Didn't We Just Say Hello To Houston? Time To Say Goodbye Already: Cubs vs. Astros, Thursday 5/7, 7:05 CT
There is, of course, a game between the Astros and Cubs tonight, in a couple of hours. But I imagine most of you are still interested in discussing the 50-game suspension handed down to Manny Ramirez today for PED use. We learn here that:
"The substance is not a steroid and it is not human-growth hormone," [a] source said.
Okay, so what was it? Manny said:
"Recently, I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me," Ramirez said in a statement issued by the players’ union.
"Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons."
The other passed tests, I think, are irrelevant if he failed one. The second link has this information:
The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the substance is supposed to boost sex drive. It is not Viagra, but a substance that treats the cause rather providing a temporary boost in sexual performance, the source said.
So besides not being able to play for the next seven weeks, Manny's going to be the butt of jokes. In the meantime, there are more important issues, the first of which is: the Cubs won't have to face Manny in the four-game series vs. the Dodgers at Wrigley Field from May 28-31. This is excellent news, particularly since his replacement is going to be Juan Pierre, who is just not very good any more (and wasn't that good in his "good" years).
What will this do to the Dodgers and the NL West? Maybe nothing, since there will be 83 games left in the season when Manny is eligible to return. However, the Dodgers were a .500 club -- 54-54 -- when they acquired Manny last July 31. He didn't make a huge difference for them in the regular season -- they were 30-24 with him -- but it was enough to put them in the playoffs. Right now, LA sports the best record in baseball at 21-8 and they have a 6.5 game lead in the NL West, which has no other teams playing over .500. If the Dodgers play .500 ball over the next 50 games, they'll be 46-33, a record which likely still will be good enough to be a division leader.
Still, I am very happy that the Cubs will be facing a depleted Dodger team at Wrigley Field at the end of this month.
I have only one more question, presuming Manny is telling the truth about his reason for testing positive: if you are to be prescribed something in the current climate regarding PED's in baseball, wouldn't it be prudent to have the doctor, yourself, your agent, or all three check first to see if that prescription passes MLB's requirements? Why wouldn't you do this?
Answer that question and I think you'll have the answer as to why Manny was caught.
Did I mention there was a game tonight?
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Russ Ortiz? I mean, seriously, RUSS ORTIZ?!?!!? Just so you don't think the Cubs are the only team wasting money on bad veteran players, the Astros are paying Ortiz $750,000 this year. And he's been bad. 17 walks and 17 hits allowed in 19 innings is bad. He is 3-4, 5.46 lifetime vs. the Cubs in 11 games (9 starts). One of those relief appearances was on April 8, when he gave up three runs in three innings, including the only HR he has allowed this year, a three-run job by Mike Fontenot. It might be a good time to give D-Lee another day off: he's only 3-for-32 lifetime vs. Ortiz. Reed Johnson is 4-for-4 off Ortiz with two doubles and a HR; maybe it's a good day to start him vs. a RHP.
Seriously. There are probably ten pitchers in Houston's farm system who could do better than this.
Ted Lilly was the starter and winner in that April 8 game, despite giving the Astros four home runs (Lance Berkman, Jeff Keppinger, Ivan Rodriguez and Kaz Matsui). Since that game Ted has given up only two homers in 26.2 innings. Lilly has also had excellent control this year, with only six walks in 31.2 total innings. Keep up the good work -- Ted could become the Cubs' first four-game winner tonight.
You might think the reason today's game is on CSN Chicago Plus is the Blackhawks, but you'd be wrong. The hockey game is only on Versus. The White Sox get the main CSN channel tonight. It's also on FSN Houston and on EI. For more games today see the MLB.com Mediacenter.
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Overflow comment threads will post today at 8 pm, 9 pm and 9:45 pm CDT.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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sorry al,
with the depleted state of the astros farm system, I have to disagree that there are 10 pitchers in their farm system that can do better than that.
Well, maybe.
OK, how about this: there are probably 10 people who will be in the stands at the Juice Box tonight who could do better than Russ Ortiz.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
12...I bet there are at least a couple HS pitchers in attendance tonight.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope no one minds a religious reference
because this totally reminds me of that scene in Genesis where Moses tries to bargain for Sodom and Gomorrah, “What if there are just ten righteous people to be found?”… and with Russ Ortiz involved the ending is likely to be just as disastrous.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Goodbye Houston. We won't miss you.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
Caption: KITT, this game's over, get me outta here.
I hope Theodore’s got his broom handy cos the Cubs are goin’ a-sweepin’.
remember
Sammy Jankis
Manny
Lost in all the jokes that are going to pop up (no pun intended) about his sex drive is the fact that drugs like these are used as part of a steroid cycle. These female fertility drugs are very popular amongst juicers. I found this explanation on a website that apparently sells clomid to
In men, the application of Clomid causes an elevation of follicle stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone. As a result, natural testosterone production is also increased. This effect is obviously beneficial to the athlete, especially at the conclusion of a steroid cycle when endogenous testosterone levels are subnormal. When an athlete discontinues the use of steroids, his testosterone levels will most likely be suppressed. If endogenous testosterone levels are not brought to normal, a dramatic loss in size and strength may occur. Clomid plays a crucial role in preventing this crash in athletic performance. Bodybuilders find that a daily intake of 50-100 mg of clomiphene citrate over a two week period will bring endogenous testosterone production back to an acceptable level. Clomid will gradually raise testosterone levels over its period of intake. Since an immediate boost in testosterone is often desirable, athlete will commonly use HCG (human chronic gonadotropin) for a couple of weeks, and the continue treatment with Clomid . Clomid is also effective as an anti-estrogen. Most athletes will suffer from an elevated estrogen level at the conclusion of a cycle. A high estrogen level combined with a low testosterone level puts an athlete in serious risk of developing gynocomastia. With the intake of Clomid , the athlete gets the dual effect of blocking out some of the effects of estrogen, while also increasing endogenous testosterone production
So lets not lose sight of the fact that it is very possible that Manny was prescribed this HCG for the same reason that juicers are.
by dmlichte on May 7, 2009 5:09 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Good point.
I read this somewhere also today.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on May 7, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
ya
This is not the case of “I just took some random wrong drug that no one realizes is a banned substance”. I read Game of Shadows a few months ago and once I heard the report that the drug that Manny used was a female fertility drug I immediately drew the tie to Bonds and his use of Clomid. So any athlete and any physician who isn’t brain dead knows the implications of this drug.
but his agent isnt (Boras)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
dunno bout that either....
remember, he wanted 5-6 years for someone who turns 37 this year.
He's not brain dead
but he is greedy. Sadly, it usually works.
by chitownhawkeye on May 7, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I assumed that he was in fact
trying to juice without being caught and his pathetic excuse should not let him get away with pretending it was anything else. However funny state of affairs when he would apparently rather be tagged as a guy who has trouble getting and keeping it up then a juicer. The Boras press machine must be in overdrive.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 7, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
indeed
I just hope that the fans realize that there is much more to this than Manny having problems in bed.
more to this than Manny having problems in bed
not to be stupid, but can a female fertility drug help a guy in bed?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
apparently
the drug he took supposedly boosts testosterone production and inhibits estrogen absorbtion.
Which is irrelevant really
in today’s game, you shouldn’t be taking anything that could show up on a drug test. If it was legit, why didn’t several layers of personnel, doctors and trainers, tell him to stay away from it.
by chitownhawkeye on May 7, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
The story goes (and again I'm not interested in defending Manny)
that his doctor looked at last year’s list.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
if you make $24M a season
no reason to not have it checked out by MLBPA before taking it.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
If you make $24M a season
and you want to use a PED,
no reason not to buy the best PEDs that aren’t detectable by current testing.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Bill Murray definitely will be making an appearance tonight!
at least I hope….
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
Well, you have to win 11 in a row before you can win 13 in a row.
But they probably won’t be doing either.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I know winning 13 in a row is always impressive
but when you take into account that all 13 wins are against teams that are currently under .500, it becomes a tad less impressive. Also the fact that the team is just 8-8 on the road means that the Dodgers aren’t nearly as good as ESPN would like one to believe
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
If you're sweeping a bunch of teams early in the season....
that alone will hurt their records, so being under .500 isn’t that big of a deal.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
they're the NL West teams, and Washington
does that make it less impressive?
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
Technically yes
on the other hand, they’ve got a nice divisional lead, so what difference does it make if they’re a weak team, they still make the playoffs and have a chance.
by chitownhawkeye on May 7, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
not really....
winning that many games in a row is impressive no matter who you play.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
which is what I said in the beginning, however ESPN is holding the team up as the second coming
of murderer’s row. They’ve played a ton of games against poor teams, and are just 8-8 on the road.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
its not the BCS
a win is a win, right?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
GO CUBS GO!!!
lets sweep the ’stros!!!
Guy at bar: "Do you just like that hat or do you like Chicago?"
Me: "I'm in Love, Obsessed and Addicted to the Chicago Cubs!"
I'll try to post some photos
I’ll be at the game. Dunno if I can post photos to BCB from my phone, but I’ll probably tweet some. (twitter.com/dlee)
And the twittername isn’t Cubs related, that’s my first initial/last name. People ask me if Derrek Lee is my favorite player because of that, but I probably have to go with Z of the current lineup.
Hey, Russ Ortiz!
Why the long face?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I wonder how long ESPN will run continuous Manny clips...
…over the next week?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Good point.
But at some point they have to start hyping up the next Red Sox/Yankees series.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Which is when
they start questioning how many of those games were tainted by God A and God B.
And whether or not Brett Favre had anything to do with it.
remember
Sammy Jankis
by neverAcquiesce on May 7, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you kidding?
It’s HCGate ’09!
remember
Sammy Jankis
by neverAcquiesce on May 7, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Remember when Favre un-retired last summer?
Take that, multiply it by 9,871,225,443.88732 and you’ll get your answer.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Good point.
Let’s make a pledge to focus on the game tonight, rather than Mannywood (who knew that promotion was so ironic).

"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I think it took all of 30 minutes
for that promotion to disappear from the Dodger website.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
I have tickets for two of the Dodgers
games. In a way, I was looking forward to seeing Manny. No doubt he is one of the true superstars in the game. And, it is nice to say you beat a team at full strength.
However, with today’s news, I will get over it.
Unfortunately, I CANNOT get over Juan Pierre for two very good pitchers.
Seeing him will remind me of another Hendry brain fart.
But there's a chance with Manny
we’d’ve been playing them at Full Strength +1. And that, if true, is called cheating.
remember
Sammy Jankis
by neverAcquiesce on May 7, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I have tickets for that series as well
and my a-hole Dodgers fan friend is coming into town for it. It’ll be good.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
photo caption: He who smelt it, clearly didn't belt it
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Long Time Reader 1st Time Poster so take it easy on the rook...
But Normally when I go to games I sit in the bleachers. However next week vs the Padres on Tuesday and Wednesday I have tickets in section 110-1. I was curious if there are any season ticket holders or any regulars that sit in that section a lot. How are the seats, the view, and I am assuming no obstructed view and I am out in the open non underneath the second deck? Any help would be greatly appreciated and lets get a W tonight.
"Cubs Win, Cubs Win, CUBS WIN!"
Steve McMichael: "I'm going to have to have a talk with that umpire down there." Angel Hernadez than ejected McMichael. 08/07/2001
Section 110 is down the LF line in the field boxes.
Those are nice seats. Enjoy!
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Time to take the two game set
This guy sucks at pitching, Ted Lilly doesn’t. I’m certain Carlos Lee gets his homer tonight, just make it a solo shot and we win 8-1.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
Caption:
Talking in his Dick Tracy watch to Maxwell Smart’s shoe phone.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
Would this be a bad time to discuss why Milton hasn't really hit at all yet?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 5:57 PM CDT reply actions
Do you all think it's physical, mental or both?
I think he’s pressing and putting too much pressure on himself.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
honestly?
I believe he’s run into some tough outs. BUT – they would only bring him up to the Mendoza line.
Im not worried its but like what? 50-60 abs?
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
does anyone know if his swing looks much different from previous years?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I dont
I noticed he is very amped at the plate at all times. Like a crazy amount of adrenaline
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
No
Also why isn’t Geo hitting? Hopefully his first homer happens tonight.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
you know what? Milton's not-hitting doesn't really bother me a bit.
Not when I look at his OBP, currently at .297. If he can keep a +.162 differential (or anything in that vicinity) when he finally does start to hit, I’ll be ecstatic. His (relatively) high OBP tells me that the guy has a good eye and he’s not changing his approach just because he’s stinking up the place. And given that his approach has been highly offensive (heh, heh) in the past, I’m perfectly willing to wait this one out.
Now, w.r.t. my fantasy team (sorry Carmen) yeah he’s pissing me off and I’m open to trading him if someone makes a decent offer…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'll trade you Manny for him.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll trade you Juan Pierre for him!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmm... I would definitely consider that.
I’ll have to go see who has Manny in our league.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Another Braves cast-off on the mound tonight?
Ortiz
LIGHT EM UP!
"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
The other tests
The other passed tests, I think, are irrelevant if he failed one.
Why are they irrelevant? Do you believe that the current testing is working? If so, then why not believe that Manny wasn’t taking anything until 2009?
If on the other hand the current testing is not working, then does even a positive test really tell us anything other than that Manny won’t be playing for 50 days?
Derrek Lee is good.
The latter is why the previous tests are irrelevant.
Manny’s obviously mentioning them to try to say, “Hey, I never did this before, so I must not be guilty now.”
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Hey, I've never robbed a bank before...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
oddly, that's exactly the metaphor I was going to use
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
already our minds are becoming one...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
i guess some are still buying the phrase
its only cheating if you get caught.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I guess the question here is -
do you believe he never did it before? That would seem to be relevant for Manny’s HoF case, even if he is totally guilty now.
The general flow of today’s Manny thread seemed to suggest the opposite – that all of his career is suspect now. If you believe that, then the whole testing system seems untrustworthy, including any positive results.
Look, let’s be clear. I have no interest in defending Manny. I just see little to commend the current testing system.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
OT: Seinfeld alert - "The Contest" episode is now airing on Fox32 here in Chicago
Wonder if there’ll be more TWSS than usual in the game threads tonight because of that…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Anybody listening to the pregame show on WGN?
Did you hear Judd cackle like a witch just a moment ago? Scary.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
10 runs per inning, or 10 runs total?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
does anyone have tonights line up handy
"Cubs Win, Cubs Win, CUBS WIN!"
Steve McMichael: "I'm going to have to have a talk with that umpire down there." Angel Hernadez than ejected McMichael. 08/07/2001
Drew tells us
Sori Riot Dome Rami Hoff Bradley Fonty Soto Lilly
"Aramis Ramirez, with the guys I've ever played with in my career, is as clutch a hitter as I've seen. He smells it." -Ryan Dempster
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Still no
Derrek. wonder if this injuries perhaps keeps bobby scales around
"Cubs Win, Cubs Win, CUBS WIN!"
Steve McMichael: "I'm going to have to have a talk with that umpire down there." Angel Hernadez than ejected McMichael. 08/07/2001
by MandMexpress12 on May 7, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
You said the SECRET WORD!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I just hurt my neck
…on Saturday and had to take Mon-Wed off. So I can get where he is coming from.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
I don't know about Scales
but if the neck is still bothering him, I’d much rather he goes on the DL now and tries to get it as healthy as possible.
by chitownhawkeye on May 7, 2009 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions
OT - Manny (sorry guys)
can fans sue Selig of MLB for false advertising, with all the PEDs being used, etc?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
yep those false advertising suits are
always successful -
by doofus cubs guy on May 7, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
How can Pete Rose still be banned...
from baseball for gambling, yet those who are caught CHEATING are allowed back?
I hear people say gambling is the biggest sin in baseball. Isn’t cheating the biggest sin in any type of competition?
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
Someone might correct me here
but I think it’s particularly that he gambled on games he managed/played in. At least the cheater is someone we know is trying to win. A gambler can try to lose in order to make money.
So, I guess the question is – do you believe the Black Sox scandal was worse than the Steroid Era scandal?
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong.
What Pete did was shameful and he deserves punishment. I just think a punishment should fit the crime; seeing how all these cheaters continue playing, and Pete is still banned, seems unfair.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"

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