Harden, Johnson Stimulate Cubs To Win Over Astros, 6-3
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:28 AM CDT
in Recaps
268 comments
The Cubs have now won five of their last six games, after a 6-3 win over Houston last night at the Juice Box, and they are doing it the same way they did it last year -- with long-sequence offenses (one homer last night, by Aramis Ramirez, and the rest of the runs scoring using a bases-loaded triple by Reed Johnson, and taking advantage of some shoddy Houston defense).
We are getting closer to seeing what Lou Piniella envisioned as his regular lineup. Had Derrek Lee not had to sit again with his chronic neck and back trouble, last night's lineup would have been exactly that, with Johnson and Aaron Miles getting starts against a lefthander. But because of all the injuries to various players, Miles has started 12 games in a row (and hit a not-so-great .256/.319/.349 in them). Micah Hoffpauir, Lee's replacement last night, went 1-for-4 and his average seems to have settled in the high .290's-low .300's range. This isn't terrible, and he has shown a little strike zone judgment; if, as a bench player, he can hold in the OPS range he is now (.847), he'll be useful.
Rich Harden wasn't as sharp as he could have been, but until Lance Berkman homered off him in the 8th inning, he had allowed only one run in seven full innings; this was Harden's longest outing of the year. The four strikeouts, oddly enough, were his fewest of the season (except for his start last Friday against the Marlins, when he struck out only two in 3.2 innings). The fact that starters are now going deeper into games -- that's two days in a row that a Cub starter has at least begun the 8th inning -- ought to give the bullpen a little breather. Carlos Marmol, who threw a scoreless inning last night, could use one; he has appeared in 15 of the 27 games. (Only Kiko Calero of the Marlins has been in more games thus far). Keep that up and that'd be a club-record 90 appearances, far too many, I think.
To that end, the Cubs got a fresh bullpen arm when they recalled Chad Fox from Iowa and sent Jeff Samardzija back down, presumably to return to the Iowa rotation. Lou's quote in that link is what puzzles me:"We're pretty young out in that bullpen," Piniella said. "Having a veteran pitcher certainly helps."
Is Lou having a senior moment? Not including Samardzija, the Cubs' bullpen includes 31-year-old Kevin Gregg (who is looking much better lately and whose fifth save last night has him only three shy of the league lead), 30-year-old Aaron Heilman, 29-year-old Neal Cotts, 27-year-old Angel Guzman and 24-year-old David Patton. Three of those five -- Gregg, Heilman and Cotts -- have six years' major league experience prior to this season. I'm not sure what Lou means by "pretty young"; only Patton qualifies under that definition. What a 38-year-old Chad Fox adds that, say, Jeff Stevens couldn't have added, I have no idea.
Nevertheless, a win is a win. The Cubs will continue this road trip tonight with Ted Lilly facing Russ Ortiz (whose 5.21 ERA so far this year is his lowest since 2004). Why the schedule-makers decided to send the Cubs on two identical road trips (Houston and Milwaukee) within a month is beyond me. If you are not familiar with the Astros, you will be by June 11 -- including last night, eight of the 33 games between now and that date are against Houston, after which the Cubs will see them once at the end of July and once at the beginning of September, both at Wrigley Field. Like last year's foray with the Pirates, where the Cubs had 12 games against them by early June, this schedule appears to be in the Cubs' favor, since the Astros don't seem to be a very good team in 2009, at least from the early results.
Finally, I was out for a while last night and listening to the game in the car. It happened to be during the Judd Sirott inning. All I can say is this: Sirott makes Dave Otto sound good.
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Nice win last night
In regards to Chad Fox coming up, he has looked pretty good at Iowa. And while I don’t think this is Jim Hendry’s motivation behind the move, it’s worth noting that Fox is nearing 10 years of Major League service time (he’s at 9.054 entering the year) – IIRC, 10 years of ML service time boosts your pension. So here’s hoping that Fox is effective enough to reach that plateau.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on May 7, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Stevens looked good at Iowa, too.
But I think your analysis is right. Jim Hendry likes Fox, and has always tried to help players out when he can. He may very well be trying to get Fox the service time toward his pension.
That’s not really a good reason to have someone on your roster, though.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's his main reason for bringing up Fox
then it’s wrong to promote Fox over Stevens, I agree. Maybe with the amount of walks the ‘young’ bullpen has issued, they figured it’d be better to bring a veteran up as opposed to another youngster who may be intimidated.
That said, the Cubs have to learn what they have in Stevens at some point – maybe when Fox goes on the DL (and collects ML service time – there’s the solution), he’ll get his shot.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on May 7, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have it figured out perfectly.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair to Fox and Hendry,
the complaint with Fox is that he is old and breaks down with much use. When healthy, Fox has been effective for the Cubs under Hendry.
I’m not too twisted by this move as it will either work the rest of the season, for a while until the arm tweaks, or it won’t. It doesn’t look like there is much risk, if any.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on May 7, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Effective?
Fox has pitched in 14 games as a Cub — 11 in 2005, 3 in 2008, with a total of 11.1 innings. He has posted a 6.35 ERA in those 11.1 innings, walked 11 and allowed three homers.
I wouldn’t call that “effective”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't he mostly good in 2005
and then had that big blowup when his arm went out in the last game?
In part, whenever Fox gets another shot, that’s what I think. The Cubs owe it to him, because Dusty was utterly reckless with Fox’s arm in ’05.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I looked at his game logs.
He had a 3.52 ERA in 10 appearances before that blowout (3 runs in 0.1 IP when his arm went out). That’s decent, I suppose.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you,
one instance where my recollection isn’t flawed. I thought he was okay except the moments while his arm falls off.
I’ll say it again, either it will work or it won’t. If not, there is no point in having him use his precious pitches at AAA and taking up the roster spot there.
At this point, either he sticks and succeeds, goes on the DL (long term), or is DFA’d.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on May 7, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is he'll go on the DL
this way, he’ll get his service time. I’m sure there’s enough scar tissue built up in that arm to find something there in which he can be DL’d.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on May 7, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
utterly reckless?
He pitched in 11 games. We don’t OWE him anything, and certainly not more than the team owes the fans putting the best possible product on the field.
This is yet another in a long line of head scratching roster moves
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
by BoVandy on May 7, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that the Cubs owe Fox nothing.
However, DGU is right about Baker being reckless with him. The game in which Fox’s arm blew out was this one on April 25, 2005. Fox was sent out to pitch the 9th inning of a game the Cubs were leading 10-3. He had thrown an inning the day before and made 20 pitches. There was absolutely no reason to use him in that blowout, and the extra stress, I believe, led directly to the injury.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was the poster child
for Duct Tape and bailing wire. Dusty seemed to be insistant that his closer could go two days in a row and used Fox to prove it.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on May 7, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, sometimes...
… closers DO go two days in a row (and three of four). They have to. Fox didn’t have to go that day.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, I always thought
Dusty was proving a point by putting him in that situation that day.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on May 7, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What that point is, I have no idea.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The usage didn't help
Fox has publicly absolved Baker, but even if it didn’t cause the problem, it was a poor decision.
I do think that Trey is right — Hendry is trying to help Fox out. Could this be one of those moves that looks odd now, but pays off later? Someone speculated something about that a while back — Hendry gets a rep for being a players’ GM for things like this, and that makes it easier to sign big free-agents?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't owe him anything necessarily
but if Jim Hendry chooses to act that way and it makes players trust Jim Hendry and/or the Cubs, then this can help out with little cost.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In 2005 he earned the Closer role
and looked great as the closer for 2-3 games until the Dude used his fragile arm in consecutive days and his arm blew out.
I will qualify my effective to effective when healthy. Didn’t he have one decent outing last year before he started hurting.
Either he will work or not. I doubt he will be worse than Shark.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on May 7, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice Al,
Great game, but way to tickle the punny bone with the not so double entendre.
After the last few weeks, a good no doubter was what the Dr. ordered.
As for Fox and the “young” bullpen, we have to remember that to Hendry, Fox is young.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on May 7, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It took a long time to figure out that double entendre.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had to go back and take a second look
Not bad Al not bad at all
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
by carolinacub on May 7, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For a mental 14 year old like me,
the word stimulate caused the penny to drop.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on May 7, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To Lou
everybody looks young. Wonder what he thinks when Len Kasper walks by…..
“Who is this kid with the microphone?”
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 7, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
15-12 Not Bad....
when one considers that the Cubs haven’t had very many games with Lee, Ramirez, and Bradley all starting together.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on May 7, 2009 8:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Through their first 20 games (I haven't looked since)
the Cubs had started their ‘A’ lineup (Soriano, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez, Bradley, Fontenot, Soto, Theriot – in some order) 5 times.
So it seems as if they’re beginning to find their groove offensively as those guys start to come back.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on May 7, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they've only had it
once since, I think, because Rami only came back a few days ago, and Dome didn’t play yesterday.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2.5 games back of the Cards...
… and with any luck we’ll catch the Brewers this weekend if not before.
I’m pretty sure i read the Cards are second in the majors in ERA and in the top five in runs scored. We are lucky to be within reach considering injuries.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 7, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
After 27 games in 2008...
… the Cubs were 17-10. So being only two games off that pace with all the injuries, isn’t too bad.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All things cosidered I will take 15-12
could have been MUCH worse.
And, I am sure I am not alone, with concern of Fox. This is not his first cup of tea, and in the past he has spilled more than he drank so to speak.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 7, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Fox is healthy
I think he’ll be useful and maybe even surprisingly good. I wonder if there’s any regret at having thrown away Vizcaino, or if all along the Cubs so Fox and Viz as similar.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe we have the 4th
best record in the NL. Again, not bad for what this team has gone through. Things are starting to look up.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on May 7, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs will be good this season, barring major disasters
I also think the Cardinals are pitching over their heads so far.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
That bullpen will implode eventually.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but the Cards are sneaky and always seem to
be able to fill a hole in their roster before the deadline if they believe that will push them over the top.
With talent expected to be available in July, the Cards may be in this all the way.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on May 7, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they decide to bump up the payroll
which is something they didn’t want to do in the offseason.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on May 7, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but
This Cardinals team is better than last years, and they managed to stick in the race for quite a while before finally bowing out. I think it could be a nice race again this year. I have to figure the loser takes the wild card.
by dr stabbingworth on May 7, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMAO
It was hard to figure that one out.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm sure it was very 'hard'.
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by Schwa on May 7, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difficult!
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look out, people!
Al’s workin’ blue! (No, not that blue – the other kind.)
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering
Houston’s recent trend of playing better second half ball, I’m glad to see the Cubs pile on early in the season. It would surely be nice to see Bradley and Soto swing their bats better. After the first inning single by Bradley, and walk by Soto, the rest of the night was pretty hapless for the two. Bradley seems to be rolling over everything, and Soto is still trying to pull everything. Otherwise, a well played game by the Cubs. Never seen Pudge look that bad.
Lot’s of patience required at the plate tonight vs Ortiz. Wait him out, take the walks, and then shell him.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on May 7, 2009 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Lou may mean young in terms of MLB service time.
Marmol, Guzman, Patton all have less than 3 years of MLB service time and Cotts (and maybe Heilman too) tends to struggly with his confidence at times.
Also, the Cubs have nothing to lose by bringing Fox up, if it doesn’t work, they can easilly get rid of him or send him back to the minors.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 7, 2009 8:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Right, but...
… as I posted above, he has not been effective in the major leagues since 2003. What’s the point (other than the service time)?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the "they have nothing to lose" sentiment
there are few professions where what they lose is so tangible.
If Fox is bad, we could lose actual games.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
by BoVandy on May 7, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To solve this problem
you start by using him in blowouts where we are already out of it or have a 5-7 run lead. This gives you the opportunity to evaluate his ability to get major league hitters out. However, knowing Lou he will pitch tonight whatever the score.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right.
He probably would have thrown the 9th inning last night if Berkman hadn’t hit the HR.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why release Vizcaino?
He was pitching good enough, and is Chad Fox any better? Maybe it was a clubhouse issue.
by dr stabbingworth on May 7, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there were some rumours
about such.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
Somehow I always miss these things.
by dr stabbingworth on May 7, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Rumors about him being late several times.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those were more than rumors.
There were other issues, too. Given what I have heard, I am not surprised he was let go.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I won't ask for detail, because I know you can't provide it
But I wonder if the beat writers will at some point.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given what I know...
… and the fact that Vizcaino is gone, I doubt it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I guess he's not exactly a headline grabber
Maybe I can find one of them drunk at the convention next year!
Too bad it wasn’t a few weeks earlier – you could have been spared the price of a Big Gulp
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take issue with your phrasing re: Hoffpauir...
“Micah Hoffpauir, Lee’s replacement last night, went 1-for-4 and his average seems to have settled in the high .290’s-low .300’s range. This isn’t terrible, and he has shown a little strike zone judgment; if, as a bench player, he can hold in the OPS range he is now (.847), he’ll be useful.”
First off, a batting average around .300 is far better than “not terrible.” And secondly, an 847 OPS for a bench player is far beyond “useful.” That would be OUTSTANDING!
by kanderber on May 7, 2009 9:07 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
However...
… based on the comments of some here who love Hoffpauir, you’d think he should be at a level 100 batting average points and 150 OPS points above that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess...
I see the Hoffpauir love as mainly intentionally humorous hyperbole, maybe I’m off on that though.
Also re: Chad Fox. I agree that it’s a puzzling move. But not for age reasons, but moreso because Chad Fox isn’t a good pitcher. The Cubs are hoping to get lightning in a bottle with him and get a few productive innings which isn’t likely. They made a rash decision with Shark/Vizcaino and made a rash decision with Fox/Shark. Be patient, Lou. Btw, what ever happened with Vizcaino? Did anyone pick him up? Never heard anything after he was cut.
by kanderber on May 7, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vizcaino was unconditionally released on Monday.
If anyone picks him up, the Cubs would at least be off the hook for a pro-rated portion of the minimum salary, plus the $500,000 buyout for next year.
I suspect that won’t happen. I think he’s done.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean we still had the option of bringing him back as late as Monday?
If so, it would seem there definitely were other issues involved, because Shark’s replacement would have been on the radar by then.
by madcow256 on May 7, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Sirott/Otto inning was painful.
I’m not a fan of Otto, but I almost felt sorry for him when Jud was asking about Halloween costumes. Just call the game already.
Oh and does anybody have that sports sync radio? Just curious how that could possibly work with Jud because he’s sometimes calling things so late that it’s after the play is shown on TV already even with the delay.
by katie casey on May 7, 2009 9:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dave Otto makes the ears bleed
He seems like a really nice guy, but he is the single worst color commentator on the planet. I want to suck on the exhaust of my car everytime he employs one of his trademark phrases like the “Fosh” pitch or calls Cubbie players by his version of nickname. “Demp is sure throwing that fosh nicely tonight…”
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was the worst
but talking about Otto was called up and using a Green Acres analogy was a close second.
I would choose Otto any day over Judd. He might be very good, but at least he realizes he’s watching a game. I think Judd often forgets that and thinks he is just there to chit chat.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 7, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few things
First off Aramis really looked like he was hitting the ball with more authority last night. Even in his last at bat where he grounded out he had some hard hit foul balls, including one that landed in the far reaches of the upper deck. Ramirez also moved well in the field. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come with him and it would be nice to have him playing at or near 100%.
As for Fox, I wonder if the Cubs had a time limit with him. Veterans who sign minor league deals often have a clause where if they don’t get called up within a month or two, they will be granted their release. I know that alone is not reason to call someone up, but if Hendry and staff believe that Fox can be an effective reliever then that deadline certainly is another part of the equation.
by dmlichte on May 7, 2009 9:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
let's hope not
Hendry already painted himself into a corner with the no trade clause to Shark. Hopefully he isn’t continuing that trend by giving vastly mediocre veterans “time limits” and then calling them up in hopes of not losing it.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
by BoVandy on May 7, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is it Jim Hendry's mission to ensure Chad Fox logs enough service time for a pension???
Chad Fox is extraordinarily bad. I will hereby predict his WHIP will exceed 2.0 en route to him being lit up like a Christmas tree. Why exactly is he here?!? And we gulped $4 million of salary on Luis Vizcaino and nearly $2 million on Chad Gaudin to make room for Fox to accrue vesting status on his pension?!?
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 9:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fox is one of Hendry's guys
There are certain players Hendry simply must have. Fox is one of them. He must have seen him pitch a good inning once and fell in love with him
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
by BoVandy on May 7, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
word is
he’s pitched fairly well in AAA.
Let’s give him a chance in THIS year, and see what happens. Kerry Wood was thought to be done too, and he’s now a very good closer.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what is it costing us at this point?
Fox will likely pitch for a game or two. If he’s effective, he’ll stay around at the end of the bullpen. If he’s not (which is what we should expect), then the team will DL him (so he gets his service time) and go to Stevens.
Letting Gaudin and Vizcaino walk were poor decisions necessitated by the fact that Gaudin got in Piniella’s doghouse and wouldn’t see the light of day and Vizcaino simply isn’t good. In retrospect, they shouldn’t have been let go. But we are where we are.
by SouthernCub on May 7, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gaudin, in 2 starts with the Padres
went under 5 innings in a no decision and then had his socks rocked this weekend by the Dodgers. He’ll pitch against the Astros Friday or Saturday. So far, I don’t think he’s going to be missed here.
Jake Peavy, on the other hand — struck out 12 in 7 innings while the punchless Pads lost 3-1 last night, with Henry Blanco killing an early rally grounding into a based loaded DP. And, regarding Peavy’s home stats — if you can’t hit the ball, I don’t won’t to hear about the “Petco Effect.”
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 7, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It woudl be
a killer starting 5, I agree.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good things starting to happen
It’s not a switch and it’s not some grand-plan being executed on a specific date.
I don’t care about these small moves on the roster outside of Z’s DL stint. It’s only a blip on the radar – too many here blowing a head gasket about Chad Fox. BFHD.
I care that Rami was back in the lineup and ripped one. I care about Reed Johnson getting a the clutch bases-clearing hit. I care about Harden’s solid pitching performance. I care about Gregg doing well again.
I’ve said it before and will say it again. Lou is treating the first 2 months of 2009 in a similar manner as 2007; an extended spring training.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2009 9:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That being the case...
… it must have been mostly Hendry’s call on changing the roster, because last year, Lou supposedly had “his team”. The idea that Lou is treating this like an extended spring training — and I don’t necessarily disagree — means that he doesn’t feel this is “his team”.
Thus, expect more roster juggling.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish Lou would tell Hendry to pound sand on Fox
I cannot imagine any scenario where Sweet Lou is happy to have Fox join what is already a dubious bullpen.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
blou must be feeling very serious about Fox
if he thinks Lou should tell go pound sand. :)
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 7, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not mostly Hendry
but could be a bit more this year than last year. I think they thought last year going into the season, they were “locked and loaded” with maybe the exception of CF since they got Reed Johnson only days before the season started and Jimmy Ballgame was still 6-7 weeks away from ariving. Going into 2009 there were more far more questions coming out of ST than in 2008.
My idea of Lou treating it as extended ST is that with the question marks abound – and we’ve all discussed them – he’s trying more things.
And….IMO the ownership issues threw into the game a variable Hendry was hoping he’d didn’t have to work around. By that I mean the departure of DeRo to get Bradley. Personally and this is only my hunch, Zell’s steadfast, hardass approach to the sale of the team somewhat tied Hendry’s hands that lead to him having to deal DeRo. IMO Ricketts here sooner allows the payroll increase to keep DeRo and add Bradley.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
A couple things I would point out…
1. The Cub payroll hovers around $140 million and has gone up, up, up the last several seasons. That hardly describes a situation where Hendry has been handcuffed. Especially in a marketplace where the majority of teams have held steady or cut payroll.
2. DeRosa was arguably team MVP the past two seasons and had one year at $5.5 million remaining on his contract. In response to DeRosa being dumped and creating a major void on this team Hendry proceeded to dish out $5 million over two years on Aaron Friggin Miles. So whatever Hendry was trying to do here it can be said horribly backfired.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should have added....
3. What continues to bite this team and have negative ramifications aplenty is a farm system that continues in its failure to produce. A craptastic farm system is precisely why Hendry needs to annually overpay for free agent outfielders (Jock Strap Jones, Soriano, Kosuke, Milton).
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at some point
you just have to laugh. Our minor league system produced the 2008 NL Rookie of the Year. It produced your favorite spark plug, Ryan Theriot. Sean Marshall is turning into a good pitcher. Angel Guzman has some good heat. And other parts of our minor-league system brought us Rich Harden, you’re BFF.
perspective. U needz it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
Our farm system has been pretty good. Despite constantly being ranked pretty low, our entire infield is either a farm player or collected through trades of farm players.
I’m really looking forward to seeing some of our shortstops coming up.
by dr stabbingworth on May 7, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
'Horribly backfired'
Hyperbole, anybody?
The DeRomantics strike again.
Enough, enough, ENOUGH about DeRosa already. If you want to canonize him, take it up with the Vatican.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 7, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one is in love with DeRo
at least not me. I do recognize however his value to the team when its struggled at times early this season; both offencively and defencively.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I like about Mark!
He can play in rie-eeet. He can also play third base, second base and even shortstop if the roster is tie-eeeeet.
HEY!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure fooled me
The incessant bleatings about him around here make him sound as if he’s headed for the HOF. Doesn’t look like he’s turned around the Tribe.
But the Romantics spoof might be one of the funniest things I’ve read anywhere in a while. Nice work, DCD.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 7, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're sounding like the positive version of BlueMike...
with the amount of overstating people’s opinions on DeRosa that you’re doing here.
by SouthernCub on May 7, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SC too funny
I shouldn’t be eating and reading this at the same time.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 7, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, NBF!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"bleating"
not quite as good as labeling people “contaminants” but same flavor
DeRo seems to be heating up too.
by ol Pete on May 7, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's got power at the plate
Or can hit the other way, in a tight game late.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noticed
he had a two run shot over the monster at Fenway last night. In other news those kids Theriot and Fontenot aren’t so bad for the Cubbies.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just trying to help Dave with his lyrics...
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeahhh!!!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRomantics...
DeRomantics = recockulous man crush on a utility player
Manny Trillo is silling by his phone, waiting to be told about his valus from yesteryear.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 7, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
silling = sitting
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 7, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If someone is sitting on a window sill, is he or she "silling"?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Silling Associates, Inc
http://www.state.wv.us/admin/purchase/Bids/FY2007/B_GSD076414_4.pdf
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 7, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa's numbers the last two years were much better than a utility player's
Aaron Miles is the definition of a utility player.
by dr stabbingworth on May 7, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
offense sure
defense not so much, lack of range actually hurt his URZ.
He was an average player on a good team. He did a great job when handed a mic. I think we could have used him, but losing him does not equate to a losing season.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 7, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
If the payroll wasn’t capped that hard (and I believe the lack of the team’s sale had some affect here), DeRo isn’t dealt.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Despite the troubles the team has had so far this season, I do not think we are at a point where we can say that Hendry’s moves have “horribly backfired”. If we fail to make it past the first round of the playoffs, then we can say that Hendry’s moves backfired. If we fail to contend in any way, then we can say that the moves “horribly backfired.”
There has been a lot of turnover for a 97 win team. Lou needs to get a feel for how the new guys fit. Give the man some time.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on May 7, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should also add
that Hendry was hoping to add someone else with the kids he got back in the DeRo trade. So after being hamstrung on payroll by having to dump DeRo to get Bradley, the pitching return from the Tribe truly didn’t get flipped for who Hendry was really after. Unfortunately I’m not sure who Hendry was really going after.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a notion or two.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet you do
I think he was going after Bonnie & Clyde to help with our stolen base success rate from last season.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on May 7, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then Hendry screwed up
It’s like tearing down your house to put a new one up on the lot and stopping half way in the process because of the unforseen. In the end you are left with half a new house and miss the old one. It is inexcusable really if Hendry executed several moves as prelude to a “master” move (i.e, Jake Peavy) that didn’t happen. Hendry should have known on the front end how serious San Diego really was about moving Peavy and the pricetag of young talent it would take to get him. My personal opinion is that the failure of the Peavy move to happen had only secondarily to do with payroll increase. I think Hendry blew it because San Diego was lukewarm to trading Peavy from the start and/or wanted way more in return than Hendry realized.
Shame on Hendry.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure it was Peavy
But the fact remains they had to DeRo partly because of money. If that add’l few million was available, they could have kept him and still signed MB.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden, Johnson Stimulate Cubs
ISWYDT
Sirott makes Dave Otto sound good.
It was a massacre. Dead ears, all over the place.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 9:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I wound up listening to much of last night’s game on the radio and it was, indeed, brutal. Sirott just doesn’t seem suited for calling baseball games. I think he does OK with the pregame interviews and such – not great, but good enough. Once the game starts, though, it’s really frustrating trying to follow him.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you ever figure out how to actually follow him at all
That might be fan post worthy.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 7, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree partially
and stated so last night. The Bradley thing was a head-scratcher KNOWING his track-record. A real square peg in a round hole.
And, the Hoff …“his average seems to have settled in the high .290’s-low .300’s range.”
Al, compared to several of the multi-millionaire starters, and those such as Soto, this is pretty damn good. You know the team’s BA with RISP is around .240 this year? That is not Championship caliber. Hopefully it will start improving in a hurry. Certainly the Cardinal’s .327 RISP success cannot. Right? Do you think>?
by The E-Man on May 7, 2009 9:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Both of those should regress to the mean, I'd think. Wouldn't you?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what's everyone's take on Bradley appealing his suspension?
They were tearing him a new one on the radio this morning, saying he just should have sat while he was hurt and all that jazz. Thoughts?
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 7, 2009 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think he did
the right thing appealing it. He felt that he had a good case and I agree. The contact seems to be incidental and two games was a ridiculous suspension for that kind of contact. I agree with the appeal, particularly because it is SOP in these situations and gives Bradley and opportunity to defend his position. He is not being a baby about it he has the right to an appeal and he is exercising it.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
he did the right thing
you stand up for your principles when you’ve been wronged, and Bradley was VERY wronged.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I pretty much agree, but I think it DOES suck in the sense...
…that I don’t think there’s ANY way MLB will lose face enough to reverse the ENTIRE suspension (though I hope I’m wrong) but will most likely cut it down to 1 game and we will lose Bradley for a game during the MIL series.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 7, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or, maybe they will decide today, and...
… he’ll sit tonight. I think the Cubs can beat Russ Ortiz without Milton.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The plan was for Milton to get regular rest throughout the season anyway
Missing a game due to the suspsension or missing it just to keep him healthy and fresh? Doesn’t make much of a difference.
by madcow256 on May 7, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Bradley
This had a lot to do with it.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on May 7, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
look how bad a call it was too
and that situation, the Ump DID decide the outcome
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 7, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
holy cow
was a bad call. What a TERRIBLE CALL. That ump should be suspended is who should be suspended.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First time I saw that
Not a strike. Not even that close.
by dr stabbingworth on May 7, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get angry
everytime I watch that replay. What a horrible call.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on May 7, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we all do
but reading the text of what Milton has to say about it now makes a lot of sense too and so at the end of the day I agree with how he decided to handle it.
“I watched the whole video for the first time [Wednesday],” Bradley said. "You can see when I walked around the catcher, there was no cursing on my part, not threats. [Vanover] took off his mask and walked toward me. You can actually see me stepping back. You’d need a forensic expert [to see a bump].
“I’m a 220-pound guy. If I bump into you, there’s going to be a reaction. I wasn’t happy about being tossed. It was my first at-bat at Wrigley. It was not what I wanted.
“In that situation, bases loaded, I wouldn’t walk away not swinging the bat. I think anybody watching it would say [the pitch] was not a strike.
“You’re going to get kicked out of the game every now and then anyway, and you’re going to be upset. Anybody is. This suspension and the steps that are being taken are pretty over the top.”
Bradley said there is no doubt in his mind that his past problems in baseball played a part in the suspension.
“It’s about me,” he said. “I’m trying to leave the past in the past. I’ve had incidents in the past, and I’ve accepted being suspended.”
He said he didn’t even know until two days later there was going to be a suspension.
“I had no idea anything was coming out of it,” he said. “Lou [Piniella] came out to me in the outfield when I was shagging balls. I was shocked. So I knew I had to appeal.”
Bradley was bothered by a groin injury at the time.
“Being that I was banged up at the time, it would have been easy to take the suspension and sit out these days because I wasn’t playing as it was.”
He said it was a matter of principle, because he truly believes he is right.
“I wanted to tell the truth about it,” he said. “A reduction [of the suspension] would be warranted. A reduction to zero games would be justified.”
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by tony412 on May 7, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rules are the rules
…and the rule states, “come in contact with an umpire (if even only with bill of the cap) and you shall be suspended.” It’s irrelevant to the discussion that the umpire was performing lousy behind the plate. Bradley has no defense by saying the umpire’s ball and strike call sucked. None, nada, zero.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...hence why he should have sucked it up and served his two game suspension while he was on the bench for two weeks
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it...
I suspect there are many that agree with you as well. However, it was Vanover that took off his mask AND took a step towards Bradley, while Bradley was trying to get away from him. It was Vanover who initiated the barely noticeable bump of the cap bills. This is another case of the umpires thinking that they are the game, and that people are there to watch them. It also has much to do with Bradley’s history… A suspension may have been warranted in this situation, but two games is outrageous, and Bradley had every right to appeal it. Especially given that he does not want any new precedent established in his tenure with the Cubs.
So, take your precious rule book, and read it somewhere else, we all know the rules… I’m tired of hearing your incessant bleatings.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 7, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You have some very valid points
I didn’t see the play – or can’t remember – but if the ump was confrontational, it’s something that needs to be said to get MLB to open their eyes.
Too often I remember BB talking about the umps “trying to be part of the show”. And I think he’s dead nuts on in his explanation.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Bradley said his piece and walked away — far different from some of his prior antics. I don’t think he was any more “out of control” over that one as many other players who have been jobbed by bad calls.
This one was a really bad call, and the umpire decided to make an example of Bradley. He made a mistake. Let’s hope Bob Watson corrects it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Watson rule on Bradley's
situation when he got hurt being restrained by the team’s 1B coach? Or am I mixing up issues?
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the recounting of the incident gets better all the time
by ol Pete on May 7, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
go watch the video yourself
and give an honest, impartial evaluation.
If you can.
Here, I’ll even give you the link.
Go on. Watch it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll do you one better
Here is Lou doing his job of managing personalities and dealing with the media, both of which he seems to do exceptionally well. Notice the clip of Bradley acting like a nutjob and leaning into the umpire. How long do you think it will take the forensic expert to find the bumping of the hats?
Here is a link to the gameday. Notice how close the pitch is? Notice the horizontal break? Its not some absurdly bad call other than it was inconvenient for Milton.
Give an honest, impartial evaluation… if you can. Go ahead, check them out. The umpire won’t be reprimanded in any way.
by ol Pete on May 7, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the first link
consists of the same thing that I told you to go watch, with pieces of Lou talking inserted. I see Milton Bradley clearly take a ball, and the umpire clearly call it a strike. I do not see Milton Bradley leaning, and I see the umpire turning aggresively towards him.
That gameday link doesn’t do what you want it to, sport. And if you’ve seen the video, like you say you have, there is no horizontal break; there’s vertical break. That ball was low and inside, and clearly a bad call.
You’re here because you want to stir up trouble. Good luck with that.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was I too hasty in defending you in the other thread?
Because it really does appear in this one that you’re just looking to rile people up.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you still haven't even confirmed
that you’ve watched the video.
Why should anyone listen to you at all?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure i've seen it
But people making up wild stories about the agressive umpire challenging poor Milton who was just having his say and the pitch that was about a foot off the plate according to the same people, don’t seem to have seen it.
I’d add that the other pitches in the at bat were called correctly unlike the confabulation about poor Milton suffering with atrocious umpiring.
by ol Pete on May 7, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
so we now know what we can do with your opinion.
Of course, we knew before, too. Like with the umps, Milton Bradley won’t get a fair shake from you.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've offered nothing as "truth"
You have offered your opinion. And, you’ve nitpicked what people have said to you.
Clearly, there is some sort of history with you and Drew, but you’re not coming across as someone just looking to talk about baseball. And that’s got nothing to do with your stance on Bradley’s ejection — it’s the way you’re presenting yourself.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rules also
state that the player gets an appeal.
Rules are rules.
And if there’s no recourse when an ump is lousy behind the plate, why bother to play? Just let them decide who wins and who loses. One of the reasons my son’s little league team lost their last game was because of a very bad umpire. There has to be SOME kind of recourse.
Bradley is right to appeal. He shouldn’t have to serve any suspension at all, and he should get an apology from the ump. TERRIBLE CALL.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rules also state
that was a ball not a strike based on the strike zone
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 7, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is one reason why I like this appeal
It brings additional attention to how poorly the umpire was calling the strike zone in that game and could lead to a reprimand of that umpire. It would be a small victory, but a victory nonetheless.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on May 7, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I wonder if we’ll see him ump another game this year with Bradley at the plate
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by tony412 on May 7, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope we never see him
ump another Cubs game, regardless of who is at the plate
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on May 7, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope we never see him
ump again. Someone who does their job that poorly should be fired.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I might agree that...
…from a practical perspective, perhaps Bradley should have just taken the suspension and gotten it over while he was in the early stages of recovering from his groin injury, I don’t fault him for challenging it. The call was awful and, as discussed at the time, the ump may have made that bad call in retaliation for Bradley heading toward first on an “assumed ball four” earlier in the count.
Milton knows this won’t be the first time he’s at odds with an umpire. And he knows that some umps are likely just looking for opportunities to set him off. He probably feels he needs to make it clear that he will put up a fight when stuff like this goes down.
Another good reason for him to fight this suspension is that, from what I understand, disciplinary measures like this are often progressive. Meaning if he takes the two games this time, he could get four games next time, and six games the time after that. So if he can beat this or get it chopped to one game, he might stand a better chance of getting only two or three games the time he rides the merry-go-round.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This could definitley send a
“dont pick on Milton” message across the board to the umpires as well. If Bradley gets this taken care of and gets out of it (or even a reduced suspension to 1 game), I think it will send a clear message that singling Milton out is both wrong and ineffective. It would be pretty nice if the decision came down on his side and the umpire was punished in some way (although that obviously will not be announced).
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
He was suspended because he came into contact with an umpire, period. HIS DEFENSE CANNOT BE THAT I WAS MAD ABOUT THE BALL AND STRIKE CALL !!!
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would expect
that his “defense” is that the umpire was over-aggressive and initiated the contact himself, and that the suspension is too high a price to pay.
This isn’t a court of law.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he will
and maybe he won’t. But he’s got the right to appeal, and a lot of people think he was right to do so.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would he lose that one?
If an umpire initiates the contact- how is it the players fault? Do you have any examples?
"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher
by The Lip on May 7, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes he did.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His defense is symbolic.
As tempting as it is to make this a simple, cut-and-dried situation, certain players get targeted by umpires more than others. Milton Bradley is one of those players. Therefore, he probably feels the need to fight any disciplinary measures brought against him. If this were Mike Fontenot having a bad day, arguing a call and accidentally making contact with the ump, he’d probably just take the suspension and move on.
Again, the pragmatist in me agrees with you – the most expedient way to handle this mess would have been for Bradley to just serve the suspension while his groin was keeping him from playing anyway. But there are, for lack of a better term, “human issues” in play here.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
At this rate Milton Bradley will play less than 100 games and is well on his way to fulfilling the doomsday promise his critics forecast. Old Milton could not have gotten off to a worse start with the Cubs if it was a Cardinal fan writing the script.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I agree.
If you’d told me during spring training that Bradley would pull his groin during the first week or so of play and get ejected and possibly suspended in his first Wrigley Field AB, I would have called it hysterical cynicism of the highest order. Yet here we are, living through those very circumstances.
It doesn’t help matters that he and Ryan Theriot seem to have switched bodies, with Milton doing nothing but drawing walks and slapping the odd single here and there. There’s still plenty of time for him to explode at the plate, though. Soriano got off to a cold start in his first season as a Cub. Jacque Jones, too.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ever consider becoming a cardinal fan?
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 7, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought truth was ALWAYS a defense!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 7, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're not allowed
to argue balls and strikes. This appeal is based on the concept that the punishment for the act of bumping caps is too severe. I think Bradley has a pretty good case.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he deserved his day in court, so to speak
Those calls were brutal. Again, I didn’t see the whole argument, but what I did see didn’t look all that bad.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The
clip on cubs.com had an angle where it was definitely unclear if contact was made. I trust that there was some contact, but there was obviously no intent to contact and the umpire looks to be the aggressor.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with MB
That was a ball, and he has a good case arguing that. I had not seen the clip before, but it was clearly off the inside of the plate. Terrible call, and the umpire should be suspended.
This incident back in 2003 was also the fault of the umpire.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 7, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off-topic
Manny Ramirez has been suspended 50 games for a positive performance-enhancing drug test.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 7, 2009 10:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I call bullshit.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
nothing on mlb.com or yahoo…
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not even anything on the LA Times
Which is breaking the story. I checked to see if there is a story with this, but it’s not posted yet.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 7, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just heard it on "the Score"
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
by Blue W on May 7, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's a link now
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-manny-ramirez8-2009may08,0,6324894.story
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny Ramirez has tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs and will be suspended 50 games starting today, The Times has learned.
The test result and suspension is expected to be announced later today. The Dodgers informed triple-A outfielder Xavier Paul this morning that he was being promoted to Los Angeles.
Apparently, he’s suggesting it was medical treatment.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN is reporting it....huh....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
forgot to add this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a link on the Los Angeles Times.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 7, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nothing confirmed
there, still skeptical
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap
Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow…
That’s unbelievable. I will give Manny the benefit of the doubt that even he is not stupid enough to take performance enhancing drugs at this stage and that this was a pharmaceutical mixup of some sort. But still, the rules are the rules and he tested positive.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so then
he shouldn’t appeal, right? After all, rules are rules.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'd only be hurting the team by dragging this out.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should just take the suspension now
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on May 7, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he does that, he's out until early July
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 7, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
better july
than october.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in this case
I think the appeal is done before the suspension is announced, IIRC.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on May 7, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His story
Claims that the drugs were from a medical issue, and according to ESPN, the doctor who gave him the medicine said it wasn’t a drug. If and when he appeals, I wonder what things will be like in the hearing.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 7, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know
JC Romero seemed to have a pretty good case and is currently serving his 50 games. Different scenario (unlisted ingredient in a supplement), but still a good case.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Manny is screwed regardless the circumstance. Even if he tested positive for something he ate in his Fruity Pebbles, he is screwed.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that makes sense to you?
because it doesn’t make sense to me.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The strict liability
policies of the NFL and MLB with respect to drugs don’t make sense to me. Although, one article says Manny could have applied for a therapeutic exception, so Manny did have the option of running the drugs the doctor was proposing by MLB to see if it contained any PED.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on May 7, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, crushing for the Dodgers
gonna be replaced in LF by Juan Pierre…lol
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by tony412 on May 7, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good thing they have a solid replacement
That guy’s pretty good, right? Maybe we should think about trading for him . . .
by madcow256 on May 7, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He sure can bunt without hurting himself!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he's also near
the 10yr pension bump of his own!
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by tony412 on May 7, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I wonder how this is going to affect the Dodgers, as a team.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 7, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a BIG blow for the Dodgers
Manny is what makes that offense go. While Martin, Loney, Eithier and Kemp are good young ballplayers, what has made them tick is the presence of Manny in that lineup.
Fortunately for the Dodgers the NL West is wretched. They should be able to weather 50 games without Manny. And I can imagine he will come back a wee bit “motivated” shall we say.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
He likely will come back motivated after this, and as you correctly say, the NL West is very bad this year. This will take Ramirez out of the Dodgers-Cubs series at Wrigley Field at the end of May.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 7, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, if Theriot can hit for power...ah, nevermind.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot and Soto should pee in a cup
I kid. Sorta.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
stop talking.
neither Theriot nor Soto are showing any signs of substance abuse.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto should b/c he is struggling right now?
Im sure that steriods are leading to his .158 batting average.
Yet again Blue Mike crosses a line.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 7, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He isn't even appealing
After consultation with the Players’ Association and his personal representatives, Ramirez waived his right to challenge the suspension. He will lose about one-third of his $25 million salary.
From the ESPN link posted by SWL above
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on May 7, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Day-umm.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it
why not appeal anyway? It’s not like this issue is going to go away. ESPN’s going to have a field month.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if
more evidence would come out in the appeal that the players’ association and ramirez’s personal representative don’t want to come out, so they are suggesting that he sit out instead of tarnishing himself any further.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on May 7, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had that thought to
Its probably to his benefit to just sit on his hands and take the loss
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, no appeal
Was expecting it to be dropped to around 35 even without any real basis for appeal. It seems that’s the baseball way.
Guess he picked the wrong time to get pinched.
by rgonzale on May 7, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not exactly
They do not really reduce steroid suspensions. The onus of knowing what you put into your body is on the player. I would have liked to see him appeal but i have not heard about any player winning or having his sentence reduced for this kind of infraction
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Albert Pujols
A-Rod, Manny? NO DUH. Seriously. NO DUH. Only a matter of time before they catch Pujols on a drug test, or he gets implicated in some other fashion. Maybe this year. Maybe next. But, as they liked to say at Wrigley last year: “IT’S GONNA HAPPEN.”
Z.Z. Zoot
by Zooty Zoot on May 7, 2009 12:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
what evidence
do you have to suggest it? Has he had a large increase in power? Head gotten bigger?
Just because Manny screwed up — and it’s starting to sound like it was a medical condition he didn’t want to reveal, rather than Steroids — doesn’t mean Albert Pujols has.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're Right
Clemens, A-Rod, Manny, Sheffield, Sosa, Palmiero. None of them had any idea they were taking a banned substance. What a terrible system. Nobody’s using, but lots of people are being caught. I still think the Earth is flat.
Z.Z. Zoot
by Zooty Zoot on May 7, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as I know
Sosa has never been proved to be taking anything illegal.
You haven’t answered the question — what evidence do you have to suspect Pujols. There was plenty of evidence to suspect some players, less for others. It’s ok for you to say you don’t know.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there
was the corked bat. But steroids are the issue at hand and not many of the supposed steroids users have been shown to have been dirty.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was indeed the corked bat
on the other hand, if the steroids make you so powerful, WHY USE the corked bat?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evidence
Obviously, I have no direct evidence on Pujols, although he used the same trainer as some of the players implicated in the Mitchell Report. But I do have basic common sense. If I’m standing on the 22nd floor of a building and everybody on the street has an umbrella up, I am fairly confident, notwithstanding a lack of direct evidence, that it is raining outside. Pujols, from the moment he hit the Majors, has consistently outperformed in too many categories at a time when others at that level are all being implicated. Oh, right. I forgot about Barry Bonds. He was wrongly implicated too. Didn’t about one-third of all ballplayers test positive in the year before they implemented a testing regime? Let’s talk about the Cardinals. Vina? Yes. Ankiel? Yes. McGwire? Yes. (I forgot about McGwire too. He was framed. Obviously.) But Pujols? No way!
As for Sosa, just look at the pictures of the guy. Look at the pictures of Jason Giambi when he was in college. (Oh, yeah. Giambi was framed.)
PED use is rampant in all sports. LeBron James has developed too much muscle mass for me to believe it’s natural. Ben Gordon too, for that matter. Practically the whole NFL. I have no direct evidence, though. I admit. But I do have common sense.
Z.Z. Zoot
by Zooty Zoot on May 7, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is
guilt isn’t ascertained by common sense.
You said it yourself:
Pujols, from the moment he hit the Majors, has consistently outperformed in too many categories at a time when others at that level are all being implicated.
So, he was good from the very beginning. Why juice, then?
I’ve seen pictures of Sosa. I don’t find them compelling evidence of guilt.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And throwing LeBron and Ben Gordon
under the bus is stupid.
If you’re so suspicious, stop watching sports. Its obviously a sham full of cheaters.
by Allie on May 7, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa
So what happened to Sammy? If I recall, he came back to baseball noticeably smaller, then disappeared into the ether. Very strange.
By the way, I am throwing Andruw Jones under the bus, too. You could see it in his face. Or did he test positive? I’ve already forgotten.
Z.Z. Zoot
by Zooty Zoot on May 7, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who knows what happened to Sammy?
he had taken Androgene, hadn’t he? But that wasn’t banned. But he peaked in 1998 and started to regress in 2001. That seems pretty normal to me.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Allow me to correct a few "minor" factual errors
1. around 100 players tested positive in 2003 (i believe this is the test you a referring to) that was much closer to 1/9 than 1/3 (do some basic math here 30×30 = 900 not 300).
2. No one is saying that Bonds is innocent. We are saying he has not been proven guilty. We know he took steriods but there is no hard evidence to the fact.
3. you are suggesting in several of your points that adding muscle mass is evidence of steroid use. Lebron is 24 (i know because he is a year older than me) thats an age where a lot of guys fill out their figure and if you are aggressively working out you will build up a lot of muscle mass very quickly.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I stand corrected. 100 players tested positive. One wonders how many were using PED’s but tested negative either due to timing or because they were using something undetectable. Pretty rampant use, I’ll say. Certainly not a situation where one or two bad apples are cheating.
But no one will ever convince me. I’m sticking with my gut on Albert Pujols. I’ve been around long enough.
Z.Z. Zoot
by Zooty Zoot on May 7, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feel free to
believe what you will. Just please do not be on a jury if I am ever the defendent.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
by wax eagle on May 7, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Willful ignorance!
You qualify for the Sports Radio caller of the day!
Question- when you read for a long time do your lips get sore?
Never mind, that was mean, and I don’t know you. But you’ll never convince me I’m wrong!
"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher
by The Lip on May 7, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no hard evidence available to you
and that is assuming that his head or feet haven’t changed significantly in size.
by ol Pete on May 7, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
5-7%= 1/3?
5-7% of all tests in the 2003 survey were positive for banned substances.
Basic common sense? Ok. Then it is either your math or you concern for facts before you blurt out unsubstantiated opinions that is faulty.
I’d guess you may not be able to accurately identify those umbrellas you mention.
Carry on.
"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher
by The Lip on May 7, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not two hours since the story broke...
…and I’m already bored with this Manny thing. Maybe I’ll actually venture outside my office today.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2009 12:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
NO! THE DAY STAR WILL BURN YOU !
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
500 comments on the Manny thread
not to mention the posts on others threads. It’s going to be a long night if we don’t get some Cubs baseball here
by chitownhawkeye on May 7, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny needed help in the TWSS department???
According to a “source” anyway. Didnt know what else to call it. I guess we’re all gonna be there someday boys, some sooner than others!
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by tony412 on May 7, 2009 1:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That is creepy on more than one level
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 7, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of disturbing on more than
one level…
::shudder::
by Allie on May 7, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I work with this he-she
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by tony412 on May 7, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to say I am sorry for what I said
I should have known better that comment would be an opening for SWL to disturb us LOL
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on May 7, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that
Manny Abdul?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a free country...worship whatever you want I guess.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very topical headline, Al
…considering the Manny news.
by leothelip on May 7, 2009 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
must be that source he has
what’s it referred to as? was it Deepgoat? lol I seriously don’t remmber exactly.
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by tony412 on May 7, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
I had no prior knowledge. Weird coincidence, huh?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 7, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
Mannywood turns out to be balsa
by leothelip on May 7, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we get away from Manny ?
Check this out ….. I had to watch Reds / Marlins Tue night no Cubs broadcast…..
The Marlins announcers had John Dewan – The Fielding Bible guy…… according to him
Soriano has given up fewer runs then any LF since 06 … and when a guy at SS caught
a line drive …… and they asked who was the best infielder at this ….. he said pop ups
line drives …. Ryan Theroit……….. and of course he has the stats to back it up
statof theweek.com
by nimblenikelfoos on May 7, 2009 2:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Was he drinking with Sutt before the game?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marlins Broadcast
Tommy Hutton & Rick Walz
by nimblenikelfoos on May 7, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see that
although I believe it about Soriano. Best LF in the league.
However, I do see this:
Cubs Record Overall 191–150 .560 winning percentage
Cubs without Soriano 41–42 .494
Cubs with Soriano leadoff 146–99 .596
Cubs with Soriano elsewhere 4–9 .308
.500 without Sori.
.300 with Sori not in leadoff.
.600 with Sori in leadoff.
That should settle THAT.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
13/241 isn't likely to settle anything
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you are saying
Soriano should bat 5th?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 7, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bat him
ninth.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's kind of embarrassing how happy I get...
when Rich pitches well.
by Squeaky on May 7, 2009 3:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you can’t argue with why miles and micha are struggeling. They came into the season thinking they weren’t going to get much playing time. Hell micha was pretty much going to be used to give soriano,bradely and lee days off and that’s pretty much it. But with injuries to bradely and lee he’s played a lot more then i think lou planned to have him play. And miles was basically a back up middle INF, but then they had to move fontenot to 3B to cover a-rams injury, thus lou had to play miles at second. Yea they both aren’t performing to what we fans would like, but I think once we get to a regular lineup with all the starters playing they will both settle into a grove.
On a side note it Harden keeps up what he did yesterday, when big z gets back this team will be golden from a pitching stand point. Nothing like having two, possibly three guys that would be staff aces if they all didn’t pitch for the cubs.