Oswalt does not want to play for WS either

Apparently Peavy started a trend of pitchers with NTCs who do not to play for the White Sox.

5 months ago Doggie Stalker 47 comments 0 recs |

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Maybe he thinks the Cell is too HR friendly

"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"

by calicubfan on Jun 1, 2009 12:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you can take him off the list

YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!

by tim815 on Jun 1, 2009 7:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

His curveball hasn’t had the same bite in over a year and his fastball has also lost some MPH. Oswalt is apparently content to play for a dog Houston team for the remainder of his career. Peavy is simply a wuss looking for the closest idyllic situation to his existence in San Diego that he can find. He could obviously care less about winning just so well that he plays in a pitcher friendly park and can maintain his comfort level. I would think Peavy either stays in San Diego forever or winds up with the Angels.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Peavy clearly would be willing to play for the Cubs

so how does that work into your usual totally made up theory that he only wants a pitcher friendly park ? For their own reasons which in fact probably do have something to do with Ozzie and in Peavy’s case playing in the AL, two pitchers who agreed to contracts that let
THEM decide where they would play, don’t want to play for the White Sox . Somehow when a player who does not want to agree to a trade to a team he does not want to play for, he is always labeled a loser. It is clear BOTH Oswalt and Peavy WILL agree to a trade and are in fact being sniffed at by many teams. They earned the right to decide where they want to play.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 1, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Peavy is not coming to the Cubs

Ozzie Guillen? Well a couple weeks ago Tony LaRussa came out and said that Ozzie is flat out the best manager in the game of baseball these days. The players on the White Sox also love playing for the guy. And lest we forget he won a World Series in 2005 and took a rag tag 2008 squad to the AL Central division crown.

So you can rant on Ozzie all you want. But his butchering of the English language and swearing tirades don’t seem to get in the way of his magnificent success or in many across baseball having deep respect for him.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Peavy

said he didnt feel comfortable with the way Ozzie manages

so, yes Ozzie manages well, but his style is not for everyone

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 1, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BLou

here is one link that states the following

Union-Tribune story cites a teammate as saying Peavy has some reservations "about pitching for Ozzie Guillen, the White Sox’s volatile manager.’’

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2009/05/is-ozzie-really-the-issue-for-peavys-coming-to-the-sox-or-does-the-guy-just-want-the-easy-life-in-th.html

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 1, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It says something about Peavy that he'd rather pitch in glorious San Diego and Petco Park for an awful franchise versus move to a solid franchise in a world-class city

Peavy actually did the Sox a big favor by letting his true feelings out on the subject before they made the mistake of acquiring him. Guys like Peavy typically melt when put in winning situations. And yes, the White Sox are a committed winning franchise despite the negativity us Cub fans may feel for them.

I would not want to be the franchise who trades for either Peavy or Oswalt. I think they will be bitterly disappointed with the results. In the case of Oswalt that opinion also has something to do with my view that his curveball and fastball aren’t what they used to be.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guys like Peavy typically melt when put in winning situations.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Peavy did the White Sox a huge favor by telling them he did not want to play for them before they acquired him. That’s quite a statement.

Just because a guy doesn’t want to play for a specific team, or manager, or in a specific city or league doesn’t make him a “wuss.” It just means he has the luxury of deciding where he wants to go and has decided to exercise that option.

If I were in the MLB, I’d probably prefer not to play for either NY team. Why? I don’t like the fans.

This argument reminds me of the beginning of the SUV boom. Anyone who didn’t like SUVs was automatically just “jealous” because they couldn’t afford them. There was no other rational explanation for their dislike of SUVs.

by redward on Jun 1, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 1, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me see...

Peavy can play in the Grand Canyon for a manager who he gets along with in one of the most beautiful cities in the country.

Or he can go to play in a tomb for a nutcase in the Midwest. And in a league where instead of facing 7.5 hitters a game, he faces 9.

Hmmmm…

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 1, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

except

he specifically said he wanted to play for the Cubs.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

He can stay in the NL and play for Pinella instead of Guillen.

My point is that NOT wanting to play for the White Sox is not a sign of lack of character.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 1, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

I didn’t think it was, fwiw.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe players

dont want to be called out through the media like ozzie does. ozzie is a piuece of shit to his players. he has proven that. why would anyone want such a dick for a coach?

by Glacier on Jun 1, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have a soft spot for some of Ozzie's tirades

I don’t mind that he says a lot of goofy, politically incorrect things but I will never forgive him for destroying that rookie in his first MLB game because the kid failed to hit a player as Ozzie instructed. On national TV he just screamed at the guy who literally broke down in tears. I suspect players remember that kind of thing.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 1, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Predictable

You have a lot of hate for hard-nose managers and apparently prefer the kum-by-a crowd. Ozzie has helped a lot of young talent unlock their potential and become viable big leaguers. He is tough on certain players because they either don’t have the talent or the work ethic. Ozzie jumped down the throat of Brian Anderson for a few years and made him an actual semi-decent major league outfielder. Without Ozzie riding his ass then Anderson would forever be toiling at Triple A as a washout.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So bringing a rookie to tears on National TV is good managing ?

I mean it was SO effective the guy was shipped down never to be seen again as far as I know. Players deserve RESPECT especially in public and you don’t call them out unless they do something REALLY bad. The fact that players with NTC clauses don’t want to play for the White Sox is indicative of how effective he has been. You may think Peavy and Oswalt are worthless but the Sox did not.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 1, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lots and lots and lots of hate

Very hypocritical. Out of one side of your mouth you lambast those of us who dare be critical of certain elements of the Cubs and label us all sorts of nasty words. Yet out the other side you rip Lou Piniella, Ozzie Guillen and Rich Harden a new one at every turn. Me thinks this is a case of an eager beaver pacifist being rebuffed for an autograph by Sweet Lou, Harden and big old bad Ozzie.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When I start attacking people

for their weight, color, IQ etc or making totally baseless accusations about their behavior ( drugs) or just generally spewing unfounded, unlhelpful attacks on almost anyone associated with the Cubs you can accuse me of hate. Sorry I don ’t collect autographs.

You could try responding as to how Ozzie’s attack on the rookie on national TV for failing to hit a player as instructed was good managing.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 1, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or how ordering a bean ball

is good managing.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 1, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Calling Geovany Soto fat is poltically incorrect

I see how that works. Convenient rules for your convenience. But you calling Lou Piniella a bloated booze fed old man is okay.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know WHY I respond but

Calling Soto fat is just mean. Calling Lee "chocolate " is offensive. I have written many criticisms of Lou but find me ANY that makes reference to his weight, age or drinking preference. I think you confused me with you.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 1, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me thinks this is a case of an eager beaver pacifist being rebuffed for an autograph by Sweet Lou, Harden and big old bad Ozzie.

I’m not a fan of repeating myself, but:

This argument reminds me of the beginning of the SUV boom. Anyone who didn’t like SUVs was automatically just "jealous" because they couldn’t afford them. There was no other rational explanation for their dislike of SUVs.

by redward on Jun 1, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lovely

He calls Brad Lillibridge out on the carpet for his refusal to adapt his game in order to have a meaningful big league future and he’s called a piece of shit. All I know is that Ozzie has taken two teams to the post-season, is widely regarded as one of the best managers in the game and his players LOVE playing for the guy. I have not heard one single ex-White Sox player with the exception of Magglio Ordonez say something poor about Ozzie. Or a single current White Sox player.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

umm I disagree

Maggs, Swisher, Vasquez and Cabrera would like to have a chat with you. Those are just four former players who have said they are glad to be away from Ozzie. Not saying Ozzie is not a good manager, but that there are players who did not like him as a manager.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 1, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

and three of thoses guys were last year. face it ozzie is a POS. I’ll admit he is good in some aspects but he really has no respect for people and I believe this is a problem for some players that would make them not want to play for him. Think about it all peavy/Oswalt see of this guy is him talking complete nonsense like an idiot and calling out his players in a ridiculous way.

by Glacier on Jun 1, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well....

Nick Swisher is widely viewed as a clown around baseball, to the point where he significantly alienated himself in less than a year with Jermaine Dye, Paul Konerko and AJ Pierzynski. And he still can’t hit worth a darn in New York.

Orlando Cabrera is so self-absorbed that he went to the official scorekeeper of a game to have an error overruled as a hit. Hence why he earned the rightful ire of Ozzie. And he aint’ doing very much at all in Oakland.

Javier Vazquez was an enigma with great stuff who routinenly self-destructed on the mound.

So moral of the story is apparently to say shame on Ozzie for expecting the best out of his players and for pushing them the extra mile. After all his formula didn’t work in 2005 or 2008. I’ll go with Ozzie’s track record of success, the many players who really like playing for him, players like Brian Anderson who he has salvaged and the professional praise of people like Tony LaRussa.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

keep moving

those foul poles.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is Ozzie not "VERY likable" Drewish?!?

How do the sabermagicians meaure this “VERY likability” quality that you have unearthed and that has direct linkage to winning baseball games?!?!?

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I never said that

and you know it.

However, Ozzie isn’t very likable. Are you related?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Flagged as inappropriate

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh-huh

keep digging.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you skipped

Maggs. What makes him so bad?

These players are just a small eample, i am sure there are other players who say the same about Ozzie.

At the same time there are players who love to play for him.

Guess what, that opinion of a player about wanting or not wanting to play for a manager is going to have veteran pitchers with a NTC take notice and say yes or no to playing there. That had more to do (IMHO) with Oswalt and Peavy saying NO than the ballpark, league, or anything else.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 1, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and players also love to play for Dusty

that does not mean either are the best managers in bsaeball.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 1, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about the Ozzie Guillen

that called Magglio Ordonez a “piece of sh*t” in front of the media? You think guys want to play for a manager like that? I wouldn’t want to

by murphymj on Jun 1, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You missed her point.

We know Peavy will not be a Cub. The point is he IS WILLING to be traded to the Cubs, so your assertion that he wants to stay near SoCal and pitch in a pitcher-friendly park, is dead wrong…but what else is new?

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by DMCub on Jun 2, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, from what I've read

the rumor is that Oswalt wants out of Houston. He just doesn’t want to go to the White Sox.

by redward on Jun 1, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is what is horribly wrong with no-trade clauses handed out in baseball

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 1, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope that is players earning the right to determine their future.

In the old days you saw a lot more 10/5 guys do the same but with so much movement these days NTC are the only leverage
sought after players can use to protect their right to choose where they want to play.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 1, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think NTCs are all that bad

I think some players have earned the right. the problem is with too many of them being given out. Players like Shark, who never threw a big league pitch at the time getting one. It would be fine if the cubs just had a couple but when you have as many as the cubs do it really weighs down your options. Proof of this can be seen this last off season. Maybe we could have traded lee instead of dero to free up payroll but dero was the one who could be traded more easily.

by Glacier on Jun 1, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree with 99% of this

but the biggest factor limiting a trade of d lee seems to be his contract. the dude is getting paid more than $13 million this season. an opposing gm would have to be nuts to take on that salary

by murphymj on Jun 1, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right. Lee's contract is the biggest albatross around the Cubs' neck

as you said, nobody’s going to take that on. Problem for me is that I can’t hold that one against Hendry. Who knew back in 2006 that Lee was never going to come close to
approaching his ’05 numbers again and, in fact, would start a very steady decline?

At the time, most of us, myself included, would’ve hung the Cubs’ management in collective effigy if they hadn’t resigned him. Sometimes the baseball gods just aren’t with you.

by bluekoolaide on Jun 1, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This isn't the NBA

I don’t understand why the dollar amounts on the contract are such a big deal, at least when talking about trades. Lee isn’t worth $13m/year, that is clear. But if we could get a team to take on about $7m of his contract, and get something good in return, why shouldn’t we do that? Egg on our faces? If we are DFAing Gaudin, Vizcaino, etc, why not try to get $.75 on the dollar for someone like Lee (assuming we think he’s actually worth $.70 to us)?

There’s no rule stating you have to trade away the full value of a player’s contract. So if Lee’s playing like a $7m/year player at this point, why not assess him (and any potential trades) as such?

Mind you, I know he has an NTC, and we would need a better solution for a fulltime first baseman than Hoffpaiur. I just don’t see why we treat the contracts as if they’re an all-or-nothing deal when it comes to trades.

by madcow256 on Jun 1, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We don't...

As far as I know, we’re paying Colorado part of Marquis’ salary. We just treat contracts with an NTC as a nothing deal.

by redward on Jun 1, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're correct

I’m referring to the talk here on BCB more than the Cubs. The Marquis deal is a great example of how I think you should handle those large contracts, although it would have been nice if Vizcaino had worked out.

So ultimately I mean that the meaningless (as far as the Cubs go) talk on this forum seems to look at contracts as an all-or-nothing deal . . . not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.

by madcow256 on Jun 1, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs