Manny Ramirez To Be Suspended 50 Games
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 10:50 AM CDT
Email
Print
via cache.boston.com
I just heard it announced on ESPN1000 that the LA Times are reporting that Manny Ramirez is going to be suspended 50 games for testing positive for performance enhancing drugs. I can't find a link to it yet (because it hasn't been officially announced by the league) but I'll post one as soon as it becomes available. The announcement should be coming later today.
So how does this affect the race to the NL Championship?
**Update: they just posted the link...
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
529 comments
|
5 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Thanks
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
leave it to..
..the guy with the Kenny Powers avatar to break this story on bcb, lol..good job!
We Got This!
by cubbiebear316 on May 7, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Can I wear the mask from SCREAM?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
LMAO +1
Didn’t even consider that lol
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Beat me by a minute
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-manny-ramirez8-2009may08,0,6324894.story
Clearly the biggest name to be suspended. This puts into question the Dodger’s achievements from both this season and last, when they likely would not have made the playoffs without Manny.
I don't know about "clearly" the biggest name
A-Rod has to be up there
by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 7, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
A-rod has
not been suspended
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
He was caught
but for using before the current steroid policy and its suspensions, so they can’t suspend him under the current rules because they were not in force when he was using.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
Except for, obviously, the 50 game "unoffical" suspension ARod is serving now...
… if you buy in to the conspiracy theories.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 7, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Darn
I was typing my fanpost when I saw that posted
DODGERS CHEATED
CUBS SHOULD HAVE WON NLDS
just kidding
Go Cubs Go, Fly Eagles Fly, http://twitter.com/mlbtrivia
I'll admit, that was my first thought too.
Up is down, nothing is what it seemed. Even Manny was cheating.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Well, here's a question
does this test result indicate previous guilt?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
not neccesarily
though the lack of appeal is concerning to me.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
has he had time to do so?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
are you allowed to appeal
a drug suspension? I thought part of the agreement between MLB and MLBPA was you cannot appeal.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I don't know
but if you’re not allowed to appeal, then the lack of an appeal can’t be an indictment.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
From wikipedia (i know not most reliable, but best i could find now)
Appeals
Within 24 Hours of a positive test result, HPAC will notify the Player in question. He has two business days to inform HPAC that he intends to challenge the result. During that period, HPAC is prohibited from informing any other party of the positive test result. If no appeal is made, HPAC informs the Office of the Commissioner of the positive test result, and within 24 hours, the Office of the Commissioner will notify the Player and the Club of the disciplinary measure taken, effective immediately. The player can grieve any action taken, but such discipline will not be stayed while the grievance is pending.
HPAC can unanimously decide the appeal is without merit and continue with the discipline process. If the appeal is reasonably based, HPAC will notify the Commissioner of Baseball, who in turn will notify the Player and the Club within 24 of any disciplinary action taken, effective two businiess days after the notice is sent. If the player files a grievance with the discipline taken, the discipline will be stayed until the Arbitration Panel issues an award.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Manny
is choosing not to appeal. There is a blurb in the ESPN link about that:
After consultation with the Players’ Association and his personal representatives, Ramirez waived his right to challenge the suspension. He will lose nearly $8 million of his $25 million salary.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
good quesion
In my mind, what it tells me is that all of his numbers are under suspicion. To me, if someone uses once, their entire career should be called into question.
Of course not.
But it’s a decent indicator, especially in light of his dinged-up injuries in Boston last year, and the previous rumors about him being on the same list as A-Rod. Why would Manny start using now of all times?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
ditto
and whata blow to LAD
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I guess
that leaves Pujols. Atleast now we know how he golfed that ball out of the Wrigley in the NLDS
As much as I dislike
Pujols simply because he’s a Cardinal, it truly would be devastating if he tested positive. I’m not old enough to have seen Ted Williams and the others but I can imagine what it would have been like. The guy can flat out hit. 11 HR and 9 Ks so far this season. Unreal!!
He’s on pace to hit .364/.467/1.215 with 66 HR, 185 RBI, 54 Ks, 113 BB, with 24 SB.
devastating?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
That would be ridiculous lol
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
That homerun he hit in the NLDS
made me a little suspicious. I was amazed at that homerun.
Mention Pujols here as the next in line is just flat-out stupid.
It’s a disservice to the man and frankly I do not know of any evidence that suggests such a thing.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
That's the point.
What evidence was there to suggest Manny would have done this? You can’t assume these guys are clean…and you can’t assume they are dirty. There is no way to know.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on May 7, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
well,
the evidence was in the blood test.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Honest humor
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
xO
You beat me too, I just saw this on the news. I can’t believe it!
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Wow... this has HUGE implications for the NL West.
Now there are NO good teams in that division.
(p.s. can we get a re-do on last years playoff series?)
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on May 7, 2009 10:54 AM CDT reply actions
indeed
this is going to play havoc with the Dogers’ chances.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
They'll get Manny back
in time to make a run at the division. I don’t remember how many games were left in the season when the Dodgers got Manny last year, but they will get him back this year with 85 games left in the season. That division is bad enough that, I think, the Dodgers will still come out on top.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
Thats plenty
If manny is half the player he currently is they will be fine.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I agree
the Dodgers won the division last year because they had Manny for the last 53 games of the season. 85 games of Manny will be plenty to win that division this year
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
Not really
Their pitching won more games during that stretch than Manny did. Manny just provided more excitement, which is why everyone thinks he can walk on water. Funny how it didn’t work out for the Dodgers in the NLCS.
They lost to the champs
There was arguably one team that performed better than they did in the playoffs. Before getting Manny, few believed they would pass the Diamondbacks.
I guess this explains that ridiculous golf shot he hit off Sean Marshall.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Great...now this will be the news all day
my only question is do we play LA within 50 days? It would be nice to play the dodgers without pitching against Manny.
This has been a very bad month for baseball. First A-Rod has admitted he used steroids, now Manny has tested positive. These are arguably two of the biggest stars in the game of baseball. This test at least shows me that MLB’s testing policy is actually working and catching people.
If Bobby Scales tests postive...
I’m not sure MLB would ever recover.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on May 7, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think I'd recover...
I heart Bobby Scales :)
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Neifi tested positive before
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
For speed.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Yeah, I think I knew that...
Damn….
OK, waiting for Fontenot’s!
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Macias
would be horrible…….
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
the only thing
i tested positive for was skillz
by neifi on May 7, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
skills
or MADD Skillz
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
We played LA 4 times in the last week of May.
And not again until the 3rd week of August.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Thd Dodgers come to Chicago May 28-31
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 7, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
The loss of Ramirez would leave a gaping hole in the Dodgers’ lineup. Juan Pierre, the likely replacement for Ramirez in left field, has batted ninth in two of his five starts this season.
Think they might want to work out a trade for Joey?
they're not going to let them
both bat at the same time.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
SHOCKER!!!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Glad you went with that image for "Shocker" as opposed to others...
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson
I blame ESPN
they worked Bud so they could get more play out of their west coast sportscenter thing. Or are they not doing that anymore?
Holy Christ
This one was actually my stunner.
I subscribed to the theory that Manny wouldn’t be willing or able to stick to a regimen.
Forget the Dodgers. The Red Sox now have two tainted World Series wins.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
We don't know when Manny started taking.
He may have started only after being traded.
Derrek Lee is good.
He also may not
have started until he took this medication for what he calls a “personal healthy issue.” He said that he saw the doctor that prescribed him the medication “recently”, what ever that means.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
Here's the thing I find ironic about fan reactions to this release -
it would seem to me that you either believe the testing is working or you believe it isn’t.
If it’s working, then Manny is guilty and none of these other names being thrown out – Pujols, Soto, etc. are guilty. They also have been tested and proved innocent, right?
If it’s not working, such that players making a lot of money can get around the tests, then why would you be certain that Manny really is guilty? Why would a guy with 25 M coming in this year, buy a cheap PED that could be caught in testing? If everyone’s suspect, even w/o a positive drug test, then wouldn’t the unlucky guy who tested positive be just as likely to be innocent?
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
that's
a darn good point.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
damn you and your reasonable thought process
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
forgor...REC'D DGU
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Oh I have a reason
a ton late to this post, but:
He could have gotten a waiver from MLB if he really needed to use the HCG- but he didn’t so he was hiding something.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 15, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I hate Scott Boras so much
Manny and Boras are gonna try their best to spin the situation and blame it on something else.
already have
Ramirez is expected to attribute the test results to medication received from a doctor for a personal medical issue, according to a source familiar with matter but not authorized to speak publicly.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-manny-ramirez8-2009may08,0,6324894.story
Shift of power
WOW!!! This will have a huge impact on the NL West race. It’s one thing to start off the season with the suspension, but now that you are almost at the quarter point of the season it is even bigger.
In looking at the schedule, I see that we have 4 against the Dodgers in late May. He would miss those. He would be back by the time we go to Chavez Ravine. Sometimes it’s a question of when you play a team.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
Impact on Race...
I dont’ think there’s hardly enough in the division to overtake the LAD during the next 50. AZ might be the only one with even a puncher’s chance.
Proudly waving the Cubbie Blue from Northern Missouri! GO CUBS GO!
Perhaps if they get healthy
but really that division is terrible.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Damn, I'm not suprised though...
wonder how this affects his contract. Knowing MLBPA he prolly won’t miss a dime.
"Blagojevich's telephone log shows several calls to members of the team, including manager Lou Piniella, coach Larry Rothschild and John McDonough," -The Chicago Tribune 3/31/09
He loses about 1/3 of this season's pay
according to the LA Times article.
The Dodgers still have the best lineup 1-8 in the NL West, and with Manny, probably the best in all of baseball.
I’m sure they are still the frontrunners for that horseshit division. This doesn’t do anything in the grand scheme of things if the Dodgers control that division and Manny’s back with something to prove come late summer and playoff time.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
all
they have to do is play 500 baseball till the end of the season from here out and they have it.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Maybe not even 500
That division is so abysmal
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Honestly...these tests for these players seem to infrequent to be effective...
would it be horrible to have every mlb player pee in a cup every other week? It just seems like people can get around these tests by having a general idea of when they’re tested.
How would this have changed last year?
What if Manny got caught the week before the playoffs last year?
We played horrible but he hit some dingers. Dodgers lineup would have been constructed differently.
A lot of “what if’s”?
and Canseo said that he is positive
that Manny was on before this test and would be one of the covered names from the same test round that ARod was on according to his speech at USC recently according to Hampton on WSCR just now.
How many of Boras’ clients have been guilty now of positive tests? When does the agent get questioned if he was aware or worse yet had anything to do with getting them for his clients?
here is a link to Canseco about Manny (prior to this suspension being released)
http://www.scoresreport.com/tag/jose-canseco-steroids/
What about Manny Ramirez? someone asks.
He says this, despite the fact that A-Rod isn’t being treated as toxic, nor are other players who were caught up in the steroid scandal but publicly apologized, including Miguel Tejada, starting shortstop for the Houston Astros, and Andy Pettitte, a starting pitcher with the New York Yankees.
Why didn’t Ramirez get a long-term deal? Canseco asks. Why were owners gun-shy about signing arguably the game’s best hitter?
Never mind that Ramirez was asking for a mega-deal at age 36. Or that he was negotiating in a sickly economy, while weighed down by the heavy baggage of a surly reputation. Canseco will have none of it. To Canseco, the drawn-out negotiation, the lack of a long-term deal, the lack of interest all raise red flags, and so he tells the Bovard crowd that Ramirez’s "name is most likely, 90%," on the list.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I thought he was an idiot
when I first saw that when he first came out and said it…
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
how ironic
I wonder what would have been different had MLB not black balled him
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Yea for real...
I still think he’s a slimy person and very self-serving but I guess you can’t argue with his results.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Time to stop criminalizing Canseco.
His word has been pretty acurate to this point.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
You're right about that
Canseco may be a selfish idiot, but his accusations have been pretty accurate.
I still don’t like him though because my impression is that he isn’t making these accusations for the betterment of baseball.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
Canseco has been right every single time
He may be a piece of crap person, but he knows his steroid users.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
exactly.
I still question Boras’ influence at this point, since it seems to be his clients time and time again now. Does he have advance knowledge, is he pushing them (well not much of a push I would bet) so he can pad his own bank account with the large contracts. I have not researched, but I am curious how many of his clients are testing positive.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
from what was reported on ESPN,
they get the news of the positive test in advance so they get time to appeal. So Boras and Manny knew this was coming, so they’ve had plenty of time to spin the situation and possibly alter documents to create an alibi for Manny.
by aznsensation on May 7, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
the advance I mean
is was Boras aware that any of his clients are/were using a PED (prescribed or not), and turned away baceuse he wants large contracts for this clients so he can get his large spiff for it.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Correlation does not imply causation...
… and it could be that Boras, being the beast of an agent that he is, is getting the players on roids by simple process of elimination. He’s the agent every player wants, so he gets to pick and choose who he represents. He’ll chose the best players, who, it seems, increasingly have a pattern of guilt.
I hate Boras as much as anybody else, and i’ve actually met him and can confirm he’s just as despicable as you’d believe… but he’s also incredibly talented at his craft. Being an agent is a shady business, and he’s the best / most shady.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 7, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course, the fact that he flat-out quit on the Red Sox
probably had something to do with it, too.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
word
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
POST OF THE YEAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
Pujols is the only one that would surprise me...
As far as I’m concerned any one else could be caught and it would just be a shrug of the shoulders, Pujols getting caught would destroy the sport’s credibility for good.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL...destroy the credibilty of MLB? Oxymoron.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Whatever it had left after the the past 10 years of players being caught...
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Pujols wouldn't suprise me
Manny was the one guy I didn’t think was.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I dunno...
…David Eckstein comes to the top of my “Probably NOT Juicing” list.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
I agree .....this one is really shocking to me. Albert wouldnt surprise me at all....
New sig currently under construction
and the strikes...and the ridiculous railroading by the MLBPA...and the lunacy of the TV blackout policy.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
The All-Star Game
Joe Buck and Tim McCarver
The Rays dropping the “Devil” from their name
The Florida Marlins selling off their teams — twice
We all like baseball in spite of it, not because of it
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Bad umpiring, ridiculous copyright policy, terrible website
Too bad they’re making so much money otherwise Bud would’ve been run out of town by now.
by dr stabbingworth on May 7, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Well while I agree with you from a fan's perspective
I still understand that it’s a business and they’re always looking out for their (the owners and leagues) best interests. I don’t agree with it at all and you’re right, it makes them seem like a joke but it is what it is I guess.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Pujols, Griffey and Frank Thomas
would be surprises, but no one seems safe anymore
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Somebody explain this Pujols thing to me
Guy comes up in the heart of the steroids era. Is managed by the biggest steroid harborer in the game, surrounded by dirty names and dirty players. I don’t understand how he is above suspicion.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
I am not sayign anyone is above suispicion
but when you look at the character of Pujols in comparision to ARod or Manny it speaks volumns. Then again, no one spoke bad about Andy Pettite either.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I thought Manny was a good character person before last year
you just never know. I wouldn’t be surprised if Pujols tested positive.
by aznsensation on May 7, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
A character person gives up on his team?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Not sure why you would think that
Manny was not liked by many players and you might ask the Red Sox traveling secretary who he slammed to the ground when the guy failed to get him extra tickets to a big game how good his character was.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 7, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, thats explainable. It was the roid rage.
Die By The Blade - An SB nation destination for Sabres fans everywhere
by Zachary Zielonka on May 7, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
except it doesn't appear to have been
steroids.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
We don't know a damn thing about their characters
We only know what they choose to show the media.
For all we know, Derrek Lee is an axe murderer.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
So is that why his neck is sore?
Too much chopping?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Noone Suspected Dexter Morgan
except Sgt. Doakes, and we all know what happened to him.
Funny the way it is, how a kid walks ten miles to school while another is dropping out
he blew up..
haha..vanished by fire!
We Got This!
by cubbiebear316 on May 7, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice guys can cheat too
I’m not claiming that Pujols is on steroids or was on steroids, simply that putting him above suspicion when he is in the heart of the steroid problem is being ignorant.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
I think Pujols is clean and has always been clean
He might play for the hated Cardinals, but when all is said and done he is destined to go down as one of the absolute greats whoever played baseball. In the lexicon of names like Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron.
I also think it is high time Frank Thomas get a lot more credit for his career achievements. Keep in mind also that Thomas narrowly lost winning a third MVP when he was beat by Jason Giambi while in Oakland. Of course we all know about Giambi.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
They both have
bulked up considerably. Look at pictures of both of them when they first came up. No one is above suspicion, in my book anyway.
"Blagojevich's telephone log shows several calls to members of the team, including manager Lou Piniella, coach Larry Rothschild and John McDonough," -The Chicago Tribune 3/31/09
by TheRamZamDLEE on May 7, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Frank Thomas?
He’s bulked up lately, because he’s getting older and overweight. He never had a substantial jump in muscle mass or a spike in power numbers. The dude was always like that.
Nah he wasn't
He was real lean when he came up. A big man no doubt, but a lean big man
"Blagojevich's telephone log shows several calls to members of the team, including manager Lou Piniella, coach Larry Rothschild and John McDonough," -The Chicago Tribune 3/31/09
by TheRamZamDLEE on May 7, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
No, he wasn't
Frank Thomas came into the league a 260 pound monster. He was always a big tuna.
I could care less your opinion in the same way you could care less about mine. But to me it is clear that Pujols, Thomas and Griffey were three superstars at least who were immune from the performance enhancing drug era. Which makes their accomplishments all the more eye-popping.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
by BLou on May 7, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
he is correct
hell Thomas was a big boy and scouted for football
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Do me a favor
look for some pics of him when he came up. Of course he was a big man, he bulked up though. Just look at some pics
"Blagojevich's telephone log shows several calls to members of the team, including manager Lou Piniella, coach Larry Rothschild and John McDonough," -The Chicago Tribune 3/31/09
by TheRamZamDLEE on May 7, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Look at the size of those arms and thighs
And listed at 245 pounds. Thomas was always a big tuna. And muscular.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
that was also in college
before he could afford good steak dinners nightly
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I think Auburn football's training table took care of that
Frank has always been huge and muscular. After he became a pro, he got slightly more muscular and a bit fatter.
IIRC, He and his ChiSox teammates also took on the union and asked for mandatory tests for everyone, which for Frank was probably motivated by his annoyance at being in HR races with Bret Boone.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
People get larger with age
Thomas has always been big.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
Yea but
when a baseball player does it… I’m just not ruling him out that’s all. I would like to that one of the best players I got to watch a s kid is legit. Hard for me not to be suspect when all the other greats have been proven to be frauds.
"Blagojevich's telephone log shows several calls to members of the team, including manager Lou Piniella, coach Larry Rothschild and John McDonough," -The Chicago Tribune 3/31/09
by TheRamZamDLEE on May 7, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
How about this?
http://i3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/280/412/76/FRANK_THOMAS_RC.JPG
I don’t see anything like Barry Bonds here. It’s crazy to think that after joining the MLB he wouldn’t have had a more strict training and lifting regimen that would have led to getting stronger.
On top of that, he was outspoken about drug testing throughout his entire career. No way.
unlike Frank
Bonds actually had to get a larger hat with a shaved head. There are only two things that make your hat size get larger as an adult (not including hair), one is a family disease (no one in his family nor he have been diagnosed with it) and the other is, well, steroids.
Frank, there has yet to be a connection to him and PED’s.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Pujols might be dirty because
He played with Mark McGwire. Managed by Tony LaRussa, his first base coach Dave McKay wrote a weightlifting book with Jose Canseco. McKay’s son was busted for using. Rick Ankiel. The Cardinals are one of the dirtiest organizations when it comes to steroids, don’t put people above suspicion.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
by nji232 on May 7, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You can rip LaRussa all you want
But show me one ounce of proof that he knowlingly approved his players taking performance enhancing drugs either in Oakland or St. Louis. I think it can be safely said that 99.5% of managers, coaches and front office personnel were either ignorant or turned a blind eye to steroids in the past.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
Turning a blind eye
is not much different from knowingly approving.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
turning a "blind eye" is tantamount to being an accomplice...
if you see someone breaking into someones home and you just watch them do it you’re not innocent.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
are you serious?
He managed Jose Canseco who has said he put needles in his butt in the locker room. LaRussa knew and knows exactly what is going on. Don’t be stupid.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
And you know what...
Dusty Baker was in that San Francisco lockeroom all those years with Barry Bonds. Joe Torre was in the New York lockeroom with Jason Giambi. Hell. Lou Piniella was in the lockerrooms of Cincinnati and Seattle with Bret Boone.
So by your logic…
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
go on....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
...to indict Tony LaRussa is ridiculous
Not unless you are prepared to indict the big majority of other big league managers during the era.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
LaRussa has also
gone further than any other manager or GM in defending his guys, specifically McGwire.
LaRussa seems to be the last person who believes McGwire did anything wrong.
So yeah, I put LaRussa in a different category than Torre, Baker and Pinella.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
ESPN also thinks tony is dirty
Read this story where LaRussa still believes that McGwire didn’t use.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
I am.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Joe Torre is just as bad
Same with Dusty, who probably injected his players.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
...and Lou Piniella did his Ray Charles routine around Bret Boone????
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
...and Bobby Cox with Marcus Giles
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
yes and yes
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
....and Bob Brenly with Luis Gonzalez
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
and Bochy with Caminiti...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure seems like Boone did his roids in San Diego
I hate to paint with such a broad brush, but geez those mid-to-late-90’s Padres teams were a bunch of juicers.
You can practically trace the steroid outbreak in MLB like a virus, from the time Caminiti and Finley arrived in SD from Houston, and then follow where all their teammates travelled.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
How about those Phillies
with Daulton, Dykstra, Kruk, and all those guys having the same bloated up faces?
You will notice that when drug testing comes up around Kruk, he is either silent, or changing the subject.
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
I think Dykstra is still using steroids.
The guy is nuts. And not in an ironic sort of way – more of a ‘delusional, kind of sociopathic’ kind of way, based on his recent business and personal adventures.
As for Kruk…. well, his “power” years seem a little early for the steroid era. Also, he was really fat and had basically no muscle definition or physique at all. I’d be a little shocked if he did any weight training whatsoever.
Then again, if we’re going to assert that Dykstra and (probably) Daulton were using way in 1992-93, then who knows.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Lenny has all but admitted that he took steriods...
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on May 7, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh my God!!!
Alan Trammel is on steroids!!!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I once met Giambi
does that make me guilty by association?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
You bet it does...
And since you admitted to it that’ll be a 50 day no posting suspension for you.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Dusty Baker *definitely* knew.
The other SF players openly joked about Barry’s closed-door, private sessions with his BALCO trainer, where Barry would get “bombarded with gamma rays” to become the incredible hulk.
Dusty is just stupid enough to have plausible deniability…. but when you consider the amount of accusations levied at Bonds during Baker’s Giants tenure, Baker was either willingly oblivious, or absolutely made sure he was never in a place to see what he didn’t want to see.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Did Brett Boone get busted
for using PEDs? I wasn’t aware of that if he was.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 7, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
When you join the late-90's Padres,
…and suddenly put on 20 pounds of muscle at age 31, which then magically disappears after PED testing is instituted and you have to retire…. yeah, that’s enough for me.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
If there's proof, it's the 2004 A-Rod list.
There is, however, quite a bit of circumstantial evidence, including anecdotes from SD teammates who were admitted users, and SEA teammates who were shocked at how much bigger he’d gotten when he arrived in spring training from training all winter in San Diego.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I think Pujols is a safe name
Either the man is the best liar and feels like he can spit in God’s face, or he truly is the Greatest Baseball Player of this Generation.
If you don’t know what I mean, I suggest reading the most recent Sports Illustrated article about him
Funny the way it is, how a kid walks ten miles to school while another is dropping out
because he's so nice and smiles alot.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Because I have a man-crush on him?
I have no evidence to sway you either way. Albert seems like a genuine ambassador for the game of baseball and legitimately cares about its history, records, etc. I don’t know him, never met him, couldn’t tell you why I think this. But character can go a long way—and I think the character of Manny, Barry, and Alex isn’t nearly the same as Albert. Those three are slimy, manipulative, and self-serving.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
People want to believe in Pujols the same way they used to
about A-Rod and Clemens.
Also, he does seem to be a nice guy and as we all know, nice guys NEVER cheat.
by bluekoolaide on May 7, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Hindsight is always 20/20…but I’ve always though A-Rod to be fake and Roger to be an asshole. At least that’s the way their media personalities have shone through. I’m not ignorant enough to think nice guys don’t cheat, but this is more than just a fallacy, I’d like to think.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
+1
For example, I had the misfortune of seeing Roger when I was a kid and waiting for his autograph. No, Roger, I didn’t have $20, and no, my dad isn’t a cheapskate!
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
Sort of OT to this post, but in reply to this comment
My dad was telling me a story about how when he was younger he waited in line for hours for an autograph from Willie Mays. Mays basically told him the same thing snd he didn’t sign anything without money.
I’m not saying that players should always be willing to sign autographs at beck and call, but when you’re signing at an event and a kid doesn’t have money then just do the right thing.
I know now some players are obligated by contract not to sign autographs, I don’t think that was the case back then though….
THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!
rediculous, your a player being essentially paid by the fans
the least you could do is give an autograph.
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
I had an incident when I was in Albuerque, I went to an Iowa cubs game with some friends
at the end of the game, I asked Felix Pie for an autograph…he pointed over to the entrance of the locker room so i ran over there where other kids wanted his autograph as well. Felix was over there giving his phone number to some fat chick and walked into the locker room. He didn’t sign any autographs for those kids or for me. I’m sorry but if you’re in the minors and people come to watch you play, you should be good to the fans. From then on, I’ve hate Felix Pie and hope he’s failed. I know it’s a bit harsh, but he pissed me off.
by aznsensation on May 7, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
to quote Brenley
give it to a kid
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Yes Dear
I Love You, Dear
Whatever You Say, Dear.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
So basically
Its your opinion. Not to stir the pot, but really how can you say as you did earlier that mentioning him as a possible “next in line” is stupid? You jump down everyones throat to suggest him based on a hunch? Particularly when you “have no evidence to sway [us] either way”. I think if he did test positive it would be a dissapointment, but I think we would not be completely shocked.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
You don't know me and I don't know you.
I wasn’t jumping down anyone’s throat, and Mizzou and I have a pretty good relationship, so I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Sheesh
Alright, never mind sorry I wasted your time. I guess at this point your first sentence will remain true. Sorry if my comment came off aggressive, I was really just trying to reason with you. Keep in mind there is another person at the other end of the line here, albeit a person who has no idea what the hell he is talking about.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Yes those others are all asshats
Pujols seems like a good guy, and I’m glad you have found somebody to put faith in. I just can’t bring myself to trust any baseball player.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
Well....
Luis Gonzalez and Nomar were/are very nice guys too and I don’t think anybody would be too surprised to find out that they were juicing.
It’s not just the “bad guys” who cheated during this period. It’s just that it’s more satisfying to see the bad guys get caught.
by bluekoolaide on May 7, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
where
did he put all the extra mass?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
in his pitching brain
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on May 7, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Only steriod he was on
was crossword puzzles and jeopardy. The guy was probly the smartest pitcher we will ever see.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
To repeat a favorite Maddux quote on steriods
" If I did take them I should get a refund"
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 7, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
DLee would surprise me.
Sori and DeRo would surprise me. Eckstien or whatsisname, that third baseman. Walls? Wells?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
D-Lee especially,
because his statistical production is declining as you’d expect from a normal, non-enhanced human being.
If Dale Murphy had managed to sneak a few cycles and extend his career by 3-4 years, he’d have been a 1st ballot HOFer.
But then we got spoiled by everyone in baseball hitting 30 HR well into their 30s.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
David Eckstein would
surprise me.
"This is an environment of welcoming, and you should just get the hell outta here." --Michael Scott
I am interested to know
when this test was taken. Why are guys still trying to sneak through with all the eyes turned on the issue? Seems extra-special stupid to me.
My buddy just summed it up nicely:
i am invested in the success of a team in a sport where the competitive balance is bullshit cause the best players just cheat
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
+1
Very very true, can’t really trust any of them and while I accept it as a part of the sport, it’s still pretty disappointing to see.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Manny's numbers are gonna start declining when he gets back...
he’ll be rusty for sure, but the increased number of tests means Manny won’t be able to take any PED’s for a long time. His age is gonna start impacting him more and more. I wonder if MLB will reveal what he tested positive for.
Even if they can't...
they look pretty smart for holding out to only do a 1-2 year deal.
Proudly waving the Cubbie Blue from Northern Missouri! GO CUBS GO!
Unless you know
Everything that MLB tests for and what he tested positive for, you can’t make that claim as a fact. No one can make that claim. It is entirely possible that what he tested positive for would not have that much impact on his baseball performance. It is also entirely possibly that the MLB testing programming does not cover all the possible designer steriods out there and that he could start taking one of those.
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on May 7, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
A shocking suspension to be sure
ARod and Manny both nailed for cheating. I can’t help but wonder who else they will get. This really just reaffirms my belief that every single one of them is guilty.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
Yeah but
he takes PEDs and still makes 16 mil just this year
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
only if he gets clean
ill bet his testing regiment will be very strict while he is suspended and when he returns.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
then he'll switch to HGH
they don’t even test for that
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Speaking as...
…an Indians fan, I’m sad because I was a big fan of his when he came up and played in Cleveland
…a Cubs fan, I’m glad because he won’t be in the lineup when Dodgers come to Wrigley in May
…a Ballhawk, I’m mad – ironically for the same reason – because he won’t be in the lineup when Dodgers come to Wrigley in May. Waveland will be much quieter without Manny being Manny…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
This is actually really good news....we won't have to hear about Brett Favre for the next few days :-)
I guess it’s Brett Favre’s move now.
he had his
vicadins anyone?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Brett Favre has tested positive for Steroids?!?!?!?!
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on May 7, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
No, but his ego has.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Turn off ESPN
You won’t hear it at all. I dumped everything ESPN related 1.5 years ago. Best move I ever made.
by dr stabbingworth on May 7, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ditto...
There’s so many great news sources that you can actually hear over the screaming from the 4-letter. Very little of substance comes out there that I can’t get just as fast and more concisely elsewhere.
Proudly waving the Cubbie Blue from Northern Missouri! GO CUBS GO!
Anyone think we could be the Dodgers to take Milton back?
We could use some bullpen help.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:23 AM CDT reply actions
I bet Bud Selig pooped his Depends this morning
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
Bud Selig doen't give one greasy shit about this. He'll issue a statement saying something about being "disappointed" and that will be it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
All of a sudden I'm hungry.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Ah yes, the visionary leadership of Bud the Dud Selig
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
.....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 7, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Anyone considered that this
could be a legit mistake and Manny has been clean but got messed up with a bad medication?
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
um...no.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Even if you're right
And I don’t think you are, it’s on the player to know what he’s taking.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
not into conspiracy theories
to make someone who gets paid approx $150k a game look like he was a victim
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Well, hey, anything's possible.
Given how much money is at stake here, it’s hard to believe a mistake like that could be made. One would think Manny’s doctors would have some sort of due diligence process for clearing any medications administered to the patient. But, y’know, mistakes do happen.
Another conspiracy theory could be that one of Manny’s enemies (I’m assuming he has a few) found a way to get some illegal meds into his prescription bottles. Far fetched? Yeah, probably. But it’s not like this thread isn’t going to be 500 comments long by game time tonight.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Im not
trying to suggest a conspiracy any more than I am anything else. I just want to get all the facts before we crucify him as a complete cheat.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Its ok wax
We’re not gonna go all Perry Mason on his ass yet.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Looks like he is
guilty as charged as he is not appealing and its effective immediately. Thats pretty cut and dried in my book.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Oh your're right
Your witness Mr. Burger.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
as was asked above
are players allowed to appeal drug suspensions? Because if they’re not, you can’t take his lack of appeal as an issue.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes he was allowed
to appeal. He waived the right to appeal.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
alright.
well, that’s certainly another nail in the coffin.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
The JC Romero case is precedent
Even though Romero provided reasonable proof that he didn’t knowingly take performance enhancing drugs, the fact is if you get caught with the wrong stuff in your bloodstream it doesn’t matter the reason why.
The window for winning a World Series may have waned.
just ask Jim Miller
anyone remember he failed a test for a banned substance, and he bought it at GNC. With their salaries, if you are not 100% sure it is clean to use, then have it checked out before using it.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
It could be.
After all, JC Romero got bit by bad supplements from GNC. It’s plausible, I suppose, that something similar happened to Manny.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I'd give almost anyone the beneifit of doubt
But this time no…absolutely not.
Anybody who's surprised by this is...
living in a dream world. For years now I’ve thought of Manny as a poster child for juicing.
The only thing that surprises me even a little bit is that they finally nailed him.
Does anybody think Manny will still be selected to the All-Star game?
I’m betting on yes. The game is a joke.
LMAO
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
meh, this isn't a shocker
I could have seen him doing it. whats the specifics?
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
shift of power?
just curious, everyone who’s saying this shifts the power in the NL west… to who? the other teams are horrible.
Gotta be the Giants
who now have the best shot. but its still the Dodgers division to lose. Manny comes back in July if they are near 500 they win the division.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
i agree with you
that the giants still have the best shot, but i don’t see any way that the dodgers lose this division
The Padres entire active roster should be using PED's...
it’s not like it would make much of a difference if they get caught and suspended.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
hank white eats babies
to gain strength. that’s a PED
hahahaha
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Don't think so
Manny really hasn’t been a major factor this year, as much as their starting pitching has. I expect the Dodgers to continue to do well and STILL be in first when Mr. Steroid returns in July.
He just lost 1/3 of what he held out for
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Make that link clickety pop...
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
my fav comment there
If we found out Juan Pierre took steroids
perhaps that would erase all stigma with PEDs :)
by Eric Stephen on May 7, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
OK, time for a little history lesson...
Back when he was with the Cleveland Indians, Manny Ramirez credited his hitting surge to the time he spent in the cage with (then) Joey Belle. He said they would hit low-and-away sliders from a pitching machine all day. I can’t remember if Belle ever got nailed for ‘roids but he certainly fit the profile (down to the corked bat), so my suspicions began then. Everyone seems to forget that Ken Caminiti fingered half of the league on his death bed. There is no reason to not assume that almost every one of these power hitters is a user. The steroid testing policy is a joke, much like the one in place for pro wrestlers. I’ve just accepted it and moved on. It’s a different game. These guys, Sosa et all, are just doing their job and we should just enjoy the entertainment they’re providing.
How is suspending
one of the game’s biggest stars for 50 games a joke?
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Because it's so easy to avoid detection.
Ask A-rod.
by Jerry Mumphrey on May 7, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I can agree that
its easy enough to avoid detection. But they did catch Manny, and he has up until this point not been caught (or not used I wont pass judgement). You would think that he would do some research and find out how not to get caught.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
yes he did
in a confidential test in 2003 that what all the controversy is about
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Not to defend his Budness
But it does gall me that baseball gets no credit for putting in a tough policy. Yes, it was probably too late, but it certainly isn’t too little
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Tough punishment, maybe. Not particularly tough enforcement though.
In fact, if there were better testing in place I’ll bet that jerk Zambrano never tries to beat out that bunt with all his ’roid rage causing him to irresponsibly pull his hammy!
by Jerry Mumphrey on May 7, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
would Lilly's blood
be a PED
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
It is the main PED that MLB worries about
Which is why Ted has decided he doesn’t bleed.
Hey the Cubs are good again! This will be a good test of a sig jinx.
by nji232 on May 7, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If I kill Ted Lilly
Do I become him?
by dr stabbingworth on May 7, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
There can be only one.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Highlander!
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely no one is above suspicion...
Let’s consider for a moment that it is entirely possible that MLB testing policies are behind the curve of designer steriod developments. If they are constantly chasing designer steriods, it is entirely possible a player could be on PEDs his entire career and never get caught.
Let’s also remember there is no accepted MLB test for HGH. As long as a player does not get caught buying it/using it, he is in the clear
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
Those 3 homeruns in 4 games including a GS...
I don’t know seems a little fishy to me.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
if he no longer double clutches, then I wonder
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
You are
exactly correct. However, the consequences for getting caught are high and enforced pretty well. I cannot imagine that these guys really see it as being worth the risk.
Also its still debatable whether HGH actually improves performance or not.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I think we would
be surprised at what “smart” people would do to make money…
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on May 7, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair
but ManRam just lost 8 million in this gamble.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
He'll be hitting up his teammates for lunch money i'm sure.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
but still makes 16 mil even with the suspension
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
does Boras lose any of his spiff?
I personally would not be surprised if Boras was involved in the PEDs at some point with his clients
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Oh come on! By your standard we would need a guinea pig to play and record data before and after using.
Let’s just use Barry Bonds with his Pittsburg/San Fransisco splits as the defacto evidence.
by Jerry Mumphrey on May 7, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
HGH and, say, depotestosterone are 2 different arguements
Barry is suspected of using both, among many other things. It’s not effective to try and isolate the effects of one substance using Barry Bonds or the backs of baseball cards.
There have not been clinical studies that have isolated the athletic effects of human growth hormone. Ethics, blah blah blah. And, it’s not likely that we’ll see a test for it anytime soon. The physiological processes that trigger natural HGH production aren’t very well understood, nor are baseline readings. The medical community has a hard time conclusively agreeing on HGH tests in adults and children in the general population, let alone people who make millions of dollars trying to cheat tests.
Obviously, there are people that anecdotally believe that it is beneficial and abuse it.
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on May 7, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
No that's not my standard but don't let that stop your silly misplaced outrage
There’s a lot of evidence to the contrary – multiple studies have show that HGH use does nothing to enhance athletic performance in healthy adults.
There are no studies that show it does.
But hey if you’d rather continue to perpetuate the silly myth that it helps you don’t let me stop you.
Some comments from Manny
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
"Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me," Ramirez said in a statement issued by the players’ union.
"Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons."
Hmmmm.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, yahoo has another story
confirming what Manny said. I posted a link below.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
as i said before
when making that much money, if you have .0000001% doubt that the med, vitamin, etc is clean, get it tested and verifuy with the league that it is clean. not exactly a hard thing to do
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Fully agreed
its the players responsibility to make sure its a legit substance that he is taking.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I agree
but let’s not pretend that there’s no difference between taking a pill with undocumented ingredients and deliberately juicing.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
no pretending here.
I know they are very different. However in the eyes of MLB they carry the same weight. to me there is a big diff b/n what Romero was accused of and what Palmeiro was accused of. They were both guilty of using steroids. Romero was neglect and Palmeiro was with intent. Big difference to me.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
that's exactly right.
:)
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
he's innocent...
It was just a prescription for hair growth formula
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I hope thats a joke
cuz that is pretty funny…
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
"I've been advised not to comment further."
yeah just a joke
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Palmeiro
I actually believed him when he said he didn’t take steroids before Congress. I was a fan of his because he played for both Mississippi State and the Cubs. I was very disappointed when he came up with that vitamin B story with Tejada. The indoor baseball training facility down in Starkville is named after him, but I don’t think much of Palmeiro now.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I was a fan
of his when he was with the Rangers and O’s. Loved watching and listening to him play. It was a sad day when I found out he was a user, I wanted to believe the Tejada story, but it just did not add up.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Does that mean O.J. was on steroids too?
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on May 7, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Only his hair appears to be on steroids in that photo.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Hairoids?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
With the first offense, MLB suspends you for 50 games...
A-Rod was caught, is he suspended for 50 games? Or does being on the DL for any amount of time count towards those 50 games?
by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 7, 2009 12:04 PM CDT reply actions
His test was during the 2003 season I believe...
and it wasn’t against the rules then so I don’t believe he can be suspended.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Although, there are some who think
his current injury is a psuedo suspension of sorts. These people are conspiracy theorists, of course.
We don't what he tested positive for yet
I hope its not steriods myself. There are other things like amphedimenes from an ADHD med or something. Lets let the whole story play out
not steroids, but noone knows the substance yet
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
if it was
ADHD med and his doc perscribed it then he would not have been suspended.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
eitherway, this completely destroys the Dodgers for the next two months
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
What does this do
to the Mannywood seats?
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
How about dreds with syringes at the ends?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Not a steroid or HGH
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Viagra
isn’t banned, is it?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
If it's not a steroid or HGH
then why suspend him? I understand whatever it was is banned from baseball, but if it doesn’t help a player in anyway, then I don’t think it’s fair to suspend someone.
You might as well suspend someone for taking Tylenol then.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 7, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
if its not a steriod or HGH
then it should be a lighter suspension. The only answer is a Stimulant as far as I can tell.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Man im not sure,
this has to hurt his chances based on what’s happened to Mac, but only time will tell.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Yea I still think so...
Same as Bonds and probably A-Rod (when he’s done playing). It was the era in which they happened to play even though it was a bad decision by all involved. I think they are more of a product of their times.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
However, Bonds has not been proven
It’s unfair to keep someone out of HOF without proof of cheating. Mere speculation, IMO, shouldn’t keep someone out of the HOF.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 7, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's be realistic...
All that speculation comes from somewhere, and just use the eye test. No way a guy gets that big that fast without some help.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok, point taken gridiron
but eyes alone dont warrant guilty
by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 7, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea true...
That’s why I still think he belongs in the HOF and he should be able to keep his records, I just won’t ever believe that he wasn’t juicing or taking some kind of PEDs.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
No one said he
was not dirty. They just said there has been no proof of him being on steroids. Sure its obvious, but there is no concrete evidence.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
A few thoughts
First off, I want to parse what Manny said here:
I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons."
OK, but how many tests has he taken and failed? Why not come out and say that he’s never used steroids, HGH and other illegal performance enhancers over his entire career?
As for the excuse that he just visited a physician who prescribed something for a personal problem… hmm… we’ve seen that there are a lot of quack physicians out there who will prescribe anything for athletes. John Kruk made a great point on ESPN… get the physican out here, show us what you used, and show us conclusive blood tests that this is all that you used.
I am of two minds on a bigger issue here. First is that MLB showed today what a bunch of crap the Arod conspiracy is. MLB showed today that they are not afraid to suspend anyone. So lets stop with the “MLB won’t suspend the superstar” stuff. However, the other side of this is that I still believe MLB is part of the problem and we still have no clue how many guys are using HGH. It is still not being tested for and having read “Game of Shadows”, the guys making the banned substances are so far ahead of the testers.
Why not come out and say that he’s never used steroids
true or lie, it is likely he has been told by MLBPA, Boras and.or an attorney to shut up until……..
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Agree on
the testing is way behind the steriod makers. But there is no real way to keep up. With HGH its pretty impractical to test for unless they are going to switch to blood and hair samples. some guys may have real problems with this.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I'm assuming a couple things
1) that when he said he’d taken about 15 drug tests and passed the implication was that he had not failed any.
2) Somewhere down the line he will trot out the medical reports to show exactly what the substance was.
So far all I’ve seen is everyone throwing Manny under the bus.
If what he says is true , That these were prescribed and he found after the test that he had screwed up by not checking whether they were banned or not.
And- this is a very important and – he is taking full responsibility for the isssue then it seems to me that he is acting in a very stand-up and honest manner
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
I agree
There is little (to no) evidence that he used prior to this (except for his numbers and a Canseco allegation). I do not want to throw Manny under the bus, he is a great ball player.
Sounds like he made a mistake. Sounds like he was clean before this. I wish I could leave it there. This is one place where unsealing the 2003 test would shed a lot of light into what is going on. (I am very much not in favor of this in the general case).
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
And it sounds like he is admitting his mistake
and taking the punishment because it is the right thing to do
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
If I recall correctly, he said he had 15 drug test over 5 years
that’s approximately three tests a year which mean about every four months. How hard is it for a player who was just given a drug test to use whatever PED he wanted for two months, and then stop for another two? He’d get tested and probably come up clean, but still getting the advantages of drugs. It seems to me that MLB’s drug test is easy to get around if they know the system. I want to see drug tests every other week, only then will I be able to trust MLB’s drug policy.
by aznsensation on May 7, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
do they test them year round
or just during the season?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
year round
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
he's taking responsibility...
… for the bare minimum. This is what every athlete has done so far… Andy Pettitte, Brian Roberts, etc… anyone who confesses say that they made a one time mistake or just did it over a short period of time, but the rest of their career is clean. Every believes them and all is good again. Sorry, but I’m not buying it.
Manny may be clean or may have made a mistake but now the onus is on him. He has to prove that he is being honest. Your assumption is exactly what he wants, people believing his carefully crafted and well worded statements where he’s not lying.
What can I say
I like to believe in people and I like to put a positive spin on life
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
Hey
im a guy who has a very positive spin on life for the most part.
I just think that its very concerning that one of the games most prestigeous power hitters tested positive for a banned substance. You would think this guy would pay someone to check everything he puts in his mouth.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I'd take that job....wink wink.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
ok...
… and I don’t believe that my point of view says anything about my spin on life. I’ve seen this song and dance played out far too often so I’m done believing these guys. Sports, politics etc has all become mastery of wording and PR. Its all about damage control. I don’t believe this is about one’s view on life, positive or negative.
Believe me Dan
I wasn’t trying to imply anything negative about you or your views. I was just pointing out my own personality flaws
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
understood
thanks for clarifying…
unfortunately for Manny it looks like he was using prescribed a female fertility drug that was a major part of Barry Bond’s drug cycle.
link?
FEMALE fertility drug? Was he trying to ovulate out of cycle?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe he was trying to hit for the cycle...
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
They can't all be gems, folks
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 7, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
That would be most impressive.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I can't wait to see how all this plays out
Can you imagine Manny standing in front of the national tv audience with tears in his eyes saying " it’s all because my girlfiends fault she kept wanting more and more of Manny"
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
medical condition, maybe ...ED?
please insert your own joke here
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
If it's something that is minor
then why wouldn’t Manny appeal?
by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 7, 2009 12:25 PM CDT reply actions
I think that's part of the reason it's so hard to believe him...
If he 100% knows that he wasn’t taking PEDs then why wouldn’t he appeal. Sound like some spin control to me…
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
appealing would prolong when he would able to come back....they want manny back in time for the playoffs
by aznsensation on May 7, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
They have well over 100 games left...
And an appeal wouldn’t take 50 games to be resolved.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I can agree with that reasoning
but if he really was innocent would he not want to make sure he cleared his name?
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
hah! there may not be playoffs for the Dodgers after this
this bascially does to us what Lee did in 06. You take away your best hitter on the team by far and he are reduced to crap
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
except the Dodgers play
in the NL worst
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
the Diamondbacks and Giants are loving this
if the Gints could get it going, they have a dominating rotation that could threaten to take the NL West crown
Movement to make Jeff Samardzija our closer!
Makes you wonder...
…if pushing down the Red Sox trainer (I believe) story was a roid rage?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I'm sorry I'm late to this party
My a-hole Dodgers fan friend just told me “I guarantee you several of your Cubs are juiced too.” A-hole.
This is too bad and I’m sorry for the game I love.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
If that's true, Bradley needs to use better stuff then.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Get him some of what Manny's using!
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on May 7, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
dude, we toldja once
GET ANOTHER FRIEND
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
by cubnational on May 12, 2009 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
On a side note, my first post with this many comments :)
I know it’s a pretty big issue and it’s not like I had to come up with some kind of clever discussion, still pretty cool to see though :)
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 12:32 PM CDT reply actions
awe dude!!!!
I saw this headline on CBSSports.com and about crapped myself. I offered a trade last night on my fantasy team (Soto and Alexei Ramirez for Theriot and Manny). Thought I was getting a super deal…guess not. He accepted the trade this morning and the news broke on the suspension a little over an hour ago. I am at the mercy of the “4 objection” rule in the league now. If not, I can’t wait until the first week of July when I can finally use him……….and I’m in dead last. :^(
timing is everything
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Wow, the guy who took that
trade is a dildo
by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 7, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I know one kitty who is
sleeping with MOMMY tonight!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Niiiiice
Jackie likes the smell of cut grass, he used to play ball on Saturdays, Playin in the sun...
hahahahhah
you need verizon’s espn vcast. :-)
by aznsensation on May 7, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually Verizon's deal with ESPN is lame.
It’s a nice app, but you can’t do anything on there that you can’t access via the ESPN mobile site (including fantasy baseball). I learnd that after I switched from Verizon to AT&T.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
i was joking...i've never had verizon before, but the commercials are kinda funny
by aznsensation on May 7, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree. My girlfriend doesn't get why I think they're funny.
Silly girls….
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
LMAO
jump or juice
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Wait, maybe he does have some problems south of the border...
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-ramirezsuspension050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
According to this the medication was some kind of sexual enhancer. And the plot thickens…
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 12:52 PM CDT reply actions
if that's true then i have one thing to say....hahahhahahaaha!!!
he’s losing 8 million dollars because of a sexual enhancer. What a complete dumbass, no wonder he didn’t want to appeal or release the info. How hard is it to get the medication checked by mlb first.
by aznsensation on May 7, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
not hard
they have a hotline for this kind of thing.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I think not being hard was more the problem
than the solution.
Ewww.
Jackie likes the smell of cut grass, he used to play ball on Saturdays, Playin in the sun...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
ok
so seriously… how would this medication affect his play? Viagra’s not banned. I wonder what this stuff does…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
probably
boosts testosterone.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
good point.
Oh, Manny.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I call shenanigans
and wouldn’t be surprised if this is being used as a diversion for a bigger, more serious issue. But that’s pure speculation and have no proof.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Can't
deny that this is what it smells like. However, we only see what is presented to us and should draw our initial opinions from the facts at hand rather than too much conjecture
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
+69
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Yea that would be my guess too...
Still pretty damn funny regardless
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Did anyone see Crash?
“you can admit to an embarassing personal problem or you can [admit to taking steroids]”
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Got me thinking of a Simpsons episode
the one where Principal Skinner has to admit he’s a virgin. So maybe, juuuust maybe, if Manny admits to being impotent to a certain degree has to add to his “credibility.”
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
I think
by definition that a sexual enhancer would be human GROWTH hormone
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
sexual enhancer
(technically) is a PED, right?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I love it
When you scroll down the article one of the sponsoring links is for HGH
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
That
is kind of hilarious
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
That's Yahoo! targeted advertising for ya
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Gotta love
datamining at work
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
He had that leg injury in spring training, and we knew he had a limp
What we didn’t know was that it was the third leg that was limp.
Jackie likes the smell of cut grass, he used to play ball on Saturdays, Playin in the sun...
Manny's drug...
… was a female fertility drug. This is according to Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, who wrote Game of Shadows. This is a drug that steroid users use as part of their steroid cycle as they get off of their cycle. It spurs normal testosterone production. Barry Bonds frequently used the female fertility drug Clomid as part of his steroid cycle.
Oh my lord...
This just keeps getting worse and worse and yet I can’t help but laugh.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
susbtance- HCG
common use for fertility, but also when a person is coming off a steroid cycle it helps boost testosterone
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
ESPN saying
its a drug commonly used for female fertility issues and used to hide steriods when you come off a steriod cycle.
No link. They just said it on ESPNEWS.
and the reward to happiest player goes to..
Arod
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Yes it was FEMALE fertility drug.
so unless Manny has a uterus he had not business taking it.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
Adds credence to my "shenanigans" theory
… just sayin’…
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
I bet he was betting the drug itself wouldn't come out
otherwise why would you use the “i was taking it for a medical issue the dr said wouldn’t test positive under MLB”
can he
REALLY think that?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
After what we've seen from Manny over the years
he doesn’t strike me as overly bright.
Hard to tell, honestly.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 7, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
On that note
it’s time to get back to work,
See ya’ll later
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
Yea this was fun while it lasted...
But I have a final at 5 and I’m not exactly sure what it’s on so I should probably get on that.
Peace
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
It's original intention yes
but some drugs have multiple uses. This just so happens to boost testosterone levels which just so happens provides a bit of a cover for steroid use.
Just like Viagra was intended to treat angina…look how it was marketed when the first test trials “illustrated” something different.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Actually Bud Light is addicted to some really good
“stuff” and in order to pay off his habit, MLB is going to suspend many of the top earners.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Whatever
I gave up on the sport being credible a long time ago. I don’t really care who gets suspended anymore.
So what happens to the money here? Do the Dodgers just get to keep it and not pay his salary for 50 games… therefore giving them more money to spend on their roster? Or does it go to MLB, a charity, what?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
Dodgers should keep it.
There is no fine he just does not get paid
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
it should be donated to a charity
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
LOL
What’s his next quote? “I was trying to see if I could be the male octo-mom”?
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
I just had a bad vision
of Manny singing “More than a Woman to Me”
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I may get flamed for this...
But aren’t they all on steroids? I just don’t really care anymore. I assume all professional athletes are on PEDs now- that’s just the new reality. I’m pleased when any of them get caught as it blows their cover. But do you honestly believe that any of today’s standouts aren’t on PEDs? To think otherwise, to me, is just denial. This is the new reality, folks- get over it.
color me naive
but I don’t think everyone is on a PED. Just some really big names lately.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
innocent
until proven guilty.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Innocent until you're caught taking a woman's fertility drug...
Man, how the times have changed.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
as a note
the drug does stimulate testosterone production which could actually impact sexual performance. I realize it is used in a steriod cycle, but it could also be an honest mistake. (However doubtful that could be).
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Yea i know
just making a funny :)
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I know
its hilarious that it was a women’s fertility drug and also happens to be a steroid cycle drug. Makes it hard to believe he is clean.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
Yup
Unless he’s trying to increase his chance of having twins or ovulating out of cycle there’s probably no need for him to be taking that.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
If he needed help
I am sure he could have taken Viagra not a female fertility drug basically used to avoid being caught taking male steroids.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 7, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah that is a head
scratcher, when ED drugs are widely available why are you taking something weird.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
maybe
his issue isn’t ED.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats true
sounds like drive was the problem. I mean he could just have a naturally low level of testosterone or something.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
no.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Umm, no...I don't believe they are all on steroids
C’mon man, that’s kind of judgemental and ridiculous
by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 7, 2009 2:29 PM CDT reply actions
I knew you'd all say that
But c’mon, why would I think otherwise? When name after name gets thrown out there – eventually you just start to expect it.
And I don’t mean that as judgmentalism- I don’t blame em. If you could make $100 million by taking steroids, wouldn’t you? I would, and I’m not afraid to admit it. Combine that fact with them being so easy to obtain, and I would assume most are on the juice. I could be wrong, but I assume on most unless I have reason to believe otherwise, not the other way around. Don’t blame me- blame the athletes who have been caught who have cast suspicion on them all.
how very
Joe McCarthy of you. Have you ever, or have you ever been associated with, steroid users?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
You're assuming though
that’s not really fair. Not all ballplayers are making $100 million. They’re are a lot of guys in baseball, even on the Cubs, that you can look at and just tell they aren’t on steroids.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on May 7, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I gave up on the eye test
when the first batch of positive tests rolled in. There were small speedsters and lanky pitchers on that list.
Derrek Lee is good.
by DGU on May 7, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
ok in 2003
approximately 100 out of 900 players tested positive. If you figure about that same number are still using that’s still only 1/9th of all players. We don’t know who they were so why incriminate everyone. Also if you use the reply function it helps a lot.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
But isn't it only the stupid ones who get caught?
I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know the details of steroid testing, but my understanding is that with enough foresight, you shouldn’t get caught. I know for a fact that there’s no test for HGH that’s reliable at the moment, so why on earth would I not expect that many of our heroes wouldn’t be on it? With all that money on the line? When a soft tosser like Paul Byrd gets caught, jeez, who isn’t on it? C’mon, anything less is being naive in my book. I guess that is unfair to those who aren’t using, but they should be the ones sticking for themselves on that basis- why should I be faulted? I didn’ t use the stuff.
I guess I shouldn’t say “all are on it”- clearly a guy like Theriot is not- but I assume PED use is far more widespread than just limited to the few who’ve been caught. And certainly not golfers- but are they really athletes anyway?
who was the pitcher
who turned out his pockets on national television, only to be caught when a piece of sandpaper fell out? Was that Phil Neikro? I can’t remember.
Bill Clinton got caught. He’s hardly stupid. (No political rants please.)
The guilt of one is not the guilt of many.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea but even if they can't test for HGH yet
why take it when they could come up with a viable test tomorrow or next week. Doesn’t make sense to ruin your reputation and be suspended and lose a large portion of the money that you were taking the PEDs to get in the first place. I refuse to do that because it’s not fair to the vast majority of athletes and I’m willing to go one by one as they catch them rather than just drown the whole lot.
And btw I would definitely say that someone like Tiger is a pretty damn good athlete.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
ok, but
104 people in MLB got caught, that includes A-Rod. Wouldn’t you think a guy making A-Rod’s money would say hey I might want to think about taking something that is undetectable.
Also, people keep talking about HGH like it actually works. There is no evidence (again no evidence) that HGH actually improves performance in adults. yes there have been some wierd folks in the steroid annals, but to make a broad sweeping generalization is not only silly but also incriminates people you have no evidence against which kind of defies the entire premise of the American legal system.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
More importantly why would we care?
I know for a fact that there’s no test for HGH that’s reliable at the moment, so why on earth would I not expect that many of our heroes wouldn’t be on it?
If it doesn’t help you play baseball, and there’s no evidence it does, why would we care if they’re on HGH?
I guess I shouldn’t say "all are on it"- clearly a guy like Theriot is not- but I assume PED use is far more widespread than just limited to the few who’ve been caught. And certainly not golfers- but are they really athletes anyway?
Why do you say that? Did Rafael Betancourt look like a steroid user? Did you totally call that one? Or maybe he’s on stimulants? Who’s to say those don’t help you just as much as steroids?
PED’s don’t always mean giant muscles….
Lance Armstrong agrees with you
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I don't actually believe that you think that
but rather you’re just doing it for the sake of starting another debate. But at any rate that is ridiculous and also quite unfair to the large percentage of players who are clean and get cast in the same light as the PED users.
Also it’s kinda silly to say all professional athletes because I highly doubt NBA players are taking steroids, and golfers/hockey players/tennis players/etc wouldn’t see much benefit from PED use.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
too bad Fred McGriff was clean
he could have topped 500 with some “help”
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Just reading back through this thread and a late comment.
Who says Fred was clean and didn’t just peter out short of 500 while juiced?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
good points guys
Judgmental I may seem- but hey, this ain’t the legal system, this is the court of public opinion. With so many users, I don’t owe my trust to any of these guys. I’d like to see some in house outrage on this issue among current non-users, but strangely, there’s none (I know, blame the union.) I hope none of our Cubbies get caught, that’s all. Manny? couldn’t happen to a nicer guy. I can’t stand him.
gotta run.
this is the court of public opinion.
Nice. So, really what they did or didn’t do doesn’t really matter. All that matters is that you THINK they did something wrong.
May you never end up in court with such a jury.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
thats exactly the point
“Innocent until proven guilty” and “beyond a reasonable doubt” are standards we apply in a courtroom because of the consequences that flow from a conviction.
Outside the courtroom, where the consequence is that “reedjohnson” posting on a blog holds a poor view of you, no one is entitled to a benefit of the doubt or presumption of innocence. If he’s convinced they’re all guilty, so be it, he can think that and express that opinion here.
by Orval Overall on May 7, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
and other people
can condemn him for it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 7, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Ken Caminiti said about HALF of MLB players used. That was shortly before he died.
I think that’s accurate.
by Jerry Mumphrey on May 7, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I had Manny on my fantasy team. What do I do? repace him with Luke Scott or do you think he is juicin’ too?
when i read this
i went to my fantasy league site right away to see if pierre is available. my offense is killing it, except for SBs. someone else had beat me to the punch!
I used to be "Jones," but I got swooped on the redesign.
Something else to ponder...
I’ve been contemplating why he would just accept the punishment without putting up more of a fight. This is Manny and Scott Boras and the MLBPA we’re talking about. There’s no way they don’t fight this until he’s been out of the league for 5 years and already in the hall of fame… unless either the truth is way worse than serving a suspension that just speculates PED usage instead of outright acknowledges it… or it’s way more embarrassing.
If they had him outright on a steroid, MLB wouldn’t let him deny it. They would not allow him to lie to people, if they had definitive proof… and they’re dying to prove to congress and the world that they can catch one of their superstars in the act (admittedly anecdotal, but it’s true).
It’s not a stretch to my imagination to think in Manny’s screwed up head it would be better to take a 50-game suspension, or even risk a 50-game suspension by not clearing a substance with MLB first, than admit he has a male functional problem.
Even this train of thought doesn’t make me think he wasn’t on steroids. I think they’re all on steroids unless they prove otherwise… and since none of them want to step up and volunteer their proof, my roundabout reasoning means they’re all using… something… and yes that does significantly reduce my enjoyment of professional athletics. I find it more interesting to think about what athletes do off the field than care about the numbers they put up on it or whether they get into the hall of fame.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
Here is the problem
if he fights this particular part then they can probably investigate why he had an artificially elevated testosterone level. They chose not to investigate this as it would not further his penalty.
Also to your last paragraph. This is actually a much more complicated situation than you think. The union has controlled much of what has been done about steroids. MLB is bound by the collective bargaining agreement. Even the testing they have now was only brought about by renegotiation of that agreement.
A single player, or small group of players volunteering for more testing would be flying in the face of the union and would not happen.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
manny
manny pretty much has gotten his way his whole career.welcome to the real world.
What can baseball do to supplement their drug testing
Common sense tells us that Baseball’s drug testing policy is always going to be behind the curve. There is always going to be some drug that they are not testing for yet because they don’t know about it or a test does not exist for it. Short of getting caught buying it or being associated with a tainted chemist or doctor, there is probably always going to be somebody using.
Using Manny as an example and assuming he really did take his drug to enhance his on the field performance, he took a 7 million dollar gamble to make 38 million (if you include his player option for next year). Even if he is shamed from the game, wilts to an average player after this 50 game suspension, and never takes another PED, he is still going to make 38 mil. That is a gamble that I am afraid a lot of people would take.
Should Baseball and GMs consider changes to how they do contracts? Would threats of losing signficant money deter even more players from PEDs? Should their be PED clauses in contracts? Would such a clause really work? Would a zero tolerance policy and a contract void work? Would a salary reduction to Major League Min for the life of the contract with a team option to void the contract work?
Do Owners/GMs really care or is filling seats/winning baseball games by any means necessary more important? Do writers/sports broadcasters really care? They have sold a lot of print and tape on this issue and will continue to do so.
To me, stiffing the penalties/attacking the players finances would seem to be the next logical step in the evolution of Baseball’s drug testing policy.
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
Repairing incentives
PED clauses in contracts could go a long way towards fixing incentives for players, but it will never happen because it runs contrary to the owners’ incentives. An owner/GM may say, “Oh, no, I’m stuck with Manny’s contract for next year”, but the fact is that the owner wants Manny on the field because it sells tickets and wins games. Look at San Francisco — you’ll have a hard time convincing me that Barry Bonds’ presence during the time he was widely believed to be a steroid user hurt ticket sales there. The fans in that city supported Bonds all the way.
The short-term interests of players (as a collective unit, as the apparently large contingent of juicers has plenty of goals in common with the union leaders) and owners (independently) are very similar. They’ll pay lip service to the idea of keeping the game clean while taking advantage of them whenever they can. Only a group focused on the long-term interests of game will protect those interests by imposing a tough doping policy on everyone. Owners, acting collectively (through the commissioner’s office), seem to me the most likely group. I could also imagine a radical anti-doping group of players coming forward and pushing an agenda like that, but I can only imagine it in the abstract — I don’t think it’s likely at all (see where the efforts of Frank Thomas went while he worked within the union throughout his career — it would have to be a group willing to challenge the power structure of the union).
It will
be hard to get the owners involved against steroids. The stigma is harsh, but attendance has been up in spite of it. Offense sells tickets. This is the mantra that every sport seems to be using when they write new rules and sell player images. In foot ball its the quarter back. In hockey its the exciting young goal scorers, in basketball its guys like Koby and LeBron (although they both play great defense).
Offense sells tickets and steroids provide offense. It will be hard to get the owners to agree on and enforce a truly serious crackdown because it will have an effect on offense.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
if MLB
makes a rule that during a suspension the player CANNOT be replaced on the roster, that will help. Would only take one or two 13 inning games with a 24 man roster to make the managers crazy and have them start to police their own. In case that is not reason enough, they include that any player suspended during the season is not eligible for post season play, and is not eligible for any post season awards OR bonus’
I believe that the salary that the player is losing from the suspension should be given to a charity, IIRC the owner does not pay that salary, so its a “gain” so to speak for the owner.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Not a bad idea
punish the whole team for one guy’s abuse. It would certainly be pretty effective. I think that taking away post season eligibility would be pretty effective.
However, you would have to get the players and owners to agree and I do not think that they will do it. No player’s association is going to agree to allow players to miss the playoffs or be ineligible for post season awards. And no owner is going to agree to have potentially his biggest name out for the playoffs.
Oriole by nurture. Cub by marriage.
I was not saying it would pass
just that it would be a good way to promote policing their own. A player who cheats this season should not be allowed to gain a bonus or post season admiration during that same season. The caught player is guilty of cheating the (presumed) clean players (and those who have not been busted?), but more importantly cheating the fans of the other 29 teams. Not to mention it is a class 2 felony narcotic (PEDs are a higher classification of a federal offense than cocaine)
(IMO) I am sure that the players, managers, coaches, trainers, agents, and owners know who is and who isnt using, so holding them all responsible is what should take place.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
for those listenign to Boers and Berstein on 670 the zone
I emailed my post here and they just now read it
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Exactly my point.
Owners, individually, won’t do it. “MLB rules” come from the commissioner’s office, which represents the owners working collectively; that’s where the doping enforcement push has always come from and will continue to come from. Individually the owners are all working against eachother for short-term advantage, where as a collective body, through the commissioner’s office, they (sometimes) work together for (somewhat) longer-term interests.
The point of my post was that individual player contracts are never going to have harsh doping enforcement in them because it’s not directly beneficial to either signing party in the short-run.
Manny
I’m tired of Many being Manny. I wouldn’t want him or A-Rod on my team
question
with most pro sport contracts having a Good Samaritanclause in them, could the Dodgers void the contract with Manny?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Whether they could or not...
… it’s not in their interest to. It’s in their interest to feign shock, pay lip service to the ideal of keeping the game clean and monitoring him in the future, and get him back hitting home runs as soon as possible. When Manny comes back he’ll put asses in seats and help the Dodgers get to the playoffs, which will make them even more money.
No individual team will take harsher action than the MLB rules require against its own doping players. Some individual players might be willing to subject themselves to extra testing or provide extra transparency, if they think their reputations are unfairly tainted by the scandal, but I don’t think the union allows that. For severe action to be even proposed the league (that is, the collective body of owners) has to think its credibility is at such risk that fans are going to walk out in droves. For it to succeed those players that want tough testing and consequences for it have to take over the union.
For all the grandstanding in the media, the one way the media could have an effect would be to refuse to cover baseball. For all the fans’ passionate pleas for a clean game, the one thing they can do that would have an effect would be to stop watching (and calling in to shows, and commenting on blogs) entirely. A genuine show of disillusionment is what it takes. Fans’ aggregate behavior is doing a pretty good job of convincing everyone in baseball that there is no cost to running a dirty game.
you made a great post
which skipped over what i was asking. No one will argue with what you said, as we all know this.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I think
he’d likely sue.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 8, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
but would he be able to win the lawsuit
when he breached it with the Good Samaritan clause they usually have. How could he go before the judge and make a case for a company (in this case a team) for letting him go for violating the code of conduct in the contract signed, not to mention doing so by using an illegal narcotic?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Restarting this a few days late, but...
… a ton more details, including how the union was required to work AGAINST Manny, and how he actually was caught with two separate substances in his blood.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4159870
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Marlins agree to unretire No. 5 for Logan Morrison, who will honor his father’s favorite player
- Weatherman Derek Holland does Dallas TV
- Ask Alex: Will Julio Teheran or Matt Moore win rookie of the year?
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
