY, they had to pick up $67M of the remaining $185M he was owed.

"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"

by calicubfan on May 30, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions

There are plenty of teams who don't hand out no trade clauses on principle

Atlanta is one organization that comes to mind. John Schuerholz would never budge on no-trades and it strikes me the Atlanta Braves did just fine for very many years.

Jim Hendry isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer. God help him if he actually had to operate under the payroll constraints of 75% of the teams across baseball. He’d utterly fail.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on May 30, 2009 4:28 PM CDT reply actions

You don't know that

Operating a big-market team like the Cubs requires you to do things differently than if you’re running a small-market team. With a massive payroll like the Cubs, you have to take riskier moves and use that big payroll if you’re gonna be viewed as a success. If you sit around waiting for bargains, you’re not utilizing all of your resources, and you won’t have as good a team as you should. Operating a small-market team obviously requires a more conservative approach, but you don’t know that Jim Hendry wouldn’t be able to adjust.

by Poloplaya14 on May 30, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions

The Braves were one of the biggest market teams going

In the 90s when Ted Turner owned them outright and the money was flowing

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 30, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't believe the Braves were ever a "big" market team

In terms of salary. It is true that the budget has been cut for a while now but they never had a payroll as big as teams in the big markets. I think Schuerholtz is one the smartest men in baseball and he was exceptionally good at trading low and selling high but it gets a lot harder to do that without a big budget.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on May 30, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions